raeanna74

For you women with SO, do you get the feeling that you are doing everything, sometimes? Sometimes you get to do all the housework, plus helping with the wage earning. Personally I don't mind doing all the housework myself so long as hubby's doing all the wage earning. At least both of us are working. Lately it's felt like I'm doing all the housework, trying to help with wage earning, PLUS tending to his wants and needs. I'm feeling burned out and unattended to. I've said things. Until yesterday when I ended up somewhat bitchy and whiny I don't think he listened - or heard me. Is this the average? Why do we have to ASK for stuff and they don't? I just had to vent and I'm hoping for some commiseration at least.

I think I'm going on strike.

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"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

lurkette

I think a lot of women end up feeling that way. I know I used to. There were things that were just "my" domain - like laundry, cleaning, shopping, remembering both families' birthdays and taking care of presents, etc. When ratbastid saw how unfair he was being he changed his behavior but it took years of arguments before he admitted how sneaky he was about avoiding work, and before I lessened up on what I expected. It became such an issue that, for me, it was no longer about the actual tasks that needed doing but about his love for me, so even though it wasn't really a big deal that he'd do the dishes but then not wipe up the counter, I'd turn it into a huge fight. Now I just remind him to wipe the dang counter when he's done. Anyhow, going on strike is probably a good idea, but this is also something that needs to be communicated about becuase it's such a big part of your life. One of you needs to change your behavior or your expectations if it's not going to be an annoyance forever.

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"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France

abaya

Heh, well they ask for sex, don't they? Yeah, this is an age-old question. Why do most women prefer to live in neat and tidy places, while most men are content to live in a trash heap? (Again, I'm not saying ALL are like this, but I've yet to know any man who give a damn.) I can't sort it out myself, and I sort out human behavior as a living (I'm an anthropologist).

Well, these things become a woman's (or man's)domain only when one lets that happen, I think. For me, I refuse to do more than half of the work, period. Ktspktsp is well aware of my stubborness on equality in the household (and I think he agrees with me on principle, but that doesn't always translate into reality), so we try to communicate about that. It's somewhat easy when we're not living together, but both of us are going to have to make serious adjustment when we live together again.

I think it's cool, lurkette, that ratbastid finally came around and 'fessed up about his sheer laziness. That takes some balls for a man (or woman) to do that, and then to work on changing it. As for lessening expectations, I'm curious about what you mean? You let the house be a little more messy, or you just started reminding him more often?

And how do you make your "reminders" not sound like nagging (to him)? I can't figure out what is a nice way of reminding someone to do a chore without putting them on the defensive...

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

ngdawg

While going to school, I made the announcement that from then on, don't depend on me to get things done. No more telling me you're wearing your last clean shirt or clean pair of underwear. If YOU know you're out, wash something. This applies to the kids as well.
When we first bought the house, we agreed I'd take care of the inside and he'd do the outside and for the most part, it still works. But I'm the first to admit, I'm the lazy one, so I slack off around the house a lot.
Seems women are depended on for all social duties, though and that's not likely to change for any of us.
A side note: 60% of the divorces in this country are initiated by women and to hear other married women talk, it's easy to see why.
I tried to explain the dynamics to the spouse thusly: men go out of the house in which they were raised, get jobs, get married. They are defined as sons or husbands. Women leave as daughters, then (mostly) become wives, mothers, all labels dependant on their relationship with someone else. At some point, we tire of it.

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Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

raeanna74

What I don't understand is that hubby does NOT like living in a trash heap. If I let things go around her he WILL complain. Not in a mean way but asking me to do this or that. Usually I'll respond with - how about YOU do it. He'll often promise to vacuum then but I can wait DAYS before that will get done. He does not enjoy the clutter or mess but he's not willing to take care of the problem himself. He has not done laundry since I broke my foot - and that was only washing, drying, and bringing up a basket of clean. He has not done dishes in YEARS. I have complained for years. Nothing seems to get through the thick skull. What baffles me is that my Dad did dishes on a regular basis as well as other chores. I'm not accustomed to dealing with a male who is completely unwilling to do ANY domestic duties at all.

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"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

ngdawg

Probably he was raised in a home where mom did it all. Mine was and it took years to get him to understand that I am NOT his mother and will not iron his tshirts, make foods that I'd never eat, etc. He never cleaned house, but he's real quick to tell me I don't do it correctly and hovers over the kids as they do chores.
Their definitions of what a wife and mother are made when they are boys and they take that with them as they marry and have kids-so called 'traditional' households are spoilers.
Until your definitions are clearly understood, the conflicts will continue.

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

Grasshopper Green

Raenna, you described me to a T. Hubby is in charge of the kitchen...me, everything else. And when I say kitchen, that's just dishes and garbage. Not the floor. I think I end up loading and unloading the dishwasher more than he does. I actually work more than he does, but he is in school (sometimes). He does the yardwork; however, we've only lived one place that required yardwork, so that's a copout too.

He's gotten better in the past little while, but it still wears on me because he will let the kitchen slip and slip until I can't take it anymore and do it myself (however, I refuse to do the pots and pans...and then tell him I can't cook because I have nothing to cook with, this usually manages to get his butt in gear.) My mother and sister are really pushing me to leave him, at least temporarily, because they know how much this stresses me out.

And don't assume we've never talked about this; this is probably our number one discussion. He's just all talk and no action.

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"They say that patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings; steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you king"

Formerly Medusa

Sage

Let me just throw out a scenario here. You're at work. You think you do a pretty good job around the place, yeah, the boss has come by a few times to tell you to fix some things, but not in a while, so you're feeling good about what you do. Then, all of a sudden, the boss comes by. He's really really steamed. He slams down a report on your desk and starts talking about how "You never do this right! I've told you a thousand times how to do this, and you still can't get it through your thick skull that you're doing it WRONG! I hate you! I hate the work you do! You're useless! And, uh, could you please go put some more toner in the copier?"

Sounds pretty wierd, right? If the boss hates you so much, why don't you get fired? And if you're doing something wrong, why doesn't he sit down and list his expectations and discuss your job more thoroughly with you?

When you go and talk to your husband (SO, boyfriend, etc), you've been stewing for DAYS- thinking over and over "Bastard husband doesn't wipe the counter. I've told him TEN THOUSAND TIMES to wipe the counter, he must hate me, he must not love me because he didn't do what I told him to" and then, when you finally say something about it, to him your upset attitude is totally out of the blue. He has NO CLUE why you're mad, and when it finally comes out, you're basically upset because he didn't wipe the counter. So he's sitting around going "Jesus.... she's THAT mad that I didn't wipe the counter? That's crazy!" and then goes back to watching football.

Being married (and no, I haven't been married fifty years but my parents have been married for thirty) is not a power struggle. You're not there to "get his butt in gear" any more than he's there to "get you turned into a sexpot." He was fine with his way of doing things before you got married, and unless you spell out REALLY CLEARLY guidelines to living together, he's going to assume his way of doing things is fine after you get married.

The normal response to this, though, is "But I've TOLD HIM AND TOLD HIM AND TOLD HIM." Yeah, you've TOLD him what to do. Not asked, not explained why you want it done that way, not had him talk about how he feels about the situation; just simply TOLD him what to do, the way his mother has told him what to do since he was two. So, you start acting like his mother, he's going to subconciously start treating you like his mother. Things get worse and worse and worse, resentment builds and builds, and one day you walk out, bags in hand, tears streaming down your face, and he's like "But honey, what did I do?"

Men aren't some "big dumb animal" that you have to beat into submission. No matter how much it seems like that, your man is a living, breathing human being who has feelings and wants and desires. It's just that your desires to keep the cave clean are different than his desires to go out and kill food all day long.

So, communication is the key. If you feel like your blood boils and steam comes out your ears whenever you so much as think about him not wiping the kitchen counter, you're not ready to communicate. Get thee to a counselor, someone who can listen to you vent, who can offer advice, and who can calm you down. When you feel like you are ready to communicate with your husband (SO, boyfriend, etc), make a time to sit down, away from kids and TV and bills and whatever, and really communicate. Make sure neither of you is hungry, tired, etc. Really TALK about what's bothering you. If it was as simple an issue as wiping the counter, then why are there all these negative emotions attached to it? IT'S JUST A COUNTER. Talk about how you feel. Say WHY you would like the counter to be clean ("Honey, I don't feel comfortable living in a house where the counter isn't clean") and WHY you feel upset when he doesn't clean the counter ("Honey, when you don't help out around the house, it makes me feel like your mom and your maid, and that doesn't make me feel sexy or horny or beautiful or appreciated"). Also, realize that it will take some time for him to get used to the way you would like things to be done, and sometimes you have to comprimise on when things will get done. I know that when I say "Martel, will you please do so and so" I mean "in the next five minutes" and he thinks "In the next two hours." We used to fight about that a lot, until I realized that it wasn't that he wasn't going to do it, it was just that he wasn't doing things the same way I was.

Perhaps you will find that your whole marriage is better when you don't go around with a big ball of resentment towards your husband (boyfriend, SO, etc) all day long. That the grass is greener when you don't look at the kitchen counter and have a nauseous feeling in the pit of your stomach. That the sun shines brighter when you know that the floor will be vaccumed (eventually). And that your life is a hell of a lot happier when you're not going around being mad all the time.

Perservierence, communication, patience, counseling, love love love- that's what works in a marriage.


Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go put on my asbestos fire suit....

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shesus

Wow! I'm glad I'm not alone in my frustration. I don't do everything, but it feels like I do most thing. JJ will do the dishes, laundry, and most times change the bed sheets. I cook, clean, and pay the bills. It is a pretty good system and I never minded it until I started my Master's program. I became very resentful because he would be able to sit around and play video games or mess around on the computer. I never had a free moment. He said that he would clean the house over the summer break since I was finishing up my Master's degree. He's cleaned twice. I've learned to pick battles and house duties is one that I don't mess with. Of course, I am quite the martyr so I guess I bring it on myself.

I would tell you to discuss the situation, but you said you already have. But maybe you could assign chores and say that it will help you spend more time together because the chores will get done quicker. I'd assign him to the bathroom

__________________
Whatever did happen to your soul?
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Sultana

This is an issue I've been trying to deal with too...backing off on the nagging, without lowering my standards. Can it be done? Hell if I know.

Not too long ago whilst in the counseling session, I was complaining about a recent episode where hub picked up the drycleaning, but didn't bother to A) bring it in the house, and when I reminded him to do so, he B) didn't hang it up. Just left it on the bed. I was really annoyed, and told him that I expected him to do the whole damn job when he agreed to do something. He responded that we were supposed to be sharing household responsibilities, and so if he picks up the dry cleaning, I should be willing to hang it up. WTF?? (to his credit, he is now embarrassed by this).

BUT...after telling this story, the counselor told me that if I asked him to do something, and he agreed to, then I needed to stop putting expectations on how he was going to do it, and let him do it the way he was going to do it. To which I responded, "That's Bullshit." and proceeded to argue (civilly and respectfully, of course) against that.

I'd love to get your opinions on that...Am I out of line for having expectations? It's not like I hover nor critique, honestly! But if I ask him to take out the trash (and why do I have to *ask* him to??) should I just suck it up when the boxes that didn't fit in the trashcan aren't also taken out, or if there's no new liner? I know this sounds so petty, lol! but I understand Lurkette's point of view, it starts to say to you, "I don't want to do this menial job, you can do it" or, "I don't care enough about you to do this lowly task properly." Which is not what really being said (on a conscious level, anyways), but after years and years, the tolerances run thin....

I can't see myself just letting something go until he takes care of it, that'd send us to divorce court faster than anything, lol! I'm not compulsive, but I do this crazy idea that I shouldn't have to constantly ask for help, and that I shouldn't have to lower my standards (living with an overflowing trash can, every single dish/glass dirty, etc.).

__________________
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath.
At night, the ice weasels come." -

Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.

maleficent

Sage has some very wise words...

a very similar discussion has been had before, i' m just too lazy to search for it. Some of the men, who are veterens of marraige. had some good answers as to why they didnt always help.

1. They just don't see it or frankly don't care...
2. Nagging = the adults talking in charlie brown. Quickest way to get a man to not listen is to nag him or use the really lame - I've told you this a million times (are you his mother or a spouse)
3 Some of you sound like perfectionists... if the husband were to do something, what would you do if it were not done to your standards? Bitch about it and do it yourself anyhow... you've now just given the guy the reason why he didn't need to do it to begin with.

Is the world going to stop spinning on it's access if the counter doesn't get wiped down every day? Probably not.

If the husband does do a chore say thank you, and that's it, A little appreciation goes a long way.

Sounds like that's what you ladies want as well.

BUT... and a good friend of mine does this and I will smack her whenever she does... Don't play the martyr, which is what Raenna seems to be falling into.... She had to scrounge to get a 13 dollar hair cut, when DEI can buy pretty much whatever he wants... Give yourselves both an allowance and stick to it -- seperate from the household budget and you can do whatever you want to with that money. If you want something, get it...

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ngdawg

Personally, I don't care how a chore gets done as long as it gets done. The kids do it half-fast, when they do it. I don't nag the spouse at all-he's learned that if I even mention the carpet is looking a bit ragged, just grab the vac(he's better at that than I am anyway). Doing something over when it wasn't done to your 'standards' is, like Mal said, a sure-fire way to lessen cooperation in the future.
I tell my mother this all the time(she's a clean freak who always complains dad can't do it right): When I'm laid out and friends and family pay their respects, do I really want them to say nothing but 'she kept such a nice clean home...'?
By the way, I just got done cleaning the kitchen and bathroom-that should last about 3 days tops. Spouse is making porch steps.

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Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

*Nikki*

The main problem I have with this issue is that my husband will do certain things around the house but he does a shitty job. So then I just have to redo what he has done, so instead I just do it all myself. I got tired of him doing it half ass and it is so much easier to not complain or nag and just take it upon myself instead.

We have no problem with communtication, it is just really a matter of his way and my way of completing chores.

bad jane

while i agree that both people take some responsibility in this issue--sometimes, one person just won't listen.

this was one of many issues in my marriage. in the beginning, we both had jobs and shared household responsibilities. he quit working and we agreed he'd take on the house while i worked. after a while, he quit doing anything. i worked, i took care of the house and i took care of him. that gets real old real fast. granted, my situation was extreme--but he wasn't open to any type of communication. seeing me do it was fine, having it not done was fine. the man simply didn't care. for those like me, being married to such a person is impossible. he wanted a wife like his mother (sahm who took care of the house) but also wanted a "modern" wife who served as the primary wage-earner. and while i could do it all (and plenty of women do) at some point, you do get sick of it. marriage is a partnership and you need to be giving just as much as you are taking. if i had wanted to do it all myself, i would have had a child, not gotten married.

raeanna74

We had worked this out at one point where when we needed something we were able to go ahead and get it. Just lately we've been extra tight and so we've checked things with each other unless it was absolutely necessary like a gallon of milk. Then we start not being so tight. But the minute we start to have extra money - HE spends it. I shouldn't be such a pushover maybe. He pouts. I should remind him of my needs and wants. I hate doing that though because I feel selfish and mean. So I scrounge instead.

As for nagging. I ask if he would mind vacuuming. He'll say SURE. I'll tell him that I need the crumbs off the floor before the kids come the next day and I need the vacuuming done before my daughter goes to bed because I don't want the noise to wake her up. He'll say that he understands and will get it done before 9:00. Around 8:00 I'll remind him that it's getting late for vacuuming and that our daughter is getting ready for bed. By 8:30 it'll still be undone. I'll remind him again that she's going to bed. He'll say he'll do it before work the next morning. Fine. I'll wait till morning and remind him that it's getting close to time for leaving for work if he wants to vacuum he should get it done. He'll say "In a minute" then 10 minutes later he's gotta finish getting ready and leave. It never got done. This has happened MANY times. I even point the procrastination problem out to him without yelling or flipping out. He'll apologize but next time he has completely forgotten.

He doesn't forget the size of the engine in the car in the want ads. He can go weeks and still remember that. Why don't they remember this? Or am I naive enough to think that they don't remember when he purposely forgets??

I normally don't mind doing housework. I don't work outside the home and enjoy it most of the time. It's just lately the balance of responsibility has slowly shifted to my shoulders all except for his 8-5 job. Everything including personal care for ALL the members of my family has become something that everyone expects me to do. I need to shift that back.

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"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

maleficent

Why does that make you feel selfish and mean? If he's going to pout because you are doing something that he needs, and he has to put what he wants on hold for a little bit, well, let him pout. You had a battle of wills with your daughter over food and you won that... Find some of that stubbornness to get what you want actually change that want to need. You are important, you are more important that scrounging around to get what you want.

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Gilda

When it comes to household chores, I take care of the housework, cooking, cleaning and laundry, and she takes care of everything else, like paying bills, running the business, collecting rent, etc.

Yes, that means I do a good deal more work time-wise, but I have more time. I only need about 6 hours sleep each night to her 8, and she typically works a 50-60 hour work week, and her job is much harder than mine. Add in that the three of us are all very neat, and there's very little housework to be done, maybe two hours daily and five or six on Saturday, leaving plenty of relaxation time. If there were kids involved, obviously that would be much more.

As long as they do their part by doing half a dozen little things, like putting their own plates in the dishwasher or throwing dirty clothes in the right basket (one for whites, one for cold colors, one for warm colors, one for dry clean, lingerie in the appropriate wash bag), I'm happy to take care of everything else.

I'm sure it would be much more difficult if we had kids or if Grace or Sissy weren't also neatniks like me.

Gilda

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I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that.

~Steven Colbert

onodrim

Thankfully, secret and I don't/won't have this problem. It really comes down to communication, we agree to do everything in our relationship equally and as long as we both do our part it works out fine.
I've also found that in general, the guys I know are very clean and organized and do household chores. It's all the girls I've ever lived with that I have to constantly clean up after and take care of their messes, etc. So, I've found that while there may be guys out there who don't do there part around the house, there are just as many women, and it's a personality flaw rather than a gender issue.

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"The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides"
-Carl Sagan

maleficent

A gentleman caller wished to weigh in on this topic: he makes a very good point

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Sultana

I just don't know about this, and I'm not trying to be arguementative, I promise! lol. (I promise I'm actually a very nice lady, although I'm sure this particular thread has some pegging me as a bioch, heh.)

If I understand the gentleman, then I should instead do/say something like:
"Honey, could you please go to the drycleaners and pick up the drycleaning? And then could you bring it in from the car when you get home? And then could you hang up the drycleaning? In our closet? "

Because I can tell you that that would engender a teenage-like feeling of resentment as well from the hubby, if I deliniated every single step. And then yes, I would certainly feel like his mother as well (without the mad cooking skillz). But I am willing to re-evaluate whether I an justified in feeling resentful if I am not that specific, and those steps do not take place.

It seems kind of strange to imagine that I should have to spell out everything for him though...I guess it's those expectations again. If he uses the restroom, I expect him to flush (and he lives up to those expectations, heh). If he gets food out of the fridge, I expect him to put away the leftovers so they don't go bad, etc. etc.

So you're saying I should not have those expectations if I don't enumerate them...yes?

Also, to say I'm asking him for a favor implies that otherwise, it's *my* responsibility. But weren't we talking about shared responsibility here?

Unspecificishness--cute! I do understand the idea/concept, though.
AND...I do appreciate you taking the time to evaluate my situation and offer an opinion/solution. Thanks

__________________
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath.
At night, the ice weasels come." -

Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.

Sweetpea

This gentlemen made some good points.

The first six months of my marriage, i was doing Everything and i was in your same boat, i was resenting him for it. And when i would ask something of my husband domestic-wise he wouldn't do it the way i quite wanted...

one day he said "just tell me exactly what you need me to do and i'll do it."
I always thought i'd be demeaning him or something to say specifically How to vacum, but that is just what he wanted me to do.

Now when i need him to do something, i take the 2-3 minutes and explain how i need it to be done and he commences to do it that way.

no more fighting, i just needed more communication

men... can't live with 'em and can't live without 'em


Sweetpea

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sexymama

I admit, I can get feeling the same way -- as if I do it all. That was causing some tension between Lebell and me. Upon talking with each other, we agreed that he would have a to do list with priorities highlighted. When he finishes the tasks, he marks them off. We check in with one another about once a week. When I'm working, this becomes even more important.

The list helped me to see how many home maintenance and big projects he takes on. Although on a day to day basis it may not appear he does as much as me, he does, just in a different way.

As for projects that I want done, he is happy to do them the way he wants to do them and when he wants to do them. Once he says he'll do something, I need to be patient and let him do it, even if it is days later. It will get done!

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If you can go deeply into lovemaking, the ego disappears. That is the beauty of lovemaking, that it is another source of a glimpse of god

It's not about being perfect; it's about developing some skill at managing imperfection.

Sultana

I like this list idea a lot. And for the same reason, to show me how many tasks the hub really does do, vs. my admittedly faulty perception.

Believe it or not, I really have worked to change my attitude in the recommended ways (although it's alien as hell, LOL!), and you know what? Things are happier on the homestead. Not perfect, but happier. Things are actually getting done, and I'm letting go of...resentment, I guess.

There you go, TFP: making my life better. :P Anybody wanna buy an endorsement? lol

__________________
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath.
At night, the ice weasels come." -

Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.

genuinegirly

What a sore subject! I never feel that way myself. But my mom feels quite put-upon by hubby and family. THIS ISN"T THE CASE. We work our bums off to make her happy. I vacuum, mop, dust, clean up after my own dishes and messes... both my dad and I are incredibly neat and tidy people.

The reality of the matter is that she is very poor at communicating her needs. She NEVER stops to even use the bathroom when she feels there is something pressing to be done. And what she sees as pressing, isn't.

I'm sorry... for those of you who feel put-upon... start some hefty lines of communication.

THERE IS NO REASON FOR YOU TO FEEL THIS WAY AND IT WILL DRIVE YOUR LOVED ONES INSANE TRYING TO MEET YOUR UNSPOKEN NEEDS.


Oh, and if you think you're communicating and you still feel this way... YOU'RE NOT! Keep working at it.

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"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

bad jane

or, the other person simply doesn't care.

i'm not saying it's the majority--and you should do everything possible to make sure it's not a lack of communication. but there are some people in that boat, their partner simply doesn't care.

i tried everything with my ex--hinting, making lists, begging, ignoring it too, complaining, etc. discussion after discussion after yelling match, it made no difference. nothing worked. using laundry for example, i'd ask him to do it and he'd say ok. wouldn't get done. i'd tell him again and explain the amount of clean clothes left, he'd say ok he'll do it. wouldn't get done. i'd leave notes around the house--wouldn't get done. it would escalate to a fight, we'd get through it and he'd say he'd do it. wouldn't get done. finally, i'd break down and do my laundry. he would continue to wear dirty clothes rather than do the laundry.

it wasn't a matter of him not realizing it needed to be done. and since his only responsibility was the house, it's not like he had more pressing matters to attend to (we had no kids).

i know not every situation is that extreme--but it does happen. my current partner has no problems helping me out when asked.

genuinegirly

Ok, you worked hard at trying to make that one work. There probably are more cases of utterly negligent men. Just make sure you make the effort... and I'll keep working on my insane mom.

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"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

KinkyKiwi

ah, this is making me marriage phobic lol. i really hope biznatch and i dont have these issues. although i doubt we will he wont even let me help him do stuff. i really dont have any experience on the subject besides my father...he does tend to pull the "make a sandwich" thing...all my male friends do it as well..it starts with a simple snack and by the time they finish you cant see the counter. maybe its just a stupid thought but wouldnt it be a good idea to specify what you want at the start of a relationship? then make clear changes as teh relationship changes..like okay now that your working 14 hour days you dont have to clean the kitchen but on teh weekends your new job is laundry, or gardening or fixing things?

also, wasnt there some disney movie called mom on strike? i remember watching it a few years ago and thinking it was very funny

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Play with each other. Play with yourselves. Just don't play with the squirrels, they bite.

BugLover

I think you can analyze all you want but for the most part I call bullshit. The SO that continually "forgets" or does a half-assed job is manipulating the situation, whether he even realizes it or not. In the back of his head, he knows that if it doesn't get done or if he does a poor job of it, wife will do it for him. Look at it this way - he's training his wife for the long haul. He's willing to put up with a few years of "nagging" in order for you to eventually be trained to just do the tasks yourself.

BlueBongo

Hrmmm..I was at first into doing all of that.. and as I got busy with school and work I just got lazy. I do slack off too much... I don't like living in a mess, but at the same time when I get home from work there are a zillion other things I'll do than the dishes etc... I am working to change that and have been doing pretty well, especially with the school factor out at the moment.

I was spoiled to that point, by my ex. He pretty much did the dishes and all of that... we both had weird issues with laundry.. washing it was no problem, drying it was no problem.. but for whatever reason it would stay in a clean pile somewhere.

Dunno, I am working on changing that.. but I do think there should be some sort of contribution on the part of each person to help things be "tidy" and comfortable...

goodness knows I really didn't contribute in the past... when I first lived with an SO I did work and all that but I would come home do dishes/laundry/cleaning.. and I saw that the dork didn't really care about any of that and just took advantage.. so I stopped... and it has just carried on for too long. I need to get back into better habits :P

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"Things can only get so bad before they have no choice but to get better.."

Demeter

I got a real insight into the male mind last week. I've been working a lot, and no one seems to care about the state of the house except for me. I'm always fretting about the work that needs to be done. I never nag though, I know that's a lost cause.
So anyways, I'm sitting there thinking that there's so much that needs to be done, cat hair & dust are forming snowballs in the corners of the carpet, the dishes need to be thrown in the dishwasher, the cat is writing on the dust on the coffee table...
My man then tells me how lucky he is.
Lucky?
Yeah, I come home & suppers made, house is clean, girlfriend is cuddly.
I guess he doesn't see what I see at all.

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I am not bound to please thee with my answers.
William Shakespeare