Racism towards offshoring... - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

KnifeMissile · 11-17-2005, 03:47 PM

Here's an interesting article that I read off of Fark:

Quote:

Noida, India -- While irate calls are a mainstay of customer service work in any country, many Indian call-center workers say they regularly face particular abuse from Americans, whose tantrums are sometimes racist and often inspired by anger over outsourcing.

This vitriol has fueled a "searing anger" among the Indian employees, says Vinod Shetty, a Bombay lawyer who has formed a collective for call-center workers. "A lot of trauma is caused."

Debalina Das, 22, a computer help-line agent in the city of Hyderabad in south India, punched the button last winter for a call from the United States.

The caller greeted her with a torrent of racial and sexual slurs, accused her of "roaming about naked without food and clothes" and asked, "What do you know about computers?"

The diatribe ended with the comment:"This company is just saving money by outsourcing to Third World countries like yours."

Such telephone tirades are fueled by outrage over outsourcing, which is expected to move 3.4 million U.S. service-sector jobs overseas by 2015, according to the consultancy Forrester. Most of the work comes to India, where young, low-cost employees now handle a range of American tasks -- they draw cartoons, interpret heart scans, adjudicate insurance claims, reserve flights and chase debtors.

Das, who quit the job after four months, said she learned to dislike Americans. "Rarely, there are people who are good," she said by e-mail, "but then others remind me that all they believe in is cursing, and they don't have respect for others."

Her opinion is not uncommon among many workers in India's burgeoning call-center industry.

Relations between India and the United States have grown closer in recent years. India now sends more students to American colleges than any other country.

Indians form the wealthiest and one of the fastest-growing immigrant groups in the United States. And in the last decade, American companies have increasingly sought Indian customers and employees.

Not everyone is happy about the growing ties between the two nations. An anti-outsourcing movement has drawn wide support as layoffs continue to mount at such U.S. companies as IBM, which is cutting 13,000 jobs in Europe and the United States and adding 14,000 in India, according to the Washington Alliance of Technology Workers.

In the first three months of this year, state legislators proposed 112 bills to stanch the exodus of American jobs, according to the National Foundation for American Policy.

Some opponents of outsourcing, often fired workers themselves, have rechanneled their rage at job-slashing CEOs toward India. On the Web forum Is Your Job Going Offshore? (isyourjobgoingoffshore.com/forums/) contributors variously describe India as depraved, as a haven for terrorists, a "giant leech" and a nation of "back-stabbing cowards."

It is this kind of commentary that has shaped a perception among India's customer-care workers that Americans are intolerant. "Everybody thinks like that," said Samik Chowdhury, assistant manager at an IBM office in northern India. "Every time, it's racism only."

This attitude is not typical of most urban Indians, who tend to admire the United States for its strength and entrepreneurial spirit. In a recent 16-country Pew poll, India had the highest percentage of citizens with a favorable opinion of the United States, 71 percent.

The less favorable view, though, is beginning to seep into Indian popular culture. The scripts for a new sitcom called "The Call Center," scheduled to air this winter on the leading channel NDTV, depict Westerners as arrogant, immoral and comically rude.

The show's villain, the Indian manager of a call center, is an India-bashing blowhard, a disposition he picked up at an Ivy League business school in the United States.

One of the episodes recreates a real-life exchange that occurred in January between an American and an Indian agent that has become notorious among the call center crowd here. On the Philadelphia radio show "Star and Buc Wild," host Troi Terrain phoned an Indian call center pretending to order hair beads for his daughter. The call quickly turned vicious.

"Listen to me, you dirty rat eater," Terrain growled, to muffled laughter in the studio. "I'll come out there and choke the -- out of you. You're a filthy rat eater. I'm calling about my American 6-year-old white girl. How dare you outsource my call?"

Indian offices have taken measures to thwart such attacks: Agents typically adopt anglicized names, undergo "accent neutralization" and U.S. cultural training, and sometimes claim to be located in the United States. They are taught to suffer attacks politely and try to calm customers. Failing that, many offices now offer callers the option to be transferred to agents in the United States.

These humiliations, say observers, are tolerated by a labor force that savors the opportunity to join India's growing middle class. With monthly incomes of about $200, call-center employees live well in a country where many are poverty-stricken.

"They feel like it is their duty" to swallow insults, says labor researcher Babu Remesh.

Sumit Bhasin, a 25-year-old call-center worker for HCL BPO Technologies in the northern Indian city of Noida, says American customers tend to have an "egoistic, bossy kind of attitude." When he was young, he said, he used to dream of traveling to the United States, as many Indians do, but after working in call centers for several years, he is not so sure anymore.

However, he loves his job, because he makes $440 a month and gets to learn about high technology like routers, modems and concepts of networking.

But for others, the abuse is taking its toll.

A group of SBC call-center workers, also in Noida, sat recently on the clipped grass in front of the silver-glassed office building where they field Americans' Web connection problems. Callers often dismiss them the moment they detect their Indian accents, they say.

"A whole lot of the time, people are yelling," says Kapil Chawla, 23. "They just want to talk to an American."

Saurabh Jha, a 22-year-old in blue jeans, says a woman phoned from Texas recently and told him that, thanks to outsourcing, "You are getting money, food, shelter. You should be starving."

She berated him for 12 minutes before she finally allowed him to offer advice that promptly fixed her problem: to unplug her computer and plug it back in.

"I was speechless," he says. "She didn't even give me a chance."

Now, this isn't a story about some group of fanatics gathering together to exercise their neurosis, this is a fairly random sampling of people and their attitudes towards Indians.

Here are some of the more interesting highlights of comments to the article by farkers:

Quote:

True. I blame the American CEO that thinks sacrificing quality for a buck is a good idea and the Indian CEO that knowingly commits unqualified people to a job in the interest of leeching the US economy as long as they can hold on.

Oh, and the people who think an Indian degree is anything remotely like an American degree. Somehow every half ass Indian tech worker that has come through my office has at least one MBA from some Indian university or other. And some have PHDs. You are telling me that they can understand biochemestry and physics at a post grad level but they can't grasp simple computing concepts?

This was in response to a reasonable post saying that if you're angry about offshoring, then blame the American CEO that chose to offshore the work. Notice how this post latches onto a reasonable post in an attempt to give its own viewpoint an heir of reasonability but goes on to insult India in ways other than offshoring work. They probably haven't ever met a PhD graduate because it's pretty easy to be an expert of one field and know nothing about another. Hell, there are plenty of software engineers who couldn't swap a video card...

There are several responses like this, where they assume tech support people need some kind of qualification or expertise. The reality is that "tech support" is considered unskilled labour, like janitorial work. The vast majority of problems can be solved with nothing more than a checklist of things you were supposed to do but may have forgotten or misunderstood. Any "real" problems are either not supported or forwarded to one of a handfull of skilled people. Why can't this be done in India?

Quote:

Maybe they're rude because they're tired of reps who say their name is "Chris" and barely speak English. If you don't like it, get your own economy and stop taking 'mercin jerbs.

As if there's any real reason to be rude...

Quote:

I don't believe blaming the company is worthwhile either. Evolve or Die... outsourcing is throwing away old methods and evolving more economical ones. To complain about the human factor is just odd... it is well known that business is there for money not to make you happy.

Welcome to the free market economy, people. If it is cheaper to import something or oursource something, it will be done. If you don't like the service, then don't give them your money.

For People to go to Dell because they are the cheap, then complain about the cheapness of their support, is just plain silly.

I actually think this is reasonable and it is shown here for its own interest.

I'm a little surprised by the content of the article but I'm probably even more surprised by the responses given on Fark! So much so that it made me curious as to what TFP'ers think...

cyrnel · 11-17-2005, 03:55 PM

I'm not suggesting it explains everything, but language barriers can bring out the worst in people. Combine it with surprise at buying 'Muruhkin but being shunted overseas for assistance, and I could see a fair percentage of people I've known falling prey to their dark side.

Edit: Remember, these people are calling a helpline. They were frustrated to begin with.

Psycho Dad · 11-17-2005, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyrnel

I'm not suggesting it explains everything, but language barriers can bring out the worst in people.
Edit: Remember, these people are calling a helpline. They were frustrated to begin with.

Frustration. I think that is the biggest part of it. Turn the table and have someone from India calling America for help and I think you would see the same thing in reverse.

jorgelito · 11-17-2005, 04:07 PM

But people are still blaming the wrong group - It's a classic "Don't hate the player, hate the game" example

cyrnel · 11-17-2005, 04:08 PM

The player is the one wearing the headset.

lurkette · 11-17-2005, 04:14 PM

Given that something like only 14% of Americans even OWN a passport, let alone have actually travelled overseas, I'm not surprised that ignorance + frustration + nationalism = vitriol spewed at the people who make it possible for us to get cheap cheap consumer goods. People are stupid and ungrateful, on the whole. Especially people who have come to believe that they are entitled to everything they want, now now now.

cyrnel · 11-17-2005, 04:15 PM

Call center agents must have tough skins. Freaking out or responding in kind because they hear profanity or anything else offensive does not a long career make. It's a parasitic burnout profession anyway, but training has to include serving alternate cultures and demographics. Difficult customers are part of that game.

If Dell is hiring call centers that don't have this nailed then they must have stooped to outsourcing their outsourcing. (seriously)

martinguerre · 11-17-2005, 06:02 PM

when i was on front desk duty for a senate office...the rule was that you got off the line if they cussed at you, and you stayed on the line if they threatened you.

you usually got more angry if you did the former, a visit from the FBI if you did the latter.

i'm harsh with help line people if the situation requires it, but why make it personal?

Destrox · 11-17-2005, 06:22 PM

Not that I approve of racism in any way, I can fully understand how this is being possible.

You try to call these places for HELP and end up talking to some person who you can barely make out every 4 words they speak. This ignites your already current situation and sadly can bring out the worse of some people.

Maybe this'll make some companies to actually open their eyes and realize out-sourcing doesn’t always solve the problem.

I personally cannot stand having to call a tech center, let alone to call a tech center and not even understand what the person is saying. At my University we have TONS of people from India and Japan, and I've met plenty of people from other nationalities. I have to admit that those with accents from India are truly the hardest to understand just what the hell they are saying.

But I'm also hugely against outsourcing even if it means more expensive products, so my opinion is biased.

fresnelly · 11-17-2005, 06:31 PM

I recently called tech support for an issue with my wireless router (I'm proud to say it was a "real" problem and not just unplugged) and was very impressed with the level of service I received. The agent spoke fluent english with a mild accent and was very polite. He may have been working from a script, but by the end we had developed quite a repore and chatted amiably.

I appreciate the frustration at outsourcing, but there's no excuse to spew racist garbage at the employees. They're just trying to support themselves the best they can.

That sitcom sounds like a hoot! I'd love to see an episode.

Randerolf · 11-17-2005, 08:18 PM

Americans have become fat and lazy. I say this as an American.

When I was a child, my family would go to the mall just to have air conditioning in hot, humid Florida. My father worked hard so my mother could stay at home and he worked his way up from sweeping floors to a decent pay. He taught me the value of hard work, quality work, and respect for the customer.

Today my countrymen feel entitled to jobs and my business, forsaking my father’s values – the values that helped build the American economy. They are fat and arrogant.

Later, my father’s plant was moved to Mexico by his new multinational. From what I hear, it was a failure. Interestingly, I’m all for free trade. Thomas Jefferson said in his inaugural address that America's citizens are not American from birth, but from sharing the same ideas.(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_...n#Inauguration) My true countrymen are not those who were lucky enough to be born on this land – they have forfeited their grandparent’s values of Elis Island and the Great Depression. My comrades, sadly, are a million miles away. They are new kids on the block. Hungry. Hard working.

I can't wait to have a polite, hardworking Indian help me over the phone rather than some jackass that is lazy and rude.

Honestly, I’m trying to get a hold of Indian politeness training to enhance my own work as a waiter.

Here is an article in Esquire highlighting the difference that customer service and courtesy is making in India. The writer outsources as much of his life as he can:

Quote:

I REALLY SHOULDN'T HAVE to write this article myself. I mean, why am I the one stuck in front of a computer terminal? All this tedious pecking out of words on my laptop. Nouns, verbs, adjectives, prepositions. Jesus. What a pain in my ass. Can't someone else do it? Can't I delegate this to one of my new assistants and spend my day kicking back on a chaise lounge, Sam Adams in hand, admiring Mischa Barton's navel on my TV?

What about having Asha write it? Or Sunder, Vivek, or Mr. Naveen? Or best of all, my sweet, sweet Honey? Pretty much anyone on my overseas staff will do.

http://www.smartmoney.com/esquire/in...source&pgnum=1

filtherton · 11-17-2005, 08:36 PM

Why are you surprised by moronic responses on fark?

billege · 11-17-2005, 10:19 PM

Ditto on being surprised at the lack of intelligence shown on Fark.

This is a thread where I feel qualified to put forth an informed opinion.

My job is 1st level support in a retail giant’s (over $50 billion in revenue) distribution chain. That means my primary duty is escalating a good 80% of the issues we see to higher level support groups. Guess what that means? It means the support groups are offshore, and guess where offshore is?

When I was in college for my tech AS, lots of my instructors were Indian. Given the exposure, I got pretty good with the accent. Now, I’ve lost a lot of that familiarity. That is, until the phone rings with a support group calling back about a ticket.

Is it hard to understand the Indian callers? Well, yes it is. I understand the women easier than men for some reason. I often have to ask them to repeat themselves. It’s a fair bet that’s as frustrating for them as it is me. I feel jerkish when it’s the 3rd time they’ve said something, and I still have no idea what they’ve said. To my ear, they speak really fast. Once they’ve slowed down, I can get it. It also seems they have a hard time understanding what I’m trying to tell them.

Is this frustrating? Well, yes it is. Both for clients and me, it adds another challenge to a situation that’s already frustrating. Something is broken, we need help. We and the help can’t understand each other. Yes, it can be emotionally frustrating.

So, what do we do? Well, we know that berating our support partners would be a foolish and unwise solution. It’d also be very unprofessional. Once we know someone has taken ownership of the ticket, I’ll hop in there to get the owner’s name. Then I use either email or IM to communicate with the Indian support partner; and, often I use this method to get the client in touch with support.

It takes extra effort, but those people are doing a job, just like we are. Being jerks about it won’t help anyone.

hulk · 11-18-2005, 01:03 AM

The company I work for was the first in it's field to head to Bangalore in this country (and because most of the offshore interest is located in Bangalore, the city is apparently really great - nothing like most people imagine India to be).

'Course, working in debt collection means they don't have a choice, but if most people get over the fact they're speaking to someone overseas and calmed the fuck down they'd be able to speak fine, for the most part. Helps to remember that if you're having trouble the person on the other end of the line probably isn't enjoying themselves too much, either.

Many people call up with the sole intention of being abusive, and they latch onto the accents first.

maleficent · 11-18-2005, 06:30 AM

I vented a few weeks back about calling my credit card company to report that I didn't get my new card. I was talking to Mike (no way was it his real name) and he never listened to me, and I could barely understand him. He spent a good 10 minutes trying to upsell me on services that i clearly stated i didn't want... At one point - i lost my patience (which granted isn't difficult these days) and asked the guy what part of I'm not interested are you having a problem understanding. Yes, he was doing his job... but when I call other credit card companies - a simple I'm not interested stops teh spiel.. Mike didn't get it... Does that make me racist? By some standards probably.. but I would have said exactly the same thing if Mike was actually from Wisconsin and spoke perfect english.

I was calling them for a relatively minor problem, i can understand how someone calling for a real problem that they needed solved NOW could get frustrated when the person who's supposed to be trying to help you... isn't able to communicate to you.

Calling a help desk is never a pleasant experience.. thankfully for work computers we can bypass the entry level position and go directly to someone who is knowledgeable and not reading from a script.

Our parent company is outsourcing to India one of the products that we develop. It's technically cheaper to do this rather than paying US engineers. the problem with the outsourcing though.. is that incredible amounts of time is being spent writing the spec on exactly what the software does - in pretty much any situation - in order for the engineers in india to be able to write the code. (it's actually a lot easier to writ ethe code than it is to write the spec) Once the spec is written.. then the code is locked down and no changes will be possible.. that's not gonna make a lot of customers happy. from where we're sitting -- Offshoring is penny wise but dollar foolish.

guthmund · 11-18-2005, 06:38 AM

So...people are rude? I'm shocked

I think, hulk hit there in that last little line.

I don't think it has as much to do with the fact that they're talking to Indians in a 'far away land,' but rather a smug sense of superiority on the caller's part because they're dealing with a 'lesser' person. period. I'm sure anyone who has worked in any service industry has dozens of different stories, each more horrible than the last.

Racist remarks and so forth are just the easiest way to insult. It's a lot easier to call them 'camel-jockeys and dot-heads' and accuse them of 'stealin' American jobs' than to put forward a reasonable argument against offshoring.

Charlatan · 11-18-2005, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fresnelly

I recently called tech support for an issue with my wireless router (I'm proud to say it was a "real" problem and not just unplugged) and was very impressed with the level of service I received. The agent spoke fluent english with a mild accent and was very polite. He may have been working from a script, but by the end we had developed quite a repore and chatted amiably.

I appreciate the frustration at outsourcing, but there's no excuse to spew racist garbage at the employees. They're just trying to support themselves the best they can.

That sitcom sounds like a hoot! I'd love to see an episode.

I could have written this post myself.

I've only had one case where I couldn't understand the person at the call centre and that had more to with the bad phone connection than any accent. I've always recieved fast, polite and accurate service from Indian call centres... we usually end up chatting about how cold it is where I am and who warm it is there.

The accents do not bother me but then I hear accented speech all the time. Not only do many of my clients have accents but the sound of Toronto is accented.

I understand the frustration that people have with call centres, I've been there to be sure BUT this person is usually trying to help you and isn't really responsible for your problem. Get over yourself. Yelling and insulting the call centre is like shooting the messenger. You just shot the wrong guy.

I do agree with Mal about the upsell thing though. All I want is what I called for... if I say no once I don't want to have to say it again.

Destrox · 11-18-2005, 07:30 AM

Come to think about it, your own location would have a huge part of it in determining how well you'll understand other accents.

Such as where I live, north-western PA, we are said to have the most non-accented speach in the US. So we are able to pick up differences in speech from others, and might have a higher chance of not understanding it since we dont get much practice at it.

Its just a theory, and not a excuse for what the article is about.

FatFreeGoodness · 11-18-2005, 08:12 AM

People are rude to help desk personnel for many reasons:
1 Some people are rude to everyone.
2 People are more likely to be rude when they are irritated; they are likely irritated when they have a problem.
3 Any assistance is likely to be less effective when the caller and recipient share neither a native language or culture, and thus have difficulty communicating.
4 Help desks are notorious for having people on hold, transferring repeatedly, and not being able to help. People are already on a hair trigger, ready to see a problem.
5 People are more likely to vent on a faceless person in a large corporation than to someone working for a small local firm. The more faceless the better. It doesn't get much more faceless than outsourced helpdesk for a gigantic multinational.
--and so on, and so on.

Also consider this:
Help desk people here are near the bottom of the pecking order, and know it. Even the ones with high technical skills know that the profession as a whole gets dumped on. They expect it.
But in India, these people are very well paid professionals, respected in the community. I think this makes it harder to take crap from idiots. This may not be logical, but it is true. A given man may be manual labor or a company president, depending on circumstances in his life. (I’ve been both.) The man is the same in both cases, but for some reason is more likely to tolerate verbal abuse as a laborer than as president.

Cynthetiq · 11-18-2005, 08:23 AM

irony....

many british people feel that Indian Doctors are some of the best in the world...

having met a number of Indians in the Call Center areas... there are nice COLLEGE STUDENTS. Most schoold during the day and then work OVERNIGHT because that's when it's 9-5 in America.

Do american students push themselves as hard? I seem to recall an 18 yr old suing her mom for Child Support since it was "hard to work and go to school."

BigBen · 11-18-2005, 08:47 AM

I have had occasion to listen to Americans speak.

In My Humble Opinion, and as a GENERALIZATION, I think Americans speak very slowly and very plainly.

I get frustrated with the speech patterns quickly, and end up cutting them off... "Yeah, yeah, okay, I know what you are going to say. SPEED IT UP, MAN!"

But I would never lose my cool over something as simple as a help-desk phone call or not understanding an accent.

There are better things in this world to get upset about. Maybe that is another thing the US has to understand. You guys get riled up over the smallest things.

hilbert25 · 11-18-2005, 09:03 AM

There is a difference in degrees. Just as MIT is more prestigious than East LA City College, most top tier American institutions will beat out schools in most any other country. Now this is just personal experience, but I have never dealt with someone who was completely educated in an outsourcing (india, pakistan, Turkey, etc.) country that was anywhere near as competent as anyone that I went to college with. I've dealt with outsourced engineers, customer service, tech support, you name it. The people that I know from these countries that are for the most part American educated, I have never had a problem with. This might make me nationalist, but not racist.

Of course, this is only a tiny percantage of people from India, no more so than true racists in America probably, but I've never seen as much outright racism as from people that were in an upper caste in India. I've known parents that broke up their daughter's engagement with a friend of mine (with a PHD) because he was lower caste. I've seen people say that all of the lower caste people deserve to be poor because they're more stupid and lazy and ugly. People that would shower immediately if anyone "lower" touched them. These kinds of things come from otherwise reasonable people.

pig · 11-18-2005, 10:05 AM

The accents don't bother me - what does bother me is the phone tree. I would be that if you went straight to a human, or at least went faster, a large amount of the rudeness would be cut down. To wade through the tree for half an hour, wait on the line for half and hour, and then get some guy named "Sam"....I'm guessing by the time you hit Sam, you're ready to chew nails. I've only really torn the ass out of one Dell customer rep, but it was after months of sluggish response from Dell. The people I spoke to from India weren't the problem. I'd tell them up front that it wasn't personal...then rip the shit out of the way that Dell crapped out its service contracts in the past few years.

I heard somewhere that some companies actually made their phone trees more frustrating, as research had shown that many people tended to just hang out and not follow up. I don't know if it's necessarily true, and I don't have a hard link to it...but it wouldn't surprise me.

StanT · 11-18-2005, 10:50 AM

I'm polite to help desks up to the point where they won't deviate from their script when it is obviously appropriate. I don't care if they are in Bangalore or Dallas and I don't care if their name is Sam or Sunnit. I want prompt competent assistance, adequate communication skills, and an understanding that the script doesn't cover all circumstances.

If there are sparks and smoke coming from the power supply, asking me about the operating system is just going to piss me off.

flstf · 11-18-2005, 10:51 AM

I have spent some time recently with Indian computer support. The language barrier is a problem but can usually be overcome with some patience and it is counter-productive to get angry if you want to solve your problem. I imagine that in time they will get better and better with our language.

My biggest complaint is that with technical problems it is difficult enough to communicate with people who speak your language perfectly. The person on the helpline has to understand your problem before thay can begin to help. The little nuances of the language get lost in the translation and the language itself becomes a problem.

I used to do a lot of troubleshooting of complicated computer control systems over the phone with other English speaking people and quite often it would take a while to understand what was happening on the other end. I remember one time I was working through a computer problem with a plant operator on the phone and I told him to hit F11. He told me he did but that it was still not working and he was getting frustrated. After I had him hit F11 for about the 6th time he got angry and said out loud "OK, for the 10th time here goes, F-one-one".

canuckguy · 11-18-2005, 11:09 AM

I've worked tech support phone jobs before, and it was outsourced from an American company to Canada. I speak perfect English, white, no accent (except for the Canadian part eh) and I have experience both sides of this issue.

First off, on the rude issue. Well I use to have people call (all calls were from the states) and if they did comment on the whole language thing, it fell into these areas. First people would say, "wow it is so nice to speak to an American”, "thank god your not indian"...etc I'd say it was a regular occurrence. Some were funny, they would ask if you were American, I would say no, and tell them I am Canadian. And they would say they weren't surprised I was not an American because I was so nice. Also some people would be upset that I was in Canada as well and not the states, taking an American’s job away, that was very rare.

Now that is all usual stuff, but I also had to transfer customers directly to other tech companies for other issues. A warm transfer meaning the customer now has both me and the new tech on the same call. Some of these transfers were to India and also back to the united states.
I'd say about 90% of the time if were calling India, the customer would comment about the accent and express frustrations in understanding. Most of those calls I could understand the person from India but the customer could not. I would assume that some of those times maybe it was a connection issue, but allot of it was just clear not understanding.

People would get pissed off quick and I could see how it was frustrating. When I could not understand, usually I would just hang up immediately and call right back. You can sense when it was going to go nowhere. The India people though were always super nice and I felt that they were generally trying to help as best they were trained and instructed to do.
We also transferred calls to centers in the united states.

Now most of the employee's in my center had a negative opinion about the workers in the American call centers. No language issues of course, but allot of problems with lazy work, not willing to help…Etc. Not all the centers or agents you reached were bad, but allot (30-40% guestimate), although I don't blame the workers, very low wages and just lack of training/high turnover. In my office we were making double easily what most of they were getting. If you wanted me to do their job at that wage, well you would have got the same effort out of me too be honest. The tech job that I was doing was the upper level of support and you needed allot of experience and knowledge hence the pay.

But the Americans we were transferring back to other Americans were sometimes not very happy with the effort as well. But still not even close to what levels they could reach on the India agents.

Myself as a customer calling a place like your ISP or bank, I try and kill'em with kindness, and try and not to make them talk by making small talk. I just ask very short questions and try and be nice about it. I like to word my questions as if the agent and I are on one team and the company is the bad guy. If that does not get me were I need to be, then I'll wait for the call to be almost done, and then say "hey, you did a great job answering my questions, the last time I called I did not get any help, is there a supervisor I can talk to and tell them what a great job you did?" works all the time, supervisor gets on the phone, tell them what a great job the employee did "trying to help" and now get straight with the supervisor. They get paid more than that poor agent just trying to do what little they are allow to do, and tell that supervisor, exactly what you want or need done. Works like a charm most times.

As well just an fyi, ANY time your calling a company and you must get transferred, ask the person you are talking with to stay on the line and conference you in until you get through. Helps allot in making sure your issue gets resolved quickly as you can multiple people on the line instead of being transferred back and forth.

I'd still say that most times the american's I talked to were very nice, but it really does vary huge from state to state. People calling from the Mass. (sp?) area always seemed pissed off even if they weren't. And people from virgina were very apologetic for calling and bothering you. Generally nice people.
(hope this made sense, just smoke a bit of the funny stuff, I am kid free today)

JustJess · 11-18-2005, 11:12 AM

I have no problem with outsourcing - it's practical whether we like it or not.

Now, just to preface... I'm the Immigration Coordinator at a hospital. I deal with a LOT of people with heavy accents, and different cultures, and a wide range of needs. I enjoy meeting these people and helping them.

Now then... When I'm all upset at whatever petty ante shit I'm upset at a company for, whatever's gone wrong... getting someone who DOES NOT UNDERSTAND ME is just plain frustrating. It makes me madder. But let's be honest... there are some very frustrating people working customer service phone lines here in the States. They come across as rude, dumb, purposely hindering jerks. That's because I'm already pissed off. Still don't yell at them, tho.

In the outsourcing cases... I do not shout at the person. I do not scream. I realize that it's not HIS/HER fault per se (but they shouldn't take a job that they're not qualified for, i.e. speaking English)... But I do ask to speak to someone else.

Because they're just doing their job as best they can. Even if that job sucks, and the job is to be difficult.

AngelicVampire · 11-18-2005, 01:56 PM

I don't mind who answers the phone as long as they are competent. Phoned up about our broadband connection once (did actually go through to India), the computers all worked, the network worked, the router worked all I wanted was the DNS numbers for my internet provider... the conversation took half an hour.

Me: Hello ... I have recently signed up for X however have not yet recieved the modem, is it possible to get the DNS server addresses for the network (you had to specify these yourelf in the modem).

X: Hello, what is the problem...

repeat... interspercing computer related problems (they tried to make me unplug computers and stuff!).

finally:

X: Are you sure the DNS numbers are set to...

Its a nightmare, if the staff knew what they were doing it would be excellent... phoned up Microsoft once, had an XXXXX error... immediately they said what it was, what was wrong and what to do... really nice situation, no is the computer on (which I had once, I was sitting reading them the error messages, had gone through the settings with them, confirmed the computer was on and the conversation went something like: "Double click X", "ok double clicked", "Does Y appear", "No". "Is your computer turned on", "Yes, how else can I double click X?", "Did you make sure the power supply was connected?"... I hung up!)

waltert · 11-18-2005, 01:56 PM

not being able to understand someone is probably one of the most frustrating things ever.

I get irritated with my girlfriend when i cant understand her on the phone.

and i have not had very good experience with tech support (of any nationality) since i have a fair set of tech knowledge. I usually spend half an hour on hold and half an hour going through steps i've already done. many issues go "unresolved" and will usually end up with me returning the hardware or uninstalling, etc and starting all over.

needless to say its not very nice to bring racism into the mix, and quite pointless...especially since the people doing it (racist remarks) are typically uneducated,unrefined, etc.

Astrocloud · 11-18-2005, 04:32 PM

As someone who has been outsourced myself AND as someone who very recently has been forced to call people that requested information:

These indians who complain about rudeness to them are just taking it too hard. Americans are rude on the phone to anybody. As part of my most recent job -I reply to people requesting information and get the most dumb-ass, rude responses.

"Don't hate the player hate the game" -Indeed.

Nimetic · 11-19-2005, 02:45 PM

I'm not surprised really. This was on the cards for a long time - and we had early reports of it.

I have no problems with Indians. Urrr... well ok, sometimes I have moments of cultural frustration with recent migrants - but generally speaking, I'd prefer to deal with a smart Indian than a stupid person of another nationality, and vice versa.

In this case we're getting people who are paid to follow a script though.

I'm a little less keen on companies that outsource services - particularly those who employ cold callers to sell me stuff. (I usually hear from Indians in this situation).

jorgelito · 11-19-2005, 06:12 PM

Rudeness is one thing but racism is a whole other ballgame.

Still, the blame should not be in the "Indians" etc but on those who hired them (outsourced) to them. Go picket in front of Dell, not make racist attacks. It's that simple.

hrandani · 11-21-2005, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorgelito

Rudeness is one thing but racism is a whole other ballgame.

Still, the blame should not be in the "Indians" etc but on those who hired them (outsourced) to them. Go picket in front of Dell, not make racist attacks. It's that simple.

That's really the scam, isn't it. People are lashing out at the techs, and not the company that's responsible.

Sigh.

I'll never buy Dell.

11-17-2005, 03:55 PM	#2 (permalink)
cyrnel Adequate Location: In my angry-dome.	I'm not suggesting it explains everything, but language barriers can bring out the worst in people. Combine it with surprise at buying 'Muruhkin but being shunted overseas for assistance, and I could see a fair percentage of people I've known falling prey to their dark side. Edit: Remember, these people are calling a helpline. They were frustrated to begin with. __________________ There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195 Last edited by cyrnel; 11-17-2005 at 04:02 PM..

11-17-2005, 04:08 PM	#5 (permalink)
cyrnel Adequate Location: In my angry-dome.	The player is the one wearing the headset. __________________ There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

11-17-2005, 04:14 PM	#6 (permalink)
lurkette My future is coming on Moderator Emeritus Location: east of the sun and west of the moon	Given that something like only 14% of Americans even OWN a passport, let alone have actually travelled overseas, I'm not surprised that ignorance + frustration + nationalism = vitriol spewed at the people who make it possible for us to get cheap cheap consumer goods. People are stupid and ungrateful, on the whole. Especially people who have come to believe that they are entitled to everything they want, now now now. __________________ "If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." - Anatole France

11-17-2005, 04:15 PM	#7 (permalink)
cyrnel Adequate Location: In my angry-dome.	Call center agents must have tough skins. Freaking out or responding in kind because they hear profanity or anything else offensive does not a long career make. It's a parasitic burnout profession anyway, but training has to include serving alternate cultures and demographics. Difficult customers are part of that game. If Dell is hiring call centers that don't have this nailed then they must have stooped to outsourcing their outsourcing. (seriously) __________________ There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

11-17-2005, 06:02 PM	#8 (permalink)
martinguerre whosoever Location: New England	when i was on front desk duty for a senate office...the rule was that you got off the line if they cussed at you, and you stayed on the line if they threatened you. you usually got more angry if you did the former, a visit from the FBI if you did the latter. i'm harsh with help line people if the situation requires it, but why make it personal? __________________ For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life. -John 3:16

11-17-2005, 04:07 PM	#4 (permalink)
jorgelito All important elusive independent swing voter... Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia	But people are still blaming the wrong group - It's a classic "Don't hate the player, hate the game" example

11-17-2005, 06:22 PM	#9 (permalink)
Destrox Metal and Rock 4 Life Location: Phoenix	Not that I approve of racism in any way, I can fully understand how this is being possible. You try to call these places for HELP and end up talking to some person who you can barely make out every 4 words they speak. This ignites your already current situation and sadly can bring out the worse of some people. Maybe this'll make some companies to actually open their eyes and realize out-sourcing doesn’t always solve the problem. I personally cannot stand having to call a tech center, let alone to call a tech center and not even understand what the person is saying. At my University we have TONS of people from India and Japan, and I've met plenty of people from other nationalities. I have to admit that those with accents from India are truly the hardest to understand just what the hell they are saying. But I'm also hugely against outsourcing even if it means more expensive products, so my opinion is biased. __________________ You bore me.... next.

11-17-2005, 06:31 PM	#10 (permalink)
fresnelly Functionally Appropriate Location: Toronto	I recently called tech support for an issue with my wireless router (I'm proud to say it was a "real" problem and not just unplugged) and was very impressed with the level of service I received. The agent spoke fluent english with a mild accent and was very polite. He may have been working from a script, but by the end we had developed quite a repore and chatted amiably. I appreciate the frustration at outsourcing, but there's no excuse to spew racist garbage at the employees. They're just trying to support themselves the best they can. That sitcom sounds like a hoot! I'd love to see an episode. __________________ Building an artificial intelligence that appreciates Mozart is easy. Building an A.I. that appreciates a theme restaurant is the real challenge - Kit Roebuck - Nine Planets Without Intelligent Life

11-17-2005, 08:36 PM	#12 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	Why are you surprised by moronic responses on fark?

11-17-2005, 10:19 PM	#13 (permalink)
billege Watcher Location: Ohio	Ditto on being surprised at the lack of intelligence shown on Fark. This is a thread where I feel qualified to put forth an informed opinion. My job is 1st level support in a retail giant’s (over $50 billion in revenue) distribution chain. That means my primary duty is escalating a good 80% of the issues we see to higher level support groups. Guess what that means? It means the support groups are offshore, and guess where offshore is? When I was in college for my tech AS, lots of my instructors were Indian. Given the exposure, I got pretty good with the accent. Now, I’ve lost a lot of that familiarity. That is, until the phone rings with a support group calling back about a ticket. Is it hard to understand the Indian callers? Well, yes it is. I understand the women easier than men for some reason. I often have to ask them to repeat themselves. It’s a fair bet that’s as frustrating for them as it is me. I feel jerkish when it’s the 3rd time they’ve said something, and I still have no idea what they’ve said. To my ear, they speak really fast. Once they’ve slowed down, I can get it. It also seems they have a hard time understanding what I’m trying to tell them. Is this frustrating? Well, yes it is. Both for clients and me, it adds another challenge to a situation that’s already frustrating. Something is broken, we need help. We and the help can’t understand each other. Yes, it can be emotionally frustrating. So, what do we do? Well, we know that berating our support partners would be a foolish and unwise solution. It’d also be very unprofessional. Once we know someone has taken ownership of the ticket, I’ll hop in there to get the owner’s name. Then I use either email or IM to communicate with the Indian support partner; and, often I use this method to get the client in touch with support. It takes extra effort, but those people are doing a job, just like we are. Being jerks about it won’t help anyone. __________________ I can sum up the clash of religion in one sentence: "My Invisible Friend is better than your Invisible Friend."

11-18-2005, 01:03 AM	#14 (permalink)
hulk C'mon, just blow it. Location: Perth, Australia	The company I work for was the first in it's field to head to Bangalore in this country (and because most of the offshore interest is located in Bangalore, the city is apparently really great - nothing like most people imagine India to be). 'Course, working in debt collection means they don't have a choice, but if most people get over the fact they're speaking to someone overseas and calmed the fuck down they'd be able to speak fine, for the most part. Helps to remember that if you're having trouble the person on the other end of the line probably isn't enjoying themselves too much, either. Many people call up with the sole intention of being abusive, and they latch onto the accents first. __________________ "'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex." -- From an IGN game review.

11-18-2005, 06:30 AM	#15 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	I vented a few weeks back about calling my credit card company to report that I didn't get my new card. I was talking to Mike (no way was it his real name) and he never listened to me, and I could barely understand him. He spent a good 10 minutes trying to upsell me on services that i clearly stated i didn't want... At one point - i lost my patience (which granted isn't difficult these days) and asked the guy what part of I'm not interested are you having a problem understanding. Yes, he was doing his job... but when I call other credit card companies - a simple I'm not interested stops teh spiel.. Mike didn't get it... Does that make me racist? By some standards probably.. but I would have said exactly the same thing if Mike was actually from Wisconsin and spoke perfect english. I was calling them for a relatively minor problem, i can understand how someone calling for a real problem that they needed solved NOW could get frustrated when the person who's supposed to be trying to help you... isn't able to communicate to you. Calling a help desk is never a pleasant experience.. thankfully for work computers we can bypass the entry level position and go directly to someone who is knowledgeable and not reading from a script. Our parent company is outsourcing to India one of the products that we develop. It's technically cheaper to do this rather than paying US engineers. the problem with the outsourcing though.. is that incredible amounts of time is being spent writing the spec on exactly what the software does - in pretty much any situation - in order for the engineers in india to be able to write the code. (it's actually a lot easier to writ ethe code than it is to write the spec) Once the spec is written.. then the code is locked down and no changes will be possible.. that's not gonna make a lot of customers happy. from where we're sitting -- Offshoring is penny wise but dollar foolish. __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

11-18-2005, 06:38 AM	#16 (permalink)
guthmund big damn hero	So...people are rude? I'm shocked I think, hulk hit there in that last little line. I don't think it has as much to do with the fact that they're talking to Indians in a 'far away land,' but rather a smug sense of superiority on the caller's part because they're dealing with a 'lesser' person. period. I'm sure anyone who has worked in any service industry has dozens of different stories, each more horrible than the last. Racist remarks and so forth are just the easiest way to insult. It's a lot easier to call them 'camel-jockeys and dot-heads' and accuse them of 'stealin' American jobs' than to put forward a reasonable argument against offshoring. __________________ No signature. None. Seriously.

11-18-2005, 07:30 AM	#18 (permalink)
Destrox Metal and Rock 4 Life Location: Phoenix	Come to think about it, your own location would have a huge part of it in determining how well you'll understand other accents. Such as where I live, north-western PA, we are said to have the most non-accented speach in the US. So we are able to pick up differences in speech from others, and might have a higher chance of not understanding it since we dont get much practice at it. Its just a theory, and not a excuse for what the article is about. __________________ You bore me.... next.

11-18-2005, 08:12 AM	#19 (permalink)
FatFreeGoodness Tilted	People are rude to help desk personnel for many reasons: 1 Some people are rude to everyone. 2 People are more likely to be rude when they are irritated; they are likely irritated when they have a problem. 3 Any assistance is likely to be less effective when the caller and recipient share neither a native language or culture, and thus have difficulty communicating. 4 Help desks are notorious for having people on hold, transferring repeatedly, and not being able to help. People are already on a hair trigger, ready to see a problem. 5 People are more likely to vent on a faceless person in a large corporation than to someone working for a small local firm. The more faceless the better. It doesn't get much more faceless than outsourced helpdesk for a gigantic multinational. --and so on, and so on. Also consider this: Help desk people here are near the bottom of the pecking order, and know it. Even the ones with high technical skills know that the profession as a whole gets dumped on. They expect it. But in India, these people are very well paid professionals, respected in the community. I think this makes it harder to take crap from idiots. This may not be logical, but it is true. A given man may be manual labor or a company president, depending on circumstances in his life. (I’ve been both.) The man is the same in both cases, but for some reason is more likely to tolerate verbal abuse as a laborer than as president.

11-18-2005, 08:23 AM	#20 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	irony.... many british people feel that Indian Doctors are some of the best in the world... having met a number of Indians in the Call Center areas... there are nice COLLEGE STUDENTS. Most schoold during the day and then work OVERNIGHT because that's when it's 9-5 in America. Do american students push themselves as hard? I seem to recall an 18 yr old suing her mom for Child Support since it was "hard to work and go to school." __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

11-18-2005, 08:47 AM	#21 (permalink)
BigBen Comedian Location: Use the search button	I have had occasion to listen to Americans speak. In My Humble Opinion, and as a GENERALIZATION, I think Americans speak very slowly and very plainly. I get frustrated with the speech patterns quickly, and end up cutting them off... "Yeah, yeah, okay, I know what you are going to say. SPEED IT UP, MAN!" But I would never lose my cool over something as simple as a help-desk phone call or not understanding an accent. There are better things in this world to get upset about. Maybe that is another thing the US has to understand. You guys get riled up over the smallest things. __________________ 3.141592654 Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.

11-18-2005, 09:03 AM	#22 (permalink)
hilbert25 Psycho Location: nOvA	There is a difference in degrees. Just as MIT is more prestigious than East LA City College, most top tier American institutions will beat out schools in most any other country. Now this is just personal experience, but I have never dealt with someone who was completely educated in an outsourcing (india, pakistan, Turkey, etc.) country that was anywhere near as competent as anyone that I went to college with. I've dealt with outsourced engineers, customer service, tech support, you name it. The people that I know from these countries that are for the most part American educated, I have never had a problem with. This might make me nationalist, but not racist. Of course, this is only a tiny percantage of people from India, no more so than true racists in America probably, but I've never seen as much outright racism as from people that were in an upper caste in India. I've known parents that broke up their daughter's engagement with a friend of mine (with a PHD) because he was lower caste. I've seen people say that all of the lower caste people deserve to be poor because they're more stupid and lazy and ugly. People that would shower immediately if anyone "lower" touched them. These kinds of things come from otherwise reasonable people.

11-18-2005, 10:05 AM	#23 (permalink)
pig pigglet pigglet Location: Locash	The accents don't bother me - what does bother me is the phone tree. I would be that if you went straight to a human, or at least went faster, a large amount of the rudeness would be cut down. To wade through the tree for half an hour, wait on the line for half and hour, and then get some guy named "Sam"....I'm guessing by the time you hit Sam, you're ready to chew nails. I've only really torn the ass out of one Dell customer rep, but it was after months of sluggish response from Dell. The people I spoke to from India weren't the problem. I'd tell them up front that it wasn't personal...then rip the shit out of the way that Dell crapped out its service contracts in the past few years. I heard somewhere that some companies actually made their phone trees more frustrating, as research had shown that many people tended to just hang out and not follow up. I don't know if it's necessarily true, and I don't have a hard link to it...but it wouldn't surprise me. __________________ You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

11-18-2005, 10:50 AM	#24 (permalink)
StanT © Location: Colorado	I'm polite to help desks up to the point where they won't deviate from their script when it is obviously appropriate. I don't care if they are in Bangalore or Dallas and I don't care if their name is Sam or Sunnit. I want prompt competent assistance, adequate communication skills, and an understanding that the script doesn't cover all circumstances. If there are sparks and smoke coming from the power supply, asking me about the operating system is just going to piss me off.

11-18-2005, 10:51 AM	#25 (permalink)
flstf Easy Rider Location: Moscow on the Ohio	I have spent some time recently with Indian computer support. The language barrier is a problem but can usually be overcome with some patience and it is counter-productive to get angry if you want to solve your problem. I imagine that in time they will get better and better with our language. My biggest complaint is that with technical problems it is difficult enough to communicate with people who speak your language perfectly. The person on the helpline has to understand your problem before thay can begin to help. The little nuances of the language get lost in the translation and the language itself becomes a problem. I used to do a lot of troubleshooting of complicated computer control systems over the phone with other English speaking people and quite often it would take a while to understand what was happening on the other end. I remember one time I was working through a computer problem with a plant operator on the phone and I told him to hit F11. He told me he did but that it was still not working and he was getting frustrated. After I had him hit F11 for about the 6th time he got angry and said out loud "OK, for the 10th time here goes, F-one-one".

11-18-2005, 11:09 AM	#26 (permalink)
canuckguy I read your emails. Location: earth	I've worked tech support phone jobs before, and it was outsourced from an American company to Canada. I speak perfect English, white, no accent (except for the Canadian part eh) and I have experience both sides of this issue. First off, on the rude issue. Well I use to have people call (all calls were from the states) and if they did comment on the whole language thing, it fell into these areas. First people would say, "wow it is so nice to speak to an American”, "thank god your not indian"...etc I'd say it was a regular occurrence. Some were funny, they would ask if you were American, I would say no, and tell them I am Canadian. And they would say they weren't surprised I was not an American because I was so nice. Also some people would be upset that I was in Canada as well and not the states, taking an American’s job away, that was very rare. Now that is all usual stuff, but I also had to transfer customers directly to other tech companies for other issues. A warm transfer meaning the customer now has both me and the new tech on the same call. Some of these transfers were to India and also back to the united states. I'd say about 90% of the time if were calling India, the customer would comment about the accent and express frustrations in understanding. Most of those calls I could understand the person from India but the customer could not. I would assume that some of those times maybe it was a connection issue, but allot of it was just clear not understanding. People would get pissed off quick and I could see how it was frustrating. When I could not understand, usually I would just hang up immediately and call right back. You can sense when it was going to go nowhere. The India people though were always super nice and I felt that they were generally trying to help as best they were trained and instructed to do. We also transferred calls to centers in the united states. Now most of the employee's in my center had a negative opinion about the workers in the American call centers. No language issues of course, but allot of problems with lazy work, not willing to help…Etc. Not all the centers or agents you reached were bad, but allot (30-40% guestimate), although I don't blame the workers, very low wages and just lack of training/high turnover. In my office we were making double easily what most of they were getting. If you wanted me to do their job at that wage, well you would have got the same effort out of me too be honest. The tech job that I was doing was the upper level of support and you needed allot of experience and knowledge hence the pay. But the Americans we were transferring back to other Americans were sometimes not very happy with the effort as well. But still not even close to what levels they could reach on the India agents. Myself as a customer calling a place like your ISP or bank, I try and kill'em with kindness, and try and not to make them talk by making small talk. I just ask very short questions and try and be nice about it. I like to word my questions as if the agent and I are on one team and the company is the bad guy. If that does not get me were I need to be, then I'll wait for the call to be almost done, and then say "hey, you did a great job answering my questions, the last time I called I did not get any help, is there a supervisor I can talk to and tell them what a great job you did?" works all the time, supervisor gets on the phone, tell them what a great job the employee did "trying to help" and now get straight with the supervisor. They get paid more than that poor agent just trying to do what little they are allow to do, and tell that supervisor, exactly what you want or need done. Works like a charm most times. As well just an fyi, ANY time your calling a company and you must get transferred, ask the person you are talking with to stay on the line and conference you in until you get through. Helps allot in making sure your issue gets resolved quickly as you can multiple people on the line instead of being transferred back and forth. I'd still say that most times the american's I talked to were very nice, but it really does vary huge from state to state. People calling from the Mass. (sp?) area always seemed pissed off even if they weren't. And people from virgina were very apologetic for calling and bothering you. Generally nice people. (hope this made sense, just smoke a bit of the funny stuff, I am kid free today)

11-18-2005, 11:12 AM	#27 (permalink)
JustJess Unencapsulated Location: Kittyville	I have no problem with outsourcing - it's practical whether we like it or not. Now, just to preface... I'm the Immigration Coordinator at a hospital. I deal with a LOT of people with heavy accents, and different cultures, and a wide range of needs. I enjoy meeting these people and helping them. Now then... When I'm all upset at whatever petty ante shit I'm upset at a company for, whatever's gone wrong... getting someone who DOES NOT UNDERSTAND ME is just plain frustrating. It makes me madder. But let's be honest... there are some very frustrating people working customer service phone lines here in the States. They come across as rude, dumb, purposely hindering jerks. That's because I'm already pissed off. Still don't yell at them, tho. In the outsourcing cases... I do not shout at the person. I do not scream. I realize that it's not HIS/HER fault per se (but they shouldn't take a job that they're not qualified for, i.e. speaking English)... But I do ask to speak to someone else. Because they're just doing their job as best they can. Even if that job sucks, and the job is to be difficult. __________________ My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

11-18-2005, 01:56 PM	#28 (permalink)
AngelicVampire Insane	I don't mind who answers the phone as long as they are competent. Phoned up about our broadband connection once (did actually go through to India), the computers all worked, the network worked, the router worked all I wanted was the DNS numbers for my internet provider... the conversation took half an hour. Me: Hello ... I have recently signed up for X however have not yet recieved the modem, is it possible to get the DNS server addresses for the network (you had to specify these yourelf in the modem). X: Hello, what is the problem... repeat... interspercing computer related problems (they tried to make me unplug computers and stuff!). finally: X: Are you sure the DNS numbers are set to... Its a nightmare, if the staff knew what they were doing it would be excellent... phoned up Microsoft once, had an XXXXX error... immediately they said what it was, what was wrong and what to do... really nice situation, no is the computer on (which I had once, I was sitting reading them the error messages, had gone through the settings with them, confirmed the computer was on and the conversation went something like: "Double click X", "ok double clicked", "Does Y appear", "No". "Is your computer turned on", "Yes, how else can I double click X?", "Did you make sure the power supply was connected?"... I hung up!)

11-18-2005, 01:56 PM	#29 (permalink)
waltert Insane	not being able to understand someone is probably one of the most frustrating things ever. I get irritated with my girlfriend when i cant understand her on the phone. and i have not had very good experience with tech support (of any nationality) since i have a fair set of tech knowledge. I usually spend half an hour on hold and half an hour going through steps i've already done. many issues go "unresolved" and will usually end up with me returning the hardware or uninstalling, etc and starting all over. needless to say its not very nice to bring racism into the mix, and quite pointless...especially since the people doing it (racist remarks) are typically uneducated,unrefined, etc. Last edited by waltert; 11-18-2005 at 01:59 PM..

11-18-2005, 04:32 PM	#30 (permalink)
Astrocloud Apocalypse Nerd	As someone who has been outsourced myself AND as someone who very recently has been forced to call people that requested information: These indians who complain about rudeness to them are just taking it too hard. Americans are rude on the phone to anybody. As part of my most recent job -I reply to people requesting information and get the most dumb-ass, rude responses. "Don't hate the player hate the game" -Indeed.

11-19-2005, 02:45 PM	#31 (permalink)
Nimetic Junkie Location: Melbourne, Australia	I'm not surprised really. This was on the cards for a long time - and we had early reports of it. I have no problems with Indians. Urrr... well ok, sometimes I have moments of cultural frustration with recent migrants - but generally speaking, I'd prefer to deal with a smart Indian than a stupid person of another nationality, and vice versa. In this case we're getting people who are paid to follow a script though. I'm a little less keen on companies that outsource services - particularly those who employ cold callers to sell me stuff. (I usually hear from Indians in this situation).

11-19-2005, 06:12 PM	#32 (permalink)
jorgelito All important elusive independent swing voter... Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia	Rudeness is one thing but racism is a whole other ballgame. Still, the blame should not be in the "Indians" etc but on those who hired them (outsourced) to them. Go picket in front of Dell, not make racist attacks. It's that simple.