abaya

Has anyone ever had to break off a friendship (similar to breaking up a relationship, but with someone completely platonic)? I don't mean just letting it "fade away" in the natural manner of friends falling out of touch, etc. I mean an actual, conscious, telling that person, "I don't want to be friends with you anymore," or "I no longer want to be in contact with you," type of thing.

The story: I have known this guy for about ten years, and we were really intense friends in college. There was a lot of flirting and sexual tension, but I really had no feelings for the guy in that manner after an initial crushing period (we met freshman year). We never did anything at all, and it wasn't a major temptation, believe me.

He met a nice girl our senior year, they got engaged a couple years later, and married in fall 2003. The weird part was that the flirting and sexual openness continued, both in front of and behind the wife, and I started to feel more uncomfortable with that. But I didn't know how to draw boundaries then, so I tried to go along with it and play cool.

Let me say that I was one of the maids-of-honor in their wedding, which in itself was a huge dramatic event (her family didn't like him, so she basically divorced herself from them... yep, both parents and two sisters were "disinvited" from the wedding). That was probably when I started to feel most uncomfortable with them... I didn't like them cutting off an entire half of their family, and I didn't like the type of interaction we had together. It always seemed like my problem, not theirs, so I kept trying to ignore it.

Things came to a head in June 2004, about 8 months after their wedding, soon after I started dating ktspktsp. He and I were taking a road trip and decided to stop by the aforementioned friend's house to stay the night. We ended up (four of us; the married couple, and me and ktspktsp) in their hot tub in the backyard, and the friend started a game of "truth or dare." Yeah.

He started asking me "how far I'd gone," what my "favorite sexual position" was, etc... just directing every question right at me. There were some dares involving getting naked and walking around the yard. I was still trying to play along like it was cool, but the whole thing REALLY shook me up. I let it hit me the next day when we left... and didn't really communicate with the guy since then.

Now mind you, if this event had happened with a different group of friends, maybe people with whom I was more comfortable talking about sex (there are plenty of those, believe me... just not this couple), it would have been alright. But it's the history with this guy, and the way he just hammered every question at me in that hot tub... it made me feel very uncomfortable.

So, now it's Feb 2006 and I decided to finally write the guy an e-mail to ask for his address to return some old DVD's, explain what happened, and to basically close off the friendship. At least, I thought. So I sent it, felt all relieved and everything... my counselor and I had been hashing this over for a long time, about what I felt okay doing.

So what happens? The next day (today), the guy CALLS me. He wants to know what is going on, whether I want to be friends or not. He said he was very hurt and missed me, and his wife had sent me e-mails (I never received any), and they didn't know what happened. I was angry that he called. I didn't know what to say... I couldn't say "No, I don't want to be your friend anymore," because he kept saying how much he wants to stay friends, even if we have to change some things about our interaction (e.g. no flirting). I was still unsure. He told me to call him back when I knew.

WTF?? I have never had to just "break off" something before... I mean, after a long period of silence, letting things "fade" after an awkward event, and a final closing e-mail... I thought the guy would get the clue. But I guess not. So now I feel bad, since I was a maid-of-honor and all, but I still feel that I don't want to be close to this person.

Has anyone had to deal with anything remotely similar to this? Or can someone just tell me that I'm not being an asshole?

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

snowy

Friendships come and go. You have no obligation to stay friends with this guy--his behavior towards you dictates that pretty clearly. But evidently you ARE going to have to make this more clear to HIM. Write a letter, send an email, make a phone call. But make it clear that he is not to contact you.

And above all else, abaya, you should not feel bad about this. This guy ruined the friendship, not you. You don't owe him anything. So end it, walk away, and be happy. Trust me, you're not an asshole.

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

ShaniFaye

dare I say this....

You've allowed a behaviour to continue without telling him to stop. (according to what you posted) You had not told him that the behaviour bothers you. As you've said you played along with it, so he wouldnt really had any idea that he should stop.

You said yourself you didnt draw any boundries, I think its only fair to this guy for you to tell him that this bothers you and see what he has to say about it. If you DID explain that in your letter only, IMO that wasnt exactly fair...you didnt give him a chance to honor the fact that you didnt want the behaviour anymore....it sounds like you told him....you did xyz (when you'd played along with it the whole time) and I dont like it so we arent gonna be friends anymore.

Hell, if I had been the guy, I'd have picked up the phone and called you to....cause I'd have been confused as heck about the situation.

Thats just my take, given the information you gave us

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

abaya

Thanks to both Owl and Shani for your responses. Owl, thanks for not calling me an asshole. Shani, your honesty made me really think about his side of things... which I've been trying to do all morning (I thought about it for a long time before sending that e-mail, too... believe me, all those months of silence, I was thinking about how to communicate with this person).

I have to say, this behavior-discussion did not come out of the blue. Since they were engaged/got married, I brought up twice in a non-confrontational manner (probably not firm enough, which is why I said I wasn't good at boundaries) that it was weird to be flirting like that in front of his wife. He kind of brushed it off, and so did his wife. They said I was like his little sister, whom he also teased about sexual stuff, that it was no big deal. I decided to try to shrug it off, too (bad idea)... around them, I always feel like they are in control of the situation and I have to go along. I know that is my perception, but there are very few people that I "perceive" that feeling around... so I wonder if it's really just me, or them too.

I forgot to say that a few months after the hot-tub incident, the guy did call me to say hi... it was an awkward phone call for me, and I mentioned that I had felt uncomfortable at the hot-tub event. He brushed it off again, thinking I was just mentioning it in passing. I guess I was hoping he would pick up on it, but he didn't.

I know these are not good excuses for not making my feelings clear in the past, but honestly, I am the type of person who "gets a clue" when someone is dropping hints like that. I think I am mostly frustrated that this guy didn't get the clue... and now I am lost as to what to do. If he had never replied to that e-mail, I wouldn't have missed him... but since he did reply, and pick up the phone, I feel like I have to re-engage with this person and "give him a chance." He said on the phone that I am blaming him for everything. I don't even know. I feel like I am dealing with an ex-boyfriend instead of a fading friendship...

I am not sure if I want a friendship with him, and it's not just the sexual flirting and whatnot. I didn't like how they cut off her whole family in the wedding. They have both been in all kinds of therapy for years (individual, group, couples), and everything they say feels like it's conditioned by therapy. Now, I am a fan of therapy, but I don't like it when I feel like someone is analyzing every word I say and the whole thing feels forced.

Maybe these are the deeper issues under the friendship that I could not see, and the flirting discomfort is only the surface. I don't know how to communicate those things to someone, though. Why do I have to do that? Has anyone else had to explicitly tell someone WHY you don't want to be around them anymore??

... well, my counseling appointment is coming soon, so hopefully I will get some insight on the situation there, also. But I really appreciate your responses, everyone.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

martinguerre

shani is right in that diffuse boundaries lead up to this...and that you may not have given him a fair chance to back the heck off.

but i'd add that you aren't under obligation to do so. Occasionally, even good and decent people muck things up to the point where it's best to consider the number of people in the world, and compare the time and energy it would take to repair this existing connection to something healthy against the effort to make new connections without this history.

__________________
For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life.

-John 3:16

abaya

Thanks, martin. This is exactly where I am stuck right now. I feel like he and I (and his wife, and my boyfriend) are good and decent people... but I have been doubting all along whether or not it is worth the time and energy. The friend told me on the phone today that to him, it is very much worth it because he misses me so much. I told him I was not sure, that I needed time to think about it. I don't miss him, and while our friendship was valuable for me in the past, I am really unsure of how valuable it is to me now. I honestly felt like I was talking to an ex... I can't shake that feeling.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

ShaniFaye

on the wedding perspective....let me add....while you might not have liked it, sometimes that kind of behaviour is necessary. I myself told my own parents not to come to my wedding at one point because of grief they were causing about the actual wedding (not about Dave, they adore him). Until you've tried to plan a wedding and dealt with both sets of parents its easy to sit back and say....they shouldnt have treated their family that way.....what about the bride? should the family have treated her the way the did(just play devils advocate here). Its not unusual....TRUST me, read some of the vent threads on wedding boards (even the one I run) and you'll see this girl was probably not alone in the way she felt.

That aside.....if you feel you should end the friendship by all means do it....I was just unclear as to if the guy REALLY understood how uncomfortable you were. Dave and I flirt around with lots of people in that way....but we also know we have friends that dont like it and we are very careful to avoid any behaviour like that around them.

oh and yes I have told someone that I couldnt be friends with them anymore....and I told them why because I think its really unfair not to let the person know why....to just leave them out in the cold so to speak

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

abaya

Thanks for the wedding perspective, Shani. I did try to be understanding throughout the wedding process (did I mention, too, that both the best man and original maid of honor bailed on the wedding, in addition to the bride axing her side of the family?)... but to be honest, it REALLY stressed me out. I felt like I was in a position to be the loyal, dutiful friend... when really, I wanted to bail on the wedding too. Somehow, I didn't. But I felt resentful the whole time, which wasn't fair to anyone (I was hiding it from them).

And, at the bridal shower, all of the bridesmaids were there planning things beforehand... and you know what? Before the bride arrived, some things slipped out and we all realized that we ALL felt uncomfortable with them getting married, and having to be involved in it. Shit man, if my own bridesmaids all felt awkward about being in the wedding, I KNOW they would tell me to my face... any of my best friends would do that. We are just honest like that. I could not be that honest with this woman because I hardly knew her... yet I was a maid of honor!

Again, I've learned a LOT about boundaries since the wedding fiasco. I guess that's why I want to do the "right" thing with this person, and why I wrote him the e-mail to explain my actions, as you did with your friend. I think it is unfair to not let them know. But I guess as I think more about this, it is less about the flirting business and more about other things. (Like I said, I really don't mind talking about sex, etc. with a comfortable group of people... like most of my friends. But just not this couple in particular... because of the way the friendship has been with me and the guy.)

I certainly don't want to leave the person out in the cold; while I am okay with friendships fading naturally, this one isn't going that way, and that's why I wrote the e-mail. But I also know that if I give this person an inch to negotiate, he is going to want to try and be emotionally close to me again.. and honestly I don't want that.

Is it shallow of me to just want a "Christmas-card friendship" (you know what I mean, like calling/writing once a year with updates, that's it)? Can I actually ask someone for that? And honestly, if the guy doesn't want that, then I am fine with having no friendship at all. I just don't want some intense thing like what we had before.

Thanks again, all. I know this story keeps getting longer/more complicated... but I appreciate your input very much.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Rodney

No, it's not shallow. And frankly, you aren't all that compatible anymore. You probably should have set firmer boundaries. But you kept bringing up what you were uncomfortable with, and he kept brushing it aside and took no clue from the fact that you _kept bringing it up._

In other words, good guy or otherwise, he's not an especially sensitive person. And since you have boundary issues, you're probably happier around more sensitive people who can pick up a clue from what you're telling them, or at least will not blithely cross over into your space and start rearranging the furniture whenever they feel like it.

Good friends are the relatives you choose, but sometimes old friends turn into people you would no longer choose if you were meeting them for the first time -- shared history holds you together, but your attitudes and interests have drifted apart.

Breaking off with somebody like that is difficult if both sides aren't ready for it. And it sounds like he's not. The hard thing is, you probably owe him more of an explanation -- and he probably won't get it. Nevertheless, you owe him the explanation, especially if you want to keep even a Christmas Card relationship. Which may not be possible in any case.

Supple Cow

I'm getting the picture that (1) you probably didn't set down as clear boundaries as you should have, and (2) that the whole thing makes you feel icky. To that, I say 'too bad for him.' Sure, the fact that you had squirrely boundaries objectively makes him less scummy than he seems to you... but that doesn't change the fact that he makes you uncomfortable. Are you responsible for his emotional well-being or your own?

It's completely reasonable to want that, especially given the situation. In my own experience, most of the people I want to banish to casual friendship land are the kind of people who don't just automatically get it when I tell them so. It doesn't make sense to them the way it makes sense to me. (That's usually part of why I need to change the nature of our friendship.) Using your words doesn't seem to be working, so maybe you should consider letting your actions speak for you.

A wise friend once told me that you teach people how to interact with you - that you can train people the same way you can train dogs. Reward them for appropriate behavior and don't let them get away with inappropriate behavior. Don't feel obligated to return his calls or emails right away. Don't feel obligated to make dates to hang out with him/them as often as he wants. Do only what you are comfortable with, and eventually, he will have to adapt to your idea of positive interactions or he will have to cope with you not being around for his version.

It doesn't sound like he's going to magically figure out that he's too much all of a sudden, so maybe you need to take control of the intake valve now. It may sound cold-hearted and manipulative, but these are tools you sometimes need to use to take care of yourself.

__________________
"I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. Twenty-six times I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."
(Michael Jordan)

pig

yeah, what she said...pluses what martinguerre said before.

i've been in these kinds of positions abaya, and i have a feeling some of my old friends have been through this with me being on the end of your friend. not for the same reasons ( i don't think ), but just because people change.

I think it sounds like the energy you're going to have to expend in order to cut off all communication could be equally as large as the effort it would take to reignite the relationship. plus, you want your dvds and other trinkets. but if you simply don't expend much effort to maintain the relationship, it'll sort of work itself out i'm betting. sitting around talking about why you do or don't want to continue it for extended periods of time will be a de facto continuation of the relationship. if this guy really wants to follow up on what's going on, then maybe a controlled email exchange or a phone call could be beneficial to both of y'all. after that...if you don't live in the same town, and you don't make an effort to continue the friendship...

i've also seen situations where clearing of the air gave birth to a new friendship, on different terms, where everyone was happy. usually less contact slowly fading to none...but not always. regardless, you can't force a friendship, and if it's meant to end it will.

__________________
You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

Sweetpea

number one: you are not an asshole

i would like to point out that it's true you didn't set boundaries.. however, you might not have been at a point in your life where boundaries were something you regularily set..... now they are... you've changed that's all.
So don't be too hard on yourself for that, but now you are most likely dealing with the consequences of not drawing those lines in the sand.

i would like to take a small detour here, as to why i think you might have let this countinue for such a period of time:
i think, from what little i know and understand about you... is that you like to make people feel comfortable, you like to make them feel happy, in essence, although it bothered you the way he was flirting/acting, you sacrificed your own comfort to make someone else happy, but you're stronger now in your own skin and you've decided not to put up with sacrificing your own happiness for anyone anymore. i would like to point out that this is a big growth step and something to be proud of.

my take: don't call him back if you don't want to. you don't owe this guy anything. if i didn't want to call someone back.. i just wouldn't. I'm fairly sure that this person would get the clue that you didn't feel like explaining anything. You don't have to explain anything to him, he probably already has a sense of what happened, if he's slightly intelligent, he can put two and two together over what the impeteous was over your change towards him.

If you feel you need the closure on the situation. Call him back and just explain quickly and in as little words as possible that his behavior had made you uncomfortable for some time and you weren't sure how to address it and now, you feel that it's inappropriate to be friends due to the fact you're obviously grown into two different directions with your lives.

Have i ever had to do this?? yes. It was with one of my good friends a few years back... she had grown overly-dependent on me and bascially smothering me (we all know the type) I just frankly said, well, you know, i think we're two different people now. It was a longer process than just that talk... however, she made a new best friend and the situation resolved itself most uneventfully, as i imagine it will for you too.

sweetpea

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abaya

Thanks again for all the great responses. I got back from my counseling session (very good today ) and working out, and I am feeling empowered. Your responses are very helpful in sorting things out, too.

Rodney: I'm not even sure if I want the Christmas Card thing anymore, frankly. One of my best friends asked me today, Why do you want even that kind of relationship? I told her... well, I guess it would be so I don't feel so bad about delivering the final blow to this relationship. And that is just being a wuss right there. So, to hell with the Christmas card plan. Rodney, I liked what you said about not wanting someone who will "rearrange the furniture." Great line. And no, he's not going to get an explanation, unfortunately for him. That's because if I even start to have the dialogue, he will take it and run. And I want to avoid that.

SuppleCow: Thank you for using the word "icky." That is exactly how I feel around this person, and my counselor actually used the same word today in our session! But yeah, I just don't know how to tell someone that I feel icky around them... and in this case, I don't think I even want to try. (See previous paragraph!)

Pigglet: For the record, it's his DVD's that I have... and I don't want them in my house anymore. I've had to carry them everywhere when I move, and I am tired of having them in my collection (never watched them). So yeah, I don't want any trinkets from him. But I agree, that clearing of the air can give birth to new friendship... it's happened before, and faded slowly after that... but in this case, I don't even want to do that. I haven't talked with this person in a year and a half. I don't miss him. And as you said, I've probably been on the receiving end of a situation like this before... but I don't think I've ever taken it so personally/hurtfully. People change. That's life, I figure.

Sweetpea: I really appreciated your post. Wow, you have hit the nail on the head with every paragraph... I'd say you have a real knack for reading people, and I am grateful for your insight. Thank you for your kind and affirming words (as always) and while I'd like to just walk away from this without taking any more action, I do want closure. During my counseling session today I already made plans to call the guy back ASAP, quickly and quietly make my wishes known (no further relationship), and end it like that. No chance for discussion, no chance for dialogue... because I know that more than anyone, that there's no closure when that happens. Thank you for encouraging me to do that.

Overall, I want to thank you all for being honest with me about my part (not making boundaries), and I want to be clear that I think I have come a long way since I was in college and friends with this person. I had no clue what boundaries were, back then. Today, as Sweetpea said, I think I am much stronger in my self and assertive in my communication about what I need, but this particular friendship was a remnant from an earlier time when I did not know how to do that. I still struggle when I am forced to make a decision like this and hurt people's feelings, but I know I can only really take care of myself first, and it's up to them how to react. I am growing...

Will keep you all updated!

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Sage

oh honey! It's so good to grow up and expand your defintion of "self!" I have had to stop friendships with three or four people (and I mean, literally decide to "pull the plug" on the relationship, not just gradually drift apart) and one of those people was my best friend for a while. I didn't sit down and coach them through not being their friend anymore, I just let things taper for a bit (like you have done with this guy) and the just stopped talking to them.

I even had an ex-BF from junior year of HS that would do the *exact* same thing to me as this guy was doing to you- flirty, sexual, etc etc, after he was engaged and after he was married. He just made me feel icky up and down and sideways, and eventually I was like "you know what... this guy is just an ass, I have no reason to talk to him or care about him anymore...." so I stopped talking to him. I realized that I was talking to him because, like this guy you're talking about, he had a way of making me feel obligated to talk to him and listen to his problems and be manipulated by him. Sorry, my life is too short to let someone else run it!

good luck with all of this- sounds like you're doing *very* well with the course of action you have decided to take! And no, you're not an ass at all- he's an ass for not being a good friend and a good husband !

__________________

abaya

Thank you, Sage. I really appreciate hearing your personal experience on this, and it makes me feel all the more "normal" having heard that other guys are icky like that, too.

Last question for you all: I know that I want to end this thing tonight, as in, ASAP. However, the guy sent me an e-mail this morning (right before calling me), asking me not to call him unless I wanted to be friends again. A few sentences later, he said please call me because I don't want to talk about this via e-mail. But in the phone call, he made it clear that he wanted me to call him after 10pm, not to e-mail, about my decision regarding the friendship. I said, well, I am not calling you tonight, so don't expect anything (I felt he was being controlling again). But I implied that I would do the justice of at least calling him to end this thing.

Now, though, I don't even know if I want to risk calling him, in case he gets desperate and tries to engage me in a debate. I don't want a debate. I don't want to talk with him. I just want to end it. I would almost rather just do that over e-mail, since there is nothing to discuss and I feel more comfortable controlling that situation (he is very manipulative on the phone/in person, one of the main reasons I can't stand him anymore).

What do you guys think: phone or e-mail? I hate the idea of ending a relationship via e-mail... but I don't know. I am looking out for #1 here.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

abaya

Conclusion:

I would never break up with someone on e-mail... but you know what? This was not a romantic relationship! It was hardly a friendship anymore. It was a loose tooth hanging from a thread, waiting to be tied to a door and yanked hard (I always had a hard time doing that, as a kid). The "break" doesn't deserve being in person, or even in voice. The guy went at me with a hatchet this morning on the phone, and I was not interested in risking that again.

So, it was e-mail. I did it (with a lil' help from Sweetpea in chat, thank you ). I got tired of hemming and hawing about "his" standards, and took care of myself. I sent the damn thing, was not bitter but made it VERY clear that I no longer wanted a friendship with this person. I feel like there is far less drama potential on e-mail, than on the phone (esp with this guy). So, it is done, and I am SOOOOOOO glad.

YAYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!

EDIT: Sage, thank you so much for this in particular. It really gave me strength, because I feel like we were talking about the SAME GUY! And I am so happy to have him out of my life, wow... such a weight off me.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Sage

so glad I could help! Good for you for standing up for yourself and not letting ANYONE get in the way of you having a good time (doing whatever, whenever!)



oh, and if we were somehow talking about the same guy, that would we WIERD.....

__________________

Sweetpea

you did the right thing abaya, well handled



sweetpea

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snowy

[QUOTE=sweetpea]you did the right thing abaya, well handled /QUOTE]

Seconded. Like my mother has always said...you can't waste time on people who aren't worth it. Sometimes, you gotta do what you gotta do.

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If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Toaster126

That's not a request to stop the behavior. I really don't have much sympathy for your situation.

No offense meant, but how they cut off her family has nothing to do with you. At all.

You have to do that because you let the behaviour go on without directly asking for it to stop. Instead, you built resentment and then exploded on a very confused person. I think this has handled terribly by you. If I were in his place, I'd be extremely hurt and confused. At the very least, you should offer some explainations with direct language.

Yes, I've done that once. The person was told that a paticular action (making reservations\plans\saying they would be somewhere, then failing to show up or call) was interpeted by me as a blatent show of disrespect. The person was told multiple times. When it happened yet another time, I told them that I no longer wished to associate with them because of that constant behaviour.

If you have arguements against what I've said, I really want to hear them. The post was kinda harsh, but that's because I think you handled the situation poorly. I still love you though.

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"The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand)
"The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

abaya

You know what, Toaster? I never said that I handled it well initially. I readily admitted that I was not good with boundaries for most of my life. I know I played a part in the unfolding of the situation; however, I really just wanted to walk away.

No grudges held against you, because I don't feel you know/grasp the whole story. I am quite happy with the situation as it is. I don't care if I will be seen as a bitch. I want this person out of my life, and that's what happened. This did not come out of the blue; there was a year and a half's silence before this, and you have no idea what kind of manipulation this person has ingrained in his personality. This guy would be completely thick to act like this was an "explosion" happening to a "confused person," even if I wasn't clear with my boundaries. Most people get it. This guy never did.

I want no part of it, ever again, and frankly if he's hurt... well, too bad. I took care of myself after ten years of ignoring my own voice in this friendship.

Thanks for being honest, but I just don't have much patience with your post. When it comes down to it, I don't think you actually know me well enough to make the statements you did.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Toaster126

At many points in my life I've been the guy that was puzzled by the reactions of people around him because I don't see or read emotions of people well, even the ones that "most people get". My heart is full of good intentions, but some people don't see that and bottle things up until they explode. Problems could have easily been avoided if people had told me what they were feeling instead of hinting around and hoping that I would see what they were too shy\afraid\unsure to tell me. So I really understand where this guy is coming from, and I think you could be surprised how these things can hurt a person. One of the worst feelings for me at least is being misunderstood and thought of as something I am not, and a lot of my life has been spent trying to repair damages I never knew about. I think that's unfair to everyone involved.

If you are so happy with how everything turned out and are fine with being seen as a bitch, why do you want the board to tell you that you were "not being an asshole"? I'm also surprised that you posted "frankly if he's hurt... well, too bad". Why don't you care when others get hurt? Is this hurtful action you took justified because he hurt you?

I hope maybe in the future you can have more patience with my posts because I'm trying to give you an opinion you asked for, and an opinion that is heartfelt.

__________________
"The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand)
"The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

abaya

Just wrote a long reply, got logged out, so now it's lost.

To summarize: I mean you no harm. I am not the person/people who harmed you in the past. You are not the guy in my situation (unless by some freaky chance!). We are some random people on an internet forum. Therefore, while I appreciate your insight and input from "his" side of things, please do not assume that I don't know what I'm doing, that I am somehow callous to the hurt I have caused. You don't know me. I know the pain I am causing, very much. That is why it took me so very long to decide my path (remember, ten years).

Btw, I have been "cut off" myself, in the past. I called those other people bitches and bastards and seethed in righteous anger for a long time. But I eventually got over it and realized that those people did what they had to do; that our friendship/relationship had expired, and I did not see it fully then. I hold no grudge against those people in my past, now. In fact, now that I have had to do the ending, I have more compassion for the people who "ended" me. I know that to some people, I will be an asshole. I wanted to know what people thought, on TFP, when I was doubting for a short while. But I know I would have made the same decision even if everyone told me not to; it was what I needed to do.

And I said "too bad" because I cannot be responsible for this person's reaction. I have to be "cold" because otherwise, I compromise my own integrity and doubt everything that I am. And I have sworn to myself that I will no longer do that.

I stand by my decision.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Toaster126

And I maintain you are wrong. Guess there's nothing more to discuss.

__________________
"The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand)
"The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

Sweetpea

okay okay

you shall both agree to disagree and all will be well with the world

sweetpea

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