Jennifer

I'm in my last year of college (I'm going to graduate in May) and I've been feeling really depressed, especially lately. I never really had any friends growing up because I was never allowed to have friends over to my house or go to anyone else's house. When I came to college, I didn't really know how to make friends so the result is I have a lot of friendly acquaintences but no true friends. Everyone's nice to me when I'm around, but no one ever calls me to see how I'm doing or ask me to go anywhere (but they are perfectly nice when I call them). I started going out with my first boyfriend two months ago. For the last several weeks we grew distant and then he broke up with me on Tuesday because he felt it wouldn't be fair to me to lead me on for another few months and then dump me in time to ruin my graduation. So now I'm all alone again and feeling really empty. I can't really hang out with my friends except for on the weekends because they are always busy, but even when I do hang out with them, I still feel lonely. My only other option is hanging out with my ex-boyfriend and a girl who really gets on my nerves at times. I don't hate him, but it feels really awkward being around him since he dumped me. For instance, yesterday I went to the mall with him and that girl. I felt like a total outsider and I kept wondering why I even bothered going because she just prattled on and on about her soap operas and amusement parks and I had no idea what to talk about since I'm not into that stuff. So tonight I just stayed by myself watching TV, but as soon as the show was over I felt sad and lonely again. Add to that the fact that I have no idea what I'm doing after college, and I feel completely overwhelmed. I am getting help from the college career services to help me look for a job, and I started seeing one of the college's counselors the other day (my then boyfriend convinced me to go because I was really stressed out about my family, but the appointment I made ended up being two days after he dumped me). Anyhow, I guess I just needed to vent, but I'd really appreciate if anyone has any advice for me

Lizra

Join a club or two.....something you enjoy, hiking, dancing, poetry reading, birdwatching, gardening, career related clubs....surely there are clubs in college? Just keep trying new things and meeting new people...you'll click up with someone sooner or later...just keep trying. Practice a big warm friendly smile....it helps!

Have you bothered to notice any other people who seem in a stuation like yours? Hell...do something wacky...have a dinnerparty!
Ask a friendly aquaintance or two if they are interested in going to an art show. theather production, concrt, museum event with you....sound fun, be fun, have fun! sorry....perky pill. :blush:

__________________
Happy atheist

little_tippler

It sounds like you're a nice girl who doesn't know how to get her social life going. It can be hard. I've felt that way, though luckily in my childhood I was able to make a few very close friends even though I had controlling parents. I think you need to like yourself and value yourself more. Think that you are definitely worth getting to know, you just need to open up to others more and be prepared for the occasional rejection. I agree with Lizra that you should choose an activity you think might be fun and go to some classes. Dancing lessons or an art class, or even some form of sport that involves a group, culd be what you need. Especially because if you have a focus of some sort, and also that involves something physical, it can really boost your self-esteem and energy, and that can make a big difference in how you appear to others. So no-one calls you. You call them. Show them you're interested. Where I live, most people don't make much of an effort. It's easier to not try really. But nowadays if I think someone is worth getting to know, I make an effort. It can take a while, but I think you'll find that in time, people start responding and even calling you as well, and seem to even appreciate your effort and look at you with a degree of surprise for being "real" - if you get what I mean. Nothing is going to fall into your lap. You have to make it happen. Good luck and remember to love yourself a lot first.

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

hunnychile

Hi Jennifer, Yeah, that time right before graduation is intense! Not knowing what's in store for your future can make you feel depressed and scared. Sorry about the guy dumping you. Those first boyfriends are hard to get over, but you will - it just takes time. Stay busy and try some new activities. That will help a lot. Why not try to get to know some of those acquaintences you run into around school? Bet they're feeling scared now too. Have coffee with one or two of them. Go to see some art at a gallery. Play a sport. Hike somewhere. Whatever gets you out and about will be good medicine for your soul and lift your spirits. When I was nearing the end of college I started to form some new friendships with other girls who had just broken up with their BFs and we had a lot of fun being "single again". Remember that your life is just beginning and there are some many interesting adventures yet to happen for you! I wish I were in your shoes! It's a great time to be alive.

__________________
"I need compassion, understanding and chocolate." - NJB

katyg

i have felt like you many times, i was sent to an all girls school and so have terrible men skills and also, to be honest, i formed a real distrust of other women after being bullied. i find it hard to trust people (this has ruined my latest realtionship as he just gave up trying to convince me he loved me) and get paranoid. the best way i have found to cope with this is so:

i took up kickboxing, this gets me all excited and i get to hit things and meet new people! hurrah!

look after my friendships - i literally FORCE myself to keep in touch with my mates a lot, i got out sometimes, even when i'm not in the mood and i often find being out, meeting new faces, having a little dance, helps me forget my woes

and lastly - looking forward to my future, each day since i was dumped my ex, i wake up and think of him first, then, i take few minutes to think of all the things i want to get done that day and what im going to do with
my future....

a bit of positive thinking helps a lot.
i also really enjoyed a documentary 'what the bleep do we know' which was about quantum psychics (stay with me here..) it's really sweet, all about positive thinking! we're all in this together, don't give up, listen to 'move on up' by curtis mayfield, do the dishes and shake yer booty! you'll be ok xxx

shesus

This is a typical feeling I think around graduation time. I went through a horrible depression after I graduated college. I moved to a new town and had no friends except for my co-workers, who generally aren't really friends. I was engaged at the time, which helped make it a bit bearable, but he was 2.5 hours away so I was alone all week.

I was building on the depression then, but since I was alone it wasn't a big deal. Then we got married a year later after he graduated. The depression got worse and it effected our marriage. He forced me into counseling and it was the best thing I've ever done. I took Celexa for a year and went to therapy once or twice a week. I had many issues that stemmed from situations in my past and I also was feeling lonely because I had no friends but my husband.

I made an effort to make at least one friend and make a point to hang out with her at least once a week. This consisted of hanging out at her place, going to bars, going shopping, etc.

Then we moved again and found ourselves alone again. It takes awhile to make friends and you can't force it. You find them in the most strange ways.

Like others said you can join a club. I find that a stock answer, just like therapy is, but those are all we can say since we can't hang out with you. So, think positive thoughts and learn that you can't force things. The sooner you learn this the easier life will be.

Keep your chin up. Life only sucks as much as you think it does. A situation can be heaven or hell depending on your outlook.

__________________
Whatever did happen to your soul?
I heard you sold it

Choose Heaven for the weather and Hell for the company

Jennifer

Thank you, everyone. I'm feeling a bit better now than I was a week ago. I went out with my friends last night to a few bars. I'm so freaking awkward over the phone that I felt like I was imposing upon them by asking when they were going, but I forced myself through it and went with them. I had a fun time, but I still felt like I didn't belong because I sort of ended up just observing everything instead of actually participating in the conversation (I usually don't know who or what everyone else is talking about). Then afterwards, we went to a party at my friend's brother's house. I hardly knew anyone there, and the people I did know were wrapped up in conversations with the ones I didn't know. Instead of trying to get into the conversation, I ended up playing Guitar Hero in the corner by myself. Looking back, I should have actually tried to talk to the other people.

My friends are always busy during the actual week, so I can only see them on the weekends. I only have another 3 or 4 weekends left until I graduate (I haven't counted lately) so I've kind of accepted that this is a lost cause. I'm looking forward to hopefully making friends after I graduate and have a job somewhere. I did sort of have two real friends here, but one of them got a girlfriend so I hardly ever see him anymore. The other started commuting this year so I only see her during a class we have together. Everyone else I know is really nice, but again I feel like I don't belong because I hardly ever see them, so I'm not as close to them as they are to each other.

I only have a few more weeks of classes to make it through, and it shouldn't be any problem for me because I'm only taking 12 credits this semester (every semester before this I took anywhere from 16-20 credits). However, I've lost the ability to focus on anything. While I'm sitting in class I find myself getting easily distracted and not paying attention. While I'm trying to study, I find myself just sitting there for hours either thinking about random things, watching videos on YouTube, or otherwise wasting the time without getting anything productive done. I think I'll do alright in all of my classes, but it really worries me that I'm losing focus so badly.

In any case, I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing, but I feel perfectly fine right now despite how worried I was over not being able to study earlier this week, or how out of it I felt last night with my friends. I guess I'm too tired to feel bad right now

hunnychile

I once had a dear friend who said, "worry is such a waste of time. It's like borrowing trouble."

And in truth....I think it's one of the smartest statements anyone has ever said to me.

Have you considered talking to one of the guidence counselors on campus or a teacher/mentor whom you trust....about your feelings these days? Talking to someone who's been there and is trained to help might do a lot for you.

__________________
"I need compassion, understanding and chocolate." - NJB

Jennifer

Yes, I started going to one of the school's counselors. I've only had one visit so far, which was a few days after my boyfriend dumped me. I only got to talk for about half an hour, and it was just sort of explaining my situation. My appointment last week got cancelled because the counselor couldn't make it to the school (bad weather conditions). Hopefully my appointment tomorrow will work out...

In any case, I feel like my problem is I'm not worrying enough. I just don't care right now, about my classes or about finding a job after I graduate. If I was actually worried about it, I would have done something to fix it. Instead, I just have the vague feeling that I should be doing something, but I lack the energy to get it done.

hunnychile

Jen, hang in there and talk with your counselor again. Every visit will help get you more focused on solutions - not just problems.

It's okay to not know what the next step is right now. There is no time table you have to conform with (really)...and sometimes it does take time to even learn how you want to move forward. It's totally okay to just feel like you don't care. No life can be set up and planned in a day or a week...it's all a process.

Relax. Don't try to over think the next big step. Baby steps are goods!
One small victory at a time. You're rebuilding your self esteem and getting stronger and more clear each & every day. I feel an insight or two is coming your way.

Life is the journey....not the destination.

__________________
"I need compassion, understanding and chocolate." - NJB

lurkette

What a tough position to be in...you're at the end of a college career, so doing anything to make your situation better feels like a waste of time.

I would suggest finding something to get passionate about to carry you through the transition, and beyond. You sound really "shut down" about life, a place I've been off and on for, oh, about 30 years now and the hardest part is convincing yourself that anything you do is going to make a difference. Don't waste time convincing yourself...just get up and do something. You'll find that the energy and the passion will come after the fact. For now what it takes is a leap of faith. Find something that excites you and just get involved as much as possible!

I would also highly recommend seeking out a permanent therapist, preferably one who specializes in cognitive behavior therapy. A few things you've said triggered some concerns for me - you sound like you've internalized a lot of negative things about yourself, and it's time to let those go and re-learn how to think about yourself and your life. Do it now while you're young - the longer you wait, the more ingrained those habits of thought are going to be.

__________________
"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France

Jennifer

That is exactly how I feel.

I'm sort of intentionally feeding a mild obsession I have with a TV show in order to give myself something to focus on. I probably would have lost interest in the show naturally awhile back, but this way I have something to look forward to in the short-term.

I'm not sure what school of thought the school counselor is. I did learn a bit about cognitive therapy in my psychology class, which is what convinced me that at least not *all* counseling is pointless (I don't like the Freudian stuff...) I've been having these problems for years, so I'm sure it's not just medical student's disease, either.

During the second meeting with the counselor, he suggested putting me in contact with a psychiatrist to discuss the possibility of medication. I adamantly refused, but since then a few of my friends have talked me into going just to see what the psychiatrist says. My appointment is in two weeks, which only gives me two weeks until graduation. After that, I don't know what I'll do if I need medication. Whether the medicine works or not, I don't think my parents will react well to me using it. My mother doesn't even take her own blood pressure medication, let alone tolerate the idea of me taking medication for something like depression (I'm not trying to talk down to people who need medication for depression, I'm just trying to explain my mother's viewpoint that I'll have to deal with if I need it).

In any case, I'm feeling pretty good right now but I don't know how long it will last.

lurkette

Well, that's a start, but I had in mind something a little more...outgoing. Something that would get you engaged with the world and other people. Do you have any hobbies you're interested in? Causes you're all lit up about? Things you've wanted to do but have been putting off? I think you need something to take you out of your own head and focus your energy outward.

Out of curiosity, what are your plans for after college? Are you moving to a different city? Do you have a job lined up? Grad school? What's your degree in, and what field are you going to get into? Where are your friends going?

Okay, I wouldn't let myself be swayed by the opinion of a woman who refuses to take medicine for a diagnosed physical condition. Does she want to have a heart attack? Geez!

There are lots of opinions about medication for mental health disorders, and I'm on the fence about the issue myself. Here's my thinking:

1. There are some people for whom depression/anxiety/whatever is genuinely a chronic chemical imbalance. Almost pure brain chemistry.

2. There are a host of other people for whom depression/anxiety/whatever is a combination of cognitive processes that have resulted in a particular neurochemical reaction - the mental feeds the chemical and vice versa, and you've got yourself a nice, tight little vicious cycle.

3. There are other people for whom depression/anxiety/whatever is almost purely a matter of mental processes that are normal reactions to life events - people who are going through grief, divorce, stressful transitions, etc.

For people in category 1, medication is a necessity that lets their brain function normally. But most people fall into categories 2 or 3. For people in category 3, medication is usually inappropriate, IMHO. If you're just going through a rough spot, the medicine is unlikely to do much besides dampen the effect of emotions that are entirely appropriate to the situation. You'll get through it, and it's better to just learn to cope. However, there are some people for whom being in category 3 leads to a more chronic pattern of depression/anxiety/whatever and puts them into category 2. The problem is knowing which people those are and putting them on the meds to prevent them from sliding into chronic depression.

Now, for people in category 2 (which is where I think you fall), medication is a choice. You definitely need to re-wire your brain somehow. You've got some patterns of thought that produce a chemical reaction that brings you down, so to speak. Think about your mind/brain like a bunch of canals. Your consciousness is the water that carves the canals. You have some negative thoughts that have dug some pretty deep channels that are now the path of least resistance. What you need to do is carve some new canals with new thought patterns. Cognitive-behavior therapy is a really good tool for digging those new canals. And what medication can do is (metaphorically) make the stuff you're digging through softer so you can cut those new canals faster. You wouldn't pooh-pooh taking insulin to fix your blood chemistry; similarly, there should be no shame in taking medicine to fix your brain chemistry. Some people can manage their diabetes with diet and exercise, and some people can fix their depression with changes in behavior and thinking. But if you can't, the medication is there to help.

But back to exercise: There are ways to change your neurochemistry without medication. Exercise as been shown to be just as effective as Prozac at lessening depressive symptoms. No joke. 20 minutes of moderate exercise (like fast walking) 3 times a week. Both medication and exercise will take about 6 weeks to take effect. The problem is getting motivated to exercise when you're essentially dealing with a disorder that saps your motivation. Which is why many people rely on the medication instead.

My advice would be: while you're feeling pretty good, start doing some things that will keep you on an even keel long-term. Start exercising if you don't already; get involved in something that you look forward to and that puts you in contact with people on a regular basis; and get thee to a cognitive-behavior therapist.

__________________
"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France

Jennifer

I don't really care about anything that's more outgoing. I wasn't allowed out when I was younger, so I got used to relying on hobbies like videogames and TV shows, and now I don't want to give them up.

I don't know what I'm doing after college. I've kind of resigned myself to having to move back in with my parents at least long enough to learn how to drive. I have a double major in math and biology and I am interested in laboratory research, although I'm not even enthusiastic about that anymore. Some of my friends are staying in college for another year or two. As for the others, I have no idea what they are doing.

It's not so much allowing my opinion to be swayed as dreading how I'm going to approach the topic with her. If I do need medication, I'll only have two weeks here before I have to go back home. Once I'm home, I can imagine all sorts of grief that she'd give me. I am rather nervous because I don't think trying medication for the first time in an unmonitored situation with my mother constantly aggravating me is very healthy I don't think she'd let me get a therapist, and I am not independent enough yet to get one on my own.

I agree with your analysis of where I am (category 2, as you called it). I'm a bit scared of how medication will affect me, and I'd rather get along without it if I can. In any case, maybe I'm just getting worked up over nothing. Perhaps the psychiatrist will say I don't need medication after all. As for exercise, I get bored too easily. Repetitive motions lose my interest too quickly. Plus I'm lazy and don't want to bother, even though I know I should. My good mood disappeared already. Now I'm back to feeling neutral.

lurkette

Okay, so you're not interested in engaging with other people, you have no clear direction, you're resigned to living with your parents, who aggravate you and apparently dictate your actions, and you're not interested in doing something that will help you feel better because you're "lazy and don't want to bother"?

At some point you're going to have to take responsibility for your own life and well-being. You're the one who can make you feel better, and you seem to have no interest in doing so. You know what to do, but you're not interested in doing it. You might ask yourself, "why?"

College is over, hon. You have to grow up sometime.

__________________
"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France

Jennifer

Yeah, that's pretty much where I am right now. I started crying when I read it, but it's true. If I knew why, I wouldn't have this problem.

Supple Cow

I'm just chiming in here to say that there is no magic divide between needing the medicine and not needing it. Brain chemistry is a funky thing and so many things can be at play. I am realizing (due to my current circumstances) that when I decided I suddenly didn't "need" medication anymore (or ever) a few years ago, it didn't mean that I was chemically predisposed to depression. It didn't really strike me because I exercised here and there (which helped chemically) and I also had a new lease on life because that was when I decided it wasn't anybody else's fault anymore.

You can choose to be unhappy. You can feel that way even when you have no reason to be (usually chemicals do that). Or, (and this is most common) some elaborate combination of both.

With my sprained ankle, I am whining a lot more than I ever liked to think I was capable of, but that's because the injury has robbed me of my happy drug of choice: I can't exercise sufficiently because all the cardiovascular exercise I have ever heard about requires use of your ankle. I don't always feel safe. I often wonder why life has to be so hard. But you know what? The number one most effective thing of all the the methods that have soothed my depressive tendencies was taking responsibility for myself. No one can take that away from you - you are always in charge of you and you always will be.

"If I knew why, I wouldn't have this problem."

The why is that it's scary and hard! But there's a big difference between hard things that hurt you and hard things that build you up. I think deep down you know the difference, but you are paralyzed with fear. We can't really help you here because our help only goes skin deep. You can help yourself best - from the inside.

Jennifer

But I never was. I never had to (or was allowed to) do anything real. I can't cook, I can't drive, I don't know how to balance a checkbook, I've never had a job, I don't know how to make or keep friendships outside of my immediate family, I have no real-world experiences. None. In effect, for my whole life so far I've been trained to be thoroughly dependent upon other people for my survival, and now that I'm trying to break free I have no idea where to start. I feel overwhelmed.

Edit: And I know I'm just making excuses, but I did do exercise on a regular basis one semester when I took an aerobics class. It didn't really do anything for my mood, which is where my lazy, "It doesn't work for me so why bother?" attitude comes from.

Supple Cow

My point remains. Don't try to pass this off on me or the people who raised you. Everybody learns sometime. You're the only one who gets to decide when you really want to start. Mistakes are how people learn. Just pick something and go. You'll pick the rest up later.

abaya

Well, at least you're trying to start. Just that in itself means that you're on the right path. Feeling overwhelmed is normal. However, whining about the negatives (e.g. "I can't... I can't...") is tempting, but completely and totally unnecessary for your well-being. The more you just get out and do things, take some risks, see what happens, make mistakes, learn new things... the better off you'll be.

I don't think you're nearly as bad off as you'd like to believe. You're on the right track. Just pick up some speed and do something new every day... even if it's something tiny that no one else will notice. Try to make yourself a sandwich. Boil an egg. Check out some job ads. Just one small thing every day. See what happens. Don't make so many demands on yourself. Just one thing.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

lurkette

All the more reason to break free! Living with your family is only going to reinforce this pattern. You say you can't cook, can't drive, can't balance a checkbook. But you can learn. You got a college degree - you're clearly intelligent enough to learn these things. Cooking is nothing more than following directions and learning from trial and error. Driving is a learned skill. Balancing a checkbook is just math, and if you get software like Quicken or something, it's not even that - it's just clicking little boxes.

The answer to your problem of not knowing how to do things and having no real world experiences is not to continue to avoid doing things and having experiences. Get out there! Try stuff! Try and fail, try and succeed, at least you'll be doing something!

Find a job, get a place of your own (with a roommate, if necessary), start thinking about how you want your life to be. Not how your parents want your life to be. So you've been stifled all your life. You can either take the easy way out - continue to be stifled, which is a slow, painful, spirit-dulling road - or you can jump off what looks like a giant cliff but is really just a little step and start living your own life.

The same way that drugs alone don't work for most people, exercise alone doesn't always work. It might change the brain chemistry to make your thought patterns more malleable, but you still have to work at changing your thought patterns. Hence my recommendation that you go see a cognitive therapist. If you can't do that, find the book "Feeling Good" by David Burns http://www.amazon.com/Feeling-Good-T.../dp/0380810336
and the accompanying workbook.

You're at a really important crossroads right now, and I encourage you to think HARD about which path you're going to take. One way is safe and depressing, the other way is scary and free. But it's only scary now. Take that path and pretty soon you adapt and it's just...your life. YOUR life.

P.S. If you don't know where to start, ask for help. Ask a friend, ask a counselor, ask a professor. There are no consequences. If they say they don't have time or don't know how to help you, that means NOTHING about you. Move on and ask someone else. You're scared of all this stuff that's totally in your head. People's opinions and thoughts are not knives and bullets. You are safer than you think. And most people really LOVE to be needed and helpful, even if they pretend otherwise.

__________________
"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France

Jennifer

Sorry, I wasn't trying to blame you for anything That one line just sort of cut to the heart of the matter -- I don't feel like I'm in control of my own life.

I know that I'm not really bad off. It just feels that way because I'm kind of trapped for another month without being able to practice any of those things. I can't drive and I don't have access to a car, so I can't learn for at least a month (that's when I graduate). Since I don't have the car, I can't get to the grocery store to get food to practice cooking. It's just so painfully frustrating to know that I need to learn all of these things but I can't do anything about it for the next month.

I'm working on it. So far the counselor hasn't been much help. I am making more progress with the career services center, though. The guy is supposed to help me start looking for a job next week. If I can get a job I'd like, then I'll just accept it, get an apartment nearby, and see what happens.

Also, I'm still really worried about the possibility of medication. I just talked it over with my father and he said I absolutely should not take medication. He used to work in a mental hospital as a computer programmer and he said that they don't really know how the anti-depressent medication like Prozac works and it'll just mess up my brainchemistry and make me dependent upon it. I'm still going to the psychiatrist, but I really hope he says I don't need medication.

Supple Cow

Jennifer, medication or not, you are still going to have to do things for yourself at some point. You say that you don't feel in control, but it doesn't really matter how you feel in the end. I'm not sure that anybody's ever really completely in control, but think about those people you consider to be in control of their lives. They don't get that way because some magical fairy godmother gives them control. They take control.

About the medicine - I don't think that's the kind of thing you become physically dependent on the way you do with stuff like narcotics (I mean, maybe, but I don't think so). It strikes me more as a thing you get addicted to emotionally or mentally. The doctor will never tell you you NEED it. They will just say that it might help if there are no other options. But hey, maybe you need to get this out of your system like I did. Even if you have some quack who tells you that you NEED medication, it's not going to make a lick of difference in the long run. You'll still feel all the things you feel now, but maybe they'll be slightly duller. Plus, you may have some other funky side effects to add to the worries.

You have to do something. Anything. You take control and make your life whatever you can make it. Worry about making it want you want later, when you actually have an idea of what you want. Honestly, I think the medicine is probably beside the point for you. From what you've written, it doesn't sound like you're completely unable to function or in danger of taking your life. You just sound like a scared kid. Try to just do one thing a day that scares you, but that you know you should be doing - even something as small as making yourself a grilled cheese sandwich. Every day it will seem a little less terrifying, and eventually you can do even more things like that.

Remember - depression is not like an infection. You can't just take some pills for a week until it clears up. You have to find the right solution for you and keep at it every day.

Jennifer

Sorry to whine here again, but I just feel so trapped. I've been back home with my parents for two months because I have nowhere else to go. They've refused to let me look for a job until I learn how to drive because there's no way for me to get to the job. However, they've also refused to teach me how to drive because they're convinced I'll crash, and they refused to let me go to a driving school because my mother thinks the driving instructor will kidnap me. On top of that, every few days my mother starts yelling at me that I'm useless because I don't have a job and she wants me out of the house. I'm not suicidal, but ever since I stupidly told them that I visited the school psychiatrist, she actually tells me to commit suicide every so often. My life has no purpose right now, and I usually sleep more than I need to because I don't want to get up, but that just makes her yell at me more. I don't know what to do. I want to get away so badly but I don't know how. I did try to apply for some jobs anyway, but I haven't heard back yet. I had my resume on Monster.com, but my dad went ballistic when he found out and made me take it down.

Adri

Oh, you poor thing. *hug* You really are trapped right now, aren't you? It's easy for those of us who aren't in your situation to sit back and say "you've got to do something for yourself", but it's a lot harder when you're the person in question. I, too, grew up with really strict parents who tried to shelter me from everything, but by the time I had been in college for a couple of years, I guess they decided to let me sink or swim with what they'd taught me, and I swam. It sounds like your parents are still unwilling to let go of you as their child, and allow you to be an adult.

Do you mind if I ask what ethnicity/religion you are? Not because I'm going to typecast you, but because it might help us/me understand your situation a little better. I've made somewhat of a study of comparative cultures and if nothing else, I learned that the answer to one question can change dramatically depending on who you ask.

That said, let's analyze this thread, shall we?

You are socially crippled, as you do not have the people skills to easily make friends/maintain relationships. This is due to the fact that you were so sheltered as a child, you were not allowed to learn these skills.

You can't drive, cook, or balance a checkbook. So you're incapable of caring for yourself as an adult. This is due to the fact that you were so sheltered as a child and young adult, you were not allowed to learn these skills.

You are unable to improve your own situation, because you are so sheltered as an adult, you aren't allowed to take any of the steps necessary to do so.

I think there's a common theme... you're depressed, essentially, because you're not allowed to become UNdepressed. The problem, I believe, is your parents. You might be one of those rare souls who actually CAN blame almost everything wrong with them on their upbringing.

However, now is not the time to give up, now is the time that you actually CAN make a difference! For the first time in your whole life, you have the power to make your own decisions. Here are some thoughts for you:



As a human being:
1. You are allowed to look for a job. If you don't want your resume on the internet, you can still browse job listings on monster, craigslist, etc, and send your resume to individual jobs that you are interested in, rather than just leaving your resume up there to hope someone will find it. That's not really a good way to find a job anyway.

If you parents try to stop you from looking for a job, tell them to fuck off. You're an adult, and you're allowed to make yourself self-sufficient.

2. You are allowed to remain alive and healthy. Mental health is important. You are allowed to find your own therapist and visit him or her, and take any medication that you and your therapist deem appropriate for your situation. The time when you parents had a say in what you do to yourself medically ended, if not the day you stopped visiting a pediatrician, then at least the day you graduated from college and became an adult.

Your mother is NOT allowed to tell you to commit suicide. Even if she is joking, you should, calmly and rationally, tell her next time she says it, to fuck off.

3. You are allowed to learn the skills necessary to become a functioning adult. You are allowed to go to a driving school. Your driving instructor will NOT kidnap you, assuming that you choose a reputable driving school with some modicum of credibility and a brick-and-mortar address. You might crash your car a few times (most people do), and heck, you might even die in said crash. But you're allowed, as a human, to find out if driving is something you might be able to do.

You are allowed to learn how to cook. Watch the Food network, check out a book at the library, learn everything you can about the conceptual aspects of cooking before you ever even try to do it yourself. You'll find that it's not as hard as you think. Learning how to prepare food in order to keep yourself alive is not something your parents are allowed to keep from you.


My suggestion: Take your mom's advice and leave the house. I honestly can't see things getting WORSE for you if you do that. Your parents are the ones dragging you down (and the ones who may need the medication). Once you escape them, once you're out on your own and are forced to learn to do what must be done in order to survive, you will be on the road to a much happier existence.

abaya

I would move out and cut off all contact with your parents until THEY grow up and see you as a person, not an infant. That could take months, years... but it won't happen until you stand up to them and make your own decision against them. If you wait for them to come around... no, it's never going to happen, and you will continue to be miserable.

I don't know how the logistics of that would work out... but can you ask someone for a loan so you can get an apartment or room within walking/bus distance to a workplace (hell, even if you have to work at Starbucks or McDonald's for a short term, at least you'd be on your own)? A sympathetic relative or friend?

Then DECLARE YOUR INDEPENDENCE, get out of there, find a short-term job/apartment until you get on your feet... eat ramen noodles and cereal every day if you have to (hey, I still do that, in grad school!)... and if your parents don't like it? That is THEIR problem. It really is. You will learn all those skills that they have denied you, as soon as you get our on your own and start living. Your parents can go to hell in the meantime. I know that sounds harsh, but seriously... I had/still have an overprotective mother too, and at some point you JUST have to get in their face and piss them off, and let them ignore you until they get over it. It's their responsibility to deal with their own reaction to your decision, not yours.

Your job, your ONLY responsibility, is to take care of your own well-being and life course. If your parents are hurting you (and clearly, they are)... then that's not taking care of you, and borders on emotional abuse. You need to move away from them, and let them freak out and go apeshit and all the rest... and just walk away. Seize your life and make something of it; don't let them push you to hate yourself and being alive. You deserve much more than that.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Sultana

The advice you are getting here is dead on. Stop saying "They won't let me." They are not physically restraining you. You are allowing them. If someone wouldn't let you eat, would you just sit there and sigh and say, "Oh, I really wish I could eat, but they won't let me"? NO. You go and eat, and think to yourself how crazy they are fro trying to keep you from doing what you want.

Go live your live. Your parents are a big boy and girl. They'll live.

Time to grow some ovaries, my dear.

__________________
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath.
At night, the ice weasels come." -

Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.

lurkette

Get out. Get out now.

Nobody should have to live with what sounds like truly mentally imbalanced parents. She TELLS you to commit suicide? WTF! The driving instructor will kidnap you?!

Leave. Now. Walk down to McDonalds and submit an application. Go crash with a friend until you are on your own feet. This is a toxic environment and you need to get out, for your own safety.

__________________
"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France

Jennifer

Thanks, everybody *hugs* I know your advice is dead-on. I would have probably moved out already, except I have no friends or family (I was never really close with anyone at high-school, and I don't think I'm close enough with anyone from college to just show up and ask if they want to rent an apartment with me. They didn't even want to dorm with me in college. They were really nice to me, but they kept making excuses until I dropped the topic and gave up. As for my family, the only relatives I know outside of my immediate family is my uncle's family, and I've only ever seen them a few times and they didn't really like us).

Anyhow, I'm trying to get a little more aggressive with my parents and my father finally took me out to teach me how to drive and he seemed quite impressed. He said I'm actually pretty good and I just need practice, and he was so convinced I'd crash the old car because my mother had so much trouble with it that he thought it was undrivable for short people (my mother is short, and I'm a few inches shorter than her). I can get along with my father pretty well as long as he isn't worn out from fighting with my mother. When he is, then he tends to lash out at everyone and he knows just what to say to really hurt people. He apologizes later, but it still puts me through all sorts of mood swings.

American My parents are of Italian, Irish, French, and German descent. They both were raised Catholic, but my mother's faith lapsed and my father's an outright atheist. I'm agnostic myself because I don't know what the truth is. My family doesn't have any contact with other people outside of school, work, or shopping. No religious or cultural ties either. In addition, my mother actively prevented anyone from coming over and violating the sanctity of her "clean" house. I wanted friends when I was little, but my mother refused to let them over to the house so I just sort of stopped asking, and now she claims I never asked and it was all my fault for being anti-social. I doubt myself enough that I might believe her, but my brothers agree with me that I was remembering correctly.

Even if that's true (it probably is), I think that I've allowed this to continue by not resisting enough. I think that after getting thwarted enough times, I just sort of gave up and accepted that everything was out of my control. For example, when I was talking to people in high school, I had no idea what they were talking about when they were complaining about their curfews and such. It hadn't even occurred to me that a child would be out of the house without a parent. But even when I did learn about it, I still didn't do anything. I just knew that my parents wouldn't go along with it so I didn't try. Plus, my father has a habit of being really nice and then turning it around at the worst moment to try to make me feel guilty. I feel awful saying this, but at times it seems like I can't think of a single nice thing he did for me that he didn't later turn around and point to in the middle of an argument, as if the only reason he had done it was so that he'd be able to say that I was being ungrateful for all he had done for me. Plus, if it was a material thing he got, he threatened to break it to get us to do what he wanted. I hate chicken. I don't know if it's psychological or physical, but it makes me sick. We used to have chicken 3-5 times a week for dinner, and every single time I'd refuse to eat it with tears streaming down my face while my father went off breaking the things in my room (my TV was the usual target--I don't know how it survived as long as it did, but towards the end I had to reach through a crack in the face plate and flick the parts inside in order to change the channel). My younger brothers don't really have thriving social lives, but they are allowed to go over to a few of their friends' houses occassionally since my dad's medicine for ulcerative colitis has actually started working and he can drive them back and forth without constantly needing a bathroom. So anyhow, now I wonder if I had asked for more, would I have gotten it? I might have. As it was, all I asked for was to go to the school's math club, which required my dad picking me up only a few times during the year, and I felt guilty enough about that. What the hell was wrong with me?

Thanks. I know this, but for some reason I'm still worried about what to decide because I don't know the first thing about renting an apartment (at college, I stayed in the school's dormitories because no one wanted to live with me). I feel like this is the first real step I need to take, although hopefully I can get my driver's license first now that my dad is trying to teach me.


Right. I've been looking on my own, on and off, but everything I was looking at required years of experience. The few jobs I found that didn't, I applied for but I assume I didn't get them since I didn't hear back yet. My mother actually found out from one of her coworkers how her daughter got a job that I was looking at, so I'll look at that (assuming she's in the mood to give it to me...I didn't even find out she had done it until she used it against me in a rant about how useless and ungrateful I am)

True, but the funny thing about the situation is that while I am in my parents' house, there's no way I'd be able to get to a counselor (I have no transportation, and they gave me so much hell over visiting the school's free counselor that I have no idea what they'd do if they found out I paid to see one, and they WOULD find out because I've never once in my life left the house on my own, so they'd know something was up). Once I'm out of my parents' house, I won't need one.

I know. I was a bit depressed and crying when she said it the first time. She actually had a bottle of aspirin and wanted me to eat it all to put her out of her misery (she did phrase it that way, saying that killing myself would make her less miserable). I got so angry that I said I wanted a knife instead, and she said no, that would be too messy. Every now and then, she starts a fight with me over nothing (like if I left the fan on in my room while I went outside to see what my brothers were up to) and she'll yell at me to go commit suicide when she's lost the argument. Sometimes my brothers will joke at me that at least they aren't going to kill themselves (implying that I am, which I'm not). And for a good month after finding out I visited the psychiatrist, my father kept saying I was too stupid to live, and asking if I wanted to end up homeless on the streets because I gave all my money to a psychiatrist. He'd just bring it up out of the blue and ruin my mood even though it had nothing to do with whatever we were talking about. He stopped doing that after a while, though.

I'm trying to work on that Hopefully my driving lessons with my father will continue to go smoothly. I was actually doing pretty well, and he didn't yell at me. Although he does have the extremely annoying tendency to panic and tell me to do something, and then once he's calmed down he gets annoyed and then says that was the wrong thing to do. For example, there was a parked car on my side of the street, and then on the other side of the street two people were walking taking up the whole lane. I moved to go around the car, keeping my eye on the people, and I had plenty of room to go. But then my dad said to stop, so I did, and then he got annoyed and said I should have sped up so that I'd have passed the car before the people got close, which is what I was doing before he told me to stop.

That I will have to work on once I've got my own place. There's no way I'd be able to buy food or cook here on my own.

I know, I just wish I had a clue where to start. When I applied for one of the jobs, I looked for apartments online that were nearby and they were all pretty expensive. I don't know if that was normal, or even if the search thing I found on google was reputable. I've never dealt with this before and I've got no clue.

Yes, I am convinced this is the truth. I've always been a fast learner once I'm forced to learn, but until I actually face that sink-or-swim moment I doubt myself and fear that I can't do it. It's like I know that as soon as I manage to get out, everything else will fall into place. I'm just having so much trouble taking that first step.

Thank you

Actually, I might I never ate anything without my parents' permission. I noticed that when I had to briefly fend for myself during summer classes at college, I actually forgot to eat most of the time because I was so unused to getting my own food. (I was okay during the full year because I was used to cafeterias, though) I actually did visit one of my friends over Thanksgiving break last year, and her mother commented repeatedly that I needed to be much more aggressive in getting my own food. I just kind of stood there dazed watching my friend and her sisters totally ravage the food supply and I had trouble making myself realize that I should just grab what I wanted and eat. So I kind of have been trained to starve unless I'm fed (my parents never starved me, but ever since I'm back home I'm kind of confused about what I'm supposed to do for food since my dad has finally taken into account that I hate chicken so I don't have to eat it, but then I'm left on my own because my mother is a bitch who can't make up her mind. She says she's not hungry to my father so he doesn't make her anything but then she goes and eats what he had set aside for me so I've got nothing). Some times my dad gets annoyed at me for not having fed myself, but then other times he gets annoyed at me because I did feed myself when he had planned to make something for me. I can never tell what to do, and I don't get much exercise anyway since I'm never out of the house, so I haven't really been eating much lately.

I've never heard that phrase before. I like it

Yeah, you're right. I just need to figure out where to go and I am out of here.

Sultana

Babe, I feel for you. I was in a similar (but not so bad) situation growing up, myself.

So, today's advice from me to you is this: Become a single-minded animal about getting that driver's license! Do WHATEVER you have to do (and I mean *whatever*) to get that. Tell your parents its a way for you to do all the running around for them and take care of them the way you should have been all this time, and haven't, because you're a bad person (and of course this is a total lie, but it doesn't matter. We are talking SURVIVAL here).

Don't let them know how important this is to you.

Then you can progress to your next step, which is getting out of the house. If you have to leave everything behind (except for your driver's license, ha!), be ready. Contact local homeless shelters, tell them about your situation and see if they can help you.

At some point though, you gotta ask yourself...even if they find out you are leaving, what's the worst that could happen? They yell at you? Say mean things? Who cares? They do that all the time, and they won't ever stop. There is NOTHING you can do to make them stop, ever. So stop trying, and at least you'll be yelled at for making your own decisions.

The thing is you gotta want to do this, rather than sit in a puddle of your parent's emotional vomit, and wishing for something better to fall on you from the sky, OK? Because you are the ONLY ONE who can change your life.

You got the desire. That's half the battle. Now go make your way.

__________________
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath.
At night, the ice weasels come." -

Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.

lurkette

A gentleman reader wishes to suggest [link]http://www.craigslist.com[/link] as a possible resource for jobs, apartments, etc.

As for taking that first step, you might try starting at a women's shelter or women's resource center. If the person treating you this way was a partner and not a parent, it would come close to being an abusive relationship. Emotionally abusive, certainly. The people at one of these places can help you arrange a temporary living situation, counseling, and job services. You just need someone to point the way, and that's what they're there for.

__________________
"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France

Midnight

*bump*

Any updates on Jen?

I read the thread today (I haven't been around here long) and had a few things to say and some advice but didnt know if she was still around and reading.

amonkie

Go ahead and post them - this may be just the thing she needs to come back!

If not .. there's been many times where I wasn't the one that started a thread reaching out, but the information and advice contined within was directly applicable to me as well

__________________
Calling from deep in the heart, from where the eyes can't see and the ears can't hear, from where the mountain trails end and only love can go... ~~~ Three Rivers Hare Krishna

Jennifer

I'm still here The last month or so has been roughly the same pattern (my family fighting with me and each other for no real reason, me getting really stressed out over it, and then the next day they act like nothing happened). There's one important exception--I finally heard back from one of the many places I applied to. I went in for an interview and I think I made a really good impression because they want me to come in for another interview next week. I really hope I get that job. Earlier in the week, my brother got me an interview at a place near where he works, and they seemed interested in hiring me too. However, I was supposed to study something they sent me and e-mail them in a few days, which I did, but they never responded. This other place seems a lot nicer, and the guy does reply to my e-mails so I think it will be better. Since I was finally invited for a job interview somewhere, my dad has stopped picking on me and he's been defending me when my mother tries to start a fight with me, so it's been less stressful over the past week or so than usual I was planning to post in a week after I either got the job (to thank everyone and let everyone know that things were getting better) or to ask for more advice if things got worse. Since you asked now, though, I figured I may as well post even if it's just to say not much has changed just yet but it seems like it will in the immediate future (Also, I have a little bit of insomnia which is why I'm posting at 3 AM, but I'm going to try to get back into a normal sleep cycle in anticipation of having a job to go to)

Midnight

*hugs* well we are all rooting for you Jennifer.

Heep your chin up. you have family here that will always be around to talk to

LiBan

Hi, Jennifer and company. I am very glad to hear that you have job opportunities. Best of luck with those.

I want to say that I can relate to some of what you have been going through. My mother is controlling and abrasive. I was grounded all through middle and high school for never being able to pull my math grade up above a C average. She became very cruel. A few times she simply told me that I was stupid and would not amount to much. One time she told me "at this rate you will never have a house of your own unless you marry a guy and have his babies for him."

After moving to college housing it became easier to tip-toe around her demands and expectations, but as graduation draws near (December for me) she seems to push at me harder. She interprets any show of independence on my part as an attack on her.

This morning, I got tired of being told to stop being so defensive all the time after being yelled at. I just stood up and said that I would cut my holiday weekend short and go back to school right then. The screaming started at that point and I was accused of being disrespectful and ungrateful. I finally told her that it's hard to show respect to someone who speaks to me with such disrespect. Upon citing the incidents where I was called stupid, told I would not ever have a home of my own, and even a few times where she expressed no pride or encouragement in a semester where I achieved all A marks except for a C mark in a math class...she told me that I had made it all up. She said that I have a "fantasy brain" and that I am "always making up memories." She basically told me that she doesn't believe that I will succeed if I don't start working for the goals that she has set for me.

I simply called her a liar and left. My step-dad has been very supportive of me the last few months. He told me that he would send me a check this week to get me through until my next paycheck, which was a month delayed. He's told me that he understands my needing to stand up for myself. That makes it easier, but it's hard for me to come around to the fact that I will most likely never have my mother's approval. I was the only child of a single mother until she married when I was 10, and it feels as if the day I turned 14 her whole opinion of me changed. Instead of being the encouraging and loving mother who would talk things out with me, she was suddenly suspicious and disappointed all of the time. It is hard to think that I might have to start my adult life without love and support from the woman I adored as a child.

It has been encouraging, in a sad way, to read this thread and see that someone else is struggling with a parent who doesn't seem to believe that their daughter can be a functioning and successful adult. It was also encouraging to see that some of you advised Jennifer to simply stand up to her parents and leave. I want to do that. I am beginning to do that.

I am terrified. It is frightening to live under the wings of someone with such a strong will and then have to fight your way free into a world you feel unprepared for. I don't know if I can make it without having to tuck tail and crawl home one sad day, but I want it. I want to get out. I want to make my own mistakes and learn from them and become a real person, rather that one who feels as if she is being kept hollow and perpetually waiting for the dreams and expectations of others.

Jennifer, you have made great strides by proving that you can drive. You have made great strides by garnering the attention of employers. Whether or not you get the jobs, you have proven that you are a viable candidate. Someone believes that you are worth hiring. You are someone worthy of spending attention and time on. It sounds as if you have earned your father's respect. It sounds as if you brother knows you to be honest and believes in you enough to stake his reputation on you by recommending you for a job.

I do not know you, but as someone who can relate to the position that you are in, I am very proud of the steps you have taken and the progress that you have made.

Please don't give up. Look how far you have already come. I hope you keep us updated.

Jennifer

Thank you so much for the words of encouragement. I hope your situation works out well too, LiBan *hug*

I went to the interview last week and I thought it went well. However, they said they'd call me in a few days, but they haven't yet. Then today my mother found their ad back in the paper for the job I applied for, so I guess they weren't interested in me. And now my mother is absolutely convinced that the reason I didn't get the job is because I truthfully told the interviewer that I am learning how to drive and my father would gladly drive me to work until I get my license. So my mother is halfway angry at me for telling the truth and halfway angry at the company because she thinks it's discrimination since the job doesn't require traveling.

Now for some positive news: One of my brother's friends' parents has a job putting on shows for children. She's temporarily hired me to do arts and crafts type stuff, helping her make her costumes. I enjoy doing that, but I feel a little guilty because honestly I think her pay rate for me is too generous, but I guess that's for her to decide. In addition, one of my teachers from elementary school told us that it wouldn't take too much for me to get certified as a teacher, so that's something to look into (if only I could get over my nervousness about public speaking...)

creepysusie

I completely understand where you are coming from. I grew up in a paranoid asian family where it was really hard to make friends. But since graduating from highschool, I learned something very valuable about myself that can be helpful to you.
I put on a "facade" of who I want to be when I meet new people. Technically I am not "being someone else" because this person is who I want to be. It's kind of the idea of pretending to be a braver person in order to become a braver person.
I made many friends in university and I never really have to be someone else because once you by pass that initial stage and they have befriended you, it's almost locked in.
But by all means, in order for this to work, you have to go out. Join clubs. Find some sort of organization that means a lot to you. Go to the women's center at the school. There are so many resources at colleges and universities that should not be overlooked.

Jennifer

Thank you for your advice, but my problem is that I just graduated university last May. I wasted too many opportunities in retrospect. I was finally starting to open up and socialize and then it was all over and now I'm not close enough to my college friends to keep in contact with them (I talk to them online occassionally, but the conversation always dies because we don't have much to say beyond, "Hello, how are you?" ) The one friend I have been keeping in contact with, I've sort of fallen out of contact with lately because I'm at work during the times when I used to call him.

I'm not sure if it's a good thing or a bad thing (probably good) that lately I've been spending most of my waking time at my new job doing mostly sewing and weaving. I go to my boss's house in the afternoon, spend all night doing arts-and-crafts type jobs for her, eat dinner there, work some more, come home, waste a few hours online, and then go to sleep to do the same thing the next day. At least this is an improvement because I'm doing something productive with myself instead of stressing out that I can't make any progress. However, this job is probably temporary and I still need to find a day job, so to speak, and learn to drive but I haven't had time because I'm tired from working so much and I'm afraid I'd crash the car if I try to drive in that state.

I also read about a vitamin that is supposed to help depressed people, called Sam-E. It seems over-priced to me, but I decided to buy one bottle (which lasts 45 days) and see if it helps any. Has anyone here heard of this? I just started taking it yesterday so I obviously don't expect results so soon, but I was wondering if I can expect to know if it works for me before the 45 days is up. Thanks

creepysusie

It sounds like you have a lot on your plate right now.

a good method of meeting new people is just going to your friend's place, the one you usually call, and hang out with some of his friends. With that, you can network with other people. I think that it is great that you are so nice to do soem arts and crafts stuff for your boss, but you have to think about yourself as well. You need you time. and considering the strain you seem to be putting yourself in, you need to relax a bit. There is more to life than just work.

If you need to talk to me, you know who I am and you can message me here or what not.

I do not know much about the Sam-E, but I hope you find the advice and help you need.