Cowman

How much is too much?

I work out usually 5 times a week, is this hampering my progress? I use a 4 day "split", so im only working certain muscles at the most twice a week.....but I just read an article where this guy was claiming that you should only work out a max 3 times a week, and only do 2 or 3 excersizes per muscle group? Currently, I do about 5-6 exersizes(having trouble spelling this word :P) per muscle group..

for example
today I did chest/triceps

I did incline dumbbell press
flat dumbbell press
decline bench
bench

for chest

for chest/triceps I did dips

then for triceps I did :

extensions
skull crushers
tricep pulldown,
and something else im not sure what the name of it is.......

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ronan

It really all depends on your own body everyone is different, i have always used high volume and works for me.... with that split you should be fine just keep your calories up otherwise you wont gain to much muscle.

Also if you are a beginner i would not recommend doing chest/triceps together, as when you workout your chest your tris also come into play and by the time you finish your chest workout your tris are already fatigued.

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Phaenx

That workout's good for one day, but when do you do it again? Same day next week or before that?

I mostly hear you want 5-7 exercizes per muscle group.

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Cowman

Well I have a 4 day split, so I'll do it again in at the least 4 days from now. I usually work out

Saturday
Sunday
Monday
Wednesday
Thursday

so being that I worked my chest/triceps on Saturday, I'll be doing them again on thursday. And then again the following Wednesday..

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Cowman

Also, should I be doing both squats and legpress, or just squats?

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blahblah454

okay i do almost THE EXACT (!!!) same thing as you! heh and it works great! the only thing that i see wrong is that you are only waiting like 4-5 days or so between each muslte group. wait AT LEAST 1 week for each muslte group to give it time to heal, like chest/tri on mon, bicep wednesday, back/shoulders friday and stick with that each week, these days are just something i threw out there but try to make a schedual out of it! i got huge results from doing that, but lately ive been too busy but i want to start up again

DirtyVegas

i agree with ronan.

my workouts go...
Mon. Chest and Bicep
Wed. Back and Tricep
Fri. Legs and Shoulders

It allows plenty time for recovery, which i think is the key part of lifting/workout

...i also train in Brazilian JiuJitsu/NHB/MMA 4-5 days a week, so that does quite a number with my cardio and conditioning.

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ComradeJoe23

Right now I'm doin:

Monday: Chest
Tuesday: Arms/shoulders
Wednesday: Hamstrings/ass/calves
Thursday: Back/lats
Friday: Chest
Saturday: Quads/calves
Sunday: Day of rest

I've been noticing phenomonal gains in my training in only a few months. However I am 18, not sure how old you are, so my body does repair quickly, and I also sleep A LOT.

However, each day I keep my number of sets to like 12-16 per body part and never go over. If I do, that would be overtraining. I used to do like over 20 sets each time I went to the gym, and when I cut back, I started experiencing muscle gains.

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ComradeJoe23

Cowman, how many sets did you do of each? You should also think about doing some dumbbell flyes instead of all pressing exercises so you can get width to your pecs.

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PDOUBLEOP

I'm with blah! My workout is very close. Once per group per week. I was wondering if you combine pushing exercises on one day and pulling on another? My workout: Monday chest/tri=pushing Wed. back/bicep=pulling Friday shoulders/legs.
I like this method of combining to make sure the muscle groups are fatigued and with my workout, you couldn't do it more than once/week.

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bookerV

yeah i always try to wait at least a week in between working a muscle group again. i notice that i get better results when i give a muslce enough rest. currently i'm on a 5 day split, but i take every 2nd or 3rd day off. here are my days.

1 - chest
2 - back
3 - legs
4 - shoulders
5 - arms

but with the break every day or two it really helps to give the muscles the time they need to recover. In highschool i used to train 6 or 7 days a week on a 4 day split and work out for around 2 hours at a time. i got cut very quickly but i did not experience very good muscle gains. i would definitely take the resting time your body needs to rebuild itself.

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imp

I go 100 bicep curls plus 100 situps and 100 pushups. Follow it by around an hour or more of running a few dips and then I drink some coke.. few candy bars and my work out's done for the day.. my results are alright.. relatively strong..I just recently started doing the bicep curls and I like to do it every other day now. Unfortunatly for me.. my love of running has made it very very hard to gain weight and muscle mass ='(

cait987

........

Not even in the mood, never give advice again mr rookie.

To the question at hand, Pretty much its up to you to decide when your overtraining, most people can get away with different things depending on many different circumstances:

New to weight lifting: Your body reacts positively, you can recover as fast as in 24 hours from a intense weight lifting session due to your bodys attempt to adapt and the expended energy to do this, most of the time this is the best muscle gain in your life and can last from 2 months to a year depending on the person.

Calories: these are what really make or break weight lifting, pretty much some peoples bodys respond to weight training depending on calories, if you are in a calorie deficit (or losing weight) then you may have to cut back on the weights due to the massive training expenditure of calories + your natural deficincy your body may not have enough energy to allow the muscle to recover

However, this is a double edged sword, in the same way a person can also recover faster if they are in a surplus because of the bodys extra calories it has calories to use for recovery and you can normally recover quicker lift heavier and just feel better in general, dont try and push it however a 4 day lifting routine split right shouldnt be overtraining in a surplus however, in a deficincy your body is already under alot of strain and if you give it the impression its being overworked/in a famine you could have negative effects.

Movement amount For the most part, alot of the muscles in the body are used for almost every lift, however some are focused on, for example doing bench press/incline/dips on monday, then deadlifts/pull-ups on tuesday, and then work the triceps with decline tricep pulls or something of the sort on wednesday and then you work again on thursday with bench/incline/dips, you risk overtraining, why? Because even if the main muscle target in the tuesday and wednesday lift isnt the biceps, your muscle is being used in all 3 and is being targeted quite a bit and your body can be overtrained and not have time to recover if the same muscle is overworked to much, which may stop progress or even cause muscle loss.

Pretty much, no one can say your overtraining its up to the person to decide where the line is drawn, IMHO if your not going to failure and get adequete rest a person can handle 4-5 days a week however, just be careful if you feel no desire to lift/dont recover quick/no muscular gains, take a week off and look over your routine because chances are your overtraining ..

ComradeJoe23

LOL

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imp

that really hurts man.. I will seek revenge katey!

ComradeJoe23

Imp, I hope that's not really your workout routine...

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Cowman

He's probably joking.

Comrade, I do about 4 sets of bench, 4 of incline dumbbells, and 3 of each of the other. I'll start throwing in some flys..maybe I'll get someone at the gym to show me how to do them properly. Do you know if the Pec-deck is even worth doing? I know that a lot of the machines don't do much, but I seem to be partial to the pec-deck for some reason..

Also, im trying to cut up a bit so I changed my routine to:

Sun - cardio
Mon - back/bi + less cardio
Tues - (hockey)
Wed - chest/tri + less cardio
Thur - legs + less cardio
Fri - cardio
Sat - shoulders/abs + less cardio

by less cardio, I mean less then on my cardio days.


ps. Im also 18 and have played a lot of sports, so while it may seem like "too much" cardio or whatever..I don't believe that it will be for myself. I've done similar levels of cardio(albeit without the weight lifting) in the past..

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imp

..it really is my workout..... *looks at you people strangely*
what's wrong with it!?!?!?!?!! Cowman you got urself a nice lookin workout if I might say so myself.. Don't you get confused as to what day ur on thou!?

limey

I used to do pretty much what everyone else is doing here (except imp) until I read about the toll your nervous system takes aswell as your muscles after working out. When I work out I work REALLY hard and I would give my muscles ample time to recover but I would usually lack energy and motivation as the week progressed. I found that even though my muscles are recovering, my nervous sytem was not able to fully recover. I then changed my workout so that I work my WHOLE body in one session and then take the next day off completely. I found that I was not continually drawing from my nervous system and I was able to recover really well. It has to be said, just like everyone else has done, that you should read and try as much as you can and then do what works for your own body because only you really knows how your body is reacting. Rest is key and is muchly overated.

ComradeJoe23

Cow, you definately need to do flyes. Pec Dec is worth doing, it isolates the muscles inbetween the pecs when you flex them together really hard. If I was you, I would start with incline and do 4 sets, then do flat and do 4 sets, decline 4 sets and finish with flat bench flyes 3-4 sets.

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ibis

I typically do:

Day one: Upper body / Jog 3 miles
Day two: Lower body (lay off the joging cause my legs are sore)
Day three: Jog 3 miles

Should I be seperateing my upper body into seperate workouts like others are doing? Should I give myself more time to recover?

I typically find the 2 days off to be plenty of time to recover.

I will admit though since doing this I haven't gained all that much muscle or lost allot of fat.

coash

hi...just wanted to say there is no separate muscle between your pecs - your chest is a whole muscle

also - decline doesn't do anything more that flat already does. you can't target the lower chest more than other parts.

ComradeJoe23

No i meant it kinda makes the inner pec tight, not that there is some sort of imaginary muscle between the pecs.

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stevie667

5 times a week is really a rather large amount.

Think of it this way, even if your only doing certain muscle groups once, twice or three times a week, your liver, kidneys, heart and other organs are going all the time.
They need as much time as your muscles to recover.

Personally, i'm an advocate for 3 days a week, on alternate days and having two days off at the end of the week to rest. I max myself out on the exercise days, and it seems to be doing wonders.

fypon

From my experience and from the input I have seen at anabolicreview you don’t want to work out more than two days in a row.

Here is the thinking behind it. If you don’t work your muscles enough you wont really get nice gains. If you over train you will do more harm then good and the muscles will actually shrink. You need to give your muscles time to heal and grow. I have made some real progress with a 3 day work out Mon, Wen Fri more so than any routine I have ever done with not nearly the intensity.

One thing you should be more concerned about it diet. This plays more of a role than any part of your routine. If your body does not have the materials to build the muscles you wont gain much.
Tons and tons of protein. Tuna fish, nuts, steak, eggs, shakes, high protein foods are going to help immensely.

Don’t take my word for it though do some searches you will find tons of information out there.

Your routine is good; just break it up so you aren’t working out more than two days in a row. It is ok to have a rotation in your schedule; it does not have to be the same muscles on the same day week after week. Limit your workouts but hit it hard when you do.

Focus on your diet you will see your best gains if you do.

Good luck

Ilow

of course it does, although it is still part of the pectoralis, it is a slightly different part, (just as the upper portion that is hit by the incline press) and needs work as well to achieve maximum symmetry. I would recomend keeping the decline in any chest workout along with the aforementioned incline and flat presses and flys.

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coash

How does it?

Tell me, how decline bench press works the lower portion of the chest more than the others? If you can target this 'lower chest' area, how come people who just do decline don't have this part sticking out protruding way more than the other parts?

If you have a look at the chest anatomy, there's a clavical and sternal head. the sternal is most of the chest, which is already worked by flat.

Upper/lower portion is hit by different angles, but it is wrong to say incline/decline/anyotherangle isolates the upper/lower portion.

Ilow

it is wrong to say that the decline ISOLATES the lower portion of the pec, that's why i didn't say it. it is important to work muscles from a variety of angles so that they achieve their maximum fullness. and in answer to your question, i do not know of anyone who does only decline presses, but if they did, they would probably have a strangely developed shelf-like chest.

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coash

i'll just answer the question then. the reason why people do decline/incline is because it recruits more fibres than flat bench. all i'm saying is that doing all incline/flat/decline is unnecessary.

And no, if someone just did decline presses they wouldn't have a shelf-like chest. the reason being the body prevents that part from growing as it will lead to injury. the body is a self surviving mechanism, it will not activate hypertrophy in parts where it will prone itself to injury.