ktthequeen

Long, depressing story short, I was raped by several guys I went to HS with when I was 17. Previously was a virgin, dealt with all that by whoring myself out, developing eating disorders and finally moving away. Last year, just a month shy of my 5 yr anniversary of the rape, I got raped by a friend of a friend of a friend.

Now, I think I've done an okay job of dealing with my head, but I did so by not getting attached and/or developing any sort of real, meaningful relationships with men or women. And now I've been dating a great guy (long-distance, although we see each other at least once a month) for about 6 months now. He knows the very brief "it happened" version of each instance, but whenever I try to discuss ANYTHING relating to this aspect of my past, it's like I'm talking to a wall. He says he wants to try and understand (and I really do believe him) but I know it makes him very uncomfortable and he says the reason he doesn't respond much when I try and talk about it is because he "knows there's nothing [he] can say to make it all go away" and stuff along those lines.

However, due to recent events, I NEED him to be there for me, to be able to talk me through stuff. I don't know if there's anyone on here who's had to deal with someone in my situation, relationship-wise, but I need some advice.

Should I just get over the fact that I'll never be able to actually talk to him about this (IE end the relationship) or what? I don't know how to help him be comfortable with it, but I don't think having a relationship with a man who cannot come to grips with my past will ever survive in the long run...

ratbastid

Okay, here's the secret about men.

Men want to fix what's wrong. Always. That's what men are about. It's why they like power tools so much.

Always fixing, fixing, fixing. It's useful! When you're talking about a house or a car, it's great to want to always be fixing!

But when you're talking about a significant other, it's not so useful! Because you know as well as I do that nothing he can do will "fix" what happened or how you reacted and responded to it. You're not looking to be "fixed". But it's all he's got.

So have a little compassion. The guy is rummaging frantically through his toolbox, and he can't find the right tool to fix your problem. It's pretty rough for him over there--which is why he shuts down when you're having that conversation.

He's going to be shocked to find out that you don't want him to fix it. Let him know that all you need for him to do is to listen and understand. He'll be very, very relieved.

Rodney

Guys don't always understand that most women need more to talk things aloud out to process them. He's maybe thinking that there's something he's supposed to do to make it all better, some thing you're asking him to take care of. And he can't figure out what it is.

Of course, you're not asking him to take care of/take charge of anything. You're talking about your feelings and asking for opinions, reality checks, and support. That's how most women do things. Took me a long time to figure that out; I thought I was being presented with a problem that I was somehow supposed to solve or make better, and it was confusing and frustrating.

So step 1 is to make clear what your expectations are when you talk about painful issues. Tell him he isn't expected to "make it all go away," but simply help you process your problem

Step 2 is to take a good look about how much you're talking about this. When something triggers a memory, do you need someone to be with you and talk you down for an hour? Two hours? If the topic keeps coming up fairly often, and at length, it may be too much for him. And he'd have some reason to feel that way. Of course, if your feelings impact your preferences in the relationship, you certainly have the right -- maybe even a duty -- to explain where your preferences are coming from.

If you're going through a bad patch right now, start seeing a therapist to get you it. If it's particularly bad, it's unfair to put all the support duties on the boyfriend. You need to be seeing a pro. At the very least, find a crisis support group.

I'm sure you're going to get a lot of different advice, especially since we don't all know that much background; each person's advice will be informed by their own background. My background includes a live-in girlfriend who needed an hour of my complete attention every night while she talked out all the traumas of her day. Then two hours. She really did have problems, but I couldn't address them and she wouldn't get help. In the end, I had to leave. It felt like I had no life anymore.

ktthequeen

For a bit more background, the only reason it's even come up at all is I received a reality check from everyone I know in this state about how my moving (running away again...blah) is retarded, yet noone knows the real reason I'm moving, which is to get away from the physical part of the memory...and he could sense that I was upset and wanted to talk about whatever was pissing me off..until he found out the topic.

Dear god I really don't make any sense. Thank you all already and in advance, for any ideas/advice. I <3 you, TFP!

CaliLivChick

I can understand the moving to get away from the physical reminders. I'm looking forward to moving away from here, as everywhere I go are reminders of my ex-best friend.

Ratbastid and his toolbox analogy hit the nail on the head (damn puns!). Your bf wants to fix what's wrong. You'll have to remind him everytime you talk to him about what's going on that you just want him to listen, you don't want him to fix things. Start every conversation with "I just want you to listen to me for awhile. There's nothing that can or needs to be fixed, I just need to get this out of my system."

We love you too, and we're glad that you feel comfortable enough to be able to share these parts of your life with us. If there's anything we can do to help, even if it's just listen, just let us know. =)

__________________
Don't trust anything that can bleed for a week and not die. Oh wait, that's me... nevermind... you can trust me.

maleficent

It's a very uncomfortable topic for some people to deal with -and they don't know what to say... Honestly, if you are talking because you need to talk about it, you really should be in an environment where people do understand.. I'd check with your local rape crisis center, or women's center and see if they have any group or individual sessions you can attend.

When you do talk to your boyfriend... what do you want him to say? How do you want him to react? Do you want him to just listen and not say anything? Or do you want him to suggest alternatives?

It's a tough thing for people who haven't been sexually assaulted to truly comprehend what it's like and the feelings that are involved... You should be able to talk to him about anything... but maybe he needs to be eased into it...

Running away isn't an answer... honestly.. sounds like you need to deal with it first... and then at that point what you share with others will fall into place...

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Mantus

I know you want support Kt but this type of emotional dependency destroys relationships unless there is a very strurdy foundation. You should be using men in your life to help you grow stronger as a person rather then a crutch to help you put up with pain from the past.

Talk to a professional about this. When things get bad, spread out the burden between your friends, family and guy, so no one person has to bear it all.

Hope this works out for you.

Spaz007

I don't think it is right to talk with someone you have been seeing for only 6 months about this kind of topic. Also, if you have only seen him 6 times that makes matters worse. One thing men hate is to hear about their SO's having sex. Sure it's cool and we pretend not to care but I think the majority of men tune out for a bit then come back in once the story is over, then laugh it off.

On top of this, you are talking about a painful memory I know, I have my share of them. He could take it as you are telling him that you would not like sex right now because you have pain over it, or that you want him to find the people who did this to you and make them pay, or maybe he has been raped and he is trying to forget himself; how are you to know, it's only been 6 months.

Painful things happened in my life. I'm going on 2 years with my girl and only now am I letting my problems out. Only now are we responsible to handle each others problems. Things take time, have fun. If it was the 6th time I met my girl and I told her about me getting raped she would have freaked. Now, she cares for me and she can cope and understands that I am talking natively with her and that there is no secret code in my story. Likewise goes for her now I can relate and we can live for each other not live in or old memories, but make new ones together.

Jinn

Ratbastid nailed it -- in conversation, men want to say the solutions, women want to console. The problem is that men typically don't want to be consoled and women typically don't want to be fixed.

On the larger issue, I agree that this is something you should be seeing a professional for. You can't expect a guy you're dating to be an expert at whatever brand of pyschology you need. Pyschologists have years of schooling to deal with things just like this.

I know that I'd have a difficult time finding a tool in my toolbox to deal with a problem like this. Rape makes me incredibly uncomfortable, and I'm not the best at consoling.

You can talk to him about it, but don't go in expecting that he's going to be able to listen with an open mind. I bet it's hard for you to talk about it - it's likely even harder for him to listen to it.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

Buk

Why do you need to talk to him in depth about this?

As a man the subject of rape makes me uncomfortable, I am glad my SO never had your circumstances and I'm sorry you did. I can't imagine that your boyfriend who looks at you as an incredibly sexy person wants to think about you being gang raped or raped, its often hard enough (for some guys) to know that your SO has been with other men let alone in a situation like that.

You really should be discussing this in detail for theurapeutic reasons with a rape councelor.

Man, I just got done watching the General's daughter yesterday, rape fucks you up if you can't move past it.

water_bug

This seems to be one of those things that you just can't understand unless it has happened to you. Maybe try to put it in a context he can understand better.

JustJess

Okay, everyone, HANG ON a second.

1. Doesn't sound like KT wants to use SO for a therapist, it just sounds like she wants to be able to discuss things that come up in relation to her history without him clamming up/freaking out. Fair enough.

2. I'm betting you already know you need some professional support. Don't be shy now, y'hear?

3. What the hell is all this "as a man it makes me uncomfortable" crap? You know what? Too bad. Rape sucks. No one likes to talk about it, no one likes to be confronted with this. And IT IN NO WAY COMPARES TO SOMEONE'S REGULAR SEXUAL HISTORY, IT IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT AND SHE WOULD BE A FOOL TO NOT BE HONEST ABOUT BEING RAPED WITH A PERSON SHE INTENDS TO BE INTIMATE WITH. It's too important, and it's too fucking scary, to NOT be honest about. And how dare you people even put it in the same boat as "guys don't like to know you've slept around" bullshit misogyny?

4. 6 months is too soon? Too fucking bad. If he can't handle it now, he never will and she deserves more. You boys are fucking this one up big time, you big pussies.

5. That being said, Ratbastid is, as usual, totally on point about the average good man just wanting to fix what's wrong. Yes, do let him know that you're just venting frustrations. They happen to relate to people not getting that you need some distance from the situation.

6. I'd move from the area too. Location memories are fucking hard to disassociate, and that makes sense to me. But don't go alone. FYI... the memories will eventually stop screaming, but there will always be echos. But you knew that.

*smooches* KT, you're going to be okay.

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My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

Cynthetiq

She stated,"However, due to recent events, I NEED him to be there for me, to be able to talk me through stuff."

Talk you through what? What is he responsible for in your psychological well being in a 6 month relationship? Are you engaged, betrothed, common law married, destined to be married? Otherwise, why is it his baggage to deal with now? I'm of the opinion at this point in time he still has choice to decide if he wants to deal with it or not. Now I'm not suggesting that he vacate the relationship because he can't deal with you, on the contrary maybe he too needs to go to counselling to learn how to deal with this.

He should have some as well since he needs to understand how to deal with your situation. Family and friends of alcoholics have alanon, the idea is similar.

While you may not like it, it is so. Guys have a hard time understanding feelings period, let alone nuances of feelings. They can't tell the difference between green and teal, purple and lavender, blue and periwinkle. While she needs to be honest, the SO may also have a say in here as to whether or not he can deal with this honestly. Ultimately it boils down to communication between the two of you. While you may be getting guidance here, he too needs to get his own guidance.

He may not have had any experience with it. IT doesn't make it a fuck up, it's how people learn. I'd have to go with possibly the idea that is going around this boy's head could be,"Great, now I'm stuck what the hell do I do now, if I leave her now I'm an asshole." So now he feels compelled to stay with her when in reality he doesn't want to not because of this reason but because of other reasons of incompatibility.

Boys can and will decide for themselves what they are willing to deal with, from a person's past to their eating habits. Your "6 months" statement sounds like now he's stuck in this situation and no longer has freedom of choice to decide if he can or wants to deal with this, to decide for himself if he wants to stay or leave the relationship.

And he needs to be able to vent his frustrations as well. He needs to be able to say, "I cannot be there for you at this moment. I need to regroup myself so that I can be there for you."

Agreed to a point, I'm of the firm opinion that "Where ever you go there you are." Geographical solutions to problems you have with your own self will continue to manifest themselves where ever you go.

Now, ultimately it's not your responsibility to help him figure out how to communicate with you. It's *HIS* responsibility. You trying to figure it out is you controlling it when it's not yours to control.

My suggestion is that you both go to counselling, individually and together. While the group conscious here is well and good, I think that this situation is too fragile for the nuances of the individuals, there's too many details that we do not know nor ever will.

To share my own experience, I never met someone who was raped until I moved to NYC, and turned out it a girl I was dating admitted to me that she was raped in the past. I was celibate at the time, so sexual intimacy wasn't an issue for me.

But I was ill equipped to deal with the emotional roller coaster she was on. She'd start crying uncontrollably when we'd just be sitting together. Sometimes she'd start crying as we were kissing. We'd talk about it as much as she was willing but again, I was and (am still) ill equiped in dealing with the matter. We dated for about 6-8 months.

I tried best as I could to just be there, but ultimately I determined that I just couldn't deal with other things about our relationship such as the fact she was geographically undesireable (lived on one end of the F train and I lived on the other) was much more intwined with her family than I wanted from an SO, etc. I spoke to her about it frankly and honestly making sure she understood that it wasn't about her admission to being raped.

Ironically she and I are still friends after 10 years, but we decided to leave the relationship stuff behind us. I don't know what she did for the man she dated after me who she eventaully married, but I have faith that they discussed it at great length.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

cierah

I don't agree because my issues have made me freak out and do things that had the bf not know about my past he would have been scared/worried/upset. I'm sure he still was those things during my crazy but at least he had some foundation of knowledge.

__________________
"You can close your eyes to reality but not to memories" -Stainslaw J. Lec

Spaz007

Ouch! Seems one sided (more below)

I agree to a point, but my concern comes from a relationship of 6 months where they have only seen each other 6 times (once a month), or a long distance relationship. Things take time and only if I am active in a persons life do I feel ready to assist them. This also comes with understanding the person and choosing the right things to say or learn what the best course of action is for them. Another concern is his feelings, if he locks up agian he may have a similar problem one he is not ready to admit or deal with. I think these all should be thought of.

ktthequeen

Aye!

Ok, talking me through stuff was not me wanting to go through all the dirty, gory details...FAR from it. The TWO times I've brought it up were 1) after I was discussion with him my move and 2) after he said something that inadvertantly made me uncomfortable.

As for the time I actually see him face-to-face, I see him AT LEAST once a month for 4-5 days at a time. His job brings him out more, but it's entirely dependant on the customers so we never know far in advance.

Meh, whatever. I didn't really get any actual advice other than seeing a therapist and not using him as one (duh...). My only hope was that someone had dated someone in a similar situation and had some advice, to where I can even say the fucking WORD "rape" or even the word "PAST" in relation to my life without the response of silence. I know, I know, I asked but I just don't feel anywhere near supported...and thus don't care.

Thanks for the few who seem to understood...

maleficent

In a perfect world, how would you like for him to react when you do bring up the subject?

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ktthequeen

Just listen and say "yeah" or maybe "uh-huh", or if he wants to get more involved in the topic, say SOMETHING constructive. Nothing much.

Cynthetiq

so then why aren't you expressing that to him?

but see again, he doesn't know what that SOMETHING is that is constructive, what he possibly thinks could be constructive could potentially be a land mine for you.

To be fair how will he know what something could be that makes you uncomfortable? In situations where I am not socialized for or well versed for I either withdraw into silence or complete avoidance.

I never knew what I could or could not say with this particular lady. I never knew what would or wouldn't set her off emotionally. Sometimes it would be fine one time, and the next it wasn't. It made it very challenging.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

thed00t

I think Ratbastid nailed it on the head.

I feel frusterated talking with women sometimes because I want to offer all of this advice, but I know better that most of them don't want it. They just want to vent and be intimate. Which is fine.

However it still puts me in a feeling of slight helplessness because you can't fix their problem.

Talking to a guy about rape is like talking to a cat about astronaughts. We just aren't going to understand. As a guy, I can assume I know what you went through, but having never felt that level of helplessness or vurnerability I'm going to be like a deer in headlights if the subject is brought up.

It may not be his comfort leverl. Most guys I know don't feel right talking about shit they don't know about. Some really annoying guys do, and will go on and on about bullshit they have no idea about. But those guys with self respect and respect for others won't try and fake it when they just don't have a clue.

It probably isn't that he doesn't want to be invovled in the conversation, but that he is incapable of coming up with anything to say that doesn't make him feel like a jack ass. I think I would feel kinda dumb if a girl I cared about was talking to me about a subject like that and all I could do was nod and say uh-huh.

Another thing is that he might be desperately trying to come up with something "right" to say that he completely zones out on the rest of what you are saying. I've done that before accidently. Sometimes it's hard to come up with the right words when dealing with subjects you just don't understand so you spend more time on that, opposed to the person talking to you.

You may need to accept that this is his way of listening to you.

My advice to you is: Structure the conversation in a manner that he can be invovled in. Instead of explaining past scenarios, try talking in examples about how you feel. Create a metaphor or an alagory for the topic you want to discuss, such as how you feel about your experience, and then relate that to him in question format. That way he can be invovled by answering YOUR questions instead of being blindsided by a topic he can never possibly understand the way you do.

To appeal to the male mind, you want him to know he is helping, that is responsible for "Fixing something" as ratbastid mentioned. Maybe that is him just listening. Maybe that involves more. The onus is on YOU to tell him what YOU want out of those conversations.

Toaster126

I have had a relationship with someone who had been raped in two seperate occasions in her past, like you have. I realized that there wasn't anything I could do to fix her really early on, so I didn't try. I just listened and tried to understand.

Like a few others have mentioned, if you use your SO as a therapist, it might work for you but he will most likely resent it, as I did. It was definitely unconcious resentment for a while for me. She certainly got over her issues she had, but it damaged our relationship because I felt that I was giving and giving without enough recripication. And, being the nice guy that I am, I realized what was happening and kept it to myself, because I knew that she needed those talks with someone she was comfortable with more than I needed to not have those feelings.

I think this "shutting down" you mention is simply the beginning of this. It's probably a better way of handling it than I did, which was to help her, then later realize I was helping her at the cost of my own happiness. Of course, the best way would be for you to tell him what he needs to know, and save the rest of it for a therapist.

In conclusion, chill out on the boardmembers who aren't telling you what you want to hear, keep a therapist and a SO, and don't have them be the same person.

__________________
"The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand)
"The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

MSD

I fully agree with ratbastid on this. In addition, the concept of sexual vulnerability is foreign to most guys. We can't even begin to know what it feels like to have to worry about rape, nevermind actually have to deal with the aftermath. To continue ratbastid's analogy here, not only is he unable to find the right tool in his mental toolbox, he doesn't even know what the thing looks like or what it does.

He knows that he doesn't know what he can do to help, and it scares the hell out of him that he can't figure out how to help you, the person closest to him, get over the most horrible and traumatic thing that could happen to you. Rape is the atomic bomb of personal trauma, and all he knows how to do is duck and cover.

Toaster126

Let's not get crazy here...

__________________
"The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand)
"The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

vanblah

Are you saying that men can't be raped? I speak from personal experience here ... YES, we can.

As for the topic on hand here. It's been said numerous times: Ratbastid is correct. Men want to fix things. The only way to deal with that is to tell your SO that you just want him to listen and acknowledge. When he starts to try to "fix" it, gently remind him that you don't need to be fixed. Gently.

Also, the onus is not just on your SO. You have to acknowledge that he may not always react the way you would like.

It has taken me years to work this out with my wife, but our relationship became "better" when we figured it out.

Remind him you just want him to actively listen to you. The key word is "actively."

MSD

I would say that the percentage of men who fit into my blanket statement is a number containing several 9s and not much else.

Swirlie

I think this has been said in this thread (although not clearly) so...

I think you need to really express yourself and tell him you just need to be listened to. That's it. Full Stop. No "I think..."... No "If I were you..." Just shut up, listen, and then cuddle.

He needs to understand you. If he feels uncomfortable, let him know that it's part of you. The same way you would tell him you hate pork and beans, or that you love chocolate. It's part of the package. If he can't deal with it, it's on him.

The best thing I ever learned from an ex (unfortunately) was that I didn't always have to comment on what she was telling me... or try to fix it. Sometimes... I just needed to shut my damn mouth and open my damn ears.

It's NOT easy for us men to do...

ktthequeen

Thanks. I've followed this thread but not really responded since it initally upset me. After my intial post, he called and apologized for his lack of understanding and we had the "I just need you to listen" talk. Worked wonders. Thanks everyone.