She's going to die... and I don't care - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Cynthetiq · 12-01-2005, 12:04 AM

I just got a call from the Philippines from an uncle letting me know that my paternal grandmother may not make it through the night. Now mind you all, there is camp within the family that are drama creators. They live and breathe it. While grandma is in the hospital, no doctor has stated that she's not going to make it through the night, no doctor has stated that she's going to make it through the night. They made this judgement on their own based on few facts and no one in that section of the family knows enough about medicine to put the facts together to come up with any real meaning.

She's gone from having fallen down to semi incoherent, not eating to being force fed with tubes, to permenent stomach peg to facilitate feeding. The first call I got tonight was that her blood pressure has fallen and that she doesn't look like she'll make it. Further information comes from another aunt who's stated that her blood pressure has dropped, she's got fluid in the lungs, and she's on a 1ml morphine drip. All this information comes in bits and pieces, several phone conversations from other family members etc. She's in the hospital in Palo Alto, CA and will probably have services around there.

As she's been deteriorating for the past few weeks, I've been wrestling with some ideas that are in direct conflict with my own desires. As an Asian, I feel some duty to the family especially in times of crisis. As an American, I really don't give a damn about this woman. Let me explain, and then please let me know if you agree or disagree. My best friend made me stop at three reasons, I'll give you those three to read and decide for yourself. There are many many more than three throughout my life.

Grandma is a renowned chef and baker. People would come from miles around to buy her baked goods, so when she came to America I recall a time staying with her and her baking ensaymada, a filipino sweet bread. As a child it was one of my favorite snacks and I can recall her sitting making these by the dozens and asking her for one and always being denied. "Hijo, these are for my customers," was always the reply. She never made a batch for me that I can recall. This is something that I've always carried since I was 5-6 years old, and have always taken umbrage at her never making any for me.

When my sister was born I was six years old in the mid 70s, a time when it was common for new mothers to stay in the hospital for at least three days. The day after she was born I wrote a two sentence letter to my mom stating that I wish I could come and see the baby but I know that the hospital will not allow such a youngster into the ward. (I recently gave this letter to my brother in law who framed it for my sister as a birthday present.) My grandmother lived 1/2 mile from the hospital. My grandmother never came to the hospital to see my sister. She said she was too busy for some reason that I cannot truly recall, I believe it was because she had some prepaid ceramics class that she could not miss. I have always taken umbrage towards her for this. To me this was unforgivable and even more underlined as other grandchildren were born she visited them in the hospital.

When my sister married, grandma was invited. She didn't have to do anything as other family members were going to attend and she had a ride, and a place to stay in Las Vegas. She did not RSVP and did not attend the wedding. She did however RSVP to the bridal showers in her area, and never attended. She never even acknowledged missing any events, no well wishes, nothing. Now, you may ask yourself well this was your sister, what about you? Well, I didn't tell many people in the family that Skogafoss and I go to married. In fact almost 4 years later people are still coming up to me in the family saying, "I didn't know you got married!"

I called my best friend to speak with him as I felt I needed some clarity on how I felt about this subject. It was at this point that my best friend said, "Enough, you don't owe this lady anything."

Now if someone else posted this, I'd probably be there saying, "Suck it up, pay your last respects, if you can see her in the hospital see her." But I honestly have no last respects, I don't think I've ever had any inkling of respect for this woman. She has never written or called for birthdays or holidays, yet other grandkids she does.

What's your opinion?

leftyderek · 12-01-2005, 12:23 AM

Being an Asian myself I understand the 'family' concern of yours. But then if I were you I would not attend the funeral- I mean, I would never show fake respects to anyone. And I don't see anything wrong being absent from the funeral, since you have some rather understandable reasons. I might sound rather cold-blooded but no, I would not go to the funeral.

But following your judgements and feelings is the most important. Don't let social norms or family pressure make you do something that you really don't feel like to.

abaya · 12-01-2005, 12:23 AM

Cyn, you know that I am fresh from my maternal Thai grandmother dying of cancer in the last month. I struggled over whether or not I had time and money to attend the funeral. I visited her three times since she got sick; she lived in my family home for the last 10+ years of my life, and was practically a second mother to me. If I was not in graduate school and could have afforded it, I would have gone home to visit her even more often, and been at her side in the last days if possible.

As it was, it wasn't until a few days before the funeral that ktspktsp noticed a pang in my heart, even though I had already concluded a month before that I would not be able to go for the funeral. He saw that there was a small bit of time opened in my schedule that week, and told me that if there was any way for me to set aside a few days to go, he would pay for the trip. He knew I would have regretted not going. He knows me better than myself, at times. So I went.

Why do I tell you this? To say that for the relationship I had with my grandmother, I needed to go. What I didn't realize until I got there was that I also needed to go for the sake of BEING with my Asian family during their loss (yes, we had quite a bit of drama at the funeral too... damn, that was painful). That part had little to do with my grandmother, and everything to do with being a part of my Thai half, an experience I rarely get. This was my individual experience.

It was also not that far away (as yours)... I traveled about 15 hours one-way, but that's because I'm in hicktown PA and had to drive to Philly, then fly to San Fran and then to Seattle. If it had been in Thailand, I could not have gone.

I think for you, it seems obvious that you do not want to honor the relationship you had with her, becaus she never honored it with you. I think that if you were to go, the only reason would be to be with your family there, to help them grieve, to sit through their drama and just be a part of the family. It doesn't mean you are condoning your grandmother's behavior.

But then again, if you don't feel close to any of those family members either, and also it's a DAMN long trip there... well, I wouldn't hold it against you. And if they love you, they shouldn't either. It is your decision, to know what you would regret more. Going, or not going? Either way, we respect you here.

kangaeru · 12-01-2005, 01:54 AM

I'd go just to have some closure on that. You can watch her get lowered into the ground and think, "See Grandma, I outlived you. The legacy you've left to those around you is of a cold and ugly person, congratulations". And then you can smile about it.

Or you can just not go...

Ananas · 12-01-2005, 02:22 AM

If you do not go the funeral you know you are going to catch hell from the family.
If you go to the funeral you are going to be angry with your family and yourself, but most of all with your grandmother.
You seem to be very close to your sister. Call her and talk with her about your feelings, get her opinion.

Maybe you can wait after the funeral is over, come to grips with your feelings (and anger) about your grandmother, and then visit her gravesite. You have to first get over the anger and resentment; it's not worth carrying around for the rest of your life.

Reese · 12-01-2005, 02:34 AM

I lost my grandmother last year and we weren't exactly close so I know how you feel, almost. She only lived a few miles away but we just didn't get along. When she died, I was talking to a friend about my feelings about her and he told me, "Don't go to her funeral to show respect for her, Go to show respect to her(and your) family. Help them through the tough time by being there for them." I still don't like the relationship we had, and even though I don't reget not seeing her before she died, I know I would have regretted not attending her funeral.

lurkette · 12-01-2005, 05:58 AM

I can see both sides. I am not close at all to my paternal grandparents, and when they die I will not be going to their funerals. They're practically strangers, as is the rest of that side of the family.

On the other hand, it sounds like you're carrying arouond a lot of resentment toward this woman and it might be good for you to go get closure, and to keep relations good with the rest of the family, as it sounds like you do see them an awful lot.

Choosing not to go just to spite the dead woman seems a bit self-defeating, and perhaps even a little childish, IMHO. You're not going to the funeral for her, you're going to give support and comfort to the peope who did love her and will miss her. If it means something to them, swallow your anger and just go. Slip a letter in the coffin telling your grandma everything there is for you to say, and bury your resentments with her.

maleficent · 12-01-2005, 06:05 AM

is there a reason why your father didn't call you to tell you and an uncle did?

Gotta lot of umbrage in you, my friend... it's not healthy.. I like Lurkette's idea of writing the letter and slipping it in the coffin and just letting those feelings go... but...
I'm kinda with your friend... enough.. you don't owe this woman anything.. however.. if this is your father's mother... would it be disrespectful of you to not show for him? Does that matter to you?

Awww heck... I need more coffee I can't make a decision...

Good luck

JustJess · 12-01-2005, 06:11 AM

I wouldn't for one simple reason: you were just IN the Phillippines, and it's a damned expensive and lengthy trip.

I feel the same way about this that I did about wedding guests when Quadro and I got married: we didn't invite anyone we didn't know and care about. So you pretty much don't care about her (she hurt you, but that's not the kind of care I mean)... why would you go? It's hypocritical.

However, it is very true that funerals are not for the dead - they're for the living. YOU don't need to see her and all that, but perhaps your parents need you to be there. I'd make my final decision based on whether it mattered to me how my parents felt about it. If she wasn't nice/close/etc. to your dad, then the hell with it. Don't go. If she mattered to him, then I would, assuming I could afford the trip itself.

Bill O'Rights · 12-01-2005, 06:16 AM

Hmmm...that's a tough one, Cyn.
Personaly. I'd say that it'd be very easy to just stay home, or perhaps sign up for a ceramics class on that day. But, as you know, I rarely do things the easy way. Look, just go, ok. Go to the funeral just to be there as a representative, if for no other real good reason.
Fast forward 10, or maybe even 20 years from now. Do you think that you'll be disappointed in yourself for having gone. I doubt it. But, you may be disappointed with yourself, for having not gone. Time does screwy things like that.
Do you owe her anything? I'd have to say no, based upon what you've written. But I do think that you owe it to yourself to close out that chapter of your life. I trust that, in the end, you're going to do what is right...for you.

ratbastid · 12-01-2005, 06:54 AM

There's not any right thing to do here. There's also not any wrong thing to do. Each option has consequences, which are real, but the "right or wrong"ness is a fiction.

Now may be your last chance to get everything you want to say to her said. If you let her go without saying those things, you will carry it (and your resentment) for the rest of your life.

aberkok · 12-01-2005, 07:09 AM

Take the high road and go.

Every time I go to visit my parents, who I love, there's always some sort of argument over my brother who lives with them. He is selfish and rude and I feel towards him much of the umbrage that you feel towards your grandma.

My wife pointed out to me that I have no choice but to keep my mouth shut when I go. There's absolutely nothing in it for me to be quiet. I'm always held to a much higher standard than my brother. Here are a few of the things he enjoys doing to my parents:

-taking the car without asking
-never being present at family meals (he'll get take-out and sit downstairs in his room)
-making us wait in the mini-van for an hour at the start of family trips while he gets ready, which basically means he is lying in bed

It's agony for me to not open my mouth about these things, but the moment I do, my mother thinks I am blaming her and she throws a tantrum. So my choices are: keep my mouth shut and watch this disrespectful leech walk all over my parents while they maintain some level of calm, or open my mouth and watch hell break loose. I've come to realize I only have to spend a couple of days at a time with them (and it's really not always so bad), so I've made the hard decision to never bring my brother up.

I hope you can see how this relates to your situation, Cyn.

Charlatan · 12-01-2005, 07:15 AM

I agree with Jess. You were just there. I assume you had a chance to see her while you were there, no?

IF she dies, I would make the flight, but not before. Remember, you are attending the funeral more for the sake of your relatives than for your grandmother. People like to have family around at times like this.

Aberkok: Good for you on taking the high road. It isn't your problem. Let your parents make their own choices. What you see as detestable they may not view quite so harshly.

Ustwo · 12-01-2005, 07:24 AM

Go.

Not for her, not even for your family but for you.

We have the same thing in my family. A grandmother who didn't like my mother and was basicly a bitch all of her life. The problem is she liked me and I never saw any of this. It was only much later that I learned of how she treated some people (including her own sister).

Its quite possible that you have family that doesn't understand the situation, she liked them and was nice to them, if you don't show up they will think it was very disrespectful and will not understand your reasons. Since I rather doubt you are the kind to go around telling them about it, odds are they won't ever know anything other than you were to 'lazy' to go to your own grandmothers funeral.

You owe her nothing, but don't let your feeling towards her hurt your relationship with the rest of your family.

guthmund · 12-01-2005, 07:34 AM

It's been said already, but I'll throw my two cents in anyway.

Go because you need the closure (whatever that is....

) or go to help out the part of the family that isn't worthless, but don't go because you feel it's expected of you. You're under no obligation to this woman (or the rest of the family for that matter) just because you share some relatives..somewhere.

I fear that anger and umbrage are getting kind of a bum rap here. I really don't think that there are any 'negative' emotions; just emotions. Anger, just like everything else in life, is fine in moderation and when it is directed by real purpose.

Cynthetiq · 12-01-2005, 07:41 AM

thanks for all your input.

To help add some clarity:

She's in Palo Alto, CA and I believe will be buried there. For some reason the call came from my uncle in the Philippines before my aunts in CA.

My father didn't call me because he's more estranged from her than I am. He doesn't get involved in the daily dramas of her. He specifically requested to not get any trivial information about her unless there's something really bad. He didn't get any of the The last time she "almost died" was about 10 years ago and I took leave from work to be by her bedside and show my support with the rest of the family.

The rest of the supporting family (7 bros and sis, incl my father) I have little interest or familial relationships. My genealogical project is something I'm doing as a historian more than a way to be closer to the family. They are only people I tend to see during times of crisis like these. Normal comings and goings I don't hear from them. There are a few who even live in NYC and we don't ever get together and that's quite okay by me.

The umbrage I carry isn't a burden. It doesn't come up in any conversations or my daily life. I rarely think about it. I've given the woman many chances in her life to build a relationship with me on our own terms but she's not ever bothered like she does with the other grandchildren.

To address the difference of difference of grandchildren relationships, on several occassions that my father has tried to reach out to his mother giving her money to buy things that she needs, she spent the money on her grandchildren. Did my sister or I even get a Hallmark card? Nope. She bought and gave things to all the other grandchildren that she regularly gave things except for the two of us. It didn't happen just once, but twice.

Rodney · 12-01-2005, 07:58 AM

Cyn, I can top you. When my _father_ died, I didn't care. And I haven't missed him a bit since. Nevertheless, I tried to stay on reasonable terms with him for the sake of my mother, through his later life and through the bout of cancer that eventually ended it.

So my question is this: would going through the motions for this person be of help to anybody you care about? I mean, of real help? My mom harbored (and still does) illusions that we were all one big happy family, and we never were; but we went out there a lot during Dad's last months, even though it's a day-long trip, mainly just to give Mom the support she needed.

If paying the respects would actually help your father or someone else you'd care about, I'd say yes -- for the funeral. Because funerals are for the living, who need support. (Frankly, some of the best parties my extended family ever threw were funeral receptions, because we all sensed it was time to close ranks and connect.)

But "last respects" in the hospital are for the dying. And if you don't have any respect to pay to her, don't pay it. "Respects" are earned through the connections and feelings one person harbors for another. Sounds like she never felt you were important or valuable; maybe just a baby-sitting obligation, or worse, furniture. No reason you should pretend otherwise by dropping everything to fly cross-country for her dying breath; frankly, your presence _still_ won't mean much to her.

I do sympathize with the harbored resentments. It sounds like you were a "good boy," as I was. You took the consequences of your elders' flawed behavior obediently, as you were told you were supposed to. And now you're still sitting on the anger. Would have been better, all those years ago, if you'd just stolen one of those ensaymadas and run off with it. Sure, you'd have been in the doghouse. But at least the family would have asked Grandma, "Why don't you ever...." and some form of truth would have lodged itself in the family consciousness. I say this as somebody who should have done roughly the same thing, 'way back when.

[Edit: just read your last message, Cyn, which must have been posted about when mine was. I reiterate: do respond in any way that you feel will support your dad. But that's the limit of your obligation.]

cyrnel · 12-01-2005, 07:58 AM

Go. For respect to her and to family, and yourself.

She's human. Consider her generation, how people keep things to themselves. Assume she has regrets of her own. Doing what you can for her and family speaks well of you. Letting old resentment shackle you only deepens the wounds.

If she's coherent and you make contact, wonderful. If not you made an effort and were there for family.

*disclaimer: I'm white so probably don't know what family connections mean.

photophile · 12-01-2005, 07:59 AM

I think you are being really self-absorbed by not wanting to go to the funeral.

lurkette · 12-01-2005, 08:15 AM

Meh...having read your last post, I've changed my tune. If you're not close to the rest of her family, and your father doesn't really care, and your resentments aren't the kind that gnaw at you, then don't go.

Supple Cow · 12-01-2005, 08:32 AM

From the way you say it, it sounds possible that not going to her funeral is just another injury you can return to her. If this is even remotely the case, I think you might regret it later. Whatever you decide--to treat her better than she treated you or not to--this is probably going to be the last time you get to do it. Only you can make this decision, and you'll be the only one responsible for having made it in the end. You should make sure it's a decision you can live with.

Stiltzkin · 12-01-2005, 08:40 AM

A few months ago my cousin's daughter died, and I didn't go to the funeral because I didn't even know that girl. I still don't even know her name. Should I have gone to pay my respects to her? Nah, I didn't even know her. Should I have gone to try to "comfort" my cousin? Nah, knowing myself I either would have said something stupid like "well, things happen you know. You have to move on," or I would have just stayed silent the whole time. Where's the comfort in that? It would have been completely pointless for me to go.

On the flip side, if I had kids, and one of them died, I would be annoyed if people started showing up to the funeral that didn't even know my kid, even if those people are family members. It would seem incredibly hypocritical to me, and would probably make me feel worse.

tooth · 12-01-2005, 08:55 AM

You don't go to a funeral for the deceased. You go for the living.

Do you have any respect for the members of your family that will be there grieving? Go for them, not your Grandma.

Sultana · 12-01-2005, 09:17 AM

My particular point of view is that one does not owe anything to people just because of the accident of blood relationship.

However, I do understand that culturally, Asians often have a stronger feeling of familial responsibility instilled. Which makes things harder, but not necessarily with different results.

I myself had a immediate family member who was worse than toxic, yet I felt obligated to continually try, try, try for a relationship of some sort. My other family members pushed for "healing". Well, sometimes healing means you cut off the diseased part and burn it. It's better to live without an arm than to drag it around, necrotic.
So that's what I did, and I have no regrets, family or no.

*I* am in control of my life, and I choose to spend time only with folks I want to spend time with, and will not interact with those I do not want to interact with (heh, outside of work), whether I'm related to them or not. Maybe I'm emotionally stunted or something (and who's to say?), but I don't understand why that's a problem for anyone else.

I guess one has to evaluate how one comes to decide if someone is "in" or "out". I mean, I wouldn't cut off a family member for say, giving crappy gifts. But if it was part of a systemic plan to make me feel worthless my whole life, and there were other significant things going on along with, then that would certainly factor in.

If you couldn't tell, I voted don't go.

Ustwo · 12-01-2005, 09:39 AM

Well .....

You could always go BEFORE she dies, and let her know how you feel.

kylie · 12-01-2005, 11:36 AM

i think you should go just cos she is a family member even tho she might never care for you but she is still a family member. in my family, my mom dislike my grandma (my dad's mom) because my grandma never respects her cos she didnt born in a rich family. however, i know if my grandma died she would have to go to show everyone that she is not the worst daughter in law as my grama thinks she is . sometimes people tell us that dont worry what other say to you. but for the family it is too much talking and yepping between that can make you feel guilty if you dont go.

Sultana · 12-01-2005, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Well .....

You could always go BEFORE she dies, and let her know how you feel.

Or, to make it a bit more convenient, write that letter folks are encouraging you to slip into her casket and give it to her now.

Ustwo, that's great input.

snowy · 12-01-2005, 12:07 PM

Oi vey...

Your grandmother sounds like a milder version of my grandmother. I totally understand the gift card thing--my grandmother would always buy these big, expensive gifts and clothing for my cousins because "they were poor." Truthfully, my family wasn't very well off either, but because we owned our own home (nevermind we owed on it) I guess we didn't qualify. Every time I saw her, up until the day she left to move to Las Vegas and never spoke to us again, she had a way of showing her favoritism towards my cousins. "Oh, Chase is so smart, he's memorized all the 50 capitols." Uh, Grandma, I did that years before Chase did. "Oh, your cousin Haley is so smart, she got all straight As." Uh, Grandma, so did I. "Chase is such a great soccer player..." Nevermind my team won the championships. Anyways, you get the point. I should also note the time she went to PEI on a walking tour and bought me a porcelain Anne of Green Gables doll. She brought it all the way to my house in Oregon for Christmas one year, and then decided not to give it to me at the last minute because "I wasn't deserving."

I count myself fortunate that this lady divorced my grandpa over something incredibly trivial (and slightly crazy), and then subsequently decided to start a new life in Las Vegas at the age of 68. Haven't seen her since, won't be going to her funeral, and don't feel even the slightest guilt over it.

Don't let people poison you, and don't let other people have control over you. Feelings of guilt about something are frequently just that--letting someone else control you. You don't owe this lady anything. She treated you shabbily as a child. She's lucky you call her Grandma at all.

ngdawg · 12-01-2005, 12:43 PM

I would say don't go. Your own father's feelings on the matter show it all. Had he been close to her, you'd go for him.
I have sort of the same scenario here, but with my mother's siblings. None have ever met my children, they did not come to celebrate my parents' 50th wedding anniversary, giving poor excuses at best and not once did any visit my mother during her 2 month hospital stay. Yet, a cousin gets married and I'm ostracized because I wouldn't go to the wedding. I didn't know the girl-why would I go? My father said I was the topic of the evening-the only one who was practical enough to stay the hell home, they all said what a shame I didn't go....yea, right, one less gift.
Don't feel guilty about it, either. You tried when she was alive, nothing of value transpired so walk away knowing you gave it your best shot and now it's your turn to live and live knowing you're a better person than she is.
I detect a small amount of jealousy in the matters of the cousins getting the attention. Cut that loose, it serves no purpose. Your grandmother was a flawed person who missed out on a lot of good because of her actions-that is not your cross to bear at all. Stay home, raise a shotglass and watch a funny movie.

ironman · 12-01-2005, 01:38 PM

Been a latinamerican myself, i understand the value of a family and the pressure family can generate on oneself, but i've always thought that family is not about blood links but about love links, it is my case that i have over 20 cousins, and i don't recognize but 3 of them as so, but there is this other family that are best friends with my parents that i recognize as my uncles and cousins, why? because they saw me grow up, they were there for me in the good and in the bad and most important of all, i care about them and they care about me. Should you go or not, that's your decision, if i was you and if it was just about grandma i wouldn't go, but if someone that i love cares about her and wants me there by his/her side, i'd go to comfort them.

denim · 12-01-2005, 02:01 PM

Go, if for no other reason than to make sure she's DEAD. Bring a knife, in case there's an open casket. If she bleeds, she's not dead.

Then you can have the (dubious!) pleasure of watching her be lowered into the ground, watch them bury her, and spit on her grave. Once that's done, feel free to go home.

Gilda · 12-01-2005, 04:28 PM

"Death ends a life, but it does not end a relationship, which struggles on in the survivor's mind toward some final resolution."

If you've already resolved the problems you had with her, don't go. If you feel you need some closure with her or any of the rest of the family, go. A funeral is for the living, the survivors. Do what's going to be best for you in the long run.

Gilda

Glava · 12-01-2005, 06:08 PM

I had a much closer relationship with my grandmother than you did with yours. However, I still did not go to her funeral (or any other funeral, for that matter) because I see no point in them. Once a person is dead, there's nothing more you can do. Being in close proximity to their corpse would just make me incredibly sad.

MSD · 12-01-2005, 09:01 PM

Don't go. She was a bitch to you when you were a kid and she ignored you and your sister for the rest of her life. It sounds like she wan't much better toward your father, so it's not going to hurt him if you don't show up. Fuck duty to family, if there was any value to that on her end she would've at least sent you a card or two over the years. She didn't vcare about your life and you shouldn't care about her once she's dead. If you didn't get that phone call and nobody tells you when she dies, you would probably go years without knowing. Showing up would be meaningless for you. If you want to try to talk to her before she dies, that's one thing, but unless she apologizes for it on her deathbed, fuck her, fuck everyone in your family who didn't say a thing while she treated you like you didn't exist for your whole life, and fuck going to the funeral.

iblade · 12-01-2005, 10:12 PM

I don't see where her grandmother was a bitch. You are angry at her for all she didn't do. I find these reasons very childish. How come you expect things from people? That is very selfish. Did you talk to her about it? Maybe your grandma had a reason for doing so. Maybe going there would let her tell you things she never told you before. There are better reasons for hating your family members, such as bad things that they DID do. I'm sure you have good memories with that grandmother of yours.

I'm pissed because there are so many other cases where grandparents really behaved like bitches towards their children and grand children, and where I would truly hesitate to go if they were on the verge of death, but this is no case to be hesitating. Had she done something really bad to you, you would be entitled to hesitate. Realize how lucky you are and go. Heck, that could be the occasion for you and her to open your hearts. It is never too late.

Sweetpea · 12-01-2005, 10:58 PM

I feel that just because someone is 'Family' or related to us, doesn't mean that we have to feel some emotional connection.. so don't feel you have to feel a certain way about her just because her title happens to be 'grandmother'.....

i wouldn't go and i wouldn't have a second thought about it.....

Sweetpea

pan6467 · 12-02-2005, 12:08 AM

Cyn,

My condolences.

You need to do what you feel is right in your heart and what you can live with. I know that sounds like a cop out, but it's the truth. You cannot nor should you spend your life thinking about what others will say. Do what is right for you.

If you feel like going will make you miserable or that you just don't want to be there, then don't. Sounds like she had issues with you and your father and if she was not loving and supportive why go?

Is your dad going? If he is perhaps he would like for you to be there with him. If he isn't going perhaps your father and you can arrange a rememberance for her with just you.

On the other hand, perhaps this can be a time when family can be brought together closer and feuds put aside.

I know when my dad's mother died, mom and dad were going through a very nasty divorce. I was living with my mother helping her, and my dad never even called me to tell me. I found out through my other grandmother.

Dad was close to his mom and had mended fences that she blamed my mother for breaking. It was actually her, my dad's mom was a true nutcase. So during the divorce my grandmother never had anything to say to me.

Even though it was not comfortable for me to go, I went. I was able to see aunts and cousins that I hadn't seen in years, and all welcomed me very warmly.

It surprised my father and we were able to mend fences dad and I. I think my being there meant more to him than he will ever let me know.

I went solely for my dad and to show him support. I am glad I did.

That's my story.

I hope this helps you in some way.

Dragonknight · 12-02-2005, 01:39 AM

I didn't look at any ones posts on this so it's just me.

I voted yes for one reason and that is this. If you go you will never have any regrets on not going. I doubt you will feel regret for going, but if there is a small chance you might regret or be guilt tripped into regretting not going. I also feel that you don't owe her anything. She never gave anything even when you did, she deserves nothing. Go just to say bye, even if it's a woman you never knew. Good luck with this.

Cynthetiq · 12-02-2005, 02:14 AM

thanks for the continued comments. She has made it through the night and her condition appears to be quite stable from the non drama conversations that have come to people who can separate the wheat from the chaff and actually make sense of what the people are twisting around coming from the doctors. My mother is in the medical industry, so she understands all that is going on that is being told. She's called bullshit on some of the things being said, examples:

Drama Statement:
She's being taking off of life support.

Reality:
Her potassium drip is being stopped because it's just keeping her alive.

Harder Reality:
One of the other siblings requested that the doctor do this. Why? Because one of the siblings has a vacation planned in a few days and has to travel back to the Philippines.

Did she have any instructions on paper for that? No? Then how can you say that? No Doctors directives or orders? Why would there be because she is actually stable and not in any pain? Treatment should continue as is without any changes until her condition changes. No doctor in today's litigation happy society would just do that without any signature to protect him and the hospital from any type of case of malpractice.

Drama Statement:
She's going to die, everyone needs to come together this weekend. (stated for this up coming weekend)

Reality:
Three weeks ago when she was more coherent she requested that all the siblings gather in her room.

Harder Reality:
People have to come across country and buy plane tickets. Traveling isn't cheap via airplane. Just because some of the siblings don't care about costs and travel at the drop of a hat, others cannot.

Why didn't you make this plan when she made the request? People could have at least bought 14 day advance tickets maybe saving 50% off of airfare. Give them only 2-3 days notice and you've made it impossible for some people to attend.

Drama Statement:
Relatives who haven't spoken to my father in years have been calling to convince him, stating,"She's being taken off life support. Go to her bedside."

Reality:
Again, she's not been on any life support.

Harder Reality:
He's flat out refused and given the response,"I will on my own terms and time line."

She has a "no heroic measures" DCR (I only know of a DNR), so in order for that to take place she has to flat line. Did she flat line? No.

What did she do?
For me and my sister, (and as I'm finding out my cousins that were also born here in America) absolutely nothing.

For the Filipino born, she's come out of cooking retirement to cater birthday parties, gave gifts on birthdays and holidays, made phone calls on regular basis. As an artist she made art works inspired by those Filipino born, and didn't bother for the American born.

To those that say these are childish or selfish reasons. They are, but they are only just the tip of the iceberg to illustrate the relationship. Are they the worst offenses? Possibly, but there could easily be more, these are the ones that I can recall since they are the ones that brought me to the point that I am now. I don't know if there are other affronts because I'm honestly not keeping score since I really don't care about her or our relationship that doesn't exist.

Now the statements above may come off a me being jealous of my cousins that did get her attention. Absolutely not. Those cousins are quite a clique in their own right to which I don't belong nor do I care to. When do I interact with those cousins? When they need something from me and only when they need something from me. The last time I spoke to one of them was 9 years ago when one of them was still in college and was trying to buy a cheap computer and needed some assistance navigating all the different configurations. The birthday after that was the ONLY time in my life that this cousin happened to call me to wish me a happy birthday.

Have I tried talking to her?
Yes, I did a number of years ago when I was in college and was building relationships with family members without the filter of my parents. My relationship on my terms not on my fathers. Did it make any difference? Absolutely not. Did she explain any of it? Nope not a single thing. She changed the subject.

Ustwo · 12-02-2005, 05:59 AM

It sounds like you have made up your mind, I wouldn't loose any sleep over it.

View Poll Results: Should I go to the funeral?
yes	18	36.00%
no	32	64.00%
Voters: 50. You may not vote on this poll

12-01-2005, 12:04 AM	#1 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	She's going to die... and I don't care I just got a call from the Philippines from an uncle letting me know that my paternal grandmother may not make it through the night. Now mind you all, there is camp within the family that are drama creators. They live and breathe it. While grandma is in the hospital, no doctor has stated that she's not going to make it through the night, no doctor has stated that she's going to make it through the night. They made this judgement on their own based on few facts and no one in that section of the family knows enough about medicine to put the facts together to come up with any real meaning. She's gone from having fallen down to semi incoherent, not eating to being force fed with tubes, to permenent stomach peg to facilitate feeding. The first call I got tonight was that her blood pressure has fallen and that she doesn't look like she'll make it. Further information comes from another aunt who's stated that her blood pressure has dropped, she's got fluid in the lungs, and she's on a 1ml morphine drip. All this information comes in bits and pieces, several phone conversations from other family members etc. She's in the hospital in Palo Alto, CA and will probably have services around there. As she's been deteriorating for the past few weeks, I've been wrestling with some ideas that are in direct conflict with my own desires. As an Asian, I feel some duty to the family especially in times of crisis. As an American, I really don't give a damn about this woman. Let me explain, and then please let me know if you agree or disagree. My best friend made me stop at three reasons, I'll give you those three to read and decide for yourself. There are many many more than three throughout my life. Grandma is a renowned chef and baker. People would come from miles around to buy her baked goods, so when she came to America I recall a time staying with her and her baking ensaymada, a filipino sweet bread. As a child it was one of my favorite snacks and I can recall her sitting making these by the dozens and asking her for one and always being denied. "Hijo, these are for my customers," was always the reply. She never made a batch for me that I can recall. This is something that I've always carried since I was 5-6 years old, and have always taken umbrage at her never making any for me. When my sister was born I was six years old in the mid 70s, a time when it was common for new mothers to stay in the hospital for at least three days. The day after she was born I wrote a two sentence letter to my mom stating that I wish I could come and see the baby but I know that the hospital will not allow such a youngster into the ward. (I recently gave this letter to my brother in law who framed it for my sister as a birthday present.) My grandmother lived 1/2 mile from the hospital. My grandmother never came to the hospital to see my sister. She said she was too busy for some reason that I cannot truly recall, I believe it was because she had some prepaid ceramics class that she could not miss. I have always taken umbrage towards her for this. To me this was unforgivable and even more underlined as other grandchildren were born she visited them in the hospital. When my sister married, grandma was invited. She didn't have to do anything as other family members were going to attend and she had a ride, and a place to stay in Las Vegas. She did not RSVP and did not attend the wedding. She did however RSVP to the bridal showers in her area, and never attended. She never even acknowledged missing any events, no well wishes, nothing. Now, you may ask yourself well this was your sister, what about you? Well, I didn't tell many people in the family that Skogafoss and I go to married. In fact almost 4 years later people are still coming up to me in the family saying, "I didn't know you got married!" I called my best friend to speak with him as I felt I needed some clarity on how I felt about this subject. It was at this point that my best friend said, "Enough, you don't owe this lady anything." Now if someone else posted this, I'd probably be there saying, "Suck it up, pay your last respects, if you can see her in the hospital see her." But I honestly have no last respects, I don't think I've ever had any inkling of respect for this woman. She has never written or called for birthdays or holidays, yet other grandkids she does. What's your opinion? __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION! Last edited by Cynthetiq; 12-01-2005 at 12:11 AM..

12-01-2005, 12:23 AM	#2 (permalink)
leftyderek Crazy Location: Currently Canada. I have been in Norway in the last two years, and in Hong Kong before Norway.	Being an Asian myself I understand the 'family' concern of yours. But then if I were you I would not attend the funeral- I mean, I would never show fake respects to anyone. And I don't see anything wrong being absent from the funeral, since you have some rather understandable reasons. I might sound rather cold-blooded but no, I would not go to the funeral. But following your judgements and feelings is the most important. Don't let social norms or family pressure make you do something that you really don't feel like to. __________________ -Imagine how beautiful the world would be if we could only do things for the first-and-last time. Imagine this is the last time you would ever be able to imagine. Imagine that. -Die Lust der Zerstörung ist gleichzeitig eine schaffende Lust. -...and god said Lx1,go! and there was light...

12-01-2005, 12:23 AM	#3 (permalink)
abaya Location: Iceland	Cyn, you know that I am fresh from my maternal Thai grandmother dying of cancer in the last month. I struggled over whether or not I had time and money to attend the funeral. I visited her three times since she got sick; she lived in my family home for the last 10+ years of my life, and was practically a second mother to me. If I was not in graduate school and could have afforded it, I would have gone home to visit her even more often, and been at her side in the last days if possible. As it was, it wasn't until a few days before the funeral that ktspktsp noticed a pang in my heart, even though I had already concluded a month before that I would not be able to go for the funeral. He saw that there was a small bit of time opened in my schedule that week, and told me that if there was any way for me to set aside a few days to go, he would pay for the trip. He knew I would have regretted not going. He knows me better than myself, at times. So I went. Why do I tell you this? To say that for the relationship I had with my grandmother, I needed to go. What I didn't realize until I got there was that I also needed to go for the sake of BEING with my Asian family during their loss (yes, we had quite a bit of drama at the funeral too... damn, that was painful). That part had little to do with my grandmother, and everything to do with being a part of my Thai half, an experience I rarely get. This was my individual experience. It was also not that far away (as yours)... I traveled about 15 hours one-way, but that's because I'm in hicktown PA and had to drive to Philly, then fly to San Fran and then to Seattle. If it had been in Thailand, I could not have gone. I think for you, it seems obvious that you do not want to honor the relationship you had with her, becaus she never honored it with you. I think that if you were to go, the only reason would be to be with your family there, to help them grieve, to sit through their drama and just be a part of the family. It doesn't mean you are condoning your grandmother's behavior. But then again, if you don't feel close to any of those family members either, and also it's a DAMN long trip there... well, I wouldn't hold it against you. And if they love you, they shouldn't either. It is your decision, to know what you would regret more. Going, or not going? Either way, we respect you here. __________________ And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran

12-01-2005, 01:54 AM	#4 (permalink)
kangaeru Crazy Location: on the road to where I want to be...	I'd go just to have some closure on that. You can watch her get lowered into the ground and think, "See Grandma, I outlived you. The legacy you've left to those around you is of a cold and ugly person, congratulations". And then you can smile about it. Or you can just not go... __________________ Dont be afraid to change who you are for what you could become

12-01-2005, 02:22 AM	#5 (permalink)
Ananas Still Crazy Location: In my own time	If you do not go the funeral you know you are going to catch hell from the family. If you go to the funeral you are going to be angry with your family and yourself, but most of all with your grandmother. You seem to be very close to your sister. Call her and talk with her about your feelings, get her opinion. Maybe you can wait after the funeral is over, come to grips with your feelings (and anger) about your grandmother, and then visit her gravesite. You have to first get over the anger and resentment; it's not worth carrying around for the rest of your life. __________________ it's gritty

12-01-2005, 02:34 AM	#6 (permalink)
Reese Delicious	I lost my grandmother last year and we weren't exactly close so I know how you feel, almost. She only lived a few miles away but we just didn't get along. When she died, I was talking to a friend about my feelings about her and he told me, "Don't go to her funeral to show respect for her, Go to show respect to her(and your) family. Help them through the tough time by being there for them." I still don't like the relationship we had, and even though I don't reget not seeing her before she died, I know I would have regretted not attending her funeral. __________________ “It is better to be rich and healthy than poor and sick” - Dave Barry

12-01-2005, 05:58 AM	#7 (permalink)
lurkette My future is coming on Moderator Emeritus Location: east of the sun and west of the moon	I can see both sides. I am not close at all to my paternal grandparents, and when they die I will not be going to their funerals. They're practically strangers, as is the rest of that side of the family. On the other hand, it sounds like you're carrying arouond a lot of resentment toward this woman and it might be good for you to go get closure, and to keep relations good with the rest of the family, as it sounds like you do see them an awful lot. Choosing not to go just to spite the dead woman seems a bit self-defeating, and perhaps even a little childish, IMHO. You're not going to the funeral for her, you're going to give support and comfort to the peope who did love her and will miss her. If it means something to them, swallow your anger and just go. Slip a letter in the coffin telling your grandma everything there is for you to say, and bury your resentments with her. __________________ "If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." - Anatole France

12-01-2005, 06:05 AM	#8 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	is there a reason why your father didn't call you to tell you and an uncle did? Gotta lot of umbrage in you, my friend... it's not healthy.. I like Lurkette's idea of writing the letter and slipping it in the coffin and just letting those feelings go... but... I'm kinda with your friend... enough.. you don't owe this woman anything.. however.. if this is your father's mother... would it be disrespectful of you to not show for him? Does that matter to you? Awww heck... I need more coffee I can't make a decision... Good luck __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

12-01-2005, 06:11 AM	#9 (permalink)
JustJess Unencapsulated Location: Kittyville	I wouldn't for one simple reason: you were just IN the Phillippines, and it's a damned expensive and lengthy trip. I feel the same way about this that I did about wedding guests when Quadro and I got married: we didn't invite anyone we didn't know and care about. So you pretty much don't care about her (she hurt you, but that's not the kind of care I mean)... why would you go? It's hypocritical. However, it is very true that funerals are not for the dead - they're for the living. YOU don't need to see her and all that, but perhaps your parents need you to be there. I'd make my final decision based on whether it mattered to me how my parents felt about it. If she wasn't nice/close/etc. to your dad, then the hell with it. Don't go. If she mattered to him, then I would, assuming I could afford the trip itself. __________________ My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

12-01-2005, 06:16 AM	#10 (permalink)
Bill O'Rights will always be an Alyson Hanniganite Location: In the dust of the archives	Hmmm...that's a tough one, Cyn. Personaly. I'd say that it'd be very easy to just stay home, or perhaps sign up for a ceramics class on that day. But, as you know, I rarely do things the easy way. Look, just go, ok. Go to the funeral just to be there as a representative, if for no other real good reason. Fast forward 10, or maybe even 20 years from now. Do you think that you'll be disappointed in yourself for having gone. I doubt it. But, you may be disappointed with yourself, for having not gone. Time does screwy things like that. Do you owe her anything? I'd have to say no, based upon what you've written. But I do think that you owe it to yourself to close out that chapter of your life. I trust that, in the end, you're going to do what is right...for you. __________________ "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

12-01-2005, 06:54 AM	#11 (permalink)
ratbastid Darth Papa Location: Yonder	There's not any right thing to do here. There's also not any wrong thing to do. Each option has consequences, which are real, but the "right or wrong"ness is a fiction. Now may be your last chance to get everything you want to say to her said. If you let her go without saying those things, you will carry it (and your resentment) for the rest of your life.

12-01-2005, 07:09 AM	#12 (permalink)
aberkok “Wrong is right.” Location: toronto	Take the high road and go. Every time I go to visit my parents, who I love, there's always some sort of argument over my brother who lives with them. He is selfish and rude and I feel towards him much of the umbrage that you feel towards your grandma. My wife pointed out to me that I have no choice but to keep my mouth shut when I go. There's absolutely nothing in it for me to be quiet. I'm always held to a much higher standard than my brother. Here are a few of the things he enjoys doing to my parents: -taking the car without asking -never being present at family meals (he'll get take-out and sit downstairs in his room) -making us wait in the mini-van for an hour at the start of family trips while he gets ready, which basically means he is lying in bed It's agony for me to not open my mouth about these things, but the moment I do, my mother thinks I am blaming her and she throws a tantrum. So my choices are: keep my mouth shut and watch this disrespectful leech walk all over my parents while they maintain some level of calm, or open my mouth and watch hell break loose. I've come to realize I only have to spend a couple of days at a time with them (and it's really not always so bad), so I've made the hard decision to never bring my brother up. I hope you can see how this relates to your situation, Cyn. __________________ !check out my new blog! http://arkanamusic.wordpress.com Warden Gentiles: "It? Perfectly innocent. But I can see how, if our roles were reversed, I might have you beaten with a pillowcase full of batteries."

12-01-2005, 07:15 AM	#13 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	I agree with Jess. You were just there. I assume you had a chance to see her while you were there, no? IF she dies, I would make the flight, but not before. Remember, you are attending the funeral more for the sake of your relatives than for your grandmother. People like to have family around at times like this. Aberkok: Good for you on taking the high road. It isn't your problem. Let your parents make their own choices. What you see as detestable they may not view quite so harshly. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke Last edited by Charlatan; 12-01-2005 at 07:20 AM..

12-01-2005, 07:24 AM	#14 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	Go. Not for her, not even for your family but for you. We have the same thing in my family. A grandmother who didn't like my mother and was basicly a bitch all of her life. The problem is she liked me and I never saw any of this. It was only much later that I learned of how she treated some people (including her own sister). Its quite possible that you have family that doesn't understand the situation, she liked them and was nice to them, if you don't show up they will think it was very disrespectful and will not understand your reasons. Since I rather doubt you are the kind to go around telling them about it, odds are they won't ever know anything other than you were to 'lazy' to go to your own grandmothers funeral. You owe her nothing, but don't let your feeling towards her hurt your relationship with the rest of your family. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

12-01-2005, 07:34 AM	#15 (permalink)
guthmund big damn hero	It's been said already, but I'll throw my two cents in anyway. Go because you need the closure (whatever that is.... ) or go to help out the part of the family that isn't worthless, but don't go because you feel it's expected of you. You're under no obligation to this woman (or the rest of the family for that matter) just because you share some relatives..somewhere. I fear that anger and umbrage are getting kind of a bum rap here. I really don't think that there are any 'negative' emotions; just emotions. Anger, just like everything else in life, is fine in moderation and when it is directed by real purpose. __________________ No signature. None. Seriously. Last edited by guthmund; 12-01-2005 at 07:42 AM..

12-01-2005, 07:41 AM	#16 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	thanks for all your input. To help add some clarity: She's in Palo Alto, CA and I believe will be buried there. For some reason the call came from my uncle in the Philippines before my aunts in CA. My father didn't call me because he's more estranged from her than I am. He doesn't get involved in the daily dramas of her. He specifically requested to not get any trivial information about her unless there's something really bad. He didn't get any of the The last time she "almost died" was about 10 years ago and I took leave from work to be by her bedside and show my support with the rest of the family. The rest of the supporting family (7 bros and sis, incl my father) I have little interest or familial relationships. My genealogical project is something I'm doing as a historian more than a way to be closer to the family. They are only people I tend to see during times of crisis like these. Normal comings and goings I don't hear from them. There are a few who even live in NYC and we don't ever get together and that's quite okay by me. The umbrage I carry isn't a burden. It doesn't come up in any conversations or my daily life. I rarely think about it. I've given the woman many chances in her life to build a relationship with me on our own terms but she's not ever bothered like she does with the other grandchildren. To address the difference of difference of grandchildren relationships, on several occassions that my father has tried to reach out to his mother giving her money to buy things that she needs, she spent the money on her grandchildren. Did my sister or I even get a Hallmark card? Nope. She bought and gave things to all the other grandchildren that she regularly gave things except for the two of us. It didn't happen just once, but twice. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

12-01-2005, 07:58 AM	#17 (permalink)
Rodney Observant Ruminant Location: Rich Wannabe Hippie Town	Cyn, I can top you. When my _father_ died, I didn't care. And I haven't missed him a bit since. Nevertheless, I tried to stay on reasonable terms with him for the sake of my mother, through his later life and through the bout of cancer that eventually ended it. So my question is this: would going through the motions for this person be of help to anybody you care about? I mean, of real help? My mom harbored (and still does) illusions that we were all one big happy family, and we never were; but we went out there a lot during Dad's last months, even though it's a day-long trip, mainly just to give Mom the support she needed. If paying the respects would actually help your father or someone else you'd care about, I'd say yes -- for the funeral. Because funerals are for the living, who need support. (Frankly, some of the best parties my extended family ever threw were funeral receptions, because we all sensed it was time to close ranks and connect.) But "last respects" in the hospital are for the dying. And if you don't have any respect to pay to her, don't pay it. "Respects" are earned through the connections and feelings one person harbors for another. Sounds like she never felt you were important or valuable; maybe just a baby-sitting obligation, or worse, furniture. No reason you should pretend otherwise by dropping everything to fly cross-country for her dying breath; frankly, your presence _still_ won't mean much to her. I do sympathize with the harbored resentments. It sounds like you were a "good boy," as I was. You took the consequences of your elders' flawed behavior obediently, as you were told you were supposed to. And now you're still sitting on the anger. Would have been better, all those years ago, if you'd just stolen one of those ensaymadas and run off with it. Sure, you'd have been in the doghouse. But at least the family would have asked Grandma, "Why don't you ever...." and some form of truth would have lodged itself in the family consciousness. I say this as somebody who should have done roughly the same thing, 'way back when. [Edit: just read your last message, Cyn, which must have been posted about when mine was. I reiterate: do respond in any way that you feel will support your dad. But that's the limit of your obligation.] Last edited by Rodney; 12-01-2005 at 08:09 AM..

12-01-2005, 07:58 AM	#18 (permalink)
cyrnel Adequate Location: In my angry-dome.	Go. For respect to her and to family, and yourself. She's human. Consider her generation, how people keep things to themselves. Assume she has regrets of her own. Doing what you can for her and family speaks well of you. Letting old resentment shackle you only deepens the wounds. If she's coherent and you make contact, wonderful. If not you made an effort and were there for family. *disclaimer: I'm white so probably don't know what family connections mean. __________________ There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

12-01-2005, 07:59 AM	#19 (permalink)
photophile Upright	I think you are being really self-absorbed by not wanting to go to the funeral.

12-01-2005, 08:15 AM	#20 (permalink)
lurkette My future is coming on Moderator Emeritus Location: east of the sun and west of the moon	Meh...having read your last post, I've changed my tune. If you're not close to the rest of her family, and your father doesn't really care, and your resentments aren't the kind that gnaw at you, then don't go. __________________ "If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." - Anatole France

12-01-2005, 08:32 AM	#21 (permalink)
Supple Cow Americow, the Beautiful Location: Washington, D.C.	From the way you say it, it sounds possible that not going to her funeral is just another injury you can return to her. If this is even remotely the case, I think you might regret it later. Whatever you decide--to treat her better than she treated you or not to--this is probably going to be the last time you get to do it. Only you can make this decision, and you'll be the only one responsible for having made it in the end. You should make sure it's a decision you can live with. __________________ "I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. Twenty-six times I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed." (Michael Jordan)

12-01-2005, 08:40 AM	#22 (permalink)
Stiltzkin Junkie	A few months ago my cousin's daughter died, and I didn't go to the funeral because I didn't even know that girl. I still don't even know her name. Should I have gone to pay my respects to her? Nah, I didn't even know her. Should I have gone to try to "comfort" my cousin? Nah, knowing myself I either would have said something stupid like "well, things happen you know. You have to move on," or I would have just stayed silent the whole time. Where's the comfort in that? It would have been completely pointless for me to go. On the flip side, if I had kids, and one of them died, I would be annoyed if people started showing up to the funeral that didn't even know my kid, even if those people are family members. It would seem incredibly hypocritical to me, and would probably make me feel worse. Last edited by Stiltzkin; 12-01-2005 at 08:42 AM..

12-01-2005, 08:55 AM	#23 (permalink)
tooth Addict	You don't go to a funeral for the deceased. You go for the living. Do you have any respect for the members of your family that will be there grieving? Go for them, not your Grandma.

12-01-2005, 09:17 AM	#24 (permalink)
Sultana Falling Angel Location: L.A. L.A. land	My particular point of view is that one does not owe anything to people just because of the accident of blood relationship. However, I do understand that culturally, Asians often have a stronger feeling of familial responsibility instilled. Which makes things harder, but not necessarily with different results. I myself had a immediate family member who was worse than toxic, yet I felt obligated to continually try, try, try for a relationship of some sort. My other family members pushed for "healing". Well, sometimes healing means you cut off the diseased part and burn it. It's better to live without an arm than to drag it around, necrotic. So that's what I did, and I have no regrets, family or no. I am in control of my life, and I choose to spend time only with folks I want to spend time with, and will not interact with those I do not want to interact with (heh, outside of work), whether I'm related to them or not. Maybe I'm emotionally stunted or something (and who's to say?), but I don't understand why that's a problem for anyone else. I guess one has to evaluate how one comes to decide if someone is "in" or "out". I mean, I wouldn't cut off a family member for say, giving crappy gifts. But if it was part of a systemic plan to make me feel worthless my whole life, and there were other significant things going on along with, then that would certainly factor in. If you couldn't tell, I voted don't go. __________________ "Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come." - Matt Groening My goal? To fulfill my potential.

12-01-2005, 09:39 AM	#25 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	Well ..... You could always go BEFORE she dies, and let her know how you feel. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

12-01-2005, 11:36 AM	#26 (permalink)
kylie Upright Location: chicago,IL	i think you should go just cos she is a family member even tho she might never care for you but she is still a family member. in my family, my mom dislike my grandma (my dad's mom) because my grandma never respects her cos she didnt born in a rich family. however, i know if my grandma died she would have to go to show everyone that she is not the worst daughter in law as my grama thinks she is . sometimes people tell us that dont worry what other say to you. but for the family it is too much talking and yepping between that can make you feel guilty if you dont go.

12-01-2005, 12:07 PM	#28 (permalink)
snowy Kick Ass Kunoichi Location: Oregon	Oi vey... Your grandmother sounds like a milder version of my grandmother. I totally understand the gift card thing--my grandmother would always buy these big, expensive gifts and clothing for my cousins because "they were poor." Truthfully, my family wasn't very well off either, but because we owned our own home (nevermind we owed on it) I guess we didn't qualify. Every time I saw her, up until the day she left to move to Las Vegas and never spoke to us again, she had a way of showing her favoritism towards my cousins. "Oh, Chase is so smart, he's memorized all the 50 capitols." Uh, Grandma, I did that years before Chase did. "Oh, your cousin Haley is so smart, she got all straight As." Uh, Grandma, so did I. "Chase is such a great soccer player..." Nevermind my team won the championships. Anyways, you get the point. I should also note the time she went to PEI on a walking tour and bought me a porcelain Anne of Green Gables doll. She brought it all the way to my house in Oregon for Christmas one year, and then decided not to give it to me at the last minute because "I wasn't deserving." I count myself fortunate that this lady divorced my grandpa over something incredibly trivial (and slightly crazy), and then subsequently decided to start a new life in Las Vegas at the age of 68. Haven't seen her since, won't be going to her funeral, and don't feel even the slightest guilt over it. Don't let people poison you, and don't let other people have control over you. Feelings of guilt about something are frequently just that--letting someone else control you. You don't owe this lady anything. She treated you shabbily as a child. She's lucky you call her Grandma at all. __________________ If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

12-01-2005, 12:43 PM	#29 (permalink)
ngdawg peekaboo Location: on the back, bitch	I would say don't go. Your own father's feelings on the matter show it all. Had he been close to her, you'd go for him. I have sort of the same scenario here, but with my mother's siblings. None have ever met my children, they did not come to celebrate my parents' 50th wedding anniversary, giving poor excuses at best and not once did any visit my mother during her 2 month hospital stay. Yet, a cousin gets married and I'm ostracized because I wouldn't go to the wedding. I didn't know the girl-why would I go? My father said I was the topic of the evening-the only one who was practical enough to stay the hell home, they all said what a shame I didn't go....yea, right, one less gift. Don't feel guilty about it, either. You tried when she was alive, nothing of value transpired so walk away knowing you gave it your best shot and now it's your turn to live and live knowing you're a better person than she is. I detect a small amount of jealousy in the matters of the cousins getting the attention. Cut that loose, it serves no purpose. Your grandmother was a flawed person who missed out on a lot of good because of her actions-that is not your cross to bear at all. Stay home, raise a shotglass and watch a funny movie. __________________ Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

12-01-2005, 01:38 PM	#30 (permalink)
ironman Smithers, release the hounds Location: Guatemala, Guatemala	Been a latinamerican myself, i understand the value of a family and the pressure family can generate on oneself, but i've always thought that family is not about blood links but about love links, it is my case that i have over 20 cousins, and i don't recognize but 3 of them as so, but there is this other family that are best friends with my parents that i recognize as my uncles and cousins, why? because they saw me grow up, they were there for me in the good and in the bad and most important of all, i care about them and they care about me. Should you go or not, that's your decision, if i was you and if it was just about grandma i wouldn't go, but if someone that i love cares about her and wants me there by his/her side, i'd go to comfort them. __________________ If I agreed with you we´d both be wrong

12-01-2005, 02:01 PM	#31 (permalink)
denim Banned Location: Massachusetts, USA	Go, if for no other reason than to make sure she's DEAD. Bring a knife, in case there's an open casket. If she bleeds, she's not dead. Then you can have the (dubious!) pleasure of watching her be lowered into the ground, watch them bury her, and spit on her grave. Once that's done, feel free to go home.

12-01-2005, 04:28 PM	#32 (permalink)
Gilda 32 flavors and then some Location: Out on a wire.	"Death ends a life, but it does not end a relationship, which struggles on in the survivor's mind toward some final resolution." If you've already resolved the problems you had with her, don't go. If you feel you need some closure with her or any of the rest of the family, go. A funeral is for the living, the survivors. Do what's going to be best for you in the long run. Gilda __________________ I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that. ~Steven Colbert

12-01-2005, 06:08 PM	#33 (permalink)
Glava Betitled	I had a much closer relationship with my grandmother than you did with yours. However, I still did not go to her funeral (or any other funeral, for that matter) because I see no point in them. Once a person is dead, there's nothing more you can do. Being in close proximity to their corpse would just make me incredibly sad.

12-01-2005, 09:01 PM	#34 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	Don't go. She was a bitch to you when you were a kid and she ignored you and your sister for the rest of her life. It sounds like she wan't much better toward your father, so it's not going to hurt him if you don't show up. Fuck duty to family, if there was any value to that on her end she would've at least sent you a card or two over the years. She didn't vcare about your life and you shouldn't care about her once she's dead. If you didn't get that phone call and nobody tells you when she dies, you would probably go years without knowing. Showing up would be meaningless for you. If you want to try to talk to her before she dies, that's one thing, but unless she apologizes for it on her deathbed, fuck her, fuck everyone in your family who didn't say a thing while she treated you like you didn't exist for your whole life, and fuck going to the funeral.

12-01-2005, 10:12 PM	#35 (permalink)
iblade Crazy Location: Kyoto	I don't see where her grandmother was a bitch. You are angry at her for all she didn't do. I find these reasons very childish. How come you expect things from people? That is very selfish. Did you talk to her about it? Maybe your grandma had a reason for doing so. Maybe going there would let her tell you things she never told you before. There are better reasons for hating your family members, such as bad things that they DID do. I'm sure you have good memories with that grandmother of yours. I'm pissed because there are so many other cases where grandparents really behaved like bitches towards their children and grand children, and where I would truly hesitate to go if they were on the verge of death, but this is no case to be hesitating. Had she done something really bad to you, you would be entitled to hesitate. Realize how lucky you are and go. Heck, that could be the occasion for you and her to open your hearts. It is never too late. __________________ We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.