Starkizzer

I am so confused and mixed up right now that I really need some advice.

During a fight with my fiance, who I have been dating for five years, I made him finally tell me the truth of why he insists on looking at porn even though I have told him how much it bothers me. (A little back story, I was raised in a divorced home where my mother cheated on my dad and then went off and had a whole new family without a second though then to add insult to injury my brother abused me in every way possible from the time I was about 5 till my parents kicked him out of the house when I was 12.) So needless to say I have pretty bad self-esteem and my fiance was told of all these things when we first starting dating. I know porn shouldn't bother me but it does. We have taken plenty pictures of us and he rarely uses them.

Well the truth finally came out, he said it because the only parts of my body that turn him on are my breasts and ass. Now I am overweight, and I know this. I'm 5'9" I started off last November at 223 I am now down to 195. So I am roughly half way to my goal of losing a total of 50 lbs. (BTW he was he last person to compliment me on my weight loss) I know that my weight had bothered him in the past, he told me he wished he knew what it was like to have a gf with a smaller waist, but he had told me that he was being stupid at the time and realized he was being a jerk.

He says he loves all of me and that my weight doesn't bother him and that its not so wrong to wish for improvements. My stomach is the biggest issue. Most people don't believe me when I tell them how much I weigh.

So I guess my problem is now I feel weird being naked around him, I mean he did lie to me for four years and let me think that everything was just fine. He says he lied because he didn't want to hurt me and its my fault that I made him tell me these horrible things. He has told me he doesn't want to lose me but I know things are going to be weird.

Should I just let this go, he only thought the same awful thoughts I have thought about myself a million times over. I guess I have just had a notion that the person you love should be turned on and love all parts of you. I do with him and hes no rock hard body but thats never been something I want. Hes a little overweight and I like it.
I know that this is very long and a lot to understand but I guess I'm looking for words of wisdom from you ladies.

Thanks
Felling slightly heartbroken

__________________
Frivolity, at the edge of a Moral Swamp, hears Hymn-Singing in the Distance and dons the Galoshes of Remorse. ~Edward Gorey

mixedmedia

Well, I don't know if I have any advice really. It's kind of a complicated situation.

First of all, it sounds to me like you both have clashing expectations.

If I'm reading you right then he fell in love with you when you weighed 25 pounds more than you do now. If your weight was a problem for him he should have been up front with you about it and you could have dealt with it then, or he could have split with you and looked for someone who more closely matched his physical preference if it were that important to him.

As for the pornography thing, I totally understand where you are coming from as I am the mother of two daughters who were abused and one of them is currently dealing with this with her boyfriend. She understands intellectually that it shouldn't bother her that he looks at porn because her boyfriend is very responsive to her looks, but it does anyway because of self-esteem issues possibly related to her abuse (but not necessarily). And I sympathize with her. BUT, on the other hand, I also tell her that her issues ultimately are her own to come to terms with. Most men look at pornography - good men, bad men, sensitive men, shallow men....all kinds of men, and she can't allow that to perpetually make her feel bad about herself. It's nothing personal.

That said, I'm not sure if this is a situation that will ever be put right. You've questioned your boyfriend about an activity that is usually harmless and instead of being consoled by him and reassured that he finds you desirable, you've found out...something else. Perhaps I'm missing something, but how does one go about telling their girlfriend the only parts of their body that turn them on are her breasts and ass? I'm not sure how you're supposed to react favorably to that. That's not to say that he should lie to you, but no doubt it's a heavy piece of information to coalesce with a comfortable intimate relationship. Perhaps this lack of tact and the fact that he wasn't supportive about your weight loss should be throwing up some red flags...

I hate giving advice in these situations though...just food for thought. It's difficult when you don't actually know the people involved.

But I feel for you. I don't think you're over-reacting to the situation at all.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

shesus

Mixed has wise advice, as usual. Also, she is right when she mentioned it is difficult to give advice in these situations. There are usually many other issues at hand that aren't even on the table yet.

My take on this is that you have self-image issues, which a lot of people have. He enjoys looking at porn, which a lot of men do. You have your own issues, but are pushing them onto the other person.

My husband looks at porn. I'm 5'7 and 120 lbs. I have many exhibition photos. Why does he look at porn? He's a guy. I could get upset and say that he looks at it because he wishes I had bigger breasts. But I realize that him looking at porn has nothing to do with me.

Your fiance looking at porn has nothing to do with *you*. Just as you losing weight shouldn't have anything to do with *him*. You do what you want to do and he will do what he wants to do. However, you need to communicate your feelings and realize that you can only change and control *your* actions and reactions.

__________________
Whatever did happen to your soul?
I heard you sold it

Choose Heaven for the weather and Hell for the company

Starkizzer

I guess I'm of a different mind set when it comes to porn. I understand that many people men and women look at porn. I think it has a time and place to serve its purpose. Single people, people who are separated from their significant other for a length of time and other such situations.
My fiance lives in the next apartment building over (we live in campus apartments so no co-ed) I had just left his apartment went back to mine thought he was going to be heading over shortly since he was just straightening up and instead hes looking at porn. I'm a few yards away. I don't know the porn battle has been raging for years he knows it bothers me but can't give it up.
I don't know I guess maybe I should just get over it.
Thanks for the words of wisdom. They mean alot.

__________________
Frivolity, at the edge of a Moral Swamp, hears Hymn-Singing in the Distance and dons the Galoshes of Remorse. ~Edward Gorey

shesus

Yea, I was of that mindset several years ago.

I stumbled across a collection on our computer. I went to work PISSED. I was ranting and raving about how I couldn't believe he had porn. We were married and he could have sex with me whenever he wanted. How dare he have porn on his computer?!?

I was told I was over-reacting. I was certain I wasn't. In my mind, it was cheating and I was completely right to feel the way I felt.

Now, looking back, I realize I completely over-reacted. As I said before, it had nothing to do with *me*. I don't know other people's reasonings, but I realized that it wasn't worth blowing up over since every guy I've known looks at porn. I dealt with my reactions and realized that even if I walked around naked all day with whipped cream and sex toys, he'd still look at porn.

This is just something that you'll have to work through. However, his answer is what I'd be more focused on than the fact that he's looking at porn. Why did he disclose the weight concern now after all these years? The porn may possibly be a distraction from a bigger issue that needs discussed.

__________________
Whatever did happen to your soul?
I heard you sold it

Choose Heaven for the weather and Hell for the company

mixedmedia

Yez, my SO has thousands and thousands of naked pictures of me, too, but I know when he masturbates he's looking at *other* porn, lol. And like shesus said, I've never known a guy who didn't look at porn. Even before the computer age when it was all magazines and videotapes.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

ngdawg

I consider looking at porn no more important than playing WoW or something. It's a time killer that can be exciting, boring, funny or educational. It becomes a problem when it's used in place of a relationship.

I sympathize with the body issues/esteem. There's also (so it's been said), a real correlation between abuse and esteem, even if the abuser never made that connection. A kind of "damaged goods" mentality takes over.

You need to be proud of yourself. Embrace what's great, pat yourself on the back for your accomplishments and don't allow commentary to influence you and your goals.

Maybe porn bothers you because it looks like abuse? And the bf is enjoying looking at it and all the phony plastic women, which exacerbates the issue. Just guessing....but know they ARE phony plastic women, faking noise into a microphone. You are real, you are what he is attracted to and you are on a pathway to making those phony women WISH they were you.

Starkizzer

Thanks all you guys.
Part of me thinks that porn is no big deal, but part of me is disgusted that our society has the mind set that all guys look at porn, yes it may make some of us women feel like crap, but all guys do it so no harm no foul. I guess maybe this is an age thing or it has roots somewhere else.

As for my actual relationship we have sat down and talked about the issue at hand. He was mad that I forced him to tell me because he knew it would cause damage. He did say that he went about it the wrong way and that the little extra weight on my tummy is the only thing he doesn't like but he is proud of what I am doing. He apologized for not being more supportive and spent a good hour holding me and telling me the things he does like about me.

I know he is a good guy and I guess with the stresses of school and lack of time we sometimes forget to take the time to make the other person feel wanted.
I appreciate everything you guys have said. Its been five years and I don't want to throw it all away over something I guess I kinda already knew.

__________________
Frivolity, at the edge of a Moral Swamp, hears Hymn-Singing in the Distance and dons the Galoshes of Remorse. ~Edward Gorey

mixedmedia

Yay. Good to hear.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

little_tippler

I think it's interesting how this whole conversation about porn goes round and round but doesn't actually get to the centre of things, which to me is - why do guys look at porn?
Yes, I get it that they all do. Lots of women do, including myself. I can only extrapolate from my own reasons for it. I find it exciting to see others having sex. I find it exciting to look at hot naked men who I don't know and imagine stranger-sex. Overall, it's not a rational thing for me. It just gets me off. And it is separate from my everyday reality. The essential point here is, that the mind is a powerful sexual organ. That's why I can understand guys looking at porn. Of course, it doesn't help if you're feeling insecure, to find out your guy is looking at porn.

I'm not sure I understand your boyfriend. You pressed him to explain why he's looking at porn and he decides to tell you that it's because he likes to fantasize about women who are not you (proceding then to point out your flaws)? That is just mean, to me.

Maybe he was angry. But that damage is likely irreparable.

Here's the thing: I have been in a similar situation where I have been told that there are things about me the other person didn't like, after spending years together. And I recall vividly feeling sick to my stomach from then on, reliving every time we'd had sex and thinking he was actually feeling turned off simultaneously...it still makes me sick to remember. I personally will never put myself there again.

There's not much else I can say except that I think there's plenty of men out there who will take you for who you are and will, at the very least, be a lot more tactful. Sorry.

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

mixedmedia

I see porn, at best, to be a utilitarian thing. It's useful and fun.

At worst, it can lead to men and women having unreal expectations...particularly of women.

I think it's an interesting subject that I would like to talk more about...this and associated ideas have been rolling around in my head for weeks now...and I had a really interesting conversation with my daughter about it a couple of weeks ago.

But I haven't given them the attention necessary to allow them to congeal into a cohesive set of ideas...and I do have the nagging suspicion it would turn into a shitstorm, lol.

Still, I think it's worth talking about.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

KRM28152

I have a different outlook, I guess, of the porn issue. My boyfriend and I look at it together, though I have made the distinction that he (shouldn't) look at it without me.

We all know how that goes.

But when we look at it, he's usually the one getting depressed and down on his self. He feels that his package isn't as big as the guys on these porn websites and it makes him feel inadequate since "those girls seem to be enjoying it."

I don't know, I can see the usefulness of the porn industry as a teaching tool and a creative outlet but I think it's damaging to anyone that views it.

As for your personal self-esteem problems, I completely understand. I weigh 30 lbs more now than I did when my bf and I met. My sex drive has gone down because of it, and I'm having a hard time getting my mind right even though I'm trying to fix the physical part.

Love yourself, and either he'll love you too, or you can (and will) find someone that will. Confidence is the sexiest thing a woman can put on in the morning. =)

I hope this helps, I'm new at this whole "advice" thing. =)

Starkizzer

I'm still not sure how we are going to handle the porn debate in our relationship. Before we made up and he was in his pissed state of mind I asked him if his porn was so important that he was willing to hurt me over it. He, in his belligerent attitude of the moment said " I guess it is" After we both calmed down he explained that he said this because he felt that no matter what he said I would question him and turn his action back around on him.
Sexuality was not taught in his household the way it was for me. His parents are very religious and opted both he and his sister out of the typical 6th grade sex talk. The reason...they were teaching lifestyles and views they did not approve of. I think that his upbringing versus mine is where we get into some problems. Even tho he prefers how I was raised over how he was raised.
My step mom was a 6th grade teacher so I was taught all about just about everything. There are no secrets in my family and my parents taught me that some people prefer certain sex acts and that if I too liked something that I should not be ashamed of it. My fiance was taught to be ashamed of sex, so it was secret and the excitement came from getting caught I think its still the same way.
I do not disapprove of porn I think its fine in certain situations: single, being away from loved one for extended time, sexual thrill inside the relationship agreed upon by both partners,etc but I do not agree with it when it knowingly hurts one party whatever the reasons may be. I think maybe this debate comes down to his unwillingness to give up something that hurts me. I would and have given up things that hurt him.

This was sent to me in a pm by one of our male viewers who said I could post his view:
"This is an age old debate - men like to look at naked women, women like to look at naked me, lots of people like to read stories of sexuality and some people have always felt that this is in some way "cheating" on the partners.

You can get a sense of the age of the debate, by remembering that it's there in the bible (if you follow such things) that if a man looks with lust on another woman he has committed adultery in his heart.

This strand in our culture is deep-seated and incorporated at a visceral level in many of us.

It's not pornography per se that seems to be the problem here - as many have stated, pornography can form a great part of a participatory sexual relationship.

What seems to be the real problem here is that the pornography was secret and denied. That indicates a lack of truth and honesty, which hopefully this episode will bring into the open and begin a healing process."

I also think its wrong that we could be as beautiful as all hell walk around naked, offering sex anytime and they will still look at porn...why?! Its like being offered chocolate cake and saying "naw I'd rather lick the box"

__________________
Frivolity, at the edge of a Moral Swamp, hears Hymn-Singing in the Distance and dons the Galoshes of Remorse. ~Edward Gorey

diddagirl

LC- It is very understandable that you feel heartbroken...hearing that the person you love is bothered by the very things you are insecure about is crushing, I'm sure. When you really love someone, you love and accept them for everything they are; imperfections and all....
Never ever let another person (specificly a significant other) make you feel bad about yourself. You should be SO proud of your accomplishments and keep doing them for YOU... nobody else. And just be careful in the future....if he is searching for some sort of perfection-you could lose all the weight in the world and that still wouldnt be enough for him...

__________________
"Is it so small a thing to have enjoyed the sun, to have lived long in the spring, to have loved, to have thought, to have done."
-Matthew Arnold

World's Queen

Am I the only one who finds this disturbing? I feel like you are defending the things that he has said about you. There is never any reason to be ok with someone treating you like that. I'm lucky, because I have an amazing boyfriend, but he only ever tells me how perfect every part of me is. Even the parts I know I should be working on [like my stomach]. When I mention it, he kisses my stomach and tells me it's sexy. It seems like you might already have some self esteem problems, and no boyfriend should be making them worse! I'm not trying to be mean, or say that you should be leaving him. I just think that's an issue that should be addressed.
As for the porn. World's King and I look at it together. He looks at it by himself. I occasionally look at it by myself. I really can't give advice about that. If you know how much your SO loves you, it won't be a problem. I never understood jealousy of a woman in a magazine or on a TV screen.

__________________
I can resist everything but temptation.
- oscar wilde

mixedmedia

well, no you're not...

both little_tippler and myself found this to be alarming...

I think we used softer wording, though, lol...but, myself, I would be very dismayed if a boyfriend I was serious about said that to me. I don't know if I'd ever get past it...not because I'm over-sensitive or insecure but because it betrays a thoughtlessness and insensitivity that I just couldn't abide.

Sorry, LC, you probably have a much more generous sense of forgiveness than I do and that's cool.

But since World's Queen brought it up....

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Starkizzer

I realize that it does sound bad and after re-reading my post I probably should have waited to post until I had calmed down.

How it happened was that I was demanding the truth from him. When I asked him he gave me his normal answer of because masturbation is a thoughtless act and porn alows him not to think. Porn is different everytime. I pointed out well I'm always the same does he want something different in real life and he said no because sex with me is different everytime to look at our pictures he has to think about it. This didn't make sense to me and I asked him why he had to "think" about our pictures, was it because what made it easy for porn was because he didn't have to overlook a tubby tummy and he said yes. So I asked what parts of me do turn him on and he said I love all of you which is stock answer so I asked again and he wouldn't answer so I just said so the only parts of me that turn you on are my tits, ass and face? And thats when he said yes. I could tell he hated admitting this.
Since this we have sat down and talked, he has taken the time to hold me and tell me everything he loves about me, said hes proud of my weight loss and even if I didn't lose the weight he loved me just the same. He says he is dissatisfied with the way he looks and doesn't understand how I do not feel the same about him.

I am actually doing better than I thought I would be about this, I did rib him today when he grabbed me and leaned his head against my tummy and said I'm the best pillow ever. I told him it was cuz of the fat he didn't like. He chuckled and said that he never claimed he made any sense.

He sounds a lot worst in this post than he actually is. Hes a good guy and you ladies aren't the only ones who wonder. Other people, him included, say I have the patience of a saint with him. I chalk a lot of it up to delayed social skills. He was the typical nerd who played on his computer ALL the time and barely had any friends before we started dating. But as crazy as it sounds I can't give him up he is my best friend and for the damage that he may do sometimes, he has done 100x that in good.

__________________
Frivolity, at the edge of a Moral Swamp, hears Hymn-Singing in the Distance and dons the Galoshes of Remorse. ~Edward Gorey