ChadB

Hi, I wasn't sure where this post should go.

My wife and I have been married for 17 years (since we were 19). The last 9 years have not been so good. I was focusing on my career, depressed, and was very distant from her and the kids (2 girls). Earlier this year we talked about getting a divorce. At first I was fine with it but then one night 3 weeks ago it was like I got a wake up call. I could finally see what I was losing and who I was hurting. This was my best friend and lover what on earth was I doing?!? I told her I wanted to try and work it out and I completely changed my life and personality. We are seeing a marriage counselor now but I fear it may be too late. She says I'm now being the man she always wished I would have been but we have so much history she doesn't think she can get her love for me back. I'm desperate to get us back together and make the rest of our life as it should be, happy. I owe her more happiness than I can ever pay back but I want to try anyway. She currently doesn't like me to hug or kiss her, she says she isn't ready for that. I've tried everything to show her my love, sending flowers, sharing the load of the daily tasks, encouraging her career achievements, scheduling getaway family weekends, and just plain telling her I love her (which she says she doesn't believe yet). I don't know what else to do. I guess it just takes time but I'm in a state of panic. I can't work or sleep thinking about it. I just want to scoop her up and hug her as hard as I can, saying, "I'm sorry" endlessly.

If anyone out there has any suggestions on how to help mend this great wound I've caused please reply. Ladies and you give me some insight?

Thank you

JustJess

Actually, I think you are doing everything you can be doing. Make sure that when you talk to her about all this stuff, you are honest and take responsibility for how things went downhill. Take her through the mental pathways you traveled to get here from there. That might help her believe you, that you're sincere.

One thing you should learn to embrace: if you truly, truly love her, you want her to be happy as much as you want to be happy yourself. You cannot force a person to love you back and be happy again. So make sure she knows (if it's true, that is) that you will do whatever it takes to make her and your family happy again. If that means letting her go, you will do that too. But not without trying everything else first.

Give her some time. It's going to take a lot longer than 3 weeks to undo 9 years. Lots. Like a year or two. Hunker down - this is a seige, not a pitched battle. Be consistent, and only do/say/act on things that are TRUE and SINCERE. After all this... neither of you deserve any less.

Good luck.

__________________
My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

Jinn

My god, I don't think anything truer could be said about a relationship than that.

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"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

Toaster126

You can't make people change how they feel. You can only give them the oppourtunity to do so.

__________________
"The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand)
"The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

Cynthetiq

You can only do what is the next right steps, and then let it go.

The path is what it is, and you can only accept what is currently happening that you cannot control.

Key to Serenity

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

maleficent

your relationship didn't get to the state it's in overnight, that developed over time... it's not going to be fixed overnight, that is going to take time...

She hasn't packed her bags and left, so you're still in it... i'd say just keep doing what you're doing and being honest in counseling... patience is what will get you there...

__________________

Toaster126

For the record, I disagree with everything here on a fundamental level. You don't need to accept things, nor should you. There is nothing noble in accepting things. There is something noble in working towards your goals. I'm just saying you can't make other people think differently. You can only give them the oppourtunity to.

__________________
"The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand)
"The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

savvypup

Wow Chadb! I'm so sorry to hear this. But yes, this has been happening over such a significant period of time that it's going to take a lot of time to make amends. But it takes 2 to tango right? And you've been married a long time too. People do change.

Have you told her how you're feeling and what you've now realised? She's obviously very hurt, but she wouldn't have stayed around if she didn't truly love you. Unless it's for comfort - is this how you're feeling? You need to let her know that it is not for this reason if that's the case. Best of Luck ......... if this is truly what you want!!

__________________

ciao bella!

genuinegirly

awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

Write her a note that says exactly what you wrote here.
Keep up the counseling. Do your best to look at the little improvements. Spend time enjoying your wife and daughters' company. You're doing everything right... just realize you will have to keep it up a long time. She has some healing to do. Be sure to give her the space she needs to do it.

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

Cynthetiq

If you read the WHOLE page you'd see something else that acceptance doesn't mean that you lay down and don't do anything about things.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

ChadB

Thanks everyone for the support. I have told her how I feel but I don't think she believes my changes yet. I don't think she believes I'm going to stay this way. I just hope she allows us enough time to try and fix things. She seems very restless. I on the other hand have totally exposed myself. I'm falling more in love with her daily and I'm not holding anything back. I want to hold her so badly but she's not comfortable with that so after she falls asleep at night I put my arms around her just so I touch her. If she does end up leaving me I'm going to be crushed so hard. Maybe I deserve it.

Acetylene

Of course she doesn't yet believe you--you're only a few weeks into this and most people don't believe others can change. Keep it up and you'll win her over again--she loved you once, surely she can love you again!

I would recomend you try to figure out some help for yourself in maintaining your current good behavior, so you don't start to slip up. If you have been helping with the laundry for three weeks, but then you forget twice in one week, she wil think "Huh, I thought it could never last and I was right." So, make yourself a chart or calender to remind yourself of what you promised to do and when. Also you can try keeping a journal of the things you've done right, and that will help remind you to keep doing them. That last thing is especially helpful if you're still struggling with the depression you mentioned before.

__________________
There's no justice. There's just us.

ChadB

It's not really like that. I'm not swimming against the current, I really have changed. I do those things around the house because they need done not just because I want to impress her. Marriage is a partnership and I need to treat it as such. They aren't her jobs I'm helping her with, they are our jobs.

Not to get too deep into our issues but my parents were not supportive people at all. When I wanted to go to college they told me, "Why? You'll just flunk out and waste all that money." But my wife stood behind me and held me up, she said, "You can do this." and I graduated from college with honors. Then I dove into my career and forgot her and the family. I'm still stunned that I did such a thing. It makes me sick to think I could be so thoughtless and uncaring towards someone that was so supportive to me.

Currently she does a direct sales business. She sells wonderful all natural soaps and skin care products. She really believes in the company and works really hard at it. So much that she has become their top seller for the last 2 years. In the past I was always complaining that she was off hosting those parties to sell these products because I had to be home early so she could get there on time. My work has very flexible hours and I could have made it work out. What an ass I was! Now I get my butt into work as early as possible daily so now she not only has the time to get to her parties but also on days she doesn't have a party I'm home so she can get work done while I play with the kids. That's the way a partnership should be. I want to support her the way she did me. She asked me to go with her to their national convention this year and I plan on being the biggest cheerleader for her. She more than deserves it.

BTW, if you are interested in her great products PM me and I'll give you the web link. They are really nice and smell so good on her and I assume other women too. She would love the unexpected business.

maleficent

You've changed and it's admirable that you've seen the error of your ways and have sought to correct it.... Well in that same length of time, I'd imagine your wife has changed as well... What's going to take some time is for you to get to know each other again as your new selves....

I wish you a lot of luck.. sounds like you've got a good woman who's stood by you when you needed it...

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analog

Been through something similar... when you destroy a person's love for you, it is very, very hard to build it back up.

Picture it this way...

Your wife's love for you was a bridge between the two of you. When you made the love bridge, you layed large, strong bricks. When you destroyed it, you pulverized every stone with a giant hammer, breaking them down into tiny pieces of rock.

Now you want to build that bridge back again, but now you've gotta put it back together with tiny, tiny pieces of broken love.

You may not make it, i'm not going to inflate your chances. You are, however, headed in the right direction to try and mend this broken connection. Keep trying hard, stay with it, and hopefully you'll start making some headway. I will say that the fact she's going to counseling with you is good... but healing takes a while. Be patient.

If at some point, you feel like you've been trying for forever to win her back, and not making any headway, and you feel like giving up, you're just trying to justify quitting. As long as she's receptive at all, you keep going, no matter how little progress it seems like you're making.

It will almost always appear that you've made less progress than you actually have, because the emotional defense mechanisms are stronger than the real feelings. A large portion of this kind of problem is overcoming the emotional defenses she's created to cushion herself from harm. It's normal for a person to love someone, but still refuse to allow them back in, for fear of being hurt again- it happens all the time.

Keep up the good work, it sounds like your heart's in the right place.

ChadB

Well that is less encouraging.

abaya

I don't think Analog is being particularly discouraging... he's just giving it to you straight. I think he's giving you very good advice on what to expect, realistically. As a woman, I can tell you all about emotional defense mechanisms... and how long it takes to rebuild trust. It's not impossible. But it's not guaranteed, either. It requires *so much* daily work, attention to detail, making up for all the years of neglect... that woman is going to take her time recovering and letting you in again, and that choice is ultimately hers. Take heart in the fact that she hasn't filed papers yet... seriously, that says something.

Your work is cut out for you... you just have to keep it up! You are doing a great job, so far, but it is a long road ahead. Don't give up, because in the end, no matter what the outcome, at least you can say that you put 110% into it... and that's a valuable fact.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

ChadB

The biggest issue I'm having in showing her I love her without smothering her. This is constantly on my mind. I want to talk about our problems and how to fix them. But she is not so motivated as I am. She doesn't really want to talk about it. Not bringing it up makes me feel like we aren't addressing it and not trying to change it. I really want to give her the space but doing that makes me feel like I'm letting her go.

She has said she believes I love her. She has also said she is impressed with my changes. But she said she doesn't love me. We had a nice family weekend last week and she said she enjoyed being with me but she pulled away from contact. More like I was a friend than a lover.

A few times during our weekend (at a waterpark) she made a few comments that confused me. Once I asked her to save my seat and she replied I will unless a cute guy wants to sit there. Was she teasing me or was she trying to hurt me? I didn't say anything. Then another time she told me a lifeguard was totally checking out her tits (yes she said it like that). I wasn't sure how to react to that but I said, "Well so am I". and she gave me a scoff. Very confusing.

abaya

Uff, she said she doesn't love you? That's a rough one... and there's no answer for how to change that. You can't make anyone love you. But does she *want* to love you back, and just can't? Or has she gone past the point of no return, in her heart? It almost sounds like she has placed you back in the Friend/Nice Guy Zone... except that you're her husband.

About the waterpark comments... without knowing her, it's hard to say what she meant. Why don't you ask her directly? I've heard off-the-cuff comments like that, and sometimes they are serious and sometimes the person just wasn't thinking about the impact it would have. It's always best to address it directly to dispel any passive-aggressiveness. (That reminds me that I need to do the same tonight, actually.)

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

ChadB

Yeah but at the time when we first started talking about divorice I didn't really think I loved her either. We were in a strange area of not actually fighting all the time but constantly snapping at each other. Bitter little comments.

I was able to erase all that in my mind and start over clean. So I threw out all I thought I knew or felt about her and tried to see her from a fresh perspective. That was when I started falling in love with her again. It's a hard thing to do I know but I hope she can see the new me.

Sultana

Its just really frustrating that it takes her pretty much completely emotionally disconnecting and walking out the door before changes are made, love is fallen back into, etc. I've seen this SO MANY TIMES.

It's good that you recognize that you have been but shouldn't smother her. That will just give her more ammo to call it quits.

It's gonna take time, and a lot of it. Don't let a heavy cloud of expectation weigh over everything you guys do. Analog is dead on with his analogy.

Good luck.

__________________
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath.
At night, the ice weasels come." -

Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.

Cynthetiq

give time time... read as PATIENCE.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

analog

The world is full of people who will tell you everything will be fine, just keep trying and you'll be ok.

Well, like I said, I've been through something similar- and saying anything other than "I'm sorry, but it's going to suck and be a heck of an ordeal" would be doing you MUCH more of a disservice than telling your straight.

This isn't one of those, "I tell it like it is and to hell with sugar-coating it" things, this is, "If I give you inflated expectations, your heart will ache you far, far more if it doesn't work out".

Keep your chin up, man. Good luck.

- analog.

ChadB

Well another seemingly happy weekend. Had a neighborhood party and had fun. We haven't said a word to the kids of course but while we were watching the Parent Trap our littlest told her mommy she never wants that to happen to us. Made me kinda teary eyed.

Found out one of her friends is getting divorced. That kind of worried me because it's easier to make big steps like divorce with someone. Doing all I can I guess.

- Chad

madp

Chad, please allow me to offer some potentially offensive observations as food for thought:

'm struck by a couple of themes in your posts. First, you began to try to save the relationship only after *you* realized how much *you* need it. All subsequent posts have been tinged with hints of desperation about the emotional pain the loss would cause you, and your "changes" and behaviors seem to be motivated by your emotional need to maintain this relationship.
This sounds like a selfish, immature love (much like what got you to this stage in the first place).

What a marriage needs is selfless love. This is your wife, and the mother of your children. If your love is selfless, you motive is to make sure that she and your children get whatever they need to be safe, healthy, and happy. If your wife needs to break away to be happy, a selfless love would compell you to tell her how badly that would hurt you, but that you ultimately want for her whatever she needs. If that means letting her go, you should be prepared to make it as much of a positive growth experience for both of you as possible. In doing so, you can maintain the love and emotional connection even if you don't remain a couple. This is a crucial component to raising emotionally healthy children. Also, you can both take what you have learned from this relationship and use it to build a much more fulfilling relationship with someone new in the future.

I'm not saying don't fight for her. . .I'm just suggesting that you honestly examine your motives. I'd bet that your wife has an innate sense of your motives, and will probably remain unresponsive if it "feels" selfish to her.

A couple of questions for you: could you be happy for her if she decided to leave you and took up with a new partner? Can you maintain a solid sense of yourself as a confident, strong, good man if she leaves you and takes up with a new partner? If you aren't at this point mentally, I would highly recommend that you get yourself into therapy. It sounds like a divorce is a distinct possibility, and you owe it to yourself to not let it wreck you.

Sincerely, I wish nothing but strength and wisdom for you in this difficult time. This kind of adversity can be a defining moment for a truly great man.

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why are you wearing that stupid man suit?

ChadB

I'm not sure I agree that it is selfish to want to make a better life for someone you realize you hurt. Show them you made a terrible mistake and then treat them as they should be treated.

She's caught in a bad situation. She was mentally ready to leave but didn't want to hurt our children by not only the divorce but moving from a house to an apartment, taking them away from all their friends in the neighborhood, and possibly a school change, going into full-time employment and a tighter budget for us both.

Now that I've woke up am trying to show her that if we can patch our relationship then nothing has to change and she can be happy. I've not only realized that I love her but I have completely changed my personality, lifestyle, and attitude not only to be whom she wants, but to be a better person in general. I certainly don't see anything selfish in that.

Could I be happy if she left and took up a new partner? Certainly not at first. Losing someone you love is one of the hardest things you can face in life. Eventually that could change but honestly introducing a new man into the lives of our children makes me quite nervous. Regardless of how well she may know him they are not his children and anything could happen.

Could I still be a strong, good, man if she leaves. Without a doubt because I would be secure in the fact that I did all I could.

I don't think there is anything selfish about a man trying to fix his mistakes and hold his family together.

It doesn't seem like many people are willing to makes changes and fight for love these days. It usually seems like people get bored with each other and divorce with little thought.

madp

What can I say? When I'm wrong, I'm wrong. . . I got the wrong feel from your posts, so consider it to be advice for someone OTHER THAN you.

Nonetheless, I honestly wish you the best. I hope you can light the fire again.

__________________
why are you wearing that stupid man suit?

Lady Sage

Being a woman I have to put in my two cents. I think she wants to make sure youre in it for the long haul and not trying to fix this relationship for your own personal gain. Actions speak much louder than words. You can say youre sorry and that you love her but try to SHOW her. See if she is game for a weekend away from it all. Just the two of you, it doesnt have to be romantic, just some time ALONE for the two of you to talk. Best of luck to you and I hope you are able to salvadge your relationship with your best friend and come to a mutually beneficial understanding.

Daffodill

When I read your post, I honestly thought that maybe my husband had written it, except that we have been married for nine years, not seventeen. Then I thought that maybe he just chaged a few details to try to remain annonymous because everything else sounded SO similiar, we have two children as well, he tends to pour himself into work and spend hours upon hours in his office on the computer, never lifting a finger to do any household chores or yard maintenance, and it sounds like I told him that I wanted a divorce about the same time that your wife told you (May 11). Anyway, that is where the similarities end.

My husband has handled this in the completely opposite way than the way you seem to be handling it. He was already a controlling, suspicious and insecure man, but after this news he went into overdrive. I told him that I felt smothered by his selfish nature and I needed space, and I did not want to have an intimate relationship with him during this time because I am not in love with him and have a lot of built up resentment. I let him know that I was considering moving back to my home state which is halfway across the country, and he proceeded to remove all of the money from our joint bank accounts. When I picked up one of the kids early from school for a doctor appointment one of his friends who he had gone crying to with only half the story, called him at work to tell him that I was leaving the school with the kids, so he gets in his car and drives towards the school, catches up to me, then follows me all the way to the doctor's office. He claims that he thought I was going to the airport.
He has been on my computer checking and reading my e-mails, in both my outlook account and my MSN account that he did not have the password to, but was able to break into using the "I forgot my password" hints. He tells me one day how much he loves me, but if I don't want to work on the marriage then I can start paying the bills. I have been a stay at home mom for the entire marriage and have no income to pay bills. I have had a few part-time odd jobs here and there, but nothing significant. In his mind working on the marriage is having sex because in his words sex is a "fundamental part" of marriage.

At night he would wake me up groping and pawing at me, when I refused his advances he would tell me how unfair it was to expect a married man to just go "cold turkey". One day he even called me on his cell phone and told me that he was at his lawyers office and if I did not aggree to start "being there for him" physically then he was going to file for divorce for me. I felt backed in a corner so I agreed, 20 minutes later he was at home in the bedroom undressing. I told him that I was sorry but he was moving too fast and of course he flipped out and pointed out that I had made an agreement with him. We started seeing a counseler when this started, but somehow he was able to charm her, she did not seem to get it until our last session. She kept insisting that I should just go through the "actions of love" and the feelings would come later, that feels like rape to me. I ended up opening up another bank account of my own to put any spare money that I happened to collect from family or friends, so that he would not have access to it. While doing so, the bank manager said that I qualified for a credit card, with a pretty good line of credit. Needless to say I have recently filed for divorce.

The main point I am trying to make is that the last thing you want to do is pressure her in ANY WAY. What she needs right now is some serious space, and if you truly love her more than yourself than you will give her that, without holding it over her head. It will probably help if you can try sleeping in a different room (don't kick her out of the bedroom). Don't walk in on her when she is in the bathroom under any circumstances. If she makes a snide comment meant to hurt you, let it roll. You have got to understand that she is in a really dark place right now and you are probably the last person she wants poking around trying to make her feel better. As long as you remain supportive but not overbearing in anyway, it will be noticed, even though it doesn't feel like it at all right now. I know it is difficult, but I think being patient is really the only thing you can do for her right now that will not cause her to further retreat.

Good Luck

genuinegirly

Wow, Daffodil. that's crazy. I feel really horrible for you. Your husband makes ChadB sound like a character out of a fairy tale.

She has been trying to hold your marriage together for years. Now it's your turn, ChadB. I think you can do it. You're definitely headed in the right direction.

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

3Z3VH

Not to make this thread shallow or anything, but it sounds really familliar, in the sense that if a guy is a "Great Guy" he can't get a date for the life of him.

It boils down to the way women see a "perfect" guy. The perfect guy is, most of all, suspect. They don't know what to make of it because there just HAS to be a reason he is being so nice, and doing everything for them. They always worry about a guy's alterior motives, even if there are none.

There is also the fact that it sounds like a 'nice guy' who always smothers the girls they like, giving them no room to breathe. You have to show that you have something to live for, for yourself. Otherwise it puts way too much pressure/stress on them.

Both of these are related to dating, and getting a girl to notice a nice guy, but if you read into them, you really do see parallels to your current situation.

Either way, I wish you the best of luck, and hope that everything works out for the best, whichever direction that takes your lives.

Keep showing her you love her, but also be aware that you may not be giving her the room she needs to think it through on her own.

ChadB

Geez Daffodill that does sounds messed up. I wasn't smothering I was non existent which I guess is just as bad in a different way. Your guy sounds like he might even be dangerous?

Things have been going pretty well for me. I've backed way off and if we ever talk about our relationship it's usually because she brings it up. The last counselor meeting was just with her alone so she could talk without fear of hurting me. When she came back she said it went well and we didn't need to see her again for a while. I asked why and she said it was decided that this is going to take a lot of time and as long as we were progressing forward and not stopped going backwards we didn't need an appointment every 2 weeks. I took this as a great sign because that means that my wife feels we are progressing forward.

We've also found a common interest that we are both excited about and talk about a lot. We've decided to get a teardrop trailer of all things so we can do more camping and have had a great time checking out the different models out there. We seem to be having fun again and actually laugh a lot. After all this just hearing her laugh again is like music. Hopefully things will keep going the way they are. Thanks for the great comments and support here everyone.

sexymama

I think you hit a very good point in your last post, ChadB. It is important to keep dreaming together. Those dreams give us a reason to be together if when it is difficult.

As for the comment at the pool, I wonder if you sounded jealous. Tone carries a lot of meaning. Maybe a better idea in those types of situations is to focus on the positive. "I don't blame him, they are beautiful (tits)."

__________________
If you can go deeply into lovemaking, the ego disappears. That is the beauty of lovemaking, that it is another source of a glimpse of god

It's not about being perfect; it's about developing some skill at managing imperfection.

Daniel_

This situation has happened twice in my familiy in the past few years.

I decided that things couldn't be fixed and got a divorce (my ex-wife didn't want to work at it and admitted to no longer being in love with me).

My parents decided to stick together, and make a go of it - after a couple of years my father realised it was not right, even though my mother wanted it more than the world, it was wrong for him.

So he left her.

The moral of the story is that I'm much happier, my ex-wife is happier, my father's happier, but my mother is clearly not happier. It's tough.

Sorry to maybe break your dream - but be aware that somethings are so busted that they can't be sorted.

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╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
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ChadB

The responses to this thread have been very interesting. Some say, "You can do it and good luck" while others say, "It's over, give up". What is interesting is mostly it's the women cheering me on and the men saying give up. Generally at least. Wonder what that says about our sexes.

Halx

The men aren't telling you to give up. They're saying something very logical. You should listen to them. It's not telling you to give up.

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[Don't Feed The Animals]

ChadB

I hear what the divorced people are saying. "Some people are happier after a divorce". I'm sorry but I don't buy that. Nobody is happy a relationship fails. I'm not unfamiliar with divorce. I'm the oldest of 5 and all of my siblings have been divorced. My sister has it down to a science, she's been divorced 3 times. Then looking at my wife's family, she is the youngest of 4. All of her siblings have also been divorced. My parents are divorced too. And I think only 2 of my friends have not been divorced. It's a very popular thing to be these days. My wife's friends almost 40 out hitting the bars saying how much fun it is to be free again. While their kids are at the sitters worried why mommy is puking when she got home. Proud moments there.

Generally here is how all those marriages went...... Hey we're having problems. Yeah and working them out is hard, I'd have to try and change something about myself. Marriage is hard. I know, let's not try and just get divorced, that way we don't have to try and fix the hard problems. Great, now I'm divorced and happy. Sure we shed a few tears but now that it's over and I didn't have to change I feel great calling him/her an asshole/bitch. Sure the kids were crushed but they'll adjust and be happier because we're happy. Sound familiar?

I'm not really stumbling around with my situation. I've given it a lot of thought and study. The real joke about the above scenario is that the problems they didn't work out just carry over to the next relationship. Hopefully you find a person the next time that can tolerate your issues. If not then like my sister they just happen all over again, and again. Excluding abusive relationships of course the people that really get hurt the most are the kids.

Think about it. If your marriage problems could be worked out would you get divorced? So what is so crazy about trying to work them out? I don't mean half-ass trying either, I mean really trying to make the person you once thought was the greatest person on earth love you again. I guess I'm being a bit defensive because I make a post about seeing a glimmer that things might be going well and the next person has to say, "Sorry to maybe break your dream - but be aware that somethings are so busted that they can't be sorted." I mean WTF? Spoken like a divorced person. Justifying what you've done feels too good I guess to not bring others down with you.

analog

Lots of people don't want to accept, or simply can't accept, that marriage CAN be work. It CAN be sacrifice. It CAN mean changing. If things need to change for a marriage to work, then so be it- the issue is that a lot of people look for the "easy way out", the quicker fix, of divorce. Especially where kids are involved, there is no "easy way out", but they are too lazy to make things work while they're still able to do so... because after a while, the relationship will suffer to the extent that it's virtually impossible to bring it back from the brink.

But you have the fight in you. You see your past mistakes, and you want to WORK and SACRIFICE to CHANGE things to make them better. You recognize it will take quite a lot to do it, and you're determined to keep at it. That alone is worth quite a lot.

And what you're seeing written in this thread is not "quit". It's not "give up". What you're seeing is "this is going to be hard," "it's going to be a long and painful road to recovery," and "keep at it or you'll never make it". That is not discouragment, it's the grit of the situation. It's the truth of how shitty your predicament is, and an honest appraisal of the work you're going to need to put into it. It's so far from "quit" that it's the exact opposite- fight.

Fight for your marriage. Fight for your kids. Fight for your love. If she tells you she doesn't have the love back, but lets you keep trying, it means she never fully lost the love- she's just keeping her guard up so you can't hurt her again until she's sure you won't. She's got to keep that heart of hers safe from you until she's positive you won't break it again- and that's all part of the healing.

- analog.

abaya

I agree. ChadB, you've got one hell of a fight left in you... it's pretty awesome to see how hard you're willing to work to save this thing. You're doing exactly the right thing by having that attitude. Again, there are no guarantees, but as I said earlier... if it goes bad, you went down fighting to the death. If it goes well, then... yeah. You get your reward.

Cheers, man. It's not often that I see someone so stubborn (in a good way) and willing to work on a marriage. Most people would have bailed a while ago, thinking it wasn't worth the sweat. Thank you for doing the right thing.

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--Khalil Gibran

bermuDa

Why are you so keen on smothering her with apologies? It sounds like you feel guilty for more than putting your career before your family; have you been entirely forthcoming with us?

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