iblade

My girlfriend broke up with me yesterday. To sum up the situation, I am a 20 y.o. French guy in Japan. I have been here since August, and will be here until mid December. I have been with my girlfriend, who is japanese and 29, for two month. I have clearly stated that when I go back to France, it will not be possible to continue the relationship, mostly because of the distance, but also because I believe she will and should be searching for husband material at that time (these matters are very important in Japan - there is common belief that all girls should be married before 25, and you have no idea how social pressure is strong there).

I wasn't that much into her at first. I found her cute, interesting and funny, and that's why I wanted to go out with her. But little by little I really liked her more and more. I must add that she is my first girlfriend...

Anyways, yesterday, out of the blue she tells me that she wants to break up with me because recently she realized that she liked me, and she fears that if we go on together, she will like me more, and it will hurt her more when I go back to France. That's why she's breaking up now.

Needless to say I am speechless, and that I almost cried when she said, "I'm afraid that I will love you more if we stay together". I don't know what to do, what to think... I am in a total state of apathy.

What should I do?

ngdawg

I think you may be using the wrong word. Apathy is a feeling of indifference, uninterested.
There's really not much you can do. Her reasons are valid, to want to stop before it gets so serious, she's hurting when you leave.
Enjoy the memories of her and know that it's for the best for both of you. Perhaps in time, you can keep in touch at least. It's nice to have at least some contact with people you cared about.

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serlindsipity

she went into self defense mode. you set it all out on the table in the most honest manner (kudos) and she agreed to it. she may have felt that she too was potentially setting herself up for disaster. She's got to protect whats important (her emotion, self, and future)

i guess unless you are planning on renigging on your decision and if you two stay together, perhaps you will have to show that you will take the necessary steps to stay there. but are you at a point where you are long term as well?

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iblade

I don't plan to turn this into long term. Like I said, her priority is finding a husband, it's the best for her. I am nowhere near finishing my studies or being able to support anyone. And I love her, but it's closer to very deep affection than true passion.

So you guys agree with her? I was thinking that we had so much good time together that for the remaining month, we could continue to be together... Is it wrong?

And referring to apathy, I was using it in the sense of lack of emotion. But I may be mistaken since I always thought it meant incapacity to feel pain.

WillyPete

Be aware that the knowledge that you are leaving, the fact that this is your first serious girlfriend and that she feels strongly for you, can create a 'false positive'.

It will make things seem to be something that they might not be.

If it really is the kind of love worth fighting for, then either don't go back to France or have her visit. See if it can last through that.
If you cannot realistically answer yes to the above then it would be best to discuss it with her and make a sensible choice.

She may already have done that for you.

Sometimes the hardest part of loving someone is to watch them be happy with someone else.

iblade

I am back with her. She called me last thursday and asked me if I wanted to come to her place to talk. She said that she didn't feel good about the fact that she only gave her opinion about the break up on monday, and wanted to hear mine.

So I told her. I told her that of course I did not want things to continue once I go ack to France. Because of the age difference. Because of the distance. Because I'm a student. Because she needs to find a husband. Not just because I was selfish. I told her that I did not truly love her in a passionate way, but that I had true deep affection for her. And I told her it would be a waste to not spend the remaining month together. That I wanted to make her feel happy for that time.

She told me that she was not truly in love with me either (she used 恋愛　RenAi, meaning passion/true love) but that she loved me very much still.

So I had been totally honest with her. But for some reason, after we had both laid our hearts in front of each other, I started playing a seduction game again, like I did when I first met her. I guess it worked, cause I had her all smiling by the time I left. Later she mailde me that she wanted to date me. We met on Saturday and may I say that that night was the best sex we ever had?

Any input on this would be welcome...

martinguerre

i've gotten stung on this one...

the time to avoid the shitstorm was a long time ago, to negotiate in advance of a deadline what the end will look like. Learn this lesson, and your heart will probably never get broken as hard.

best of luck with the rest of your time there.

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Sultana

I don't understand...you know you're going to leave, she's trying to keep herself from getting too emotionally involved, and you want her to remain vulnerable and probably hurt more when you leave so you can enjoy a few more weeks?

I think if you care about her, you would help her make the transition while you're still there. It's not like you're star-crossed lovers torn apart by unyeilding fate. You made this plan at the beginning. Her emotions have run ahead of the game (as they so often do, hard to control, those emotions), and she's trying for damage control. I think your role as a caring, affectionate friend should be to help minimize her pain. Pain you *know* with a certainty is going to happen.

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At night, the ice weasels come." -

Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.

Cynthetiq

sorry about this but you are being a selfish bastard. you laid it out on the table so that you were upfront. She made a decision based on how she feels on it and you were upset by it? that's called LIFE.

the fact that you wish that she would continue on up until the day you leave makes me feel you are being a selfish bastard.

If she's in husband looking mode then you being involved for the last month could possibly be a jeopardy to that since all the people she could be walking past could be long term relationships.

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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

maleficent

^^^ What he said^^^
You are not being fair to her at all... You've got no future with her.. but you won't let her go because you don't want to be alone...

All i can say is Karma will get you..

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Cynthetiq

let's turn the tables on this one..

if some girl YOU were interested in... would you want her to string you along???? would you want someone to do that to you because they want companionship or an on call piece of ass?

she's probably secretly hoping that you'll change your mind, maybe she can change your mind, mabye she can do something to change your mind, etc. and not saying different because it shows that she's more vulnerable.

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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

iblade

Wow thanks for the input. Unfortunately for me, it's against me.

Now let's clear up some points. First of all, I did not force her to anything.

Two weeks ago, we go on a weekend to 温泉 (onsen, japanese hot springs)together. We rent a car, everything is fine. Insider note, that I didn't know at the time and she told me recently: it's on that week end, when I mentioned my return to France, that she realized she loved me. From that point, she's been thinking about the break up.

Saturday, one week ago: we have one of our greatest dates ever. I slept at her place friday night, and we spent the day together. It was really nice.

Sunday night: she sends me a text saying: Let's be friends for the remaining time. I say WTF?

Monday night: I go to her place to talk. She explains longly her point of view. I think to myself: "Break ups are hard. But think about it. It's moderately hard for you now. But if it was later, it'd be more painful for her when you leave." I think, "Okay, take it on you and remain good friends". Before leaving, I tell her: "I will never forget you." She is my first after all.

Tuesday to thursday: I meet her in the morning (we live close by). I'm smiling, trying to be "A good friend" and all.

Thursday night: She texts me asking me if I want to talk about it, and come to her place, cause she doesn't feel good telling only her version of the story. So I go there, tell her how I feel, that from me it's not true passion, but that I love her very nuch, and that I want to spend the remaining time making her happy and being with her as a couple. I explained what I said above, my feelings, and she said that she did not feel "True love" towards me either, and said she also wanted to do so.

I was completely honest. And I did not force her. I don't see what I am doing wrong. Of course we have no future together. How about enjoying the time remaining? She said I gave her some of the happiest times of her life. I feel the same too. I just don't want to think: damn, we had one more month, it could have been so good.

h.n. cheerios

i dont think you did anything wrong. you told the truth. love is just love. theres nothing wrong or right about it.

alansmithee

I have to jump in here. For one, nobody thinks you "forced" her into anything. But you are sending some crazy mixed signals. She wants to call it off because she doesn't want to get too close, which is sensible. And you also feel there's no real future past a month or so. But you still want some fun (a.k.a. someone to screw while you're still in Japan) so you don't want to break it off. So when she invites you over again, instead of respecting her initial wishes and letting the relationship end cleanly, you go over there and list the reasons why you can't be together, then in your words "started playing a seduction game". This is after you admitted you have no real passion for her. Now, you say she also said this, but was this before or after you told her. Because if it's after, I don't see many people after hearing someone doesn't feel any passion for them and they have no chance at a real relationship would then say they are passionately in love. It sounds like to me she was just trying to make you feel better and save some face. But again, instead of letting her go and start getting over you, you push the issue, probably giving her some hope. You claim you want to make her happy? Let it go, and break it off clean and totally instead of leading her on. Because now, she's probably thinking there's some way she can either convince you to stay, carry on a long distance relationship, or move back to France with you if she just makes you happy enough. Personally, I think you are being horribly selfish, cruel, and childish. But hey, if you can live with yourself, more power to you.

iblade

What is wrong with the situation here? Two adults have made choices upon their own free will. What are you condemning me of?

maleficent

you aren't being condemed -- your choice is being questioned by some people...

you clearly don't think you are doing anything wrong - so I'm not sure what the point of your thread was --

What some people have a problem with is that you have told this woman you want no future with her - and rather than have you spend your last month in japan alone... you are keeping her on a string.. yes it's her choice but you know what she wants.. and you won't give that to her. I'd agree wth alan that you are being selfish... you are not thinking of her at all here...

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iblade

Not that I don't want to. But that it would be unreasonable to try to have a future together when I go back. What is wrong with two people committing themselves to each other for a limited period of time?

Hum. I don't see what she wants. Or at least what you think she wants.

I started this thread because I found it hard to break up with someone who tells you "I still love you." I found it so really hard. But I tried to accept it.

Then we talked and I was honest. I told her what I wanted, and she agreed. That's all. There is no doubt in my mind anymore. I was with her this week end. And when I see her face so happy, it makes me happy too. It's just about two people making each other happy.

Rubyee

iblade, you aren't being condemed. But we can't understand what you find wrong with this situation.

There is nothing wrong with laying it all out on the table. And there is nothing wrong with what she did.

It should end there. Why do you want her heart to break even more? The more time the two of you spend together acting like nothing is going to happen, the more hurt she will be.

You had good intentions at first. Just let her go.

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iblade

I just can't do that. I don't have the feeling that I did anything wrong in my heart. The only feeling I have is that I am happy when I am with her. And that she is happy when she is with me. That is the reason why I will make the most out of the remaining time.

Cynthetiq

and she made the conscious decision to end the relationship which took courage and strength to do. Then you did your "seductive" thing and that IMO wasn't respectful of her wishes to have a clean break of being friends.

Again, you're being selfish and not thinking about how SHE feels or will feel.

I again ask you, if the shoe was on the other foot and you thought you had a chance to keep a relationship with a totally banging hot woman who said, "Sorry, I just don't see a future with you," and you kept in your heart of hearts thinking that you there was a chance that it still may change, and it didn't would you like that person to keep dicking around with your emotions?

Adult doesn't mean being of age to make decisions. Adult means considering what consequences can happen and accepting of those consequences.

You laid it out on the table. She gave her response, and you responded with the "seductive" game. IMO not very adult at all.

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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

pig

iblade,

i can see where you're coming from. based on the second conversation y'all had, it could sound like you're on an even page. do you think she's telling you the truth? do you think that she truly doesn't have deeper feelings for you than you do for her? do you know her past history enough to know how many relationships she's been in, etc? given the contrast in your posts, it's possible that she's setting herself up for more pain, per your first post...only that its convenient for you to believe what she's saying now. then again, despite what the crowds are saying...life is short, and gather ye rosebuds while ye may, and traveling through the world and having the times of your youth and so on...in my opinion, it's a tough call. the thing is, you're french. thus you must follow up on the passion...it's your calling

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iblade

But what? I made it clear since the beginning. I made it clear that considering our respective situations, we have no future together (as a couple, once I go back).

Did I do my seductive thing on purpose? I don't know. Maybe yes, maybe no. From what I remember, it was pretty natural.

Before leaving I said: "Lovers share different feelings than friends. Take time to think about it. Tell me wether you want to spend the reamining time as friends or as lovers. Whatever your choice, I will do my best to remain your friend because you are important to me." And I left. The next day, she told me "I want to date you."

"I'm not thinking about how she feels." I don't agree. Right now she feels happy. In my opinion, the main issue here is: "Is the happiness created by being together for the remaining time worth the pain we will experience through separation?" My answer is yes.

iblade

You're right about the french thing.

Aphrodite

Oh, poor girl, poor both of you.
Hopefully the knowledge that it will end will prevent her from falling too much in love with you... but from the fact that she tried to break up with you a month early, it sounds like she already has.

But what's done is done, and hearts mend, so don't stress too much about it.

tecoyah

I was quite close to a Japanese woman long ago...she was first generation American and from experience I will say....she may very well be telling the truth. My relationship ended in much the same way when she understood just how unlikely a heavy metal vocalist was to spend his life with a traditional Japanese girl. At the time I really didnt care one way or another....but in hindsight (and thanx....cool memories)...it was cruel of me to put her through...uh...well ,Me.

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Cynthetiq

okay... I've been too busy to add what I wanted to add a couple of days ago, so here it is.

I used to be an expatriate in Singapore for about 1 year. I would return for a few years each Christmas to be with my family. I befriended many other expatriates and locals. Many people would date, hook up, screw around etc.

Everyone knew that the time was finite and that heartbreak was just around the corner. They said the could handle it. They said the would be mature about it. But I can count on one hand how many people of my friends that were not heartbroken over it. I thought I could handle it. I couldn't.

I was the shoulder that many girls cried on, lamented on how painful it was. They said they knew, they understood that it was coming but still carried on with the relationship because "being with someone was better than being alone." Or so they thought... but the reality of it was that the pain of the heart was more painful than the loneliness.

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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

HalcyonDaze

I can't say I blame you, iBlade. But I think she's making a bad decision. I think she's hoping you will change your mind, and that's why you're still together.

If she were the one that had started this thread, I would be telling her "This isn't going to last. The sooner you break up with him, the sooner you will get over him and find someone else that will make you even happier. You made the right decision the first time, and going back to him will just make it harder on yourself. What if you pass over the ideal husband because you're wasting one more month with this guy?"

It's best for her if you break up now. I can't say I would blame you for not breaking up with her, but it would be good of you to make things easier on her and be her friend (not lover) for the remainder of your stay.

Bob Biter

iblade, I've been in a situation very similar to yours. I lived in Japan (Sendai) for 2 years and met a Japanese woman about 3 months before I came back. I'd had Japanese girlfriends before, but this was to be the last one. In all the relationships I've had there, I was never fully committed or in love, since I knew I would go back home at some point. Like you, I would be totally honest about this to everyone, and that last woman was no different. I was 26, she was 31. Obviously, she was in marriage mode and had actually been married before to a Filipino and lived in Guam for a few years.

Basically, she said she understood my situation and would spend some time with me regardless. Of course, the Japanese are very accomodating and I slowly realized that she was just being this way so that I could see how devoted she was to me, and hopefully change my mind about her and marry her/take her back to Canada/stay in Japan longer. I told her the same things you did: I like being with her; we have a good time when we're together; I have no intentions to pursue this when I get back; etc. She could've stopped seeing me at anytime, but she kept on, probably because her cultural mentality is different than mine, not just the male/female mentality. "Ganbaru" or "to persevere" is the core of Japanese thought. The ability to hold on and endure tough times is a point of great pride for them. Therefore, perhaps she's just hoping against hope that you'll come around right before you leave... maybe do something grand like rip your return ticket up in front of her and tell her you'll always be hers. This might sound cheesy, but soap operas in Japan are the same as back here. My girlfriend at the time, Marie (ma-ri-eh) became more and more distraught as I was preparing to leave, despite her knowledge that the relationship would end.

Also, as was pointed out in another post, she might just be saving face. Leaving on a good note is also a big thing for the Japanese. Perfect strangers would usually rather ensure that the other person is satisfied than have any hard feelings. Furthermore, there are two facets of the Japanese personality: tatemae (literally the "image in front" or façade) and honne (literally the "root of being" or true feelings). Tatemae is the face most Japanese show to others. Salarymen in particular use it all the time: even if they want to kill their boss (which would be "honne" - what they really feel), you'd think that they loved him deeply. It's kind of like "super-tact".

Therefore, your girlfriend might be kicking her tatemae into high gear right now, accomodating you and making everything just as you wanted, so that you can leave with good feelings of her. Even if you would tell her over and over that it would be better that you two broke up, she would still see this as a negative. The fact that she broke up with you first set off lots of alarm bells in my head, iblade. I stongly suspect that this was a test of your convictions and that you just failed it. Basically, she wanted to make sure whether or not you cared for her. In her mind, had you been serious when you agreed that you both would be better off as friends, you wouldn't have put the moves on her and showed interest at rekindling the relationship. That's why she wanted to hear "your side of the story" IN PERSON.

Be prepared for a break down on her part (or at least another "we have to talk") between now and your departure date. Trust me, you won't see it coming (I certainly didn't), despite things going very well.

Gambatte ne!

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iblade

Hahaha. So very true. I've only read the messages today, but yesterday something happened. And it is very close to what you said Bob.

Okay, so I go to spend the week end with her. I sleep at her place saturday evening, evrything is going well. Sunday morning, when we wake up, we have sex, but right after that she just turns away from me, saying nothing at all. We had decided to go visit Osaka, but, suddenly she just tells me "kaette" (go home). I can hear by the tone in her voice that she is not joking so I just decide to go back. I have not heard from her since, despite the messages I left.

The thing is, for many week ends before, even though we decided that we would do stuff on sunday, we would always leave very late cause I would not get up early enough. So yesterday, I asked her if she thought I was selfish for doing that and she said yes. I guess this just triggered this reaction on her part.

Anyways, reading your post, I realized my delfishness during the whole relationship. EVen though I made her happy. I guess choices must be made at some point...

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