dawnoffawn

Hello all,
Some of you may be familiar with my issue that i'm a divorced mother with a 2.5 yr old. And that he's very aggressive.
Well, today he got really hystercial once we told him that his father is coming to take him today.
My son was just home from being outside and he loves being outside and loves his grandpa. Anyway, he started crying and pleading to stay outside.
We told him that his father is coming and will take him outside so he's got to come inside and get dressed so he can go outside with his father. He started screaming and breaking down and crying so hard that he was having trouble breathing (you know when you cry so much and you start crying and breathing hard at the same time? I've always had that as a kid). He was uncontrallable. I couldn't even get a hold of him to carry him and so I tried and got a hold of him while he's trying to break free and screaming.
So, when his father came I told him that he refuses to go out to him. The father told me to get him so I got him after catching him while he was screaming and once he saw his father he ran to his car without even looking at his father. his father told him to come next to him and he did it dutifully (he's so afraid of his father). then he demanded a kiss from his him and he gave it willingly (notice h'es not the type that listen so it seems he's afraid of his father..he always was).
So, his father otld him to go inside and let me dress him so he went inside but refused to be changed and ran after his grandpa and demanded to go out and his grandpa was heading him to the direction of his father and he's refuse to go in his fathe'r direction and kept going the opposite side, showing that he doesn't want to go to his father.

We asked his father why he’s afraid of him and he kept on getting defensive and saying that he’s in a hurry and doesn’t have time. So, we told him if he doesn’t have time, why are you taking your son? We asked him where he takes him and he refused to answer and said that it’s not our business where he goes and who he sees. Is this true?
Please, what should I do? This ex is so hard to deal with. I cannot get two words of sense spoken out of him and part of my son’s life is clueless to me (the part when he’s with his father)…and I need to know in order to see why he’s behaving this way and why he’s afraid of his father.
Do I have a right to know where his father takes him and who he sees and interacts with?
I’m really upset right now and do not know who to turn to
Thanks for any help and please forgive me for all my complaining.

shakran

get a lawyer, and get the custody agreement ammended so that your ex husband does not have unsupervised custody of the child. Something is going on. It is not normal for a child to be terrified of his father.

Willravel

It can be normal for a 2.5 year old boy to be afrai of his father, actually. I say this beacuse even though my dad is a gentel giant, I was afraid of him until I was 6 or 7 years old. My dad never yelled or layed a finger on me.

I would suggest careful monitoring of the situation. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst seems appropriate. When you and your ex were together, did he ever threaten to or strike you? Did he show agressive behavior? Did you have tape on your phone because he threw it across the room in a rage? If so, then it is a good idea to watch for any kind of marks on your baby boy. Black and blue marks in specific areas (not on knees or elbows) can be a sign of some sort of abuse. Unfortulately, emotional abuse does not have the same obvius scaring as physical abuse.

One has to bear in mind that he is 2.5. His actions are very much based on emotions instead of logic. While you or I might see him terrified of his father, he might simply be acting up for attention or trying to pit you and your ex against each other. My 2.5 year old daughter often tries to pit mommy and daddy against each other as a form of entertainment. She also has unforseeable reactions to different situations. Sometimes she loves a bath. Other times she'll throw a tantrum to avoid a bath.

BTW, what you are doing is not complaining. What you are doing is seeking a third party opinion in a very difficult situation. Kudos for having the fortitude to ask for help.

shakran

first, just because it happened in your case, does not mean it is normal. It is NOT normal for a child to demonstrate great fear of his parent.


Other clues in her post (the father is in too much of a hurry to deal with the kid, expects mom to do EVERYTHING regarding getting the kid ready, expressed anger that the kid wasn't ready to go, etc) tell me that dad is not exactly father of the year.

I did not advise her to yank the kid (yet) I advised her to get his custody of the child supervised so that if he decides to be cruel, someone will know about it.

maleficent

DOCUMENT DOCUMENT DOCUMENT

Every incident document of your sons reactions... what condition he comes home in (ie are his clothes dirty.. etc)

and talk to your divorce lawyer...

What is in your custody agreement? Was anything there about knowing what the child did in your absence? It's unsupervised, but still --

THis doesnt sound like a friendly divorce, the kid may be playing off your emotions or his grandparents emotions..,

at his young age, how many homes has he had? that might be confusng for him and he might not always be aware that he's coming back home.

Has he been to any kind of therapy - especially for the agresssive behavior?

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Willravel

On matter in dealing with media I bow to your knowledge. Just FYI, not only do I have my degree in psychology, but my mother is among the foremost marriage and family psychologists in the US. She agrees that it is not abnormal for a child to show signs of fear towards a parent, even when that parent is not abusive in any way. While I realize I'm far from normal in any sense of the word, I have to say that this is not necessarily a sign of a problem with the father. I still advise to exercise caution and monitor the situation as closely as reasonable.

Again, if there is a history of verbal, emotional, or physical abuse that you (hundove) are aware of with your ex, then you should consider taking steps to restrict the alone time between father and son.

dawnoffawn

Hey all,
Thanks for the wonderful advice.
Thanks so much Willravel for the help and concern.
As for bruises, my son always gets bruised b/c he's so active so he has alot of marks on his hands and elbows because he's always running and tripping, so I can't really tell if it's a normal mark all kids get or a form of abuse, but I don't think that he'd abuse him. I think it's more a case of neglect and also emotional abuse or that my son feels abandoned..I don't even think he's free for him..I think he does all his errands at the time he takes my son, because many people spot my son with him (some of his customers, etc.).
His father is a stranger to him..he doesn't act with him as he does with me or his grandparents.

As for the time we were together, my ex did show fury, and he did hit me once in front of him but that was a long time ago. Think he still recalls that incident?
I do recall him once throwing stuff but it wasn't habitual or alot.
But he never hit his son around me.

Thanks, shakran, for the help and concern.
At this time, I really cannot aford a lawyer and i've had bad experiences with them. Also, I'm afraid my ex will seek revenge and try to show the exact opposite b/c he's done that alot of times. whenever we accuse or ocmplain to him of something, he starts accusing us and saying in his own words that "I will treat you the same way and hurt you" and even though we have nothing that can be seen against us, I'm not up for being "watched and observed"...it will be too defeatful for me since I already feel like I lost in this terrible divorce.

Thanks so much Maleficent, for all your help.
In my custody agreement it says that both parties have the right to know about the whereabouts of the child, but it wasn't specific enough.

My son always comes clean from his father, but it seems he's been sleeping all this time (remember my post about him sleeping when he feels abandoned?) because he stays up really late the days he comes back from his father, sometimes at 2:00 am or more.

Thanks again all.

cookmo

I'm just curious how often your 2.5 year old goes to their dad's. Is it every other weekend? Thats an awfull long time for someone so small, and maybe thats why he's apprehensive?

And YES!!!! You have a right to know where your son goes when he's with his dad. I think your entitled to atleast 1 phone call per day also? I f he can't/ won,t tell you where he's been, what we he eat's, how long he's slept, than screw him, he's not responsible enough to take him alone. You could pay someone to follow him the next time he takes him, like a detective, and find out whats going on. I also think that if he refuses your calls etc..when he has your son you can have the police go to his house and a check in, I think here it's called a welfare check. Bottom line is do whatever you have to, and don't feel guilty for bieng a witch.

maleficent

Disclaimer: I really have no idea what i'm talking about 99 percent of the time- i make guesses on what i read:

This last post of yours i noticed something- it's only pronouns... but you refer to your child as MY child... not OUR child... you also say "whenever we accuse " so that's your parents and you... It could very well be the child is confused...

The child might be picking up on that and maybe he doesnt think he belongs with his dad...

How much bonding time did his father have when you were married (he's 2 1/2) how long have you been divorced? He might just not know his father.

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Willravel

You have your son's best interest in mind. That makes you tops in my book.
Hmmm...well just the same, you might want to ask, "Did you fall?" or something every once in a while.
I see. So a combination of verbal and emotional abuse with neglect might be what we're looking at. The situation you described before could be symptomatic of what you think. The absolute best thing for him now is to get emotional and verbal consistency from you, the mom. If your ex is in some way reasonable, you might suggest talking to someone about the seperation and also raising a son without a wife (or in this case as a semi-independant parent). A 2 year old might not be ready for a psychologist, but if the problem seems to persist, then you might consider it a few years down the line.
Traumatic events can sometimes stay in memory for a lifetime. That event could have had a very negative effect on your son. I'm glad you're no longer in a dangerous situation.
Are you sure that he would never hit your son?

ngdawg

At about that age, my son would throw screaming, clinging to me fits when I took him to his weekly activity center. He and his sister had been going for a while with no problem, and suddenly he would just go ballistic and scream bloody murder the minute we walked in. Separation anxiety, but what made it worse was (and I didn't know this for 3 more years) that he had a behavioral allergy to sodium nitrates. They are found in all processed meats like bologna, bacon, etc. These caused extreme emotional response (tantrums), belligerence, unprovoked or out of synch talking and 'blanking out'.
I agree, you should document his behavior before he goes on his visits, after he comes home and take it one step further and keep a food diary as well. If his behavior is erratic, even when with you, document what he's eaten. Common food allergies can be dairy, eggs, sodium nitrates, nuts. That age, they go on food kicks where they only want one or two things. If his behavior is still what you consider unacceptable or out of the ordinary, go back, see what he ate, what his activities were, then cut out the most common food for one week. Keep track of any changes.
The ex's response to you was unnecessarily defensive; kind of sends up a flag, but then again he might have a new woman in his life and doesn't want you to know that. You're primary caregiver and it's your right to know where your son is at all times regardless.

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

Temporary_User

Im kind of curious how long you two have been divorced. How often your boy see's his son.
how long were you and your ex together?
what age are you and your ex?

really without knowing the whole story we can all only speculate. I don't think anything is too out of the norm.

I am no parent, far from it...

Of course you son loves his G-pa, in his mind (guessing) that is like his father. a male figure in his life that he can look up to.

Is this incident typical or was this just one incident?
In my opinion if this was just an isolated exp. your child was just having fun playing, and didnt want to quit and change into new clothes.
My ex gf, was a nanny of a 4 and 7 yr old. the 4 yr old boy, would get into spurts where he would argue and fight over changing his clothes. He would want to wear the same thing for mulitple days. (not that the clothes are the main thing here)

IMHO see if this happens, if he is having fun playing outside, call him in and have him come in to change and goto the store with you. see how he reacts.

dawnoffawn

Hey all,
Thanks for the wonderful help. I really appreciate it.
It's been almost a year since the separation and my son sees his father twice a week, one time for 5 hours and another time for 7 hours.

Maleficent, you were right for pointing this out. I usually let my parents deal with my ex b/c I don't want to see him and he doesn't want to see me either. So, that's why I put the "we",lol...yeah, I feel like he's MY son only, lol...because he's not a very good father figure and I don't want to feel that there's something we both share,lol.

As for his eating habits, I don't even know what he eats with his father. If he develops food poisoning, I won't even know the reason

Thanks so much, each one of you, for all the support and concern

maleficent

Disclaimer: I'm a busybody who doesnt know when to shut up...

You are tied to this man for the next 15.5 years at the very minimum because of your child. You need to figure out a way to work together, both you and him. It's not in the child's best interest if mommy and daddy can't get along. the kid just gets put in the middle and well ... that's not fair to the child.

you're not married anymore... but you are still a family... for the sake of the child, can you consider family counselling to figure out some sort of middle ground for you to work from.

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sapiens

I agree with willravel that a 2.5 year old child throwing a tantrum when he has to leave his mother isn't entirely abnormal. If there are other signs that there is something wrong, you should document everything as has been suggested. However, if you are basing you concern about your child just on this tantrum, you might want to step back a bit.

In your initial post you mention the incident below:Unless there is further salient information that you have not included, it sounds like you and your parents verbally attacked your ex-husband as he picked up your son. Your son had a temper tantrum and you and your parents imply that your ex-husband is doing something that should cause your son to fear him. As willravel and others suggested, such a tantrum may not be abnormal. Your son's behavior could be just as much a surprise to your husband as it was to you. If my child had such a tantrum in the same situation, I would be confused and hurt. If my ex-wife and former parents-in law started accusing me of doing something to my child, I would get defensive. So, some of your husband's hostile behavior in that particular situation may have been related to the way that you interact with him. (Some of it may be related to who he is as well).

This is a good point. I don't know your marital history, or the history of your son's interaction with his father. Considering that you will have to deal with your ex-husband at least until your son reaches adulthood, you need to figure out strategies to work with your husband to raise your son. Part of those strategies may need to include efforts to make the transitions to your son's time with his father as smooth as possible (even if your ex is an ass).

If you are concerned about abuse, you should definitely document and definitely take appropriate actions to ensure the safety of your son. If you don't think that abuse is occuring, you should do your best to interact with your husband in as pleasant a manner as possible (as should he, of course).

Disclaimer: I'm just giving my opinion. Take it with a grain of salt.

ngdawg

This entire post is hostile. "Not a very good father figure". Well, he wasn't a good mate, but that doesn't mean he doesn't love and enjoy his son. It took both of you to make this kid. Face it, you HAVE to share him. Your selfishness will only do a disservice to the boy.
"I don't even know what he eats with his father." That's 12 hours. I suggested YOU keep a diary, assuming you do feed him the other times.
You project a lot of anger toward this man and selfishness, admittedly, about your son, then ask why he throws tantrums....I think you have your answer.

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

sapiens

I had a similar reaction. If you express your dislike and hostility toward your husband around your son, he will pick up on it. Around your son, it might be safest to be as neutral as possible about your ex-husband.

Suzz04

I had thought about staying out of this thread but I'd like to share my experience.

When my daughter was about 4... the courts ordered that she was to spend 4 weeks with her father in the summer. Now, mind you, the order stated that the 4 weeks were to be divided up into 2 week periods. He went ahead and kept her for 2 weeks and didn't do the next set of time.

My parents and I never spoke anything ill of her father while she was around. Never displayed any negative emotions towards him either on the phone, in person, or him not even around.

Our first court order visit pick up day was a disaster. Quite literally. It was emotionally, physically, and mentally a disaster. When she left she was a happy child. The day he came to get her, she kicked, screamed, cried the whole time. My mother was unable to handle it and had to escape to the bathroom to try and not make the situation worse. Her father picked her up and forced her into the car and drove away. She was still screaming, kicking and crying. She cried every day she was with him.

Why didn't I go get her? I'm in Virginia... he lives in New York. She came back a very different child than what she was when she left. When she left, she was potty trained and had been for the past 2 years at least.

Upon returning she had nightly bedtime accidents. We tried stopping drinks by a certain hour, going to potty before bed, waking up in the middle of the night to go, as well as the training pants all over again. This went on til... sadly... this past October. She's 10 now. The doctor told me that it was a mental issue. When she stresses, she might have a accident. Not very often. We've been in the clear since October til this last week. Her father comes next week to get her for his summer visitation.

Have I explained to him that she doesn't want to go? That I have listened to her cry for the month up til he gets her that she doesn't want to go? Yes. I have told him repeatedly. I've given hints, I've done everything up til saying flat out that she doesn't want to be with him. With the exception of this year. This year I told him that she does NOT want to be going to New York this year. And I told him he wasn't goig to blame me for it and he could deal with it through her.

In two years, she'll be able to say "No I'm not going" and not be forced into it. Without going back to court, which I cannot afford right now, he is rentless and forces her to go. I'm not sure if he just doesn't care or what the deal with him is.

There is no abuse. Our daughter has a clear understanding of telling the right people for any type of abuse regardless of what they say to her to stop her from telling.

I know that she is our daughter but I have been the one to raise her. During our marriage together, he stayed gone from the home as much as possible. And after I left, he never spent any time with her til the custody issue came up and he got the summer visits. He never started to communicate with her over the phone til the month before our custody issue. Which was almost 2 years after I left him. Most of the time he calls now. There are alot of times that he has stated he forgot to call.

But, I have to agree with Mal and others.... document every thing. Every visit, every phone call, anything you can think of even if it is so silly that you'd be embarassed to write it down. Try to show a pattern in your son's and ex's behaviors from this point out. And try to stay as neutral as you can until your son is no where in hearing range or not with you two.

You did state that he hit you once. I strongly suggest you have a witness with you other than your parents. Being that the lawyers if it comes to that point will try to say along the lines that your parents would back you up and say anything.

Sorry to have posted so much.

__________________
Quantum Cat Theory:
Upon hearing the sound of a can being opened,
it becomes possible for a cat to travel faster than the speed of light.

ngdawg

One thing I notice both here and in life with divorced couples-too many of the moms(custodial parent, if you will) will harbor such hate for the ex, then say 'but I would never go against (court order/father relationship) in front of our kids.' Do you really think kids are that ignorant of all this maliciousness? Do you truly think that any child, including those not from a split relationship, won't take every opportunity to play on these feelings? The problem is, the child plays on the feelings and absorbs them as well and gets more stressed than the so-called adults.
Example: my sister in law divorced her husband and was extremely bitter, mouthy, sent letters to him cussing him out (he showed me one and I couldn't believe the venom she wrote), would badmouth the man every chance she got. But 'not in front of the kids'. But for years, her sons dreaded being with their father, badmouthed him as well and it wasn't until they became older teens that their relationship got really close. Sadly, he died last month-the boys are 17 and 18. Years wasted.
So I ask you all....is this all worth it to you? You're supposed to be the adults. Whatever happened is over with. Quite frankly, you are not the important ones here-your kids are and they are suffering because of all this bitterness between the two people they are supposed to trust the most.


/me gets off her soapbox.

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

raeanna74

There are so many variables here.

Do you discuss your ex when you are around your child? If you expess any negativity towards your ex in the hearing of your son then he will quite quickly pick up on that.

It is quite normal for a child of around 2 or 2 1/2 to go through another major separation anxiety stage. I have babysat several children from infancy and once they hit their twos they get clingy all over again and complain about mom leaving them. I think it's just another part of the terrible twos. They're developing their separate identity but yet it's frightening to them to realize they ARE actually separate from Mom.

As for looking for abuse - Look for bruises that are in the shape of a hand or fingers, on the backs, back of legs, or backs of arms. Multiple lines not small circles of bruises. Things that YOU as a mother wouldn't be able to attribute to a corner of a coffee table or something. What his reaction to a raised hand. Most kids won't flinch if you raise your hand quickly and yet don't bring it toward them. Kids who have been abused may flinch more easily.

Also ask your ex for a time when he is not in a hurry. Make an appointment to at least talk to him over the phone. You both need to communicate your routines for the sake of consistancy for your son. Not just to know what is happening with him in a nosy sort of way but to make sure that you both are in agreement in discipline and daily routine. Bedtimes, naptimes, mealtimes, and daily acitivities give a child a sense of security. If your ex and you are not following the same schedules than that can cause him more fear. Both of you need to work to make your schedules with him a little more similar. If your ex refuses to communicate that then you need to get someone to mediate that for you.

__________________
"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

dawnoffawn

Hey all,
I haven't read all the responses so bear with me.
From what i read, you think that I display my hatred towards my ex (the divorce was final some six months ago) in front of my son. I'd like to correct this. I DO hate him, but i don't display this in front of my son...I even show my son pictures of his father and taught him his name, etc...The hatred is just inside and he's the one who starts arguments. My mom was really concerned becasue we told my son that his father will come and he has to go to him and he started saying "No, with grandpa"..He doesn't want to go outside if his father will take him...We didn't instill this in him..my son just suddenly said that. I was surprised too because he usually goes willingly to his father.
The reason we told his father that my son's afriad of him is because it's true...the moment he sees him in public he leaps and does what he says..he's even afraid to cry in front of him.
Oh, and I spotted a bruise on my son's leg last night after he came form his father. It looks like a sting. Today it's swollen and has a dark bump, but it deosn't hurt him. I can't say it's abuse, but it sure looks like neglect.
If he doesn't have time for him, then he shouldn't take him...that's all we ask..he shouldn't be pressured to take his son just to "show him off" to his friends and show that h'es a good father. Plus, he always comes with a friend and take my son to public gatherings or makes his visits to friends and meetings (he even works at the times he takes my son) at the times that he takes my son.
He also never calls to check on him. Last week, we told him that my son was sick and he didn't even call to check on him. He didn't even call in his birthday.
So, h'es not exactly a good father figure but i never showed this to my son. My mom was really concerned..she even gave ihm advice on how to make his son love him instead of fear him,lol..so it wasn't an attack..but he twisted it and made it an attack. Even if we speak to him politely, he has to yell and accuse us of attacking him.
For example, I todl him today to ask his lawyer if he's supposed to tell us where he takes my son and he just said "No, I wont even ask him"..I just said "Ok, thank you..bye".
Just wanted ot clear this up and show you the whole pic.
I'll be back with more replies after reading the rest of the posts.
Thanks all.

ngdawg

It is not your mom's place to tell him how to do anything with his son; I have had unsolicited 'advice' about how to handle my kids and I have gotten defensive. Anything at this point would be perceived as an attack-the man knows he's not exactly loved by anyone in that household.
You don't have to verbalize to your son that you hate his dad-your actions and those of your parents define that, even if you think it's subtle.
All kids get clingy at that age; the animosity and 'clan' mentality just exacerbate it that much more. Change has to come from somewhere-be the bigger person and let it start with you.

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

maleficent

I'm not trying to derail your original question,or attack you at all... But... unless your parents are the child's legal guardians... your conversations with your ex are between you and him... He should tell you... Not US... it's not your parents business at all.. You might be living with them, but you are a grown woman... your parents shouldn't be fighting your battles for you.

How would you react if he came you you and said that his people (whomever that is) wanted to know exactly what went on when he wasn't around.

You and he both need to take a deep breath and figure out how to work together...

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dawnoffawn

Hey all,
Thanks for the advice.
Yes, my parents share guardianship with me and we agreed (my ex and I) that we will interact through them, so even my ex wants me to speak through them. He even once stated to me "If you got something to say to me, let your parents say it", so he asked for it.
Thanks, ngdawg, for the concern and advice.
I never badmouthed my ex (but he DID), so my hatred is not explicit, it's only in my heart and my parents know it too (but we don't speak in front of my son). The sad thing is, I don't even think that my son knows that he is his father. He was too young when we separated and even through our short-lived marriage we got separated many times and he never even came to ask about his son, so not only was he a bad mate, he wasn't much of a father.

Suzz04, I'm really sorry for what oyu went through. i'm also noticing problems with my son. We've been trying to potty training for so long and we told his father that we're potty training and that he should also train him while he's with him, but he doesn't listen or care, so until now my son isn't potty trained.
Another problem is that my ex is ALWAYS busy. Even when I call him, he starts arguing and saying that he has no time to listen...even when he takes his son, he's on the phone...he's even on the phone while putting his son in the carseat and driving him. It's no wonder his son does not like him, because he doesn't give him time.

He's also smart (in a wicked way)...he knows how to hurt emotionally and not make it look like he did it, h'es done it to me for 3 years until I left the abusive marriage (emotionally more than physically, so I couldn't even prove it).

*Nikki*

If this were my child I would have a huge issue letting him be alone with his father. This is a man who hit you and has violent tendencies. Not only that but he has really shown no interest in the well being of his child. I think you are perfectly right to be concerned about your childs fear of his father. I think that there is indeed something going on and it definately requires investigation on your part.

raeanna74

If he abused you, unless he completely changes his ways (which does not happen often unless abusers are receiving counseling help) then he WILL abuse your child. Perhaps not at this moment but it WILL happen. Talk to your lawyer. Tell him all that you fear and ask what you can do. At this point it may be hard to get custody of your son if your divorce was a no fault divorce.

The longer I read this thread the more concerned I feel that you and your son are dealing with this.

__________________
"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

Suzz04

I would be more worried about emotional and mental abuse on them right now. He sounds similiar to my ex-hubby.

Belittling tones, remarks to make you feel stupid, treating you (Hundove) as if you were 2 and have no clue.

After a period of time this kind of abuse can lead to harder problems to deal with. I just came out of my "shell" within the past 2 to 3 years. Mostly after I became medicated to help with my bi-polar. (that's a different subject) I was allowing her father to walk all over me. He would take liberties to plan his "visitations" without consulting me over the dates. We had agreed to alternative most of the other holidays. Majority of the time, he walked over me and decided what holidays he was taking and I allowed it.

Have a talk with your lawyer. Lay everything out. You need something on how your going to do holidays, summers, school, etc.

Is he going to take him every other weekend? Every weekend? Are you going to have Thanksgiving with him this year and he gets next year? Things like this aren't thought about usually til they hit you in the face. Personally, when it happened to me, I just mostly stood there like a drooling idiot and let the ex have his way.

Now, it's different. I have the courage to tell him how I feel, think, etc. He no longer tells me that it will be this day and that's that. I have had to be a downright b**ch at him to get through to him that I was no longer going to allow myself to be a doormat. We have it situated now that I only speak to him over the phone when it's necessary. That's in regards to health issues, school problems, etc.

Becoming a doormat to him, will let him believe that he can always do whatever he wants and get away with it. Use reverse pysch on your son. If you notice a bruise that you don't know how happened, try asking if he fell on the sidewalk/slide or something to that nature. When you want to ask him about his visit with Dad, lead him in asking. "Wow, I bet Dad took you to somewhere great! Where did you go? Would you like to go there again? We might take a trip."

It's all a matter of how you ask them the questions. Sneaky, yes. But sometimes kids just plain forget what they've done and need alittle nudge remembering. You'll do great. You have a world here that will try to guide you with advice that you can use how you see fit.

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Quantum Cat Theory:
Upon hearing the sound of a can being opened,
it becomes possible for a cat to travel faster than the speed of light.

dawnoffawn

Thank you, each one of you, for the tremendous support. It means so much to me.
Yes, I do feel like a doormat. My ex also comes late to his visitations and brings my son back late...he does things and doesn't consult me first.
But for holidays, we arranged it that we alternate days. For example, I have the first day, he has the seconds, and so forth.

He sees him twice a week.
I told him last time he took his son that he can't take him unless he lets me know where he's taking him (a lwayer friend told me that but said that if I do that I'd have to be willing to put up with the consequences because he might take me to court and I'd have to get an attorney to defend myself and state the reasons, etc.). When I told my ex about not taking him if he won't tell me where he's going, he said "well, take him" and by that time my son was already with him and he just drove off with him without even giving me a chance to take him! I felt so defeated.

My son is still not in the stage where he can answer questions...he has just begun to say two words togather and I feel that he doesn't remember things unless they are happening in the present. I tried to let him tell me but he just won't answer and doesn't really comprehend. He tell me that "he went in his father's car"..that's all he tells me and when I ask him "and then where did you go?" He states that he went back home (he means in my home). That's all he remembers,lol.
Thanks so much for the support, Nikki, Raeanna, Suzz, Mal, Willravel, shakran, cookmo, ngdawg, sapiens, temp user, (hope I didn't miss anyone) and everyone else who has helped. You're all awesome. Thanks.

cookmo

hundove,

I just started back to school this year and it was the first length of time I had been away from my son,who was two and a half at the time. He stays with his dad during the day while I go. I am generally a paranoid non trusting person, which isn't great, but its who I am. I was really worried about getting the truth about what they did all day, so I started asking my son non- threatining questions to "groom" him to tell me the truth on things, and jog his memory.

first I would ask him things like,"what did you have for breakfast?" about an hour after breakfast...repeat after lunch and dinner.

then it was things like, "what games did you play today?", or "what toys did you play with"

then I progressed to "what shows did you watch on t.v today?", and "where did you go today?"

finally things like "what was your favorite part of the day?"

"What was your favorite thing that we did togethor today?"

"what was the favorite thing you did with daddy today?"

I do this every day, whether I am with him all day or not, and now if I do leave him, he will tell me every thing that went on all day, and he is only three now. So I know if his dad let him watch cartoons all day, or let him have icecream for breakfast.

This gives me peace of mind, because my son is not old enough to lie to me yet....but his dad certainly is

Also, my son enjoys being able to communicate like this with us. Now he always asks me what my favorite part of the day was, and always tell him, spending time with you, of course

Sage

That's a really cute idea cookmo- you're also building up your child's vocabulary and cognitive abilities!

Isn't there some big rule about what divorced parents can and can't do with their kids after the divorce? If you're worried, just go to the DSS or to a lawyer- it's not right that your ex is treating you like a doormat. If you keep backing down, he's going to keep walking all over you and it's going to be at the direct expense of your child. Your kid is going to learn that the best way to deal with a situation is to either be such a bully everyone backs down or to let people walk all over him. Stand up to your ex- it's YOUR CHILD TOO!

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dawnoffawn

Thanks for the suggestions, Cookmo. Good luck with your son.
The problem is that he cannot comprehend such questions yet. for example, if i ask him what he ate for breakfast, he really doesn't know what breakfast, dinner is..all he knows is "food".
Also, his father doesn't answer when I call, so I can't reach him at different times when he's with his father. I'd have to ask only after he comes home.
So, when he comes back, he's forgotten everything he did.
Last time i asked him where he went with his father. I asked him "did you go to the park?" and he didn't respond even though I'm certain he either went to a picnic or another gathering where there are alot of people because his father brought food with him (for the first time).

Thanks, Sage, for the help. This guy doesn't follow rules. I can't afford to tkae him to court nad really cannot tolerate the heartache of courts after my terrible experience with them. Also, h'es a good persuader (he gets it from his sales background, lol) plus he's a lawyer himself so he knows how to use convincing tactics that will make the rule on his side.

maleficent

OK - I just can't leave well enough alone...

This is your child. Do you have a suspicion that something is going on? you need to act on that suspicion thru whatever means are available to you.

You seem to have a lot of reasons why you cant do something.

this would be a good challenge for your self esteem -and it should make it easier because you aren't doing it for yourself you are doing it for your child and trying to protect your child. Come up with a game plan as to what you can do to help your child.

Check your divorce and child custody agreements and see what he is and isn't allowed to do and find out how to make him live up to it.

You are tied to this man til the child is 18 -- you both need to figure out how to work together..

I'm super curious - in this thread http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=104809 - you said your ex got unemployment in the summer - what kind of law does he practice that he's got that arrangement?

From the threads you've posted there are issues with your son's behavior, there are issues with your ex paying support, there are issues with your relationship with your ex. You've got to start somewhere... Do you really want to spend the next 15.5 years like this?

Most lawyers will give a free consultation. I'd also google some resources that might be offered for free to you in whatever town you happen to be living in... (terms to google under, WOmen/child support/divorce/custody/etc...)

Start your list of all the issues that need addressing then prioritize it...

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abaya

Wow, what a good example of how to teach communication skills to a young boy. You are asking important questions, developing it into a daily habit, and teaching him to do the same with you. He is going to grow up very confident in being able to express himself, I believe! That's just really cool to hear that. Good job!

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

dawnoffawn

Hi, Mal.
Thanks for the help.
My ex works as a teacher and they have an option of making their payments into 10 months or 12 months, so he chose 10 months.
So, in the 2 months of summer, he takes unemployment.

Yeah, I'll see..if I spot anything with my son, i'm gonna prevent him from seeing him. If I do that, will he have a right to stop child support?

Thanks all.

maleficent

Legally, he's responsilbe for the support of the child, whether he has visitation rights or not.

I do not beleive that you can just say, no youc an't see our son... that would be a violation of the custody agreement, and might land you in a spot of trouble.

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