Ustwo

Virginity as a virtue is something relatively modern in the Western world.

Its a big deal because we make it into a big deal, not because it in itself is that important.

Its one of the minor reasons why I've always been annoyed by Christianity, the Romans had a much healthier view on sex.

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Coppertop

It definitely changes you, but it proably won't Change you.

skinnymofo

careful flushing rubbers, one of our drains was clogged up full ofem, imagine the look on my parents faces when they saw what was causing the blockage

LoganSnake

As a guy, the answer is a definite no. There is absolutely no difference before and after you do it.

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serlindsipity

I can only imagine how awkward that would be! The thought of that happening to me makes me go numb.

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iblade

Aren't you supposed to NOT put condoms in the toilet?

gotekix

It didn't change my outward personality much, but it made me feel better inside for a while. Call it confidence if you will.

I'm so glad it's over now because of the stigmatism that entails being a virgin. That's not why I did it, but it's an added benefit to not have people look down on you as being shy or weak just because you haven't had sex yet. It used to piss me off when my friends were having a discussion about sex then they'd look at me and make some sly comment about how "one day I'll learn."

iblade

Yeah, pretty frustrating...

Now I'm all excited about how I can have in depth sex discussion with my friends...

monkeysugar

First and foremost, congratulations on getting laid.

It can be fun at times to participate in these type of conversations, but in the interest of continued sexual activities, it's best to keep these type of discussions fairly hush-hush, lest the object of your erection/affection decides they don't want to continue providing you with material for said discussions .

In response to your original post, I had a nice spring in my step and a big shit-eating grin on my face for the rest of the morning. Other than that, I don't really think anything changed. I didn't become more confident, but I think that once I had sex, I stopped thinking about it as much.

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iblade

Yup. My case too. And I'm thinking the ladies can feel this.

nightstuff

Hehe, sometimes you have no better alternative, trust me. Just make sure you wrap it very tightly in lots of t-paper. But yeah, probably as bad as tampons, Id imagine.

Totally OT, but...Had a new gf that was over at my mom's for dinner, that excused herself to the bathroom. The downstairs one was occupied, so she used the upstairs. Some moments later, water was running through the ceiling. Seems a tampon had clogged the toilette... my mom was totally cool about it, but god was my gf humiliated.

SERPENT7

The fact that we still think losing your virginity is the modern equivilent to putting on a cloak of bravery shows how sex obsessed we are as a culture.
I mean, why do people feel they are defined through only one aspect of thier personality? 'Did i screw' Do i screw'?
While on the other hand, when my best friend told me she was not a virgin (Shes an ex-religious girl, and comes off as being still a little in to it, if you see my meaning.) it changed the way i felt about her. I was more relaxed towrds her, and alot less self-concious about language, for instance. (I have a potty mouth sometimes.)
For myself, I started to gain confidence, but only as a result of other life-changes, not the sexx itself.

iblade

I guess this has a lot to do with the influence of the media, and more importantly, all the recent teen movies...

CandleInTheDark

The whole experience was underwhelming. Nothing changed, it was less than spectacular.

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Philosopher

I'm still a virgin. One of those sorts who is waiting to lose it when they are in love. I figure it would be more special that way.

But I have participated in oral sex. The first time I was like, well this is fun. I don't think it changed me though, physically or psychologically. I still haven't achieved orgasm, but all in good time. Maybe that would result in a change.

iblade

When I lost my virginity, I felt that sex was such a vast and difficult thing to master. I kept thinking to myself "Damn, you should have started this earlier. You'd be much better now." Sex is about love, agreed. But it's also about skill. My current girlfriend told me that she orgasmed only once in her life before me.

If you truly love your partner, how can you accept to not be able to give him/her pleasure during sex?

match000

Why should you need to go all the way? If a woman finds you 'very cute' or 'very attractive', isn't it safe to assume that hypothetically if you played all your cards right she'd do it with you? And therefore you can chalk that off to a virtual-victory, and walk away all the more confident.

I gather this is probably how hot women think when they get hit on all the time.

iblade

I don't understand what you mean. Are you saying that a virgin can pretend he's not one and play it all cool and confident?

I agree, but there is a difference in pretending and actually being.

MEAD

For me a definite change happened, however I think it only lasted while I was in the realtionship. Now that I've been single a while and without sex, I kinda feel like I did when I was a virgin. Although I can look back and say, "Hey, I've gotten laid" but it's hardly anything more than that. When I look back on it it's almost just like a more vivid fantasy. However, I have to say that there was a huge ammount of confidene I gained after all was said and done. I never thought before that it was ever going to happen and that I'd be a virgin for a loooong time. It was good to have an intimate relationship with someone I loved. And I think that is the key part in why it affected me. I had sex with someone I loved, that was the real accomplishment.

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simivin

iblade,

I certainly think that a virgin can not only "play" or "pretend" to be cool and confident, but actually can be.

For me, I think I've actually lost a little bit of confidence after losing my virginity (at age 21), primarily, I think, because of the insecurities that developed because my girlfriend was not. However, a year or so before losing my virginity, when I was just a single guy, I was extremely confident -- more confident around women than I had almost ever. Can women sense confidence? Sure they can. Just like a guy can sense it in a girl. Do you need sex to do this? I would submit not. And if you feel you do, then your priorities might be a little misplaced -- better to figure out how to be confident youself without relying on losing your virginity to do so.

If you think I was just "pretending" to be confident when I was a virgin, tell me; I'd be curious to hear why you think that. And if you think I was an exception to the rule, I'd like to know that too, and why. Just curious why you're intent on making generalizations -- I mean, maybe for you that's how it was, but for plenty of other people, I'm sure it wasn't the case.

Sim

iblade

Virgins can be cool and confident. Agreed. But sex will always remain a big question mark to them. It is unfortunately a rite that we have to pass to enter into manhood. This is what I beleive. My opinion is that losing one's virginity is such an important matter in the cultural background of our societies...

Can anyone who lost his virginity claim that it all went with total confidence. We all ask ourselves questions when doing it for the first time, even more than before doing it. "Is that the right hole?" "Why can't I ejaculate?" "How does it feel for her?" "What's that expression on her face, what am I doing wrong?" "I'm coming, was it too fast?"

These questions find their answers in acting, and practising, and loving. There is a new level of confidence that you gain by going through this process. That is my point.

match000

Yes, for one, if you DO pretend, you don't have to pretend, so you actually are real.

Haha. so it's alot easier than pretending. But hey, if you are a super actor / pimp, I bet you could pretend 100%. But then again, if you could pretend 100%, you wouldn't need to in the first place!

For me, its just confidence. I get more confident when girls hit on me or when girls tell their friends they find me very cute.

denton

The only way it changed me is by taking a monkey off my back, I was 16 and felt real old to be a virgin then (older brother and friends said so). I really put too much into other's opinions back then. The chick was a total skank, didn't even like her, it was the worst sex of my life, but it had to be done (practice on the ugly ones my bro said). But I don't regret it bc at that point I could move on.
And from that point on I always have known "how long has it been since I got some?", whereas this didn't exist before.

match000

No, I disagree. I have had a few chances with girls I had no attraction to, and there was no way I would do that. I don't think I could live with my decision afterwards because its like, why do it if you find then unattractive...!

simivin

True, I can grant that -- it's hard to know something until you experience it.

Perhaps. In some sense, that is what American (and many other) societies have described it as. Do I think it really, fundamentally has anything to do with manhood? No, I don't. I think there are plenty of things I have done that are a better representation of my maturity and manhood than just sex. But, society does tend to create this image of sex as that rite of passage -- into manhood or womanhood. Whether or not that is as important as you say is a matter of individual internalization of this pespective.

I agree, I suspect that no one who lost their virginity had complete confidence when doing it. I know I didn't. However, I would say that some (or perhaps even many) of those questions are still applicable even after you've gained this "confidence." "How does it feel for her" or "what's that expression on her face mean" or "what am I doing wrong; what can I do better" are not something you answer once and for all by losing your virginity; you should ask it all the time to make sure you are being the best lover possible. And I think you would agree with this -- I am just explicitly stating it all because you seem to have been focusing on virginity, specifically, with less focus on the process of as a whole.

Point is: losing your virginity is an act like any other; however, it is given a great/lesser degree of strength from whatever society and culture you are in. How much this affects someone, and therefore affects their perception of losing their virginity, is dependent on how much they internalize this pressure and how they perceive sex themselves. Ultimately, this means there is no prescribed outcome for how losing their virginity will affect someone and therefore generalizations about gaining confidence, losing confidence, feeling better/worse about sex -- whatever -- have no substantative grounds. Confidence for a person can be gained without sex; confidence in sex, as I think you might be talking about (and might have been referring to when you said "acting, and practising, and loving" or a "process") is not intrinsically gained by losing your viriginity, even if it answers a "question", but more by experience and constant improvement.

Did I wonder about sex and such when I was a virgin? Sure I did; a lot. Do I regret not losing my virginity when I was younger? At the time, no, but now, yes -- for many different reasons. Did it make a difference when I did? Maybe, but I don't really think so. But even so, when I step back and consider it objectively, do I really think that sex as an act itself -- minus the chaff that is societal, cultural, and peer pressures -- is hugely profound? No, I don't.

Sim

maleficent

Losing one's virginity does not make a male type person a man. Being a man comes from character and only from character not from whether they have or haven't had sex.

It might be a right of passage, but it doesn't make one a man.

I know 22 year old virgins who are more of man than a 40 year old fella who's beens fucking around since he was 15...

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volover

I think it does raise your self esteem. You finally realize that someone does want you.

doncalypso

That is very true and it holds for both men and women.

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simivin

Ironic -- it lowered my self-esteem tremendously, I think. But, that's probably a result of my insecurity with the fact that I've had sex with one girl, and my GF has had 7 other partners. Oh well. Unfortunately, I'm still trying to deal with my own insecurities due to my lack of experience -- and wishing I hadn't waited so long under somewhat mistaken ideals, in retrospect. Not only would I have more experience, but I wouldn't have made some characteristic mistakes with my GF (ie, asking questions of which the answers bothered me). Chasing Amy, man, and she's my Amy -- I'm just trying not to lose her because I can't handle it.

iblade

Simivin, you just expressed precisely my point in your previous post... I'm shocked.

Losing one's virginity is a rite. Because it is anchored in our subconscious, in our cultural background. It makes you a man depending on what you consider being a man or not. I agree that in no way it proves maturity. But I personnally see in it a test of manhood. Making love to a woman is in someway proving that you are a man.

Now, the best way to answer this thread is to make clear comparisons: Before/After.

The first one I see is:

Before: I kept thinking about it.
After: I thought about it a lot less.

Therefore, I feel more relaxed, more cool in some way.

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la petite moi

The only thing that changed in me was that I was like: dude, what's the big deal?

simivin

iBlade,

If you'd like to think that I supported your argument, by all means, go ahead. It is, in some sense, a rite, but not in any intrinsic value of the action but due to cultural/societal influence. I still adhere to my points, however: it does not prove maturity, nor do I think it is a "test" of manhood nor "proving" that you are a man. Like Mal said: "Losing one's virginity does not make a male type person a man. Being a man comes from character and only from character not from whether they have or haven't had sex. It might be a right of passage, but it doesn't make one a man. I know 22 year old virgins who are more of man than a 40 year old fella who's beens fucking around since he was 15..."


Even your clear comparison only makes one point clear: that is how you feel. That's my main contention with the things you've said -- if you want to say that it made you feel more like a man, by all means, go ahead (even if I think you shouldn't need to base anything on that). But to imply that that's the case with everyone, or even a majority, or is inherent as a result of having sex is just ludicrous to me. Ok, it made you feel more confident in yourself, more "cool"; me, I feel worse off (even though my partner is incredible and I'd like to think I am more than adequate). Like I said, look at your "clear comparison" and leave it at that -- it was talking in the first person only.

Sorry, I don't have time to review/revise because I have to get off to work right now. But I'm still interested in hearing what you have to say.

Sim

mfe

For a long time I was in the uncomfortable situation of being a virgin but pretending I wasn't. Not saying that I besmirched any particular young lady's good name...but people just assumed that I wasn't a virgin, and I didn't feel like going out of my way to correct them. When you look at pop culture of the mid 90's...from the Simpsons to Friends to just about any movie, there's joke after joke about sex, and it was just easier to smile and laugh like I'd been there.

So yes, losing my virginity did change me. But I must say, being in a committed relationship and getting sex on a regular basis changed me even more.

little_tippler

I can't speak for anybody else but losing my virginity changed me. I was 17 and thought I was far too old to still be one. Most of my close girl friends still were too though. I still thought I was too old to go on being one. I had my first time with someone who at the time meant something to me and I felt it was the right time. In retrospect, and ironically, I think I wasn't ready and I wish I'd waited a while longer. Weird huh?

It changed me in the sense that I didn't have to wonder about it anymore and think it was this really important thing I had to start doing, and also it changed my mindset and made me grow more aware of people who really were interested in me, and those who just wanted to get in my pants. Sex lost it's adolescent importance and shed clarity on a few things for me, once I'd had it.

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We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
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And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

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iblade

Simivin,

When you said,

I felt that you had just expressed what I meant.

I'm not saying that losing one's virginity is a rite, but that it is considered a rite. What sources do I use to prove my point? Well look at any teen movie/show to see how the media can influence the population in beleiving that... And I'm not saying it is something they created, because I beleive it is something present in most of the cultures of the world. Losing one's virginity is one of the rites of passage into manhood. For example look at the so called "closed houses" (prostitution) that existed in Europe up to the beginning of the 20th century, and that still do in some places, where young men would go to finish their "education" and become a man. That's what I'm saying, it's a cultural thing. And hence, being a cultural heritage, I beleive it influences the lives of a majority of the population (feeling shame being an old virgin for example).

What I am trying to do is only to share experiences about losing our virginity and if it changed us. And I'm trying to collect objective answers. It did not tremendously change me, but I am not obsessed with it anymore, and I feel more confident at least about sex, which is something that I beleive, women notice. These were the changes in my case.

I'm curious, why did losing your virginity make you feel worse?

mfe,

About the constant sexual references, agreed, it was annoying. I can't wait to get back with my friends and finally enjoy a good talk about sex. And not just "pretend that I know" anymore.

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simivin

I agree with a lot of what you said this time iblade. I agree that it is culturally impressed upon people. But like I said, my main contentions were:

- Sweeping generalizations about what losing one's virginity does-- it can't be objective answers, like you said, but only subjective and relative (ie, read post 16 when you say "definately")
- Assuming that just because a cultural standard establishes it as a right of passage means that it inherently (outside of a cultural context) is one
- Implying that there is some tangible, physical change that transitions someone to "manhood"
- Implying that women notice that you're confident b/c of having sex - they certainly might notice confidence, but I don't think it's contingent on having sex. Confidence can be gain entirely without having sex, and women can still notice.

But again, I agree -- we live in a society that defines certain standards, certain expectations, etc. Since we live in such a society, we are subject to it's norms. I am just trying to say that sex and losing one's virginity, when abstracted away from everything, doesn't have any hugely generalizable qualities other than being able to check a block "been there, done that" (pun intended). That is all -- I'm not trying to discredit how it affected you, or anyone else.

Sim

PS: sorry for what might be overanalysis...that's what a degree in Behavioral Science and getting an MA in analytic philosophy will do to you...wicked stuff, man.

PPS: If you wanna know why it made me feel worse, search for threads with my handle. I asked TFPers for all sorts of related advice. I will say that a lot of my insecurity is, in fact, due to cultural pressure; however, this doesn't change my stance above...it just indicates that I'm rather weaker than I would like to be or think I should be.

iblade

I can certainly sense the need for rationalization here... Anyways I agree with what you said too. Seems to me you have a pretty logical and rational way of thinking and I like to talk with people like you.

Anyways, if anyone wants to share how losing his virginity changed him (or not), please do.

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cybersharp

That is so absolutly correct in my opinion..

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denton

I can respect that, you probably have a better sense of self worth than I did at the time. My self-esteem in my younger years was pitifully low, I believed everything people told me, and needed approval. It has grown to a higher level over the years, as I discovered that I'm not the worthless piece of crap someone told me I was.

That being said-- if I had to redo it, I would not have sex with the tramp for validation, I would screw her for something fun to do.

match000

Well, glad to hear that your self-esteem is much higher now. I still wouldn't do her, if she is as unattractive to you as you say she is.