katyg

I've been reading a lot of psychology books lately as I am considering going back to University to study it. In my recent relationship a lot of arguments got out of control resulting in my partner...

Threatening to beat me

Grabbing my throat

Breaking posessions

And punching walls/doors etc.

Now I am not the sort of woman who would ever accept this sort of behaviour as normal and I sought counselling for my partner and his problems - rather than judge him I wanted to help.

However the relationship has now ended as he refuses to sort out his issues. I was wondering if any men or women here have had similar problems...what do you think were the contributing factors to these situations?

My partner had a drug habit and was severely beaten and bullied as a child. I must say I am NOT EXCUSING THE BEHAVIOUR, I am trying to understand it...any opinions?

x

soma

My dad was abusive when we were kids. I see there being a few reasons:

1. He had low self esteem and I know that when the world picked on him, he would take it out on the wife and kids.
2. He didn't know how to control his anger.
3. My mom would keep on doing things that he hated. I know it sounds awful to put it on my mom, but sometimes she really did just push his buttons even though she knew what was coming.
4. I'm guessing he was just raised that way.

Disclaimer: I might be wrong, these are just the reasons I think are responsible for my dad's abusiveness.

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Having Girl Problems?

maleficent

Option A
With some people, it's what they know... I'm sure in some part of their brain, they know it's wrong, and both men and women can be abusive, but they've not seen other ways to express anger.

Option B -
People abuse other people, because they can... The abuser probably has never had anyone stand up to them, so as long as they don't have anyone call them on their behavior, they will continue to do it.

I worked with an editor at a major news magazine years back who was a total hothead... He broke his office door, more than once, he put a hole in his office wall by throwing a stapler at a person -he missed but the wall didn't do so well... His tantrums were legendary... and they were tantrums... I could easily see him as a small child throwing a tantrum to get what he wanted and Id bet my last dollar that it worked...

it's behavior he learned at an early age, and he never saw reason to change... I never once saw anyone stand up to him... and last I checked his name was still on the masthead... so I'd imagine he's still wandering the halls causing people to cower.

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BBtB

Well by and large you answered your question with your last statement, those who should have loved and cared for him as a child taught him the way to show love was with violence. I also want to add that this is far from a "man" problem. There is an equal number of unblanced women. You do not hear about it as often because of two factors, one they rarely do as much phsyical damage and men are less prone to talk about it (even abused women rarely get out of the relationship or get out just to get into another, even fewer speak of it)

This is certainly not the only cause but I would dare say its the most common, drugs had a role too I am sure but I am more inclined to call that another symptom of the same problem.

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Meridae'n once played "death" at a game of chess that lasted for over two years. He finally beat death in a best 34 out of 67 match. At that time he could ask for any one thing and he could wish for the hope of all mankind... he looked death right in the eye and said ...

"I would like about three fiddy"

tecoyah

Lack of Control....period.

Everyone gets mad.
Everyone has Issues.
Everyone has the ability to control emotions to one extent or another.

Not everyone seems capable of maintaining the ability to keep emotions in check.

lurkette

On the contrary, I think there are two types of abusers. Those who lose control and those who exert control forcefully.

There is a distinct difference between someone who loses his/her temper occasionally and gets physical, vs. a chronic abuser who uses violence or threat of violence to control someone's actions. I'd guess there's not a hard line between the two, and some abusers may fall into both categories depending on their mood and the dynamics of the relationship.

At any rate, the bottom line is an inability to use nonviolent means to resolve conflict. I'd guess the reasons vary from person to person (bad childhood, mental imbalance, whatever) but the root of it is a need to control another person's actions and the lack of non-physical skills to manage relationships and their own behavior.

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"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France

abaya

Yeah, this is a tough one. I have a friend who recently got married to a guy who, as far as I know, is an upstanding and caring man, came from a good family, responsible, intelligent, etc. However, I do know that one time, during a heated fight, he grabbed her by the throat in a moment of fury, and semi-attempted to strangle her. He was shocked at himself immediately afterwards, and apologized profusely, and things went on. It was never spoken of again, and as far as I know, nothing like that has ever happened again. I do think it was a momentary loss of control... but you know what? I would have broken up with him and not looked back. That is not the kind of shit that anyone should EVER have to put up with, not even once. No way, man. I still worry about my friend marrying him, with that one spot of evidence on his record... what he might to do their children, in a "moment of rage." Fuck that. These men are slime, I don't care what happened in their childhood, they're adults now and responsible for themselves, and to not reform and get help only means that they are irresponsible assholes. And yes, I watched my stepdad put his fist through many a wall/closet door during fights with my mother, and I HATED it. I love my dad, but he can be an asshole, and my mom never should have tolerated it for an instant. Not an instant.

/ends rant

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

analog

Power.

"Loss of control" during the "heat of the moment" just means they had a greater desire for power than restraint. You can chalk up single, unrepeated incidents as temporary loss of control, but anything more than that is not a loss of control, it's a lack of control caused by a desire for power.

When someone reaches out to harm another in the heat of an argument, it's to exert the ultimate form of power- violence (physical threat, etc). This is not a loss of control, it's the person suddenly deciding that the only way they will get to exert their power over the other is to threaten or harm them.

One single time- people can snap, shit happens, etc.

Anything more than one single time, ever- this person desires power over you, and will use force during an argument to shift the power back in their direction.

Simple as that.

Pesto

It's likely it happened to him when he was a kid.

Phant84

My wife and I had a female friend, who happened to be an illegal. She started dating this guy that everyone felt was bad news.
The 1st problem came after a night that we all went out. He got upset because he felt like she paid more attention to everyone else. To make his point clear, he pulled over the car and kicked her out.

After this happened, everyone told her to dump his ass, and that she didnt need to deal with his bullshit.

Flash forward 3 months, she is still with him. At which point he decides that she is cheating on him. He started parking a couple of houses down and watching her house and jumping the fence to see if there was anyone inside with her. After about 2 days of this, he asks her to go to breakfast with him.
Once again everyone told her just to forget him.
He picked her up the next morning for "breakfast" and drove her start to the nearest border patrol check point and turned her in.

Border patrol agents were shocked to hear what was happening. They gave her some advice and deported her.
When she got back to the US, she went to the DA's office and filed charges. Apparently, other things had taken place and she had proof. They did a background on him and he had a rather long record.

So, after this long drawn out story, here is what I was getting to:

The guys family was extremely racist against hispanics, and having grown up around so many (90% of the pop in my city) his was torn between his family and, well, the rest of the city. Could he have controlled himself, yes. But I have a feeling that the way he was raised, as others have already said, had a lot to do with it.

(whew, that was a lot to type on the cell phone.)

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Phant

Irrationality is the square root of all evil

blade02

Personally a man using violence to get what he wants in a relationship is no different than a woman using sexuality to get what she wants in a relationship. Its the same thing. People using the power they have to manipulate another person. In either case it is wrong and doesn't bode well for healthy relationships.

Willravel

If you were his therapist, that'd be okay. If you're his gf, it's not.

This is a person who is unable to channel and control his rage, and as a consequence, you are put in extreme danger. You being in a relationship with him already has you in a role, and if you were to try and act as a therapist you would be assuming dual roles and this would have detrimental effects on him and you.

Baraka_Guru

Excellent point. In my own experience, trying to help would have been a volatile thing. It should never be expected of a victim to do something to help their abuser... even though many abusers were at one point victims themselves. It may depend on the severity of the situation. I'm not sure. In my own case, it was a severe case of emotional abuse that occurred over a seven-year period, which ended because the relationship eventually self-destructed.

I did my own reading on the issue because it was a particularly odd thing for me to grasp, being a man victimized by a woman. Try looking for support with that in mind. What shocked me, was that according to the typical symptoms or signs of this sort of abuse, the relationship I was in had a majority of them. The severity of the abuse depends on the cumulative occurrences of these.

Translation:
Counselor: Tell me the things that your spouse does to you.
Client: *Offers a laundry list of events, both unique and recurring*
Counselor: You should leave the relationship...immediately. Don't go home; go to a shelter if you must.

I'm not sure if this would be the case if the client were male, but now you get a hint of what goes on in my mind.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Strange Famous

Bullies are bullies.

There might be a lot of reasons, but I am afraid I have to say that abusive behaviour requires BOTH an element of nuture and nature.

To be the kind of man likely to bully and beat someone he is supposed to care about I think a certain kind of personality is required... of course, growing up in a certain environment could make this tendancies more or less repressed, or more or less esy to contain.

By all means it might be possible to feel sorry for such a person, an abuser, but my only feelings are to deal with them roughly.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

little_tippler

I have had a little experience with this kind of abuse, and I feel that it is about power. When someone is not in control in other parts of their life and their partner is also requiring attention that they feel unable to give, they use violence and emotional abuse as a way of making the other person feel as bad as they do, and also to have control over that one aspect in their life.

I think it's wrong, inexcusable, and I also think that people who behave this way don't ever stop. It may be a pretty rough outlook on this but I feel quite strongly that once you abuse the person you love in this way, you will keep on doing it.

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

Sultana

Because the women allow them to.

As a friend used to tell me, "I can't keep you from doing it the first time, but I can keep you from doing it ever again!"

__________________
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath.
At night, the ice weasels come." -

Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.

Baraka_Guru

This is true. In my case, I was allowing her to do it. The challenge is overcoming the manipulation and the thinking that, even though a victim, it is you who's doing something wrong. This is especially the case with emotional abuse. Guilt is a big barrier to putting a stop to things; the abuser uses it as a weapon. The best way to look at it is this way: When victims get out of a situation of severe emotional abuse, there is a common result--they have no sense of self. This is why they allow it to happen for so long; they don't have the sense of being that most people do. They live for their abuser. This is a convenient and powerful position for an abuser to be in. Looking back at those seven years of my life, I often ask myself: Why didn't I leave sooner? It's tough thinking about that in hindsight, but at the time, it was because she instilled a strong sense of guilt in me that acted as a barrier against my doing anything that would spur her to ask: "Don't you love me?"

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Strange Famous

Well... I'm not trying to downplay anyone's experiences and I am in no place to judge...

But I think a woman abusing a man in a relationship is a DIFFERENT thing to a man abusing a woman in one... (not implying that one has to be intrinsically worse)

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Baraka_Guru

Yes, one of the biggest problems I've faced so far is the stigma of automatic non-victim status as a male despite being a victim otherwise. If roles were reversed and I were the woman, I could be on Oprah. It is difficult for me to find support because I am male. For females, support is everywhere.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

cyklone

There are things which cause this violence katyg and there are things which maintain it. I've observed that generally it is caused because when we are experiencing extreme emotions we can't think very well, so we resort to well learned behaviour. If we came from a violent family then that behaviour is violent. People normally fail to learn from that because they don't want to think about it or because they think the solution is to just not get angry (like that works) and because they don't learn from it, they do the same thing next time. After the pattern is established it is maintained for other reasons such as control, dominance, inability to resolve disputes in other ways etc.

Something worth thinking about. The first time someone is beaten up in a relationship they are a victim. The second time, they are a volunteer.
Your children will learn to behave in the same way if this is the example they are given.

Strange Famous

yes - I appreciate that would be the case; not only do you suffer the case, but also suffer people taking it as a kind of joke afterwards.

but - at the same time, I do think there are unique aspects of a male abusing a female as well (especially - and without meaning to be sexist - I think it would be very uncommon in a male/female partnership that the female is stronger and more aggressive than the male [even in cases when the female is violent and abusive])

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

World's King

1. When dinner isn't ready when I get home from work.
2. I've been drinking all day.
3. Those fuckin' kids of yours won't shut the fuck up.
4. You talked back to me.
5. To prove that I'm bigger, stronger, smarter, all around better then you.
6. I'm too afraid to come out of the closet because I'm married.

__________________
heavy is the head that wears the crown

mixedmedia

This is spot on. I went through this, too.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Adri

I suspect that I'm being emotionally abused. With that said, since you've been through it, may I ask the following:

1. How do you know that what you experienced was actually emotional abuse and not just a slightly bitchy woman?
2. Where is the line between someone with a bad temper and someone who's actually abusive (maybe same as Question 1)
3. What did you eventually do to get out of it?
4. What if it really is me? I've changed the kind of person I am over the years we've been together, and it was such a gradual process that I barely noticed it until an old friend mentioned the other day that I'm *really* a lot of fun when my husband isn't around, but I'm quiet as a mouse when he is.

I realized I'm so quiet around him because I don't want him to embarrass me in front of others by telling me that whatever I said was wrong or that I should hush/say something else/go somewhere else/do something else. Does this make me abused, or has he simply opened my eyes to how annoying I am, so now I know when to keep my mouth shut?

No, but really. He's never hit me, although he has physically restrained me a time or two, and I know he was a total bully as a teenager (before we met). I don't foresee physical abuse, but ...

Baraka_Guru

I know what you mean. This is a double-edged sword, though. I'm sure that more men abuse women, and more seriously, than is done vise-versa, yet men who are abused by women have a hard time as victims. But when it comes to emotional abuse, female abusers, for the lack of a better term, have a "level playing field."

I agree that male-on-female abuse has unique circumstances, but doesn't severe female-on-male abuse? Seriously, put yourself in my position and consider seeking out help. Do you think I've spoken to my "traditionally minded" family about this? (To whom I was alienated from to a degree as a result of the relationship.) And I don't have any close friends to confide in. (Again, as result of the relationship.) And I feel too scarred (maybe even scared) to have it in me to even bring it up with my fiancee. (A psychological result of the abuse.)

I try not to think of it because it drives me insane. I can't afford psychotherapy and I refuse to take anything that changes my brain chemistry.

We really should talk.

I don't want to read too much into the few details you've offered, but I will say this:

1. There is a difference between "bitchy" and doing things like constantly tearing one down, isolating one from their family and friends, purposely and invariably using guilt to get what they want, etc. (Believe me, the list goes on.)
2. Bad temper is one thing, constantly being the primary target of it is another.
3. The relationship self-destructed, as I mentioned in a post above. It was a combination of factors, but I think it was mainly my going to university to get a another post-secondary degree, while she couldn't finish a general education community college program and was unhappy working at a video store. I think she felt threatened by that and she ended up leaving me for someone else. (This is yet another factor that adds to my turmoil: she's the one that left.)
4. The way you are acting around your husband is similar to how I used to act around my wife. I don't want to jump to conclusions, but from what you say, it doesn't sound like it's you.

That said, it sounds like it might be emotional abuse, but there isn't enough to go on here. You really should do some research and find a list of signs that would indicate this form of abuse, preferably from a reputable source. It might become all too obvious after that. It blew me away. I didn't know I was emotionally abused until a few weeks after the relationship ended. Over seven years of it.

I don't want you to rush out and make a mistake you will regret, but at the same time, if you really are being emotionally abused, you really need to do something about it. If it is anywhere near as severe as my case, the sooner the better. It's been over five years since it ended and I'm still feeling the aftershocks.

I hope it isn't as bad as it could be. Maybe you guys just need to work out some issues. I wish you the best.

(Feel free to PM me if you wish.)

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Plan9

Because she burnt the pot roast and keeps complaining about her right to vote.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Strange Famous

of course, I understand that there are unique aspects of a female abusing a male. The most damaging not only being that you can;t seek help so easily (because people wont take it seriously), but also you cannot easily retaliate with violence.

If a man hit me or behaved in an abusive way to me, I would always have the ability to simply attack him physically (even if I didnt come of best from the action)... but if a woman hits you, you can hardly just straight punch her back.

And whats with all of this "because she burned the dinner" comment. Is this adult behaviour?

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Nisses

Strange Famous,

I think you are simply not succeeding in putting yourself in their place. There is not always any real physical violence taking place, and when it is the case, it's almost always 1-sided, no hitting the man in the face because he just hit you.
And yes, there are cases of men that are literally physically suffering. You don't need to be strong to cause damage, that's what we invented tools for unfortunately.


Mind you, I'm not saying that it's necessarily bad that you can't put yourself in their place.


And yes, the comments are to be expected from self-appointed bad boys. It's always the case in a group of people that somebody will use sarcasm or irony to take a bit of the edge off of touchy subjects, don't let it bother you.

__________________
Moderation should be moderately moderated.

Nimetic

That sounds reasonable.

There are different levels I'd expect... I'd personally consider isolated cases quite differently to ones which are repeated.

Hmm. Yeah. That's a bit over-the-top.

The only part that I can understand or explain in any way is that us guys, sometimes have (I think) more primitive anger reactions. If you push us verbally, we (occasionally) get to a point where we need to escape or find some release.

I'm thinking that dependant on personality and so on, some people hit that limit much faster and have less control. And then too... male sports often teach us to react physically to assault of various kinds.

But as lurkette said, there's a difference between loosing control, which is somewhat of a defensive 'attack' instinct (even if it causes disproportionate damage against an unusually small attacker) and premeditated threats.

I would expect that one reaction comes from a primitive "place". Animals struggling for dominance/survival. The other comes from manipulative thinking and morals or lack of.

My suggestion (which is probably useless) is to see the first as a trait that can be dealt with... explore issues slowly and care. It's unexpected and sustained attack that, for me, causes a primitive anger reaction. If someone talks slower and gives me time, this does not occur (ie I'll consider the criticism logically).

For the second case... er. Dunno. A course in philosophy maybe?