Borla

Mmkay.......I'm a simple beast. Really, I am. I am one of those people who just tells it like I see it, and moves on. If I want something, I speak up. If I prefer something a certain way, I say so. If I don't like something, I try to suggest the way I like it. Simple enough, right?

Why in teh bloody 'ell does my wife ALWAYS try to change/tweak/improve whatever it is in the world that I say I want, prefer, or like?

I mean, let's say she asks me if I'd like something to drink. I say "yes, a Pepsi please". What do you think I'd want? Seems simple, a Pepsi, right?


WRONG!!!! I'd want a CHERRY Pepsi.



How do I know this? Cause every time my wife asks me if I want something, and I tell her, she changes it to what she THINKS I'd want, then gives it to me.



It's freakin frustrating. I honestly appreciate the effort, but PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, WHEN I WANT SOMETHING SIMPLE, JUST GIVE ME SOMETHING SIMPLE!!!!!




Why do you women always try to improve on simple requests, even when the simple request is the actual core desire?
/rant



(No, this isn't over what kind of Pepsi I drank tonight, just an example for illustrative purposes, lol.)

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Gilda

Sweetie, you only think you know what you want. Trust us, we know what's best for you .

Seriously, though?

It's because women are often taught not to be assertive about what we want, to drop hints and make suggestions and be flexible and ready to adapt to what our partner wants. We're taught not to ask for what we want, so we frequently ask for something a little bit less, or offer a suggestion of what we think our partner might actually want us to say instead of what we actually want.

Yes, it's bullshit, and we don't all do it, but it is part of the training a great many of us get in how to be a girl in this society.

So what does that mean to your situation? It's generalizing from one to all, a way of thinking a great many people engage in--the way I think is how everyone must think. If I don't really mean what I say the first time, then you must not mean what you say the first time. A conversation becomes a negotiation to arrive at the truth, not a simle exchange of information.

As you get to know each other it'll either get better, or you'll learn to live with it.

Gilda

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Borla

I've known her for about 20 years, and we've been married for almost 8.



You make sense...........though I constantly remind her that I say what I mean and mean what I say.

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Ustwo

Just tell her, women are quite trainable, and I wouldn't read to much into it beyond that.

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Ustwo

Then say 'mmmm cherry pepsi, to bad I didn't want it honey, mind if I get a regular one?'

Its all part of the training.

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

snowy

Women are not pets.

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alpha phi

Gilda speaks the truth
After all, if it wasn't for women adding their "improvements"
we men would still be living in caves.
we are simple creatures...
food....drink....sex.....sleep
and whatever it takes to get the above.
she is just trying to please you,
by going the extra mile.
Let her know when the simple things are important
The rest of the time enjoy the extra attention.

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Toaster126

Women, like men, are very trainable.

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"The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand)
"The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

Ustwo

I agree, its almost impossible to train a cat beyond a litterbox and don't get me started on fish and reptiles.

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Impetuous1

Wow, women=beasts. Great. Thanks for the input.

Anyway, like alpha phi said, she's trying to go the extra mile. End your request with, "I would really love that" Hopefully she'll take the hint.

Carno

Don't try to understand women. It will make your brain pop.

Just drink lots of beer.

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rat

clarify by use of elaboration. say "babe, i want a regular pepsi, no glass." trust me on this, life is in the details, and how said details are presented...one thing I learned growing up from watching my older sister, that I've applied to each and every woman I have any sort of relationship with (acquaintance, girlfriend, (ex-)fiance) is that they appreciate detail...it's not required, but it makes everyone's life easier.

And don't get me wrong, normally if someone in my family is cooking/shopping/ordering a drink for me/whatever, I tend to leave it up to them. But there are times where less is not more, and one of those times is when you're expressing your tastes... So it tends to drive those around you nuts when you don't clarify...

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maleficent

1. Women don't really listen, they just like to bitch about how men don't listen.
2. Women will do exactly what they want to do and it's the man's fault because he doesn't appreciate all they she does for him.
3. Your biggest mistake here is thinking you can actually understand the female brain -- were that to happen -- good lord... tears would become very ineffective

Next time, thank your lovely wife for fetching you a Pepsi... and like my momma used to say, if you don't like what you've been given... get up and get it your danged self.. Personally I think it's a ploy on her part to stop fetching for you... if she does it wrong often enough, you'll eventually start doing it yourself...

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flstf

Just remind her where the phrase "rule of thumb" comes from.
Just kidding, no flames please.

Borla

I think the first part of your post was dead on!!




Here is an actual example. Though minor, it's the most recent one that comes to mind. Not a big deal, but it's something that also happens on a bigger scale..................she asks me if I want a snack. I say sure, and ask if there is any leftover taco meat from the night before. She says there is. I say that some of that with shredded chihuaha (sp?) cheese over it sounds really good with some tortilla chips. Ten minutes later she brings me a bowl........it's basically a bowl of melted cheese with peppers and onions and corn and a tiny bit of ground beef in it. I'm like "umm, what happened to the taco meat with cheese?" She says "Oh, I thought I'd just add a ton more cheese and some veggies and salsa in it and give it to you like that".

Except the huge amount of cheese made it all greasy, and I didn't want peppers and onions and corn in it.


Stupid, I know, but it's like she went to MORE work to give me something I didn't want then what it would've taken to give me what I wanted. And it's not like I demanded she go get me a snack or anything, cause if I'd known it was going to be something different I would've just gotten it myself, she offered. I thought I was specific in what I wanted once the offer was made? For the record, we've had the conversation eleventy billion times that I will always ask for exactly what I want, and will assume that she is doing the same.

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ratbastid

First, I want to address Usto's comment about women's trainability and the grumpiness it incurred on the part of some others.

Women ARE trainable. So are men. Being trainable doesn't equate you with a pet or a beast. You've been in training since the moment you had consciousness, and you'll be in training until the moment you die. We're malleable critters, and everything that occurs in our environment shapes the choices we make from that moment on.

Women train men all the time. Trust me on this one, I've been married for ten years. It's not a problem, and I'm not demeaned by it; it's part of learning to live together and building a partnership.

Now, Borla, YOU'RE trainable too. I'd encourage you to start training yourself to ask for things in a way that is clear. Maybe you need to add the phrase "And that's all!" to your requests. Maybe you need to be more specific. Asking for "just a regular pepsi" is different from asking for "a pepsi". A couple extra words, and you'll likely get exactly what you want.

You know the definition of insanity, right? Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. STOP HAVING THAT CONVERSATION. It doesn't work. You get to feel righteous and put-upon, which we like, but that's about all it does. Start looking at yourself and how you ask.

Look, last thought: you say your requests are "simple". Maybe "simple" isn't the way to get what you want. I know you think it's the right way to ask for things, but... if it doesn't get what you want, you might reconsider that.

SecretMethod70

That type of behavior is seriously insufferable. Honestly, I don't think I could even be friends with someone like that let alone intimately involved. If she thinks you might want a cherry pepsi instead of pepsi, or these other ingredients added to your food, she should ASK you. That's what onodrim, any of my friends, or I would do. Simply assuming you want something other than what you said is flat out inconsiderate and rude.

As for how to address the situation, based on the fact you say you've told her this many many times it seems like it's simply not going to change (which, by the way, is also extremely rude - it's not like it's difficult to simply get exactly what you asked for instead of changing it around and adding things now that you've expressed that desire). So, I'd either accept that you're never going to get what you ask for and live with the inconsiderate behavior, or stop asking her or letting her do things for you in the first place.

I really just can't even begin to understand it...that's among the rudest behavior I can even imagine IMO and I don't believe I know a single person who behaves in such a manner. As for being a "female" thing - that's either not true or it must be generational, because none of my female friends act that way (I'm in my early 20's). Trying to do something nice is one thing. Ignoring what you actually requested and doing something very different is entirely another, especially when you've also pointed out the problem multiple times.

/5c

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"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

Poppinjay

This stuff still bothers you? I reduced that irritation to low grade after the second year. My common reply now to, "would you like something to drink?" is "I'll get it in just a second."

As for snacks, she just does it. I no longer hope for or specify snack construction. I also don't make them myself because I do not have the internal clock that has snack time programmed into it. I don't dress myself either, or ask for certain clothes.

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I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

Borla

First of all, it happens in larger things too, I just named a minor example (and stated it was such) because it was most recent. It has nothing to do with a "snack" issue, and everything to do with an issue of simply listening.

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Poppinjay

I think I need an example of larger scale then.

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I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

Borla

Apply the same principle to any more important situation then.

Let's say we are planning a vacation. She says she'd like to go somewhere warm. I suggest making plans to go to Florida and lay on the beach for a few days. She agrees and says it sounds like a good idea (this part is key, because she doesn't warn me things are going to be different than we discussed). I tell her to make the travel arrangements, I'll get the time off, and we'll have some fun. We go to get on the plane, and I find out we're going to Bora Bora. I ask what happened to going to Florida. She says "well, I figured you wanted to go to the beach, so I thought if Florida was good, Bora Bora would be better!!" No discussions of it costing thousands more dollars, no discussions of any reason other than the beach for choosing Florida, no discussions of whether Bora Bora is a better choice, just "improving" on the idea without any communication.

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ratbastid

Ah! Well, that highlights another problem that was there with the pepsi example, but is freaking GLARING in the Florida example.

Why is she the one doing all the planning? Why is she the one fetching all the pepsis? If you were involved, you'd know her thinking at all steps, and you could either reign her in, or participate with her in changing the plan, rather than just being shanghaied by the outcome. Maybe she's letting you know something here?

Borla

In MOST decisions, we plan together. In that case the problem is avoided. However, as in practically any relationship, there are certain things that we each plan, arrange, or do on our own that effect us both. Read the post 7-8 posts up about the late night snack. I thought it was very clear what was being fixed. She was literally 20' away, so she could've easily just asked me if I preferred what she was thinking of making instead. For some reason she assumed I would think it was better, even though I'd specifically asked for something else, and even though it'd have been very simple to just ask.

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CandleInTheDark

I wonder why people assume that women actually know how their own brains work?

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Sultana

Bwahahaha!!! How true!

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Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.

shesus

When I figure out how my mind works Borla, you will be the first to know
Hmm, maybe I could research and write a book. I could become rich. Women are trained, and I don't mean as pets snowy , at a young age to be nurturing. Look at the toys for girls. That's not an excuse, but that's my little bit of input on this mysterious topic.

On the upside, she means well and is just trying to make you happy.
BTW, I'll take your cherry coke..it's much better than regular. Maybe your wife and I think the same way...why just have simple and boring, when you can have something more.

On a serious note, talk to her. Talking is a wonderful thing and will make you a happier person and couple.

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frogza

Okay here come the broad generalizations and yes I realize that their are likely many exceptions.

In my experience women are prone to make decisions based on their emotions, not logic. By nature, emotional decisions only make sense to the person making the decision, and many times only at the moment of the decision making.

She may be feeling anything, that she's doing you a favor or she wants to show you how much she loves you or that she feels your lazy and wants you to do more, or she could be making an empathy decision, ie. if she wanted a Pepsi it would be a cherry pepsi.

onodrim

Sorry to say it, but I pretty much agree. For whatever reason, she seems to believe that she is in the right and won't listen to you and I don't see how that could necessarily change. If you've told her not to do it in the past and she still continues, she's just ignoring you and continuing with the behavior she wants. Don't believe it's just a "girl" thing though, I assure you there are many women out there who don't do this and probably some men who do. At least this women has never felt the need to act that way. *shrug*

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-Carl Sagan

SecretMethod70

That's not empathy, that's a decision marked by self-centeredness. Applying one's own wants and needs to another, in spite of being told otherwise, stems from a way of thinking in which everyone is like you and you know best. And while most women are socialized to be nurterers, this has nothing to do with her behavior. Nurturing inherently involves being concerned for the happiness of another. Borla has repeatedly expressed unhappiness with this behavior. It's not nurturing, it's simply not listening. At all.

And I don't think this thread makes it seem like Borla is lazy and doesn't do any work. I could easily list off a ton of things onodrim has done for me, and she could list off a ton of things I have done for her. If I were making a thread complaining about the way in which onodrim doesn't listen when she does things for me, why would I have any reason to list off the things I have done for her? It doesn't add anything to the discussion. So, I don't think it's fair to assume based on the representations here that Borla isn't also doing things for himself and doing things for his wife.

EDIT: BTW, Borla, I hope you're not being too upset by my comments regarding your wife. I'm sure she's a wonderful person otherwise. I just couldn't possibly bear something like this in any of my relationships and so that comes out in expressing my opinion on the matter.

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

Seeker

It's a simple concept... someone asks for something, if you're getting it - get it.

To ignore the request specifically, and get something else, just because you think something else would be better, IS rude. And if a person doesn't take what you want into account... well, that reflects a pretty ugly position, and that's just for snacks!

The holiday... that's just playin' you... no question.

If you are in a relationship, and you are planning something (snacks to holidays), you usually endeavour to discuss the specifics... if you want one thing and it's not available, or you just find something else that's interesting, you communicate. Not consulting your partner before the deed is done is disrespectful and very rude.

Response from a working femme brain.

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Borla

SecretMethod70, I'm not offended at all.


Other than a few minor flaws (which I'm sure we can all readily admit we have plenty of), she is a wonderful woman and wife. It just continues to dumbfound me that this simple concept can't be grasped or applied by an otherwise wonderful and intelligent woman. She goes out of her way in some aspects to try to make me happy (and as was alluded to earlier, it IS a mutually beneficial relationship, not one-sided), but for some reason she consistently tried to "improve" any request or favor.

Definitely some good input in here though. Thanks all for the replies so far.

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vermin

I have experienced, to a degree, the same sort of thing as Borla. She's a control freak. Imposing her will onto "gifts" and "favors" is her way of maintaining control over things in your life as well as her own. You can either learn to adapt or take more control yourself. Problem with trying to take control is that it can have serious negative consequences to your relationship, depending on how important control is to her (and you'll never find out by asking). I have chosen the adapt route by doing things myself whenever I want something a certain way.

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Borla

Just as a bit of an update.......I had posted this same basic thread at about three different message boards that I visit. My wife stumbled upon it on the message board that I admin/own myself (she isn't a member there, but lurks on very rare occasion). The responses there weren't terribly different than here and her reading it led to what turned out to be a very positive conversation about it. She basically has done that sort of thing in an effort to please me, to exceed my expectations so to speak. We had a good conversation about ways we could both better do that for each other, and what ways we are better off not trying to do that.

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