past relationships:the backlash...your opinions please - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

maleficent · 05-03-2005, 09:53 AM

you draw the line where it affects your feelings. No one has the right to make you feel bad for anything you have done. If a person claims to love you, they accept your past. They don't necessarily have to like it, but they have to accept it because it's part of what made you the person you are. Under no condition shoudl they ever be allowed to throw your past in your face, that's called not fighting fair.

Squishor · 05-03-2005, 10:05 AM

Well that's hard when he keeps showing signs of progress and then slips back. He's got you on a string.

You could show him this thread, you know, it's not out of the question.

Where I draw the line is when I stop feeling respected for who I am. I demand respect. Yes, I've had sex with a lot of men, and that doesn't make me a bad person or any lesser of a person - why should it? If someone has a problem with that, they are not the guy for me. Relationships aren't perfect, and my boyfriend doesn't always do and say things that make me feel great but I do always know that he respects me.

spincycle0 · 05-03-2005, 11:29 AM

this guy sounds like a real ass. Move on and find someone who likes you for what you are and doesnt judge you.

ontheroad · 05-03-2005, 08:35 PM

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lindseylatch · 05-03-2005, 09:04 PM

This is an abusive relationship. He is emotionally abusing you. I'm sure we've all heard the story of the woman who's man beats her up every week, but he "really really loves her" cause he apologizes and brings her flowers the next day. Well, that's basically what he's doing. He talks down to you, criticizes you, then buys you expensive things (like the guitar).
Please, please, please, please get some help, preferably from someone who's used to dealing with this kind of thing, like a women's center or a social worker. Just because he's not hitting you, doesn't mean it isn't abuse.

Quote:

Emotional abuse includes screaming, threatening, constant criticism, threatening suicide, shunning, adultery, harrassment or stalking.

[emphasis mine]
Edit: Quote came from here:http://incestabuse.about.com/cs/dome...omestabuse.htm

abaya · 05-03-2005, 09:17 PM

^ lindsey, thanks for that quote. It makes it very clear what I have thought for a while about my upbringing... my mom had quite serious emotional abuse issues (she works on them more now, but they are still there), with all of the above except for the last three, I guess.

The worst part is that I inherited so much of it, without even knowing... like the home was my amniotic sac and I couldn't help but absorb everything that came through my parents' system, for good or ill, since I was just a little kid most of the time. I have spent the last, oh, 5 years trying to get that shit out of my system and it STILL erupts in issues with my bf, who is incredibly patient and forgiving when I don't feel much like deserving it.

Annie, I'm certainly not excusing your bf's reactions b/c of his family (EVERYONE has the responsibility to become a more healthy person and recognize their weaknesses, and work on them)... but just saying, some things are so deep under the skin, and some habits so ingrained, that you will never be able to change him. He has to want to do that himself, and he has to take the initiative to go to counseling and try to change *because* he cares about himself, and because he wants to be a better person for your relationship. If he is not doing that, he is not worth your energy investment right now, because he is basically a black hole that will suck you dry without even realizing it, if you allow that to happen.

So, yes, at this point you ought to walk away. Sorry for the rambling, got a lot on my mind tonight obviously.

EDIT: Maybe this should go in the Coming Together thread... but let's keep in mind that the man is not always the bad guy. In my opinion (obviously based on my experience) women can be exceptionally good at emotional abuse, almost moreso because they are socialized in school to manipulate subtly to get their way with friends, instead of being unladylike and have physical fights, as guys do. So both men and women abuse... let's keep it equal opportunity here (wry smile).

ontheroad · 05-03-2005, 09:48 PM

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abaya · 05-03-2005, 11:11 PM

No, but realizing it IS a major step. If we had only addressed the OP and not looked at the underlying issue, we would not be a very good forum to post to, in my opinion. As you revealed more about the situation in the OP, we responded with more observations.

I did not mean to make you feel stupid. The answer may have become "obvious," but I think everyone here agrees that making the change is the most difficult thing we can imagine. Many of us have been in the same place as you, or we are there now. I do not think you are stupid, and neither does anyone else here as far as I know. We are here for you to help you make the change, if that is what you decide.

simivin · 05-24-2005, 11:13 PM

It's somewhat ironic to read this post because recently I've faced a similar situation...

I did make the mistake, I guess, of asking my girlfriend this past weekend how many people she had sex with. She said "Seven," "Including me?" "Not including you." I asked and I got the honest answer.

Why did I even want to know? Well, she started having sex at a very young age; I knew that and knew she had had sex with a number of people. Some of it is derived from the competitiveness, quite a bit of it was derived from the (pehaps false) belief that knowledge would be better than imagining/wondering myself. In the end, it was probably a number of factors.

And what happened afterwards? Honestly, it bothered me. The first few days I was preoccupied with it quite a bit-- trust me, I did not want to think about it, but perhaps there is a dispensation to think about things like that, personal things, filling in details that are left out -- imagining them -- etc.

For me, I think the greatest part of the problem is the dichotomy between her sexual experience (8 partners) and mine (she is my only partner). The difference in prior behavior raised all sorts of emotions and confusion for me, but while I might sometimes wish I was her first and only partner, I probably wish nearly (or just) as much that I had more partners -- not that I really want to have sex with anyone else, but so that sex would not be as much an emotional issue.

But that's not the entire the story. I truly love this girl -- we've known each other for more than seven years, fell out of touch, got back in touch, and have been dating for just over two months. Already I feel more comfortable with her than I have with anyone in a long time; she is my best friend and is so much fun to be around.

While the first few days may have bothered me significantly -- thinking about the number, or even just thinking about the conversation and her voice saying it -- I've been working to lessen it with time. That's ultimately what I want -- to know and confront those details rather than hide from them, taking it as a part of her, and letting any of the emotional turmoil and baggage dissipate as the days go by.

Honestly, I searched the TF a day or two ago and read what some people said in another thread. I already knew it, but it still helps reading it from others, from people who aren't caught up in emotions, who aren't thinking upsetting thoughts. That helped me some. Last night my GF and I were talking and I apologized for asking; not so much apologizing because of my feelings, but for her feelings and how it might have made her feel.

Another thing I've been doing is trying to keep things in perspective. Sure, she's had seven other partners while I've had no one else, but I know I'm not entirely spotless. She seriously dated each of them but one (a two-night fling, I guess) and didn't even mess around with anyone besides those seven, whereas I've fooled around with a couple girls who I didn't even know but for a few days. So in that perspective, perhaps her morals and behavior are a bit sounder than my own. I just need to get used to that thought-process and cement the fact that she is a different person than myself -- and no worse just because we acted differently than each other.

What people have said -- prior partners made her the girl she has become, everything that happened is in the past, etc -- is all true. But as we all know, sometimes it's easier said than done, especially when trying to deal with the conflagration of emotions and thoughts. It truly doesn't matter whether it's 1, 8, 10, or 15 or more partners, but internalizing that can still be tough.

I told her, shortly after she told me the number, that I would be pissed at myself to let such a good thing go merely because of her past. And I mean that. She is too great a girl to let go because of my emotions, any jealously, any confusion. So, I'm doing the best I can to make an effort not to let it bother me, so that I can be the person she deserves. I'm not perfect, but I think time will help me get used to it, and I thank the people on this board for their honest and insightful comments.

I know that the thread has moved on to a little bit of a different direction, but I thought I'd offer my thoughts as I'm dealing with a similar issue but from a guy's side. Feel free to comment, as these are just my 2 cents...but I hope things work out for you annie.

Simivin

DJ Happy · 05-25-2005, 01:10 AM

I didn't see you say how old you are anywhere. Not that it's of major importance, but if you're only 18 and you've slept with 10 people already (I know you said between 7 and 11), it might upset him that you've been so active so young.

Having said that, it's still his problem. He asked you, you told him and now he can't handle hearing what he asked to hear. And it's never going to change either. He should either accept it and move on or bugger off and date a nun, but constantly throwing it back in your face is not going to achieve anything.

ontheroad · 05-25-2005, 10:48 AM

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lindseylatch · 05-25-2005, 01:28 PM

yay! Good for you Annie! I'm glad you've been able to take that step in your life, and may your future relationships be happy and stable ones.

ruggerp11 · 05-25-2005, 04:34 PM

Whoa, I haven't read all of the posts but this is a conversation I've had with a lot of people. I am doing ok too, and a good buddy of mine is obsessed with his 'number.' He will not sleep with girls (bj instead) just because of that. We argue because to me its not an issue, not at all. I've talked to my ex- about it and she thinks that it will become an issue for me when there is someone I really like who has a problem with it. I talked to a girl (well a few) that I know and they don't have a problem with it.

What I said to my ex and my buddy is that since I am a sexual person and sex/intimacy is very important to me that the girl I'm looking for will not have a problem with that. If she has a problem with how many people I have slept with she probably isn't the girl for me.

One of the girls I am talking to said that if you really love/like the person it shouldn't matter.

ok I've read it all now (ok mostly your last post)

WHOA

first of all congratulations on asserting yourself

second of all fuck him and fuck everything hes about. No man should be aggressive like that towards a woman for any reason other than saving his own life. you had every right to slap him and I hope you broke his fucking nose. Blowing his nose on your stuff is just juvenile and petty, shows what hes really about.

Third of all do not accept anyone ever that doesn't accept you as a whole. You are you and be proud of it, we're proud of you Its not something you can change, he (any he) can either accept it or you should find someone who likes all of you.

Good luck!

mandy · 05-26-2005, 01:05 AM

lovie? he aint got to know nothing.next time he asks you , tell him he should just be glad he's gettin' it now.you are with him now and not with any of those guys.and it's time for you to start playing hard ass now.i'm not saying that you should give him an ultimatum but just tell him that him posing these questions to you are irrelavant to YOUR relationship.let em ask you something?...

DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY GIRLS HE'S BEEN WITH?

im sure you dont care, right?(or do you?) but the thing is, just plain and simple, the two of you are together.and trust me, this can really cause some relationship severing if he doesnt stop with the questions.

just tell him "JUST BE GLAD YOU GETTIN' IT NOW!!! COS I AM!"

Demeter · 05-26-2005, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anniegetyergun

. i have never had an std, and nor have i rubbed my number into my mans face.
that scenario was 13-ish months ago, so i would assume that he liked what he learned about me, yet i still get punished. and to be totally fair, this boy has done some outrageously kind and loving things for me too, like he bought me a beautiful acoustic guitar for my birthday costing over $300, and driving all over the country with me.
if i see a guy in public that i even remotly know, he will grill me about him until he finds out who they are, and what role they have played in my life.

A) This is abuse. Your lover should not 'punish you' unless you're doing role-playing in the bedroom.
B) Any guy with an open wallet could 'show affection' for you. This is tantamount to buying the wife flowers the day after he hits her. I bet he rubs this in too, this 'expensive present'., telling you it must mean he loves you.

He has no right to comment on your past, you own it, not him. He is trying to put his insecurities on you. He is controlling who you talk to, where you go (if not now, you will see it coming soon).
My first husband was like this too. I got grilled on a regular basis about all my orevious encounters. If I refused to indulge, he would demand and demand, this going on for hours, until I found I was defending myself.
This was wrong, as I had done nothing to him. After we separarted, I saw it was a form of control. Now I refuse to divulge info to the men in my life on my past. I say I'm tested, and clean, and that better be good enough for him. I do no prying myself.

Everyone has a past. This includes him. It may include activities out of the bedroom, but no one is perfect.

Please, tell him this is unacceptable. He needs to work through this, and not take it out on you. This is his problem, I cannot repeat that enough.

tecoyah · 05-26-2005, 01:58 AM

You just dodged the bullet Annie....Look back at the entire situation, and learn from it. But, mostly, be glad you are free of this boy.

doncalypso · 05-27-2005, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tecoyah

You just dodged the bullet Annie....Look back at the entire situation, and learn from it. But, mostly, be glad you are free of this boy.

Cosign... I agree wholeheartedly with this assessment.

Cartuni · 05-28-2005, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simivin

I told her, shortly after she told me the number, that I would be pissed at myself to let such a good thing go merely because of her past.

This statement implies you think her past is “bad” – have you realized that?

I'm not being critical, just pointing out my impression. I’m for never asking the question, and white lies as plan B. Just stating a number is too simplistic, and delving into the details is an emotional minefield. I think it takes “honesty in a relationship” just a step too far. I believe sex should be between two loving people, focused on each other – and knowing the numbers and/or details (of past lovers) can’t help but bring a few others into the picture.

gh0ti · 05-28-2005, 06:47 PM

I’ve been the guy on the other side of this thread in the past. The girl I lost my virginity to was much more experienced then I was. We started out as good friends and the conversation came up and she gave me a number. Once we got together the conversation came up again and that number changed (lower actually). A couple of years later the number changed again (much higher this time). Yeah the number bothered me. But it bothered me much much more that she lied to me about it. Call it insecurity or what not but the bottom line is I don’t like being lied to. It turned into a big problem in my head and most of the 5 years we were together I didn’t really trust her. (I apparently had a good reason not to trust her since it came out that she slept with 2 of my so called “best friends” while we were together). Looking back I was very immature about the whole thing, but it turned out that my worst fears came true.

I don’t know. This experience has honestly made me use promiscuity and honesty as a gauge. I don’t want to be with someone who is going to lie to me. And I don’t want someone who is going to sleep around on me. I really wish I could change the way I think, but being human, I learn by experience. I simply won’t let myself be burned like that again. I have cut off a couple relationships that might have gone somewhere simply based on a little white lie early on or a high number of past sexual partners.

I would take the time and really think if you guys need to be with each other. Maybe your not the right one for him and vise versa. There is someone for everyone out there, be picky, very picky. Don’t sell your self short.

You don't need to pretend to be someone you are not to impress the person you want to be with. If s/he does not like you for who you are, then there is someone else right around the corner who will. You can be sure of that.

kangaeru · 05-29-2005, 01:32 PM

Annie,

Some guys are over possessive meatheads, but it sounds like yours is rare: an insecure, over possessive intellectual. If you want to make him see the light on this you are not going to convince him by talking about how he is hurting your feelings, because as far as he sees it, he is still right. All his logical patterns of thought are adding up, and for you to say, "please stop, that hurts my feelings" just proves to him that there is no sound argument against how he thinks. So, you've got to show him one.

First point you need address is quality, not quantity. He says because your number is between 7 and 11 that you're a skank, slut, etc. Have you explained to him that the guys you slept with aren't bad? That there is a difference between having sex, and making love? In today's age, women are realizing a a much greater degree of sexual independance. For him to claim that because you slept with over 7 guys, who sound to NOT to have been met-you-at-the-bar-never-saw-you-again one night stands, he has nothing to complain about.

His argument that people will repeat in the future what they have done in the past is complete bullshit. Sure, some people are idiots and make the same mistakes over and over. Most take an experience, learn from it, and mature. To say that because you slept with 7+ guys over the past 5 years, means that you would do it over the next 5 years, is a completely illogical argument. Has he ever thought that perhaps the fact that you slept with other guys with no real attachment has led you to the conclusion that there is more to great sex than just great sex--that to making amazing love to a person is better than having an amazing fuck with them?

Furthermore, you need to wake him the fuck up. He freaks out because you choose not to eat meat, thinking you're trying to impress a vegan friend? Ask him why he is so threatened by every single guy who lays eyes upon you. Ask him why he is so insecure with himself that he has to know everything about every guy you talk to. The fact of the matter is, he wants to be a control freak over this, and if he feels like hes not in charge of the situation and things are in your hands, he flips out. Well, part of relationships are trust. Why can't he trust that you're going to take care of the trust he's invested in you? Doesn't he realize how much you cherish that, and would never mishandle it? If he can't believe that, then how the hell can he say he's in love, and do all these things for you.

He needs to let go, plain and simple. The world is too big and people are too numerous for him to control every single guy that comes into your life, he's got to come to the realization that either he trusts you enough to be faithful to him, or he doesn't.

And just to play devil's advocate, what difference is there in sleeping with 3 people, or 7? They're both more than 1. If he says that it's because they were all steady relationships, ask him why that matters? It's called exploring your sexuality. There is a difference between looking to sex to make yourself feel fulfilled, and looking to explore who and what you're about when it comes to sex. Does he not see this distinction? How can he possibly argue that everyone who has had no strings attached sex with mature, still friends after the after partners, is a slut or whore?

He needs to get some self esteem in himself and who he is about, so he can stop worrying about a better guy coming along to steal his girl all the time. Ask him to take a hard look at himself, because these problems stem from his massive insecurity complex and need to control everything because of that.

Sit his bitch ass down homey.

good luck

ontheroad · 05-29-2005, 02:26 PM

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Ustwo · 05-29-2005, 05:41 PM

When a guy first starts to fall for you, the last thing he wants to know is how many people you had sex with or how.

Its a big mistake a lot of women make. Even early in the relationship its not a good thing to give that kind of info, as later it can still have an effect.

Live and learn and yes there are good white lies if they make a person feel better and don't hurt them.

maleficent · 05-29-2005, 05:50 PM

A discussion about sexual history is very very important, going into actual numbers and names, shouldn't be....

Ustwo · 05-29-2005, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

A discussion about sexual history is very very important, going into actual numbers and names, shouldn't be....

Depends on what you mean by history. I don't think anyone should feign being a virgin, but at the same time if you did a gang bang with your BF and his two best friends it might not be a good thing to bring up.

maleficent · 05-29-2005, 07:48 PM

Sexual history would mean diseases... If I was talking to a man, i would want to know if he'd been intimate with another man.. (It wouldn't matter, but it's something I would want to know)

anything that would amount to high risk behavior, is fair game.. and should be discussed.

The questions asked would be: have you ever had unprotected sex? Have you ever been tested for an STD? When was the last test?

ontheroad · 05-29-2005, 07:54 PM

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Ustwo · 05-30-2005, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

Sexual history would mean diseases... If I was talking to a man, i would want to know if he'd been intimate with another man.. (It wouldn't matter, but it's something I would want to know)

anything that would amount to high risk behavior, is fair game.. and should be discussed.

The questions asked would be: have you ever had unprotected sex? Have you ever been tested for an STD? When was the last test?

I'm not sure this is very effective in the long run.

If I am a hi-risk bisexual playboy odds are I won't tell you that because you might not have sex with me.

If I am a straight laced, never did anything high risk type, I'll tell you but it doesn't matter here because I'm STD free anyways.

So basicly I feel the people you want to avoid will lie about it anyways.

*Rhapsody* · 06-09-2005, 06:09 AM

honesty is the best policy. better to be stoned for truth, then accepted for lies.

c172g · 06-09-2005, 11:56 AM

Hmmm...sounds like many of you get off way too easy! My wife & I are both from the same small town. Her boyfriend of a bunch of years was a friend of mine, and he was the type to kiss & tell. I also knew two other guys she dated at different times.

I went out with one of her co-workers for years, she was a very sexual girl who loved to talk about it. So I know my wife has also heard lots of details of our little escapades.

In the end, both of us are toghether, we're happier than we were ever before, and whatcha gonna do? If you dwell on it, it will drive you crazy, so you remind yourself that the two of you would not be together if everything hadn't played out exactly the way it did. I wouldn't give her up for anything.

On top of that, we still live in the same town & run into each other's ex's regularly. I just smile when I see them knowing I got the girl...

MSD · 06-09-2005, 04:10 PM

Since things appear to be improving, I don't feel too bad cracking jokes now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by anniegetyergun

ive heard it all; lets get married, i want to fill you with babies, i love you more than anyone iv'e ever been with. and all of those were sincere comments, from him to me.

"I want to fill you with babies," is quite possibly the best pickup line ever.

Janie · 06-09-2005, 04:48 PM

Annie, I'm glad you decided to end it. It's always nice to hear things are getting better, especially when it comes to situations like this. I've been there

Heh, had I realized there was a second page, I wouldn't have needed to edit this.

htemaj · 06-10-2005, 05:03 AM

am i the only guy who doesnt care about the number of guys my girlfriend would have?

i just find it wierd people would :/

skysooner · 06-10-2005, 07:34 AM

IMO, there is no such thing as truly unconditional love. It is fine to say that someone should love you for who you are unconditionally. This really only works if both people in the relationship are completely mature rational adults (which never happens as well all have our insecurities).

Instead a good relationship is based on how you treat each other and how you make each other feel. Tell me how long a relationship will survive if one person is loving unconditionally and the other person is treating the other badly (i.e. making them feel emotionally insecure). A good relationship depends on each person doing the little things that make the other feel better. This sounds so easy but can be very, very difficult. The reason? People don't communicate with each other.

You are talking to him. He is either not hearing you or choosing to ignore it. It sounds to me like he has a big insecurity problem. Getting cheated on could be a good reason for that. That being said, your history is what made you who you are. People don't magically grow up to be a complete person without having a history of good and bad experiences. His only concern with your number of partners should be if you cheated on previous boyfriends while in a serious relationship (which could indicate a pattern of conduct that would stress him out due to his previous experience). If you just had the normal partners that everyone has (some long-term, maybe some very short-term) then what is his problem?

Sure there are girls that are so insecure about themselves that they will sleep with anyone around. Usually they grow up, get secure with themselves and don't do it anymore. There are guys that are like that as well. They go out and sleep with any girl they can find to prove that they can do it. I was like that. I had infinitely more partners than you did prior to my 24th birthday when I seemed to finally grow up. My wife was a virgin, and I have still been her only partner. She has been my only partner since we met.

Do yourself a favor and discuss this with him seriously. He needs a wakeup call on how bad this is bothering you. If he won't change, you owe it to yourself to get out. As many others have pointed out, this has the feel of a potentially abusive, controlling relationship.

ontheroad · 06-11-2005, 04:06 AM

ttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt

maleficent · 06-11-2005, 06:01 AM

We dont flame here...

that's not what we're about.

You are a grown woman and are responsible for your own decisions...

Sometimes loving someone isn't enough though... Explaining it away by saying he'll get over it... the question I would ask is to him is how will he plan on getting over it?

Remember this is the man who:

Quote:

THEN!! he called me a whore/slut and i got sooo fucking pissed that i slapped him right on the face, and his nose started to bleed. then he freaked out, pulled my hair back and punched me in the leg and blew him nose on me....threw all of my stuff onto the road and blew his nose on my new coat that i bought in montreal. needless to say i was covered in blood in the middle of a busy street with a bloody sleeping bag/shows/ pillow thrown around the sidewalk.

That's love? Don't you think you deserve to be treated better than that? don't you deserve to be with a man who respects you as well as loves you? Calling you whore, and punching you is NOT love.

Cynthetiq · 06-11-2005, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anniegetyergun

hey hey update ya'll! so...i hadn't seen/spoke to him for about 2 weeks...then he called me a few days ago. i was really firm to him, being distant but rational. he told me that he still loves me, and that he wants to get back together. he said that jealousy is like a flu..it really sucks but he will get over it. he said its not something that can be just swept under the rug, and that things will get better. he didn't push me to get back together with him in any way, and we did have a long talk about his problems.

basically, he knows that how he was behaving was wrong...he explained why it was wrong and how he wishes he didn't feel that way. i still love him very much, so i thought that by agreeing to take things very slowly that there could be a chance for us. he is landscaping, so he works 13 hour days 6 days a week...so we still will have significant time apart.

i have a feeling that i should have just turned away and said fuck it...but if the relationship is slow and careful i do not see the harm. nothing could be more enticing to me than a healed relationship with him. flame me if you think i'm wrong, i can handle it.

ps-'i want to fill you up with babies' haha...a quote from kurt vonnegut 'slaughterhouse five'. amazing fucking dood.

Nice to see that you can show outsiders how you can rationalize his behavior, especially with assitance from him.

The person was abusive to you. You decide if that's acceptable to you, not me not anyone else on this forum. While I will help people as best as I can in just about any situation they get themselves into, there's sometimes when the person "Does it Their way" I have to just shake my head, and keep walking.

anti fishstick · 06-11-2005, 07:39 AM

well annie, prepare for more drama.....

this guy will not change. i've been in a slightly similar situation as you.. he was abusive emotionally and we always would break up and then get back together. i think this happened a total of three times and spanned a 10 month period (WAY too long, in my opinion).

I think you have a heart, and you take him back because you want things to work out, and want to believe that they can. a few questions for you:

Do you love him?
Are you satisfied with your relationship?
Are you more concerned with your relationship or the *ideal* of a good relationship?
Are you more concerned with your boyfriend or the *ideal* of a good boyfriend?

what I mean about ideals is: are you more concerned with ideals of what you think a good relationship/boyfriend is or the actual reality?

when I was in my relationship, I found that I was fooling myself way too much, and I would try to rationalize his behaviour to the point where it would damage my self esteem and I felt like I *should* be punished or that things *were* my fault. but I held on to him anyway because I became attached and the idea of being in a good relationship I so badly wanted made me think I could just try to work things out and it would change..

he may realize his behaviors, but does he *want* to do anything about it? is he willing to change? simply stating what he did wrong isn't an incentive.

learn to be empowered by saying no.

that's it.

simivin · 08-05-2005, 09:05 AM

Well, I realize this thread has been buried for a while, but I wanted to write anyway. I posted above that I had had problems, etc, with my girlfriend's past and that it was getting better. To some extent, it has, but to some extent, it still perpetuates. Let me elaborate.

We went on vacation for about a month this summer, which was overall a great experience, with some minor roadbumps. We had a couple conversations about her history, and she was trying to make it accessible to me, both of us thinking that the less questions/imaginings/anxiety I had, the easier it would be to deal with and the sooner it would go away. It helped, but it wasn't a wave of a magic wand. After some of these conversations, I tried not to bring it up anymore, but we had some difficult conversations later on (sometimes initiated by her asking what I was thinking, etc). A couple weeks ago, I was feeling pretty good, not thinking too much (even when meeting one of her past lovers). I left to take care of some things before classes start this fall, and unfortunately, my thinking has gotten worse again.

I know and can admit that I think WAY too much and shouldn't be concerned about any of the things I am. I know I shouldn't ruminate so much; I know I shouldn't be concerned about her past, because she is with me now. The rationale side of me knows, but the emotional/pensive side of me doesn't really let me relax, and it stresses me out. I mean, it can range from her showing me something that she probably learned from one of her past lovers. Or it can be a comment she made ("sloppy seconds" or something) that I unfortunately tie back to her ("sloppy eighths") that just creates more anxiety for me. Or I'll think about other girls that I wished I had had sex with, so I wouldn't be thinking so much about my girlfriend's history now -- so that I would have the experience, or be on a similar plain and could just relax and enjoy the relationship.

I know it's stupid -- you don't need to flame me for that. But I keep stressing myself out, and I know that if I just stopped thinking, that I would enjoy things -- the relationship and life -- tremendously. I just think far too much and I want to stop. I've talked with my mom about it to some extent, and I've considered going to a counseling center or something at the university, but I don't know. And I don't particularly want to talk to my gf, because I don't want to hurt her anymore or have any difficult conversations.

I've thought that some of this is due to us being apart for the first time in about 2.5 months; or not having enough to do and dwelling on things; or not working out enough and staying in as good a shape as I want; or the big transition from my undergrad to grad school; or rushing into the relatinoship quickly, or having sex too quickly; or uncertainty about the exclusivity or long-term nature of our relationship; uncertainty about other girls I've had questions about, etc. I certainly think that if I would just settle my mind down, that I would be able to marry this girl, because she is a phenomenal person, but this anxiety makes me question lots of things. I've given her a key to my apartment, she's looking to buy a car to come visit me sometimes, so the stakes seem higher.

Should I consider breaking off the relationship? I don't want to risk hurting her anymore by my own problems, and while I want to be there for her and make her happy, I'm not certain that I am making myself happy right now due to my over-thinking. Or should I just wait, give it more time, and chalk it up to making a mistake about asking too many personal/sexual details too early on and count on time to get past it?

Advice on this would be greatly appreciated, because frankly, I'm tired of myself and my thinking right now. Thanks...

Simivin

PS: If you feel the need to flame me, fine, go ahead. But I agree with everyone on here that it is my fault and not hers; I'm just looking for things that I can do. Thanks.

astrahl · 08-05-2005, 09:18 AM

What is it about her sexual history that bothers you so much? The number? The type of people? Do you think she compares you to others? I think the most important thing is figuring out WHAT about it bothers you.
Consider how you would feel if she were as bothered by your history. What would you say to her? How would you rationalize the situation to her?

I've put my husband in the opposite position - he is my first and only. I've asked him how that position makes him feel and he has said that he wonders about my naive sexual nature. Don't get me wrong. I love trying things and I am a very sexual person, but he wonders what I would have been like with a few notches on my belt. As for my feelings as only having had one man - I regret it to the depth of my core. But I digress, this isn't about me...

...figure out why you are bothered. Maybe you need reassurance from her or maybe you just need to reason yourself through it. Keep us posted. I'm very interested in your thoughts about it.

simivin · 08-05-2005, 09:59 AM

Astrahl, thanks for the quick reply. In a nutshell...well, it is too conglomerated to fit in a nutshell because there are so many things/emotions that I have tied into it and associated it with. But here are some of the things that are going through my head, in no particular order.

I think about the number of people she has slept with and what they did -- sometimes things her and I do make me think about her doing things with them, sometimes far too explicitly for comfort, if that makes sense. I think about her thinking about her other lovers, wondering what kind of context it is in, etc. I think about her being younger and me being older, yet a reverse of sexual experience; part of me feels like my role is backwards since I was the virgin and she was not. I've often thought about the opportunities I had missed in the past (yet at the time those were decisions I made, I realize that), opportunities that 1) would have maybe prevented me from being so anxious and neurotic like I am now 2) would have given me a better perspective on things and 3) would have given me more sexual experiences (note: she said, when we first were discussing this months ago, that it was ok to have sex with someone else, to get that experience [just not to tell her] or we could do a threesome. However, I'm not entirely comfortable with either of those options, and the first one is too close to cheating for comfort). Thinking about missed opportunities leads me to thinking about other girls I know, and if things would have worked out with them, and if this is the best thing for me, etc. Or wondering what it would have been like to share my virginity with another virgin.

Another aspect of this that -- perhaps -- is unique, is that I knew her 7 years ago. We liked each other then, but it had trailed off because I didn't write her again or call her again when I moved away. So I feel that if I had done things differently in the past, that it would have worked out better now -- either she wouldn't have had sex with so many people or we would have been each others first. And the way she's made it sound, she didn't even really understand the importance of sex and such until after she had lost her virginity (being in jr high and not having a lot of guidance from parents), so I wished I could have taken care of her, or that her parents were there for her, or that her bf at the time wouldn't have wanted it...etc. So I see it as me & her...then this time in between...then me & her again. And she gives me so much -- "I have given you everything" -- and I don't feel like I'm reciprocating well enough, or that it's too easy so I'm getting bored...?

And then the other things: me graduating undergrad...going somewhere new...feeling more confident around girls as of the past year or two...thinking I want a long-term, marriage oriented relationship, but not sure because of the last point. Thinking I rushed into an exclusive relationship when I shouldn't have; rushing into sex too fast when I shouldn't have. Asking numbers and history when I thought I was comfortable with it, only to find that I wished I hadn't, but can't forget.

As for thought-experiments in reverse, I have tried over and over, hoping that I could understand the perspective well enough that I wouldn't overthink anymore. Unfortunately, it hasn't helped completely and I still think. And the rational things that people have mentioned here -- I understand and I agree (in response to the one poster who quoted my earlier post) -- but it's hard to think rationally about something that I have become so emotional about.

We've talked, like I said, but they have been so emotional for both of us that I hate doing that to her. And I would like to think reasoning would help (ironically, I am getting an MA in philosophy), but that's just the problem: I continually reason and think. Perhaps it is just being away from her that is making me think so much, but I did it -- albeit to a lesser extent -- when she was around, too.

I've noticed some things about myself, however. First, with sexual relationship: I've had three relationships that have been sexually intimate (if not sex) probably too fast and the other two I ultimately ended after about a month or less, at least one of which after thinking a lot about two. Second, when I'm not busy, I get bored and think too much (different topics in the past, however).

So, whew. That's a fair portion of what has been going through my head, at various times. And I try to break my trains of thought, but more often than not, I just end up thinking about it at a later time, often in the same day. Like you, Astrahl, I'm a very sexual person, too, so maybe that's why I think too much about so much...?

Well, as neurotic as that is, there you go. Thanks,

Simivin

05-03-2005, 09:53 AM	#41 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	you draw the line where it affects your feelings. No one has the right to make you feel bad for anything you have done. If a person claims to love you, they accept your past. They don't necessarily have to like it, but they have to accept it because it's part of what made you the person you are. Under no condition shoudl they ever be allowed to throw your past in your face, that's called not fighting fair. __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

05-03-2005, 08:35 PM	#44 (permalink)
ontheroad Upright Location: wherever i feel alive	nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn __________________ under the spreading chestnut tree, i sold you and you sold me Last edited by ontheroad; 12-13-2006 at 08:00 PM..

05-03-2005, 09:17 PM	#46 (permalink)
abaya Location: Iceland	^ lindsey, thanks for that quote. It makes it very clear what I have thought for a while about my upbringing... my mom had quite serious emotional abuse issues (she works on them more now, but they are still there), with all of the above except for the last three, I guess. The worst part is that I inherited so much of it, without even knowing... like the home was my amniotic sac and I couldn't help but absorb everything that came through my parents' system, for good or ill, since I was just a little kid most of the time. I have spent the last, oh, 5 years trying to get that shit out of my system and it STILL erupts in issues with my bf, who is incredibly patient and forgiving when I don't feel much like deserving it. Annie, I'm certainly not excusing your bf's reactions b/c of his family (EVERYONE has the responsibility to become a more healthy person and recognize their weaknesses, and work on them)... but just saying, some things are so deep under the skin, and some habits so ingrained, that you will never be able to change him. He has to want to do that himself, and he has to take the initiative to go to counseling and try to change because he cares about himself, and because he wants to be a better person for your relationship. If he is not doing that, he is not worth your energy investment right now, because he is basically a black hole that will suck you dry without even realizing it, if you allow that to happen. So, yes, at this point you ought to walk away. Sorry for the rambling, got a lot on my mind tonight obviously. EDIT: Maybe this should go in the Coming Together thread... but let's keep in mind that the man is not always the bad guy. In my opinion (obviously based on my experience) women can be exceptionally good at emotional abuse, almost moreso because they are socialized in school to manipulate subtly to get their way with friends, instead of being unladylike and have physical fights, as guys do. So both men and women abuse... let's keep it equal opportunity here (wry smile). __________________ And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran Last edited by abaya; 05-03-2005 at 09:25 PM..

05-03-2005, 09:48 PM	#47 (permalink)
ontheroad Upright Location: wherever i feel alive	nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn __________________ under the spreading chestnut tree, i sold you and you sold me Last edited by ontheroad; 12-13-2006 at 08:00 PM..

05-03-2005, 11:11 PM	#48 (permalink)
abaya Location: Iceland	No, but realizing it IS a major step. If we had only addressed the OP and not looked at the underlying issue, we would not be a very good forum to post to, in my opinion. As you revealed more about the situation in the OP, we responded with more observations. I did not mean to make you feel stupid. The answer may have become "obvious," but I think everyone here agrees that making the change is the most difficult thing we can imagine. Many of us have been in the same place as you, or we are there now. I do not think you are stupid, and neither does anyone else here as far as I know. We are here for you to help you make the change, if that is what you decide. __________________ And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran

05-03-2005, 10:05 AM	#42 (permalink)
Squishor Frontal Lobe Location: California	Well that's hard when he keeps showing signs of progress and then slips back. He's got you on a string. You could show him this thread, you know, it's not out of the question. Where I draw the line is when I stop feeling respected for who I am. I demand respect. Yes, I've had sex with a lot of men, and that doesn't make me a bad person or any lesser of a person - why should it? If someone has a problem with that, they are not the guy for me. Relationships aren't perfect, and my boyfriend doesn't always do and say things that make me feel great but I do always know that he respects me.

05-03-2005, 11:29 AM	#43 (permalink)
spincycle0 Upright	this guy sounds like a real ass. Move on and find someone who likes you for what you are and doesnt judge you.

05-24-2005, 11:13 PM	#49 (permalink)
simivin Banned	It's somewhat ironic to read this post because recently I've faced a similar situation... I did make the mistake, I guess, of asking my girlfriend this past weekend how many people she had sex with. She said "Seven," "Including me?" "Not including you." I asked and I got the honest answer. Why did I even want to know? Well, she started having sex at a very young age; I knew that and knew she had had sex with a number of people. Some of it is derived from the competitiveness, quite a bit of it was derived from the (pehaps false) belief that knowledge would be better than imagining/wondering myself. In the end, it was probably a number of factors. And what happened afterwards? Honestly, it bothered me. The first few days I was preoccupied with it quite a bit-- trust me, I did not want to think about it, but perhaps there is a dispensation to think about things like that, personal things, filling in details that are left out -- imagining them -- etc. For me, I think the greatest part of the problem is the dichotomy between her sexual experience (8 partners) and mine (she is my only partner). The difference in prior behavior raised all sorts of emotions and confusion for me, but while I might sometimes wish I was her first and only partner, I probably wish nearly (or just) as much that I had more partners -- not that I really want to have sex with anyone else, but so that sex would not be as much an emotional issue. But that's not the entire the story. I truly love this girl -- we've known each other for more than seven years, fell out of touch, got back in touch, and have been dating for just over two months. Already I feel more comfortable with her than I have with anyone in a long time; she is my best friend and is so much fun to be around. While the first few days may have bothered me significantly -- thinking about the number, or even just thinking about the conversation and her voice saying it -- I've been working to lessen it with time. That's ultimately what I want -- to know and confront those details rather than hide from them, taking it as a part of her, and letting any of the emotional turmoil and baggage dissipate as the days go by. Honestly, I searched the TF a day or two ago and read what some people said in another thread. I already knew it, but it still helps reading it from others, from people who aren't caught up in emotions, who aren't thinking upsetting thoughts. That helped me some. Last night my GF and I were talking and I apologized for asking; not so much apologizing because of my feelings, but for her feelings and how it might have made her feel. Another thing I've been doing is trying to keep things in perspective. Sure, she's had seven other partners while I've had no one else, but I know I'm not entirely spotless. She seriously dated each of them but one (a two-night fling, I guess) and didn't even mess around with anyone besides those seven, whereas I've fooled around with a couple girls who I didn't even know but for a few days. So in that perspective, perhaps her morals and behavior are a bit sounder than my own. I just need to get used to that thought-process and cement the fact that she is a different person than myself -- and no worse just because we acted differently than each other. What people have said -- prior partners made her the girl she has become, everything that happened is in the past, etc -- is all true. But as we all know, sometimes it's easier said than done, especially when trying to deal with the conflagration of emotions and thoughts. It truly doesn't matter whether it's 1, 8, 10, or 15 or more partners, but internalizing that can still be tough. I told her, shortly after she told me the number, that I would be pissed at myself to let such a good thing go merely because of her past. And I mean that. She is too great a girl to let go because of my emotions, any jealously, any confusion. So, I'm doing the best I can to make an effort not to let it bother me, so that I can be the person she deserves. I'm not perfect, but I think time will help me get used to it, and I thank the people on this board for their honest and insightful comments. I know that the thread has moved on to a little bit of a different direction, but I thought I'd offer my thoughts as I'm dealing with a similar issue but from a guy's side. Feel free to comment, as these are just my 2 cents...but I hope things work out for you annie. Simivin

05-25-2005, 01:10 AM	#50 (permalink)
DJ Happy Psycho	I didn't see you say how old you are anywhere. Not that it's of major importance, but if you're only 18 and you've slept with 10 people already (I know you said between 7 and 11), it might upset him that you've been so active so young. Having said that, it's still his problem. He asked you, you told him and now he can't handle hearing what he asked to hear. And it's never going to change either. He should either accept it and move on or bugger off and date a nun, but constantly throwing it back in your face is not going to achieve anything.

05-25-2005, 10:48 AM	#51 (permalink)
ontheroad Upright Location: wherever i feel alive	;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; __________________ under the spreading chestnut tree, i sold you and you sold me Last edited by ontheroad; 12-13-2006 at 08:00 PM..

05-25-2005, 01:28 PM	#52 (permalink)
lindseylatch Addict Location: Seattle, WA	yay! Good for you Annie! I'm glad you've been able to take that step in your life, and may your future relationships be happy and stable ones. __________________ "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities" "If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him." "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong." -Voltaire

05-25-2005, 04:34 PM	#53 (permalink)
ruggerp11 Cautiously soaring Location: exploring my new home in SF	Whoa, I haven't read all of the posts but this is a conversation I've had with a lot of people. I am doing ok too, and a good buddy of mine is obsessed with his 'number.' He will not sleep with girls (bj instead) just because of that. We argue because to me its not an issue, not at all. I've talked to my ex- about it and she thinks that it will become an issue for me when there is someone I really like who has a problem with it. I talked to a girl (well a few) that I know and they don't have a problem with it. What I said to my ex and my buddy is that since I am a sexual person and sex/intimacy is very important to me that the girl I'm looking for will not have a problem with that. If she has a problem with how many people I have slept with she probably isn't the girl for me. One of the girls I am talking to said that if you really love/like the person it shouldn't matter. ok I've read it all now (ok mostly your last post) WHOA first of all congratulations on asserting yourself second of all fuck him and fuck everything hes about. No man should be aggressive like that towards a woman for any reason other than saving his own life. you had every right to slap him and I hope you broke his fucking nose. Blowing his nose on your stuff is just juvenile and petty, shows what hes really about. Third of all do not accept anyone ever that doesn't accept you as a whole. You are you and be proud of it, we're proud of you Its not something you can change, he (any he) can either accept it or you should find someone who likes all of you. Good luck! __________________ Patriotism means being loyal to your country all the time and to its government when it deserves it. --Mark Twain Do What makes you happy --Me BUT! "Happiness is the absence of the striving for happiness" - Chuang-Tzu Last edited by ruggerp11; 05-25-2005 at 04:52 PM..

05-26-2005, 01:05 AM	#54 (permalink)
mandy Addict Location: Port Elizabeth, South Africa	lovie? he aint got to know nothing.next time he asks you , tell him he should just be glad he's gettin' it now.you are with him now and not with any of those guys.and it's time for you to start playing hard ass now.i'm not saying that you should give him an ultimatum but just tell him that him posing these questions to you are irrelavant to YOUR relationship.let em ask you something?... DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY GIRLS HE'S BEEN WITH? im sure you dont care, right?(or do you?) but the thing is, just plain and simple, the two of you are together.and trust me, this can really cause some relationship severing if he doesnt stop with the questions. just tell him "JUST BE GLAD YOU GETTIN' IT NOW!!! COS I AM!"

05-26-2005, 01:58 AM	#56 (permalink)
tecoyah Illusionary	You just dodged the bullet Annie....Look back at the entire situation, and learn from it. But, mostly, be glad you are free of this boy. __________________ Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

05-28-2005, 06:47 PM	#59 (permalink)
gh0ti Crazy	I’ve been the guy on the other side of this thread in the past. The girl I lost my virginity to was much more experienced then I was. We started out as good friends and the conversation came up and she gave me a number. Once we got together the conversation came up again and that number changed (lower actually). A couple of years later the number changed again (much higher this time). Yeah the number bothered me. But it bothered me much much more that she lied to me about it. Call it insecurity or what not but the bottom line is I don’t like being lied to. It turned into a big problem in my head and most of the 5 years we were together I didn’t really trust her. (I apparently had a good reason not to trust her since it came out that she slept with 2 of my so called “best friends” while we were together). Looking back I was very immature about the whole thing, but it turned out that my worst fears came true. I don’t know. This experience has honestly made me use promiscuity and honesty as a gauge. I don’t want to be with someone who is going to lie to me. And I don’t want someone who is going to sleep around on me. I really wish I could change the way I think, but being human, I learn by experience. I simply won’t let myself be burned like that again. I have cut off a couple relationships that might have gone somewhere simply based on a little white lie early on or a high number of past sexual partners. I would take the time and really think if you guys need to be with each other. Maybe your not the right one for him and vise versa. There is someone for everyone out there, be picky, very picky. Don’t sell your self short. You don't need to pretend to be someone you are not to impress the person you want to be with. If s/he does not like you for who you are, then there is someone else right around the corner who will. You can be sure of that. __________________ I ain't often right but I've never been wrong It seldom turns out the way it does in the song Once in a while you get shown the light In the strangest of places if you look at it right

05-29-2005, 01:32 PM	#60 (permalink)
kangaeru Crazy Location: on the road to where I want to be...	Annie, Some guys are over possessive meatheads, but it sounds like yours is rare: an insecure, over possessive intellectual. If you want to make him see the light on this you are not going to convince him by talking about how he is hurting your feelings, because as far as he sees it, he is still right. All his logical patterns of thought are adding up, and for you to say, "please stop, that hurts my feelings" just proves to him that there is no sound argument against how he thinks. So, you've got to show him one. First point you need address is quality, not quantity. He says because your number is between 7 and 11 that you're a skank, slut, etc. Have you explained to him that the guys you slept with aren't bad? That there is a difference between having sex, and making love? In today's age, women are realizing a a much greater degree of sexual independance. For him to claim that because you slept with over 7 guys, who sound to NOT to have been met-you-at-the-bar-never-saw-you-again one night stands, he has nothing to complain about. His argument that people will repeat in the future what they have done in the past is complete bullshit. Sure, some people are idiots and make the same mistakes over and over. Most take an experience, learn from it, and mature. To say that because you slept with 7+ guys over the past 5 years, means that you would do it over the next 5 years, is a completely illogical argument. Has he ever thought that perhaps the fact that you slept with other guys with no real attachment has led you to the conclusion that there is more to great sex than just great sex--that to making amazing love to a person is better than having an amazing fuck with them? Furthermore, you need to wake him the fuck up. He freaks out because you choose not to eat meat, thinking you're trying to impress a vegan friend? Ask him why he is so threatened by every single guy who lays eyes upon you. Ask him why he is so insecure with himself that he has to know everything about every guy you talk to. The fact of the matter is, he wants to be a control freak over this, and if he feels like hes not in charge of the situation and things are in your hands, he flips out. Well, part of relationships are trust. Why can't he trust that you're going to take care of the trust he's invested in you? Doesn't he realize how much you cherish that, and would never mishandle it? If he can't believe that, then how the hell can he say he's in love, and do all these things for you. He needs to let go, plain and simple. The world is too big and people are too numerous for him to control every single guy that comes into your life, he's got to come to the realization that either he trusts you enough to be faithful to him, or he doesn't. And just to play devil's advocate, what difference is there in sleeping with 3 people, or 7? They're both more than 1. If he says that it's because they were all steady relationships, ask him why that matters? It's called exploring your sexuality. There is a difference between looking to sex to make yourself feel fulfilled, and looking to explore who and what you're about when it comes to sex. Does he not see this distinction? How can he possibly argue that everyone who has had no strings attached sex with mature, still friends after the after partners, is a slut or whore? He needs to get some self esteem in himself and who he is about, so he can stop worrying about a better guy coming along to steal his girl all the time. Ask him to take a hard look at himself, because these problems stem from his massive insecurity complex and need to control everything because of that. Sit his bitch ass down homey. good luck

05-29-2005, 02:26 PM	#61 (permalink)
ontheroad Upright Location: wherever i feel alive	;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; __________________ under the spreading chestnut tree, i sold you and you sold me Last edited by ontheroad; 12-13-2006 at 08:01 PM..

05-29-2005, 05:41 PM	#62 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	When a guy first starts to fall for you, the last thing he wants to know is how many people you had sex with or how. Its a big mistake a lot of women make. Even early in the relationship its not a good thing to give that kind of info, as later it can still have an effect. Live and learn and yes there are good white lies if they make a person feel better and don't hurt them. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

05-29-2005, 05:50 PM	#63 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	A discussion about sexual history is very very important, going into actual numbers and names, shouldn't be.... __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

05-29-2005, 07:48 PM	#65 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	Sexual history would mean diseases... If I was talking to a man, i would want to know if he'd been intimate with another man.. (It wouldn't matter, but it's something I would want to know) anything that would amount to high risk behavior, is fair game.. and should be discussed. The questions asked would be: have you ever had unprotected sex? Have you ever been tested for an STD? When was the last test? __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

05-29-2005, 07:54 PM	#66 (permalink)
ontheroad Upright Location: wherever i feel alive	ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo __________________ under the spreading chestnut tree, i sold you and you sold me Last edited by ontheroad; 12-13-2006 at 08:01 PM..

06-09-2005, 06:09 AM	#68 (permalink)
Rhapsody Upright Location: Wild Wild West	honesty is the best policy. better to be stoned for truth, then accepted for lies.

06-09-2005, 11:56 AM	#69 (permalink)
c172g Crazy Location: Michigan	Hmmm...sounds like many of you get off way too easy! My wife & I are both from the same small town. Her boyfriend of a bunch of years was a friend of mine, and he was the type to kiss & tell. I also knew two other guys she dated at different times. I went out with one of her co-workers for years, she was a very sexual girl who loved to talk about it. So I know my wife has also heard lots of details of our little escapades. In the end, both of us are toghether, we're happier than we were ever before, and whatcha gonna do? If you dwell on it, it will drive you crazy, so you remind yourself that the two of you would not be together if everything hadn't played out exactly the way it did. I wouldn't give her up for anything. On top of that, we still live in the same town & run into each other's ex's regularly. I just smile when I see them knowing I got the girl...

06-09-2005, 04:48 PM	#71 (permalink)
Janie Insane Location: Greater Vancouver	Annie, I'm glad you decided to end it. It's always nice to hear things are getting better, especially when it comes to situations like this. I've been there Heh, had I realized there was a second page, I wouldn't have needed to edit this. __________________ cheers to the motherland Last edited by Janie; 06-09-2005 at 04:56 PM..

06-10-2005, 05:03 AM	#72 (permalink)
htemaj Upright	am i the only guy who doesnt care about the number of guys my girlfriend would have? i just find it wierd people would :/

06-10-2005, 07:34 AM	#73 (permalink)
skysooner Registered User Location: Oklahoma	IMO, there is no such thing as truly unconditional love. It is fine to say that someone should love you for who you are unconditionally. This really only works if both people in the relationship are completely mature rational adults (which never happens as well all have our insecurities). Instead a good relationship is based on how you treat each other and how you make each other feel. Tell me how long a relationship will survive if one person is loving unconditionally and the other person is treating the other badly (i.e. making them feel emotionally insecure). A good relationship depends on each person doing the little things that make the other feel better. This sounds so easy but can be very, very difficult. The reason? People don't communicate with each other. You are talking to him. He is either not hearing you or choosing to ignore it. It sounds to me like he has a big insecurity problem. Getting cheated on could be a good reason for that. That being said, your history is what made you who you are. People don't magically grow up to be a complete person without having a history of good and bad experiences. His only concern with your number of partners should be if you cheated on previous boyfriends while in a serious relationship (which could indicate a pattern of conduct that would stress him out due to his previous experience). If you just had the normal partners that everyone has (some long-term, maybe some very short-term) then what is his problem? Sure there are girls that are so insecure about themselves that they will sleep with anyone around. Usually they grow up, get secure with themselves and don't do it anymore. There are guys that are like that as well. They go out and sleep with any girl they can find to prove that they can do it. I was like that. I had infinitely more partners than you did prior to my 24th birthday when I seemed to finally grow up. My wife was a virgin, and I have still been her only partner. She has been my only partner since we met. Do yourself a favor and discuss this with him seriously. He needs a wakeup call on how bad this is bothering you. If he won't change, you owe it to yourself to get out. As many others have pointed out, this has the feel of a potentially abusive, controlling relationship.

06-11-2005, 04:06 AM	#74 (permalink)
ontheroad Upright Location: wherever i feel alive	ttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt __________________ under the spreading chestnut tree, i sold you and you sold me Last edited by ontheroad; 12-13-2006 at 08:02 PM..

06-11-2005, 07:39 AM	#77 (permalink)
anti fishstick Post-modernism meets Individualism AKA the Clash Location: oregon	well annie, prepare for more drama..... this guy will not change. i've been in a slightly similar situation as you.. he was abusive emotionally and we always would break up and then get back together. i think this happened a total of three times and spanned a 10 month period (WAY too long, in my opinion). I think you have a heart, and you take him back because you want things to work out, and want to believe that they can. a few questions for you: Do you love him? Are you satisfied with your relationship? Are you more concerned with your relationship or the ideal of a good relationship? Are you more concerned with your boyfriend or the ideal of a good boyfriend? what I mean about ideals is: are you more concerned with ideals of what you think a good relationship/boyfriend is or the actual reality? when I was in my relationship, I found that I was fooling myself way too much, and I would try to rationalize his behaviour to the point where it would damage my self esteem and I felt like I should be punished or that things were my fault. but I held on to him anyway because I became attached and the idea of being in a good relationship I so badly wanted made me think I could just try to work things out and it would change.. he may realize his behaviors, but does he want to do anything about it? is he willing to change? simply stating what he did wrong isn't an incentive. learn to be empowered by saying no. that's it. __________________ And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. ~Anais Nin

08-05-2005, 09:05 AM	#78 (permalink)
simivin Banned	Follow-up for me Well, I realize this thread has been buried for a while, but I wanted to write anyway. I posted above that I had had problems, etc, with my girlfriend's past and that it was getting better. To some extent, it has, but to some extent, it still perpetuates. Let me elaborate. We went on vacation for about a month this summer, which was overall a great experience, with some minor roadbumps. We had a couple conversations about her history, and she was trying to make it accessible to me, both of us thinking that the less questions/imaginings/anxiety I had, the easier it would be to deal with and the sooner it would go away. It helped, but it wasn't a wave of a magic wand. After some of these conversations, I tried not to bring it up anymore, but we had some difficult conversations later on (sometimes initiated by her asking what I was thinking, etc). A couple weeks ago, I was feeling pretty good, not thinking too much (even when meeting one of her past lovers). I left to take care of some things before classes start this fall, and unfortunately, my thinking has gotten worse again. I know and can admit that I think WAY too much and shouldn't be concerned about any of the things I am. I know I shouldn't ruminate so much; I know I shouldn't be concerned about her past, because she is with me now. The rationale side of me knows, but the emotional/pensive side of me doesn't really let me relax, and it stresses me out. I mean, it can range from her showing me something that she probably learned from one of her past lovers. Or it can be a comment she made ("sloppy seconds" or something) that I unfortunately tie back to her ("sloppy eighths") that just creates more anxiety for me. Or I'll think about other girls that I wished I had had sex with, so I wouldn't be thinking so much about my girlfriend's history now -- so that I would have the experience, or be on a similar plain and could just relax and enjoy the relationship. I know it's stupid -- you don't need to flame me for that. But I keep stressing myself out, and I know that if I just stopped thinking, that I would enjoy things -- the relationship and life -- tremendously. I just think far too much and I want to stop. I've talked with my mom about it to some extent, and I've considered going to a counseling center or something at the university, but I don't know. And I don't particularly want to talk to my gf, because I don't want to hurt her anymore or have any difficult conversations. I've thought that some of this is due to us being apart for the first time in about 2.5 months; or not having enough to do and dwelling on things; or not working out enough and staying in as good a shape as I want; or the big transition from my undergrad to grad school; or rushing into the relatinoship quickly, or having sex too quickly; or uncertainty about the exclusivity or long-term nature of our relationship; uncertainty about other girls I've had questions about, etc. I certainly think that if I would just settle my mind down, that I would be able to marry this girl, because she is a phenomenal person, but this anxiety makes me question lots of things. I've given her a key to my apartment, she's looking to buy a car to come visit me sometimes, so the stakes seem higher. Should I consider breaking off the relationship? I don't want to risk hurting her anymore by my own problems, and while I want to be there for her and make her happy, I'm not certain that I am making myself happy right now due to my over-thinking. Or should I just wait, give it more time, and chalk it up to making a mistake about asking too many personal/sexual details too early on and count on time to get past it? Advice on this would be greatly appreciated, because frankly, I'm tired of myself and my thinking right now. Thanks... Simivin PS: If you feel the need to flame me, fine, go ahead. But I agree with everyone on here that it is my fault and not hers; I'm just looking for things that I can do. Thanks.

08-05-2005, 09:18 AM	#79 (permalink)
astrahl Insane Location: You don't want to live here	What is it about her sexual history that bothers you so much? The number? The type of people? Do you think she compares you to others? I think the most important thing is figuring out WHAT about it bothers you. Consider how you would feel if she were as bothered by your history. What would you say to her? How would you rationalize the situation to her? I've put my husband in the opposite position - he is my first and only. I've asked him how that position makes him feel and he has said that he wonders about my naive sexual nature. Don't get me wrong. I love trying things and I am a very sexual person, but he wonders what I would have been like with a few notches on my belt. As for my feelings as only having had one man - I regret it to the depth of my core. But I digress, this isn't about me... ...figure out why you are bothered. Maybe you need reassurance from her or maybe you just need to reason yourself through it. Keep us posted. I'm very interested in your thoughts about it. __________________ Maybe it was over when she chucked me out the Rover at full speed. Maybe Maybe... ~a-Ha

08-05-2005, 09:59 AM	#80 (permalink)
simivin Banned	Astrahl, thanks for the quick reply. In a nutshell...well, it is too conglomerated to fit in a nutshell because there are so many things/emotions that I have tied into it and associated it with. But here are some of the things that are going through my head, in no particular order. I think about the number of people she has slept with and what they did -- sometimes things her and I do make me think about her doing things with them, sometimes far too explicitly for comfort, if that makes sense. I think about her thinking about her other lovers, wondering what kind of context it is in, etc. I think about her being younger and me being older, yet a reverse of sexual experience; part of me feels like my role is backwards since I was the virgin and she was not. I've often thought about the opportunities I had missed in the past (yet at the time those were decisions I made, I realize that), opportunities that 1) would have maybe prevented me from being so anxious and neurotic like I am now 2) would have given me a better perspective on things and 3) would have given me more sexual experiences (note: she said, when we first were discussing this months ago, that it was ok to have sex with someone else, to get that experience [just not to tell her] or we could do a threesome. However, I'm not entirely comfortable with either of those options, and the first one is too close to cheating for comfort). Thinking about missed opportunities leads me to thinking about other girls I know, and if things would have worked out with them, and if this is the best thing for me, etc. Or wondering what it would have been like to share my virginity with another virgin. Another aspect of this that -- perhaps -- is unique, is that I knew her 7 years ago. We liked each other then, but it had trailed off because I didn't write her again or call her again when I moved away. So I feel that if I had done things differently in the past, that it would have worked out better now -- either she wouldn't have had sex with so many people or we would have been each others first. And the way she's made it sound, she didn't even really understand the importance of sex and such until after she had lost her virginity (being in jr high and not having a lot of guidance from parents), so I wished I could have taken care of her, or that her parents were there for her, or that her bf at the time wouldn't have wanted it...etc. So I see it as me & her...then this time in between...then me & her again. And she gives me so much -- "I have given you everything" -- and I don't feel like I'm reciprocating well enough, or that it's too easy so I'm getting bored...? And then the other things: me graduating undergrad...going somewhere new...feeling more confident around girls as of the past year or two...thinking I want a long-term, marriage oriented relationship, but not sure because of the last point. Thinking I rushed into an exclusive relationship when I shouldn't have; rushing into sex too fast when I shouldn't have. Asking numbers and history when I thought I was comfortable with it, only to find that I wished I hadn't, but can't forget. As for thought-experiments in reverse, I have tried over and over, hoping that I could understand the perspective well enough that I wouldn't overthink anymore. Unfortunately, it hasn't helped completely and I still think. And the rational things that people have mentioned here -- I understand and I agree (in response to the one poster who quoted my earlier post) -- but it's hard to think rationally about something that I have become so emotional about. We've talked, like I said, but they have been so emotional for both of us that I hate doing that to her. And I would like to think reasoning would help (ironically, I am getting an MA in philosophy), but that's just the problem: I continually reason and think. Perhaps it is just being away from her that is making me think so much, but I did it -- albeit to a lesser extent -- when she was around, too. I've noticed some things about myself, however. First, with sexual relationship: I've had three relationships that have been sexually intimate (if not sex) probably too fast and the other two I ultimately ended after about a month or less, at least one of which after thinking a lot about two. Second, when I'm not busy, I get bored and think too much (different topics in the past, however). So, whew. That's a fair portion of what has been going through my head, at various times. And I try to break my trains of thought, but more often than not, I just end up thinking about it at a later time, often in the same day. Like you, Astrahl, I'm a very sexual person, too, so maybe that's why I think too much about so much...? Well, as neurotic as that is, there you go. Thanks, Simivin