amge

I just had to vent. Maybe someone out here can tell me how to deal with it, or give me some advice on a way to relieve the tension.

Let me get you up to speed on our recent argument/my unhappiness since the begining of this year.

I have been the main source of income for over three years now.

Last year we got married. Don't worry this is not some newly wed problem... We have been together for 14 years, living together for 12 of the 14 years.

But I started to noticed that my wife has been pretty depressed. She says things like why did she go to college to get a degree and yet she just stays at home cleaning the house. (One thing to point out here. is that I have never expected or told her to be a house wife since she quit her job). I make quite a bit of money so we can live without any worries.

She says it's because she was thinking about going back to work because she was bored, but was affraid because she was out of a job for such a long time. She thought the employer would ask why such a big gap. But then she says she wants to start a family and didn't want to go to work because she will just have to quit to raise the kid.

I keep telling her that she doesn't have to go to work, and she can do what ever she wants. LIke I said I have never expected her to do things around the house. I was more than willing to clean up the place or cook dinner, etc

Then she gave me the one answer that just touched my nerve. She said she didn't want to go to work so because she was afraid that her extra money would go to support more things that I wanted to buy. (I have been talking about getting a motorcycle).

Anyways I got so pissed. I said for the past three years I have thought of my income as "ours". She has been in control of the checking account since she quit her job. But now if she makes any income it's her money and not "ours". But yet my income is still "ours". This is BS.

LIke I said I have never asked her or even hinted at her that since she has no job, she has to clean the house, cook the food, or do the laundry. I tell her I will do it but she keeps saying to me that that is her job. Every time she makes dinner or cleans the house I say thank you. And she says thank you for bringing home money so we can eat and have a roof over our heads.

But after she said that if she goes to work then her money is her money, yet my money is "ours" it has just pushed me pass the line.

How do I deal with this. I mean I don't want to say anything because she is already depressed. But shit this just makes me so mad that I am working my ass off everyday to live the way we live.

Astrocloud

Just to piss her off and give her a hint -hire a house cleaning service and a cook.

aberkok

I was going through this not too long ago. Doesn't money just suck?

The only advice I can really offer, since the problem fixed itself for me (she finished teacher's college and got a job) is that she needs to do something which fulfills her more than cleaning the house. Whether that be to find a career path or take up some kind of art or serious activity. She needs to self-actualize in some way, and achieve her potential.

You have every right to be upset. I know I was when I was in the same boat. As the situation was taken more and more for granted, it became harder for me to happily share the income I was making, especially since things were so tight for us.

The trick is in how you handle communicating this to her. We would end up fighting a lot because, in bringing it up, I think her self-worth came into question, i.e. "why am I making this sacrifice for someone who doesn't appreciate it?" which begged the question (I asked myself): "what will it take to satisfy my notion that this is worth it?"

In the end I think, apart from my money seemingly going towards someone who was taking it for granted, I was sad for her situation (depressed and didn't feel like she was getting anywhere in her life). I was doing what I wanted to be doing with my life at that time, and in retrospect, I was forgetting how hard it can be to get to that point, and forgetting all the times when I just wanted to give up and stay at home/in bed instead of looking for a job/ getting gigs.

To make a long story short (too late), it's O.K. to be mad, but I think your priority should be to empathize with her and see if you can get to the bottom of her depression together. I believe the financial part should come after that.

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amge

Thanks for the bood advice. aberkok. I really appreciate it.

I guess it's hard for me to empathize. Part of me thinks, I would love to sit a home and have someone take care of me while I all had to do was clean the house, do the laundry, and cook.

I keep telling her to go do something. Or find some simple job to do. Or just get out of the house.

I guess I need to stop trying to walk on egg shells. As I have been trying to avoid talking about things because I have been affraid of upsetting her.

Cynthetiq

change is hard, change is scary, change requires doing something different.

first and foremost she needs to decide when she's ready to do whatever it is she's going to do. That's one issue.

Second issue, is the thought that her contribution isn't "ours" you need to discuss that with her. If that's how she thinks of it, you need to share with her your feelings as to how hurtful it is to you.

Money is not an easy subject to discuss with your significant other. Be patient and listen before speaking.

Here's some leading questions for thought:

If you were to take a second part time job, would that be "our" money or "my" money? Why not "my" money?

If suddenly I was (god forbid) laid off, hospitalized and suddenly you were the breadwinner, is it still "your" money?

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

amge

Oh I have told her how much that hurts to her that her money is her money. She says the amount of "hard" work that I do, doesn't equal the "hard" work that she would put into a job.

I'm in the IT business and yes there are times were I can slack off on the job. But when it's crunch time, or if something goes down. I'm there 100% getting it fixed. She was in sales, so she didn't have that much time for slacking off. She was on her toes all the time. Even after hours. She doesn't think my after/off hour checking of the server to make sure things are running is not "hard" work.

She also says that everything she buys is for "us". Every thing I buy is for "myself"...
So that is why she feels that her money is really "her" money.

Again I smell BS.

Some times I think that she is doing this to piss me off. Maybe she wants to leave me , but how stupid will that look to her family and friends. She left a life where the husband worked, she didn't, and the husband didn't make her a domestic engineer?

Maybe she is doing/saying things like this so that I would get so pissed, and I would be the one to leave.

To be honest, I don't think she even knows what she wants to do.

Ambient1

Wow... this situation sounds so familiar.

My ex and I bought a house together, with the expectation of paying equally towards the expenses (we weren't married yet). Shortly after we moved in, she lost her job, and I ended up paying for everything.

She didn't really bother looking for another job, and I was happy to be able to commit myself fully to my own career and not have to worry about dinner, groceries or cleaning the house.

Move forward two years and she suddenly wants to start working again. Fine, no problem, we split household chores, same as before.... But this time she doesn't want to pay her half of the expenses. She's going out on shopping sprees and blowing her money, while I'm still stuck paying the bills.

...I've learned my lesson.

The only advice I can give you, is for you each to pay all household (mortgage, insurance, food) and common (vactions, savings etc) expenses based on a percentage of each of your incomes. Anything that you are left with is *Your* money; same for her. If either of you want more personal money, you could also work out a system for "sweat equity" (ie: an hour of housework is equal to $20). It's important for people to have their own money to do with as they please, no matter how frivolous (so what kind of bike are you looking at? ).

Money is one of the biggest things that tear relationships apart. You need to deal with it soon, and deal with it often.

Don't do that! Ever! If you have a problem, you need to sit down and discuss it.

Cereberus

Ambient1 speakum with great wisdom.

If you only knew how many friends of mine have chimed in with the exact same scenario about "our money" and "her money."

I had one friend (male) who made a moderate income and married a multimillionaire. She bought an expensive house, in her name, and charged him $1000/month for room, board, utilities, and whatnot. Ten years later, when she kicked him out, it was her position that he would get nothing for the ten years of appreciation on the house, which was in the millions. Oh, there was a pre-nup, but after ten years, those things sometimes don't hold up.

I guess the point I'm making is that (in my opinion, admittedly) women EXPECT to be provided for. When you do it, they seem to feel that you're only doing the bare minimum. Many of them will get quite vocal about how you don't make enough money. This is the kind to get away from as quickly as possible.

Make SURE you don't have kids until this is straightened out. My wife and I kind of muddled through that part. She went back to work, we hired a live-in, and then my wife got jealous of the time the nanny spent with my son. One day (right when I had obligated to move to a nicer neighborhood) my wife informed me that she had quit her job a month ago.

We had a few discussions about her expectation (early on) that I was to provide all of the income and do half of the housework. Through the years, it gradually worked out, but I'd sure be upfront with my idea of the division of labor if I had to go through the same situation again. (BTW, I'm still married to the same woman, and we're fine.)

I'm rambling too much. My advice?

1. Make sure she doesn't get pregnant until this is hashed out.
2. Hash it out.
3. Be aware that in your current situation, she would get much more alimony if she split. I hate to say it, but this situation smells to me as if she wants to leave, and is simply priming things to get the maximum settlement. It wouldn't be the first time I've seen such a thing occur. And it really, really sucks to send that check every month.

Since I don't know either one of you, I may be totally wrong. However, I'm confident of two things:

There's a good chance that she's depressed because she's trying to figure out a way to leave you without looking like the bad guy, and

If you were to post an ad anywhere saying you were looking for a replacement for her, and mention that you don't mind providing all the money and doing a goodly portion of the housework, your e-mail server would crash from all of the offers.

P. S. Don't get the motorcycle. I've got a friend who's brain damaged from some idiot who hung a left in front of him. Yes, he was wearing a helmet.

guthmund

Sound advice from Ambient. I'm a big believer in discussing problems as it's usually the only sure way to resolve the situation one or the other.

I used to get this shit all the time. Just because I don't 'work' as hard doesn't mean my time is worth less nor my dollar not as valued. Work is work. You put in your time and are compensated. Whether it's fair or not is up to you and your employer and no one else.

She's at home, confused, bored and probably a little depressed. I imagine that's exacerbating the situation. So every little thing (like a bit of spending money, which is important for most folks) is going to turn into something big.

So, I'd take that into consideration when you do talk to her.

__________________
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ryfo

Mrs Ryfo here, We are in the same boat, I dont work (due to health reasons) hubby is sole bread winner. I am on disability so I 'earn' a little bit of money. All money is ours, every cent,I dont need alot as I stay at home mostly, I do all housework I dont expect hubby to and I dont mind,anything I can do to contribute to the overall wellbeing of the relationship is fine by me. I think money should be pooled and purchases discussed and agreed upon. Works well for us.

amge

Thank you everyone again for the support, and suggestions.

I'm definately not going to bring any children in to this world in when things are up in the air like this.

This is really going to be hard. Thinking this afternoon, I am starting to feel that she wants out of this marriage, but doesn't want to be the one to leave first.

I was thinking about all these things. First she hardly ever wants to spend time with me or go out to places with me. We hardly listen to or watch the same music or TV shows. She will read pretty much all night. When it comes to going to bed, I'm usually going to bed around midnight. She looks dead tired, but says she can't sleep. And she won't come to bed until around 5:30 am. I get up around 6:00 am and I'm off to work. She claims she can't sleep but I know for a fact that she sleeps from around 6:00 am until 4:30-5:00 pm. When I'm getting ready to come home. She is usually getting out of the shower when I walk in the house. She doesn't care that I'm selling things that mean a lot to me on ebay, or in the paper. When in the past I think she would have stopped me from doing that. I'm actually selling things so, I won't have that much stuff to packup if and when the day comes I have to move out.

I'm going to try to talk to her this week, but I think I need to prepare for the worst.

Oh by the way I know the dangers of motorcycles. I have had two friends professional race car drivers who have crashed and died. A long time ago, I remember they both have said if something happens during a race, at least they were doing something the love to do.

At this point in my life, I feel the same way. No kids to worry about, most likely a wife that would be happy with the insurance money, and I would die while enjoying my hobby.

Gilda

My wife makes more money than I do, though not by a lot, perhaps 10 grand a year, and makes enough to support us both if I were to lose my job. In a few years, when we have kids, I'll be a stay at home mom and housewife.

Since we are both working, we split the financial burden this way. We've each maxed out pre-tax retirement savings plans. We each get an allowance, the same amount of money for each of us regardless of actual income, from our own paychecks. We pay the joint bills out of her paycheck, which is our way of ensuring we can live on just the one, and the remaining portion of mine goes into joint savings.

The allowance rule works like this: She gets no say whatsoever in how I want to spend my allowance. If I want to spend $329 on a Brave and Bold 28, she doesn't get to complain. If she wants to buy a samurai sword, I don't get to complain. All food, joint entertainment, household bills such as electricity, cable bills, car payments, phone bills, etc. come out of our joint checking, and nobody touches the savings without consulting the other.

It's a system that works very well for us.

__________________
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abaya

Gilda, how did you and Grace come up with this great plan? I really like it... you've outlined a very fair and equitable way of managing finances, as far as I can see it. Even though your salaries are disparate, you pay for all joint expenses based on percentages earned... but you also can't "out-spend" each other since your allowances are the same. Thank you for the clear explanation of your approach!

Communication, communication, communication. At this point for the OP, I'd say that the more honest, the better. Hell I'd even go for blunt, since your circumstances seem quite dire. But don't get fatalistic man, it sounds like you're pretty depressed too when it comes down to it. Reading between the lines, it seems there are some serious issues going on besides the money, and it's just emerging in the money stress (much like sex is always symptomatic of deeper things in the relationship).

Okay, enough sex analogies for today! (just made another one in thread on spirituality)

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

aberkok

All of the above are really worrying me, amge. I'm no psychiatrist or professional marriage counselor, so this is not a diagnosis, but everything I'm now hearing leads me to believe that your problems are much more serious than financial. I think you need to see a professional counselor of some kind.

Your wife definitely sounds depressed to me, and your attitude seems very pessimistic, especially with your resigned attitude towards death. Maybe I'm getting worried over nothing but I hope some older more experienced TFPers will chime in on this one.

__________________
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Warden Gentiles: "It? Perfectly innocent. But I can see how, if our roles were reversed, I might have you beaten with a pillowcase full of batteries."

amge

Not to worry. I'm not suicidal or anything like that. It's just I don't fear death. My father died when i was young. And losing two close friends whom were professional racing drivers in separate racing accident, has prepared me for death.

An accident is something I have no control over. I was at the wrong place at the wrong time. But a crash is something that happens due to a chain of events. One of the first thing to prevent this chain of events is to ride with care and know that you are responsible for any actions you make in your car or on a motorcycle. That is why I don't drive/ride like a crazy punk kid on the streets. Driving/riding defensively also helps prevent the chain of events that could/would lead to a crash.

Anyway back to the thread.

Yes maybe professional help is a good thing, but I doubt she would go for it.

Like I said I need to talk to her about this, but I don't want to start something before I leave for a two day business trip. We will see what happens at the end of the week.

Anexkahn

Is there any basis for her belief that you would buy things that you wanted? Currently, do you not decide on most purchases together? If you are then the logical notion of pooled cash and mutually agreed upon purchases wouldn't be an unordinary request. However, if you have been making purchasing decisions without her input, maybe a good aproach would be to shift into a more mutually involved method for financial decision making.

It does sound like there is more at play here than just the financial thing, but it seems like she would need at least some reason to come up with those beliefs.

Cynthetiq

abaya, it's a very common method for couples. If I recall correctly it's one of the most effective methods from all the books on successful money management for couples.

I'm a bit confused about, "you pay for all joint expenses based on percentages earned" I get that she pays for it out of one paycheck (we're supposed to be doing that as well, but I haven't verified it in many months) but I'm not understanding the percentage earned part.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Ambient1

Here's a sample budget:

Mortgage..........................$1,200.00
Insurance...........................$210.00
Food................................$500.00
Heat................................$120.00
Electricity.........................$160.00
Cable................................$85.00
Phone................................$45.00
Auto - Payment......................$550.00
Auto - Gas..........................$300.00
Auto - Maint........................$200.00
Short Term Savings (Emerg. Fund)....$500.00
Long Term Savings.................$2,000.00
Vacation Fund.......................$350.00
Entertainment.......................$250.00
===========================================
Total Joint Expenses..............$6,470.00

..................................Person A.....Person B
................................~~~~~~~~~~...~~~~~~~~~~
Annual Income...................$82,000.00...$48,000.00
Monthly Income (After taxes).....$4,783.33....$2,800.00
Income Split*.......................63.08%.......36.92%
Joint Expenses...................$4,081.08....$2,388.92
................................==========...==========
Remaining Personal Income..........$702.26......$411.08
*OR*
Equal Allowance....................$556.67......$556.67


*Income Split:

Each share is calculated as: your share = your monthly income / (your monthly income + your SO's monthly income) * 100

abaya

Ambient1, I am highly impressed... this sounds like something I would like to do, once I get to that point in a relationship.

Cyn, I'm glad to hear that Gilda's (and Ambient1's!) way is common among couples... I like it a lot and would like to have the discipline to do the same.

I think it's really important that people split joint expenses along percentage-earned lines, but that they both have the same limit on spending each month (even if what they buy is completely at the individual's discretion). To do it any other way would create a kind of hierarchy even within the marriage... of one partner being more poor or rich than the other, which I think would lead to certain dependancies/resentments. The point is to create equality despite having disparate incomes.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Cynthetiq

i didn't realize she wasn't talking about Gilda at that point.

But Q: ultimately isn't the allowance the crucial element here?

You can call the percentages whatever your want but at the end of the day the bills need to be paid in full and there has to be the ability to have one's own discretionary spending money.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

abaya

Okay, Cyn you were right, here is the clarification: their money is pooled, but into different accounts (checking vs. savings). Essentially it's the same thing, though... since both become the couples' money together.

Grace's paycheck goes into immediate needs, so that they can indeed live off of that one check; Gilda's paycheck goes into long-term needs. I suppose, though, that if Grace lost her job, Gilda's paycheck would move into the short-term category, and they wouldn't be able to save for a while... but they'd have savings to help out, too, until Grace got a job.

Fascinating stuff, this is very helpful for me in thinking about equitable money management since I tend to worry about those things.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

abaya

I think the allowance is the important part, yes. I think the equal allowance part does not come out of just giving extra money from the higher-earning partner to the lower-earning partner. Both agree to have, say, $400 to spend. Then Higher Earner puts the extra $302 in savings, and the lower-earner puts the extra $11 in savings. That way one person doesn't have more discretionary funds than the other, but they are both contributing to long-term security.

Gilda, am I totally off?

OP, is this helping at all??? I feel like we've digressed.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Cynthetiq

I suggest this book, which I've only thumbed throut at the moment but need to read cover to cover.

Smart Couples Finish Rich : 9 Steps to Creating a Rich Future for You and Your Partner

abaya you're very astute in your observations here.

the savings should go to long term security etc. and not to give the other, more spending money as it creates that resentment we're trying to avoid here from the OP.

the fundamental difference is verbiage... MY vs. OUR the allowance is also OURs in case of distress like unemployement or emergency, but its not reduced or taken from just one, it has to be done across the board.

What I take from the conversations that I've had with other couples who I consider strong in their relationship emotionally, spiritually, and financially, is that they are moving as a TEAM or PARTNERSHIP in ALL aspects of their relationship not just some or parts.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Ambient1

There are really two issues here.

1. You want to try and evenly split the joint expenses as fairly as possible. In the end, the only difference between the two methods is accountability. In the method above, I can tell you that Person B paid $31.32 for their share of the cable.

2. The system above works for varying level of commitments.

When you first move in with someone, you usually don't rush to go and put all your money in joint accounts. And until there is a permanent commitment between the couple, I wouldn't expect my SO to give me money from their pocket to add to my personal spending money.

Hopefully all that changes over time, you get married or whatever. At that point, I really don't think it would be fair for one person to have more spending money, even if they do make more. At that time, things do get pooled together; you become a team... it becomes "our" money.

EDIT:
Oops.. ya, I think we have bigtime!

questone

change is hard, change is scary, change requires doing something different.

Cynthetiq

agreed when you are just talking girlfriend/boyfriend, but once it's spousal (married), according to all other legals, it's OUR. I totally understand the culpability and ability to show that you paid X% to contribute to whatever bill.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

StanT

While my my wife's income and mine were nearly equal when we got married, mine has been double to triple hers for most of our marriage. Joint accounts never worked for us, it was an accounting nightmare. We have his and her's accounts and bills. I pay the mortgage, which goes a long ways toward equalizing incomes. She pays the phone bill because she doesn't want to listen to me bitch about it. I pay the broadband bill for the same reason. Personal expenses are paid seperately, as well.

Different strokes and all. You just have to find a system that works for you.

Disk_Pusher

I must admit my fiance and I have a far less... sophisticated... system for dealing with bills.

"Did a bill come today?"

"Yeah."

"You want to cover it or me?"

"Doesn't matter."

*bill floats from desk to couch to fridge over a period of days*

"Have we paid this?"

"Oh shit!"

And then it gets paid. Nah, usually we just split everything 50/50, circumstances providing. Money really isn't too much of an issue between us, thankfully. We both hate the idea of not pulling our weight - we even fight over who GETS to pay a bill sometimes.

Gilda

Sorry I didn't follow up on this, Grace has been off for three days in a row for the first time in weeks, and of course, Star Wars.

To clarify, here's how we do things.

First, as a teacher, I have a special retirement account available to me, a 403b, into which I can put up to 1/4 of my pretax income. I have that maxed out. For example, $1000 a month into the 403b means that my gross salary, before taxes of any kind, is $1000 less, so I get that thousand invested at a cost of about $700 take home. Grace likewise invests the maximum pre-tax dollars she can in her retirement account, which isn't nearly as generous as mine, but which has employer matching, so it comes out about even.

So after that, lets say for simplicity's sake, I bring home after taxes $3000, and Grace brings home $4,000. Rather than try to figure out percentages of bills, we originally just put all of both checks into the joint checking, save for the allowance.

Lets assume that the monthly allowance is $500. I get my check, it's $3000, and I deposit $2500 into joint checking, $500 into my personal checking. Grace gets here check, deposits $3500 into joint checking, $500 into personal checking. Because we keep a baseline of $1000 in checking, that puts us at $7000. We have about $1000 coming in from our business, and that goes into the joint account. All family expenses come out of that (including my sister's), mortgage, car payments, utilities, cable, food, toiletries, anything job related, joint entertainment, medical expenses etc. At the end of the month, the day before payday, we'd balance the checkbook. Let's say there's $3700 left of the original $8000; to keep a $1000 baseline, we'd transfer $2700 into savings, and deposit our checks, and start anew.

We did that for most of the first two years. The idea was that there was no "mine" and "hers"; it was all "ours", thus the equal allowances, and no divvying up expenses based on income. We also made savings untouchable; no spending that unless the other approved. The savings was there to provide an emergency fund should one of us lose her job, or there were emergency medical bills etc.

But since we've started talking about having a child, we want for me to be able to stay at home with the baby for the first few years, so we needed to ensure that we could survive on one income alone. So we started using the system described above. I get my check, put my $500 allowance in my personal account, and put the other $2500 in savings. Grace gets hers, puts aside her $500, and puts the other $3500 in checking, and we try to live off of that from month to month for an entire year, without touching savings. The end result is the same; after the allowance is taken out, all of both incomes go into joint accounts, but this way we ensure that Grace's income will support us both.

In another year or two, the plan is to have a baby, and I'll take off for a few years to be a stay at home mommy and housewife. When we do that, living off of her salary alone, we'll still have equal allowances, because even though it'll be here salary alone supporting us, we don't consider our incomes to be hers and hers, but rather ours. When our child is old enough for full time pre-school (about 4) and I go back to work, my salary will again be "our" money.

The allowance part is what really prevents arguments over money. The monthly allowance is inviolate. Neither partner gets any say in what the other spends her allowance on; mine tends to go for comic books and clothes, hers tends to go for Japanese cultural artifacts, clothes, and presents for me. The savings is also iviolate; nobody touches that without the other's permission. The joint checking is negotiable; we've worked out exactly what constitutes joint expenses, and what constitutes personal expenses. But sometimes, something comes along that doesn't fit either, so we figure that out together.

We've avoided 90% of the money arguments this way. The numbers above are for illustrative purposes, and do not actually represent our income and expenditures.

It's a little more complicated than that, because we're not actually legally married, but not by a whole lot. It allows us to focus on other parts of our relationship.

Oh, and the basic system was one Grace proposed, and we worked out the tweaks between the two of us. Which is to say, Grace said "Let's do things this way," and I agreed.

__________________
I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that.

~Steven Colbert

DJ Happy

When my wife was working, she'd have the same attitude about money: my salary was for our living expenses and hers was for whatever she wanted it to be for. We had a chat after she said that and she realised it wasn't fair. Quickly resolved.

She doesn't work anymore (she wants to, but she wants to be at home with our 2 year old daughter more) so the way we work it is thus - envelopes. Every month after I get paid we divy up my salary into envelopes for all our major expenses: rent, savings, groceries, car, entertainment, the kid's school fees, and a monthly allowance for her and myself (hers is 50% more than mine because she has to cater for the fat kid as well). The excess goes into a different envelope that is used for emergency expenses (such as medical bills when I was in between insurance) and then whatever's left goes into the bank at the end of the month.

It seems to work pretty well.

amge

Well I wanted to thank everyone again for the suggestions, advice, and support.

We talked over this weekend, and we have decided to go our separate ways. I kind of knew it was over. So just to protect myself, I secretly recorded the whole talk/fight. Luckly I did, because she flat out said to me that she purposely did not look for a job just to screw with me finacially. She also said that she was going to take everything she could to fuck with me.

So I told her she better have a good lawyer, and she said it's her word against mine, and since she is a woman with no career now she will get everything she wants.

It was so hard to keep from laughing into her face and show her I was recording everything she said.

I talked to a lawyer at the begining of this week and he heard the tape. He said he is sure we will be able to reach a very reasonable settlement. I hope so...

This really sucks. I mean we have been together for 14 years, and have gone through thick and thin. But to find out this evil side of her was a complete shock.

Lifes a bitch, then you marry one, then you die...

sashime76

When my sister got married and brother moved out (he didn't get alone with my dad) I was the only supporting both my parents and the house mortgage. It wasn't easy since my dad was cumbered by old back injury and the fact he was getting old.

I was always working 10-12 hour days, almost every weekend - Sat. & Sun. When a new production line opened I was asked to work double shift and I agreed. The longest stretch I worked without taking a day off was 37 days. I was like a walking zombie after about 3 weeks...

It wasn't until I got a job promotion and a rather large pay increase (cost of living + job performance), then I didn't have to slave myself to keep up with the bills. I took a first real vacation, 2 weeks off, after working nearly 10 years full time.

Yeah, I must say, being the only source of income was hard. Luckily my wife makes decent money and we don't ever have dispute over money issues.

abaya

My god, this is insane... I'm so sorry, amge. That's just... unbelievable... and yet you are living through it. Did she give you any reasons for why she wanted to screw with you so bad? I have to imagine that something seriously emotional was going wrong between you guys... what was her "motive?" Please talk to us on TFP as you go through this process, I can't imagine it's an easy one at all.

Good call on recording that session, though will they let you use that in court? Damn, I can't even imagine. We are here for you! And I know it all looks dark now, but just be glad that at least it's not 30 years of your life, and that you found this out before she did other heinous things against you and possible children!

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Cynthetiq

wow! not what I thought at all...

glad that it was figured out now than much much later.

good luck and we're here if you need us.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Sage

hugs and support to amge! good for you for seperating yourself from this person who was only sending you bad vibes. It will be very hard, and it will be tough, but realize NOW that there's a better side of life after this passes- life is too short to be with someone who doesn't love you 100%. TFPers unite!

__________________

amge

I really don't know what caused her to do this. She won't tell me and actually I don't care any more. Since there is no way in hell I'm going to try to fix the relationship.

There was a time were we had an "open" relationship. We had best friends move in with us for a year and half. Her friend was having relation ship problems, and was only moving in for a few weeks. But since the relationship was open, things got pretty wild. She seemed fine with it, actually she initiated it. After we got married all three of us agreed that this type of relationship had to end.

We ended up moving to California, and she quit her job. She didn't have any friends out there, but either did I. We are both the kind of person where we didn't need anyone else except for each other.

I had work friends, but I spend all day with them, so I didn't really want to spend more time with them after work.

Well I don't know the what she is thinking. I'm sure there is something, but she has passed the line of no return. There is no trust. In fact I don't really care. She has left and living out of a hotel now. She thinks she is going to get everything. What ever.

My lawyer has not gotten back to me about how legal the recording is. Yes she did not know she was being recorded. But I'm thinking it's not legal either. But this should give us the edge and let us just settle out of court.

dirtyrascal7

wow, that sucks... i'm sorry to hear things didn't work out. i remember reading an article a while back that says some insanely high percentage of all divorces stem from some type of financial trouble.

it's ashame that she had to get so bitter about breaking up... i don't understand that at all, to care about someone for that long and then suddenly go toe-to-toe with them over every cent between you? it's sickening that people can even think like that... best of luck to you, i hope you can reach a settlement quickly.

Cynthetiq

I'm assuming you still live in CA.

also how is she paying for the hotel if she's not working? running up bills on credit cards that YOU are paying for?

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

amge

Yes still in Cali. Yes running my credit card which sucks. But I'm faced with losing 50% of everything we own.

Well this news sucks. I wonder how this will hold up if it was a communication between two married people.

There was no secret information. She just stated the truth, and it was recorded on a tape. It wasn't confidential.

Cynthetiq

only married for 1 year, if the previous place you lived supports common law (state of NJ does not recognize common law at 7 years), you'll have to pay something for some time.

but she's going to have to prove that you made her stay home, or she's going to have to prove that she tried to get a job and she wasn't able to and had to be supported by you.

be wary of your finances... and protect yourself.

do the dilligence of stopping your credit lines, and give her an allowance every week or month with a reciept (preferably check) that way there is an upper limit to her spending on your back.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.