Midnightskyline

Hi all, for the purposes of this post please ignore my other post, that is the *other* side of my relationship, lol. And please be patient, this one's a biggy

Well basically I wanted to ask advice on how to get my partner to ... ...participate in my fetish.

I can literally see you all rolling your eyes because this must've been asked a thousand times. I've trawled google, yahoo answers, other boards etc but this time i've decided to get stuck in because I like this forum and the intelligence within it.

Ok, so let me outline what my fetish involves. First, it is in no way weird, strange, kinky, etc, so apologies to the people who thought this thread was gonna be real dirty.

Second, it involves clothes. This is a little embarassing to admit but its certainly not the worst fetish i've read about, so at least I can take heart from that. Basically, my girlfriend dresses very well. This is one of the things I really like in her, she always makes sure she looks smart and presentable, but never over the top or trashy. The perfect woman, lol. In her wardrobe she has a LOT of clothes, most of which are nice. But my favourites are her shirts. She has maybe 15 shirts of all different types and colours etc, but they are my favourite. The bad part is, she never wears them anymore. Ever. She used to wear them to work and sometimes everyday, but now she never does. It hurts lol...

These are the object of my sexual fetish, and sometimes when she's out of the house i'll go and touch them, feel them and sometimes i'll wear them. I even bought her one out of the blue (with a bunch of flowers and a bottle of wine so it didn't appear strange! I was so worried she'd ask certain questions!!!).

The reason I need advice is because clearly, I have no right or will to ask her to change her dress sense because it's already perfect in my mind, apart from her never wearing them. Having said that, I'd love for her to incorporate them into our sex somehow. I'm not even sure how she could but all I know is that it would really add to our sex. I'm perfectly content with our sexual relationship but I think this would take it to the nth degree. So how to go about asking her/telling her?

Last week I *almost* told her, it was eating me up inside, all I could think about was her wearing these shirts, me taking photos of her, having sex whilst she wore them, etc. I simply *had* to tell her, right there and then. But I pussied out and only told her half the story. I told her that I had a fetish for clothes, which isn't strictly true. She simply said 'oh, right' and tried to change the subject. Grrrr, lol. I'd worked up the courage to say something (because let's face it, no matter how comfortable you are in a relationship, and how much you can talk about sex, it is embarassing and taboo does play it's part). She dismissed it! How dare she! *sarcasm*...

Anyone else experienced something similar?
How did you tell her/him?
How do you think I should ask without hurting her feelings or making her feel like she doesn't dress right?

Oh, and I just remembered a part of my fetish which is VERY strange....I like to find photos of women wearing shirts and photoshop my girlfriend's head onto them. Now you tell me that getting sexual gratification from THAT isn't weird!!!!!!!!

Strange Famous

I can only give my own advice.

Firstly, we all have different things we like. This isnt something that is really strange or offensive... it is something you ought to be embarassed about

I certainly have a nice feeling for certain clothes that a girl might wear... I havent ever tried any on, then again I am considerably bigger than any girl Ive ever dated, so Ive never had the possibility. For me, a certain style of skirt and stockings/tights is especially attractive to me, and I think the best thing is to tell your girl that you like it, or like her dressed that way.

I would just be really up front about it. You dont have to tell her exactly HOW much you like it, just make it clear your general approval... anyone likes the idea of being attractive to the person they are together with.

Midnightskyline

Thanks for the reply strange famous...

All that you have said is completely valid and sensible. I do all you say already, I give her regular compliments (not over the top though), and when she is wearing an outfit i particularly like I might emphasise it ...but the problem here is that I want to incorporate my desire into a sexual activity. The question is how...Telling her 'how' much I like it is exactly what I want to eventually achieve...

And I know what you mean about the skirt and stocking thing, that's pretty close to becoming a fetish for me also...

kramus

If I missed the main thrust of your OP I do apologize. I get the idea that you'd like to have sex with the missus while she wears a variety of blouses. I would say "I find your blouses actually very sexy, and would love to see you in a blouse tonight. Just your blouse. While I'm in you." Get her to leave it open down the front. Put your arms around her beneath the open blouse. Then you both are wearing it, so to speak, while having sex. I know I like the sight of an open top from time to time, or a vest, or one of those open weave scarves. The drape of cloth on a woman is a lovely thing.

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Poetry

This.

I mean, really, communicate it to her. You've been dating for how long? Do you want to go another year or three (or whatever) without ever indulging this desire? Don't be shy about it, don't beat around the bush. Just flat out tell her what you want, and be sexual about it. There's no reason to be embarassed about your "fetish"-- it's so minimal and so common.

Also, what is there to be afraid of? You know this girl. Is she going to laugh in your face? Break up with you for being a "dirty pervert"? Will she just say no? Will she set fire to those shirts and convert to another religion?

It's just shirts. Try looking up "glass-bottomed boat", "shrieking porpoise", or "ambushed paddington" and compare those activities to what you want to do.

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"You know what? Fuck the moon! He controls our water and our women. I've had enough!"

Strange Famous

well, if he wants to have it off with her while she's still wearing the blouse thats simply a matter of taking the rest of her clothes off but leaving that one (assuming she doesnt object of course)

Poetry

I agree with this. But, also, I mean... she's his girlfriend (or something). Shouldn't she want to please him? It's such a little thing, and she could have so much fun with it and add a lot of spice to their sex life if she was aware of his needs (and was willing to not be a truly horrific prude).

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"You know what? Fuck the moon! He controls our water and our women. I've had enough!"

Lindy

My boyfriend (I'm pretty sure) has a button fetish. He wanted to surprise me last fall, (birthday present) so he looked at the tag on one of my bras (I wear a 32D) and went to a shop where he looked at "blouses for a girl with a 32" bust." Which is not the same thing, lol. The fabric of reality is strained, shall we say. He bought me a couple of button up the front blouses and a Western style shirt with snaps. He loves to help unbutton them and take them off, but equally seems to love buttoning them back up. His breathing gives the game away, and at first, I think he was embarrassed. But I love pushing my breasts right up against him, and being kissed while he undoes the buttons.
So, as fetishes go, this is pretty innocuous.

Lindy

waitforsugar

If my partner said this to me, I would think that he was into something far less innocent than me wanting to wear a blouse while we had sex.

I don't really get how this is a big deal. Just explain how beautiful and sexy that you find her in them. Honey if this is the strangest fetish you've encountered you might need to get out more...or google the examples that Poetry mentioned. I once dated a guy with a snot fetish. I would have been thrilled to wear a blouse.

MSD

"Remember that [specific shirt] you have? You look really sexy in it and it turns me on a lot. Would you wear it for me?"

zenda

How would your girlfriend actually wearing those shirts compare with the Photoshopped version? Is the Photoshop thing transitional - just a way of representing stuff you'd actually prefer to happen in your relationship with her? Or does each of them have inate value? And what other stuff might you like to happen?

You're wondering how to ask her without making her feel hurt or wrong? The first thing I'd ask is how, specifically, you know that your asking her would make her feel hurt or wrong? For all we know, she might be cool about being asked, as long as you're direct and specific. Because at the moment, it you who seem bothered and 'wrong' about your wish; so bothered that you've packaged it to her in ways which WOULD and did make it uncomfortable to her. Look:

"I told her that I had a fetish for clothes, which isn't strictly true. She simply said 'oh, right' and tried to change the subject."

Go ahead and "de-wrongify it." in your own mind and feelings, so that next time, you will be in a mood of "There's that shirt you look great in Pleeaaase will you wear it!", rather than "I've Got This FETISHHHHHHHHH". Also, while you're at it, why not make a list of other stuff which might be in your mind that you'd like her and you to do together? I'm not just talking about sex, because you're now burning up to ask her some very productive stuff - itches ready for a-scratching more directly than ever before, for both of you, and let's hope she's got things to ask you, too.

So when you consider the possibility that many of your desires may be far more acceptable than you have been feeling, and a prime factor to be "What's Ok between the two of you" - which can best be found out by asking in direct ways, then you've got an opportunity right now to practice directness, and also to clean-up that misunderstanding: "Darling .. about the other day ... I don't know why I said 'clothes fetish' ... heck it's a .. 'YOU fetish' * is what I mean - for example, the way you DRESS ... WOW how come you look so good in stuff! And those shirts ... " ** Hang on ... this sounds familiar ... "those shirts ... I'd love to see you in those shirts"


I confess that I'm also silently shaking with laughter as I paint silly scenarios of your being damned for committing the Cardinal Sin of Shirting, or scenarios of myself getting arrested for interrupting loving couples with SWAT-style EVAC rescues of women's' teddy bears. "Ma'am, your bear is at risk, and will be returned after your man has gone. Don't thank me ... I'm just doing my job. And remember, folks: Please Look After This Bear".
I'm also laughing at when I was 15 ... my first kiss - I asked her, and my manner reminds me of yours with the shirt: I had the (for me = parentally trained) feeling of it being kind of Wrong, though rationally I knew it wasn't ... And I intended to say "Darling, may I kiss you" ... but it came out as "Darling, may I ... look I'm not some pervy sicko, OK? It's just that I would ... I like you a lot and I love holding your hand".
So I've got a lot of respect for you as you're tackling this head-on.

Take care


* Y'know ... I casually wrote 'YOU fetish', so's to diffuse 'fetish' away from 'clothes' and toward your link with HER. But it occurs to me I'd better check with you whether or to what extent 'YOU fetish' fits how you feel as you relate to her.

** A connection occured which is, IMO, more appropriate for that other thread: looking through her wardrobe is another example of 'looking through her stuff'. Is looking through her, or people's stuff a 'theme' for you? I'm not looking to judge, just to get clearer on your strong patterns of curiosity and what drives them.

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ZENDA

Midnightskyline

Thank you all for your inputs, they were/are noted.

Unfortunately they are all now moot points.

Time for an update. So a few days ago I read all your inputs and decided to tell her. This I did, at considerable difficulty. She took it well and I said 'no need to dwell on it now if you don't want to, but I'd like to talk about it a little after you've had some time to think'. All well and good, she agreed.

Last night we went out for a few drinks together and all day and the previous day I'd felt so liberated and relieved; I felt like a burden has been released from my shoulders. Great. That night, having had a few drinks and lost a significant amount of my inhibitions, I asked her 'would you dress up for me?'

She said 'yes I will, but don't bombard me with this'. Didn't really know how to react to that, but at least it was a yes, so I changed the subject and left it that for the time being.

All well and good right? Wrong. I'm writing this on my phone sat on the park having literally walked out of the house without saying I was going. Bit of back story: today I had nothing on the agenda so I thought I'd repay her for being receptive and accommodating, and not dismissing me out of hand. I told her I was going to clean the house. Fast forward an hour or two, and there I am on hands and knees scrubbing the toilet. She comes into the room: 'I'm clearing out my wardrobes, I'm sick of all of my old clothes. I'm throwing away all of my shirts, so you can pick one to keep'.

Whaaaat? How was I supposed to react to that? She said it in such a nasty 'I think you're a dirty perv but because I love you I'm letting you keep one, and you will be grateful for it' kind of way. My initial instinct was anger and maybe even a little bit of fear because I said 'fuck it just chuck them all' in an attempted flippant manner, and she duly did!

So now I have a choice. Walk home and forget it all happened, never mention it again and try to repress these feelings I have. Do I delete all my photos of her wearing shirts? Do I try to wipe the proverbial memory/image bank and try to move on?
Or, do I try to stay true to my emotions? And if so, how, since she has such an issue with this?

She's not sexually repressed, she's not too much of a pride, I just can't understand why?!

WTH?!

I look forward to seeing what you all think as you've given me exceptional advice so far! Please don't just tell me to talk it out with her though because I get the feeling this is now a closed subject. Also, this has knocked my confidence I have in her with this kind of matter so any further conversation about it will be hard, to say the least.

Just thought of something to add, I did make it perfectly clear to her how much it mattered to me, when I first told her.

Thanks.

Ourcrazymodern?

Heck, Midnightskyline, when I read the OP, I thought, "What, she goes topless?" Keep the shirts yourself, & an open, dirty mind. I think if you've expressed yourself adequately & she wants to partially accommodate you, you should respect her limits as well. Maybe she likes being naked.

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BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

Manic_Skafe

This can't be real.

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"Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

zenda

^^^^^^
What Ourcrazymodern? said included, ".... I think if you've expressed yourself adequately & she wants to partially accommodate you, you should respect her limits as well."
I strongly agree with this.


Hi Midnightskyline ... Please keep and respect your sense of release for having expressed yourself. That is your perfect right. Congratulations for having done so, and also for not having 'gone on and on about it'. Her right to only partially accomadate you , and to not show particular keen-ness is equally a perfect right.

Your request obviously had a big effect on her ... indeed, it sounds like it was uncomfortable and upsetting to her. But just imagine: even in the midst of her upset - an upset strong and intense enough to make her want to actually throw away her old clothes, she came to say you could chose one of her old shirts which would be kept.


By the way ... when you initially asked her, was it "you'd look great in a shirt .. sexy" or was it using 'fetish' language and mentioning that you dress up in them? I'm mentioning because her reaction seems as beyond what I'd expect for 'You look good in that shirt', as does your tentativity about asking in the first place. What kind of person is she generally, and how do the two of you generally get along? I'm trying to build a bigger picture than just you, her, clothes and wardrobes.

Best wishes

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ZENDA

Poetry

Dump her.

Not because she didn't fulfill your "fetish" wish, but because of how she responded. She has no respect for you or your desires. She has, according to your description, the upper hand in the relationship.

Even if you two were on equal footing, she would have not reacted the way she did.

I mean, you took the time and overcame the hurdle of your shyness and discomfort in order to communicate to her something very important to you and she basically spit on you in response. Her actions were along the lines of women who catch their boyfriends masturbating and say, "Oh, no, you are not doing that in this relationship".

She should not be dictating the terms of your sex life, and that's what she just did.

Leave her and find someone who respects you and your needs, or at least is willing to actually discuss them. Christ.

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"You know what? Fuck the moon! He controls our water and our women. I've had enough!"

kramus

Learn and move on. At the end of the day you regret the things you didn't do. You are now officially in a relationship groaning under an unending weight of baggage. Lay it down.

__________________
And now to disengage the clutch of the forebrain ...
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jewels

Poetic and perfect.

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Midnightskyline

Thanks again for all replies.

Final update: relationships demand compromise.

After a lengthy discussion about the topic, my gf has deemed the whole thing 'weird, disgusting and pervy'. I am also apparently chauvinistic for trying to 'dictate' what she wears in the bedroom.

Fine. She doesn't want to. Question answered, and because I love her so much for her other facets, I shall not be mentioning this, or apparently any further sexual desires however big and small in the future, at her request.

It may not sound it, but she really is the most wonderful person. I love her with all my heart and soul, and I shall compromise

Only issue now is how to repress my urges, and how to not appear bitter.

Thank you all for listening.

Charlatan

Trust me on this. You will find that this is only the first of many disappointments. You may love her for other things, and that's great, but you will not be able to move on from this. It will come back again.

Move on now while you still can.

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- Old Man Luedecke

amonkie

It's not how to appear bitter... it is how to actually not BE bitter.

Compromise isn't compromise if both people are not giving up something.

She's laying out your sex life rules, and you are complying.

That is not compromise.

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Calling from deep in the heart, from where the eyes can't see and the ears can't hear, from where the mountain trails end and only love can go... ~~~ Three Rivers Hare Krishna

Midnightskyline

AMonkie, incidentally I agree. But how do I sort this out without Labouring the issue and causing unnecessary friction and upset? I get the feeling now that it just ain't going to happen, so should I just give up and be happy with what I do have, and not jeopardise that?

How to repress sexual desires?! Or at least keep them to myself and not feel like I want/have to tell her?

amonkie

Anything truly important is going to cause some growing pains on both sides - that's just the way life is.

You would have had a chance at compromise if her response had been "you know what, off the bat this freaks me out and I'm not comfortable. But, I know this is important to you so if you can be patient and we can keep discussing it, maybe we can find a place we're both happy".

She's not willing to have that conversation with you. Because of that... bringing it up, period, is going to cause friction.

How long have you guys been together? There's a saying.. when there's trouble in the bedroom it's a sign that there's bigger troubles elsewhere in the relationship. Based on what you have said so far.. I think this might be the case for you too.

Do you really want to be with someone who doesn't want to totally knock your socks off since you'd be willing to do the same for her?

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Calling from deep in the heart, from where the eyes can't see and the ears can't hear, from where the mountain trails end and only love can go... ~~~ Three Rivers Hare Krishna

Manic_Skafe

Why repress your desires? One of the more dangerous aspects of pairing up is having to navigate dual value systems but outside of your relationship, hypothetically speaking if you need, exactly how reasonable do your desires seem? If stuff of this sort is considered so perverse as to be so ridiculously beyond discussion then what is permitted? You have a right to happiness and having your sexual desires fulfilled so long as you respect that stuff enough to put yourself in relationships where you're respected as an equal. Sure there's all that stuff about compromise but as you've painted things, she doesn't sound concerned in the least with anything but what she feels.

Normal as this may be for your relationship, you know better.

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zenda

Hi Midnightskykline.

I've just caught up on your latest developments, and responses to you.
I, too, reckon that the right to discuss is a basic human right.

Manic_Skafe just said " ..... If stuff of this sort is considered so perverse as to be so ridiculously beyond discussion then what is permitted? ..... "
I vigorously echo that question; and also that learning to just 'live with it' and pretending not to be bitter are not your best next steps.

I reckon there's active stuff for you to go ahead and do now: there's information there for you to gather and organise. To what extent does discussion generally have a place in your present relationship? You opened the topic in the context of your intense desires in a sex-related area, now what are the patterns around 'who gets to open their mouth' in other areas, including day-to-day housekeeping. How do things get sorted? How else are things the way you want them, and how else would you like them to be different?

Best wishes

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ZENDA

chinese crested

Both of your posts seem to involve the invasion of your girlfriends privacy. Reading her mail, wearing her clothes.....
Seems that a lot of men like to see a woman wandering around in a nice white mens shirt - that could have been a starting point. As you dont mind superimposing her head, could you not have asked her to wear one of your shirts? Calling it a fetish - well, as poetry has said, its like holding a scone and comparing it to a three tier wedding cake.
Saw a documentary once - some bloke enjoyed having his todger attacked with a cheese grater - personaly - I dont realy know why.

GeoffA

This is my first post here as a newbie. Awesome thoughtful responses to a very important issue.

I think that my best answer is a "Purple Pillow".

The references to communication struck a chord for me. I don't think this post is about shirts, sex, or the partner's response. It really is about developing the abilty to listen, and to do that way beyond "ears" in a way that brings out the very best in oneself and others with whom one comes in contact.

Certainly the partner's response had nothing to do with anything that affects the outcome for the person who posted. Sooner or later the outcome would be crap anyhow.

Something else is missing. And has been missing way before the crisis came to a head. If it was not going to be shirts, sooner or later it would be someting else maybe finances or parenting or how omlettes should be cooked.

So, this is where the purple pillow can come into play.

More to follow if some more posts come through.

Unknown2U

This 1000x over....Her crushing your fantasies or fetish without regard to your feelings is bullshit. Her throwing away the shirts is a bit harsh and says alot about her. I mean that can really damaging to the way you communicate with her in future regards. Geez. Its the little cracks that develop into shattered glass. Dont overlook how she reacted to this.

Midnightskyline

Hi all, sorry it's been so long, I've read all your responses and taken them in, as always.

Couldn't sleep tonight so I've gotten up to write down/ponder everything that's running through my mind right now. Bear with me if you will because I have a lot to vent and it's not necessarily going to be in order, or coherent. But here goes...

The first thing to do is an update. Since I had that altercation about the shirts, I've tried really hard to not mention or think about my sexual desires to her at all. Surprisingly, it's been quite successful and I haven't actually felt that repressed really. I didn't want to pressure her, as she requested, so I feel like our relationship has enjoyed a bit of an upturn recently. That is to say, we've both been happier and gotten on better generally for the last week or so. We've mentioned sex a couple of times however, as you'll see.

However, in this time, whether subconciously or otherwise, I've found my mind wandering yet again. I can't stop it, and I've already tried repressing, so the only thing for it is to vent it all and hear what you guys have to say, and keep it all internally so to speak. This came to a head about a week ago, when I decided to go and seek professional 'help'. I met with a psychotherapist in my local area. I took it upon myself to get outside help, but unfortunately it wasn't that helpful really beyond finding someone else's point of view, but I can get that here, from more varied sources and at considerably less cost

Aaaanyway. So I wrote a little list of the things that are bothering me right now. Remember, it's 3am and its been a long day.

1. Something which I don't think I mentioned in previous posts what that my S/O said to me during the discussion 'I believe sexual fantasies should be kept to yourself'. Fair enough, I won't force her. She is entitled to her opinion. But what if I want to share mine? And surely sharing these things will further both our sex lives? Go figure, but maybe I'm just being closed-minded. I'm interested to see what everyone thinks of this. This leads me to about three days ago. We got talking about fantasies (she started the conversation?!) and she mentioned that she used to masturbate to certain images...These being 'rough sex'...I.e. hair pulling, submission, coming in her face, spanking etc... As you can imagine, my eyebrows jumped up about 4 inches! But, she said she would never even want to act these out in real life, it was just that she got some kind of masochistic sexual buzz out of these images. The thought of actually doing it turned her stomach. I only mention this because it's so contradictory to her policy of 'no sharing sexual fantasies' when they're obviously in there somewhere, and very, very real. Why can't she understand mine!?

2. About three months after we got together, I remember I stayed over her place one night, and in the morning she woke me up, and she was wearing a silk nightie thing, stockings, high black heels and quite slutty make up...needless to say this sent me crazy, and we had great sex for a couple of hours. Where has this girl gone? That must've been pretty brave of her, and she was all the sexier for it. I guess little flashes of extroversion like that have given me some sort of expectation that she will be like that more often, but this is a moot point because setting yourself up for disappointment is very silly indeed, and I've learnt to know better.

3. Every time we go to bed these days, she wears some sort of nightie, that are really sexy, black satin with lace, longish blue silk etc etc. They are really nice, but after we have sex she goes and changes into traditional PJs. How come she does that but won't even entertain the idea of dressing up for me? Maybe it's a control thing. What do you think? This is the issue because like I said, it's all obviously in there somewhere, but how to get it out to come out without pressuring her?

4. Just a couple of hours ago when we got into bed, she mentioned that she'd read an article in a trashy magazine about a vibrator that heats up. When I asked why she'd mentioned that, she said she thought it was a cool idea. I asked her if she'd like to buy one to try, she just shrugged it off because she didn't think how it could help with sex. But she brought it up in the first place, so I just don't understand. Incidentally, and perhaps this is more relevant than I first thought, (I'm going to get graphic now, but I don't have to ever meet you guys so pfft) she can only orgasm in one position, and even then it's only because I'm touching her clit, and in almost three years she has never come simply through straight sex. I'm aware that some women simply can't, and that's fine. But this is where the vibrator comes in, she could possibly orgasm in more different positions because a vibrator can go where I can't reach....etc....I've always wondered whether it's because i'm not well endowed enough, because she's the first girl that I've been with who I've had to touch as well to get her to orgasm. But that is a separate issue altogether!
So the point is, how to get her to open up and admit to me, and herself, that adding new things to sex can be enjoyable...for both of us!?

5. (Warning, 3am rambling) Leading on from the penis size thing.... When she gets properly pissed off, she'll say something that she knows would make a grown man cry, just to spite me. And I mean MEAN, so spiteful you wouldn't believe. We had a severe argument a long time ago, while we were on holiday, while we were swimming in the sea, for some reason. Anyway, she ended up saying to me, 'You know that guy I was with before you? Yeah? Well his cock was about half as big again as yours'. Ouch. This argument was literally about where we were going to eat for dinner, or something. Completely irrelevant anyway. Wow. That really fucking hurt, and I'm not particularly secure about that sort of thing anyway. I'm happy with my body but my penis is not my pride and joy, so to speak! It's average, and I'm not looking for reassurance at all, but WOW. That comment, as I'm sure you'll agree guys, hurt a lot. Even if she didn't mean it, the fact remains that some other dude was that much larger. THAT much. I asked her a couple of weeks after if she'd meant what she said, and she only said it to spite me, but it was actually a true fact.
The reason I mention this is because sometimes when I'm doing nothing in particular, (i.e. now, when I can't sleep), this comment comes back to haunt me. Badly. Linking in to 4. - was he able to make her come without touching her?! Insecureville, Population - Me.

6. ( Told you they weren't in any order!!) My S/O is a Pilot, flying around Europe on a freelance basis. Tomorrow she's going to Holland, and ALL I can think about is how good she's going to look in her uniform. I just want to take photos of her, touch her with her uniform on, etc etc. I'm sure you can use your imagination. I've told her that I find her sexy in her uniform a long time ago, but again, she dismissed it. Is this something else I'm going to have to repress as well?! (I didn't tell her HOW much I liked it...)

7. Finally, relating back to the actual topic of this thread, I don't know if i mentioned it before, but also in the part where I said I'd compromised about not mentioning her shirts, she'd said to me that 'I'll go and buy some more, I only threw them away because they were old fashioned' And to be fair, she did basically throw out almost every item of clothing she had lol. Oh and did I mention she made me take them to the recycling centre myself?!!??!?!
Will she really buy some more, or was she just saying that because she wanted to placate me, with no intention of doing so? I know this sounds stupid but use this analogy; a smoker is 'made' to quit, but he *might be bought a packet of cigarettes in a months time*. What is the smoker going to think? When? Where? How? How much? What type? etc etc. False hope is cruel. On the other hand, if she's for real, awesome! But who knows, because I can't ask!

Ok, that's it. Do you think she sounds sexually repressed? She told me once that she only started touching herself when she was 16-17, whereas I was masturbating at 12...which I thought was a pretty normal time.

Also, don't know how relevant this is, but she's three years older than me, but is less experienced in relationships than I am. She'd never 'been in love', and had never, ever had a regular relationship. All her previous partners had been one night stands, casual sex (ironic huh? Where has this girl gone?) or friends with benefits. (By her own admission). But I must stress, she doesn't come across overly-emotional, needy, clingy or any of those other things that I've come to associate with people who don't have relationship experience. She really is a wonderful person. God, you guys must think she's so nasty lol. She's not.

Thanks for listening, as always, and good luck deciphering my ramblings!

Manic_Skafe

Seeing as how any of the numbered above would be relationship ending deal-breakers for me, I've got to ask, are you actually happy? Honestly and truthfully, is this working for you?

There doesn't seem to be much to decipher - she's got your balls in her breast pocket and you're thrilled she's allowed you along for the ride without having yet cut your air supply. If you're not miserable then you're mental and if you don't pull the plug or at least do something to drastically change this then you'll deserve to be as miserable as this will leave you.

That you can even make love to her after she seriously compared your dick to one of her exes is deplorable, disgusting and beyond me in ways I couldn't ever comprehend. Don't be fooled into thinking that turning yourself into a doormat will keep her from leaving you.

Uggh.

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"Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

zenda

Hi Midnightskyline

Thanks for the update.

Sounds to me that she's got a sharp, and possibly emotionally intense divide between 'only fantasy' and 'could do', and that you talking about yours triggers it. Nighty-to-PJ, and 'Shirts???? Noooo!'-to-'I'll get some shirts' tends, imo, to confirm this. If 'talking about things like that' is only OK when she starts it, well that is not 'mutual relationship', but it's an interesting start. For now, go with it and see what happens when, if she starts it, you release Your cards on the table.

Why? Well, on the one hand she IS controlling, and advice to get out of the relationship does make sense to me. At the same time, you are asserting, not for the first time, that you and she can get along and you're obviously seeking to try to make it work. But might this mean 'only ever on her terms'? If so, then RUN - 'Run for the hills'. On the other hand, might she having difficulty transitioning to mutal and long-term relationship and INTENDING to find mutuality, albeit bloody clumsily? Well, people change and develop, and that's where your being understanding and patient, as you are proposing to be, could be an important part of a solution. However, if you're going on this latter course, then please please find out: What are your thresholds? And what do you need to know in order to respect them and act on them? What are you willing to 'put up with' and for how long?'


Concerning your having seen a psychotherapist: Well done - since you've comitted to work through this in the company of a 'support group', you're obviously going for balance, rather than just acting out your intuitions and drives. I reckon a therapist is a great addition to your team, and that if the one you saw did not help you beyond giving another viewpoint, look for another. You mention that WE are cheaper, and I'll put it to you that we are doing a different job than a therapist: because we're not getting paid, we have no professional obligation to you. Furthermore, we are anonymous, or at least not fully referenced for you, and you do not know the background to perspectives we offer:
eg 1: My 'background': It is biassed. It is based on the premise "people can learn to get along if they work at it". Fine and dandy in principle, BUT if you need to 'RUN NOW!' then my input risks doing you a disservice by slowing that withdrawal, because, restricted to text as I am, there are massive gaps in information, lots of room for doubt and my premise, leans me toward 'When in doubt, keep trying' rather than 'When in doubt, withdraw'. Whereas, if I were in the room with you, I could adjust to your immediate responses and fit my own to a much more precise picture of where you and your directions and options.
eg 2: Mystery background - The 'Purple Pillow' is described as being about communication, but you were not addressed directly, and it was not presented in a way you could immediately use. Also conditions were set on whether it would be described further.
eg 3: 'Forum background' loads the dice too: you have determined seperate threads, and this, being a forum, responses may indicate connections but will tend to remain 'on topic' as you have set it. As ChineseCrested points out, there are strong links between this and your 'Looked at her computer' topic. Taken together, they provide dimension - each containing, IMO, background to the other, but potentially becoming an 'unwieldy whole' if limited to a 'topic-based' text format.

I do recommend that you remain open to the the possible value of a 'neutral' person sitting in a chair with you, or on the phone, who can take account of your moment to moment responses.
Have a look at this thread I started a while ago:
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/tilted-...therapist.html
As I re-read it, I reckon it is developing, slowly and firmly, into a robust knowledge base for people seeking to apply quality-control. It could be useful to you; and your experience, if you choose to share it, with the therapist you visited, could be useful to others.

Best wishes

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ZENDA

Midnightskyline

Thanks for your input manic skafe, and i take your point.

However, obviously this being a forum, as zenda says, you can't really get all the details across, and my tone of voice and the way you guys perceive me and my emotions are going to be skewed because of the nature of this communication.

Let me stress one thing, in everyday life, I am happy. Satisfied. Content. Whatever you want to call it. However, these are 'niggles' that I would rather have ironed out than left to simmer. I don't feel hard done by by any of this, and feeling all these emotions is confusing because honestly, i can't emphasise enough, that our relationship is strong, loving and mutual. She takes advantage of me sometimes, and me likewise, whether it's a conscious decision or not.

Let me give you some examples to better explain how our relationship works.

I read an article recently on how to judge how good someone will be in bed, before you sleep with them (obviously). One thing that got me was the 'assertiveness' thing. Telling the other person what you want, rather than 'i honestly don't mind, you decide'. She is the 'i dont mind' type, rather than the assertive type. With most things anyway. What do you want for dinner? Don't mind. You decide. No I don't want to be selfish. For fucks sake (argument ensues) ...........that's probably as bad as it gets. That and how disorganised I am. But then likewise I hate it when she gets angry at stuff for seemingly no reason. 99% we are brilliant together. I feel lucky.

However, these things are in my mind so I might as well deal with them, right? They are not deal-breakers for me. If she was 8 ft tall or stank of dog poo then they would be deal breakers. These are things which I believe could/would add to our relationship.

I just wanted to clear all this up really, yes these things are getting to me but no they're not going to make me dump her, unless they manifest themselves severely in other, more important situations.


The same question keeps burning the back of my mind though, how come she was the way she was, and is now absolutely, utterly, completely the opposite. A while ago she told me the most 'dangerous' sexual encounter she'd ever had was with some dude who played for a rugby team. As they were doing it, the rest of the team came into their hotel room and were watching, and she didn't make them leave. Apparently she actually quite liked them watching. .... Fair enough, I probably didn't need to know that but never mind. What matters is that she talks about this stuff very easily, but how come she doesn't want to please me in such a simple and non-threatening way? 3 weeks into our relationship, we'd only slept together maybe 4-5 times, and in the evening, at her house, she looks me in the eye and says 'I want you to fuck me in the ass'. Where has this attitude and liberation gone?! The only thing I can think of is that she's put on maybe a stone or stone and a half (I don't know how much that is in metric, maybe 10 kg/22 lbs?). Obviously I am aware that relationships morph and adapt over time, but it just seems like something has gone wrong somewhere. Sometimes I think to myself, shit, I'm only 21 and i'm settling down with some girl who doesn't want to get down and dirty? Is that normal?! EDIT:: After re-reading what i'd posted, I wanted to add something. She talks *so* comfortably (almost to the point of it being strange) about her past sexual encounters, partners etc, but then she thinks im pervy/weird/forcing her/being chauvinistic when i mention something so innocent, and won't even talk about it for 30 seconds. What do you guys think of this? Insecurity? She's let herself go, attitude wise? She takes me for granted in that area? I'm stumped. I'd literally do almost anything just to be able to open a proper, mutual dialogue with her about I *and* she likes in the bedroom.

Again, let me stress, niggles. This may sound strange given what i've just said, and how i've said it, but I'd rate our regular sex perhaps 8/10. I've had better sex before with other partners but obviously not with the same connection. But I want to make it 10/10, is there anything so wrong with that?! Not being able to get to 10/10 is undesirable of course, but it wouldn't make me walk out on her.

Call me a wet blanket, spineless, whatever, but I know how I feel and hopefully i've clarified the situation a little.

Thanks as always!!

Oh and what do you think about the vibrator? Should I just buy one anyways, and surprise her with it? Would she put me down? Should I not even give her the chance to be embarassed by talking about it, and just go ahead and do it? This may sound like a small thing but I just don't want to backwards from here by mortifying her!

waitforsugar

I don't think anyone here is advocating for you to leave her because of the sex. I think you should bail because she sounds cruel. When you mentioned her comparing your size to a previous partner, my jaw hit the floor. It would never ever occur to me to say that, no matter how angry I got.

Do not buy her a vibrator without her input. There are so many types and it sounds like you have no idea if she would even want one. I personally would prefer to pick one out with my partner if it was a gift.

In regards to her not masturbating until she was 16-17, I don't think that it's that unusual. I started earlier but I know women that started around that age. It seems like you are trying to find an explanation for some very erratic behavior and there just might not be one.

Whatever you decide to do, I hope everything works out for you.

Poetry

I caught up on this thread last night on my phone, then decided to come back today and respond to the new information.

However, re-reading this, I now have a bit of a tension headache from the sheer number of ways that this situation is messed up. I could seriously write you a four+ page essay (single spaced, mind you) on how fucked this is not just from a sexual standpoint, but a social and psychological one.

The only thing that makes this somewhat redeemable is knowing that she's likely going to leave you in a year or two (max) and you'll (hopefully) find someone healthy and look back and go "Wow, I had *no* idea. None. I'm so glad I'm out of that and I'm grateful for the experience but not so much for the amount of money I'm going to have to put forth for a therapist in order to ever feel good about myself again."

Okay, as I wrote that out, it's not that redeeming.

__________________
"You know what? Fuck the moon! He controls our water and our women. I've had enough!"

chinese crested

You yourself are not honest are you op. Secrets kill relationships. Tell her you have been snooping in her personal stuff and reading it, tell her you have been too shy to cut your own head out of photos and put them on the torsos of ladies in blouses, so you decapitated hers. Then present her with the vibrator - and you might want to add some lubricant to save your tears. Get it over and done with. Out and proud! Tell her your dick isnt small, but she has a vag like a wind tunnel and thats why it cant find the sides.... or be subtle. Come into the bedroom with a seductive plank strapped across your butt.

zenda

'Seductively strapped', I reckon ...








unless it is a bawd

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ZENDA

Midnightskyline

Topic exhausted. Thanks the help.

kisabex

I think your fetish is connected to your love for your partner and being able to experience your need may bring you closer to gether in many ways. My advice is to tell her how you feel while reminding her how much you love her and want to please her aswell. it must not all be ablut you when you describe how you want thi experience with her. annnd whe you introduce the fetish take her intpo it slowley at a time, start small and build big so that she becomes comfortable with what you desire. I admire you for being so open and hope more people do so. My fetish is making fetish wear, i love the way it looks on otheres and feels to make and sew and how shiney pvc is, yet i dont like to wear it, so you see we all have different fetishes : )
take care
xx