Willravel

I like forgiving people when they change. I also like to be forgiven when I learn from something. It's about becoming a better person. I don't really mean to mess up, but I do from time to time as most do. I always make it a point, though, to try and learn from my mistakes and poor behavior so that I can improve as a person.

Not everyone does this, though. Some people do bad things knowing full well what they're doing and are not repentant after. They do what they do or say what they say and have no qualms about how what they've done is destructive in some way. There's no remorse, and they're likely to do it again. This can be common in children who are still learning societal and moral norms, of course, and they can be forgiven because of their ignorance, but what an adult who understands a basic right and wrong construct and still breaches this for some selfish reason is willfully being a bad person.

Should someone who willfully does harm by word or deed be forgiven if they are not repentant?

Today my dad and I got into a little fight over the phone about something inconsequential and I found myself suddenly back at age 16. There was a particular incident where I had to do a stress test for my heart by running for a long time on a treadmill. This often meant 45 minutes of walking to running for me, and left me absolutely exhausted. Unfortunately, we had a minor fight in the car drive on the way to the stress test. We got into the waiting room, I was called back, I ran for 45 minutes, and when I came out my father was gone. He had decided that if I was old enough to argue with him, I was old enough to find my way home. What he forgot to take into account , or possibly something he was aware of, was that because I was running, I didn't bring my cell phone or wallet. I was stranded, exhausted and virtually incapable of walking the 20 or so miles home. I did end up walking home (and found out that you can't call cell phones collect, which meant I couldn't contact any of my friends), but it took me many hours and by the time I got home it was the middle of the night and I had severely pulled muscles in my legs and was severely dehydrated.

This is one of those things I simply can't bring myself to forgive. I discussed it with him later, and he was and continues to be sure that he did the right thing, which baffles me.

ring

Being able to forgive does not entail condoning someones behavior.
Some have a difficult time seperating the two.
Ultimately, being able to forgive is something we do for our own peace of
mind, a healthy dose of selfishness it has been callled.

Willravel

Maybe I should make this more general and ask what forgiveness means to you. For me it's a "I see that you've realized you made a mistake and, whether begrudgingly or not, have made amends of some kind". It's a recognition of a restoration of peace and understanding between two people.

Jinn

Forgiveness means nothing more to me than "I'm not going to let your previous actions upset me anymore." As far as I'm concerned, I don't need to tell a person when or if I've forgiven them. I just make a mental decision to not let it bother me anymore. Forgiveness is for me, not them.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

Willravel

But if they show no remorse, then there's a chance that you may fall victim to what they have done again. For example: I don't let my dad drive me anywhere anymore, and I always have my wallet and cell on me no matter what. Had he apologized or shown me that he was sorry for doing that to me, I wouldn't have to think twice when he offered to drive. Maybe what I mean is that to me forgiveness is about trust, too. I trust that in the future you'll try to correct your actions. Without that trust being rebuilt, the wound is open.

The_Jazz

will, this is interesting. I think I see two separate issues here, forgiveness and trust, and I believe that their are mutually exclusive.

Forgiveness is, as JinnKai put it so well, an internal decision not to allow an individual's past sins bother you. I'm clearly no expert on Christianity, but it seems to me that Christian forgiveness exists entirely as hindsight.

Trust is something completely different. You may have forgiven the sinner but that doesn't mean that you have to trust them not to commit the sin again. The anecdote with your father I think highlights this difference very nicely in that you don't have to trust him not to leave you stranded again, but you can forgive him for the one offense. You are a prudent person, so you are ready to find yourself having to arrange your own transportation if he decides to teach you another leason.

I have more to this, but I can't seem to get it to flow at the moment...

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Willravel

I've never considered forgiveness and trust to be exclusive ideas. I'm reminded of Ghandi on his deathbed, forgiving his assassin. I always interpreted this as a combination of 1) religious (mumbo jumbo, from my perspective) and 2) an act of example for the purpose of teaching non-violence, simply seeing those two ideas as something that overrode the trust issue (he wouldn't trust the asshole not to try and assassinate him again, obviously). It was the ultimate example of not seeking retribution. But looking at it through the lens of forgiveness and trust being separate, the sentiment takes on a different meaning.

I'm going to have to think about this.

Plan9

Forgiveness isn't about him, it's about you.

I learned this from my divorce.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

telekinetic

You're confusing forgive and forget. Forgive means you internally are no longer wasting emotional energy harboring ill will against someone who has wronged you. It's not worth your time, and it's not healthy.

However, at the same time, if your dad is unrepentant, by all means, forgiveness does not require you make yourself vulnerable to repeat behavoir. Putting yourself in the same situation and expecting different results is called insanity, not forgiveness.

__________________
twisted no more

Infinite_Loser

As per the Bible, forgive and move on. That doesn't mean you have to trust the other person and be buddy-buddy with them, but it does mean not becoming vindictive.

Discussion over. Move along, people. Nothing else to see here

__________________
I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me.

telekinetic

Ah yes, how silly of us to not consult the Bible first, as all members of this forum (and really, the world in general) view it as the final unquestionable authority to solve all of lifes questions and problems. How could we have forgotten.

Thanks to this post, we have seen the light, and now that this thread contains Infinite Loser's interpretation of the Holy Word of God, truly, no further discussion is needed.

__________________
twisted no more

Bossnass

It is also an issue of if 'forgiveness' is required. It is very subjective and 'remorseless, willful' behavior may only be an issue to the offended. I'm certain that I've done and said things that have offended and hurt other people. Even if my actions have resulted in worse outcomes than I anticipated, I'm not looking to be forgiven and won't show remorse. The issue is in the mind of the offended.

I've known for a long time that my dad is fallible. I also know that I've inherited most my intelligence from him and that he has an insurmountable lead in life experiences and wisdom. Kudos to willravel Sr. Apparently this lesson stuck, albeit not in the manner intended.

roachboy

i can understand how something like this can happen, will...
sooner or later, you let go of it.

if my experience is any guide (who knows?) it can come down to choosing to maintain a relationship with your father because there are reasons to want to as opposed to not maintaining one. which is not easy because we carry around lizard-brain level reactions to things long ago, and sometimes spice things up by finding ways to map these lizard-brain responses onto more recent situations.

so it seems to me that you have to let go of the child's conception (from you as a child, i mean) of your father first and see him for what he was--and is--which is someone like yourself muddling along doing some things that were cool, fucking up other things and seeing it, fucking up yet other things and not seeing it.
at least that way it's easier to see things and not replace them with projections.

i tried to do this, but i dont remember it happening all at once: i think i decided that i was going to do something like this a bunch of times and thought each time that i did it, and maybe i did, it's hard to know.

and this doesn't mean at all that family will suddenly no longer piss you off. o no. it just gives you more choices in what you eventually decide to do when it happens.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

The_Jazz

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Ustwo

Sometimes there is a quantum shift in the Universe, particles which should never line up in such a way do, defying tremendous odds in probability. One of those times was when life arose from a jumble of chemicals.

This is another one of those times.

I agree with roachboy and couldn't have said it better.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Infinite_Loser

Worry not, for you are forgiven

*Sigh*

I'm going to have to remind myself that humor doesn't go over well on the internet. Next time I'll use the 'subtle humor' tags when posting. Apparently us Christians aren't the only 'uptight' folks in the world .

__________________
I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me.

telekinetic

ROFL. You sir, win the internet for today.

And Infinite Loser, I ask your forgiveness for making my point sarcastically, rather than directly. We are in agreement in substance. Forgive always, but don't forget unless there's a good reason.

__________________
twisted no more

blktour

I think it is a big deal to you because it is your father. Like others said above. If you feel that you do not need to hold a grudge and you can let it go, then forgive it. water under the bridge. to a stranger who had done that to me, I would think twice about it also. I just think that it hits closer to home since the person we speak of is your father.

If a coworker yelled at me, and hated me, I wouldnt care.
If my girlfriend yelled at me, and hated me, then i would try to work it out.
if my father yelled at me and hated me, i would try harder than the GF.
that is just my relationship with my dad. I love the man, and knowing him, he would have a reason. I would talk to him, and see how we could come to an understanding, and then work from there. I wouldnt hold a grudge.

you will not be able to change your fathers decision, of why he did it, and how he feels about it. just let it go and be happy that you have a great father, (I would hope he is. ) and that he made a mistake in your eyes, but you could forgive him.

jewels

There is no remorse when one feels he's right. You think he's being selfish?

I understand being in pain, you might feel that way. But he's still your father. Can you see his side and not necessarily agree with him? Again, I'm not saying he was right, but he must have perceived your arguing with him as sassing or talking back. As a father, he must have felt disrespected and meted out the punishment. Why should he repent? It's his job to teach you to respect.

Back at the age of 16? Does that mean he baited and you bit? With age comes wisdom and here's my dime, take it or leave it. This is why he feels sure he did the right thing; you talked back, he's teaching you that it's wrong. You fall back to childhood, he falls back to fatherhood.

I don't know if you still live in his house but somehow I doubt that. If you did, then hell yeah, he's the boss. But you're old enough to catch him in the right mood and let him know you're an adult and don't need disciplining anymore. You're an adult, dammit, and you should be able to disagree with him.

If he can't be rational and discuss the subject to your liking, then you may be down to what I call "keeping things pleasant". This means you don't talk about anything of substance or anything that could potentially wreak havoc on his set and tender psyche.

I've forgiven my mom for some really shitty parenting and although conversing with her can still be difficult, I let EVERYTHING that she says that annoys me, is wrong and normally would be bait, go by. I don't know when she's going to die and I know that whenever she does, I want her to pass knowing that I loved her despite her faults and that I can move on in peace when she does. For me, that's become more important than being right.

Willravel

I don't know how selfishness enters the equation. He allowed his anger to be channelled into his choice of punishments, and it pissed me off because I saw it as needlessly excessive and borderline abusive. I brought it up later, and he excused his actions as appropriate. I disagree.
Can I see leaving my son in such a situation? Honestly, no. While I recognize that punishment is sometimes necessary, there are no instances in which abuse is appropriate.
And had he chosen to teach me a lesson by shooting me in the face? Are all punishments excused by them being a part of a lesson?

I'm afraid this is getting a bit off track. What I was hoping was to have other people discuss their stuff and their opinions.

ratbastid

True forgiveness, as has been said, has nothing to do with them and what they will or won't do in the future. Forgiveness is possibly the purest act of generosity a human being is capable of.

The root of "forgive" is "fore-give"--to give them back how it was before. It means YOU giving up the right to hold whatever it is against them ever again--not because they deserve it, or you're convinced they're sorry, or they've learned anything, or you believe anything in particular about their future behavior. You'd only do that if you were sick and tired of the cost ON YOU of continuing to hold it against them. It costs you BIG (and I don't mean just Will, but I do mean Will).

We're weird, us human beings. We try to kill others by swallowing the poison ourselves.

jewels

Does this feel better?

Your definition sounds like a pact between two feuding countries.

It's not about right or wrong. Forgiveness is a willingness to love despite another's flaws, letting go of all hatred and anger.

Willravel

So then I guess the question is: what's worth more to me, letting it go or keeping it?

That's a toughie. I'll admit that the idea of simply letting it go doesn't seem just, but at the same time, harboring frustrations also aren't just. I'll talk to him about it tomorrow. Then I'll leave him at the doctor's office.

jewels

That's the spirit!

Scary but I think I'm starting to understand how that brilliant brain of yours functions.

Now I can sleep in peace. Give the ol' man a hug for me in the morning, would you please?

ratbastid

The question to ask yourself--if you're really interested in getting honest with yourself about this, which most human beings frankly aren't--is this: what is it REALLY costing you to continue holding this against him. What does it cost to have this view of him? What view of yourself do you have to have in order to maintain that view of him?

Seriously, when we get truly in touch with what this sort of thing costs us, it's devastating. And we numb ourselves to it because it's so devastating. There's a thick layer of denial and willful ignorance over top of that pain. But it's there. And you're trading that pain for the pleasure of continuing to be right, and you have been since you were 16. So, yay for being right, I guess...

You're not a bad person for doing that, btw. We all do that. It takes an exceptional person to be willing to look at it honestly and confront what it takes to put it down, so I want you to know, I'm impressed and proud of you for having gotten this far with it.

Willravel

(Warning, the following is somewhat personal. If you're not comfortable with personal stuff, no worries, there's a fun thread in nonsense called Name that Animal)
It's frustrating, sure. I do want to say it doesn't have anything to do with me being right, though. When I ask myself what I want from all of this, the answer is as simple as remorse and then the forgiveness I was talking about in the OP (forgiveness due to repentance as opposed to forgiveness to alleviate my own suffering because of the grudge). I think the biggest part of my particular instance, though, is my unwillingness to admit that the man can be a jackass from time to time, but worse still he's okay with being a jackass. It's because of that I feel that he's guilty of wronging me, and the only one to pay for it was me. I couldn't walk more than a few feet for several days after that. It was quite painful. What was more painful was the betrayal. He was responsible for me and out of spite abandoned his responsibility. Dark stuff. And yes, as said above, had it been someone other than a close family member I may have been able to just move on, but I expect some loyalty from family. What does it cost me? I don't actually think about it often, maybe once every few years, at least consciously. The cost when I do think about it is trust and respect of my father. It also makes me sad and disappointed. What view do I have of myself? I dunno. I don't begrudge many people, frankly, but when I do begrudge, I really begrudge. Honestly, though, it's really the one incident in my life where I could use the label of begrudge. I have trouble bearing a responsibility for the grudge because I still feel that I'm entitled to it and that letting it go would somehow be a passive way of accepting the harm. It could be that which prevents me letting it go.

Still, I think the best corse of action is to speak with him about it. I don't know it's naive or not, but there is a chance that it's been long enough for him to have some perspective.
Well thank you, RatBastid. That means quite a bit.

ottopilot

Without forgiveness we may unintentionally hold grudges in an attempt to fill some emotional void. A grudge can sometimes become a ponderous burden and the sickness may feed on itself like a cancer. Grudges can become a very dark force in your life.

For the longest time, I could not forgive my ex-fiance for playing house with an ex-boyfriend just before we were supposed to be married. I found out because her neighbor told me his vehicle was parked in her driveway on nights were apart. It was true. I was devastated, blindsided. The betrayals crushed me.

I could not let it go. She pleaded to come back, but I had no capacity or will to understand why she could have done something so hurtful. I was completely invested in what I thought was positive and beautiful, then for her to do what she did... well anyway.

I was consumed by it for months. It affected me negatively in visible ways, in business, mental and general health. To add insult to injury, she had taken two antique chairs (that my mother had given us) out of my house while I was at work. I was contemplating pressing charges for the chairs and suing her because of financial issues that came from preparing our future home. I demanded the engagement ring back on a weekly basis. I churned and obsessed on the betrayal over and over.

But somehow, I was able to finally see how destructive my grudge was. Somehow I just let it go. I called her and apologized for my anger. I told her to keep the ring, the chairs, and that I wished her the best of luck. She broke down and told me she had done this before with another guy. She had feelings of panic the closer we came to the wedding date. She has other old boyfriends she goes to as well when she can't deal. Yikes.

I was very sad for her, us, the whole thing. But I felt this huge weight fall off of me. Warts and back pain disappeared...seriously! It was probably the most destructive time of my life. No grudge is worth that much destruction.

I'm obviously much better off now... blessed with a wonderful wife and child. A pretty good life.

Sorry... a little heavy, but this topic pushed a few buttons with me.

__________________
"It rubs the lotion on Buffy, Jodi and Mr. French's skin" - Uncle Bill from Buffalo

ratbastid

Yeah, look, if you go into that conversation needing something to be different over there, you're setting yourself up for another disappointment.

Forgiveness comes from you for no reason. And it makes a difference over there, but MOSTLY it makes a difference for you. This is what I'm saying: don't forgive him because he deserves it--you'll waste your whole life looking for the right piece of evidence to decide whether he does or not. Forgive him because of what it will mean in YOUR life to forgive him. It's an opportunity to be bigger than that childish piece of all of us that wants to foster and nurture our hurt.

Your position about his wrongness backs him into a very defensive spot where his only choice is to keep being right about what he did. The thing to get here is that you each have a point of view, and both of them are valid, and neither of them is The Truth. He's got no room to even hear your point of view as long as you have your point of view as The Truth.

You're still not in touch with what it costs you to be holding on to this, by the way. Honest to god, you've swallowed the poison, and now you're waiting for him to die. If nothing else, think of this: he won't be alive forever, and neither will you. You sure you want to spend the time you both have on the planet nurturing your hurt in your relationship with him?

Charlatan

This is a very good observation.

I can say without question, that you do not want waste time. I had many unresolved issues with my father. I figured I would get around to addressing them. Then he was dead and I was left with a lot of unresolved issues.

Trust me. Let it go. You do not need to carry this kind of junk around with you. And be very clear that it is, as others have suggested, all about you.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

host

will, I think you touched on some of the observations contained in this interview:
Two years ago, my wife aired grievances going back to her childhood with her 85 year old mother. I was there, and I winced, because I had tried to discourage my wife from doing it.

Three years before their discussion, my wife had suffered a devastating stroke, impairing her right side and paralyzing her right arm. It also left her with extreme speech <a href="http://www.allina.com/ac/hearthealth.nsf/page/Aphasia_affects">aphasia</a> . It was a struggle, but my wife was determined to let her mother know the deficiencies my wife harbored related to her mother's parenting.

Her mother took it all in surprisingly well, and responding with reassurance and a lack of awareness of the treatment that made my wife feel slighted for so many years.

The talk they had brought them closer and served to help my wife give her mother the benefit of the doubt. A year, later, her mother was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. and as she neared death, my wife was still sensitive to her mother's perceived slights towards her and favoritism to my wife's siblings, which I admit, seem to be real.

I lost my mother to sudden death back in '93. and I warned my wife that soon, she would be left to complain about her mother's actions, only in hindsight, and there would be no new perceived offenses to react to. I reminded my wife that she had aired things out with her mother, and that the opportunity for more of that had passed.

Her mother's pain became acute, and during the 30 day period when she turned 88, as her death neared, she lived solely on eye dropper administered sips of water and doses of morphine ever increasing in size. My wife and her mother were remarkably close during those days, and her last words to me were imploring me to take good care of her daughter.

Now, my wife's father's alzheimer's symptoms are increasing, and when she is put off by something he says or does and complains about it to me, I remind her that the phase in both of our lives where we have good and disappointing encounters with our parents, are nearly over. Three months ago, we has the chance to visit my father for the first time in 2 years. I remember him at my mother's funeral, he reminded me of the way I observed his father, my grandfather to be, at his' wife's funeral, after she died suddenly on christmas day, in 1972. I remember my grandfather had a rubber band tied to the stems of his eyeglasses, where they looped over his ears, running across the back of his head, to help keep the glasses from falling off.

21 years apart, both my father and grandfather seemed so similar, so much smaller and vulnerable than they looked in my mind's eye. Both had been my heroes, my grandfather, probably until that day, and my father, until he took to using his belt on me first, and asking questions later, if at all, from the time I turned nine or ten, until I was well along in high school. I had three younger sisters, and whenever they complained that I harassed them, my parents took their word over mine.

I wanted to be a much better dad to my son than I thought my father ever was to me. My son is grown and on his own, now. I can't say I did the best I could, but he knows and appreciated that I was there for him. We're close. It's a tough world, and the time we have here is uncertain, unknown to any of us.

Your father gave you your independence when he left that doctor's office without you. You posted that you did not fully rely on him for a ride, "there and back". again, after what happened. You posted that you always had your wallet and phone with you, since then. There was a cost to your father, because you were never as close after, you regarded him differently. You've been stronger and more independent since, but not as strong as you could have been, all this time, if you could have just let it go...looked at what you gained from it vs. what it cost both of you, in terms of your former degree of closeness.

My youngest sister had a congenital heart problem, a hole in a "wall" separating the chambers of her heart. Misdiagnosed as a terminal, inoperable condition when she was 2 years old, she did not "turn blue" as her doctors expected, but she failed to grow or to have an appetite and gain weight. Her health monopolized my parents priorities and attention. They were so protective of her that, even though her heart problem was operated on successfully, when she was 11, she lived in a protective "cocoon" made from my parents concerns for her. Only parents in such a situation know how and what they are reacting to and compensating for.

You also can only speculate about your father's concerns that your own perception of your medical condition, at age 16, could impede your development towards what his expectations were about when and how you would arrive at being completely self reliant. You could even ask him if that was part of his decision that day and his attitude about it since. It could give him an out....and you one, too!

Willravel

Jesus, host, that's great (same with others too, especially rat). This thread has given me a ton to think about. I've got a lot of it sorted, and I'll post tomorrow when my eyes aren't crossing.

TFP is a truly wonderful place.

Elphaba

Will, I valued my father for the good that he brought to me and I haven't forgotten those times when he was so, so wrong in his treatment of his family. He didn't "abandon" me in the acutely literal way that your father did, but there are other forms of being left behind.

You father sounds like a stubborn man, and not likely to apologize for any action he has taken that he thought best. I don't know if I have characterized him accurately, but I suspect you know that you can't change the core beliefs of a man. You are a kinder, more thoughtful man than your father and you wish him to be better than he is. As others have already said in much better ways, it is not necessary to forget or forgive. It is necessary to accept your father for what he is. Does that make sense?

__________________
"You can't ignore politics, no matter how much you'd like to." Molly Ivins - 1944-2007

Mantus

Forgiving is an act of understanding for me. To know a person is to trust a person. It's about being able to predict behavior from people.

When I don't understand a motive behind an offending action it puts a strain on me. It keeps me wondering what other surprises might come along. I can't trust that kind of individual. Which creates distance between us.

My father is like that. I don't get him. I can't predict his responses. So I don't trust him. So I shut him out of my life to a large degree. I still love him. I keep him close but far away if you know what I mean.

Food for though.

analog

Forgiving vs. "forgetting".

I'll forgive a lot of things. I'll not only forgive, but also "forget" (put out of my mind, not bring it back up again or let it factor into future things). I suppose the "forgetting" is about trust. By forgetting they did it, and pretending (as such) that it never happened, you're essentially trusting them not to do it again, and their character, in your eyes, will remain untainted.

However... for me personally, I'll forgive practically anything. Even those things I don't forgive immediately, I eventually do. The worst thing I ever held onto was 2 years, but since that, I've not held onto anything for more than a few months (and it was really bad).

Whether or not I "forget it", and let things be, is another story. I know a person right now who has been forgiven of doing something pretty heinous, but I won't associate with him anymore. I won't forget it and I won't, essentially, trust him anymore not to do stupid shit like that again.

So for me, forgiveness is not really the issue... it's whether or not I dismiss what's happened, or keep it in mind. If someone did something purposefully, that's definitely much less likely to be forgotten. I mean, it was willful, there's really nothing to "forget"... they did it on purpose, knowing it was wrong. Trust does not get extended to a person, in the future, who does that.

Ourcrazymodern?

Your father
was quite probably
helping you.

__________________
BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

DaveOrion

His father was an ass who left him stranded. If he walks 20 miles will he then be a better person, learn some valuable lesson??? Sounds like my dad (God rest his soul....blah blah blah....)

You can forgive but its oh so much harder to forget. Forgive him for your sake will......

__________________
Syriana...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...

roachboy

i understand your consternation, ustwo.
i had the sense that the continuum had buckled for a moment when i read your post.
i expect that i will be unable to find socks when i go look for them.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Ourcrazymodern?

My father could not, or would not, hold a job, because, rumor has it, he was too fond of booze. He abandoned me to the care of a step-father who seemed never too fond of me. I conceived of a desire to know my father better when I started college; where he lived was on the way, asitwere. This lasted for a number of years, then he ended up in jail for molesting children and ended up dying in a state hospital...

On the brighter side, I gave my younger son my step-dad's middle name, to show him (and perhaps myself) that I had grown to appreciate his input.
When I told him so, he said, "I always hated that name.", and we shared a good chuckle.

Life beats the alternative.

Try not to waste it, willravel!

__________________
BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

tiger777

Well said. Judging by this case it sounds like your father has some pride and ego issues. He wasn't able to overcome these negative feelings and so he took it out on you, and wrongly so. I wouldn't be able to forget something like this, I just feel it's really childish of him to behave like that and it really exhibits some character flaws. Having said that I'd forgive him for it what else can you do? It's unfortunate he wasn't able to overcome his desire to get back at you, but what's done is done. If he won't apologize for it then that's unfortunate but I guess he just has a lot of emotional/mental issues and you had to suffer for it. I would try to look at the bigger picture, the bigger picture being, for his own selfish reasons he did what he did. I don't think he specifically was out to get you he simply doesn't know any better. After all if you leave 100 dollars on your porch you can't blame a thief for stealing it, for that is his nature.

I think the best way to handle the situation is simply to tell him how hurt and upset you are over this, if you decide to talk to him about it. Just tell him you felt betrayed and that you forgive him but you won't ever forget about it. Maybe in the future he will act a bit better in similar situations if you let him know how badly this action afflicted your mind state.