The Swing Set - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Sultana · 12-17-2005, 07:28 AM

OK, I'm hoping the Swinging ladies (and men, viewpoints posted via a mod) of TFP can tell me about it.
This is the first place I've met folks who swing who I've gotten to know well enough to ask, so I want to take advantage of the opportunity.

How did you first get into it?
How did the SO respond initially?
How long have you been doing it?
Any problems or pitfalls?
What are the benefits?
What kind of ground rules do you have?
How do you deal with the possibility of STDs?

And any other pertinent info.

Just curious about alternative lifestyles, heh. Thanks in advance.

fyrehair · 12-18-2005, 08:31 PM

Hello and welcome to the wonderful world of swinging! I've been a swinger for a little over a year now. My bf & I are one of the host couples for our local swing club. (We greet people, answer questions, try to make people feel comfortable, etc.)

I first got into it with my bf at a friend's wedding, of all places! Actually, it was after the reception, and it was us, another couple and the newlyweds left. We all were getting very friendly and things progressed naturally. That was about 4 yrs ago.

My bf was the one that brought up the subject of swinging. A friend of ours had friends that were opening a club in our city and she invited us to go, meet the owners, and help out. That first dance was almost a disaster for me! My bf was having a great time. I, on the other hand, was trailing him like a lost puppy. I almost cried near the end of the night. The idea of the whole thing seemed to overwhelming. I think I was just very nervous.

My bf & I haven't had too many problems, just because we communicate well and stick to our ground rules. Our rules are:
1. We play together. If one person doesn't want to play, then the other doesn't get to. And we don't go to separate rooms.
2. We communicate. If one doesn't like something, or just isn't comfortable, we say something. Don't bottle it up.

We like to get to know who we would like to play with. That's one way we deal with STD's. Also, always use condoms. Don't let anyone talk you out of them.

We have met some really great people and had some great parties. I can't imagine not being a part of this lifestyle. If you decide to become a swinger, check out a swinger club near you or a swinger website. That's a great way to see what the lifestyle can hold for you. Good luck, have fun and just be honest with yourself and those around you.

shesus · 12-18-2005, 08:32 PM

I am also interested in how people handle the swinging situation in their relationship. I am assuming that trust, commitment, and communication are very important. I also think that both people have to be willing and curious in the beginning. I don't think that you can take a person who never thought about being a swinger and make them one. Of course that is my theory. I know that personally, at this point in time, I couldn't imagine another woman with jj. However, I could see myself with another woman and we have discussed this and are considering what the implications may be.
I guess to piggyback on Sultana's questions what are upsides and downsides of swinging or having open relationships? Also, if the spouse knows of the relationship and is ok with it...is it cheating?

cellophanedeity · 12-18-2005, 09:24 PM

My love and I aren't quite swingers, but we are open to trying things.

So far we've had two people join us (on two different occasions) and no actual penetration happened. It was more along the lines of naked making out and playing and all of that.

Well, I guess I must have been in grade eleven when we first tried playing with another person. We first got into it because I just wanted to try being with a woman, and both Simon and I have always liked the idea of group sex. I've always been flirty with my other female friends, and it just happened that one of those flirtations led to more. Neither of us really quite enjoyed the experience, but it was because of the partner more than the idea.

The second time was kind of strange. I went to school with Simon once, and at the end of the day one of his friends just told us that she wanted us. So we set up a time and place and got together. We could tell that she was uncomfortable, and things just weren't going well so not much happened beyond making out. The second time we got together, it was similar except more nakedness. The third time, we came to the realization that she's not queer at all and just wants my boyfriend. Yet again, Simon and I didn't really enjoy the experience, but because of the partner not the idea.

As we didn't ever get very far, we didn't really worry too much about STDs. I mean, I asked the first girl about herpes and if she had been tested recently and all of that, and she promised she was clean (we were friends, I trusted her) just in case.

Hopefully in the near future, a very close friend of ours may be joining us. We've put a lot more thought into this, and both Simon and I are close with the guy.

The only real ground rules are that condoms must be used if any sort of penetration is going to occur, and that if at any point in time no matter what has been said or done, if someone feels even slightly uncomfortable we either return to a good comfort level, or we stop entirely.

Simon and I have a level of communication that would make any therapist proud. We know what the other is and is not comfortable with, and we completely understand eachother non-verbally.

I guess another good bit about it is that I really want him to make himself as happy as possible. If he finds someone he thinks he'd be happier with, then I don't want to hold him back. That, and I know he loves me more than any other woman. *laughs*

so I guess that basically answers the question.

SiN · 12-19-2005, 12:45 AM

I received this post via pm from one of our fine male members.
It is, I think, rather thoughtful and mature.

Quote:

"Cheating" is a very individual concept to define. Each individual relationship can and should define it with respect to their own needs and desires. To some people, cheating is any sort of sexual contact with another person, while to others cheating is only sexual contact without the knowledge of the other partner but beyond that anything goes. The point is, there is no technicality regarding what cheating is and isn't. Cheating is whatever you and your partner have discussed is not something the two of you are comfortable with. I don't think it's healthy to look beyond your own needs and desires to define cheating because then you are letting other people define your relationship rather than defining it as a couple and something unique to you.

While I am not in a swinging relationship, the general idea has been discussed for a fair amount of time and we have set ground rules in case the opportunity arises. That is absolutely key. For example, we recognize that as things progress we might get more comfortable with loosening the rules, but for now we have pretty strict rules. Basically, it amounts to she can fool around with a woman all she wants but I can't do anything and she can't fool around with a man. Is this "fair?" Of course not! But, swinging or open relationships are not about fairness or equality. It is about being receptive to your partner's feelings and needs. The simple truth is, we know that right now I could handle her with another women easily, but she would have a difficult time handling me with another woman. I am more than happy with only hearing about her and another woman or maybe seeing it because it both turns me on and I know it would be pleasing to her. So, beyond the communication, I think it is very important to keep in mind that things may not be "fair" in a situation like this. If both people aren't able to understand and accept this, and make the sacrifices necessary for the safety of their own relationship, it is not something they should partake in at that time.

Like I said, we haven't had the opportunity to explore with anyone else yet, but we are already aware and prepared for the fact that the first time will not be a perfect experience. It's impossible to know how you will react until after the line has been crossed, and that is when open and honest communication is most important. We've had all our lives to be told that relationships are between two people and that, when in a committed relationship, you're not supposed to have sexual contact with other people. Breaking through that is not easy. If we ever get the opportunity to explore more, I may find that I have a certain jealousy that I didn't expect, or perhaps she may find that she feels a guilt that she didn't expect. It is extremely important to talk openly and honestly after the experience about how each of you feels. There will almost certainly be some negative emotions that weren't expected, and the only way to get through them is to discuss them and realize where they come from. Oprah, believe it or not, had an episode about swingers a little while ago and she had some swingers on her show. I think this one couple put it very well: it is like a magnifying glass on your relationship. It will bring out all the little issues that you didn't think you had. If you can't or won't be willing to face mixed emotions after first getting started, swinging or experimenting isn't for you.

As for the benefits, I have heard of many. One swinging couple on Oprah, for example, mentioned that their one-on-one sex is better because of swinging. I'd imagine a major reason for this is that, especially with a healthily married couple, there is an intense bond which is simply not there with other people. Separating the love from sex while swinging doesn't mean it is separated from sex while alone and with one another. Personally, thinking about my girlfriend with another woman turns me on quite a bit and it makes me want to have sex with her too.

Swinging or open relationships aren't for everyone though. Like I said, if you're not willing to face the fact the first few experiences will NOT be perfect and that it WILL bring to light some issues which you may not have realized you had, it's not a good idea to do it. Bringing other people in sexually can and will destroy a relationship that does not have totally open and honest communication, and even with great communication it will at least initially create a need for a LOT of discussion. There's no such thing as being over-prepared for it, but there's also no such thing as being fully prepared. There will almost certainly be issues which you never expected. That said, I believe that if you have a healthy, open, and honest relationship and are willing to address the feelings that will arise from exploring with other people, it can be a very fulfilling and pleasurable experience! Part of the reason I'm confortable with entertaining the idea with my own girlfriend is because I know that, despite being sexually interested in other women, I will always have the most love for her and want to be with her. Similarly, I am confident that, even though she may be sexually interested in other men or women, she will always value our relationship above all else.

raeanna74 · 12-19-2005, 10:04 AM

How did you first get into it?
Dei37 (hubby) and I got into swinging about a year after he had a serious head injury. We had multiple reasons for getting into but one of them was a direct result of his injury. He nearly died so for him he was living on borrowed time and wanted to make the most of THIS life while he could. For me I was just glad to till have him and wanted to make him happy and enjoy everything we could together. I think it was mostly an attitude of having already lived our married life together and this was something extra and we wanted to enjoy it to it's fullest.

How did the SO respond initially?
Dei37 was the one that brought up the subject first. I was adamantly against it. We had both been raised in extremely strict religious housholds and I felt that the subject was taboo. After catching him looking at porn and not feeling strongly about that (I had sneaked it myself in earlier years) we began to discuss sexual subjects more. Even with that openness it too me almost a year of discussion and learning what I could about the lifestyle before I was comfortable enough to try it.
When we finally tried it we met another local couple with the expectation that we would only discuss things, get to know them and then if I (since I was the most afraid of the 4 of us) was ok with it we could go farther and kiss or actually play. When we met we did talk a lot. They answered a lot of my questions and we DID end up playing. Hubby and I BOTH loved it and from then on we've enjoyed it with only one big bump in the road.

How long have you been doing it?
For nearly 4 years. I think it will be 4 years this spring. If I remember right it was sometime around my Birthday that we tried it the first time.

Any problems or pitfalls?
*Swinging will not fix a bad relationship. There are always exceptions to this rule but for the most part it is a consistant rule. Never expect it to fix the relationship.
*Respect is VERY important. If you cannot respect your partners feelings of discomfort about any particular situation then you are headed for big trouble.
*Communication is crucial. If you cannot TALK about your feelings about different situations then your partner cannot ease any anxieties that you have. Also you need to be sure of your love for each other or there is bound to be some jealousy.
*No means No. If you go to any parties and even when meeting another couple you must respect this rule. Most clubs have this as one of the most important rules. If you cannot respect your partner or others and listen when they say no about anything you are doing then you will not succeed in the lifestyle.

What are the benefits?
*I have become more comfortable in my skin, being naked.
*I have learned that there are a LOT more body types out there than we ever really see and Mine is not really ugly but rather unique.
*Hubby and I have learned sexual tricks and fun things that we can do at home in bed. Things we would not have really learned in the Kama Sutra. Some things you just have to try to know how they'll work.
*Hubby and I have learned to trust each other more.
*We have learned to communicate more. Men don't enjoy TALKING about their feelings as much as women do in general. BUT when communicating their feelings means they get to have more sex or sex with more women they (or at least hubby and a few other swinger women have told me their hubby's are the same) tend to be more vocal about their feelings. BIG plus in our relationship.
*Variety is the spice of life. We had already tried a LOT of things sexually but being able to swing with other people keeps our sex with each other more interesting. It's not the same Sex every time we have it. It makes, keeping sex fun, a much easier thing to do.

What kind of ground rules do you have?
*No sex with anyone without prior approval from our partner.
*No sex with anyone who is hiding it with their SO.
*If one of us needs to stop and go home - We STOP and go home. We haven't really had this problem arise but if you don't have it then someone can end up feeling uncomfortable, disrespected, or downright unloved.
*Some couples have the rules...1. Sex ONLY in the same room -partly this is because some couples swap partners for the voyouristic aspect of watching their partner. 2. No kissing - Some couples feel like they should save some part of the sexual experience for their SO only. This is a common rule. Not a rule we go by personally.

How do you deal with the possibility of STDs?
You cannot completely get away from this possibility. BUT we personally get tested for the range of diseases every 6 mo or so. We have been pretty lucky. If we ever got anything we would stop swinging until we'd finished treatment or permanently depending on what we'd caught. The prevelance of HIV in Wisconsin in general let alone in the swinger population in Wisconsin is fairly low. I don't know the exact numbers but I found the general infected population number for Wisconsin on the CDC's website recently. As for other diseases - Herpes is the only other STD that is incurable. Some couples use condoms on a regular basis and this is how we started out. Both of us are allergic to Latex and the other types are quite expensive. We also don't enjoy the hassle of it. We know a number of couples who willingly share their medical status with us. We also know one swinger couple that got a minor STD and contacted us ASAP to inform us. They are clear of it now but do not swing anymore. This is something you will have to decide on your own. IF I were planning to have anymore children I would be more concerned. If I were trying to get pregnant or already pregnant I would not swing because many STD's can cause problems or even be fatal to infants at birth, even when birthed by C-section.
*Some people require condoms some do not. Because of our sensitivity to Latex we make sure we have with us some poly type any time that we meet people.

What are upsides and downsides of swinging or having open relationships?
It is a large part of my life that I cannot share with my family. My parents are extemely religious and my mother would be nearly vicious if she knew what we were doing. My brother is aware of what we do and completely ok with it but he has considered the possibility with his wife. Their relationship is not what is should be and probably never will be strong enough to handle a swinging relationship.
If you do not have an open minded Dr, which we do now, you could end up with the type of situation I had when I had a Dr who strongly disapproved of swinging. She actually had the guts to lecture me against swinging for quite a few minutes. Then of course there's the possibility of STD's

Also, if the spouse knows of the relationship and is ok with it...is it cheating?
Dei37 and I don't believe that it is cheating as long as your partner is aware and approving of you having sex with anyone else. Cheating, in our mind, is something that is disrespectful, and hidden from your partner. Most swingers will not have a 3some or singly meet a person who is in an active relationship with someone else if their partner is not approving. We have met single men who want to have a 3some or meet with me alone but unless hubby and I speak to their partner and are told directly that it is ok to meet the man and play then we will adamantly refuse.

rlynnm · 12-19-2005, 11:24 AM

This whole thread opens my eyes and very many many ways. I'm still trying to digest it all.......Throw out your prior assumptions otu the door right?

abaya · 12-19-2005, 12:59 PM

Sultana, great thread. It has been so informative to hear people's responses. I especially liked the anonymous male's response; I have always thought about these situations in terms of "fairness," but I guess that is not what it really comes down to. "It is about being receptive to your partner's feelings and needs," the man said. I guess it is about what you can handle.

My only question is, particularly to Raeanna... about your brother's relationship. You said he has thought about swinging, but that you feel their relationship is not strong enough to handle it. I wonder, for swingers, do you see yourselves as having a kind of super-relationship (in terms of degree) while others have weaker relationships; or is it more a matter of a different *kind* of relationship than what others have?

I guess I dislike the idea of some relationships being stronger than others, when really isn't it more about preferences and what individuals can/can't handle? To me that is not an issue of strength.. but I can't think of the right word. Openness? Curiousity?

raeanna74 · 12-19-2005, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abaya

My only question is, particularly to Raeanna... about your brother's relationship. You said he has thought about swinging, but that you feel their relationship is not strong enough to handle it. I wonder, for swingers, do you see yourselves as having a kind of super-relationship (in terms of degree) while others have weaker relationships; or is it more a matter of a different *kind* of relationship than what others have?

With regards to my brother's marriage - His marriage almost didn't exist this summer. I've made entries in my journal with regards to their relationship. It is not a healthy one even judging by how average relationships go. Theirs is a violent, constantly arguing, stalking, possessive type. Plus the discussion about swinging occurred within the first 6 mo of their marriage.

Most swingers that I know have a couple things that they have worked out in their marriage before they swing. Most swingers that a person will find are in their mid-thirties at the youngest and many are in their 40's. They have open communication, learned to respect each other, and have somewhat healthy self images.

I know of one swinger couple where the woman was very self concious about her breasts which were a size A. She was afraid to even show her breasts in a lot of circumstances and it caused a lot of trouble in their relationship. As far as I am aware they are not currently swinging. I know of one more couple who had very poor communication - the man would make arrangements to meet other couples without running them by his spouse first. He also did not show her much respect in taking her concerns into consideration. They are divorced.

The difference in the kind of relationship needed for swinging is one that is handled in a mature way. Not a super relationship per se but one that both participants are committed to one another and respect each other.

Many times I've heard of a guy who wants to swing and pushed the girl until she feels guilty about saying no. In that kind of situation he is not showing respect for her feelings and she is either not voicing them or he is not listening.

abaya · 12-19-2005, 03:34 PM

Okay, I see what you mean about your brother. I apologize for not checking your journal first, but I am a delinquent journal reader at times.

Now, as for this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by raeanna74

It is not a healthy one even judging by how average relationships go. -snip- The difference in the kind of relationship needed for swinging is one that is handled in a mature way. Not a super relationship per se but one that both participants are committed to one another and respect each other.

I see how unhealthy your brother's relationship is, that it is "below-average." I wonder, though, can an "average" relationship sustain swinging?... that is, if everyone *wanted* to try swinging, could most people (the bell-curve) handle it? Or is it really a matter of taste and what people want to try?

I guess it all depends on whether or not "average" means people are mature, communicating, committed, and respectful... gee, that sounds more like above-average!

maleficent · 12-19-2005, 06:06 PM

An gentleman caller offers this post:

Quote:

How did you first get into it?

I can't really recall the exact details. We had seen a well done porno involving swingers and it was a sort of 'that would be fun' moment between us. We started to investigate on the internet and went from there.

Quote:

How did the SO respond initially?

Unsure but intrigued, which is what I knew she would be. I know her better than she knows herself sometimes.

Quote:

How long have you been doing it?

Off and on for almost 5 years.

Quote:

Any problems or pitfalls?

I'm sure you are talking about relationship problems and no problems there. The only problems are finding couples you are attracted to and interested in. It’s a lot like dating only instead of 2 people having to like each other, its four, which is a lot harder to work out.

Quote:

What are the benefits?

This is the part thats hard to describe. We had a great relationship prior to swinging, 100% solid, no short comings, no cheating, nothing of the sort. It took our relationship to a whole new level for a couple of reasons. First you must have good communication, and due to the subject matter involved you really have to have almost perfect communication for it to work out without problems.

Secondly it took our relationship to a whole new level. I honestly pity most married people as it seems they can't have as perfect a marriage as we have now. Imagine where you have almost no jealousy and no worries about cheating? I hear and see so many couples who are having problems and ignoring them and I know those problems will never be ours. Again its not so much the swinging that does this but the level of communication and trust it brings.

Quote:

What kind of ground rules do you have?

No real rules, but we always get veto power. If one of us isn't comfortable we don't do it, no matter what.

Quote:

How do you deal with the possibility of STDs?

We are very selective in who we play with, what kind of people they are, and what kind of people they hang out with. Many swingers are less selective but thats not our style. This of course does not eliminate the possibility of an STD and it is worry some to some extent. Condoms are used but they won’t stop HPV and the like. It’s a risk and I think a minor one in our case but still a risk.

Quote:

And any other pertinent info.

Yes, take your TIME. Be sure you want to do it, and be sure your relationship is at 100% strength. It can make a strong relationship incredible but will destroy a struggling one, utterly.

Also once you decide to do it, again TAKE YOUR TIME. Most newbies make the mistake of jumping into situations they are not comfortable with out of a desperate desire to try it. We took a full year to find our first really compatible couple and 5 year later they are still great friends of ours. On the other hand a lot of swingers are not looking for friendship, just sex, so decide what you want but never do something you feel uncomfortable with or take one for the team (your husband likes her and you don’t like him).

While we have met swingers from age 21 on, most tend to be older. I think a lot of people take longer to get ‘comfortable’ enough with the idea.

On last note, an odd problem with swinging is that it makes your ‘vanilla’ friends seem down right boring. What was once a great party will seem like a yawn fest. Most swinger parties we have gone to we have not played at (playing is a swinger ‘term’ for having sex with another couple) but the atmosphere is much more relaxed and fun, quite hard to describe the difference.

Shadefire · 12-20-2005, 05:42 AM

Anxst, Sorceress and I are a trio. This is how it started.
Sorceress and I had been best friends for years before we met Anxst. When we met him it was just Anxst and Sorceress in the relationship. I was their roommate and best friend. After about 7 months of living together we started a D&D game where my and Sorceress's characters both had the hots for Anxst's character. The three character's ended up getting married in game. This got us to thinking about the three of us. I think it took about 2 or three weeks of serious discussion before we all got into bed together. This was about 5 years ago now and we are still together. It is not always easy, and there has been some jealousy involved. However, if someone is feeling something they bring it up and we talk about it until whatever it is that is bothering the person is resolved. We are all very happy.

Only recently has the subject of swinging come up. Some of our friends swing, so we decided to talk about it. The basic concenses is that if one of us wants to sleep with someone we talk about who that person is and if we all like them. If we know them well enough and we all like them, then we take it from there.

Like everyone else here said, its all about communication, respect, and trust.

I hope this helps.

Sultana · 12-21-2005, 09:55 AM

Thanks everyone, for your thoughtful responses (though I'm not "ending" this thread, just giving a shout out)! It's extremely interesting to be given a view into choices folks make, and I appreciate the time and openess you all have offered.

Thank you for sharing.

Beccarain · 12-27-2005, 02:41 PM

Wow, lots of great input already! Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents, some of which echos what others have said :-)

How did you first get into it?

I had been bi-curious for many years. Whenever I watched pornos, alone or with my partner, it was always the girl-on-girl scenes that did it for me; the guy-on-girl stuff rarely turned me on. T and I talked about it; I wanted to experience sex with a girl and he really wanted to watch. So this summer, we decided to go find me a girlfriend. Turns out single ladies are harder to find than couples, though.

How did the SO respond initially?

He was very much for it; he knew this is something I wanted to experience for a long time, and our relationship is plenty strong enough so that neither of us feels threatened.

How long have you been doing it?

Nearly six months.

What are the benefits?

It's a real turn-on for him to see me with my girlfriend; and it's a real turn-on for me to see him with my girlfriend. She and I will sometimes just make out, other times we go down on each other, use a strap on, etc.

An unexpected benefit? Our sex life as a couple is even better now!

What kind of ground rules do you have?

T and I are in this lifestyle as a couple; we agree on everything beforehand (our groundrules have evolved over the past few months)
No intercourse (except with strap on with girlfriend)
When one is ready to go, play stops

How do you deal with the possibility of STDs?

Discussion and Communication!

There are different levels of swinging. Some couples engage in full intercourse with other couples (this was my first impression of what "swinging" means). I know one couple that engages in sex with other couples on a regular basis (like two or three different couples in a night). Although they swap partners, no intercourse occurs known as "soft swap." There are other levels, too.

On a more personal note . . .
My husband and I are in an exclusive relationship with a couple, M and J, we met during our second visit to a local swingers club. M and J had been looking for an exclusive friendship for six years but the couples they met wanted to move much too fast for their comfort. M and I were very attracted to each other from the moment we saw each other, and being brand new to this, I liked their idea of going slow; we invested time getting to know each other before getting really involved sexually. We still go to the club together every 2-3 weeks, and we'll dance with other women sometimes (the guys, T and J, don't dance), but when it's play time, we four stick together (so to speak). We may be open to inviting others to join us, but we would want to spend time getting to know them first. Over the past few months, M and I have become very close friends -- the very hot sex is actually secondary to the friendship (but it sure is lots o' fun!)

I think the most important advice I could give anyone considering the swinging lifestyle is to be clear on what you want and remember that communication between you and your partner is of the utmost importance.

Supple Cow · 01-23-2006, 02:17 PM

I've been thinking about this for a while now, and in the last year I've made some efforts to create non-traditional sexual situations for myself with varied success. As I read through this thread, it occurred to me that I might want to try a more guided, structured approach so I just signed up with a local club as a single (though I may continue with the lifestyle as part of a couple after I talk to my main partner and gauge his interest). At first, I was a little surprised to find that membership is pretty much exclusively for single women and couples - no single men. There was only one club in the city that recently started letting single men, and only one night a week. That aspect - I chose one of the other clubs - made it feel a lot safer for me when I decided to sign up. I wonder... is it like that most places?

Anyway, I'm not sure yet how soon I'll be going to my first event, but I'll be happy to share my thoughts as I move forward.

Sultana · 01-23-2006, 02:32 PM

Wow, that's very interesting Supple Cow, I'll look for your write-ups with interest.

Thanks for sharing!

raeanna74 · 01-23-2006, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supple Cow

snip...At first, I was a little surprised to find that membership is pretty much exclusively for single women and couples - no single men. There was only one club in the city that recently started letting single men, and only one night a week. That aspect - I chose one of the other clubs - made it feel a lot safer for me when I decided to sign up. I wonder... is it like that most places?...snip

Yup this is frequently how it is. I've been to clubs that allow single men and often the ratio of male to female ends up being 3 to 1 or greater. In that kind of atmosphere the men (often the single men) seem to have the idea that the woman are there just to have sex with as many men as they can. Some can get pushy or even cut in almost on another guy. This is the rarity of course but it happens more frequently with clubs that allow single guys or at least don't restrict the number of single guys at each party.

No matter what you should make sure you go to a club where the number one rule is "No means no." Most are this way but some can be more lax than others.

Good luck. I hope you'll enjoy this sexual adventure. I sure did/do.

Supple Cow · 01-23-2006, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raeanna74

Yup this is frequently how it is. I've been to clubs that allow single men and often the ratio of male to female ends up being 3 to 1 or greater. In that kind of atmosphere the men (often the single men) seem to have the idea that the woman are there just to have sex with as many men as they can. Some can get pushy or even cut in almost on another guy. This is the rarity of course but it happens more frequently with clubs that allow single guys or at least don't restrict the number of single guys at each party.

Makes sense. That's pretty much what I feared when I first thought of this (well besides the obvious, much more horrible things that could happen).

Quote:

Originally Posted by raeanna74

No matter what you should make sure you go to a club where the number one rule is "No means no." Most are this way but some can be more lax than others.

Thanks for the warning! I didn't know that it wasn't strictly enforced at all of these clubs. It kind of seemed like a given to me. I checked the websites of all the clubs I considered again, and it looks like I made as safe a choice as I could make - "NO MEANS NO" is all over the top of the rules and FAQ page in red. At least I know it's a priority for the people in charge.

It's looking like I'm going to start off with a smallish gathering early next month. I'm a little too busy to hit one of the bigger parties before then and the people who responded to my email wrote that a smaller party was the recommended way to begin. Any advice about what to expect from the experienced ladies around here would be much appreciated.

Mherlee · 02-02-2006, 10:33 PM

My husband and I aren't "swingers" in the go to the clubs sense so I'm not sure if I qualify in this discussion. We did decide almost a year and a half ago to give a more open relationship a try. There were specific friends we were interested in having sex with so we had to figure out how that would affect our friendships as well as our marriage.
First thing my husband had to realize (serial monogamist that he had always been...sex=love HA!) was that it was not literally tit for tat. If he said he wasn't comfortable it didn't mean I was going to pull my ok. He didn't think he had much interest or that he could seperate the sex and love thing so we talked it through for months before going further. We have both had some feelings of being left behind at times but realized it wasn't so and dealt with it. Luckily we are one of those couples that talk about everything and have now had outside interests for over a year. We talked about hitting a swingers club at some point but this is more comfortable for our lives with small children and busy schedules.

Communication and absolute honesty is the key. Everything else is just perception.

CaliLivChick · 05-12-2006, 02:17 PM

My bf and I went to a sex club in SF when we were still living around there (Power Exchange) with a woman I knew from school and her bf. We had a good time (not with the other couple, just by ourselves), and being out in the open like that was fun. We've been looking for another woman to have fun with for awhile, and have had casual conversations at to what we would and would not want to happen. Unfortunately, I don't think that Orlando is quite as open as San Francisco when it comes to sex and playing around, and we haven't been able to find anyone around here. I would love it if we could get out and find someone. Any ideas as to where we may find someone that open minded?

savvypup · 05-12-2006, 05:26 PM

Awesome thread Sultana!! I've always been curious about this, but I don't know if I could ever go through with it if put in that situation. Interesting comments though!

12-17-2005, 07:28 AM	#1 (permalink)
Sultana Falling Angel Location: L.A. L.A. land	The Swing Set OK, I'm hoping the Swinging ladies (and men, viewpoints posted via a mod) of TFP can tell me about it. This is the first place I've met folks who swing who I've gotten to know well enough to ask, so I want to take advantage of the opportunity. How did you first get into it? How did the SO respond initially? How long have you been doing it? Any problems or pitfalls? What are the benefits? What kind of ground rules do you have? How do you deal with the possibility of STDs? And any other pertinent info. Just curious about alternative lifestyles, heh. Thanks in advance. __________________ "Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come." - Matt Groening My goal? To fulfill my potential.

12-18-2005, 08:31 PM	#2 (permalink)
fyrehair Upright Location: Western NY	Hello and welcome to the wonderful world of swinging! I've been a swinger for a little over a year now. My bf & I are one of the host couples for our local swing club. (We greet people, answer questions, try to make people feel comfortable, etc.) I first got into it with my bf at a friend's wedding, of all places! Actually, it was after the reception, and it was us, another couple and the newlyweds left. We all were getting very friendly and things progressed naturally. That was about 4 yrs ago. My bf was the one that brought up the subject of swinging. A friend of ours had friends that were opening a club in our city and she invited us to go, meet the owners, and help out. That first dance was almost a disaster for me! My bf was having a great time. I, on the other hand, was trailing him like a lost puppy. I almost cried near the end of the night. The idea of the whole thing seemed to overwhelming. I think I was just very nervous. My bf & I haven't had too many problems, just because we communicate well and stick to our ground rules. Our rules are: 1. We play together. If one person doesn't want to play, then the other doesn't get to. And we don't go to separate rooms. 2. We communicate. If one doesn't like something, or just isn't comfortable, we say something. Don't bottle it up. We like to get to know who we would like to play with. That's one way we deal with STD's. Also, always use condoms. Don't let anyone talk you out of them. We have met some really great people and had some great parties. I can't imagine not being a part of this lifestyle. If you decide to become a swinger, check out a swinger club near you or a swinger website. That's a great way to see what the lifestyle can hold for you. Good luck, have fun and just be honest with yourself and those around you. __________________ I do not envy you the headache that you will have in the morning. Until then, sleep well and dream of large women.

12-18-2005, 08:32 PM	#3 (permalink)
shesus Fancy Location: Chicago	I am also interested in how people handle the swinging situation in their relationship. I am assuming that trust, commitment, and communication are very important. I also think that both people have to be willing and curious in the beginning. I don't think that you can take a person who never thought about being a swinger and make them one. Of course that is my theory. I know that personally, at this point in time, I couldn't imagine another woman with jj. However, I could see myself with another woman and we have discussed this and are considering what the implications may be. I guess to piggyback on Sultana's questions what are upsides and downsides of swinging or having open relationships? Also, if the spouse knows of the relationship and is ok with it...is it cheating? __________________ Whatever did happen to your soul? I heard you sold it Choose Heaven for the weather and Hell for the company

12-19-2005, 10:04 AM	#6 (permalink)
raeanna74 I'm not a blonde! I'm knot! I'm knot! I'm knot! Location: Upper Michigan	How did you first get into it? Dei37 (hubby) and I got into swinging about a year after he had a serious head injury. We had multiple reasons for getting into but one of them was a direct result of his injury. He nearly died so for him he was living on borrowed time and wanted to make the most of THIS life while he could. For me I was just glad to till have him and wanted to make him happy and enjoy everything we could together. I think it was mostly an attitude of having already lived our married life together and this was something extra and we wanted to enjoy it to it's fullest. How did the SO respond initially? Dei37 was the one that brought up the subject first. I was adamantly against it. We had both been raised in extremely strict religious housholds and I felt that the subject was taboo. After catching him looking at porn and not feeling strongly about that (I had sneaked it myself in earlier years) we began to discuss sexual subjects more. Even with that openness it too me almost a year of discussion and learning what I could about the lifestyle before I was comfortable enough to try it. When we finally tried it we met another local couple with the expectation that we would only discuss things, get to know them and then if I (since I was the most afraid of the 4 of us) was ok with it we could go farther and kiss or actually play. When we met we did talk a lot. They answered a lot of my questions and we DID end up playing. Hubby and I BOTH loved it and from then on we've enjoyed it with only one big bump in the road. How long have you been doing it? For nearly 4 years. I think it will be 4 years this spring. If I remember right it was sometime around my Birthday that we tried it the first time. Any problems or pitfalls? Swinging will not fix a bad relationship. There are always exceptions to this rule but for the most part it is a consistant rule. Never expect it to fix the relationship. Respect is VERY important. If you cannot respect your partners feelings of discomfort about any particular situation then you are headed for big trouble. Communication is crucial. If you cannot TALK about your feelings about different situations then your partner cannot ease any anxieties that you have. Also you need to be sure of your love for each other or there is bound to be some jealousy. No means No. If you go to any parties and even when meeting another couple you must respect this rule. Most clubs have this as one of the most important rules. If you cannot respect your partner or others and listen when they say no about anything you are doing then you will not succeed in the lifestyle. What are the benefits? I have become more comfortable in my skin, being naked. I have learned that there are a LOT more body types out there than we ever really see and Mine is not really ugly but rather unique. Hubby and I have learned sexual tricks and fun things that we can do at home in bed. Things we would not have really learned in the Kama Sutra. Some things you just have to try to know how they'll work. Hubby and I have learned to trust each other more. We have learned to communicate more. Men don't enjoy TALKING about their feelings as much as women do in general. BUT when communicating their feelings means they get to have more sex or sex with more women they (or at least hubby and a few other swinger women have told me their hubby's are the same) tend to be more vocal about their feelings. BIG plus in our relationship. Variety is the spice of life. We had already tried a LOT of things sexually but being able to swing with other people keeps our sex with each other more interesting. It's not the same Sex every time we have it. It makes, keeping sex fun, a much easier thing to do. What kind of ground rules do you have? No sex with anyone without prior approval from our partner. No sex with anyone who is hiding it with their SO. If one of us needs to stop and go home - We STOP and go home. We haven't really had this problem arise but if you don't have it then someone can end up feeling uncomfortable, disrespected, or downright unloved. Some couples have the rules...1. Sex ONLY in the same room -partly this is because some couples swap partners for the voyouristic aspect of watching their partner. 2. No kissing - Some couples feel like they should save some part of the sexual experience for their SO only. This is a common rule. Not a rule we go by personally. How do you deal with the possibility of STDs? You cannot completely get away from this possibility. BUT we personally get tested for the range of diseases every 6 mo or so. We have been pretty lucky. If we ever got anything we would stop swinging until we'd finished treatment or permanently depending on what we'd caught. The prevelance of HIV in Wisconsin in general let alone in the swinger population in Wisconsin is fairly low. I don't know the exact numbers but I found the general infected population number for Wisconsin on the CDC's website recently. As for other diseases - Herpes is the only other STD that is incurable. Some couples use condoms on a regular basis and this is how we started out. Both of us are allergic to Latex and the other types are quite expensive. We also don't enjoy the hassle of it. We know a number of couples who willingly share their medical status with us. We also know one swinger couple that got a minor STD and contacted us ASAP to inform us. They are clear of it now but do not swing anymore. This is something you will have to decide on your own. IF I were planning to have anymore children I would be more concerned. If I were trying to get pregnant or already pregnant I would not swing because many STD's can cause problems or even be fatal to infants at birth, even when birthed by C-section. *Some people require condoms some do not. Because of our sensitivity to Latex we make sure we have with us some poly type any time that we meet people. What are upsides and downsides of swinging or having open relationships? It is a large part of my life that I cannot share with my family. My parents are extemely religious and my mother would be nearly vicious if she knew what we were doing. My brother is aware of what we do and completely ok with it but he has considered the possibility with his wife. Their relationship is not what is should be and probably never will be strong enough to handle a swinging relationship. If you do not have an open minded Dr, which we do now, you could end up with the type of situation I had when I had a Dr who strongly disapproved of swinging. She actually had the guts to lecture me against swinging for quite a few minutes. Then of course there's the possibility of STD's Also, if the spouse knows of the relationship and is ok with it...is it cheating? Dei37 and I don't believe that it is cheating as long as your partner is aware and approving of you having sex with anyone else. Cheating, in our mind, is something that is disrespectful, and hidden from your partner. Most swingers will not have a 3some or singly meet a person who is in an active relationship with someone else if their partner is not approving. We have met single men who want to have a 3some or meet with me alone but unless hubby and I speak to their partner and are told directly that it is ok to meet the man and play then we will adamantly refuse. __________________ "Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

12-19-2005, 11:24 AM	#7 (permalink)
rlynnm Psycho Location: so cal	This whole thread opens my eyes and very many many ways. I'm still trying to digest it all.......Throw out your prior assumptions otu the door right? __________________ The hardest thing is to be honest with yourself, especially if that means completely redefining the world you've come to know. Don't look too hard, I'm right in front of you.

12-18-2005, 09:24 PM	#4 (permalink)
cellophanedeity Heliotrope Location: A warm room	My love and I aren't quite swingers, but we are open to trying things. So far we've had two people join us (on two different occasions) and no actual penetration happened. It was more along the lines of naked making out and playing and all of that. Well, I guess I must have been in grade eleven when we first tried playing with another person. We first got into it because I just wanted to try being with a woman, and both Simon and I have always liked the idea of group sex. I've always been flirty with my other female friends, and it just happened that one of those flirtations led to more. Neither of us really quite enjoyed the experience, but it was because of the partner more than the idea. The second time was kind of strange. I went to school with Simon once, and at the end of the day one of his friends just told us that she wanted us. So we set up a time and place and got together. We could tell that she was uncomfortable, and things just weren't going well so not much happened beyond making out. The second time we got together, it was similar except more nakedness. The third time, we came to the realization that she's not queer at all and just wants my boyfriend. Yet again, Simon and I didn't really enjoy the experience, but because of the partner not the idea. As we didn't ever get very far, we didn't really worry too much about STDs. I mean, I asked the first girl about herpes and if she had been tested recently and all of that, and she promised she was clean (we were friends, I trusted her) just in case. Hopefully in the near future, a very close friend of ours may be joining us. We've put a lot more thought into this, and both Simon and I are close with the guy. The only real ground rules are that condoms must be used if any sort of penetration is going to occur, and that if at any point in time no matter what has been said or done, if someone feels even slightly uncomfortable we either return to a good comfort level, or we stop entirely. Simon and I have a level of communication that would make any therapist proud. We know what the other is and is not comfortable with, and we completely understand eachother non-verbally. I guess another good bit about it is that I really want him to make himself as happy as possible. If he finds someone he thinks he'd be happier with, then I don't want to hold him back. That, and I know he loves me more than any other woman. laughs so I guess that basically answers the question.

12-19-2005, 12:59 PM	#8 (permalink)
abaya Location: Iceland	Sultana, great thread. It has been so informative to hear people's responses. I especially liked the anonymous male's response; I have always thought about these situations in terms of "fairness," but I guess that is not what it really comes down to. "It is about being receptive to your partner's feelings and needs," the man said. I guess it is about what you can handle. My only question is, particularly to Raeanna... about your brother's relationship. You said he has thought about swinging, but that you feel their relationship is not strong enough to handle it. I wonder, for swingers, do you see yourselves as having a kind of super-relationship (in terms of degree) while others have weaker relationships; or is it more a matter of a different kind of relationship than what others have? I guess I dislike the idea of some relationships being stronger than others, when really isn't it more about preferences and what individuals can/can't handle? To me that is not an issue of strength.. but I can't think of the right word. Openness? Curiousity? __________________ And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran

12-20-2005, 05:42 AM	#12 (permalink)
Shadefire Upright Location: Madison, WI	Anxst, Sorceress and I are a trio. This is how it started. Sorceress and I had been best friends for years before we met Anxst. When we met him it was just Anxst and Sorceress in the relationship. I was their roommate and best friend. After about 7 months of living together we started a D&D game where my and Sorceress's characters both had the hots for Anxst's character. The three character's ended up getting married in game. This got us to thinking about the three of us. I think it took about 2 or three weeks of serious discussion before we all got into bed together. This was about 5 years ago now and we are still together. It is not always easy, and there has been some jealousy involved. However, if someone is feeling something they bring it up and we talk about it until whatever it is that is bothering the person is resolved. We are all very happy. Only recently has the subject of swinging come up. Some of our friends swing, so we decided to talk about it. The basic concenses is that if one of us wants to sleep with someone we talk about who that person is and if we all like them. If we know them well enough and we all like them, then we take it from there. Like everyone else here said, its all about communication, respect, and trust. I hope this helps. __________________ I was covered in blood, but it wasn't mine, so it was okay. - Anita Blake

12-21-2005, 09:55 AM	#13 (permalink)
Sultana Falling Angel Location: L.A. L.A. land	Thanks everyone, for your thoughtful responses (though I'm not "ending" this thread, just giving a shout out)! It's extremely interesting to be given a view into choices folks make, and I appreciate the time and openess you all have offered. Thank you for sharing. __________________ "Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come." - Matt Groening My goal? To fulfill my potential.

12-27-2005, 02:41 PM	#14 (permalink)
Beccarain Upright Location: Right here, right now	Wow, lots of great input already! Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents, some of which echos what others have said :-) How did you first get into it? I had been bi-curious for many years. Whenever I watched pornos, alone or with my partner, it was always the girl-on-girl scenes that did it for me; the guy-on-girl stuff rarely turned me on. T and I talked about it; I wanted to experience sex with a girl and he really wanted to watch. So this summer, we decided to go find me a girlfriend. Turns out single ladies are harder to find than couples, though. How did the SO respond initially? He was very much for it; he knew this is something I wanted to experience for a long time, and our relationship is plenty strong enough so that neither of us feels threatened. How long have you been doing it? Nearly six months. What are the benefits? It's a real turn-on for him to see me with my girlfriend; and it's a real turn-on for me to see him with my girlfriend. She and I will sometimes just make out, other times we go down on each other, use a strap on, etc. An unexpected benefit? Our sex life as a couple is even better now! What kind of ground rules do you have? T and I are in this lifestyle as a couple; we agree on everything beforehand (our groundrules have evolved over the past few months) No intercourse (except with strap on with girlfriend) When one is ready to go, play stops How do you deal with the possibility of STDs? Discussion and Communication! There are different levels of swinging. Some couples engage in full intercourse with other couples (this was my first impression of what "swinging" means). I know one couple that engages in sex with other couples on a regular basis (like two or three different couples in a night). Although they swap partners, no intercourse occurs known as "soft swap." There are other levels, too. On a more personal note . . . My husband and I are in an exclusive relationship with a couple, M and J, we met during our second visit to a local swingers club. M and J had been looking for an exclusive friendship for six years but the couples they met wanted to move much too fast for their comfort. M and I were very attracted to each other from the moment we saw each other, and being brand new to this, I liked their idea of going slow; we invested time getting to know each other before getting really involved sexually. We still go to the club together every 2-3 weeks, and we'll dance with other women sometimes (the guys, T and J, don't dance), but when it's play time, we four stick together (so to speak). We may be open to inviting others to join us, but we would want to spend time getting to know them first. Over the past few months, M and I have become very close friends -- the very hot sex is actually secondary to the friendship (but it sure is lots o' fun!) I think the most important advice I could give anyone considering the swinging lifestyle is to be clear on what you want and remember that communication between you and your partner is of the utmost importance.

01-23-2006, 02:17 PM	#15 (permalink)
Supple Cow Americow, the Beautiful Location: Washington, D.C.	I've been thinking about this for a while now, and in the last year I've made some efforts to create non-traditional sexual situations for myself with varied success. As I read through this thread, it occurred to me that I might want to try a more guided, structured approach so I just signed up with a local club as a single (though I may continue with the lifestyle as part of a couple after I talk to my main partner and gauge his interest). At first, I was a little surprised to find that membership is pretty much exclusively for single women and couples - no single men. There was only one club in the city that recently started letting single men, and only one night a week. That aspect - I chose one of the other clubs - made it feel a lot safer for me when I decided to sign up. I wonder... is it like that most places? Anyway, I'm not sure yet how soon I'll be going to my first event, but I'll be happy to share my thoughts as I move forward. __________________ "I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. Twenty-six times I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed." (Michael Jordan)

01-23-2006, 02:32 PM	#16 (permalink)
Sultana Falling Angel Location: L.A. L.A. land	Wow, that's very interesting Supple Cow, I'll look for your write-ups with interest. Thanks for sharing! __________________ "Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come." - Matt Groening My goal? To fulfill my potential.

02-02-2006, 10:33 PM	#19 (permalink)
Mherlee Upright Location: Anaheim, CA	My husband and I aren't "swingers" in the go to the clubs sense so I'm not sure if I qualify in this discussion. We did decide almost a year and a half ago to give a more open relationship a try. There were specific friends we were interested in having sex with so we had to figure out how that would affect our friendships as well as our marriage. First thing my husband had to realize (serial monogamist that he had always been...sex=love HA!) was that it was not literally tit for tat. If he said he wasn't comfortable it didn't mean I was going to pull my ok. He didn't think he had much interest or that he could seperate the sex and love thing so we talked it through for months before going further. We have both had some feelings of being left behind at times but realized it wasn't so and dealt with it. Luckily we are one of those couples that talk about everything and have now had outside interests for over a year. We talked about hitting a swingers club at some point but this is more comfortable for our lives with small children and busy schedules. Communication and absolute honesty is the key. Everything else is just perception. __________________ You've heard about fury and a woman scorned, well that is nothing compared to the fury of a woman who has been cheated out of tricks and treats. -Linus It's the Great Pumpkin Charlie Brown Stupid is forever. You can't FIX stupid. -Ron White

05-12-2006, 02:17 PM	#20 (permalink)
CaliLivChick In Transition Location: Sanford, FL (between Daytona and Orlando)	My bf and I went to a sex club in SF when we were still living around there (Power Exchange) with a woman I knew from school and her bf. We had a good time (not with the other couple, just by ourselves), and being out in the open like that was fun. We've been looking for another woman to have fun with for awhile, and have had casual conversations at to what we would and would not want to happen. Unfortunately, I don't think that Orlando is quite as open as San Francisco when it comes to sex and playing around, and we haven't been able to find anyone around here. I would love it if we could get out and find someone. Any ideas as to where we may find someone that open minded? __________________ Don't trust anything that can bleed for a week and not die. Oh wait, that's me... nevermind... you can trust me.

05-12-2006, 05:26 PM	#21 (permalink)
savvypup Crazy Location: Want to run away? Follow the light	Awesome thread Sultana!! I've always been curious about this, but I don't know if I could ever go through with it if put in that situation. Interesting comments though! __________________ ciao bella!