Pragma

You repeatedly want to know if it's cheating. Is becoming friends with a girl - if you already have a girlfriend - cheating? Of course not. That's a stupid question to ask.

However, this isn't an average girl - this is a girl who wants you. If you ask her out for coffee, you should tell her straight up that you have a girlfriend and you aren't interested in cheating on your girlfriend. From there, you can see if you're still interested in being friends with the girl or if she just wanted to sleep with you.

The most damning thing that you've done, hossified, is to repeatedly ask if it's cheating. That pretty much proves you have more than innocent friendship in mind - and that's why there's so much discussion.

__________________
Eat antimatter, Posleen-boy!

StephenSa

If I recall correctily Hossified, you posted a thread a few weeks ago with concerns about your girlfriend's weight gain and the problems you were having dealing with it. I guess you have to look at yourself and your relationship and see if you are trying to find an "out" so you can move on. I'm not saying thats the deal but if you are unhappy in some way then that may be why you are having such a delima with this.
To answer the question you originally asked, I'd have to say yeah its cheating. If my girlfriend met some guy in a bar, drove him home, stayed up til five am talking and then arranged to meet him out for coffee sometime all without ever mentioning him to me then I would totally call her on it. I'd be angry and hurt and beyond suspicious. If you can't take your girlfriend with you to meet this other girl then its cheating and can only turn out badly. Do yourself a favor and forget about this girl until you understand where you stand with your current relationship.

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Thousands of Monkeys, all screaming at once. Pulling God's finger.

txlovely

Averett is right - yes, you are cheating. No, you don't get to "try on other people" when you're in a relationship. You wouldn't have posted this thread if you didn't feel guilty. Either leave your "gf of four years" or be loyal to her. Just because you get a charge out of some chick who shows you some interest after FOUR YEARS of being in a stable relationship should not immediately negate that relationship. If it does, you're just following your wanker regardless of what you may say to the contrary.

Men. *sigh*

And there is how much money being spent on studies to determine why the divorce rate is 50%? Just visit your local bar and find all the guys AND girls who are in long-term committed relationships who get their jollies off a little drunken lust and attention from someone new and ruin their loving, stable long-term relationships!!!

Sorry, but you'll be hardpressed to find a woman particularly who doesn't feel pretty strongly about this "gray area" IT'S NOT A GRAY AREA!!!! Staying in some flirting chick's apartment until 5 a.m. is not okay. Dump your girlfriend and then you can stay with a different chick every night guilt-free...

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Cruel words erode self-esteem like the ocean eats away the shore.

Sugar&Spice

If you only want a non romantic relationship with this girl then have a night out with friends. That way she can bring a few friends and you can bring some friends and even your girlfriend. If all that you want to be is friends I don't see why your gf couldn't be invited along.

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-Speak your mind even if your voice shakes

thespian86

ONCE AGIAN! txlovely, I believe the comment that should have been made was "Uhh... hossified!"

I'm a man and I don't cheat. Don't assume that I'm a jerk!

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EX: Whats new?
ME: I officially love coffee more then you now.
EX: uh...
ME: So, not much.

hossified

wow...I would have hated to see the response to this if I had actually done something!!! The staying over till 5 am.....was not only me...it was a couple buddies of mine...and of hers....so it was pretty neutral.....and I was the DD. Yeah...maybe I'm a little curious after being out of the 'game' for such awhile.....and am drawn to this girl for being real forward. She wasn't being slutty though.....just a good girl looking for a sweet guy......and she figured I was single.....maybe this is my way of sub-consciously avoiding the topic of getting 'more' serious with my gf...I have no idea.??? Just don't bust my balls.....cause I haven't done anything yet......it's like B'ing my b'lls for having a wet dream about another chick......kinda along the same lines......it's just thoughts right now.

i do appreciate the responses though...they have helped my open my eyes a bit...cause if not I would be meeting this girl for coffee right now.....instead of reading these posts!

Yakk

Hossified, if you want a better relationship than the one you currently have, do one of two things.

1> Break up with your current GF and find another girl.

2> Work hard on your relationship and try to make it better.

You chose option 3:
3> Start looking around for prospects of women who would make a better GF than the one you have.

The problem with option 3 is you are accepting and expecting commitment from your partner, but you aren't being committed to them. You are actually looking for another relationship. This is why people are saying you are cheating.

If you are in a committed relationship, you shouldn't be looking to trade up. If you want to trade up, be a fucking man about it and break up with your girlfriend.

The difference between what you want to do, and a married women who fucks strangers and trys to find a better person to be her husband, is a matter of degree not kind.

Could your girlfriend prove that your behavriour was less then perfect? No. It being difficult to catch you doesn't mean you didn't do the crime.

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Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

yournamehere

I can't see a "right reason" here.

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If you want to avoid 95% of internet spelling errors:
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It won't hurt your fashion sense, either.

txlovely

I love men and don't think ALL are jerks, punkmusicfan21! Most of my friends are men and nice ones too! Heck, I even love one, who has both the capacity to be very loving or cut me to the quick. Whether or not I'm willing to accept the latter is only for me to decide.

Some men, like some women, just don't think about others before they act. Rule of thumb for everyone is if you think your SO would be hurt by your actions, then don't act OR you should break it off with the SO. That's only fair to both parties.

__________________
Cruel words erode self-esteem like the ocean eats away the shore.

iamnormal

If you do anything that you feel you the need to lie about or keep private then you are cheating.

HLP

This is just silly. Be open with your girlfriend.

Tell yourself AND her that sure you might have been tempted by this girl but call it curiosity or wanting to prove to yourself after 4 years of off the market you can still get women BUT say that it was just that. Some passing thing with some passing girl.

Being open with your SO is key. Forgiveness and understanding comes with total honesty. Forget and forgive the past, THAT is a healthy relationship.

SAM821

just remember the more time and interest you put into this new girl, the more you take away from what you have and in the end you may end up losing both... make a decision and stick with it...

you cant have your cake and eat it too (if thats how the saying goes)

KnifeMissile

I am shocked at the possessiveness of this forum. I thought I was the jealous and possessive type but I guess I'm not!

The thought police are here!
How, in any way, do your thoughts constitute cheating? If I fantasize about someone else while we're having sex, is that cheating? If I'm looking at porn while masturbating, is that cheating? If I'm having coffee with a girl (as Pragma has suggested), is that cheating? Really, everyone needs to look at this, realistically.

Yes, you are attracted to her. Yes, she is attracted to you. So, what? Attraction, in and of itself, is not cheating! Talking is not cheating. If you were to spill your semen inside this girl--okay, that would be cheating. Hell, kissing her would be cheating. I'd even go as far as to say holding her hand would be cheating (in our society, anyway). Coffee and conversation is not...

Here, what I think, are the real questions you need to answer. Did you agree to stop talking with women? Did you two agree to actively avoid anyone you find attractive? Did you agree that, if you ever met someone you might like better then her, you would try your best to never see this someone, ever again? If you can honestly answer yes to any questions like these then, yeah, you are cheating. Otherwise, you're not. It's that simple.

Now, don't get me wrong, I would be less then impressed if you actively tried to hide these things from your girlfriend. You don't have to volunteer every detail, just tell her that you like this girl and you're hanging out. There's nothing wrong with that (unless you said yes to any of the previous questions!). If she asks for more detail, I suggest that you tell her. If you don't feel you can be open with your girlfriend of four years, that's another (separate) problem. If you think she'll take it badly that's, yet, another (separate) problem.

The situation's not ideal but that's life.

I don't understand the attitudes of this forum. It's as if no one thinks there can ever be a reason for someone to break-up with their girlfriend or boyfriend. That's insane! How many of you have ever been involved in a break-up? How many times? Why did it happen? People break-up all the time, even after four years, and one of the most common reasons for doing so is that you've met someone else...

Paq

just wanna chime in and say that meeting her for coffee is a bad idea.

Think of it this way, what are the possible outcomes of this situation:
1. you don't go or pursue the new girl, but thoughts of her are in your head and eventually, you resent your current gf bc she is keeping you from being with other, interesting people. Your resentment builds and either you have a serious talk wiht your current gf and you resolve to make it work, or the talk is a breakup talk.

2. you go for coffee, fall head over heels in lust, maybe won't do anything with her, but you'll think about it. The rest of this goes as scenario 1

3. You go for coffee, realize she's just wanting in your pants and while you find that flattering, you realize it's very shallow and you don't want to ruin a 4 yr relationship bc of it, so you don't see her anymore and you dno't really think of her

4. your GF finds this post and kicks you off the island.

5. you realize you're already cheating in your head and feel guilty.

6. You realize you are unsure of the 4yr relationship and sit down and have a serious talk getting everything out in the open, which will either break you both up or you'll propose.

Sounds like you're just looking for a backup or an excuse to break up.

__________________
Live.

Chris

crow_daw

I'm a hardcore loyal person, and I say yes, it is cheating. That is just my two cents, but I know that if my girlfriend did that exact thing, I'd be mad as hell, so I would never do it. I am jealous as hell by nature though.

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"We each have a star, all we have to do is find it. Once you do, everyone who sees it will be blinded." - Earl Simmons

Pellaz

KnifeMissile, I think what most people are trying to get across is that intentions matter. It seems like you're saying they don't. For example, If a man called an escort service, the girl got to his room, and then the vice squad bursts in, I'd consider that he cheated. It doesn't matter that he never got to touch the escort, that was his clear intention. You seem to be saying that that's ok, as long as nothing actualy happened.

People aren't saying that it's not ok to break up. They aren't even saying it's not ok to break up because you meet someone else. The problem comes up with this:
To me, that's asking if it's ok to keep your current mate as a backup while you secretly audition others for the role, 'just in case' things don't work out with the other 'applicants'. If you or your partner feel that you are in a commited relationship, it's assuredly wrong to actively practice this type of behavior behind the others back. That's just basic human decency.

__________________
" ' Big Mouth.
Remember it took three of you to kill me.
A god, a boy, and, last and least, a hero.' "

KnifeMissile

Your analogy of the escort service is true. I would consider that cheating, too. It was never my intention to say that, just because nothiing physically happened, that it's okay.

What I'm saying is that a commiting relationship doesn't mean you can't meet other people. Now, I agree that this shouldn't be done behind the other's back but I disagree that this shouldn't be done, at all.
I mean, it's a pretty fine line between seeing someone because you like them and seeing someone because you like them enough that you might eventually leave your current girlfriend for her. So fine, in fact, that I don't think there really is any difference. When it comes to these kinds of situtations, I lean towards freedom. I mean, it's ridiculous to avoid seeing people you like because something romantic might happen, isn't it? Your SO can leave you at any time for any (or no) reason so you should always be prepared for that.

Again, I should probably mention that things are a little different if deception is involved and that includes "lying by ommision..."

Jackebear

Dude, I almost got caught once...Shit. I was a wreck for 2 weeks thinking what an idiot I was and how could I screw up such a good thing. I would have lost the best part of me over some liason with some girl who lived a little closer to me than my GF of 5 years. I quickly gained my senses and broke it off and will NEVER do that again, EVER. I am so happy already. Why ruin that?

Bottom line is...something, anything so tiny, you don't even think about, could screw this up. And there is a good chance you will be caught and you will regret it for a long time.

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Life's jounney is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn-out shouting, "Holy sh*t! What a ride!" - unknown

CheeseButtons

Well...It's not cheating...but it's also not cool. I would feel horrible if my SO were to do something like that...and I would feel like it would be some sort of emotional cheating, but then again I'm a jealous guy.

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Sorrow is better than laughter,
because a sad face is good for the heart. -Ecclesiastes 7:3

hossified

I like the thinking of Knifemissle. Now I still haven't decided to do anything yet...but I don't see a compariosn to this situation and the escort scenario. I just want to get to know the girl better. Hell it could end up as a great friendship......or it could lead to something more.....or nothing at all......but the intention is to get to know her better. For me.....the difference between marriage and not....is the ability to be able to choose to 'trade up ' so to speak...otherwise.....why wouldn't I be married after 4 years??? But why is that a bad thing (as alot of you are suggesting).....maybe I'm not with the right girl now, and maybe I am.....but how will I know.....if I can't even talk to other girls????? I see cheating as an intimate encounter...possibly even holding holds....but meeting a stranger for a coffee, in my books isn't. Now doing it without telling my current gf.....makes it a little worse...and vice versa if she were to pull that one on me.....yeah I'd be mad......but I wouldn't dump her over it.....so....I dunno......there's alot of differing opinions on here....and I still haven't decided on the course I should / will take......but thanks for your thoughts folks

Averett

Of course, he's agreeing with you to a certain point.

Wow... So you're just sorta hanging on to your girlfriend, and looking to "trade up". Frankly I find this disgusting.

Yeah, but would she dump you over it?

Maybe I'm too old fashioned. But when I'm dating somebody, then they are the ONLY person I want to be with. I never have the thought of "trading up". Jesus, do most people think this? Why bother being in a relationship if you've got it in the back of your mind that you might be able to do better?

Argh. This is just pissing me right off.

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Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.

hossified

well I guess you and me wouldn't make a good couple Averett.....but I could tell you the sex would be awesome!!! haha

...my intention isn't to 'trade up' or to cheat or to hang onto my gf till something better comes along.....and I know it's not 'great' to be thinking of possibilities with other girls......but it's just thoughts....and if I were to ever do soemthing.....I would be decent enough to talk to my gf prior and fill her in...take the slap in the face like a man....and move on.....this thread just shows the thoughts of one guy......and how he thinks when offered the possibility of a 'new girl' that is into him and that he finds attractive........and I'm sure it happens to every 'attached' guy a couple of times a year!!!!

ruggerp11

If you have to ask...

__________________
Patriotism means being loyal to your country all the time and to its government when it deserves it.
--Mark Twain
Do What makes you happy
--Me
BUT!
"Happiness is the absence of the striving for happiness" - Chuang-Tzu

thespian86

His intentions. There is nothing wrong with going out to coffee. If my girlfriend wanted to go out with a guy for coffee i'd say "Have fun sweetheart"

__________________
EX: Whats new?
ME: I officially love coffee more then you now.
EX: uh...
ME: So, not much.

KnifeMissile

I don't think this is quite true. When you're dating someone, they are the only person you want to be with, right then. If someone better came along, what would you think? Would you deliberately avoid them because you might develop feelings for this better person? Really?
Even if you did develop feelings for the other person, you still have a choice of whether to pursue it or not. Despite what you have heard in the movies, things don't "just happen." Things happen because you make them happen. It's that simple.

Much of your argument is just rhetoric (which I regret hearing from you). Why bother being in a relationship? Well, just because you might find someone better, later, doesn't mean you don't enjoy being intimate with the person you're with, right? This is just common sense and nothing about it is a part of fashion.

A romantic relationship, despite how long it has lasted, is not a marriage. In my opinion, marriage isn't taken seriously enough by society, so perhaps it's meaning has been diluted, but that's what I think you're thinking of, Averett...

Averett

If I was in a relationship, there wouldn't be anyone else better that could come along. Unless say... Colin Farrell should show up at my door, but I doubt that'll happen. When I'm in a relationship, I think that person is the best person out there for me. There is nobody else. This is honestly how I operate. If you're my boyfriend, then you're it for me. If I were to meet another guy, I couldn't even entertain the thought of that person being my boyfriend. The second I begin to think that the person I'm with isn't the one for me, then it's off. I don't see the point in staying in a relationship if I don't feel like the person is compatable to me. If I were to stay with the person knowing that he isn't for me, then it would just get worse. Sure, I'd getting affection and all that stuff on a regular basis, but it would be empty for me.

I agree that things just don't happen. Which is why I couldn't choose to half ass pursue somebody else while in a relationship. I couldn't ask a guy out for coffee with the intent of getting to know him to see if we had potential as a couple. That would't be fair to the relationship that I'm currently in.

What do you mean by that?

I talked a bit about this already... Of course I'm not silly enough to think that the very next relationship that I'll enter into will result in a white picket fence and 2.5 kids and that whole bit. Relationships fail all of the time. But like I said, when I'm with somebody I act as if this is it. This is the one. The second I start feeling differently, well, it's time to have a nice long talk with my boyfriend...

Of course just any old relationship doesn't equate to a marriage. I also think that the meaning of marriage has been diluted a bit. But I guess when I'm in a commited relationship, then that's it.

Hell, I've taken up too much space in this thread as it is. And this was way off topic. Sorry yall... This is a topic for another thread in another day....

If anyone wants to talk more about this stuff with me, just send a PM.

I'm not angry with anyone or pissed or whatever. I just have a history with this kind of thing.

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Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.

hossified

BINGO!!!

....if I was 100% devoted and satisfied and content in my relationship right now...I would be married! Is that a horrible thing to say...I don't think so...cause there are lots of long term relatinoships out there! It doesn't mean I'm waiting for something better......it just means I am not sure if this is the person I want to spend the rest of my life with! Am I a bastard for saying this...maybe in some of your definitions......but I see myself as a rationalist and realist...

either way I'll let you guys know what I do.....when I decide.....and keep you updated

Averett

Listen, all you have to do is be open and honest with your girlfriend....

TALK TO HER!!!

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Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.

Grothendieck

hossified: I split up with my ex-girlfriend recently for another girl. You're the only one to know what's right. Talk to her (the "other" girl). Find out. Then decide...
Relations between humans change in time. Let me just say that although I know I hurt my ex with my actions, it was more honest. And I'm more happy...

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Didn't remember how intense love could be... Thank you B.

slimcr

I agree with Averett.

MSD

If you're asking us instead of her, it's not a good indication.
If you have to ask, it isn't a good indication
If you don't tell her for fear of what she'll think, it's cheating.

yster

The fact that everyone keeps saying 'ask your gf', 'talk to her', etc, makes that a pretty clear course of action.
The reasons seem to be what is unclear. Not everyone is looking for marriage in every relationship, even if that would be nice. People are social creatures, naturally craving a certain amount of intimacy and sense of belonging. As long as you clearly define what you want from your relationship with your girlfriend, and you are both in agreement, there really isn't a problem. Maybe you could both start seeing other people, while maintaining some of what you have, if you are in agreement. If your girlfriend believes you have a completely monogamous relationship though, and that her evaluating other potential mates over coffee would break your mutual trust, then obviously that would be cheating.

hossified

well upon more thought.....I've realized it is kinda shady of me...cause I would be doing it without telling my gf......which means that it is a 'scouting' meeting. My dilemma is though....that I'm still considering it???......doesn't that tell me something about my current relationship...that I might be a little bored or tired of it??

how many other guys have had this scenario...and what did you do???

Everyone is saying talk to your gf...well what do i say...hey honey...some girl was into me at the bar, and gave me her number and I'm thinking of going out to coffee with her....do you still love me??

Averett

ack, forget it.

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Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.

hossified

no as a matter of fact I haven't...but why do you assume it's me who has the trouble with adult conversations???....I've been quite forthcoming and explanatory on this site......so my answer to that ...is it is her who has the troubles. No matter what way I tell her about the weight issue....she would flip right out.....and prolly cut me off....of the minimal sex we are having now...which will just push me to pursue other options further. I would like to know for sure in my mind too...before I worry her about our relationship lasting......simply on a whim!

Redlemon

Ah, you were SO close.

Girl #2 is not important at all to this conversation with your GF. The conversation is "I'm having the following concerns about our relationship. (fill in here). Is there any hope?"

Obviously, you shouldn't be that blunt about it, but that is the gist.

hossified

geez....I just don't know if I am prepared for that conversation!!??

maybe I should just surpress these feelings I'm having and go on with the status-quo......(has worked other times)!

Averett

My last bit of advice. Break it off with you girlfriend.

Oh, you shouldn't be "telling" her about the weight issue, you should be TALKING WITH HER about it.

Conversation is a give and take. As are relationships. You don't seem happy with your girlfriend, so just do her a favor and break up with her. She'd be better in the long run.

Ack again.

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Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.

MageB420666

Hossified you have problems.

You have decided on a subconcious level(at least) that you do not want to spend the rest of your life with your current girlfriend.
You seem to be more worried about getting sex in your relationship than having a relationship. I say you need to break it off with your current girlfriend, let her know what an asshole you've been for leading her on. Do this so that you and she can find the people that will make you and her happy.

You have not cheated by thinking about going to have coffee with the other girl, but if you went with the intention of finding out if something more was there, you would be cheating. That includes forming a friendship first. Your still trying to hook up with her.

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Apathy: The best outlook this side of I don't give a damn.

Averett

AAAAmen Mage....

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Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.