Dael

Bear with me on this, I could really use some insight and advice with how to deal with some of my many, MANY failings.

Before I begin, I must state the fact that I know that I may come across as being very unreasonable and overbearing, and I realize this, so I don't need flames and comments about how much of an a**hole I am... what I do need is advice on how to deal with these feelings so that I don't end up ruining possibly the best relationship I could hope to have.

Enter Stage 1:

We've been dating for just over 2 years, and everything up to before the Christmas holidays has been great, with some pretty rocky bumps along the way that we've managed to get through and come out better people (both individually and for each other) on the other side. Instead of giving out our whole life stories, which would take way too long, I'll cut to the immediate problem. We go to university together in a city away from our homes and had to part company (as we always to for holidays and summer) for Christmas holidays this year. The rubber is the fact that my home town is quite small and very boring, and all my friends and people that I would socialize with are not here anymore, so I can go stir crazy/get cabin fever here. She, on the other hand, is from a big city where all her friends still are and she can have an excellent time for the holidays.

I do not begrudge her this. I just wish I had it the same way. Where things get sticky though is that in our two years together both previous Christmases have been kind of shitty because I get all miserable here with nothing to do and noone to do it with, and I feel she doesn't pay me enough attention (the highlight of my holidays are the few precious hours when we can talk or do something online together like play Scrabble or something). Now, after having been through it twice, we KNOW that this is likely to occur (my situation) every time I come home for Christmas.

Again, without divulging TMI, I just have to say that the obviously easiest fix for this is for one of us to spend Christmas at the others home each year, but unfortunately that's not really possible for us, so don't ask or suggest. So this year we come up with this plan that we'll do something, or at least talk for a bit, every day... kind of so that I can keep my sanity. Well, this worked out for a bit at the beginning, but it's all gone to shit now. She'll go out with friends and that all night without talking or doing anything with me, and then I only get to talk to her because I track her down by telephone or email or something. She's getting right pissed off at me because I'm making her 'feel obliged' to talk to me when that's not how it should be, she should want to talk to me or do something and all that. My beef here is that I thought that's what the plan was, and I say this to her, and she goes on this rant about how it's not her job to keep me entertained over the holidays and that I should get a life and shit.

I can't blame her for this attitude really; the thought has crossed my mind itself. I don't want to be this needy and dependant on my girlfriend, but there it is all the same. So I guess I'm looking for insight and such into two main things:

1. How to go about daily life in an isolated, boring as hell place without feeling all despondant and hard-done-by because I don't have my girlfriend with me. I really need help to try to ditch my neediness and dependance on her.

2. I need help coping with the feelings I get that she just doesn't think that much of me, or that I'm not at all important to her when she does something like this, even though I know I am important to her. I have to talk about this on this forum because if I talked about this with her, it would cause a fight that we might not recover from because in the past she's really gotten fed up with me regarding such feelings as this. Notice how I am not blaming or asking for help on how to deal with some imagined injustice that she has dealt me: she hasn't. I really, genuinely need help and advice on how to deal with myself.

Just on a final note, I've never done anything like this before (come to a public forum for help) so I'd appreciate any help any of you could give me. And I sure hope noone suggests 'go see a shrink' or some such, because that is not the kind of help and advice I'm looking for. Thanks all.

P.S. Sorry that this is more a relationship post, and this is the Sexuality forum, but this seemed the most likely place since there isn't a specifically relationship-oriented forum.

ratbastid

First of all, you posted this in the right place. Sexuality is where relationship questions go.

This is brilliantly said. I acknowledge your maturity and responsibility here--it would be the easiest, most automatic thing in the world to lay this at her feet and make it all her fault. Thank you for not going there.

Here's the deal: we human beings have feelings. Our feelings aren't who we are. We HAVE feelings. Sometimes it seems like our feelings HAVE us, but that's not actually how it is. We have feelings like a car has power windows. The power windows aren't the car, they're just an accessory.

The ability to observe the processes of your mind, your thoughts and feelings, disassionately and from the outside is called Mindfulness. What you're looking for is a way to expand and improve your mindfulness. One of the best tools for that is meditation. Developing your mindfulness is not a short-term process, but there are benefits to meditation that show up almost immediately.

Read <a href="http://www.enabling.org/ia/vipassana/Archive/G/Gunaratana/MindfulnessIPE/">Mindfulness in Plain English</a>, which is about as good an introduction to Vipassana Mindfulness Meditation as you're going to find anywhere. It's available in deadtree format from Amazon, but the whole thing is available online, too.

little_tippler

1. It's a shame you feel miserable in the holidays. But you should get out and about and try and make new friends, or find something you enjoy doing and apply your time on that. Try not to drive yourself crazy just thinking you're miserable and lonely. Do something better with your time. And no your hobby can't be speaking to your girlfriend every minute of the day.

2. Your girlfriend is being unreasonable. Fair enough you may feel needy and feel like you're imposing on your girlfriend, but her saying things like "and she goes on this rant about how it's not her job to keep me entertained over the holidays and that I should get a life and shit" is not right. When you're with someone, you shouild feel safe to expose your insecurities without being told to "get a life". She doesn't sound very sympathetic to your needs. And needs they are . however annoying, boring, needy, whatever they may be. Fair enough she has her own friends around at the holidays and there's just so much to do but if she loves you, she should care and make the effort. She knows just how miserable you feel and yet she tells you to your face she feels burdened...if it's such a hassle, then why is she with you?

I don't think you're being an asshole. She's your girlfriend, the one person you should be able to count on if you're feeling down. Just one more question....how old are you guys? No intention to patronize, but that could indicate the level of committment you guys are at.

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

JustJess

Quadro and I went through phases like this in college - I'd get really needy or he would, and the phase would last a while and the other person would seriously irritated and many contentious arguments would ensue.

My advice - learn to love reading, or take up a new hobby - playing a guitar, or drawing, or something that you've always thought about but never tried. Learn to be okay on your own. And she will relax.

At that age... we just had a hard time finding the balance sometimes. This sounds pretty similar. If you aren't pushing her to call you all the time and being anxious about it - she'll call more. It's not about manipulating her to do what you want, it's just giving her the opportunity and the freedom to do things she already wants to do. I know that the more he pushes me to do something, the less likely I am to do it. Stupid stubborn pride - and it's not fair, he is often right - but sometimes, people just need a chance to do things themselves without the pressure. Give her a chance.

And don't be so hard on yourself - it's hard to be in that position too. It's very vulnerable, and not very comfortable, and the best of us have a hard time being logical at that point. Just take a deep breath, and put things into context/perspective. Try to not concentrate on being miserable.

__________________
My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

peterbilt1

It seems perfectly natural to feel the way you do--I remember those feelings from college and still, even years later, have found myself feeling them again. I have learned only recently that for me, that I have to find happiness and contentment within myself where I am at. My SO and I were separated at one point for over a year, and I well remember the pain of feeling like she might be going on w/o you, and you feel stuck where you are. My answer for myself and to myself was to start each day with a spiritual exercise (reading, prayer, meditation, journalling). This allows me to create my own space for myself in my own life, and after a while, I didn't feel that gnawing empty feeling anymore. I still have days where I struggle with these feelings, just another part of the journey.

Ustwo

I am afraid I can't relate to your feelings on this so I won't be of much help there. I spent a LOT of time away from my gf (now wife), sometimes months, in a very boring and friendless location for a year, and I was away in general for another 2 years of our relationship (though not in a boring friendless location). We had no problems, and when I was bored I'd play a video game or some such. So while I have been in your same situation for much longer periods of time, it just doesn't compute.

What I am going to do is warn you though, because I've seen it in others. Most women like strong men, not needy ones. I could go on and on to why this is, but thats for another thread. Your issues with being apart are obviously annoying to her, and makes you look needy and weak. Since I've seen this sort of thing lead to break ups, just for the sake of your relationship don't let her see how miserable you are without her. Find your own solution where you can, but for her, be strong.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Mantus

Good to see you here Dael.

JustJess covered it pretty well. I'll give it my own analytical spin.
Hopefully some of these ideas will apply. If not, give us some more input.


Any relationship should be a synergy of the parts. Most people are more then happy to help another in need That's what relationships are all about. They provide insurance. However people dislike being leaned on. They resent being a crutch. It's the difference between falling down and asking another to help you up or asking them to cary you.

If you are planning your holidays around the idea of them being lame and boring, how can you expect anything else? I see this as the real issue. If your town is borring make plans to visist for a few days then go somewhere else. Go with your school friends. Suggest a family Christmas ski-trip or something. Or use the time alone to achieve goals. Catch up on reading, relaxing, exploring, whatever. Turn this time into something you will be looking forward too.

Asking your girl to be there for you is a bandaid solution. Image. Her friends ask her to go out and she tells them,
"Sorry, I have plans to spend time with my man on the net."
"Is he crippled in a hospital or something?"

I am glad you went with your instincts and didnt' call her out on this. There is nothing less attractive then neediness. The tigheter you try to hold on to someone the more they will slip from your grasp.

Cheers!

MEAD

I was in the same situtation as you not too long ago. The only way that realtionship worked was when we were both miserable, and that is not a fun realtionship to be in. When we were both unhappy we had all the time in the world to be there for each other. There are some major problems with that. 1) You realze that you've run out of stuff to say because you can only spend time talking and you arnt really out DOING anything that you can tell stories about. 2) You become very needy and easily upset. and 3) Its very easy to be jealous. Eventaully she decided to not be miserable and I didn't. It just drove us apart and made me jealous, needy, upset ect... not very much the man she attracted to in the first place. Obviously she ended up breaking up with me.
I think the best thing you can do is realize where you are at in life right now, perhaps you need to take the stress off this realtionship, do your own thing without her. She will appreciate not having foresake activities with her friends all the time for you. Which, as a friend of a person in a LDR is really annoying. Eventually, if she just has more memories of you being a hinderance to her than a source of happiness, she will want to get away from you. And not this isnt all your fault, I felt like everything was my fault when I was in your shoes and that probably made me even more upset. Be able to call her on her shit to. Girls dont want a push-over. They want someone who is strong, confident, and happy with themselves. Be that guy.

__________________
Here are some phrases I'd like to be able to say, in all honesty, before I die.
"That's it, send out the ninjas!"
"So then I had to kill my way to the second floor."

Dael

Hey guys,

Thanks for all the great advice. It's honestly been fine for the past few days as an old buddy of mine came into town and we've been hanging out, so now I'm not needing my GF for a 'crutch' so much to support my loneliness and boredom.

I agree with what some of you have said, though, regarding her commitment to the reltionship. As little_tippler said, I feel I should be able to express my insecurities and feelings to my GF without fear of getting her all pissed off at me, which she does often in this kind of scenario.

As for little_tippler's question about our ages, I'm 24 (this being my second long-term relationship) and she is 20 (also her second). I know you'll all probably say that this is very young for her and all that, but honestly I've heard it before and i don't really feel like hearing it again. She is the love of my life, and I'd like to be with her as long as I may.

I suppose I should admit that there is much more to our relationship than meets the eye here. there is some wonderful, insightful content on this forum and i've been reading quite a bit of it over the past few days. It hes recently come to my attention, then, that I believe a lot of how I behave when away from her and whatnot is a product of our sex life together. i.e. her fine with it, me not so much.

Although we get along very well together on a day to day basis and really enjoy our time with one another, we have quite different views regarding love and sex:

Her: Sex is Sex... that's it. Penis into Vagina = sex. She does not feel there is any difference between sex and fucking and making love, etc. It's all just fucking.

Me: I don't fuck... or at least I haven't before. I come from a conservative familial upbringing where there was a lot of love in the family, so I cannot, indeed will not, have sex with someone that I don't have deep feelings for. To attest to this fact, i will state that my first long-term relationship was 4 years, and we didn't have sex until after a year and a half (and she had been wanting it for like a year before I finally felt ready). As such, I feel just 'fucking' is kind of dirty... never had any one-night-stands or anything of the sort. I make love.

Well, here comes the problem with our sex life together. As I've said, we;ve been together for over 2 years, and I swear to any higher power listening that I am more infatuated with her now than I was when we first started seeing each other. Just the sight of her bending over to pick up a book or take a sweater off gets my blood bubbling with adrenaline. In a perfect world, I'd make love her at least once a day.

She's happy with like once a week... and even then it's not because she wants me, but rather she starts to feel guilty because she knows how anxious I'm getting after that length of time. This has been going on for about 5-6 months. I've read all the posts here about similar (even identical) topics, but I'm still at a loss as to what I can do to rectify this, because I definitely need it more from her. Where the problem really arises though is in our differences in perspective. She just can not understand, no matter how much i've talked to her about and tried to explain myself, that it's not just SEX I need from her. She gets upset whenever I bring this topic up because she starts thinking I'm some kind of perv or something and am only about sex sex sex.

I'm having a hard tinme conveying my true feelings here, as I do with her. I'm hoping some of you can understand where I'm coming from and put it more eloquently than me. One of the posts I read just hit such a nerve with me though, and that's what made me decide to post this here. It was pretty much along the lines of how I don't think she understands that it's not the sex I need from her, or rather not just the physical penetration of P in V, but actually I just need to feel desired/wanted by her, and I don't at all.

Now, again, this is a hangup of mine unfortunately. I know that she does want to be with me (in a realtionship). I know she loves me, and even just a few days ago she sent me flowers for no reason with a card saying she was thinking of me and loves me. However, HER expressions and feelings of love do not include the bedroom, whereas MINE DO (as I said, for her sex is just that... sex). I'm feeling lost though as to what to do. I've tried all the stuff mentioned here in revious posts (the rubs, candles, incense, dinners) and it doesn't seem to work. Not only that, but like I saw in one post, I don't feel like I should have to put a huge effort into get some loving from her EVERY TIME I want it... there'd be no romance then, because things like dinners and baths and candles and such just wouldn't be special any more. Where's her effort to make sure that I feel wanted and desired?

Well, I'm going to stop here because this is just turning into a big rant. I have more to say, but I'll wait for replies and speak in shorter bursts depending on what people think. Thanks again guys, I really appreciate all this.

tecoyah

Women are a wonderful puzzle....and no two will be the same (thank the Gods), that said.....Sex is ALWAYS going to be an adventure, with every freakin one of 'em. Realize there is no "Right" way to be intimate, and it can be work at times.....but generally worth the effort. There was a time in our history when humans screwed to have babies....that was it, we have evolved socially to enjoy it for the pleasure it brings.....For The Pleasure It Brings (worth repeating). If you get pleasure from it in different ways than she does....well....you are Human, and so is she. The perception of "Just Fucking" you see may very well be yours alone.....we cant know, and likely you wont either unless you ask, and listen.
My point is....Sex will never be a purely bliss inducing experience....but the Bliss is most definately there, if we decide to let it happen. In time, it becomes the primary reasoning for intercourse......that and watching the look on her face when you...uh...give her the cookies.

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

Dael

Well, see, the funny thing is (and this is also EXACTLY like someone else posted on this line of topic) is that when we do get... uh... going, she really enjoys it (at least she says she does, and I believe her) and her behaviour during sure seems to support this statement... furthermore, I'd say about 3 out of 4 times she'll reach the O, so I really don't know what's going on.

Again, I don't know what this might mean, but the last time we had sex (before the holidays) it was great during, and she was really really into it, and then afterwards she got all upset and started crying... and I was really concerned (obviously) as to what was wrong, and she started trying to explain how she does really enjoy sex, and how she doesn't know why she doesn't seem to want it more often (even though when we do she loves it) and she was all upset because it's a great source of stress for her because she believes she should want me more, but since she doesn't she feels really guilty about the whole mess.

I really don't know what to do. Of course I supported and comforted her about it, but when it comes right down to it, there's some problem here that needs to be addressed and (if possible) fixed. I just hope it can be, because I don't know how much longer I can go on without getting what I need.

And, to reference some other posts that people made on this line of topic, I must mention that a lot of times the suggestion is for the guy to masturbate so he can release that sexual tension. Unfortunately, this suggestion doesn't work for me. When I'm pent up sexually, I do masturbate to release the sexual tension, and it works great... but alas, that's ALL it releases... the SEXUAL, PHYSICAL tension... it does nothing to alleviate the feelings of despair and longing that come from the constant rejection and lack of feeling desired by the woman you love.

MEAD

I think we need some details in this new matter. How many times a week do you guys have sex, and how many times would you like? It may be that you want it 5 times a day everday and she cant keep up, or it may be that she might only want to go once a week and you are understandably being blue balled. I think we need to know some numbers to give you some advice.

__________________
Here are some phrases I'd like to be able to say, in all honesty, before I die.
"That's it, send out the ninjas!"
"So then I had to kill my way to the second floor."

Dael

Sorry i thought I already mentioned this. I would be ecstatic with once a day, but I realize this may be very-much-wishful thinking It actually occurs once every 10 days or so (about a week and a half). Hard to give actualy numbers because sometimes we'll go maybe 3 times in a week or so, but then sometimes there'll be like a 2 week long dry spell.

Before considering giving advice, I should mention some more information. She is understandably quite stressed a lot of the time, being a university student, and furthermore she has bouts of eczema pretty bad, which wreaks havoc on her physical and emotional well-being. However, I must restate what my problem is. I am not worried about being 'blue-balled'... as I stated, I can release this myself. My problem is that I really don't feel wanted/needed/desired by her most of the time because she seldom wants to 'be with me' in that way. I know stuff is rough for her, and I'm quite supportive about it. But after like a week of this, man I'm ready to launch. And the thing that's bad is that the desire doesn't really seem to pick up when she's in a good phase Anyway, I think that's enough for now. Any more questions just ask.

MEAD

Sorry, I didnt see where you mentioned it before. But hmm yes this does seem a bit out of the ordinary for you guys since you both are still young. Don't imediatly think of yourself as the problem though. You cant always blame yourself, there really is most likely a better explaination, than "its all my fault."

__________________
Here are some phrases I'd like to be able to say, in all honesty, before I die.
"That's it, send out the ninjas!"
"So then I had to kill my way to the second floor."

uptown

she only wants it once a week now... and goes along rather grudgingly.

Flash forward 10 yrs and 2 kids later.. your sex life will be but a dim memory.

Sex isn't everything in as relationship/marriage but if you've got major differences in desire level it's a real red flag.

Dael

You know, I don't want to offend anyone here, but I really have to say that I'm really tired of hearing that old cliche.

My girlfriend says this all the time when I try to bring this problem up too. "Sex isn't everything in a relationship". No shit, but a piston isn't the only component of a car, either, and it sure as hell won't be everything it's supposed to be without it. And besides, AGAIN I have to reiterate that my beef isn't the lack of sex. This is the trouble my girlfriend has a problem seeing too, and I'm at least a little relieved to see that she's the not the only one who doesn't seem to get it. Sex, unfortunately, just happens to be a consequence of what i need... to feel wanted and desired by the woman I love. If there's a way for me to feel that way without sex being a consequence, then by all means tell me so that I can suggest it to my GF... I'm willing to try anything at this point.

jusolson00

Alright, I know how you feel.. to a point i guess as I've had some of those feelings years ago with a girl.... You could have all the sex in the world and you would still feel that way. That feeling of not being wanted/desired. I guess for me it was open, honest communication that made me feel closer to her, when we were lying in bed, close to each other and talked about "us",, and I mean guinenly talked. I KNEW it real and honest and that made me feel great. You mentioned that she does other things for you.... these things I would think are her way of telling you that she does care and want you, otherwise she wouldnt put the effort into doing them for you. I learned long ago that it truely is the little things in a relationship that make it special. And when she can make you feel like the most important guy in the world with just words alone (read.--> open/honest communication) than you know you have something special.
It also sounds like you have a problem with the way she see's sex, as just "fucking" as you put it. And you want to make love. Two styles, two different emotional outcomes. here's my question/suggestion.. How is the foreplay? Would long, sensual foreplay give you the desire that your looking for? Does she give you foreplay, or just get down to business? Maybe you can have the best of both worlds... maybe not.. well give it a shot and let us know how it goes. best of luck.

JustJess

*laughs to herself as she remembers having these conversations with her own guy*

Dael, are you *sure* you're not Quadro with a new name???

Okay. There is a concept in the relationship world - "love languages". Everyone understands and recognizes love and affection in different ways. Many men express their love and affection through sexual means, but many women do not understand it in that manner. Conversely, many women express their love and affection in ways that may not register to many men. An irony, actually. But anyway, this might help you to explain what you're missing to your GF. Would physical closeness of any kind help you to feel that affection you need, or is it only the sexual part that can do it for you?

So when you talk to her, talk about your EMOTIONAL needs, not your sexual needs. Because it's not about sex, it's about emotion. Sex is just the physical representation of love to you. And find out what kind of expressions of love she's looking for as well. Think about and experiment with all the ways that love could be communicated to you and to her. Remember that her sending you random flowers is her way of expressing love and affection (I know, I do it myself!), so take it as thus.

As for the libido being low... it's hard hard hard to talk about and do something about. I know how she feels exactly - Quadro is beautiful and sexy and everything I want, but I can't force my hormones to react properly and give him that expression of love that he needs. Considering she's 20, it may be physical. Is she on B/C pills? I'm finding that my libido has been better in the last month... my first month off B/C. I don't know if that's possible so soon, but it seems like an improbable coincidence. And I've heard a lot of anecdotal evidence supporting the idea that some women have a lower libido on hormonal B/C.

If it's not B/C or something else physical... I wish you luck in being patient. It's a tough subject. I've said it before on this forum... sometimes, you just can't help it. I WANT to have a libido, probably more than Quadro wants me to. There's a lot of guilt and depression and otherwise yucky feelings associated with that. I want to give him what he needs. The best thing you can do is try to allow her to be in control of that - don't pressure (and you'd be amazed what little can be construed as pressure, and no, we don't think it's fair, but it's how we emotionally react, unfortunately). Try to let her instigate it as much as possible, even when you want to be with her so badly. And be physically affectionate all the time, not just when you're hopeful for some sexual closeness. That will give her more opportunities to take it to another level. Also, if you want to start something, try doing so at times of the day OTHER than bedtime (not when you're due to be somewhere, we worry about that stuff sometimes). Bedtime often equals booty time for many people, and perhaps that pressure contributes to her concerns/low libido.

And remember, women's libido is a sensitive thing. Exhaustion, health, and stress are major factors. No matter what, more sleep = more booty for me, and I've heard similar things from other women.

Good luck. Be patient. Things will improve!

__________________
My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.