The affair - what the hell am I doing? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

babaloo · 04-30-2003, 02:43 PM

The quick stats:
<ul>
<li>Me: pushing 40 very hard, married 13 years, lonely for 5, 2 kids, no strong religious affiliations other than I don't like to hurt other people.</li>
<li>Her: friends wife, gently nudging 40, married 12 years, 2 kids.</li>
<li>Us: friends for several years, madly professing love, madly making love, talking about a future together.</li>
<li>Timeframe: 3 weeks since first kiss.</li>
</ul>
Am I freaking nuts? I've wanted out of my own marriage for a while. I thought kids would help but I was wrong. Don't get me wrong, my kids are the world to me but I'm so tired of being alone in a marriage. Counseling didn't work well for us other than it produced our kids. It's just so damn easy to drift.

Friends wife says that her husband (a.k.a. my friend) would never do counseling. She feels that their marriage is just going nowhere. She claims that there isn't anything left but is scared to get a divorce.

There is a part of us that wants to get caught. It would be so much faster and in some respects easier if we did.

I am freaking nuts. She's going to go back to her husband. I'm going to lose my wife, my friend, and a woman who I can't stop thinking about.

Other than the obvious - "You're freaking nuts" - any advice?

Lebell · 04-30-2003, 03:21 PM

You have two completely seperate things going on here that need to be kept seperate.

First, you have your marriage which you have to make a discisioin on. Then you have the issue of your friend and a relationship with her.

On your marriage, just ask yourself how will you feel in 20 years looking back at whatever descision you make. Go with the descision that yeilds the best results. It it's to stay, work your ass off to do so. If it's to leave, do it and know that the pain will ease with time and you'll be better off.

With your friend, bottom line is she's married. You can try to anticipate her leaving her husband, but until the papers are stamped by a judge, DON'T BET ON IT. My advice is that you need to back off of a relationship with her NOW. If you both get divorced, then you can look at a fresh start together, but until then, don't do it!

I hope things work out for you.

prettypinkfiary · 04-30-2003, 04:28 PM

i don't know you that well but i do know this type of situation. why not agree to spend some time appart, get your affaiers (pun intended) in order, adjust your kids to the divorce, get that through with and THEN resume this wonderful hot and heavy romance. If your wife finds out you committed adultry you WILL get your butt screwed to the wall during the divorce and and angry spouse may or may not feel compelled to be the best person she can be during coustody hearings. same for her and her family. Besides i'm sure you two wil make much better partners when you dont have all thsi hanging over your heads. if this relationship is a beautifeaul thing don't taint it by makeing it a dirty secret. besides it doesn't sound like much fun to base your relationship on "makeing it through" a tough situation together.

Antagony · 04-30-2003, 04:44 PM

How old are your kids?

Also, prettypinkfiary makes good point in that you will be ass-raped in divorce court.

Even if the court remains completely unaware of any affair, you're probably going to lose more than 60% of everything you have, regardless of whether your wife works or not.

MSD · 04-30-2003, 04:50 PM

Whether or not you wait for a divorce, if the relationship between you and your friend's wife continues, you're likely to lose a friend. I'm going to have to jump on the bandwagon and say you'd better break out the KY and bend over if this comes up in divorce court. If kids weren't involved, it would be a lot easier, but without knowing anything other than that they exist, I'm not comfortable giving advice.

rogue49 · 04-30-2003, 05:14 PM

I just popped in just to say something on this....

You should understand that right now you are both in NEED.
You might be satisfying this NEED by filling the void with each other.
The feelings you have might be true or they might be illusion.
However, it is impossible to know since there are too many things with conflicting interests.

Back off
Let both of you get your lives in order, including separation from your respective spouses.
If this actually happens, only then can you start true.
Because there will no interference with conflicting emotions.
Take it very slow; your pain might be painting your visions,
And influencing your actions.
Don't lunge, step carefully,
You must BOTH be free and know your true selves again,
Before you can commit again to another.

I wish you well; desire can hide your pain.
Know it, and then you can make clear decisions.

Good luck.

gov135 · 04-30-2003, 05:19 PM

My advice is to take a step back. Cool off the affair for a week and spend some time at home with your wife and kids like you normally would.

This time is not to convince you of everything you'd lose... blah blah. You know this already.

Instead I think its good to take a step back to accurately weigh trying decisions without outside influence. This is an important juncture in your life, you need to make sure you dont make a rash decision.

Good Luck.

clockworkgreen · 04-30-2003, 05:52 PM

Makes me feel better knowing I'm getting married in 6 months that I could be due for something like this....Damn.

MilleniumZeus · 04-30-2003, 06:20 PM

I can't give you a clear idea as to what to do, but you are describing exactly what my wife did with someone else. I have 2 kids and this happened 3 years. I am still with my wife and we still have a lot of work. The trust issue is the the biggest issue. Babaloo,I havee ahard time siding with you, so I'll speak from the other side. If you don't want to hurt anyone as you say, you are going to, big time. I love my wife and I was crushed when I found out. My heart still hurts talking about this. You need to evaluate yourself first. Decide what is best for you. In the end, you will have to rely on yourself because she will have her own problems when the shit hits the fan. Look deeply, soul-serach. What you do will change everything. Make sure you are also not thinking with your dick because your lovelife with your life ain 't so good. Good luck! Please stop the affair physically until you both have had a chance to think things over and how it will affect everyone. It will be devastating. Good luck!

MilleniumZeus · 04-30-2003, 06:22 PM

I know...my typing sucks.Sorry!

babaloo · 05-01-2003, 02:36 PM

Thanks all for your advice. As to the questions:

The kids are young - less than 4 years old. There are pros and cons with this.

The state I live in is a no-fault divorce state. That doesn't mean that I won't be rectally assulted in court but it's a start.

And most importantly you're all right - back off for a while to sort out my emotions. As Lebell correctly pointed out I'm mixing two problems into one, and, as rouge49 also correctly pointed out masking out one problem with, in effect, another.

clockworkgreen, don't point to me as an example. Many marriages fail. Many succeed. Learn from both of those.

Lastly, Assman69, I can tell it was hard for you to say what you said. But it spoke to me deeply. Thank you.

mastertakana · 05-01-2003, 03:00 PM

I am sorry that you are in this situation. I understand how it is to be tempted. Please try your best to wait till your kids are grown too or they will suffer from the divorce

Slims · 05-01-2003, 10:30 PM

Even if you are not happy with your marriage, you owe your wife more than a blatant betrayal. If you decide to get a divorce, do so cleanly, without her knowledge of your affair. Otherwise, break things off with the other woman asap and go out of your way to do a little extra for your wife every day.

That being said, if you are not happy with your current marriage, then you owe it to yourself to get out of it.

neoinoakleys · 05-02-2003, 07:34 AM

Hold on....I am hearing alot of talk about a what the guy wants, and what the mistress wants and what is desrved to the current wife, etc...etc...

Let's not forget the main victim here. The kids. There has not been alot of talk about them. I have seen this happen WAY too many times. I have a friend who has gone through a divorce that devastated their kids. the divorce happened 5 years ago. one child now has a learning disability and has issues with authority. The other has become extremely introverted and won't talk to anyone.

I know there are some reasons that just can't be helped and a divorce is the only answer, but take into consideration how this could devastate your children.

Don't think that it won't have any affect on them, because it will...
They are the innocent bystandards.

My advise to you...

First and foremost get rid of the damn mistress...if you need to get laid, spend some cash and fly to Vegas and get some no-string-attached action.

Be upfront with your wife and tell her what is making you unhappy... I know that you went through therapy and all, but you need to make every last ditch effort to provide your kids with a STABLE family atmosphere. Your kids did nothing to deserve this, regardless of what differences you and your wife might have.

Your kids are depending on the family's stability to properly mature and grow. I think that before any other responsibilities, you have a responsibility to them.

I am in no way saying that you should stay married for the sake of the kids, but I AM saying, that you need to ask yourself, "How bad is it REALLY?"

You married your wife, that was your decision and your commitment.
You had children, again your choice and your commitment.

Now you have made your decisions and you have to live up to the consequences of your actions, and along with that comes some MAJOR responsibilities. Your kids are innocent and did not have any input into these decisions you have made, is this fair to them?

Sorry to be so harsh...I just think that there are bigger issues here than the issue between you and your wife.

Well, that is just my rant and rave....Does anyone else have any thoughts?

babaloo · 05-02-2003, 08:48 AM

Yes, no question that the kids come first. There are a total of 4 involved (2 and 2) and so it's tough. The kids are first and foremost the highest priority.

But my own personal experience is of parents who stayed together way too long "for the kids". They were unhappy, and I knew it. I was 13 when they finally divorced. They should have done it years before. In my case both sets of kids are young enough for it to be, IMO, less tramatic than when they have a better idea of what is going on.

So the real question is are happy divorced parents or miserable married parents better? I feel that I'm doing my kids more harm than good by staying in a relationship that just drains the life out of me.

But you're point is well taken. As was said before there are really two issues here - one or more failing marriages and an affair to fill in voids that exist in both of our lives. I need to solve one issue at a time, always looking first at what is best for the kids - both sets.

No need to apologize for being harsh. People need harsh sometimes. I appreciate your thoughts.

Cynthetiq · 05-02-2003, 09:13 AM

if you want to leave you wife.. leave her. not because you want someone else but because you want to leave her.

blkdmnd · 05-02-2003, 09:34 AM

I'm a huge kid advocate but each situation is different. In some instances, it is better to stay together. In others, better to split up. Only you know which is best.

As neo says, you need to think long and hard about how bad it really is. Think about how your marriage was before you started the affair. Were you ready to throw in the towel on the whole thing? Or were you just not real happy with the way things were going. If that's the case, wise up. Nobody has everything exactly the way they want it.

Make sure that you are not giving it all up just because you have exceptionally strong feelings for your friends wife. Make sure it's not for the sex. Don't let an emotion or a fleeting euphoric feeling determine the paths of so many others.

Remember, if this comes out, you will make life extremely difficult for 6 other people. Some of which may be scarred for life.

Good luck.

tricks · 05-02-2003, 11:09 PM

I agree with Cynthetiq. If you want out of your marriage, leave. But don't predicate that on getting with your friend's wife or vice versa.

Then, will there be a trust issue since neither one of you could be faithful in your previous relationship?

Maybe you shouldn't jump right into another committed relationship. Go find yourself a nice 20 year old.

moko · 05-03-2003, 11:09 PM

Getting into an affair is pretty easy. Getting out unscathed is bloody hard. I'd suggest that you are looking for something that you don't currently find in your marriage. I suppose it's a question of whether you and your wife can work things out so you feel the companionship you need. I was in a similar position to you about 7 years ago. No kids to complicate the situation for me though. In the end I realised that the person I was having the affair with was not perfect, but it was just a case of the grass being greener on the other side of the fence. For me (and my wife who found out all about it) it was a wake up call that we had issues that needed to be sorted out. I had to decide to stay or go and she had to decide if it was worth changing things for me given what I'd done. A friend of mine at the time told me to make a decision and stick to it. He said it wouldn't be worth waiting another 15 years and then realising I was miserable. In the end I stayed and we sorted everything out and I've never been happier. But it was a case of choosing one or the other and then making it work.

sierra2774 · 05-05-2003, 10:13 AM

If you are not happy in your marriage, your kids will sense this and it will not be good for them at all.

You need to decide on your marriage issues first. I do not think that you should just stay together for the kids. If you fight, they can hear you, they learn from everything they see. You need to figure out if you are still in love with your wife and willing to give up the affair to make the marriage work.

GSRIDER · 05-06-2003, 10:44 AM

I have to take this position.

If you are unhappy now, you will be unhappy later. If the TWO of you have tried everything, if you've laid it all out on the line and there is still a mutual void then end the releationship. Gently, kindly... sure it's not going to happen like that, but try as hard as you can.

Do you know if your wife is happy w/the marrige?

Do not for the love of all things holy get caught having an affiar... it will bite you in the ass ten fold for many many many years... the ex-wife will never forget it, the kids will learn about it and never forget it... it will ALWAYS BE IN THE BACK OF THEIR HEAD..... <b>DADDY IS A CHEATER</b>..... serious.

I am married, 2 kids with my wife. I also have a son from a previous releationship. I have very very liberal time with him, every weekend and all holidays, the entire summer.... How the hell did I get that!?!?! I ended the relationship with him in mind. Me and his mother were like oil and water... nothing... I don't think we fucked for the last 6 month of our relationship. I got out, said, I'm not raising a kid around the two of us always at eachothers throats. I hated the situation i was in. Obviously she did to cause she said fine. I laid out what I would do for her, day care, money.. no lawyers. Just me and her and a written agreement.

That is that.

Don't fuck up your relationship w/ yer kids.

I've heard some great suggestions above, cool off, make your plans, and go with it. But don't flaunt your other relationship.

Concertina · 05-06-2003, 07:56 PM

I've been the kid with the miserable parents....but I'm not, nor have I ever been affected by it....

Why?

Because they made the decision to divorce, and part as friends, (Which is how I've always thought of them) before I could remember any of it....

Just another perspective......good luck to you....
m

guthmund · 05-06-2003, 08:38 PM

The kids are young. They'll bounce back fine, especially if your involved with them heavily after the divorce.

If you want to leave your wife, leave her. It's really that simple. To stay in a marriage where you 'feel alone' only screws you both out the time and effort it takes to maintain the relationship.

Being the child of divorced parents myself, I can attest to the fact that a loveless marriage is just as bad for the kids. If you were to stay around a few more years, your kids will catch on. Kids have the amazing ability to see through bullshit. They'll catch you everytime.

And last, but not least. Don't leave your wife for another one. Leave your wife, because you need to, not at the behest of of another relationship already lined up.

Good luck to you, either way

Double D · 05-06-2003, 10:05 PM

Okay, small rant here. You've been involved with your friend's wife for _three weeks_ and you are now thinking of getting out of your marriage?

Why exactly does your marriage suck? You've got two babies at home and your biggest concern is your feelings about this woman? WTF? Do you realize that if you leave your wife and kids that their standard of living will almost be guaranteed to plummet? And you are still going to have to deal with your wife pretty frequently if you get liberal visitation. Or were you thinking of asking for full custody? This is about way more than your feelings. Your behavior will have an enormous impact on your kids whether you stay or go, but don't underestimate the consequences. Unless your wife is physically/emotionally abusive, mentally ill, or a substance abuser and unwilling to change, you can hang in there. Find a more competant counselor-if you are sincere about staying.

And kids don't just snap out of it either. Even the very youngest feel the effects of their parents splitting up.

babaloo · 05-07-2003, 09:35 AM

Double D - good rant. I guess I didn't fill in the story enough and I've had time to mull this since my first post.

No, I didn't just start thinking about a divorce in the last few weeks. It's been on my mind for quite a while. Then a short conversation with this woman made us both realize that we have similar issues with our marriages. As has been pointed out we have filled a void in our own lives with each other, at least for now. Are we really in love? I don't know for sure. What I do know is that I need out of my marriage with or without the other woman. As time has progressed I have come to the conclusion that, while her marriage is not what she wants, it may suit her for the time being. Again, I'm going through with a divorce with or without her. If she's there on the "other side", great. If not, then so be it. I simply can not to stay with my wife any longer.

Again, the kids come first. It's possible that their standard of living may not be as high for the next couple of years, I'll admit. But they will have a good house close to schools/parks/etc., food, good health insurance, professional daycare as needed, a growing 529 plan, etc., and, I truly feel, happier parents. It will affect them, no doubt. But so will my marriage to their mother.

So the long and the short of it - I have backed off some with the other woman. I have started contacting lawyers to learn my options. And I have had time to think about the kids. "This above all: To thine own self be true. And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any man." My translation - take care of yourself and you'll be better at helping others.

Thanks for your thoughts.

guthmund · 05-07-2003, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Double D
And kids don't just snap out of it either. Even the very youngest feel the effects of their parents splitting up.

Of course, they'll feel the effects. I think the point we were trying to make is that children, especially young ones, adapt pretty easy.

It's much harder for a 14 year old to accept that his daddy left his mommy for another woman than a 4 year old.

Sure the ex-wife's lifestyle will plummet, but it's the husbands job to make sure that the kids are taken care of. If that means sending a llittle more money besides the child support then so be it.

Children will adapt. If the situation has always been Mom lives here Dad lives there, then there's no system shock. No shake-up of the world that they've built around them. It's a bit different for a 12 year old going through the same thing.

Double D · 05-07-2003, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by guthmund
Of course, they'll feel the effects. I think the point we were trying to make is that children, especially young ones, adapt pretty easy.

It's much harder for a 14 year old to accept that his daddy left his mommy for another woman than a 4 year old.

Children will adapt. If the situation has always been Mom lives here Dad lives there, then there's no system shock. No shake-up of the world that they've built around them. It's a bit different for a 12 year old going through the same thing.

I'm sorry, but I think this completely oversimplifies the situation. Maybe it's just me, but I find the phrase *children will adapt* a platitude. Sure they'll adapt- they have no choice! But what about the little gaps in this wonderous adaption- the regression behavior (i.e. wetting the bed) or nightmares, problems at school and so on.

Please explain to me how it's *much easier* for a four year old to accept daddy dumping mommy for another woman, than it is for a 14 year old. At least a 14 y.o. has fairly developed cognitive reasoning abilites. All a four y. o. knows is Dad's not there anymore. I'm sure you've heard of abandonment issues. Childhood is where it all starts. It can be very hard to convince a young child that they are not the reason for the split up and furthermore, that just because Daddy left mommy, he won't dump the child as well.

Babaloo- I've been playing devil's advocate here, but if you feel you have no choice but to leave your spouse, I wish you and the kids the best.

Tirian · 06-06-2003, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by babaloo

Friends wife says that her husband (a.k.a. my friend) would never do counseling. She feels that their marriage is just going nowhere. She claims that there isn't anything left but is scared to get a divorce.

Two comments....

1: Why do people seem to feel this need for relationships to be "going somewhere", and please explain in clear english exactly and concretely where a relationship that is "going somewhere" is going ? Can't a relationship reach a really nice "zone" and stay there for a while ? I mean if it is a lifetime partnership, where is it going to be going in another 30 years ? Can a man and a woman be comfortable together in a relationship that has reached it's perfection ?

"going somewhere" in my mind is phsyco-babble rap!

2: Young kids do not adapt easily. My son was 4 when we pulled up stakes and moved. (note: moving should be minor compared to a parent leaving) Now this move was to be nearer to extended family to increase the family comfort zone for my kids. They now get to see grandparents, uncles, aunts, and cousins regularly as a result. My son now 11 still to this day remembers and wishes to be living back in the old town. Simply moving was very hard on him.

these things said - choose well for all involved.

joe100 · 06-09-2003, 03:05 PM

Enjoy that fact that you guys found somebody that you can get that spark with. But stop the encounters before they cause a big problem.

Remember this is just a short term thing. It isn't about love or anything that complex.

How do I know. Been there, done that. It was actually one of the most important things that I ever did. It taught me what I had wasn't so bad afterall.

geep · 06-10-2003, 09:54 AM

They say that love lasts on average 7 years. If thats all there was to being married then it would only be a seven year commitment.

The average kid moves out when he or she is about 19. If it was "just for the kids" then a 20 year commitment should just about cover the average of 2.

Did you say anything in your marriage vows like "so long as I feel like it"? I don't think so. You say you've been married for thirteen years. Did it ever occur to you during that time that you and your wife needed to be friends? You signed up for the long haul. If you can't be happy now what makes you think that anything you do from this point will make you happy in the future? If you're gonna put all that EFFORT into a divorce. Why can't you put it into your marriage? I"ve been divorced. My parents were divorced (some coincidence, huh). I know what kind of effort divorce takes. I've also been married 17 years. That's a lot of work too! Make your choice, but remember no matter what you do your life has defininetly changed.

MilleniumZeus · 06-10-2003, 03:08 PM

Enough with all this lecturing, folks. Obviously, if Babaloo was an unfeeling asshole, he wouldn't have shared with us. He needs constructive help here, not your horrible childhoods revisited. He knows that the kids will have dfficulties and he knows that the road won't be easy. I can't believe I am saying all of this.(see my first post) He needs to decide what is best for him. If he stays with his current wife and things don't improve, the whole family suffers. He is miserable, depressed and life is shit. Kids are smart and they sense these things. For those of you whose families split up, do you think things would have been better if your parents stayed married? Can anyone really know? How miserable would they be? Babaloo, my heart to heart questions to you is do you love your wife and do you think your marriage is salvageable and if so, can you see yourself happy again with her? Look to see why the other woman makes you happy and think back when you were first married. Did your wife back then have those same qualities? Can you talk to your wife? Is there decent communication? After my wife's affair, I asked why. She said he was easy to talk to and she felt she could tell him anything. I understand why my wife did what she did. I still have an aweful time with trust. Honestly, kids won't just bounce back and you probably see years of family therapy. My 8 year old son can see how much pain I am in. Read my poem "This man's heart" in the Tilted Literature and you will know how I feel about where I am now staying with my wife. Again, Good luck.

MilleniumZeus · 06-10-2003, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Forks
Assman, you are a good father(never thought i would utter this phrase in life but hey, live and learn). your kid will never really know the whole truth of the matter(if you don't let him) and i guarantee when its all said and done he will love you for what you've done. i admire you as a person and im sure your wife does as well. people make mistakes and the fact you can embrace Babaloo and offer guidance to him (when he is what you despise) shows how empathetic you are. you not only forgive her, you forgive the guy she cheated with too(metaphorically of course). when you feel down, just give your kid a hug and realize his life will be much happier thanks to you. youre a good man

Thank you !

babaloo · 06-11-2003, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Assman69
Babaloo, my heart to heart questions to you is do you love your wife and do you think your marriage is salvageable and if so, can you see yourself happy again with her?

No, I do not believe in my heart that I can ever work things out with my wife. We have grown but in different directions. I can't imagine being with her for the rest of my life.

Having said that though, the affair has been found out. It's been a hell of a rotten experience for all involved. We <b>were</b> selfish and acknowledged that at the time but to be faced by it hurts more. In a way I've betrayed myself by not being true to my own value system. No, there wasn't anything left in my marriage, but there certainly were better ways of handling that situation.

Both my wife and I and her husband and her are talking to counselors. I don't think my marriage will come through this but hers might.

But you know what? I don't feel dead inside for the first time in years. There is a song out by Evanescense right now that has the words "save me from the nothing I've become". I dedicated that song to her, even if I've lost her. She did wake me up inside. And it feels pretty damn good. Yeah, it's a bit selfish. But I can't continue to define my happiness through others.

I cannot express enough thanks to the posters in this thread, even if you totally ripped on me. I didn't want sugar-coating and certainly didn't get it. Thanks.

MilleniumZeus · 06-11-2003, 04:50 PM

Here's to a future, happy life, Babaloo.

Balaniki · 06-11-2003, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Did you say anything in your marriage vows like "so long as I feel like it"? I don't think so. You say you've been married for thirteen years. Did it ever occur to you during that time that you and your wife needed to be friends?

And if he just CAN'T? Is that fair to his wife? To go through life with a man that doesn't love her - doesn't care? Don't you think SHE deserves better than that?

Sometimes it JUST DOESN'T WORK. No-ones fault, everyone tried their best. Is it the "best" for these two people to stay in a meaningless relationship?

In the end it's between this man and his wife. Nothing WE say matters - just what htey feel, think, say and do.

oscar0308 · 06-12-2003, 05:31 AM

Forks and geep, you need to back stop the judgments. unless you've been in his shoes, you have NO idea what its like. i agree with everyone, including babaloo, that how he handled the situation was poor. until you've been a marriage and realized you've made a mistake, you have no idea just how heartwrenching it can be. i can sympathize with him completely. i was married only 3 yrs when i looked at my wife and realized that i had made a huge mistake. i didnt love her.. i dont think i ever did... not as a wife at least. there was a catalyst in my life that made evaluate what i had and where i was going and i realized that i couldnt make either of us happy.. nor could i make my 6 month old daughter happy. yeah.. think about that. the week my daughter was born was the week i realized that i royally screwed up. i've been divorced 2 1/2 yrs and i couldnt be happier. i have an excellent relationship with my daughter and i am a much better father like this than if i was still the husband of her mother.

all of you who say that when you marry its for life, its meant to be that way, but you know what? people make mistakes. i hear too many people say that we, as a society, divorce too quickly. i partially disagree. i think the real problem is we marry too quickly. i see people point to their grandparents and generations previous and say 'they were together 50 years!' yeah, so? but were they happy? isnt that the real question?

do what you know is best babaloo.. but make sure you know.

Minx · 06-12-2003, 08:21 AM

You make some very good points there, oscar, and I agree with you when you say that the problem isn't that people divorce too quickly but rather marry too quickly.
I speak from experience when I say that staying in a relationship for the sake of the kids is wrong. I won't go into the details, as they aren't important here, but kids are smart and they see everything. If the parents are miserable together it warps the way a child will view love and committment. Yes I believe that marriages require work to succeed....nothing that is worth having comes easily. But sometimes people make mistakes...and sometimes it may take a year or more to realize that. Two people who are not happy with each other and realize they never will be shouldn't stay together. I stayed in my own relationship far longer than I should have because I thought I was doing the right thing by keeping the "family unit" together.
Now we are happy. My kids don't have to hear fights, see tears. They know that they are still loved by both their Mother and Father, even if we do not live together. As far as the financial end...just because you seperate from someone does not necessarily mean children suffer financially. I provide my children with a good roof over their heads, food on the table, clothes on their back. They do not lack for a single thing due to our seperation...perhaps I have cut back a few of the "luxuries" for myself but never my kids.

To you babaloo...I am glad for you when you say you no longer feel dead inside. It's a good feeling, isn't it? I wish you all the best and I hope you do find your true love one day, be it the lady from the affair or someone you haven't yet met.

Double D · 06-12-2003, 10:05 AM

It sounds like there are two distinct *camps* on the affair/ ending the marriage question.

One opinion is, you took vows, you have children, you need to put your *feelings* on the back burner and hang in. It might get better it might not, but regardless, you owe your kids the effort.
Opinion two seems to be saying, if you are unhappy, cut your losses & get out.

It seems obvious that our opinions here are colored by our experience. We've got plenty of divorce *survivors* - both the adults and children (who are now adults) that were involved.

Everyone's experience & opinion is valid. No one's is better than the other's.
Babaloo and his family have some rough road ahead. No one is going to come out perfectly unscathed. He was brave to share his dilemma here and I wish him & his family the best.

macmanmike6100 · 06-15-2003, 12:30 AM

(random interjection: Rogue49, I love how you always seem to write in pseudo-verse!)

04-30-2003, 02:43 PM	#1 (permalink)
babaloo Upright	The affair - what the hell am I doing? The quick stats: <ul> <li>Me: pushing 40 very hard, married 13 years, lonely for 5, 2 kids, no strong religious affiliations other than I don't like to hurt other people.</li> <li>Her: friends wife, gently nudging 40, married 12 years, 2 kids.</li> <li>Us: friends for several years, madly professing love, madly making love, talking about a future together.</li> <li>Timeframe: 3 weeks since first kiss.</li> </ul> Am I freaking nuts? I've wanted out of my own marriage for a while. I thought kids would help but I was wrong. Don't get me wrong, my kids are the world to me but I'm so tired of being alone in a marriage. Counseling didn't work well for us other than it produced our kids. It's just so damn easy to drift. Friends wife says that her husband (a.k.a. my friend) would never do counseling. She feels that their marriage is just going nowhere. She claims that there isn't anything left but is scared to get a divorce. There is a part of us that wants to get caught. It would be so much faster and in some respects easier if we did. I am freaking nuts. She's going to go back to her husband. I'm going to lose my wife, my friend, and a woman who I can't stop thinking about. Other than the obvious - "You're freaking nuts" - any advice?

04-30-2003, 03:21 PM	#2 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	You have two completely seperate things going on here that need to be kept seperate. First, you have your marriage which you have to make a discisioin on. Then you have the issue of your friend and a relationship with her. On your marriage, just ask yourself how will you feel in 20 years looking back at whatever descision you make. Go with the descision that yeilds the best results. It it's to stay, work your ass off to do so. If it's to leave, do it and know that the pain will ease with time and you'll be better off. With your friend, bottom line is she's married. You can try to anticipate her leaving her husband, but until the papers are stamped by a judge, DON'T BET ON IT. My advice is that you need to back off of a relationship with her NOW. If you both get divorced, then you can look at a fresh start together, but until then, don't do it! I hope things work out for you. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

04-30-2003, 04:28 PM	#3 (permalink)
prettypinkfiary Upright Location: Louisianna	i don't know you that well but i do know this type of situation. why not agree to spend some time appart, get your affaiers (pun intended) in order, adjust your kids to the divorce, get that through with and THEN resume this wonderful hot and heavy romance. If your wife finds out you committed adultry you WILL get your butt screwed to the wall during the divorce and and angry spouse may or may not feel compelled to be the best person she can be during coustody hearings. same for her and her family. Besides i'm sure you two wil make much better partners when you dont have all thsi hanging over your heads. if this relationship is a beautifeaul thing don't taint it by makeing it a dirty secret. besides it doesn't sound like much fun to base your relationship on "makeing it through" a tough situation together. __________________ Makeing the world a better place, one pouff of fairy dust at a time

04-30-2003, 04:44 PM	#4 (permalink)
Antagony Psychopathic Akimbo Action Pirate Location: ...between Christ and Belial.	How old are your kids? Also, prettypinkfiary makes good point in that you will be ass-raped in divorce court. Even if the court remains completely unaware of any affair, you're probably going to lose more than 60% of everything you have, regardless of whether your wife works or not. __________________ On the outside I'm jazz, but my soul is rock and roll. Sleep is a waste of time. Join the Insomniac Club. "GYOH GWAH-DAH GREH BLAAA! SROH WIH DIH FLIH RYOHH!!" - The Locust

04-30-2003, 06:20 PM	#9 (permalink)
MilleniumZeus Crazy Location: Northern Virginia	I can't give you a clear idea as to what to do, but you are describing exactly what my wife did with someone else. I have 2 kids and this happened 3 years. I am still with my wife and we still have a lot of work. The trust issue is the the biggest issue. Babaloo,I havee ahard time siding with you, so I'll speak from the other side. If you don't want to hurt anyone as you say, you are going to, big time. I love my wife and I was crushed when I found out. My heart still hurts talking about this. You need to evaluate yourself first. Decide what is best for you. In the end, you will have to rely on yourself because she will have her own problems when the shit hits the fan. Look deeply, soul-serach. What you do will change everything. Make sure you are also not thinking with your dick because your lovelife with your life ain 't so good. Good luck! Please stop the affair physically until you both have had a chance to think things over and how it will affect everyone. It will be devastating. Good luck! __________________ ZEUS IS IN THE HOUSE!!! Last edited by MilleniumZeus; 06-09-2003 at 07:23 PM..

04-30-2003, 04:50 PM	#5 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	Whether or not you wait for a divorce, if the relationship between you and your friend's wife continues, you're likely to lose a friend. I'm going to have to jump on the bandwagon and say you'd better break out the KY and bend over if this comes up in divorce court. If kids weren't involved, it would be a lot easier, but without knowing anything other than that they exist, I'm not comfortable giving advice.

04-30-2003, 05:14 PM	#6 (permalink)
rogue49 Loser	I just popped in just to say something on this.... You should understand that right now you are both in NEED. You might be satisfying this NEED by filling the void with each other. The feelings you have might be true or they might be illusion. However, it is impossible to know since there are too many things with conflicting interests. Back off Let both of you get your lives in order, including separation from your respective spouses. If this actually happens, only then can you start true. Because there will no interference with conflicting emotions. Take it very slow; your pain might be painting your visions, And influencing your actions. Don't lunge, step carefully, You must BOTH be free and know your true selves again, Before you can commit again to another. I wish you well; desire can hide your pain. Know it, and then you can make clear decisions. Good luck.

04-30-2003, 05:19 PM	#7 (permalink)
gov135 Junkie Location: Midwest	My advice is to take a step back. Cool off the affair for a week and spend some time at home with your wife and kids like you normally would. This time is not to convince you of everything you'd lose... blah blah. You know this already. Instead I think its good to take a step back to accurately weigh trying decisions without outside influence. This is an important juncture in your life, you need to make sure you dont make a rash decision. Good Luck.

04-30-2003, 05:52 PM	#8 (permalink)
clockworkgreen Psycho Location: DC	Makes me feel better knowing I'm getting married in 6 months that I could be due for something like this....Damn.

04-30-2003, 06:22 PM	#10 (permalink)
MilleniumZeus Crazy Location: Northern Virginia	I know...my typing sucks.Sorry! __________________ ZEUS IS IN THE HOUSE!!!

05-01-2003, 02:36 PM	#11 (permalink)
babaloo Upright	Thanks all for your advice. As to the questions: The kids are young - less than 4 years old. There are pros and cons with this. The state I live in is a no-fault divorce state. That doesn't mean that I won't be rectally assulted in court but it's a start. And most importantly you're all right - back off for a while to sort out my emotions. As Lebell correctly pointed out I'm mixing two problems into one, and, as rouge49 also correctly pointed out masking out one problem with, in effect, another. clockworkgreen, don't point to me as an example. Many marriages fail. Many succeed. Learn from both of those. Lastly, Assman69, I can tell it was hard for you to say what you said. But it spoke to me deeply. Thank you.

05-01-2003, 03:00 PM	#12 (permalink)
mastertakana Crazy	I am sorry that you are in this situation. I understand how it is to be tempted. Please try your best to wait till your kids are grown too or they will suffer from the divorce __________________ All I know the time it is gettin dread Need alot of trees up in my head

05-01-2003, 10:30 PM	#13 (permalink)
Slims Eccentric insomniac Location: North Carolina	Even if you are not happy with your marriage, you owe your wife more than a blatant betrayal. If you decide to get a divorce, do so cleanly, without her knowledge of your affair. Otherwise, break things off with the other woman asap and go out of your way to do a little extra for your wife every day. That being said, if you are not happy with your current marriage, then you owe it to yourself to get out of it. __________________ "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill "All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence

05-02-2003, 07:34 AM	#14 (permalink)
neoinoakleys Psycho Location: Michigan	Hold on....I am hearing alot of talk about a what the guy wants, and what the mistress wants and what is desrved to the current wife, etc...etc... Let's not forget the main victim here. The kids. There has not been alot of talk about them. I have seen this happen WAY too many times. I have a friend who has gone through a divorce that devastated their kids. the divorce happened 5 years ago. one child now has a learning disability and has issues with authority. The other has become extremely introverted and won't talk to anyone. I know there are some reasons that just can't be helped and a divorce is the only answer, but take into consideration how this could devastate your children. Don't think that it won't have any affect on them, because it will... They are the innocent bystandards. My advise to you... First and foremost get rid of the damn mistress...if you need to get laid, spend some cash and fly to Vegas and get some no-string-attached action. Be upfront with your wife and tell her what is making you unhappy... I know that you went through therapy and all, but you need to make every last ditch effort to provide your kids with a STABLE family atmosphere. Your kids did nothing to deserve this, regardless of what differences you and your wife might have. Your kids are depending on the family's stability to properly mature and grow. I think that before any other responsibilities, you have a responsibility to them. I am in no way saying that you should stay married for the sake of the kids, but I AM saying, that you need to ask yourself, "How bad is it REALLY?" You married your wife, that was your decision and your commitment. You had children, again your choice and your commitment. Now you have made your decisions and you have to live up to the consequences of your actions, and along with that comes some MAJOR responsibilities. Your kids are innocent and did not have any input into these decisions you have made, is this fair to them? Sorry to be so harsh...I just think that there are bigger issues here than the issue between you and your wife. Well, that is just my rant and rave....Does anyone else have any thoughts? __________________ It's My Duty to Please That Booty!! Last edited by neoinoakleys; 05-02-2003 at 07:49 AM..

05-02-2003, 08:48 AM	#15 (permalink)
babaloo Upright	Yes, no question that the kids come first. There are a total of 4 involved (2 and 2) and so it's tough. The kids are first and foremost the highest priority. But my own personal experience is of parents who stayed together way too long "for the kids". They were unhappy, and I knew it. I was 13 when they finally divorced. They should have done it years before. In my case both sets of kids are young enough for it to be, IMO, less tramatic than when they have a better idea of what is going on. So the real question is are happy divorced parents or miserable married parents better? I feel that I'm doing my kids more harm than good by staying in a relationship that just drains the life out of me. But you're point is well taken. As was said before there are really two issues here - one or more failing marriages and an affair to fill in voids that exist in both of our lives. I need to solve one issue at a time, always looking first at what is best for the kids - both sets. No need to apologize for being harsh. People need harsh sometimes. I appreciate your thoughts.

05-02-2003, 09:13 AM	#16 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	if you want to leave you wife.. leave her. not because you want someone else but because you want to leave her. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

05-02-2003, 09:34 AM	#17 (permalink)
blkdmnd Addict	I'm a huge kid advocate but each situation is different. In some instances, it is better to stay together. In others, better to split up. Only you know which is best. As neo says, you need to think long and hard about how bad it really is. Think about how your marriage was before you started the affair. Were you ready to throw in the towel on the whole thing? Or were you just not real happy with the way things were going. If that's the case, wise up. Nobody has everything exactly the way they want it. Make sure that you are not giving it all up just because you have exceptionally strong feelings for your friends wife. Make sure it's not for the sex. Don't let an emotion or a fleeting euphoric feeling determine the paths of so many others. Remember, if this comes out, you will make life extremely difficult for 6 other people. Some of which may be scarred for life. Good luck. __________________ I blow my nose at you. Now go away before I taunt you a second time.

05-02-2003, 11:09 PM	#18 (permalink)
tricks Crazy	I agree with Cynthetiq. If you want out of your marriage, leave. But don't predicate that on getting with your friend's wife or vice versa. Then, will there be a trust issue since neither one of you could be faithful in your previous relationship? Maybe you shouldn't jump right into another committed relationship. Go find yourself a nice 20 year old. __________________ People Are Stupid. People can be made to believe any lie, either because they want it to be true or because they fear that it is.

05-03-2003, 11:09 PM	#19 (permalink)
moko Upright	Getting into an affair is pretty easy. Getting out unscathed is bloody hard. I'd suggest that you are looking for something that you don't currently find in your marriage. I suppose it's a question of whether you and your wife can work things out so you feel the companionship you need. I was in a similar position to you about 7 years ago. No kids to complicate the situation for me though. In the end I realised that the person I was having the affair with was not perfect, but it was just a case of the grass being greener on the other side of the fence. For me (and my wife who found out all about it) it was a wake up call that we had issues that needed to be sorted out. I had to decide to stay or go and she had to decide if it was worth changing things for me given what I'd done. A friend of mine at the time told me to make a decision and stick to it. He said it wouldn't be worth waiting another 15 years and then realising I was miserable. In the end I stayed and we sorted everything out and I've never been happier. But it was a case of choosing one or the other and then making it work.

05-05-2003, 10:13 AM	#20 (permalink)
sierra2774 Addict Location: Northeast Ohio	If you are not happy in your marriage, your kids will sense this and it will not be good for them at all. You need to decide on your marriage issues first. I do not think that you should just stay together for the kids. If you fight, they can hear you, they learn from everything they see. You need to figure out if you are still in love with your wife and willing to give up the affair to make the marriage work. __________________ "Every tomorrow brings new opportunities, challenges we must address...A chance to affirm all our wishes and dreams, to seek beauty and true happiness."

05-06-2003, 10:44 AM	#21 (permalink)
GSRIDER spurt king Location: Out of my mind	I have to take this position. If you are unhappy now, you will be unhappy later. If the TWO of you have tried everything, if you've laid it all out on the line and there is still a mutual void then end the releationship. Gently, kindly... sure it's not going to happen like that, but try as hard as you can. Do you know if your wife is happy w/the marrige? Do not for the love of all things holy get caught having an affiar... it will bite you in the ass ten fold for many many many years... the ex-wife will never forget it, the kids will learn about it and never forget it... it will ALWAYS BE IN THE BACK OF THEIR HEAD..... <b>DADDY IS A CHEATER</b>..... serious. I am married, 2 kids with my wife. I also have a son from a previous releationship. I have very very liberal time with him, every weekend and all holidays, the entire summer.... How the hell did I get that!?!?! I ended the relationship with him in mind. Me and his mother were like oil and water... nothing... I don't think we fucked for the last 6 month of our relationship. I got out, said, I'm not raising a kid around the two of us always at eachothers throats. I hated the situation i was in. Obviously she did to cause she said fine. I laid out what I would do for her, day care, money.. no lawyers. Just me and her and a written agreement. That is that. Don't fuck up your relationship w/ yer kids. I've heard some great suggestions above, cool off, make your plans, and go with it. But don't flaunt your other relationship. __________________ No signature at this time.

05-06-2003, 07:56 PM	#22 (permalink)
Concertina Upright Location: Between the 1st and 40th drink...	I've been the kid with the miserable parents....but I'm not, nor have I ever been affected by it.... Why? Because they made the decision to divorce, and part as friends, (Which is how I've always thought of them) before I could remember any of it.... Just another perspective......good luck to you.... m __________________ ~I got a fever above my waist~

05-06-2003, 08:38 PM	#23 (permalink)
guthmund big damn hero	The kids are young. They'll bounce back fine, especially if your involved with them heavily after the divorce. If you want to leave your wife, leave her. It's really that simple. To stay in a marriage where you 'feel alone' only screws you both out the time and effort it takes to maintain the relationship. Being the child of divorced parents myself, I can attest to the fact that a loveless marriage is just as bad for the kids. If you were to stay around a few more years, your kids will catch on. Kids have the amazing ability to see through bullshit. They'll catch you everytime. And last, but not least. Don't leave your wife for another one. Leave your wife, because you need to, not at the behest of of another relationship already lined up. Good luck to you, either way __________________ No signature. None. Seriously.

05-06-2003, 10:05 PM	#24 (permalink)
Double D Junkie Location: Chicagoland	Okay, small rant here. You've been involved with your friend's wife for _three weeks_ and you are now thinking of getting out of your marriage? Why exactly does your marriage suck? You've got two babies at home and your biggest concern is your feelings about this woman? WTF? Do you realize that if you leave your wife and kids that their standard of living will almost be guaranteed to plummet? And you are still going to have to deal with your wife pretty frequently if you get liberal visitation. Or were you thinking of asking for full custody? This is about way more than your feelings. Your behavior will have an enormous impact on your kids whether you stay or go, but don't underestimate the consequences. Unless your wife is physically/emotionally abusive, mentally ill, or a substance abuser and unwilling to change, you can hang in there. Find a more competant counselor-if you are sincere about staying. And kids don't just snap out of it either. Even the very youngest feel the effects of their parents splitting up.

05-07-2003, 09:35 AM	#25 (permalink)
babaloo Upright	Double D - good rant. I guess I didn't fill in the story enough and I've had time to mull this since my first post. No, I didn't just start thinking about a divorce in the last few weeks. It's been on my mind for quite a while. Then a short conversation with this woman made us both realize that we have similar issues with our marriages. As has been pointed out we have filled a void in our own lives with each other, at least for now. Are we really in love? I don't know for sure. What I do know is that I need out of my marriage with or without the other woman. As time has progressed I have come to the conclusion that, while her marriage is not what she wants, it may suit her for the time being. Again, I'm going through with a divorce with or without her. If she's there on the "other side", great. If not, then so be it. I simply can not to stay with my wife any longer. Again, the kids come first. It's possible that their standard of living may not be as high for the next couple of years, I'll admit. But they will have a good house close to schools/parks/etc., food, good health insurance, professional daycare as needed, a growing 529 plan, etc., and, I truly feel, happier parents. It will affect them, no doubt. But so will my marriage to their mother. So the long and the short of it - I have backed off some with the other woman. I have started contacting lawyers to learn my options. And I have had time to think about the kids. "This above all: To thine own self be true. And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any man." My translation - take care of yourself and you'll be better at helping others. Thanks for your thoughts.

06-09-2003, 03:05 PM	#29 (permalink)
joe100 Banned	Enjoy that fact that you guys found somebody that you can get that spark with. But stop the encounters before they cause a big problem. Remember this is just a short term thing. It isn't about love or anything that complex. How do I know. Been there, done that. It was actually one of the most important things that I ever did. It taught me what I had wasn't so bad afterall.

06-10-2003, 09:54 AM	#30 (permalink)
geep Insane Location: Imprisoned in Ecotopia	They say that love lasts on average 7 years. If thats all there was to being married then it would only be a seven year commitment. The average kid moves out when he or she is about 19. If it was "just for the kids" then a 20 year commitment should just about cover the average of 2. Did you say anything in your marriage vows like "so long as I feel like it"? I don't think so. You say you've been married for thirteen years. Did it ever occur to you during that time that you and your wife needed to be friends? You signed up for the long haul. If you can't be happy now what makes you think that anything you do from this point will make you happy in the future? If you're gonna put all that EFFORT into a divorce. Why can't you put it into your marriage? I"ve been divorced. My parents were divorced (some coincidence, huh). I know what kind of effort divorce takes. I've also been married 17 years. That's a lot of work too! Make your choice, but remember no matter what you do your life has defininetly changed.

06-10-2003, 03:08 PM	#31 (permalink)
MilleniumZeus Crazy Location: Northern Virginia	Enough with all this lecturing, folks. Obviously, if Babaloo was an unfeeling asshole, he wouldn't have shared with us. He needs constructive help here, not your horrible childhoods revisited. He knows that the kids will have dfficulties and he knows that the road won't be easy. I can't believe I am saying all of this.(see my first post) He needs to decide what is best for him. If he stays with his current wife and things don't improve, the whole family suffers. He is miserable, depressed and life is shit. Kids are smart and they sense these things. For those of you whose families split up, do you think things would have been better if your parents stayed married? Can anyone really know? How miserable would they be? Babaloo, my heart to heart questions to you is do you love your wife and do you think your marriage is salvageable and if so, can you see yourself happy again with her? Look to see why the other woman makes you happy and think back when you were first married. Did your wife back then have those same qualities? Can you talk to your wife? Is there decent communication? After my wife's affair, I asked why. She said he was easy to talk to and she felt she could tell him anything. I understand why my wife did what she did. I still have an aweful time with trust. Honestly, kids won't just bounce back and you probably see years of family therapy. My 8 year old son can see how much pain I am in. Read my poem "This man's heart" in the Tilted Literature and you will know how I feel about where I am now staying with my wife. Again, Good luck. __________________ ZEUS IS IN THE HOUSE!!! Last edited by MilleniumZeus; 06-10-2003 at 03:11 PM..

06-11-2003, 04:50 PM	#34 (permalink)
MilleniumZeus Crazy Location: Northern Virginia	Here's to a future, happy life, Babaloo. __________________ ZEUS IS IN THE HOUSE!!!

06-12-2003, 05:31 AM	#36 (permalink)
oscar0308 Crazy Location: New England	Forks and geep, you need to back stop the judgments. unless you've been in his shoes, you have NO idea what its like. i agree with everyone, including babaloo, that how he handled the situation was poor. until you've been a marriage and realized you've made a mistake, you have no idea just how heartwrenching it can be. i can sympathize with him completely. i was married only 3 yrs when i looked at my wife and realized that i had made a huge mistake. i didnt love her.. i dont think i ever did... not as a wife at least. there was a catalyst in my life that made evaluate what i had and where i was going and i realized that i couldnt make either of us happy.. nor could i make my 6 month old daughter happy. yeah.. think about that. the week my daughter was born was the week i realized that i royally screwed up. i've been divorced 2 1/2 yrs and i couldnt be happier. i have an excellent relationship with my daughter and i am a much better father like this than if i was still the husband of her mother. all of you who say that when you marry its for life, its meant to be that way, but you know what? people make mistakes. i hear too many people say that we, as a society, divorce too quickly. i partially disagree. i think the real problem is we marry too quickly. i see people point to their grandparents and generations previous and say 'they were together 50 years!' yeah, so? but were they happy? isnt that the real question? do what you know is best babaloo.. but make sure you know.

06-12-2003, 08:21 AM	#37 (permalink)
Minx Junkie Location: Up yonder	You make some very good points there, oscar, and I agree with you when you say that the problem isn't that people divorce too quickly but rather marry too quickly. I speak from experience when I say that staying in a relationship for the sake of the kids is wrong. I won't go into the details, as they aren't important here, but kids are smart and they see everything. If the parents are miserable together it warps the way a child will view love and committment. Yes I believe that marriages require work to succeed....nothing that is worth having comes easily. But sometimes people make mistakes...and sometimes it may take a year or more to realize that. Two people who are not happy with each other and realize they never will be shouldn't stay together. I stayed in my own relationship far longer than I should have because I thought I was doing the right thing by keeping the "family unit" together. Now we are happy. My kids don't have to hear fights, see tears. They know that they are still loved by both their Mother and Father, even if we do not live together. As far as the financial end...just because you seperate from someone does not necessarily mean children suffer financially. I provide my children with a good roof over their heads, food on the table, clothes on their back. They do not lack for a single thing due to our seperation...perhaps I have cut back a few of the "luxuries" for myself but never my kids. To you babaloo...I am glad for you when you say you no longer feel dead inside. It's a good feeling, isn't it? I wish you all the best and I hope you do find your true love one day, be it the lady from the affair or someone you haven't yet met. __________________ You've been a naughty boy....go to my room!

06-12-2003, 10:05 AM	#38 (permalink)
Double D Junkie Location: Chicagoland	It sounds like there are two distinct camps on the affair/ ending the marriage question. One opinion is, you took vows, you have children, you need to put your feelings on the back burner and hang in. It might get better it might not, but regardless, you owe your kids the effort. Opinion two seems to be saying, if you are unhappy, cut your losses & get out. It seems obvious that our opinions here are colored by our experience. We've got plenty of divorce survivors - both the adults and children (who are now adults) that were involved. Everyone's experience & opinion is valid. No one's is better than the other's. Babaloo and his family have some rough road ahead. No one is going to come out perfectly unscathed. He was brave to share his dilemma here and I wish him & his family the best.

06-15-2003, 12:30 AM	#39 (permalink)
macmanmike6100 High Honorary Junkie Location: Tri-state.	(random interjection: Rogue49, I love how you always seem to write in pseudo-verse!)