Something I've been pondering - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

innovis · 02-04-2006, 03:16 AM

A frequently occuring thread that I've seen pop up on this and other message boards has motivated me to post this question...

It seems that many guys have problems with their significant other having male friend(s) who are uncomfortably close and almost visibly gunning for her, to everyone except her.

So I guess my question is, what is a guy to do in a situation where his girl either has an old friend or makes a new friend who is disrespectfully close and seriously flirting with/pursuing the girl, and the girl does not see it, or does not see that it bothers you, or does not care/do anything to stop it? It seems like the general consensus is that bringing up the issue makes you seem weak, insecure, or that you lack confidence, and makes the woman more defensive and closer to said friend. What is the solution?

Somehow it gets twisted to seem like the issue is that you're afraid that your girlfriend will cheat on you/you don't trust her, and if you trusted her that it wouldn't be an issue.

I think the way the boyfriend geninuinely feels, though, is a variety of things...
1) That she is condoning courtship behavior that you went through to get her
2) That she is building a relationship with someone that, in the event of rough times with you, could be fallen back on
3) The new guy is either hoping for the demise of your relationship or trying to bring it about and is basically assaulting/insulting you personally
4) There is some major element of disrespect that I can't seem to express simply or elegantly, other than that someone is moving in on your "claim".

Solutions, comments, ideas, anyone?

The only thing I can think of is to talk about this kind of stuff before a relationship starts, and ascertain if this girl can be trusted to see this behavior and take action against it/if she expects you to take action against it.

I've noticed that many girls, perhaps due to lack of confidence, insecurity, or poor self esteem, think that guys aren't interested in them and so when a guy acts friendly it is not because he is interested, its because he wants to be friends. Obviously a guy can't lay out his entire hand if he knows that you're not single, and the only option for him at the time is to befriend you to get closer, because some women will outright turn away guys who quickly show romantic intent.

calvin88 · 02-04-2006, 04:22 AM

i totally agree with innovis in that some girls are just blind to how guys try to befriend them just to get closer. Many times had my ex been like o yea I met this guy but he just wants to be friends blah blah blah. And we had not broken up for like any time at all and she tells me that those same guys asked her out on dates. Which makes me totally wonder exactly what kind of friends they had intended on being if we hadn't broken up in the first place.

cellophanedeity · 02-04-2006, 07:39 AM

If a guy I dated didn't want me hanging out with, or even innocently flirting with old friends, I'd break up with him. If I can't flirt with my male friends, why would it be okay to flirt and hang around with my female friends? I'm just as likely to want to sleep with them.

I have little patience for guys who think I'm going to go around sleeping with other people even though I tell them that I won't. I expect trust. Why date someone that you can't trust with other "potential mates?"

Carno · 02-04-2006, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innovis

So I guess my question is, what is a guy to do in a situation where his girl either has an old friend or makes a new friend who is disrespectfully close and seriously flirting with/pursuing the girl, and the girl does not see it, or does not see that it bothers you, or does not care/do anything to stop it? It seems like the general consensus is that bringing up the issue makes you seem weak, insecure, or that you lack confidence, and makes the woman more defensive and closer to said friend. What is the solution?

Somehow it gets twisted to seem like the issue is that you're afraid that your girlfriend will cheat on you/you don't trust her, and if you trusted her that it wouldn't be an issue.

I think the way the boyfriend geninuinely feels, though, is a variety of things...
1) That she is condoning courtship behavior that you went through to get her
2) That she is building a relationship with someone that, in the event of rough times with you, could be fallen back on
3) The new guy is either hoping for the demise of your relationship or trying to bring it about and is basically assaulting/insulting you personally
4) There is some major element of disrespect that I can't seem to express simply or elegantly, other than that someone is moving in on your "claim".

The guy who tries to move in on another guy's girlfriend is really the lowest form of life out there. It's all about respect. He should respect the fact that you don't like him getting all touchy feely with your girlfriend. Your girlfriend should also respect the fact that it makes you uncomfortable to see her being emotionally manipulated by some dude. You can't force it though, you have to let her know how it makes you feel, and be done with it. If you're really insecure and bring it up all the time, it will drive her away from you.

Now, harmless flirting and whatnot between old friends I really don't give a shit about. But when it's some random dude and it starts getting more intense, then I would probably go to the other guy and tell him to back the fuck up. After that, there really is nothing else to do other than let nature take its course. If the girl wants to be a dumb bitch and break up with you for another guy, then fuck her. She obviously wasn't worth it. Then I'd also consider beating the other guy to a pulp, considering such factors as who would win, likeliness that the other guy is a whiny bitch who would call the cops, etc

maleficent · 02-04-2006, 12:19 PM

Quote:

What is the solution?

The solution is to trust her...

People don't own other people. People have free will. She is with guy A right now because she wants to be. No one is guarenteed permanence. Keeping her away from other guys, doesn't guarentee permanance. If guy B is trying to move in on said girlfriend, and girlfriend doesn't see it- well then Guy A has nothing to worry about. Girlfriend sees guy as a friend... Nothing is gonna happen. If girlfriend's head is turned and now girlfriend is into Guy B - well there was a problem with the relationship with Guy A and he should be glad he found out sooner rather than later....

It makes me absolutely crazy when people try to tell another person who you can and cannot be friends with... My parents tried to do it to me in high school, when two of my buddies didn't have the best reputations.. trust me to do the right thing... I always did.

Poppinjay · 02-04-2006, 12:26 PM

Here's the deal from a committed guy: I don't care.

If a betrayal happens, I care. Until I hear otherwise, I don't care.

I don't have the time to research these things and I don't care.

Trust her. That's your option.

Siege · 02-04-2006, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

The solution is to trust her...

Exactly. I would trust her not to mess around with her guy friends, just how I expect her to trust me not to mess around with my female friends.

I'll be very surprised if for some reason your s/o isn't close with any people of the opposite sex other than you.

innovis · 02-05-2006, 12:23 AM

I can't believe that most of the responses in this thread essentially advocate not telling your partner how you feel (because that was what the majority of my question was, not a question of trust, which I even stated). What is the point of being in a relationship with someone if you can't even talk about how you feel with them?

maleficent · 02-05-2006, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innovis

I can't believe that most of the responses in this thread essentially advocate not telling your partner how you feel (because that was what the majority of my question was, not a question of trust, which I even stated). What is the point of being in a relationship with someone if you can't even talk about how you feel with them?

The simple truth is... that if you tell someone of either gender that you don't like them hanging out with people of the opposite gender - it's sending up a major red flag that you do not trust them... and that you have no faith in the relationship.

You have to ask yourself why you don't like them hanging out with the opposite gender? Any friends of the opposite gender you have - are you trying to put the make on? If that's true, then... welll... I have nothing to say... if it's not true, then why not give the other person the same courtesy.

Carno · 02-05-2006, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innovis

not a question of trust, which I even stated)

No you didn't.

noodle · 02-05-2006, 07:40 AM

I had primarily male friends while in my last relationship. His solution? He didn't hang around with them. It made him uncomfortable to listen to and watch me joke around with his male friends (never stated outright, I just knew that look on his face) and he didn't want to put himself in a position where he'd be upset the whole time I was having a blast. He trusted me. It took me a really long time and a whole lot of irritation to work through that one. But the bottom line? I had fun hanging out with my guy friends and it gave us some time separate from each other to do what we both liked. It ended up working great for me.
I've almost always been closer with men than with women (on different levels, of course) because I rarely hang out with women outside of work. I work with ALL women. Some women do that. And people flirt. All of the time. With the same or with the opposite gender. Sometimes consciously and sometimes not. Mal's right (as usual

) it really all boils down to trust. And respect. I respected the feelings of the person I was with, but it didn't change what I wanted to do. So we worked on a compromise because it wasn't worth all of the stress. Because the trust was there, in that respect.
Actually, he was more weirded out by the way his female friends and I joked around when we were all out and intoxicated.

Diuretica · 02-05-2006, 09:36 PM

I have the same sort of problem with my gf, etc. and I do realize that it is a problem of trust. The thing is, attraction is something foreign to me in terms of a women's perspective, as in I don't understand how a woman seperates her view of a bf versus her view of a good friend that's a boy. I don't understand what makes for example me a romantic interest and some other guy a non-romantic interest. And it's this uncertainty that makes it hard for me to not be paranoid or a little bit jealous at the smallest things.

I just simply don't know when my gf might be attracted to another guy that's not me because I don't know the criteria for attraction. Anyways, this post was probably immensely confusing, but any advice?

fat-tony · 02-06-2006, 04:58 AM

I once read somewhere that the things that they are most insecure about with their partners are the things that they are insecure with themselves (aka Takes one to know one). Even when I'm in a relationship, I do tend to have at least a little bit of attraction to my female friends.

I think (hope) it's natural. I mean, they're of the opposite sex and I like them, otherwise I wouldn't be friends with them. This isn't to say that I want to jump all my female friends, but rather that there's obviously compatibility there. Also, if one of those friends happens to be attractive, well, you can't really just "turn off" the noticing gear in your head

.

Assuming that I'm somewhat normal feeling like this, it's no wonder guys can get insecure about this. It's got to freak them the hell out that a) they know other guys think the same things, and that either b) the girlfriend is completely oblivious to this, or c) the girlfriend is quite aware of this and is actually attracted to them but keeps it on the down low.

I try my best not to worry about it though, because no matter what there's nothing I can do to control the situation. The best I can do is try to not worry about it, because that's just the way things are.

Vincentt · 02-06-2006, 05:44 AM

The best thing to do is attack with kindness.

If you act like a jerk to the guy, your girlfriend, and her other friends will think you are an ass. They might even say something like "you should date someone better."

If you act nice to him, he may feel worse for moving on your girl, and all of her other friends can't say you are a jerk.

There are times when her friends will want her to break up with you, because they want their other friend to be happy.

innovis · 02-12-2006, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredweena

And people flirt. All of the time.

Really? Even in relationships? Because it seems extremely acceptable for women to throw a fit if their boyfriend even looks at another woman, and that is way before flirting begins. I don't really think I'd like for a significant other to flirt with someone else in front of me (because none of them have yet) and I really hope that they wouldn't do anything when I'm not around that they wouldn't do when I am around.

As to Mal's points, to me its not a matter of trust. I see the overly-friendly-male-friend the same way that I see any of her female friends who try to harm the relationship, or act offensively/threateningly to you in some way. If a guy wants to be friends with your girlfriend, acts like a friend, doesn't get touchy feely or whatever, thats all great. No problem. It isn't a blanket gender problem. Where it becomes a matter of disrespect or a potential harm to the relationship is where I have a problem. It is a problem with specific individuals.

I'm curious to hear from males who have experienced a female significant other be concerned over a female friend (and how it turned out).

I'd also be curious to hear if any women actually stopped associating with someone because it made their SO uncomfortable, or because of something that their SO made light of.

tecoyah · 02-12-2006, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innovis

I'm curious to hear from males who have experienced a female significant other be concerned over a female friend (and how it turned out).

Though it may be hard to believe....I am a somewhat flirtatious person, and my wife is well aware of this. We communicate very well, and she has no problem telling me when I might be crossing into the "Leading On" territory. Personality plays a very powerful role in the interaction between the sexes, and if you do not understand the way your SO's mind works (intent), it is likely there will be misunderstanding. Communication is the key to ANY relationship, and cannot be stressed enough.
My wife has no issue with the way I interact with female friends, But there is a fine line in the sand on the flirtation front....which requires continuous attention to avoid a misstep. When I do get close to this line...I know, but may cross it anyway because of who I am, and I depend on her to point these things out to me. In my case the concern is welcomed and indeed, a part of the relationship. This would be impossible if we did not talk about our lives with each other, and here again, is the key to making each other happy.

analog · 02-12-2006, 03:15 AM

Trust your girlfriend/wife.

Let her know that you trust her. Let her also know that you see x, y, and z.. and not because you're the boyfriend or husband, but because you're on Team Guy. You know how it works- as sleazy and horrible it is to be scamming on another guy's girl, you at least know how it looks and feels. You know she'd never do anything, but you're concerned with the friendship motives of a guy whose goals are so obvious to you. Make sure you leave room for her to insist nothing of the sort is going on, that he's "just a friend" or "harmless"- because 99% of the time she will. She's going to see it as you being territotial, or needy, or implying some extra form of "ownership", or (at its base) that you simply don't trust her.

Trust is paramount- respect trust, and you respect her.

And ladies- if your boyfriend/husband tells you he's convinced a male friend of yours is trying to get close to you, scamming you, PLEASE AT LEAST LISTEN. All the trust in the world doesn't matter when the guy has motives other than just being friends. If his motives are anything more than friendship, then he has no respect for you, your boyfriend/husband, or your relationship- and that's no kind of friend to have.

snowy · 02-12-2006, 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tecoyah

Though it may be hard to believe....I am a somewhat flirtatious person, and my wife is well aware of this. We communicate very well, and she has no problem telling me when I might be crossing into the "Leading On" territory. Personality plays a very powerful role in the interaction between the sexes, and if you do not understand the way your SO's mind works (intent), it is likely there will be misunderstanding. Communication is the key to ANY relationship, and cannot be stressed enough.
My wife has no issue with the way I interact with female friends, But there is a fine line in the sand on the flirtation front....which requires continuous attention to avoid a misstep. When I do get close to this line...I know, but may cross it anyway because of who I am, and I depend on her to point these things out to me. In my case the concern is welcomed and indeed, a part of the relationship. This would be impossible if we did not talk about our lives with each other, and here again, is the key to making each other happy.

Tec, you might as well have been talking about me...

My current SO has a lot to deal with when it comes to me! Yes, I can be quite the flirt. He thinks it's funny and he likes that I do my best to keep people comfortable by doing so (flirting is a natural social action, and it tends to put opposite sexes at ease). Furthermore, I have not one but TWO best guy friends, J. and S. Well, S. and I were, ahem, a little more than friends for some time before I met my current guy. Now, when I am around these guys, we hug and cuddle and horseplay. We wrestle and share beds and have an incredible physical intimacy despite the difference in sexes.

Yet my SO trusts me absolutely, and knows how much I love him. He knows that S. and I were always better off as friends (my own admission). Funny thing is, now he and S. are becoming quite buddy-buddy (yay!) as are he and J. He has no problem with the fact that sometimes, when we drink over at S.'s, I climb into S.'s bed and fall asleep. I doubt he would have a problem if I crashed there overnight, even. Why? Because he TRUSTS me.

And he's damn well RIGHT to trust me.

blade02 · 02-12-2006, 08:44 AM

Im not one of the "enlightend" ones on here, so here's my take on it. Yes you have to trust your SO but you dont have to trust her friends. If some guy is scamming your girl. Its not between you and your girlfriend. Its between you and the guy. If he really wants to be JUST friends, he shouldn't mind hanging out with her and YOU. Thats your opportunity to take him off to the side and let him know how things work in your world. I say this, because other than in class or work situations, I have never wanted to be "just friends" with a girl, and I find it very unlikely than any guy truely does. He might settle for just friends, but Im willing to bet that most likely he has more objectives than that. This all only applies to "new guys" if hes a childhood friend, then theres not much you can do about it but tolerate it.

soma · 02-12-2006, 08:58 AM

Quote:

The best thing to do is attack with kindness.

I'm not trying to bring you down or anything, don't get me wrong, But in my experience, it seems the labido of a young male can completely cancel out common decency. It seems reasonable to attack with kindness, but there are folks out there who just plain don't give a shit about other people.

Martel · 02-12-2006, 10:50 AM

I think the issue of trusting or not trusting the gf/wife/whatever is not the main point that innovis is trying to get to. Obviously nobody "owns" their significant other, and I don't think he's trying to talk about telling him/her who he/she can or cannot hang out with. It's not about the control, as I understand it. It's about trying to tell your SO that a person who seems to really be interested in being friends is really only trying to get into your SO's pants. This is not something that people feel comfortable with seeing happen to their loved ones.

I know there have been a bunch of times that Sage and I have been out together and interacted with some guy in whatever capacity (waiters, people who work somewhere, people hanging out at the comic book shop, whatever) where afterwards she thought "oh, he was nice" and I pointed out that he was quite obviously sexually attracted to her and that was the basis for his being nice. A good 90% of the time she had no idea.

Let me tell you this: Ladies, guys can TELL. We KNOW what other guys are doing when they are being all nice and sweet to you in front of us. It is as obvious to us as if they were wearing a big sign around their necks. When we then tell you about it, we're just trying to point it out to you so that you know these people are not being honest and truthful. I think that's really what it comes down to, we love you enough to be offended when someone is relating to you in a dishonest way. It doesn't have anything to do with controlling you or a lack of trust. It would be just like if some sleazy door-to-door salesman was trying to sell our elderly parents something they obviously didn't need, but they thought he was so nice that they invited him in for coffee.

We can tell when people are trying to take advantage of you, and we want you to know it so that you can be on the lookout for it yourselves.

maleficent · 02-12-2006, 11:49 AM

It is all about trust though..

You boys might think you know what the other boys are thinking... but it still comes down to trust... If she respects you... and it's really not a matter of love at all.. then she is not going to notice the other person's attention... and just think that he's nice...

If she falls 'prey' to his niceness-- well - she was never yours to begin with...

People can only do to you what you allow them to do... Unless she's tied down and sedated - she's not being taken advantage of...

By pointing it out-- it comes across as not trusting...

You have to trust her to do the right thing...

blar · 02-12-2006, 12:54 PM

you really have no other choice but to trust her

it is true that there are guys that will get into her pants or you can to dwell into the whether guys and girl can be friends debate........but that’s another topic.

you can't force her not the hang out with people she knows

blade02 · 02-12-2006, 01:44 PM

I think its a huge double standard. Every girl I've been with has always harped on my "concern for the relationship". Apparently, that only applies to actions that I do. If I act like a jerk..."i dont care about us", but if I try to stop some guy from breaking the two of us up, does it count as caring? Nope. It counts as "not being trusting". Im tired of girls that always play the "if you trust me..." or "if you love me...." or a million of the other "if you _____ me...." cards. If a girl is worth a damn, she wont interact with people who are trying to kill the relationship.

maleficent · 02-12-2006, 02:20 PM

If you have to prevent her from hanging out with such people - you don't have much of a relationship... it should be her choice...

Martel · 02-12-2006, 03:35 PM

I think you guys are missing the point.

We're not talking about being afraid she is going to break up with us and start screwing this other dude. We're not saying we're afraid something IS going to happen, we're saying we'd like to be able to talk to our SOs and tell them "here is what this guy is trying to do" without people second guessing our trust or security. If I tell my mom that Amway is really a scam even though they seem really nice, that doesn't mean I don't trust my mom, that means I want to make sure my mom is fully aware of their intentions before talking to them any more.

Sage · 02-12-2006, 03:36 PM

I think Mal hit it on the head- as a woman, I would hope another woman in a comitted relationship wouldn't be stupid enough to hump another guy just because he was nice to her. Like, at what point does he stop being friendly and cross over into "potential amateur gynocologist"? Are the clothes on or off at that point?

I think if you're relationship is seeing your SO, be it man or woman, spending a significant portion of their time with a member of the oppsite sex and you're not there- there's a problem. Unless you've sat down, talked about it, and there's a reason for it (he's gay, she's asexual, they've been best friends since they were two), there's a problem.

My two cents as a woman.

ZeRoGRaViTY · 02-12-2006, 03:41 PM

LoL Male and cello. If a guy feels a certain way and feels uncomfortable with the fact that you are flirting or hanging out with another guy, regardless of how you know this individual, and you just break up with him? WOW. Understood that everyone is their own person and yes, no one does own ANYONE else. But, for someone to just disregard there bf/fiance/husband's feelings like that?. To me that is shallow. But then again if a girl would break up with me over how I felt deep down inside, then they were no good for me to begin with. I had a girlfriend who did have alot of guys friends and she told me this from the beginning. I was ok with it because I also hung out with these guys and all in all, they were pretty cool people. It doesn't mean it didn't bother me deep down and I wish it wasn't that way. Her excuse (yes, she did even give me an excuse on her own for having so many "guy" friends) was she didn't get along with girls that well. I am sure I am not the only guy in this world that has heard that excuse.

Now on the other hand, if a guy has alot of girlfriends it is a totally different story in most cases. I am not generalizing females and males by any means btw. I am just speaking from my personal experiences. (Trust me, I have had a few

Shut it TC lol.) Woman have had to do more or less, undercover work to make themselves feel better about the relationship her BF has with another female. This research can span anywhere from befriended this female, to keeping their senses on high alert at all times. (Guys know your tricks. We just don't say anything cause then you make new tricks, and we have to wait another 10 years to figure the new ones out.)

Regardless, I am not bashing any gender or relationship. I am just speaking from my life and WIIDDE aray of gf's that i have had. I just believe while everyone is their own individual and CAN do what they want, people just have to have a certain amount of respect for one another and how eachother feels. Openness and comunication key.

BTW the one gf that I was speaking of above is now dating a friend that WE used to hang out with on a regular basis.

maleficent · 02-12-2006, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martel

we're saying we'd like to be able to talk to our SOs and tell them "here is what this guy is trying to do" without people second guessing our trust or security. .

Unless they tell you specificlly they are out to nail your SO, how do you know what is exactly going thru their head... Seems like assumptions are being made... and - not saying you are -- at all - but are those assumptions being made because it's something thatt he boyfriend in question would actually do....

You should be able to talk to your SO about anything... but there are some are of the opinion that she just shouldn't see him anymore.. Sorry, she's not 12 and being put on restriction... Express the concern as to how it makes YOU feel - not what theo ther guy might or might not be doing... and allow the girlfriend to make her own choice...

It still comes down to trust...

How would you feel if your girlfriend, who was maybe a little insecure, said she thought your best friend from childhood was trying to get into your pants... Trust... If the boy respects the girlfriend- he's not gonna do anything... no matter what the friend throws at him...

Sage · 02-12-2006, 04:05 PM

Quote:

If the boy respects the girlfriend- he's not gonna do anything... no matter what the friend throws at him...

and if the girlfriend respects the boyfriend, she's not going to go apeshit if he talks about how her hanging with other guys makes him feel.

It seems like a lot of the guys on this forum are saying they want to be able to have a normal, open conversation with their SO's about this issue, and the girls are saying things along the lines of "if you say anything about this or feel like this, then it means you don't trust me." Where does one draw the line? How, exactaly, is a guy supposed to bring this up to his girlfriend (or a girl to her boyfriend) without her flipping out?

I feel like a degree of the "if you even have to say you don't feel good about it, it means you don't trust me" comes from the girl/boy KNOWING that at some point there has been some disrespectful (to the relationship) attitudes/behaviors/thoughts towards the friend of the oppisite sex. If I had a guy friend I went and hung out with and there was NOTHING between us (least from my end) and Martel had an issue with it, I would be doing EVERYTHING in my power to make sure that the issue went away. Talk about why he had the issue, talk about where his feelings come from, talk about how to deal with them. I wouldn't get all up in arms about "him not trusting me! *pout*"

The world would revolve a little easier if women would act like men sometimes....

Siege · 02-12-2006, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sage

I think if you're relationship is seeing your SO, be it man or woman, spending a significant portion of their time with a member of the oppsite sex and you're not there- there's a problem. Unless you've sat down, talked about it, and there's a reason for it (he's gay, she's asexual, they've been best friends since they were two), there's a problem.

My two cents as a woman.

But what if the man/woman simply has more friends of the opposite sex?

A huge majority of my friends are female. Any girl who goes out with me is going to have to deal with that. I like hanging out with my friends and I don't think it's fair that I would have to drop a huge number of my friends for a girl. Having a s/o doesn't mean that you can't have friends that are of the opposite sex who aren't gay/asexual or whatever. Or at least I hope not, or i'm fucked.

02-16-2006, 05:28 PM

I know what you are feeling. But then- much of the advice of trusting is good. For some reason I have had a hard time trusting my SO- and I am trying to ask myself why.
If you do, however, feel uncomfortable with it, I know it can be hard to dismiss. It's like that ugly knot in your stomach you get when something doesn't feel right to you. It IS possible to bring up with her, but you have to do it effectively so that she will not feel offended or think that you are not trusting her. I'd say- give it a little more time. Analyze it with positive questions as to why you feel the way you do and why she may be acting this way.
If that knot is still there, be delicate with discussing it. What a friend told me is to steer clear of using "feelings" and say something along the lines of "this doesn't really work for me. It is hurting me and makes me uncomfortable. You can make the choices you wish......and with the choices you make, I will then need to look at my choices........." No feelings, no ultimatum, no accusations.
I am still working on this..........here is a method I am actually going to take the time to do tonight:
-write down any negative questions and thoughts........read them over ONCE.........
-meditate on this, only turning them into positive questions and thoughts- approx. 20 min.
-take the negative things I wrote and toss them into the fire.......ONE by ONE. (if you can't burn them, tear them up)

This is a release for me and I believe that in doing this, I can give myself a subconcious boost in letting go.

Because I know- I want to have a working relationship. A part of me has been scared that if I put full trust in someone, that it will get broken. I don't want to become vulnerable. But at the same time, in my actions, words, or just the feeling of not trusting him- it shows. And that can tear us apart, as he would withdraw.

SO- honestly- do your part. You can't just whine and moan and want the other person to change- it all starts with you.

innovis · 02-17-2006, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siege

But what if the man/woman simply has more friends of the opposite sex?

A huge majority of my friends are female. Any girl who goes out with me is going to have to deal with that. I like hanging out with my friends and I don't think it's fair that I would have to drop a huge number of my friends for a girl. Having a s/o doesn't mean that you can't have friends that are of the opposite sex who aren't gay/asexual or whatever. Or at least I hope not, or i'm fucked.

I think Sage meant a single member, not friends in general.

I'm not sure about everyone else, but I try to make my SO the first person I call for hangin' out or activities or whatever. Spending too much time with another non-roommate friend isn't really an issue for me. If one of my female friends called me on a daily basis to hang out with them, and only invited me (and never my roommates, other friends, or significant other), I'd be suspicious of their motives.

Sage · 02-17-2006, 02:16 PM

Quote:

If one of my female friends called me on a daily basis to hang out with them, and only invited me (and never my roommates, other friends, or significant other), I'd be suspicious of their motives.

Oh yeah, that's kinda what I meant by my post! Like... it's one thing to have friends of the oppisite sex. That's totally cool- and I am BY NO MEANS saying you should abandon the "bro's before ho's" rule (that's not sexist, I just think that saying is funny). HOWEVER, if your SO starts saying things like "I'm sorry honey, I can't come over to hang out and watch movies naked on the couch with you while drinking gratuituous amounts of liquor and having loud, raucous sex until 4am because I'm going clubbing with (insert member of oppisite sex's name here) and he/she has had a really bad day at work and just needs to let loose" THEN THAT'S A PROBLEM.

That should be pretty obvious.

02-17-2006, 05:58 PM

^^^^ haha I like your specific example there..........

but I know what you are saying. I don't mind him having female friends- as long as it's not him hanging out with just them instead of me........

02-04-2006, 03:16 AM	#1 (permalink)
innovis Crazy	Something I've been pondering A frequently occuring thread that I've seen pop up on this and other message boards has motivated me to post this question... It seems that many guys have problems with their significant other having male friend(s) who are uncomfortably close and almost visibly gunning for her, to everyone except her. So I guess my question is, what is a guy to do in a situation where his girl either has an old friend or makes a new friend who is disrespectfully close and seriously flirting with/pursuing the girl, and the girl does not see it, or does not see that it bothers you, or does not care/do anything to stop it? It seems like the general consensus is that bringing up the issue makes you seem weak, insecure, or that you lack confidence, and makes the woman more defensive and closer to said friend. What is the solution? Somehow it gets twisted to seem like the issue is that you're afraid that your girlfriend will cheat on you/you don't trust her, and if you trusted her that it wouldn't be an issue. I think the way the boyfriend geninuinely feels, though, is a variety of things... 1) That she is condoning courtship behavior that you went through to get her 2) That she is building a relationship with someone that, in the event of rough times with you, could be fallen back on 3) The new guy is either hoping for the demise of your relationship or trying to bring it about and is basically assaulting/insulting you personally 4) There is some major element of disrespect that I can't seem to express simply or elegantly, other than that someone is moving in on your "claim". Solutions, comments, ideas, anyone? The only thing I can think of is to talk about this kind of stuff before a relationship starts, and ascertain if this girl can be trusted to see this behavior and take action against it/if she expects you to take action against it. I've noticed that many girls, perhaps due to lack of confidence, insecurity, or poor self esteem, think that guys aren't interested in them and so when a guy acts friendly it is not because he is interested, its because he wants to be friends. Obviously a guy can't lay out his entire hand if he knows that you're not single, and the only option for him at the time is to befriend you to get closer, because some women will outright turn away guys who quickly show romantic intent.

02-04-2006, 12:26 PM	#6 (permalink)
Poppinjay You had me at hello Location: DC/Coastal VA	Here's the deal from a committed guy: I don't care. If a betrayal happens, I care. Until I hear otherwise, I don't care. I don't have the time to research these things and I don't care. Trust her. That's your option. __________________ I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

02-06-2006, 05:44 AM	#14 (permalink)
Vincentt Addict Location: Tokyo, Japan	The best thing to do is attack with kindness. If you act like a jerk to the guy, your girlfriend, and her other friends will think you are an ass. They might even say something like "you should date someone better." If you act nice to him, he may feel worse for moving on your girl, and all of her other friends can't say you are a jerk. There are times when her friends will want her to break up with you, because they want their other friend to be happy. __________________ .

02-12-2006, 10:50 AM	#21 (permalink)
Martel Insane Location: Sage's bed	I think the issue of trusting or not trusting the gf/wife/whatever is not the main point that innovis is trying to get to. Obviously nobody "owns" their significant other, and I don't think he's trying to talk about telling him/her who he/she can or cannot hang out with. It's not about the control, as I understand it. It's about trying to tell your SO that a person who seems to really be interested in being friends is really only trying to get into your SO's pants. This is not something that people feel comfortable with seeing happen to their loved ones. I know there have been a bunch of times that Sage and I have been out together and interacted with some guy in whatever capacity (waiters, people who work somewhere, people hanging out at the comic book shop, whatever) where afterwards she thought "oh, he was nice" and I pointed out that he was quite obviously sexually attracted to her and that was the basis for his being nice. A good 90% of the time she had no idea. Let me tell you this: Ladies, guys can TELL. We KNOW what other guys are doing when they are being all nice and sweet to you in front of us. It is as obvious to us as if they were wearing a big sign around their necks. When we then tell you about it, we're just trying to point it out to you so that you know these people are not being honest and truthful. I think that's really what it comes down to, we love you enough to be offended when someone is relating to you in a dishonest way. It doesn't have anything to do with controlling you or a lack of trust. It would be just like if some sleazy door-to-door salesman was trying to sell our elderly parents something they obviously didn't need, but they thought he was so nice that they invited him in for coffee. We can tell when people are trying to take advantage of you, and we want you to know it so that you can be on the lookout for it yourselves. __________________ Anamnesis

02-12-2006, 11:49 AM	#22 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	It is all about trust though.. You boys might think you know what the other boys are thinking... but it still comes down to trust... If she respects you... and it's really not a matter of love at all.. then she is not going to notice the other person's attention... and just think that he's nice... If she falls 'prey' to his niceness-- well - she was never yours to begin with... People can only do to you what you allow them to do... Unless she's tied down and sedated - she's not being taken advantage of... By pointing it out-- it comes across as not trusting... You have to trust her to do the right thing... __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

02-04-2006, 04:22 AM	#2 (permalink)
calvin88 Tilted Location: socal	i totally agree with innovis in that some girls are just blind to how guys try to befriend them just to get closer. Many times had my ex been like o yea I met this guy but he just wants to be friends blah blah blah. And we had not broken up for like any time at all and she tells me that those same guys asked her out on dates. Which makes me totally wonder exactly what kind of friends they had intended on being if we hadn't broken up in the first place.

02-04-2006, 07:39 AM	#3 (permalink)
cellophanedeity Heliotrope Location: A warm room	If a guy I dated didn't want me hanging out with, or even innocently flirting with old friends, I'd break up with him. If I can't flirt with my male friends, why would it be okay to flirt and hang around with my female friends? I'm just as likely to want to sleep with them. I have little patience for guys who think I'm going to go around sleeping with other people even though I tell them that I won't. I expect trust. Why date someone that you can't trust with other "potential mates?"

02-05-2006, 12:23 AM	#8 (permalink)
innovis Crazy	I can't believe that most of the responses in this thread essentially advocate not telling your partner how you feel (because that was what the majority of my question was, not a question of trust, which I even stated). What is the point of being in a relationship with someone if you can't even talk about how you feel with them?

02-05-2006, 09:36 PM	#12 (permalink)
Diuretica Upright	I have the same sort of problem with my gf, etc. and I do realize that it is a problem of trust. The thing is, attraction is something foreign to me in terms of a women's perspective, as in I don't understand how a woman seperates her view of a bf versus her view of a good friend that's a boy. I don't understand what makes for example me a romantic interest and some other guy a non-romantic interest. And it's this uncertainty that makes it hard for me to not be paranoid or a little bit jealous at the smallest things. I just simply don't know when my gf might be attracted to another guy that's not me because I don't know the criteria for attraction. Anyways, this post was probably immensely confusing, but any advice?

02-06-2006, 04:58 AM	#13 (permalink)
fat-tony Upright Location: Saskatoon, SK	I once read somewhere that the things that they are most insecure about with their partners are the things that they are insecure with themselves (aka Takes one to know one). Even when I'm in a relationship, I do tend to have at least a little bit of attraction to my female friends. I think (hope) it's natural. I mean, they're of the opposite sex and I like them, otherwise I wouldn't be friends with them. This isn't to say that I want to jump all my female friends, but rather that there's obviously compatibility there. Also, if one of those friends happens to be attractive, well, you can't really just "turn off" the noticing gear in your head . Assuming that I'm somewhat normal feeling like this, it's no wonder guys can get insecure about this. It's got to freak them the hell out that a) they know other guys think the same things, and that either b) the girlfriend is completely oblivious to this, or c) the girlfriend is quite aware of this and is actually attracted to them but keeps it on the down low. I try my best not to worry about it though, because no matter what there's nothing I can do to control the situation. The best I can do is try to not worry about it, because that's just the way things are.

02-12-2006, 03:15 AM	#17 (permalink)
analog Banned	Trust your girlfriend/wife. Let her know that you trust her. Let her also know that you see x, y, and z.. and not because you're the boyfriend or husband, but because you're on Team Guy. You know how it works- as sleazy and horrible it is to be scamming on another guy's girl, you at least know how it looks and feels. You know she'd never do anything, but you're concerned with the friendship motives of a guy whose goals are so obvious to you. Make sure you leave room for her to insist nothing of the sort is going on, that he's "just a friend" or "harmless"- because 99% of the time she will. She's going to see it as you being territotial, or needy, or implying some extra form of "ownership", or (at its base) that you simply don't trust her. Trust is paramount- respect trust, and you respect her. And ladies- if your boyfriend/husband tells you he's convinced a male friend of yours is trying to get close to you, scamming you, PLEASE AT LEAST LISTEN. All the trust in the world doesn't matter when the guy has motives other than just being friends. If his motives are anything more than friendship, then he has no respect for you, your boyfriend/husband, or your relationship- and that's no kind of friend to have.

02-12-2006, 08:44 AM	#19 (permalink)
blade02 Insane	Im not one of the "enlightend" ones on here, so here's my take on it. Yes you have to trust your SO but you dont have to trust her friends. If some guy is scamming your girl. Its not between you and your girlfriend. Its between you and the guy. If he really wants to be JUST friends, he shouldn't mind hanging out with her and YOU. Thats your opportunity to take him off to the side and let him know how things work in your world. I say this, because other than in class or work situations, I have never wanted to be "just friends" with a girl, and I find it very unlikely than any guy truely does. He might settle for just friends, but Im willing to bet that most likely he has more objectives than that. This all only applies to "new guys" if hes a childhood friend, then theres not much you can do about it but tolerate it.

02-12-2006, 12:54 PM	#23 (permalink)
blar Insane	you really have no other choice but to trust her it is true that there are guys that will get into her pants or you can to dwell into the whether guys and girl can be friends debate........but that’s another topic. you can't force her not the hang out with people she knows

02-12-2006, 01:44 PM	#24 (permalink)
blade02 Insane	I think its a huge double standard. Every girl I've been with has always harped on my "concern for the relationship". Apparently, that only applies to actions that I do. If I act like a jerk..."i dont care about us", but if I try to stop some guy from breaking the two of us up, does it count as caring? Nope. It counts as "not being trusting". Im tired of girls that always play the "if you trust me..." or "if you love me...." or a million of the other "if you _____ me...." cards. If a girl is worth a damn, she wont interact with people who are trying to kill the relationship.

02-12-2006, 02:20 PM	#25 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	If you have to prevent her from hanging out with such people - you don't have much of a relationship... it should be her choice... __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

02-12-2006, 03:35 PM	#26 (permalink)
Martel Insane Location: Sage's bed	I think you guys are missing the point. We're not talking about being afraid she is going to break up with us and start screwing this other dude. We're not saying we're afraid something IS going to happen, we're saying we'd like to be able to talk to our SOs and tell them "here is what this guy is trying to do" without people second guessing our trust or security. If I tell my mom that Amway is really a scam even though they seem really nice, that doesn't mean I don't trust my mom, that means I want to make sure my mom is fully aware of their intentions before talking to them any more. __________________ Anamnesis

02-12-2006, 03:36 PM	#27 (permalink)
Sage hoarding all the big girl panties since 2005 Location: North side	I think Mal hit it on the head- as a woman, I would hope another woman in a comitted relationship wouldn't be stupid enough to hump another guy just because he was nice to her. Like, at what point does he stop being friendly and cross over into "potential amateur gynocologist"? Are the clothes on or off at that point? I think if you're relationship is seeing your SO, be it man or woman, spending a significant portion of their time with a member of the oppsite sex and you're not there- there's a problem. Unless you've sat down, talked about it, and there's a reason for it (he's gay, she's asexual, they've been best friends since they were two), there's a problem. My two cents as a woman. __________________ Sage knows our mythic history, King Arthur's and Sir Caradoc's She answers hard acrostics, has a pretty taste for paradox She quotes in elegiacs all the crimes of Heliogabalus In conics she can floor peculiarities parabolous -C'hi

02-12-2006, 03:41 PM	#28 (permalink)
ZeRoGRaViTY Upright Location: Rochester, NY	LoL Male and cello. If a guy feels a certain way and feels uncomfortable with the fact that you are flirting or hanging out with another guy, regardless of how you know this individual, and you just break up with him? WOW. Understood that everyone is their own person and yes, no one does own ANYONE else. But, for someone to just disregard there bf/fiance/husband's feelings like that?. To me that is shallow. But then again if a girl would break up with me over how I felt deep down inside, then they were no good for me to begin with. I had a girlfriend who did have alot of guys friends and she told me this from the beginning. I was ok with it because I also hung out with these guys and all in all, they were pretty cool people. It doesn't mean it didn't bother me deep down and I wish it wasn't that way. Her excuse (yes, she did even give me an excuse on her own for having so many "guy" friends) was she didn't get along with girls that well. I am sure I am not the only guy in this world that has heard that excuse. Now on the other hand, if a guy has alot of girlfriends it is a totally different story in most cases. I am not generalizing females and males by any means btw. I am just speaking from my personal experiences. (Trust me, I have had a few Shut it TC lol.) Woman have had to do more or less, undercover work to make themselves feel better about the relationship her BF has with another female. This research can span anywhere from befriended this female, to keeping their senses on high alert at all times. (Guys know your tricks. We just don't say anything cause then you make new tricks, and we have to wait another 10 years to figure the new ones out.) Regardless, I am not bashing any gender or relationship. I am just speaking from my life and WIIDDE aray of gf's that i have had. I just believe while everyone is their own individual and CAN do what they want, people just have to have a certain amount of respect for one another and how eachother feels. Openness and comunication key. BTW the one gf that I was speaking of above is now dating a friend that WE used to hang out with on a regular basis. Last edited by ZeRoGRaViTY; 02-12-2006 at 03:45 PM..

02-16-2006, 05:28 PM	#32 (permalink)
:::OshnSoul::: Guest	I know what you are feeling. But then- much of the advice of trusting is good. For some reason I have had a hard time trusting my SO- and I am trying to ask myself why. If you do, however, feel uncomfortable with it, I know it can be hard to dismiss. It's like that ugly knot in your stomach you get when something doesn't feel right to you. It IS possible to bring up with her, but you have to do it effectively so that she will not feel offended or think that you are not trusting her. I'd say- give it a little more time. Analyze it with positive questions as to why you feel the way you do and why she may be acting this way. If that knot is still there, be delicate with discussing it. What a friend told me is to steer clear of using "feelings" and say something along the lines of "this doesn't really work for me. It is hurting me and makes me uncomfortable. You can make the choices you wish......and with the choices you make, I will then need to look at my choices........." No feelings, no ultimatum, no accusations. I am still working on this..........here is a method I am actually going to take the time to do tonight: -write down any negative questions and thoughts........read them over ONCE......... -meditate on this, only turning them into positive questions and thoughts- approx. 20 min. -take the negative things I wrote and toss them into the fire.......ONE by ONE. (if you can't burn them, tear them up) This is a release for me and I believe that in doing this, I can give myself a subconcious boost in letting go. Because I know- I want to have a working relationship. A part of me has been scared that if I put full trust in someone, that it will get broken. I don't want to become vulnerable. But at the same time, in my actions, words, or just the feeling of not trusting him- it shows. And that can tear us apart, as he would withdraw. SO- honestly- do your part. You can't just whine and moan and want the other person to change- it all starts with you.

02-17-2006, 05:58 PM	#35 (permalink)
:::OshnSoul::: Guest	^^^^ haha I like your specific example there.......... but I know what you are saying. I don't mind him having female friends- as long as it's not him hanging out with just them instead of me........