wilbjammin

Well, considering that I'd know a thing or two about her, since she's my girlfriend:

She never met her real dad, he skipped off before she was born. But, going by your reasoning, even if she did grow up around him, all of us should be locked into some sort of Freudian trap and always fall for people like our parents? That is a strange stance...

I would never simply refer to her as a "chick", its disrespectful.

We've been together for a year, and we have a strong relationship.

There are Asian cultures, and there are cultures in America. Given that she has spent the majority of her life in a predominately white community, with a white-step dad, speaking American English and living a normal American life there is no reason to say she should be "more Asian" or that she hates being Asian. She simply identifies more with what she's been around. Your claim is the same as saying that I should like Germans and Prussians because of my ancestry, even though I don't speak German and don't have many connections to German and Prussian traditions.

I don't treat her like a trophy. Relationships take a lot of work, and we've put that work in, and are continuing to put that work in.

You are using stereotypes and demographics to "sandbag" the idea that a white man could have a meaningful relationship with an Asian woman. There are bad interracial relationships, and good interracial relationships. The way to judge relationships is to look at how they function.


I could say more, but this covers the basics of the vast generalizations that you've made that I find to be misplaced.

__________________
Innominate.

anti fishstick

Uh.. Where did you get off thinking that I *obviously* hate being asian? You're making a big leap and jumping to conclusions.

1) My step-dad is white. I've never met my real dad. My boyfriend is nothing like my dad. At best, the ONLY similarity is skin color. But who cares.

2) I'm proud of my culture and family and the fact that I come from a different background than most people in my area. I think international/multi-racial studies are fascinating, so there's definitely no negativity there. I also love the asian aesthetic, and have been naturally drawn to eastern philosophies which I've found out on my OWN since I was raised catholic and rejected the religion. So, in my opinion, all things western are NOT "correct" or superior. I have rejected a lot of things that society thinks is correct.

3) There is simply not many asians in my area. I'm going to go for what's there. I don't think about skin color on a conscious level when I'm with someone. It's not like I think "oh, I need to find an asian now". That would be the same kind of objectified exoticism displayed when caucasians seek asians solely to have an asian. I don't objectify people.

I go for character, personality and looks. I've been attracted to caucasians, blacks, asians, hispanics... But in general, I'm most attracted to caucasians. My reasoning for not being attracted to asians is because in traditional asian culture, asian men are dominant and treat the woman with little respect, or at least not by my "americanized" standards. I just can't relate to most asian subcultures because I haven't grown up around them. They're very different from my perspectives that I have grown up with and I don't think I would be attracted to it.

4) I do think I'm american. I'm a US citizen and I've lived here most my life. But I don't think I'm white, and there's a difference.


Nope, no prejudices here. I don't even think about ethnicity when I date people. That's what people don't seem to get here. White males who look for asians are doing so for the sole reason that they're asian. When wilbjammin met me, he wasn't looking for an asian, but our character and personalities matched really well. I never look for asians. I've never dated one but I wouldn't be against it if our personalities matched and I found enough similarities there.

On the other hand, if I were living in the Philippines and an American was looking for a Filipino wife, I probably wouldn't be receptive to that even though many Filipina women do just so that they can go to the states and live a better life. For me, any sort of objectification or "trophy" is not a better life. This would be just as bad (and function similarly) as a dominant Asian man/subdominant Asian woman relationship.

__________________
And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.
~Anais Nin

FL8ME

jorgelito

I appreciate your intelligent and well thought out responses on this board and while I feel like there is something to the comments that you're making, I still have this overwhelming feeling that you are only talking about a minority and not the majority. I just haven't had the same experiences as you. Indeed there are many women and men who are embarrased by their heritage be it stemming from lack of self esteem or confindence, a need to be accepted or whathaveyou. However, in your younger years, say 12-24, everyone has this problem at some point, it just becomes magnified when you look different. Or maybe even because you look the same and want to be different. You ever seen those white kids who try to act "black". Anyway, my experiance in Asia, chiefly in living in and visiting Japan, China, Hong Kong, South Korea (essentially industrialized Asia), has shown me the cultural emphasis on group thinking and dynamics. The few women in these countries that choose to date western men (while still a lot, is nowhere near even twenty percent of the female population) perhaps are attracted to the successful looking white guy, although in these countries with already humming economies it is less likely you will find a white guy that is the most successful, or even near the top. It seems just as likely to date a white man because you are a self hating, status hungry person as you are if you're just disallusioned by social norms. While I've never been to southeast Asia, I agree your theory seems more likely there, but how many of these women marry and leave the country with white men they meet? Again not a majority of the women. Just because you may work in the sex trade that caters to western tourists, doesn't necessarily mean you would want to leave with them. It probably just mean you understand you can take the most money from them while they're there.
In the case of countries that have already reached the first world, it seems your case would represent less than one might think. Yes eye surgery is popular in S. Korea and Japan, but by no means do a majority of these women have these cultural self-hating tendencies. Of course this is just my opinion. I hope I made this coherent enough

Kurant

I have to comment on this one..

Although opposite, Asian male, white female.

My best friend is an asian male, and his girlfriend/fiance is white. Now, she is the mother of 3 kids, from 2 dads, been married, divorced, had a kid out of wedlock to save a relationship that was downhill from the start. How do I know this, because she was also a very goo friend of mine. Bad choices or not, she was always a very nice, honest person, or so I thought.

Since theyve gotten together, I've seen things from here I never expected. Comments, ingorant, jealous attitude, things I didn't see before. But, now I have seen the side of her that is not likable at all.

What does this have to do with an asian you ask? Well, she doesn't want to work for anything, she wants everything handed to her on a platter. Asians in my experience, are family orintated people. Very dependent upon family members, and very, very loyal to friends. He has taken in her 3 kids. Not married, in 7 months bought her new appliances, paying her day care, paying her car payment, paying her house payments, all the while, he works his ass off, while she calls into work, he's workng his days off, overtime, while she sits at home. Since they've become together, he still lieks to do thins with his "boys". She will do anything in her power to set the kids aside to be able to allow time for the attention she craves.

He's very loyal, and doesn't see the problem with any of this. IMO, asian people are very loyal to friends, and family and this is no different. He's so loyal someone is using him, or so I think, and neglecting everything else to do it. His family is also not happy with the arrangement, and I truly believe it's because she's white. It also seems to me asians like to keep it within the culture. I'm not sure though, but all his brothers are married to other asian women.

I personally don't see any problems with it, it's just a story I had to share.

jorgelito

Fl8me,

You're right on. You see how individual experiences differ from generalities or stereotypes. That was my problem with the original line of thinking. Just read the first ten posts to see what I mean.

Although we both traveled in the same area, we experienced and interpreted things differently. Neither of us are "social scientists" (at least I am assuming you're not). If we look at things form a macro level, then we get a different view.

For example, if we aggregate all the threads and quantify the experiences we may get an interesting picture that defies our conventional way of thinking. In other words, we sandbag ourselves, but this way, we may learn something new.

As for the other two rebuttals, I did not intend to make personal attacks or purposely offend. Rather I was trying to present an alternative viewpoint on the issue. If you recall, I point out many times that I was oversimplifing intentionally to save time and keep the post short.

anti fishstick, your response is excellent. It is drastically different than your first post from which I had based my post on. You present your thoughts very well here (not that I am judge and jury, just my opinion).

In point 3, you make the same generalizations and stereotypes about Asians again. Additionally, in your first post, you do not indicate your "Asian pride" and imply shame in association. But in Point 1 of post 2, you express your point clearly.

wilbjammin,

Quote:
You are using stereotypes and demographics to "sandbag" the idea that a white man could have a meaningful relationship with an Asian woman. There are bad interracial relationships, and good interracial relationships. The way to judge relationships is to look at how they function.

That is exactly my point. It is the classic, "shoe on the other foot" example. I am assuming, that the content of the first page of threads made Asians feel the same way. Sandbagged. Both of you indicated negative stereotypes and sandbagged Asian males as your reason for not dating Asians etc. But in my example, you definitely understand why it's offensive or whatever or incorrect.

Do you guys see what I mean now sort of?

Thanks for your responses, I think they contributed postively to this discussion.

wilbjammin

Well, I spent a good deal of energy trying to discuss A) how much of an issue it really is, and B) what are the reasons for it?

Obviously there are cultural reasons driven by the media, as you discuss earlier. I understand that its a problem, however, I just disagree with your framing of the issue. You're claiming that it is all about sex, and while that may be true in many cases, there are also many relationships that persist and exist beyond merely a sexual aesthetic level.

The negative stereotypes are there, and there are reasons for them. I don't think that the emasculation of the Asian man is as big of a contributing factor as the objectification of women by Asian men and the subserviant expectations that are upheld. Those traditionalist values are being challenged and have been challenged with the introduction of Western culture via media and the expansion of the global market. Again, I must reiterate what I've said before, which is that culture does vary significantly between different parts of Asia, so to discuss this issue you'd need to look at the home country of those involved, where the interactions are taking place (Oregon is much different than Alabama, and definitely much different than Manilla, Cebu City, or Tokyo).

I think that alienation and a desire for independence are key factors for many Asian women when considering to stay within their culture. Whether or not being faced with traditionalists, there is going to be an expectation that being approached by someone <i>only</i> because they're of the same ethnicity as you are that they're looking for some sense of familiarity and to continue within social norms of that culture. After being removed from that culture in some way and then finding that there are aspects of that culture that you don't want to be part of, being approached because of your ethnicity is going to be unappealing. Just like it is unappealing to be approaching by someone of another ethnicity just because you're exotic...

__________________
Innominate.

jorgelito

Agreed. We really are talking about a multitude of issues, some which converge, some which stand alone.

I do understand what you are saying but I disagree that I framed it all about sex. I must of not made myself very clear then. I had thought I used a variety of examples to illustrate the various aspects of the points offered.

Additionally, keep in mind that I was also including other ethnicities as well. Actually, my main point is the whole notion of ethnicity and race as a whole but that's for another time.

Also, I want to make it clear that I am not "sandbagging" the media either (lol). It's just one part to a multi-part mechanism covering the social strata in which we are dealing with. Remember, stereotypes transend race as well.

Think the classic trailer park wife beater - does that mean all Euro descent males are like that? Of course not. Likewise, not all Asian males (I'm assuming) are traditionally minded or sexist what have you. Nor do macho moustached Latino males all beat their wives either. So on and so forth.

Quote:
Again, I must reiterate what I've said before, which is that culture does vary significantly between different parts of Asia, so to discuss this issue you'd need to look at the home country of those involved, where the interactions are taking place (Oregon is much different than Alabama, and definitely much different than Manilla, Cebu City, or Tokyo).

Excellent point - I agree, that is why it is critical we don't make the same prejudgments and continue sandbagging.

Quote:
I think that alienation and a desire for independence are key factors for many Asian women when considering to stay within their culture. Whether or not being faced with traditionalists, there is going to be an expectation that being approached by someone only because they're of the same ethnicity as you are that they're looking for some sense of familiarity and to continue within social norms of that culture. After being removed from that culture in some way and then finding that there are aspects of that culture that you don't want to be part of, being approached because of your ethnicity is going to be unappealing. Just like it is unappealing to be approaching by someone of another ethnicity just because you're exotic...

There is an excellent article regarding this very issue from the BBC. I can't locate it right now but: it basically says, that in Japan, many women are looking abroad for the very reason you stated above.

The only problem I have is that Asian men and Asian American men are different. Just like Asian American women and Asian women are different (I am using generalizations here). So it's easy to start "throwing the baby out with the bathwater" as it were.

jorgelito

Ah, here it is:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1206/p....html?s=rsswmh

Caveat: I would take this with a grain of salt but it is still interesting nonetheless.

Date the Banana

A few quick comments, (last three girlfriends Asian, as is current belle)
Where I come from (middle of the Can. Prairies) the majority of the Asian community primarily dates Asians. Considering that they represent such a small percentage of the population, (I'd imagine it's less than 10%) I would have expected that interracial couples would be the norm. The odds of finding a good match with the limited number of Asians in the area should have been difficult, what with an overwhelming number of white folk around. And yet, in this circumstance (Middle of Nowhere, Canada) at least, most Asians stick to their own. Why? Who knows. Yes, there are a lot of Asian girl/Western boy relationships, but there are a heck of a lot more Asian boy/Asian girl relationships. The lack of Asian boy/western girl relationships might have as much to do with the Asian mother situation as anything else. A lot of the Asian guys I've spoken to have said their mother would never permit them to marry a white girl. Is that the rule? No, there are exceptions. However, for whatever reasons Asian families often have less of a problem with their daughters dating interracially.
What do you guys say? If you're an Asian guy has your mother/father/grandmother etc said anything or made you aware of a bias about marrying an Asian girl? Girls? Same question in reverse. I'd be interested to see the results.

EDIT: Hmm...while I was typing that there were some good reasoned replies. Yes, I should be reprimanded for lumping Asians in as a group, the differences between the different cultures of the region are very pronounced.
As for the Japanese comment above, that is mostly true, and yet my girlfriend has no desire to leave Japan, or even learn English, so if she's dating me to get away from Japanese life she's being very sly about it...

__________________
all work and no play make Date something something

jorgelito

Read the above article, interesting stuff. But of course it is a gross generalization but still pertinent to the discussion.

jorgelito

Oops,

I quoted incorrectly. I'm not very good with the discussion board interface. I hope you all can discern what is what and understand the post. Thanks.

anti fishstick

To add to Wilbjammin, I have been approached both by other Filipinos because I am Filipino and Americans because I am Filipino... Both are unappealing and a bit alienating, or just weird. For me, I don't ultimately relate to someone just by ethnicity. I may think it's neat that someone is Filipino and may get excited because there's not a lot of us in Oregon, but there has to be other things there for me to really latch on to some sense of familiarity (interests, personality, etc.)

A couple weeks ago, I was approached by someone on the metro who asked what my nationality was and then said he lived in the Philippines for 6 months in the military. My guess is that he noticed I was asian, and probably Filipino, and decided to sit by me (I thought it was weird when he sat by me and remember being uncomfortable because there were lots of empty seats at the time). He mentioned he ate with his hands there, and made some weird comment about how he didn't end up getting married (was he looking?). I know he was probably trying to relate with me, but it was very awkward and alienating.

This is not necessarily true. Typically, when I think of asians that like to keep within the culture, I think of Chinese tradition. Or again, places in the US (California, New Jersey, etc)with a big enough asian subculture for there to be groups of asians and therefore, opportunities to date other asians. But, there is a big underground market for mail order brides, or the slightly more neutral "pen-pal" service (which is basically the same thing, at least, with intentions). Often, family members and friends are *happy* when a female finds an American male so that they can fly to the States. Often, friends joke to the new bride about finding them "pen-pals" so they can move there too.

When I visited the Philippines, ALL of the young people (both males and females) my age or older that I met there asked me for pen-pals. I think this has something to do with the state of the economy/government/poor conditions etc. that make it an undesirable place for them to live. But it also may have to do with thinking the States/Americans are superior. I thought it was really odd that we have all these tanning lotions, tanning salons, etc. Emphasis on darker skin/exoticism being beautiful. In the Philippines, they had commercials for making the skin *whiter*. Emphasis on Western aesthetic...

It also has a lot to do with the Philippines and the military base, like my story about the man who lived there for 6 months. Many Filipinas DID whore themselves and knew that they could use their sexuality as a means to get more money, just to get by. This is directly related to mail order brides because it's this concept of objectification and "buying" a female that made the business so popular. Both people, in a sense, are using eachother. The man, of course, is looking for a wife and wants to have someone to take care of the house, etc. The woman just wants a better life in another country and is aware that she may be sacrificing a lot of things, though willing to take the consequences. There's a lot of ethical issues here and it's not something I'm particularly proud of (when I worked for fast food my peers asked if I was into prostituting or some crass remark because they knew I was Filipino. It's sad that this is what my country is known for)... but these women do know what they're doing and have voluntarily put themselves out there.

__________________
And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.
~Anais Nin

westothemax

My girlfriend is Norwegian, I am Chinese. My mother has always told me that she would like it if I married a Chinese girl, but she has never disapproved of me dating non-Chinese girls. My grandmother (Dad's mom) is more conservative. She doesn't talk to me about these things, but you can definitely tell what she's thinking when I bring my girlfriend with me when I visit my grandparents.

I can almost understand where my family is coming from, since my dad is the only boy his parents had, and I am the only boy my parents had, so I am the one that will carry on the family name and all that. But it's not like I'm going to breakup with my girlfriend just because she's white... that's just...horrible.

My girlfriend and I have been talking about what to do after college since we both graduate in June (we've been together since Freshman year of college). We'll probably move in with each other, depending on the job situation. I'm pretty sure she'd be more than happy to get married right away but I think I want to wait a few more years. So I'll probably find out how my family really feels about inter-racial marriage within a few years.

littlebighead

I was going to make some points here, but looks like they've already been made. Blame it on media, stereotypes, imperialism, exoticism, cultural rebellion, etc. What is unfortunate is that, though I noticed this trend in the 90s when I was in college, it's still prevalent. I don't have anything against interracial relationships / miscegenation, but I find the reasons for it are... sad and pathetic. I've asked some of my Asian female friends why they liked dating white men. Some gave lame excuses, like they just haven't found any Asian men that they would find attractive, or that Asian men tend to be chauvanistic (which I find hard to believe among US-born Asian men). And I had a white male roommate who would only date Asian women. When asked why, he admitted it was exoticism. Lame.

I don't know why more Asian men don't date outside their ethnicity. I was always open to it, but my friends weren't. I'm sure it's a cultural thing, like wanting to please one's parents or something. But I would rarely see the Asian-male/white-female coupling, and never the Asian-male/black-female nor Asian-male/latina-female combination.

When I was back in college, I remember complaining with my Asian freinds about the white-male/Asian-female thing. I remember it feeling disempowering, like "they were taking our women". Of course, that was a terribly sexist thing to think, but I was stupid then. One of my more thuggish friends actually assaulted a white-man for dating an Asian woman. Can you say hate crime? Lots of rage from feeling emasculated, I think.

But now that I'm happily married (to a wonderful woman who happens to be Asian) I don't even think about these things anymore. At least, not until my daughters become teenagers.

About the height thing, I think people in Asian countries are growing taller. They're not as malnourished as they used to be. I grew up in Canada and the US, and I'm an average height of 5'10". I remember visiting Taiwan in the late eighties and towering over everyone else. But when I visited in the late nineties, I noticed a lot more people as tall or taller than me. And look at Yao Ming! What is he, 7'5"?

hobo

I live in Canada, in a city that has a fair number of asians, but nowhere near the scale of Toronto or such. There are a lot of asian guys/girls I know that won't date nonasians. I am asian but I don't feel the same way. Infact, I am afraid of dating asian girls because so many asian families are strict and traditional. I was born and raised in Canada, so I am disconnected from a lot of that. I would only date an asian girl who doesn't have really traditional and strict parents, but I haven't had too much luck there. I'm currently dating a caucasian girl I met on campus, and it's going well. My mom does hint that she would prefer I have an asian girlfriend, but she lets me do what I want. My dad always assumed I'd end up with a caucasian girl because of the culture I grew up in, and he's fine with that. I have noticed that my parents are quite lax for asian parents, so I figure I'm among a minority.

mfh

It has very little to do with ethnicity and very much to do with the fact that American culture has systematically painted Asian males as completely undesireable in every possible way. Any "my mother would disapprove" speeches are false. How else do you say, "well, most women in this country simply do not find me attractive, without even giving themselves a chance to get to know me"?

Asian american males are systematically victimized. For whatever reason - racism, greed, entertainment, whatever. It's irrelevant. Asian males in america are held hostage by forces beyond their control. There are exceptions to the rule, of course, but nearly everyone on this thread has observed the same general consistencies regarding asian males involved in relationships. It's not a coincidence.

American women (of all ethnicities) are media slaves. They choose their shoes, clothes, shampoo, even cars based on what magazines and media tell them; do you think they are any different with men? American women are just as victimized for this as anyone else in this country; it's a sad, sad phenomenon.

When was the last time you saw an attractive Asian man modeling anything in a magazine? Or a neutral subject in a TV commercial? Or _anything_ other than the comic relief?

I may sound sexist, but that's just what I have observed in my life: men seem to be more open-minded about this sort of thing.

__________________
mike

510cut

is that from Battle Royale 2?

This was an interesting thread to read. Maybe I'll comment more on it later when it isnt 2 am... just to add I'm asian pretty avg height (5'11) and shy :P insecure? maybe a little. I'm a first generation but I was raised pretty americanized (Whole elementary school/middle school was pretty much non-asian). I think it just has a lot to do with upbringing. I only really liked white women for the longest time because well.. they were the only people I hung out with. haha now that I'm in college I'm trying to reembrace the asian culture :P

KirStang

Haha, 510Cut, it wasn't really until college that i too started liking Asian girls again.

I believe MFH makes a really good point about the way media portrays Asian men, though it's already been discussed, I usually see asian men being portrayed as funny, yet foolish people. Just look at William Hung, or even Jackie Chan, they are not in the least bit, seen as "hot guys."

W/e, I'll probably add more later...i was kind of trying to keep this topic alive

Faygo

I've been dating my girlfreind seriously for 2.5 years now. She was born in Hong Kong and moved over here at the age of two. Were in typical middle class surburbia so there really isn't an huge asian population. She was rasised basically around white people, but she keeps her roots. She speaks Chinese fluently eats mainland food ect. She's always said that she just doesn't find asian men attractive.

KirStang

Yea....Why is that?

sashime76

I think it's more of a demographic thing, it's (interracial mix) not uncommon on the East or West Coast but States in the upper middle. You walk on the streets in Los Angeles or New York, you see people of all colors. It's just a norm for them to intermingle. Often enough Cupid strikes up sparks and the worlds unite.

I'm an Asian and I have dated Whites, Asians, mixes, usually one being pursued, not sure why? I do have the ability to make just about any girl/woman laugh though.

rajc

i believe that its not the power, as you described,that asian females are attracted nor they are thinking about their children haveing better future if they had some "white" / "black" or whatever, blood in them. I beleive it is this way because of the their cultures. Most asian cultures pressure their kids (if they allow dating, etc) to only date male/female from their own cultures. I.e. indian/indian, or japanese/japanses etc. They are especially hard on females. Due to this restriction, when female dates a white or black or any other race than of their own, it gives them a thrill. Its psychological thing. You are forgetting that most people on top positions are asians (i am not being disrespectful towards any race). Therefore your theory of females being attracted to "white" or "black" is null. About 25% of CEOs,CFOs, etc,. positions are held by indians and others.

Now about white males, white males have constantly dated white females (subtitute black if you would like) ever since they have started to date. Most of the white (black) females know of their rights and know that they can leave their "man" at any time, since their backgorunds do not see this as a shameful thing to do. However, other cultures i.e. indian or japanes or chinese cultures see this things as a condition of humiliating disgrace to their famalies. Therefore, white/black men have learned (the once that want a good girl from a descent background) that asian females are far less likely to break their hearts.

BTW i am an asian indian and have dated girls from many background, white, iranian, indian, etc. And have faced many problems with dating asian girls, mostly family problems. I have got tired of this problems thus i look for girls that do not have any dating problems.


I suggest you watch eddie murphy raw comeday you will understand this better.

gentlesoul43

My opinion has been well summed by ChrisJericho and Jorgelitho, so I won't bother to repeat. I think in terms of the white male/asian female combination, it is pretty accurate to stereotype most of the relationships in the reasons as stated. I don't necessarily like it, but I accept that we all make our own individual choices.

What I don't understand is why there are less asian male/white female combinations. Some of the asian guys in the forum have professed to have had white female partners and I do know asian guys who have/had relationships with white females. But by and large they are less common, and the typical reasons such as power, wealth, looks (or height or whatever) do not come into play. Although I have never asked, I think the relationships are based on compatible personalities.

Any white females here care to comment on why they are less inclined to go out with an asian guy?

Here's an unsolicited opinion about myself as an asian guy:
- I like asian girls because they're down to earth, will tend to have a more compatible personality and size-wise, they are petite and nice to cuddle with
- I like white girls because they are more outgoing, open minded, have nice sharp features and at the risk of sounding like a Himbo, have bigger tits (haha, that last one is a result of the onslaught of Playboy when i was younger and I do not think like that anymore)
- I like other women too - because like escargot and caviar, you don't get it very often.

onesandzeroes

As for why there are not as many asian male white female couples

I think the emasculination(sp) of asian males in media and in american culture is one reason to blame. This was mentioned before in the thread I believe. you don't agree?

of course there are others.

I think media portrayal and status in pop culture plays a huge role. I think this is also why black and latino men do well with other races. stereotypes of latin lovers and super masculine black men help them out. On the other hand black women don't do as well dating men of other races because black women are not portrayed as being very feminine. I don't have stats or anything that tell me that black men and latino men do well dating other races while black women do not, but that's just the impression I get from talking to people, living life, etc.. So if you disagree with that part I'm not going to argue with you.

to the person that said that many CEO's are asian.. yes true.. and that maybe powerful but not powerful in the "manly" sense. Who thinks that bill gates is "manly" he sure is powerful. I guess being manly is a certain type as well as perception of that power.

gentlesoul43

Good point of view, onesandzeroes. I think that is to a large extent a correct analysis of the situation. The media portrayal and the stereotype does play a part to a large extent. I am also a believer that stereotypes are true and perceptions is a good indication of the actual truth.

Any white women who have formed a different opinion of asian men, particularly the ones who have had been more exposed to western cultures? I had white friends when in Australia, but I did notice that it was not easy to break into the circle.

Dr Rico

My mate is ethnically Indian (though born in Ireland and raised in Canada of a father from Kenya and a Mum from Mauritius, so go figger). Her first husband was a Big White Canadian Guy with blue eyes, fair skin and all that jazz. She told me that at that time, she needed a big white Canadian in her life to feel Canadian. She was hassled as a kid for being brown-skinned and used to try to scrub the brown off her body in the tub as a tot.

She doesn't do that no mo.

After her hubby split, she was not looking for a mate but we ended up colliding through a series of natural disasters. I'm a German Jewish English Episcopalian mutt. Our dotters (Thing One and Thing Two) are gorgeous hybrids. We just got back from a New Years party I played at, and in attendance were three other "interracial" couples (humans are one race, really) with kids (all gorgeous): Afrofem and Anglodood, Anglofem and Indiandood, Japanesefem and Anglodood. I've known these folks for years and I think they all hooked up because they love each other, not because of their ethnicity.

However, RE: me mate. So she was trying to adapt to The Great White North through snogging white guys as a young woman, but no longer gives a hoot. She's kinda embarassed about it now, but also thinks she came by it honestly. BTW, her sister is married to a Big White Canadian (the brother of my wofe's ex...) and always dated whitedoods. Ther childhood friends were either hybrids of interracial marriage or have since married folks of other races. All of them. We just got back from a holiday gathering of the extended Ontario Tribe and saw the whole lot and their gorgeous hybrid kids. Good times. Felt like the freaking UN.

Anywho, as for me...well, I've always liked the look of my pale olive skin against cocoa...and still do. I played in an african rock band for years and made love in that scene and played raga rock before that and made love in that scene and have hung with folks from different ethnic groups all my daze without hardly noticing, really. Then again, the Euro-Americans never tugged my heart the same way. Fetish? Nah. Aesthetics. And culture. And life history.

__________________
Hasta --> Rico


"Earth is an asylum for angels with amnesia" -- Emerson

yster

I think mfh may be right about the media, but I think a lot of people overestimate the intent behind these kinds of reactions. Even if you ask someone 'Why do you date <insert whatever>?', they probably can't answer that unless they are extremely and overtly racist. Attraction is not something that can be easily quantified, even if we *think* we know our reasons, we may only be observing our past behavior and making guesses. If attraction is considered somewhat out of our hands, certainly the media and past experiences would have shaped and continue to affect it.
Why are some white men attracted to asian women?
Height aside, there are certain build differences that can't be ignored.
Since 'white' is a constantly evolving term that swallows up more ethnicities every year, it is hard to pin down traits like eye color or skin pigment; the Irish, Jewish and Italians were not considered white when they first came to America en masse. Overall, however, it is hard to deny there is a difference in build (not height necessarily), but the bulk of the torso at least, between these two 'races'. Due to the incredible rate of obesity in the USA, any genetic disposition towards a slender build is a huge advantage, especially for women. These 'ideal' traits would be noticed subconsciously even if a person doesn't recognize them overtly.
For men, negative stereotypes may play some role in overt and unconcious racism, but probably more powerful an effect is just brought by all the Hollywood stars being white. Since Hollywood doesn't need to rely on making everyone pretty, just the few stars, they can afford to pull the most attractive members despite any overall racial trends, but when the images are assimilated by the viewers, skin color is not going to be the only thing people unconsciously absorb. Body type, hair style, mannerisms, clothes, and of course wealth can be a factor. None of those factors will trump a balanced person's views, however. Some people might only date a certain race, or people with a certain amount of money, but they are by far the minority. People have much less control over attraction than they think, especially over their own.
I think Dr. Rico's post above is right about it coming down more to aesthetics and (absorbed) culture, from all the sources around them.

highthief

My wife is half-Chinese, and half-German. Not sure how her parents linked up or why, I know she has never dated an Asian guy, just Euros like me. Just her preference, just like I am attracted to Asian women.

__________________
Si vis pacem parabellum.

yosho

well, I thought I would add my two cents here since I guess this thread somewhat applies to me. I'm a male originally from Taiwan, came to the US when I was 1.

I am currently dating a white female, blonde hair, blue eyes for almost 2 years now. So when I read this thread about the high level of asian female + white male relationships, I kinda sit back and laugh because it's definitely not just the females who are into caucasians.

Well, let me say first off that personality comes first no matter what. I don't really care if a person is white or asian as long as they're compatible with me. However, when it comes to looks, I find both asians and whites attractive. I sometimes dig the petite short cute asian look, but I also like the fully developed white female look. Therefore, I basically just picked the best match for me out of my choices with race being a rather small factor. I was raised in a pretty traditional family, and while sometimes, I wish I could be with someone who had an asian background, it doesn't bother me all that much.

As for the female aspect, I have several asian female friends who are into white guys. I have no problem with that since these girls are basically what we call "white washed" in that they have assimilated into American culture so much that the only thing asian about them is their looks. If they're attracted to white guys, then that's fine, since many asian guys are attracted to white girls as well, it may not be THAT common yet...but I believe you will see a lot more asian guy + white girl relationships in the future.

Anyways, the asian girls that arn't so assimilated into american culture still prefere Asian guys. I know this because I go to Cornell University which is like 30 percent Asian and many of the girls there tell me they feel way more comfortable with an Asian guy, especially if they came to American recently. Bottom line is that no one really needs to worry about anything especially regarding race and relationships. If it works for you, then that's all that matters. As for asian guys being left out of the dating circle, I would like to say that I have never felt left out at all so this has just never been an issue for me.

nightshade000

I am a half Chinese/half Caucasion male (Who happens to be born/raised in Oregon). I have only dated caucasion females. I am typically not attracted to female asian facial bone structures (don't get me wrong, some of them are hot, I'm just speaking in general terms) and I'm definately not attracted to the (at least in part of Portland) attitudes of the majority of the asian females in the area. I do hang out with asian men, one of my best friends is full Chinese. We've gotten pretty used to what we call the "Asian Princesses" syndrome. 90% (collected by the out-of-my-ass method) of the asian women I've met that are in my age group (early-mid 20's) think they are God's gift to men because they are asian. My sister certainly thinks so. She also tends to not date 'asian' guys, well, not what people typically think of as asian anyways. She doesn't date white guys either. She is very much into dating middle eastern/western asian men.

countingsheep

i'm korean, and i have a russian boyfriend.. okay he's not russian he hates it when i say that, he's ukrainian but he SPEAKS russian. asians are really too cocky for me.. my dad once said to me "don't marry a korean guy, marry a white guy, they'll treat you the best" he said this to me when i was in 7th grade. he even said i can marry an african american guy if he treats me right! well MOST asians are really cocky and way too bold, i dont like that. i guess it's also really sterotypical of an asian to be with an asian, so i also prefer to break that. also my boyfriend is tall, i prefer tall guys, and most asians are short, so i guess that's also a factor.

__________________
lick it before you stick it

Food Reef

Rawr... first post, be gentle.

I had to post a reply in this topic, because I find everyone's insight and opinion utterly facinating.

A small note before you read... I honestly don't have any opinion on this, I was brought up about as liberally as you can get and these are simply my minor observations from my own little world.

This subject is quite relavent to me as I (Caucasian British) live in a house with two other white guys, and we are all dating Asian girls. One native Taiwanese, one godknowswhat generation Indian (essentially Indian-British) and one second generation Hong Kong (my gf).

Contrary to this evidence, I honestly don't perceve a tendency towards "white male, Asian female" couples where I live at all. I see our household as a bit of an anomaly. There is a very large Asian population in this city (largest Chinese community outside of London) and thus when you walk around specific Asian districts you would very rarely see a resident interracial couple. I.e. I see loads of Chinese-Chinese or Indian-Indian couples every day and the Asian guys don't seem to have any problem at all.

Likewise, on my university campus I see many Asian-Asian couples, especially the overseas students, hitting it off together, presumably because they share a common language and culture. Disturbingly, there are many who attend and exhibit very poor English language skills and their academic performance suffers as a result... but that's a moot point. Obviously on campus there are a lot more interracial couples because of the huge melting-pot of cultures and backgrounds but I definately wouldn't say it was biased any way in particular.

Back to my friends and I; regarding parental pressure. I know one Irish-Chinese girl who's parents are very firm on the point of her only dating Chinese guys and has little choice in the matter as they use their funding of her study in England to guilt trip her. So she's stuck with this guy who IMHO is an complete loser (he works at a call centre and his only ambition in life is to produce a web-cosmic. Which he can't even do).

The Taiwanese girl's parents strongly disapprove of her dating a white guy but being the headstrong person she is, dates my housemate behind their backs.

My other housemate's gf's parents don't give a flying fig what she does as long as she's happy. (Awwww)

My gf and I haven't been seeing each other for very long yet, but she showed her mother a random picture I took of myself on her mobile the other day and apparently commented "Just looks like any other white guy...". Slightly more to the negative side of neutral than I would have preferred but I think it'll be okay.

I've only ever dated white girls before and had some pretty bad experiences... even one case of physical abuse. I just put it down to the fact that I was so much less mature then, and didn't even know what I wanted out of a relationship (well apart from sex, maybe). It wasn't the "exotic" look of my current gf that attracted me to her (even though I think she's teh sexy! ), aside from the fact that we've got shed-loads of common interests, it was because she's the most amazing girl I've ever met. So much more open and honest than any other; I never have to second-guess her or read between the lines. I feel like I could just share thoughts with her forever. Do I think it's because she's Asian? No! It's 'cause we get on really well!

Um, well, hope you all wern't too bored reading that... that's all I've got to say for now.

__________________
Are you clinging tenaciously to my buttocks?

joeshoe

My original thought on this matter was similar to Chris's: the Western double standard coincided with the differences between Western and Asian culture. Men are seen as confident, powerful, even brash. Women are seen as submissive, obedient, servile. (Of course, these are exaggerations of more subtle undertones in American culture. And I definitely am not defending and do not agree with this double standard; yet it exists) White culture is perceived as strong and powerful, individualistic and confident. Asian culture is thought to value loyalty, obedience, and order.

As you can see, White males fully embody the masculine image (not that it's necessarily true; it's all perception), which all women would find attractive, both whites and asians. Asian culture emphasizes the "feminine" qualities of asian females (again, this perception is more likely than not false!), making them more attractive to all males, both white and asian. And so we have white male/asian female pairings, but don't see as often the asian male/white female couple. Yes, there are many asian male/white female couples, but it is clear they are not as common as the white male/asian female couple.

So that's my personal, unscientific theory; pretty much the same as Chris's.

But jorgelito's posts really made some good points. Self-hate is probably a significant cause, one that I'll have to consider more thoroughly. I'd like to commend jorgelito for his daring and provacative opinions.

Also, the lack of asian sex icons among the many white and black sex icons is another good idea I've seen in this thread.

Remember, what I talked about only dealt with perceptions, not what I actually think of the different races. I hope it didn't sound racist. But racist perceptions are still significant in modern society.

Vincentt

When I first started learning Japanese, I had a hard time remembering Japanese friend’s names. I also had a hard time telling them apart. I felt bad, but I just was not used to it.

Now I have no problem remembering such things, and am able to see Japanese girls as attractive. But seeing Asian girls as attractive was not something I noticed right away, mostly due to liking fair-skinned blood hair blue eye girls. You have to admit Asian girls are far away from this look.

My Japanese classes are wildly different though. There are students in there who you would think, have learned the language just to pick up Japanese girls. To the point where, even when an ugly (at least I find unattractive girl, it is the teeth sometimes) is around, as long as she is Asian, they go nuts.

So there is something there, that American guys want. To be fair, I have heard a few women, normally a little older; have an interest for a Japanese guy. Higher fashion awareness and “pretty Asian babies.”

Personally, the most attractive thing about Japanese girls? I have gotten more sandwiches, massages, and cookies, from my Japanese friends who are girls, then all my past girlfriends combined. They just really enjoy taking care of people, and they enjoy small things that Americans do unconsciously, like opening doors for people. These personally traits are attractive, at least in my opinion.

But as I have told some guy friends of mine, Japanese girls are cute, but not sexy. They just, on an average do not have the T and A that American girls do. Nor do they have the sexy personality that American girls do.

Anyway, this is the information I can add to this forum. From my personal experiences.

__________________
.

Hanabal

i feel i should add my bit in,

my fiance is chinese, im white. When she met me she was very sheltered and didnt know anything, so the whole penis size is irrelevant.

She also thought that chinese were the superior race as had been taught to her at school, so that theory goes out as well. She has a chinese dad.

Infact she hated the british for attacking and ripping apart her country hundreds of years ealier, as taught her at school.

I asked her why she liked me originally , and the best answer she can give is I wore a big bright red shirt the first time she saw me. She was very proud chinese and red is the national colour. random, but it worked.

__________________
I am Hanabal, Phear my elephants

KirStang

First off, let me say, welcome to the forum, it's a really great place.

However, i would like to point out some things. You live in Manchester right? Apparently, there is a China-town there, and China-towns have historically been insulated. Thus, it would make sense that the couples in there are Asian-Asian. Furthermore, you say that overseas students are hitting it off easily...are you sure that they weren't together before? And what makes you think that someone who cannot communicate with someone else (because of language barrier) will be interested in a relationshp with them?

Don't you think those are overly broad generalizations? "Chinese are a superior race."

What you're basically implying here is that Chinese people are in essence, narrow-minded and dislike other races. You are also saying that because she "had been taught at school" that it was the only societal influence on her life. What about popular culture such as magazines, newspapers, movies? Wouldn't that have influenced her, perhaps, in a more subconscious way?

Nonetheless I'm glad that you are betrothed.


It's funny you say that most asians are really cocky and way too bold. From what i've seen, asian guys tend to be subtle. And you're basically saying, "I'm dating a white guy to break the mold..." So you're supporting RAJC's theory of dating outside of a race to get the thrill....


P.S. Please do not regard these posts as flames, I am simply pointing out my opinions on previous points.

hobo

Update on my situtation (I'm asian male, dating white female)

It seems her parents disapprove of our mixed relationship, and have made it clear to her that they don't want us together anymore. I don't know what to do now, she still lives with them (campus is 10 minute drive) and they are a close family. I'm worried that if we stay together, it'll drive a wedge between her and her parents.

gentlesoul43

Here's another perspective: I asked some asian ladies friend of mine why some women prefer western men. They said that western men knows how to treat a woman right and treats them as equals. Asian men, on the other hand, can turn out to be chauvinistic and old fashioned. Truth is, asian men can still have the superior gender mindset and asian familiies, while perceived as family oriented, can tend to be reclusive, controlling and biased against the women. A lot of modern women prefer the freedom that the foreign men can give them. Most of these women are well educated and are exposed to the modern world, Which also explains why most women who prefer western men can speak english well.

Western women, on the other hand, will find difficulty adapting to the controlling asian culture. The mate may be open-minded but the family isn't. Ask your western women friends who have asian mates how they're getting along with the families, especially if they are migrants to the country.

Which also explains why the men in this forum who are born and raised in America (or UK, Australia or a western country)find it easy to go out with caucasians and have found it puzzling that some people think its a problem.

Casdin

I only skimmed the previous posts since it's too early in the morning for me to fully concentrate, but I think a lot of it has to do with asian society, at least when dealing with 1st or even 2nd generation immigrants.

My fiancee is Korean and she doesn't like asian guys because in *her experiences* the males are seen as superior to the females. She's very "americanized" because she came over when she was young, and that 2nd class citizen thing doesn't mesh well with her mindset.

.... and cause we have bigger peckers, like PhilMcGroin said

skidknee

Good points, although I do not find them completely accurate, but that is merely my opinion. The part about Asian males being old-fashioned and chauvinistic is partially true, but that's because in any culture there will be chauvinistic males. I feel as though that is still portrayed in media today as an unfair display of the typically "assumed" cultural dichotomy of the Asian male and the Asian female.

I am surprised it isn't mentioned how western males can be EQUALLY chauvinistic (or whatever negative connotation you want to use).

I admit I only skimmed through the posts, but I didn't recollect anyone mentioning the overwhelming idea of Westernization and assimilation of the Western culture? Especially for the first generations, there is an apparent change from their immigrant parents ideology. While immigrant parents may remain relatively conservative, they don't experience the assimilation to western culture as fast as the younger generation, and from the look of it, westernization of Asians through media and popular culture leaves Asian males out of the picture--for the most part.

I'm not saying that's the entire reason, but there is some truth to that. The underlying message of westernization and further assimilation of American culture is very prevalent within the Asian-American youth.

And if this helps anyone, I am Chinese, and had previously dated a Caucasian female. There was an interesting dichotomy between her family life and mine, but that was not because of some repressive patriarchal family structure, but because of the attention that was put on family life and the appreciation of family life. I treated her like a gentleman and as a equal. She did end up cheating on me, but that has no relevance to the color of her skin or American culture. Take that with a grain of salt.

Sorry for the long post.