Baraka_Guru

Too large a proportion of the vegetables North Americans consume in their diet is made up of fried or mashed potatoes and the lettuce fixings they put on their meat sandwiches. (I wish I were joking.) You may overlook the way food is organized because it is so common. Have you noticed that most menus and cookbooks are categorized by type of meat? It might seem obvious, but many of us build our meals around the choice of whether we want beef, poultry, fish, etc. That is the focus. The problem? A vast majority of the nutrients available in food is found outside of meat. Why, then, is the North American diet built around meat? Good question. The answer to this will also provide clues as to why we eat so much junk.

Rather than dwell on the what, why, and wherefore of our obsession with meat, the best thing we can do for our health is educate ourselves on the subject of nutrition, and this is the aim of this thread. Guccilvr and I came up with this idea, as we find that time and time again, people have misconceptions of food. We feel that there are many myths perpetuated by marketing and media to the point that people have become lost on this subject. Nutrition as a subject is usually reserved for college programs for dietitians and nurses. Most public school boards only offer basic education on nutrition that rarely extends beyond looking at the food pyramid and talking about fruits and vegetables.

This is where TFP comes in. We welcome you to present your nutrition questions. If you wish, go as far as posting your typical daily food intake and activity level and ask people to evaluate it. Just keep in mind that most of us aren’t nutritionists or dieticians, so the advice we have is based on reading and experience. It’s always recommended to consult your physician in matters of health. The purpose of this thread is to get people thinking about myths and misconceptions about food, and there are many.

One example of a common misconception is the low-carb diet craze. Thanks to Dr. Atkins, there is an entire book and food industry built on the idea that drastically eliminating carbohydrates from one’s diet will essentially trick your body into burning fat as though it were melting butter. Okay, I’m probably exaggerating, but that is in essence what it’s about. I have yet to hear from a respected nutritionist or dietitian practitioner or organization that endorses such a dieting strategy. Actually, they almost invariably point out that low-carb diets are potentially dangerous and in most situations only cause the loss of water weight mostly, in addition to some fat and muscle weight. Yes, muscle too!

Another example is that calories are bad. Many think that eating as few calories as one can get away with will lead to weight-loss success. In most cases, this isn’t true. It isn’t that easy. In most situations, doing so will only lead to hunger and, ultimately, failure. What people tend to overlook in this mindset is that it isn’t about the number of calories as much as it is where those calories are coming from. Calories are not all equal. An inadequate breakfast vs. a real fruit-laden, seed-sprinkled, maple-syrup-touched bowl of steel-cut oatmeal: An inadequate breakfast will spike your insulin and cause your energy to crash later, leading to sugary/greasy food cravings and lethargy, and/or it will prevent your metabolism from gearing up early in the day, leading to problems later. The oatmeal? It will fill you up and stabilize your blood sugar, carrying you for a few hours before your next snack or meal. It’s not about number; it’s about choice, and the oatmeal is just one of many choices for starting your day off right.

These are kinds of thing we want to open for discussion. If you have a goal, your food plan should be geared toward it. There is no perfect diet, but there are sound strategies for long-term health. One thing to bear in mind is that a common thing people say when they decide to lose weight is, “I’m going on a diet because I want to lose weight.” This is fine, but from experience, you will find the people who take the approach of long-term lifestyle changes instead of task-based dieting are the ones who are most successful. The key we will always come back to is this: Balance.

So post your questions, concerns, ideas, plans, desires, needs, goals, etc., and we will do our best to teach and learn from one another. With hope, perhaps we can start building our meals on a foundation that extends beyond our choice of meat. We will dispel the irrational fears many of us have of fat and carbohydrates. We will learn how to start our days with adequate breakfasts. We will eat and be merry, not to mention healthy.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Glory's Sun

First off, excellent post!

Secondly, I absolutely hate fad diets.. and hate diet pills and supplements with just as much passion. I have this at home because while my wife is hot and not fat, she hates to workout and just wants to take a pill to lose a few pounds. This mentality has crept into every area of American life it seems. People want to eat the junk and do as little work as possible to consume the right foods as well as little work to keep their bodies in shape.

For me, the biggest myth out there is the calorie myth. Sure, if you are morbidly obese, you'll need to cut back on the bad calories. Yes..there are good calories and bad calories. If you are eating a brownie.. you're consuming bad calories. If, however, you substitute the brownie with Soy Nuts.. you are consuming good calories.

So let's break this all down a bit. Calories are calories.. right? Wrong. We've established that. So why do I always tell people to actually uptake their calorie counts.. especially when they are working out. It's simple. Your body is a sponge, it absorbs the nutrients it needs and then expels what it doesn't need. If you are consuming a ton of bad calories such as a trip to McDonalds every day and then you only eat a light breakfast before and a over portioned meal afterwards.. not only have you consumed a ton of bad calories but your blood sugar levels are all out of whack. So you work out hoping to get rid of the calories but you don't notice any significant change. Here's why. When you work out you obviously are getting rid of calories; but your body needs calories to heal itself as well. So if you up your intake to 3,000 calories a day (good calories people) and you eat at around the same time every day and include a snack in between these meals, your body is then able to take the nutrients and heal itself.

I'm in a bit of a rush so I'm going to add one more quick thing here. Portion sizes. I challenge any one who is interested to measure out everything they eat into a portion size as directed. That bag of chips you are eating..check the label.. a portion is like 10 chips. How many did you eat? 20? 30? The whole bag?? What about something basic like a bowl of cereal. Check the label. Measure out the portion that is on it, you'll find that you're probably consuming 2 or 3 portions without even realizing it. So, for people who loathe working out. Start with the portioning routine. Measure everything you eat. I don't care if it's a meal or a snack and you'll find yourself dropping a few pounds from that alone.. and cut out the sodas and caffeine. I haven't had caffeine in almost a year and I feel tons better just from that.

So my start to this whole thing is to pay attention to calories but don't get so consumed into them and believe the whole less calories = less weight. It just isn't true in most cases. Then portion, portion portion!! 3 portioned meals a day with a good healthy snack in between them. Keeps you from starving and keeps your blood sugar levels at a stable rate.

For anyone who is interested I can help with shopping lists on what to look for and Baraka can help with how these things work in your body (dude is wicked smart!). I can also help with a diet plan to use while working out. I tend to go with a diet plan that works in 3 phases along with what you are doing in the workout. First month is usually heavy on protein, the second month is balanced, and the third month is *GASP* carb heavy. The reasoning behind it is simple. The first month you are shedding fat cells and your body is trying to build lean muscle ..protein helps you create lean muscle. The second month is more stable because you've built up your lean muscle and you're now cruising in your workouts. The third month, you're feeling great and working out with huge amounts of intensity..and the way to feed this intensity is with carbs.

So here we are at the holidays.. this would be a perfect place to start your portioning routine. Instead of complaining that you ate too much, you can say you ate the right amount.

Ya know, it's funny, because for me, I've never in my life ate more than I wanted. I've never stuffed myself. I basically ate until I wasn't hungry anymore and I've never been over 200 lbs (sans the medication issue a year back). I've always snacked between meals and always been fairly active. I think we can all help each other on this vast subject.. so come on.. ask your questions or give your advice on what worked for you. Healthy can be fun

ngdawg

Well, since I seem to have been the fat catalyst....

What about someone like me who doesn't like a lot of the things that are healthy? Hate nuts(except fresh roasted peanuts or the salty dry roasted ones), hate mushrooms, hate asparagus (*shiver*). Anything with the word "vinegar" in it makes me cringe. Cheese of any kind? Bleh, except pizza.
I'll eat raw spinach, but can't stand to be near the cooked stuff.

Regarding portions on packaging, I've always felt it was unrealistic. A half gallon of ice cream is 16 servings? Try 5. And who eats 10 chips?

When I was on Weight Watchers, back in '99, we had to keep a food journal. We were given a booklet with the points value of many foods and a larger book that even included restaurants and fast food joints was available. Most veggies and fruits were either freebies in points or 1 point for many fruits. The points were based on several factors, but suffice it to say that one slice of pepperoni pizza was 15 points. On an allowance of 24 points a day, I didn't eat any pizza for 6 months.
I had cut my portions tremendously, to the point of not being able to eat a big plate of anything after just a couple weeks. But I was surprised to see what constituted a "portion"; most times I was underestimating. I lost 45 pounds back then and until last year, when I switched from a hectic retail nightmare to a desk job, was able to keep it off within 5 lbs. Add the leg injuries of the past 4 months that prevent me from doing anything (I can barely walk up or down stairs) and it's not hard to see why my seams are stressed. I used to do floor exercises every morning for 10 minutes, now I can't even get ON the floor.
I snack but I don't pig out (unless it's at Joe's Crab Shack or Carrabas )
My eating schedule is sickeningly regular: breakfast at 8, nutrigrain bar or the occasional poppyseed roll (with butter) and water at about noon, lunch at 2:30, dinner at 7. It's the hours between lunch and dinner and dinner and bed that are doing me in. As noted in my blog, I am hooked on cherry slices( jelly candies) and there's always cookies in the house. The men in my life keep buying me candy or brownies, even though I groan at them and call them saboteurs. But even then, a 6 pack of boxed brownies will last me a week.
I'm a water fiend. A bottle is always at my desk, a large metal cup at home.
I don't drink a lot of soda-maybe a small bottle of Coke a week if that-lately I've been trying to stay away from it. Tea is black only, no sugar unless someone serves me Lipton(that stuff is nasty bitter).
I'm not a salt user except french fries, which is maybe once a week. But I am a fast food buyer. Popeye's chicken, Wendy's burgers (lettuce, tomato onion only, though, never cheese, never a double) are a staple in this house, as is Chinese food.

I believe in the old adage, You are what you eat. I was put on a diabetic diet for recurring infections; I've been on a fat free diet to combat gall bladder disease. But habits die hard and even though I know that what I'm doing has a direct affect on how I've been feeling, having this crap around the house to appeal to the other three living here is like lighting up a joint in front of a recovering toker.

Sigh...

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

Baraka_Guru

It's late and I'm about to head to bed, so I'll make this brief to start:

1. Don't worry about being a "picky eater" when it comes to healthy food. There is a world of food out there you might not have discovered yet. We will get into this later.
2. It's good that you have past experience with portioning. That's one advantage.
3. It can actually be a good thing to have a "sickeningly" regular eating schedule.
4. The biggest problem I see in your meal/snack timing is between 2:30 (lunch) and 7:00 (dinner). This is 4.5 hours between eating. I have a general rule: If it's been more than four hours since eating something, it's been too long. This rule should be in effect until dinner. You might want to add a small snack somewhere in there, possibly at around 4:00 or 4:30.
5. Besides point #3, you have a good timing basis for your eating habits. Build on this and you will see the problems between lunch and dinner, and dinner and bed, disappear, especially once you figure out your optimal food choices.
6. Water is good, but it's possible to drink too much. How much are you drinking each day?
7. Don't feel bad about a small bottle of Coke and some fries once a week. Another misconception about good nutrition habits is that one needs to be a saint for it to work. Even the best of us "cheats" now and again. The key is what's typical on a daily basis. Learn how to savour such treats. Using them as rewards is a good strategy.
8. Black tea with no sweetener is a healthy drink, but try to cut off your consumption of caffeinated beverages after 4:00pm. Caffeine can interfere with your sleep which can affect your body's fat management. Despite what you might read, tea is not a strike against hydration. It's mostly water, so a cup of tea counts as a cup of water, for the most part.
9. How often do you eat fast food? This could be a big factor, especially if it's a lot of fried chicken.
10. As far as exercise is concerned, how is your walking on flat surfaces? What about riding a bike or swimming?

Feel free to ask for clarification on any of this, and the more information you can offer, the better. We have a lot of work ahead of us, but I know you can do it.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

ngdawg

Unless the bike has a motor, I can't ride due to the knees. I can walk on flat surfaces-if I know I'll be walking for a while, I bring a cane or use my monopod. The damage to my knee and ankle will probably be either with me a few more months or forever. That possibility is another reason I really need to get out of this fat rut. Extra weight aggravates the joints, which are already damaged.
I guess I'm lucky in that, being tall, saying I'm overweight gets balked at-I don't look like a butterball, I'm just weighty.

The 4.5 hours between meals is where the junk food comes in. I sit at the computer at work and pick at the cherry slices right after lunch til quitting time; when I get home about 6, I'm starving and have to start dinner, so I grab a cookie. It's not that I eat a lot, I eat wrong. Then I don't burn it off.

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

Glory's Sun

Have you tried something like water aerobics? Alot of people with knee problems and such enjoy the pool exercises because they get a workout and it doesn't seem to jar their joints as much.

Ok so you've identified the fact that you eat junk in between meals. You love fruit right? Skip the cookies or cherry slices and eat a cup of berries. If you put the temptation out of your sight, it will be a lot easier to not eat them. In other words, quit taking the slices to work.. then tell the men to quit buying them

I think if you can learn to eat some healthier foods (look I hate asparagus and mushrooms but have learned to like them) you'll find that you aren't starving in between meals as much.

You're habits aren't that bad.. considering some other's I've seen. You really just need some tweaking and healthier choices. I'm working on a grocery list on good foods/bad foods nutrition value etc.. so this may help you discover foods that you will like and help you on your way

Martian

This is a half-truth. There are about 8 billion different brews of tea out there and the effect one particular type may or may not have depends heavily on what's in it. Caffeine is a diuretic, so heavily caffeinated blends can have an adverse effect on hydration by causing one to expel more water than one takes in.

Hasn't been asked yet: ngdawg, what are your staple meals? When you cook dinner, what do you cook? Steak? Pork? Chicken? Veggies?

I love asparagus, spinach, brussels sprouts, mushrooms and all manner of other veggies. Salads are my favourite type of side (although unlike Baraka_Guru I tend to include a lean meat in dinner every night; might have something to do with me not being an herbivore). I blame my mother for all of this; she instilled healthy eating habits in my sister and I beginning at a young age, and we've all carried that through to adulthood. So, um, yeah. That might be something to consider, ng. By making the sacrifice now, you can teach your kids to cook right and eat right, and pass a better lifestyle on to them.

Magpie and I constantly bemoan the fact that portions in restaurants are far too big. It seems to be my experience that the typical restaurant serves nearly double what I would consider to be a good portion. I think that ties into the whole discussion here about average portions being far bigger than they should be.

EDIT - In regards to the fast food, reducing consumption of that will not only improve your diet, but also your wallet. Having someone else make dinner for you comes at a premium. If you don't have the energy to cook every night, perhaps getting some of your family members to share the load would help; after all, they eat it too.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

Baraka_Guru

Actually, this is now considered a myth, as it has been proven false. Drinking tea--even caffeinated black tea--does not dehydrate you (assuming you have no personal adverse effects to tea otherwise). It is a diuretic, but the effect is minimal. If you drink a cup of black tea, it will not force you to lose a cup or more of fluid. It actually hydrates you much like water does, except it has antioxidants as well.

[Edit: Even a cup of really strong coffee will give you a minimal net hydration benefit.]

In a typical day, I drink a cup of coffee in the morning and about four cups of tea (both black and green) before the end of my work day. I'm far from dehydrated despite the fact that I haven't had a single glass of water during that time otherwise. I do, however, drink water in the morning upon waking and some in the evening as well.

[Edit: I should mention as well that one's tolerance for caffeine is developed with regular intake. If you aren't used to caffeine (or have a caffeine sensitivity) and suddenly start to drink a lot of it, you may have more difficulty rehydrating.]

Edit:
Also, preparing and cleaning up after dinner is a form of light exercise that helps burn calories--much like other housework!

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

ngdawg

We eat generally pork or chicken. Can't afford steak-any beef here is usually in the form of a meatloaf or meatballs and spaghetti.

Fast food sometimes is cheaper than cooking at home. I can feed the four of us from Wendy's for under $17, for instance.
Everyone here can cook to a degree, so if I'm running late, it's just a matter of a phone call.
My kids are almost 17 and unfortunately have acquired my eating habits. But being teenagers, they aren't seeing the effects (son is 6'1" and 135 lbs!). I have to hide the sweets or they're gone in a day. Even buying things like bananas or grapes, I know they'll be gobbled up in short order.

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

Tully Mars

Where do you grocery shop?

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I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo

Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

cadre

Reading through your post makes me want to point out that you're probably eating foods that could be healthy but aren't prepared in a healthy way. Chicken can be healthy but it won't be if it's soaked in grease. Instead of trying to force yourself to eat foods you hate, find healthier ways to cook the foods that you do like.

Little things like substituting olive oil for butter are also going to be helpful. I find the most effective lifestyle changes are the small ones.

It sounds like it might be worth it to sit down and discuss your and your family's needs with a professional nutritionist but if you won't listen to one then don't bother.

The way I overhauled my diet and later that of anyone who lives with me is I simply stopped buying unhealthy foods. I don't buy cookies or candy. Instead I buy lots of fruit and vegetables as well as other healthier snacks which I still find tasty. Also, if you want something like ice cream, try sorbet with reduced or no sugar. If your kids want cookies they can go get a couple at a time, but usually it won't be worth the trouble for them and the same will probably go for you.

As far as exercise goes, I have knee problems as well so I can relate to your dilemma. It's been about three or four years since I've been able to run but now I run a couple miles every day (granted, I still get sore). It takes time, but your body does have the potential to rebound. If you don't exercise though, nothing will change. Start with things like swimming and maybe a stationary bike so that your weight is not on your knees.

I hope this helps you ng, and anyone else out there trying to be healthier. If you have any questions I'm sure myself or one of our other fine members can give you an answer but of course, a professional is always the best.

Edit: I just reread your post and realized I had missed something. You mention that the men in your life insist on buying you candy and other sweets and that can be a big problem. You have to be serious with them though and explain yourself so that they can understand what trouble they're causing. They don't have to stop buying stuff all together, but buying less at a time and less often will make a big difference.

__________________
My life is one of those 'you had to be there' jokes.

ngdawg

At the local supermarkets, although I have been buying some things like frozen chicken breasts, at Walmart. It's pretty expensive around here to buy anything at supermarkets. Four porkchops will run $10 unless they're on sale; a box of frozen veggies runs over $4 for name brands, $2-3 for no-names. I can get a 5lb bag of potatoes for about $4 there or $2 at the vegetable market. I figure anytime I can get enough meat for one meal for around $8, I'm ahead of the game. That usually means ground beef.

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

Glory's Sun

Do you have any farmers markets or something similar? I found that going to a market like that lets you not only buy fresh produce, but it's cheaper. There's no profit for the supermarket and you're only dealing with the person who actually grew the stuff.

Check out a butcher shop. Sometimes you can find killer deals on meat from a butcher shop.

ngdawg

Only during the summer; otherwise, we do have a vegetable/fruit store nearby.
On Christmas Eve, my best friend dropped off a huge Edible Arrangement. Don't know if they're available elsewhere, but what those are are fresh fruits designed into a bouquet-strawberries, cantelope, honeydew, pineapple and grapes. They make pigging out on fruit a trip to heaven.

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

thingstodo

We hardly eat meat any more which has ended up saving us a lot of cash. My wife doesn't at all and I do rarely. We do manage to get plenty of protein. She uses goat dairy and I goat and cow, plus we eat eggs. We do spend money on good fish at whole foods but still save a great deal by not planning meals around meat. And I feel better for it. I can now tell when I have eaten meat later - it's kind of like a hangover, sorta'.

__________________
If you're wringing your hands you can't roll up your shirt sleeves.

Stangers have the best candy.

ngdawg

I think I have developed a "sensitivity" to bread. Not full-blown Celiac's but I appear to have a threshold that, when it gets passed, I get "sick". This was verified on the 30th when the bosses took us out to dinner.
I thought we were having a luncheon, so I hadn't brought any lunch to work.
Instead, I went to the local diner and picked up a plain pork roll on a hard roll. Later, dinner was at a popular deli/restaurant that serves these "triple deckers" that serve 5 people. I took two pieces of rye bread, made a half sandwich of turkey breast with bacon, then made a half sandwich of corned beef. I also had 8 french fries and dipped those in gravy each bite.
Within an hour, I was rushing to the ladies' room, feeling miserable, like I'd eaten a whole turkey dinner. I excused myself and went home. I'm pretty sure that, had I not had that roll at lunch, I may have been fine. What amounted to one whole sandwich, along with the fries and a small pickle, should not have had that effect. The only thing I put on the sandwich was a smear of mustard.

I had severely cut my bread intake on this suspicion; didn't do a damned thing for my weight and, in fact, I put on 5 more pounds in the last week or so.
Yesterday I had my usual mini-bagel for breakfast, lunch was a tunafish sandwich in which I cut the slices of bread in half lengthwise; dinner was at TGIF's, so that probably more than made up for any efforts made previously.
There are no cookies in the house at all, but my nighttime snack was ice cream. /slaps self. That was the last of the container, tho.

I have trouble walking due to the knees and the ankle, so I've started doing exercises I'd been doing before the dual falls. These should build and/or strengthen the lost muscle.

Today I am 3 lbs heavier than I was 2 days ago.

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

Glory's Sun

One thing that I tell people is that pounds aren't necessarily the evil. It just depends on what the pounds are from. If it's muscle, then it's good, if it's fat.. then not so good.

ngdawg

It's fat I assume since I'm not really going great guns with any workout.
I am now 8 lbs heavier than I was at Christmas....and I apparently am 18 again, for reasons I won't go into.
Time for a Dr. appointment and a thyroid check.

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

Leto

This is great Baraka...

Can I play out a couple of breakfast scenarios for you to comment on? For some reason, I have not been hungry for breakfast lately. I think this may be the result of a shifted diurnal schedule brought on by the Christmas holidays and taking 2 weeks off of work, staying up late, getting up late. But now, when I get up at 6 am, I have a cup of coffee, but feel no hunger until around 9 am, and therefore no desire to prepare or eat breakfast until then.

So on Monday I had my 6:30 am coffee at home, then left for work at 8 AM. Once at work, I went across to Tim Horton's and bought a medium with cream and a bacon breakfast sandwich (approx 9:15).

I was not hungry for lunch at noon, but had a chicken shawarma nonetheless, followed up by a Starbucks coffee.

For dinner (6 PM) My wife created one of her signature home - cooked chinese dishes: beef sliced thin, stirfried with garlic, ginger and sliced tomatoes, served over basmati rice (white & brown mixed) and steamed broccoli & carrots on the side.

Snacked on left over christmas baking later on (around 10 pm) and a piece of dark chocolate toblerone)

That was scenario 1.

Recognizing that I should force myself to eat breakfast before Tim Horton's beckons, on tuesday, scenario two played out: I had a coffee at approx 6:30 AM (while watching city TY) and then had a bowl of Life cereal, with Kashi and bran buds, 2 percent milk, not Homo - but I do use half and half cream in my coffee). Lunch: left over PB&J sandwhich from Monday (I had the shawarma instead that day) with two small yoghurts and a mandarin orange. Dinner at 6:30: Whole wheat penne & rotini with italian sausage tomato sauce on top. TV snack at around 10 PM: pate, Hickory Farms smokey cheddar cheese, triskets and grapes, followed by another piece of toblerone.


So, nutritionally, am I screwed up? I do excercise regularly - Half hour of weights at lunch on Monday, Half hour of running (outside - 5 km) on Tuesday, Half hour of weights again today. running again tomorrow, and hockey tomorrow night. I weigh 180lbs.

__________________
You said you didn't give a fuck about hockey
And I never saw someone say that before
You held my hand and we walked home the long way
You were loosening my grip on Bobby Orr

http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Leto_Atreides_I

Baraka_Guru

Leto, thanks for taking the time to lay this out.

You aren't very hungry during the first half of your day. This is (typically) when you should be most hungry. Can I ask how hungry you typically feel around suppertime and before bed? In both scenarios, you have late snacks. While there is nothing wrong with having a small snack before bed (the right kind can help you sleep), eating too much this late in the day can do two things: 1) cause you to gain weight due to consuming too many calories when your metabolism and caloric expenditure will be at its lowest (during sleep), 2) lead you to be not hungry enough upon waking to have a proper breakfast. What this means is that you might have yourself on a vicious cycle of poor meal timing. Stress might play an issue as well. Things like poor sleep habits and work-related issues (plus holiday stress perhaps?) can cause stress, and stress can suppress hunger at a good time to be hungry, leading you to be more hungry at inopportune times later on.

Food choices aside at the moment, here is what I recommend: limit or eliminate your late-night snack. If you must eat something at this time, try to have some light carbs with little or no protein or fat. Try a small bowl of cereal, a piece of toast, or some fruit or something (like a banana). This should stave off hunger while you try to sleep and will even help you sleep, as carbs at this time of day can set off the right chemicals for sleeping.

If you are eating anywhere near 300 - 500 calories (or more) at night usually, it could be throwing off your hunger in the morning. (And too much protein can interfere with your sleep.) Try also to go to bed at a reasonable time if you aren't already (and if you can). Being sleep deprived or not getting a good night's sleep even once can lead your appetite to be suppressed in the morning. The two combined is even worse.

One other issue is that delaying your coffee until later in the morning might help too. An early-morning coffee can suppress hunger, plus it can interfere with your body's "waking up" chemical process. Ideally, wait until 9 or 10am (if you can!!! )

Let's start there and see if we need to get into more detail. Let me know what you think. When I get home tonight, I'll spend more time thinking about this.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

cadre

+1

Just one thing to add, your body is very adaptive and it sounds like your two weeks of sleeping in and eating later has changed your eating habits. This is not uncommon, I've gone through the same thing. I usually find that putting off the coffee will make a big difference. Try to keep your meals to your regular times as much as possible but of course don't eat if you're not hungry. It'll probably take a couple weeks to change, not a couple days.

__________________
My life is one of those 'you had to be there' jokes.

Leto

I am usually quite hungry by dinner time. I am leaving now to get home to eat and am tempted to buy a coffee crisp on the way to the car. But eating one of those Listerine breath strips has helped to resolve that. Dinner will be chicken pot pie (home made), but I have to say that I like my late night snacks. This is a time that my wife and I are winding down, and watching something lame on tv (usually CSI or Law & Order) and can enjoy something to eat. I have gone the cereal & yoghurt route before, and can do so again. But I think tonight we need to finish off some guacamole that she made earlier in the week, or else it will go bad.

Delaying my coffee until later sounds hard to do. But not impossible. I'll try that tomorrow. My bed time is typically 11:30 to midnight. I usually fall asleep while my wife is watching the CTV news or surfing the web on her laptop. So I get about 6 to 6.5 hours each night. I have tried to sleep longer, but that's rare.

Thanks for your interest!

__________________
You said you didn't give a fuck about hockey
And I never saw someone say that before
You held my hand and we walked home the long way
You were loosening my grip on Bobby Orr

http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Leto_Atreides_I

cadre

I would recommend that instead of checking your weight every day or every couple days, check it at the same time every week. Your weight will bounce around a bit, focusing on it every day will just make you feel worse and at the same time it won't really tell you anything. Also, don't focus on just your weight, make sure you're checking your body fat % as well.

__________________
My life is one of those 'you had to be there' jokes.

Baraka_Guru

This is a sign that you haven't been eating enough before dinner time. Change your habits and you will see this problem lessen if not disappear completely. I'm seldom hungry on my way home from work. I only get hungry closer to dinner time.

The cereal and yogurt is a good one. Just keep the portion reasonable, and try to use wholesome cereals as opposed to the sugary kind. Think granola, and try to find a cereal without too much sugar. Also remember that fruit-flavoured/bottom yogurts usually have a lot of added sugar. If you find a cereal with dried fruit in it (or if you add your own), try using plain yogurt if you don't already. If you're used to all that sugar, it might be an acquired taste, but it's worth it. Try adding some seeds and/or nuts for extra flavour. Removing the sugar calories and replacing them with fruit/nut/seed calories is a good strategy, generally. A little goes a long way with those ingredients.

That's the spirit! It might take a while, but you can easily shift your coffee habits over time. If your intake is 2 cups per day, you don't need to cut back, just start later. Start at around 9 or 10am, and stop before 4pm. Try not to drink much more than 2 cup per day overall. Less is usually better when it comes to caffeine.

I've struggled with my own sleep habits lately. While there are some people who get by just fine on 6 to 6.5 hours a night, most people can't, which explains why sleep deprivation is such a growing problem. The average optimal sleep is around 7 to 7.5 per night. It's sometimes as high as 8 for some people, but recent studies have shown that the "8 for health" rule isn't quite accurate. It's more like 7.5. Some people need as much as 10, but that's rare.

You can find out your optimal sleep time with some experimentation. One way is to pick a time (say, 7 hours) and go to bed at the same time each night where you'll get just that. Then on Sat. (or when you aren't working one day), see how long you sleep without an alarm, but don't try to sleep in. Make some notes. Try it again for another week: 7 hours Mon-Fri, then see what happens Sat. If you find you are sleeping in a lot and comfortably so, you might need more than 7 hours per night. Try bumping it up to 7.5. On the other hand, if you are reasonably refreshed after about 7 or 8 hours on Sat. morning, you might be fine with 7. The key is to keep the same bedtime each night, even on weekends, and to wake up at the same time as well. Our bodies are fairly strict cyclical machines, which is why we feel sapped when we're off-kilter.

You can use weekends to "catch up" if you think you're rather sleep deprived, but it's not a good idea to play catch-up/fall-behind week after week. (I'm guilty of this too; most of us are.) This experiment might not work at first if you are currently deeply entrenched in sleep deprivation (which might be more likely than you think). Our bodies recover from sleep deprivation rather efficiently, but it might take some time. The second or third week of this experiment might be more fruitful in this case.

No problem! And good luck!

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

ngdawg

Recent articles floating about are saying that sleep has a direct effect on weight. They allude to the sleep deprivation most of us now face as being part of why we as a whole are getting fatter.
Source, full article

I know that I am sleep deprived; I am one of those that needs 8 hours, but during the week, usually get 6.5-7. On weekends, I sleep 8-9.
I don't believe this is across the board, that there are exceptions-most notably my son, who sleeps maybe 6 hours a night during the week and is under 50% for his height. He doesn't generally sleep in on weekends, but will sometimes fall asleep around dinner time. He has always been this way, even as an infant, so it may be a matter of those that are truly deprived of their required sleep are the ones that have the weight problems, while those who just don't need it fare well.

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

Baraka_Guru

Yes, this is an important link. The function is partly related to the stress hormone cortisol. If we don't handle cortisol adequately, it can lead to weight gain.

Sleep deprivation and stress are connected this way. If you get adequate sleep and manage your stress through relaxation, exercise, and other mental activities, you will avoid cortisol-related weight gain.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Glory's Sun

well sleep depro isn't affecting me.. I'm 170, 6'1 and 29. On a good night I get 4 hours of sleep.

I think the major link between sleep depro is the fact that people overload and sugary snacks and sodas before bed. I know someone who has a cup of coffee to get ready for bed.. then complains that she doesn't feel rested.. well DUH.. wonder why.

Baraka_Guru

You're one of the lucky ones. If I get less than 6 per night, not only will I be sleep deprived, but I'm guaranteed to get sick. This is why it's important to find out your own sleep time. There are ways to find out if you're sleep deprived. My favourte way is admitting when I've had a few too many microsleeps.

Many Buddhist monks sleep only a few hours per night due to the reduced requirement from all the meditation they do. Those delta-waves are quite something.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Glory's Sun

well I'm not the happiest person in the world..and this is part of it. I want more sleep and need more..but chronic insomnia is a bitch..

oh well.. that's why there's ambien

anyway, back to nutrition

Baraka_Guru

Oh, crap, sorry. I thought you only needed 4 hours. Didn't realize you had insomnia. (Did I know that already? ) I have chronic short-term memory. I'll try to remember that.

My mother has intense chronic pain, so I've seen the effects of not getting a proper night's sleep--ever. It isn't pretty.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Baraka_Guru

gucci, what's your recommendation for protein intake for resistance training for building muscle? I'm around 175 lbs., but should be closer to 165 once I shed most of the extra fat I've gained in the past year.

I'm looking at three one-hour sessions per week.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Glory's Sun

Well it really depends on what type of workouts you're going to be doing. If you're mixing your resistance training with cardio and yoga style excercises I would actually downsize the raw protein and go a little heavier on the carbs, but keep a good portion of lean protein in your diet.. especially after workout. Try going with breakfast that is carb friendly with some protein materials built in, and a dinner that is more protein friendly as this will (I'm assuming) be after your workout and will help your muscles rest and repair. While fat shredding diets are usually protein heavy, that is reserved for losing more than ten pounds the first month or so, after that, you want to go to a more (good) carb diet with good proteins mixed in, because you are using more calories because your workouts have intensified.

I'll try and be a little more specific later.. I had a bit too much of the liquid pleasure last night.. so.. yeah.. give me a few hours to recover

Baraka_Guru

I was doing a basic/beginner weightlifting routine. That was just to get my muscles back to work after being away from it for several months. I'm now changing my routine to a similar mode to how I built my physique previously--namely, using high-intensity training (HIT).

This is how it breaks down each week:

Day 1 (chest/shoulders):
Dumbbell bench press 2 sets X 6-10 reps
Dumbbell lateral raise 2 X 6-10
Dumbbell shrug 2 X 6-10

Day 2 (legs/biceps):
Dumbbell squats 2 X 12-20
Dumbbell Romanian deadlifts 2 X 12-20
Dumbbell bicep curls 2 X 6-10
Barbell deadlift 2 X 5-8

Day 3 (back/triceps):
Single-arm bent-over row 2 X 6-10
Dumbbell pullovers 2 X 6-10
Single-arm overhead tricep extensions 2 X 6-10

If you aren't that familiar with HIT, this means I'll generally be lifting like so: 3 seconds positive, 1 second pause, 4 seconds negative, 1 second pause, repeat. And each weight setting will ensure temporary failure by the end of the set.

I originally did something like this as a fully-body workout once or twice a week, but I'm trying it split this time, as I want to save time and keep motivated. I was impressed with the results originally (it allowed me to "discover" my triceps and deltoids), though I haven't done this kind of training since. That was about five years ago. Since then I've tried various "conventional" means of weightlifting, but the results weren't as promising and it seemed like more work than it was worth. I'm a fan of efficient, intense workouts. I hate the idea of spending too much time in the gym doing four (or more) exercises for a body part when I know one will do if done in a certain way.

The big change for me was losing gym privileges and going with a free-weight setup at home.

As for diet, I normally go carb-heavy, though I do eat a fair amount of fat and protein. I typically aim for 120g or protein per day as a target, and this usually means I get 60 to 80g of fat, and the rest is carbs. (I'm ballparking it, but it should be a good picture.) I typically don't carry a lot of body fat, and I'm expecting to burn off this 5 or 10 lbs. in a month or two with this level of weightlifting, as that's what's typical for me. I have a high metabolism.

The only cardio I do is walk a few miles each day to and from work. I'm a fast walker though.

My goal is to build muscle mass. The fat loss is secondary, and will likely happen automatically.

I more or less would like your feedback on protein (and other things, I suppose). Specifics would be nice....but do indeed get a full recovery from last night.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

ring

I have been a smoker for many years and noticed that during the times
I had quit smoking, I was surprised to wake up in the mornings, Hungry.
Smoking is big appetite suppresant, and it sets me up for trouble,
by waiting too long to eat that first meal of the day.

I know it would be best if I quit smoking, but I do take a lot of extra C and
Calcium to help offset how smoking robs the body of these two especially.

I force myself to drink a glass of skim or 1% organic milk, first thing in the morning.
I prefer goats milk, it's easily digested and I like the flavor.
I then empty a packet of EmergenC into a cup of water and drink that also.

That cortisol dump from stress has been a huge factor for me.
I am dealing with insomnia that began when I hit menopause.

All my life I actually had trouble keeping up a healthy weight.
I am 5'7' and I would struggle to stay above 110 to 115 pounds.

As soon as menopause hit I gained 80 pounds in 9 months,
without changing my eating habits.
That put a lot of stress on my joints, and my self-esteem also.
A lot of people can be very cruel towards the over weight.

I use meat as a condiment, I prefer lamb, it too is easily digested.
I avoid all trans fats when possible, and when I can afford it
I buy organic veggies.

I am borderline celiac, and have IBS and GERD as well.
These long frigid winters make it more difficult to exercise.
I cannot afford a gym. I do have some handweights at home,
and if I can motivate, I walk the long hallways in our Apt. building.

I know that it is a combination of laziness, depression, and not feeling all that well
some days that keeps me from exercising, but I know that is what
is going to make all the difference....I just need to get up and do it.

Glory's Sun

Baraka: give me a day or so and let me see if I can get you a meal plan (1 day) that describes how I would go about it.

What worked(/s) for me however, may not work for you.

Baraka_Guru

Gucci, thanks.

@ ring:

Quitting smoking is a tough thing to do (from what I hear), so it is commendable to make the effort. The quitting/eating connection is well known, but I know people who have overcome that.

You are right that it's important to eat in the morning rather than wait, but smoking might be throwing that off for you. Quitting would be best, but there are other things you can do.

If you can exercise first thing in the morning, this might build hunger, and rightly so. Even if it's the walking you mentioned, you should be doing something. Walking is actually very good exercise and can be done by most people rather safely, even if they have a number of conditions that might prevent them from doing other forms of exercise.

As far as diet is concerned, the conditions you mentioned are challenges for you, I'm sure. If you've had a lot of experience with them and/or have had doctor(s)' recommendations for dietary choices, review them again if you haven't lately. Bad habits creep into our daily routines rather easily, and so taking a moment to look over something you already know subconsciously can be enlightening. Be sure to eat a healthful and varied diet within what might be restricted to you. It might be difficult to avoid falling into the pattern of eating lots of one or two things you know you can eat, and having it crowd out other things that might be greatly beneficial to you.

With regard to depression, motivation, stress, etc., diet and exercise can be such huge factors, that it would be worth your while to perhaps take the time to review all your options. Go to the library and finds books that focus exclusively on diets for GERDs, celiac, and IBS (rather than books that focus on these cases comprehensively) and review them. Get ideas for food that you may not have had in the past. I reviewed my own diet recently, and it was only then had I realized how bad it had become.

Also try getting books on walking as exercise, tai chi, and other low-stress, low-impact (and, frankly, "easy" i.e. natural) forms of exercise that you can do right in your apartment. Daily exercise of 30 minutes is generally recommended. Walking seems easy, but there are many considerations people overlook when looking at it as a form of exercise.

Do you have a routine for your hand weights?

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

ring

Thank you Baraka, for all your input.

The hand weight routine is one I have been using for years,
from an old Jane Fonda workout video.
Some of them are done standing, and others from a sturdy upright chair.
I store them next to the recliner- a pair of five and eight pounders.
Keeping them visible reminds me to use them.

tai chi is an excellent idea. I will find some videos for that at the library.
I played around with bio-feed back a few years ago.
that was very interesting to see the immediate results of
breath control and getting your mind to that restful place.

I used to swim a lot. It was the best for low impact, cardio, stretching etc,
but I can no longer tolerate the chlorine and other chemicals they use in pools.
That's a bummer. When the lakes around here warm up enough to swim,I will be there!
I love swimming.

Both my mother and I started a food diary recently,
writing down everything we eat, the amounts, and the time. (no cheating.)
It helps us to quickly see
how those calories can sneak up on ya fast, especially for my mom, she really
uses food for comfort.

You are so right when it comes to eating a variety of foods.
I still make a large pot of rice and a pot of beans, and then have fun spicing them
in different ways.
Poverty does not mean I have to eat crappy food.

Baraka_Guru

You're welcome, ring.

You might also want to try to see if you can find another hand-weight video like the Jane Fonda one. Doing the same workout indefinitely isn't as effective as changing it up every so often to challenge those muscles. Muscles respond more to change it isn't used to. Especially if you've done the Jane Fonda video 1,000 times, it might be time to move on to something new. You might be surprised at the sort of things you can do with hand weights at home. Let me know if you have trouble finding something, and I'll see what I can dig up. Is your library good for selection and getting new things in for users?

Food diaries are very useful. Be sure to also write down your moods; reviewing that might surprise you.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

snowy

The food diary will also help you see which foods exacerbate your preexisting conditions. With GERD and IBS, everyone has different trigger foods, and so what might be okay for me to eat would not be okay for you to eat, and vice-versa. There are various resources online with lists of possible trigger foods for both conditions. I found the following website to have lots of helpful lists: Acid Reflux Diet - Safe Foods for Heartburn Sufferers - Safe Foods for the Acid Reflux Diet I printed them off and kept them around for a long time until I figured out what caused me personally to react and what didn't.

GERD and IBS were actually two of the big problems that motivated me to change my lifestyle. Good luck, ring. It's one of the hardest yet most rewarding things I've ever done.

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Glory's Sun

Baraka: try this on.. note this is only one days worth of food and I had to repeat a food group because of the meat issue..

this is quick and off the cuff so we may have to make some ammends..

Breakfast:
1 Cup Oatmeal
8oz Skim Milk
1tbsp Protein Powder
1/2 oz Raisins

Snack:
Protein bar of your choosing
Vitamin mix or drink

Lunch:
White Bean and Tuna Salad

Snack:
8oz Cottage Cheese 1%

Dinner:
6oz Salmon
2tsp Green Apple Salsa
1cup Asparagus
2cups Salad greens
2tsp Dressing (your choice)==prefer making your own vinagarette.