Midnightskyline

Hi everyone, first post here.

So basically I wanted to start with a question, have you ever delved into the history/Past of your spouse? Namely old emails, social networking posts, old texts etc. And if so, have you ever discovered something you wish you hadn't? I'm sort of looking for someone to identify with me here. Although I know and understand completely that snooping is wrong and it exposes my insecurities, but the expression 'curiosity killed the cat' was coined for a reason! I have a loving long term relationship with my girlfriend (we are both mid 20's) but one day I discovered (she left her email signed in and the page open) a few emails from before we were together (I know I know I know), some of which contained stuff that no red blooded male wants to read about his supposedly innocent and pure of mind better half.

The reason I decided to post this in the sexuality section is because this clandestine knowledge has started to affect my sex life, and to a greater extent, my day to day happiness and comfort. I find myself constantly looking for more information, more old emails etc etc. Not good. I suppose I am insecure and a little immature, but you must realise the first discovery was almost accidental, which lead to my near obsession with her past. Anyone else had similar experiences? How did you deal with it?

You must realise, before casting aspersions, that I admit my faults and know that it is wrong. I am simply seeking for someone to identify with and for some advice or perhaps similar experiences.

Incidentally, if anyone would require details of the 'dirt' those old emails contained then I shall provide if asked, albeit with a grimace and stomach butterflies!

Thanks for reading. Please no tldr's or trolls, lol. Oh and I hate typing on a bloody iPhone!

telekinetic

Holy crap, your girlfriend wasn't a virgin when you met her? Dump her immediately!

Well, I can understand that, I guess, just talk to her about what you read, apologize for snooping, cross any bridges that need crossing as maturely as possible ("I know it was none of my business to be in there and read that, but since I did, I need to ask: why won't you do xxxxx for me? I'd like it, too!" or "that was really unexpected, I didn't know you were into yyyyy") and move on.
Whoa, wait, what? You're only fooling yourself if you think that the first discovery was accidental...you 'accidentally' started reading her SENT emails from (presumably) years ago, before you were dating? Bullshit, you were snooping and you knew it then, and know it now. Not to mention the fact that you are STILL ACTIVELY DOING IT EVEN THOUGH YOU KNOW IT IS TOXIC TO YOU AND YOUR RELATIONSHIP??

THEN STOP DOING IT You know what I think? The fact that you keep searching out such information makes me think you were titillated by it, on some level, which has led you to obsessively seek out more of it, and your desire to share it with us is an extension of that. Hell no, we (I) don't want you to rehash it for us to comiserate about what a whore your girlfriend used to be--with (presumably) her significant other, before she dated you.

I hope you don't think I'm trolling, but I want you to realize: You are 100% in the wrong, and she is 100% in the right...there's not shared guilt here. You need to confess, tell her to change her passwords, and deal with the invasion of privacy you inflicted upon her, or you need to acknowledge that you won't be able to get past it, and move on. If it had been emails WHILE you were dating, that would be a slightly different story, but you'd still be in the wrong. But that your sex life is being affected by stuff she wrote to her ex BEFORE you were dating is TOTALLY unfair to her--imagine what she's probably thinking is wrong?

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Midnightskyline

Haha, I knew i had a good feeling about this place. Thanks for your response telekinetic, I appreciate your sincerity. One thing stood out to me most with your reply. Titillation? Good word but sick enjoyment is probably a better description. I don't know why. Very perceptive of you though! I think I need to properly admit this fact to myself properly in order to forget and move on.

I know I'm completely in the wrong. I know. But why the hell am I so curious? Why would I want to do it to myself and to her?

I appreciate the suggestion, but I don't think I'll say anything to her. I realise this is deceitful but I don't see what either of us would stand to gain. I'm going to have to get over this myself, in my own time. Any suggestions on how to do this? I have a very addictive personality and find it very difficult to break habits. I lack willpower and self esteem most of the time, but that is an issue for another day.



You've certainly given me food for thought, I'll sleep on it and post again tomorrow. Thanks again for not being dismissive.

wyopen

Her sexual life before you has nothing to do with you (except the experience she gained.) It may be exciting to read, but shouldn't affect how you feel about her or the sex you have with her. She probably didn't know you when she had those other experiences.

Talk to her about her previous experiences and be willing to share honestly with her, too. There may be more of a thrill in finding out sexual things about her without her knowing it, but if you're into her for the long run, openness and honesty will yield more benefits.

Have fun and enjoy each other!

jewels

I did something similar in a relationship a few years back, when I felt insecure and thought I couldn't trust him. Obviously, the trust wasn't there and the relationship was doomed to fail.

Are you jealous? Suspicious? Paranoid? Has she given you a reason to doubt her? I'm not accusing, just suggesting that you think about what enticed you to look in the first place. It would be a good idea to come clean and discuss your reasoning if you've any interest in the growth of this relationship.

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kramus

A family friend is dealing with this snoopin' and wonderin' issue RFN. She had to know if there was anything, and now she knows. Now she's tiptoing around, dropping hints and digging at something that is totally, totally not what her SO would want out there. This can only lead to a disaster.

I think the only way to deal with your dilemma is straight up, with a full on confession and cleansing conversation. The longer you wait the worse it will be. Either deal with it and clear the air and move on (fess up, talk it out, and cut that snoopin' shit out FFS), or accept that the relationship is now a zombie - it's dead but it doesn't know it.

Then again, if you can trick yourself into playing mind games and finding this past whatever totally hot in a mindfuck way, you can internally role-play, or maybe even get her to ride your own pony now that you have an inkling that that pony is in the stable. Make it a win in a twisted, private and sexually semi-sick way. Your call.

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KellyC

No. I made a point to not ask about her past and not tell her about mine, unless it was absolutely necessary, like she was abused and I did or say something stupid that might bring up bad memories/emotions.

Plus I'm also the jealous type so knowing doesn't help either, lol.

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Cynthetiq

My wife was a virgin and didn't date anyone before me.

I don't talk much about my past women from a sex standpoint. I do talk about my past relationships as happenstance adventures and tales, and if she had any I'd expect her to do the same.

Any other past relationship I had, I didn't care what their past was, one was even married before. So what.

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Orogun01

I guess you should really ask yourself what the hell makes you so "holier than thou" that gives you the right to be so judgmental of her past.

Tell her all the dirty thing that you have done and see if she still the thinks the same of you, or if she is like you and has problems overcoming the fact that people are flawed.

Santa Claus doesn't exists, your parents aren't the greatest people in the universe, and your spouse is not likely to be perfect. That's life, take it or leave it.

Midnightskyline

Thanks for the replies everyone. I agree with almost everything you've said. Putting it into action is the most difficult thing.

One thing I forgot to mention; the emails I mentioned, there was a total of 18 emails in her inbox. All but two were mundane work emails from the last week or so. the other two were from 2007 or something. What does it signify that she kept these naughty emails when she obviously cleans her inbox regularly? The emails are not even from guys, they're updates to her friend on all he sexual exploits from around that period. So why keep them?

I realise I sound like I'm being ridiculous here, and holier than thou, but im just curious.
Thanks again

snowy

Dude, you violated her private space. I'm sorry, but I really feel like that alone means you're not entitled to ask questions about what she does with her emails. They're her emails. Why does it matter where she keeps them? Maybe she finds them funny and keeps them where she does for a laugh once in a while when she's down. Maybe she finds them titillating and keeps them there for a thrill. The point is, it could be any one of a million things or reasons, and none of them are your business.

In mature relationships, her personal space is her personal space--emails, voicemails, texts--unless she has given you permission to go into them.

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If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Orogun01

If this makes you feel inadequate you should confront her about it, it will simply won't go away and it will spread into other areas.

Just know that if you do you will catch hell for snooping, so try to be as non-confrontational as possible.

zenda

Hi Midnightskyline

I am very much with what Snowy says on this one. Yes, I understand you are curious, and you wish to delve into the content of those emails. Your offer to share details with people who PM you claim. Did you take any copies of those emails? If so, delete them. You've made it clear that you probably don't want to tell her about it, and that dealing with it in and by yourself is the a better course, but that you have an addictive personality, weak will and low self esteem.


Snowy's perspective gives you, imo, supports your preference, and gives you, I believe, a basis for action to test for the next week. Live the next week according to that perspective. Practice making it your own, minute by minute and thought by thought.
You are addictive, therefore glut yourself on this practicing this attitude. You have low self esteem, and you won't be making a fuss, you have weak will, so you'll just be keeping it to yourself. As you say, those qualities are issues for another time, and worth developing beyond, but for now, they ARE your tools. Embrace them and they will be your leverage.


Do all this in the knowledge that you can, all the while, become very curious and take detailed inventory, what it's like and how you feel doing this, now for a week. Replace your previous sense of 'what shall I do' with 'now I shall do this, and let's find out what's it like.'

You lose nothing by trying this. At the end of the week, you may choose to continue this, yet if you choose to ask different questions, your this week will have given yourself powerful resources as you seek the next answers, whatever you choose to confront or let go. For the more you make this about YOUR behaviours, the more you will understand your own thoughts and motivations, and thus be better informed as you decide wisely.

Best wishes

__________________
ZENDA

xenonman

Often times, it's necessary.
Otherwise, as has happened with me, you'll keep finding other guys popping out of the woodwork whom she has conveniently never mentioned.

telekinetic

If by 'often times' you mean 'never'.

Trust or do not trust, there is no healthy 'trust as long as my snooping hasn't turned up anything that makes me distrust you'

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snowy

Amen, brother.

Snooping is never justified in a mature, healthy relationship.

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Poetry

I'm a girl who likely makes your girlfriend's exploits look like... well, nothing much.

And I will say from my own life that when I do write about my experiences (which is often), I keep everything I write. Because they're memories. Because they're important to me. They're a record of where I've been and what I've done, something I'm going to be able to look back on twenty years from now and go either "goddamn, I had fun" or, you know, cringe.

Whatever.

It was four years ago. She's likely keeping it for posterity. It's not like it was an address file of men who are good lays with relationship status updated on a weekly basis.

No, don't go looking for that. Even I don't keep one of those. It was a joke. Back away from her computer.

MSD

Have you ever reminisced with friends about the "good old times" you had in past relationships? It's perfectly normal to keep mementos as long as you're not clinging to the past.

edit: that obnoxious emoticon was way too big. Better keep it in reserve.

The_Jazz

Were you on a kick or something? Pretty much everything you posted in the span of 20 minutes is plain old bad advice.

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telekinetic

Thank you to whichever staff corrected the title, it was breaking my head.

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twisted no more

xenonman

Actually, I think it's very practical advice.
Are you the only poster that's permitted to be a schmuckl here?

The_Jazz

You're welcome to your opinion. There are several of us who disagree and think that it's more problematic than problem-solving - as seen by the others who agreed with me. Your advice is that it's ok to snoop in your significant other's email to find old boyfriends. I don't agree in any way.

As for my comment about your other posts, I'm allowed to have an opinion and state it. Which is, again, that you gave some bad advice in more than one thread. At least one of which you didn't bother to read.

Sorry if you expected sunshine, rainbows and 100% agreement. You're welcome to report the post(s) if you think I'm out of line and broke the TFP rules. I'm sure that I'm not and I didn't, but feel free if it makes you feel better.

You know, for a guy that posts exclusively in Tilted Sexuality, you seem to have a pretty narrow view of the subject. What are you, a minister or something? No, anyone with training would know that violating someone's privacy like that would kill a relationship. A deacon?

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

jewels

What makes it practical? It's not much of a discussion when someone answers without a valid explanation. Those of us who've been in long-term relationship know that a relationship's nothing without trust, so two people either have to work extremely hard to get it back or walk away, knowing they can't get past it.

You were in a relationship where someone cheated on you? I'm sorry if you chose to stay with it and found it to be worse than you initially thought, or at least that's my best guess based on your 3 sentences posted in this thread. Wouldn't you agree now that it would've been a lot easier to confront the issue than invade her privacy? Please tell us how your experience impacted you and how you felt it made the relationship better.

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We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
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Ourcrazymodern?

I thought I knew everything I needed to know about my ex-wife before we were married with no snooping involved. I assume she thought the same. That we both turned out to be mistaken...well, at least we were quite aware of each other's pasts.

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xenonman

I stand by my advice about the need to keep a close eye on sex partners.
It may not be the nicest thing to have to do, but I'm afraid it's absolutely necessary.
Most likely, she hasn't told you everything about her past, particularly if there are sex partners that she's still seeing.
YES, that does happen.

---------- Post added at 03:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:00 PM ----------

It may not make for a better relationship, but generally it's not much of a relationship anyway if she's still seeing other people without your being aware.
...and YES, that does happen.

jewels

Having your eyes open is different than secretly invading someone's privacy. Put the shoe on the other foot.

As for sex partners, hell yeah. Go get tested together instead of taking someone's word for something like that. There's no reason to keep an eye out, get the facts. But if you're beyond that and considering commitment in the relationship, the foundation of trust is crucial.

And I do realize, OCM, that stuff happens. I'm sorry it happened to you and it will happen sometimes. But that doesn't mean you've started all other relationships snooping and mistrusting, does it?

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We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
Mark Twain

waitforsugar

It's never necessary to betray someone's trust by snooping through their things. I have never cheated in any relationship I've ever had. I would never put my partner through that and I certainly wouldn't stand for having my privacy violated. If I caught someone looking through my things that would be an automatic deal-breaker.

Ourcrazymodern?

Wise post, jewels. To answer your question, no. I'm still overly trusting & quite easily betrayed.

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BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

Poetry

I think this is more of a personality of the person in question that a number of sex partners or if they are still friends with their sex partners.

I'm curious to know if what you mean by "seeing" is seeing socially or dating/sleeping with.

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ralphie250

thats pretty much how mine was. my wife was a virgin and she know i wasnt, but i never talked about it. i knew better

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Midnightskyline

Hey guys, sorry I haven't been keeping up to date with this thread, but I' decided, having read Zenda's post, to give his/her (apologies) advice a shot. I decided to take the previous couple of weeks a day at a time, and to try to admit my weaknesses, and most of all *embrace* them, and use them. For example, every time in the last two weeks (which has actually been all too common, unfortauntely) i've thought of her past or how to expose it, and wound myself up about it, I've thought to myself that I am weak willed, so nothing will come of it anyway apart from my own depression.

Good advice, and it seems to have worked, although unfortunately only temporarily. There were a good couple of points in the posts above, actually too many to start quoting, but a couple stood out

1. I have no right to judge her because I shouldn't have been snooping. Too true, I had already thought of this but perhaps not to the extent I should have.

2. She keeps them for posterity? Hm that is a good point. I assumed she'd kept the old emails so she could cheer herself up now and again with a good old trip down memory lane about how promiscuous and naughty she once was. Fair enough, I was promiscuous once also but the sticking point is that I haven't kept anything of that order (I don't have facebook, had a few new email addresses since then, etc), so why would she? She's her own person?! No way! lol. It simply hurt a little to think that I didn't scratch that itch for her completely.

3. Poetry - let me ask you a question. Please don't dismiss it and properly think it about it, if you would. You say you've kept a large part of your correspondance from previous partners...Fair enough, but how would you react if your partner suddenly came to you all upset and depressed, because he'd found, read, and pored over them? Would you tell him to shut up because it's private, would you ignore it? Would you listen to him and try to work things out? Would you apologise (I get the feeling i'm going to get shot down here, but i'm simply being hypothetical), would you be angry? The reason I ask is because I'm considering whether I should tell my girlfriend or not. It would be good to hear a women's perspective, and how you'd possibly react.

4. Why is it so pathetic to feel this way? And why can I admit that it is pathetic, and yet do very little about it?

5. Am I over controlling? Just out of interest, If I were to mention that i'd found all this stuff to her, I wouldn't accuse her or make her feel like a whore. I'd simply tell her that I'd found them and I wish I hadn't and how can she help me forget about it. What do you guys think of that, sound reasonable or absolutely not?

6. Thanks for your responses guys, they mean a lot and actually help as well.

7. Thanks also for fixing the title. Don't know how to edit!

zenda

Hi Midnightskyline

I'm male. Thank you for 'sticking to a plan' for two weeks. Even though you wound yourself up about it, you went well beyond the week: you succeeded for twice as long, and, as is obvious from your recent post, are continuing to do so. From the way you wrote, I did suspect that you might have stronger will than you thought, so I am not surprised you were actually able to go the extra mile. I'd like to put it to you that you are keeping your head above water in spite of strong currents, and that your will is operating far more strongly than you feel.

I know you know you've reached dry land yet, but I appreciate the humour you've directed at yourself as you're working through this: "I haven't kept anything of that order, so why would she? She's her own person?! No Way. Lol."

It reminds me of the ironic Rex Harrison moment in My Fair Lady "Why can't a Woman ... be more like ME"

We place ourselves as the Pole Star and Measure of what's reasonable - and are surprised by the world



I also appreciate that you've clarified your position to the possibility of opening the following conversation with her:
I have stuck closely to your words, and I have embellished only to 'amplify' them.


Let's walk straight past the 'You shouldn't have been going through her stuff in the first place' - from your first post you have been solid on that, and I reckon you've already learnt your lesson from that: it put you in an impossible situation regardless of emails' content, therefore, Never Again


Let's visit with these two core elements you identified, and which are possible seeds for solutions beyond your expectations:
Her keeping the emails = 'you didn't scratch that itch for her completely'
If you tell her you saw them => she can help you forget it
See how you can grow and nourish them:

Her keeping emails can mean [=] other than only what you guessed. Eg YOU are the one she's chosen to be with more permanently = you ARE scratching her most complete itch. They are the ones she DIDN'T stay with. Another EG could be NOT about YOU At All: keeping them could be about HER and her way of tracking continuity and progress in her life. Ther are further examples which I need YOU to generate this week, because you know yourself longer and better than I do.

Conversely, if she was NOT keeping emails, it wouldn't necessarily mean that everything is hunky dory and you DO scratch that itch for her, and when you remember your own Prolific Pageant of Partners in Promiscuity, do you conclude that your present girlfriend leaves absolutely NO itch of YOURS UNscratched? Are there not more itches she could scratch if you let her know? And is it not more productive and possibly more fun to wonder how you may BETTER scratch her itches?

I mean, rightly or wrongly, you've concluded that you 'didn't scratch that itch for her completely', haven't you? - could you not have worried about that possibility anyway? I mean - you're good at doing low-self esteem even before you look at her computer ... so if you're ACHING - ITCHING to have conversations, why not SCRATCH a lot deeper than recent 'surfaces'? Just imagine saying something like:
The above possiblility is NOT intended to become part of a scenario leading to the revelation - er ... just imagine adding to her:
then cringe, duck and cover ... and NO.

... Because all this is about focussing both your attentions on the core marked out previously:
Her keeping the emails = 'you didn't scratch that itch for her completely'
If you tell her you saw them => she can help you forget it
And to offer what I hope is one respectful transformation:
You are worried <= you might not be scratching that itch for her completely
If you tell her this = she can, if she chooses, give you some reassurance and also provide some specific areas for improvement


Well, Midnightskyline, I'm nearly done for now, so imagine it's next week and you've been sorting through this for another week, and your general esteem and itch-scratching concerns with her are more fully 'in process', whether improving or just in realistic directions for improvement as you've been thoroughly thinking through. How less difficult do you feel now to quietly make sense to begin to finally get past the 'looking through her stuff' stuff, and more fully into your shared stuff between each and both of you?

Take care.

__________________
ZENDA

chinese crested

A gentleman would not go rummaging in a ladys knicker drawer when her back is turned. It wasnt an accident on your part, you were being an opportunist. You are guilty of doing a bad thing in the present - so she made a few mistakes in her past - who goes to the grave with none of those on their road in life?
What she had on her computer was old stuff - not present stuff. You know what - most women dont like to brag to men about their bridget jones/period pants. Its not something you would really want toknow about, and they are not items most men would wish to inspect - you, of course, may be different.
You certainly have a problem with trust, and she deserves to know about it - especially as you say you are obsessive and it is affecting the relationship. She probably knows it isnt in balance, and may well be wondering what she has done wrong. Nothing. Ask for forgiveness.

'Poetry - let me ask you a question. Please don't dismiss it and properly think it about it, if you would. You say you've kept a large part of your correspondance from previous partners...Fair enough, but how would you react if your partner suddenly came to you all upset and depressed, because he'd found, read, and pored over them? Would you tell him to shut up because it's private, would you ignore it? Would you listen to him and try to work things out? Would you apologise (I get the feeling i'm going to get shot down here, but i'm simply being hypothetical), would you be angry? The reason I ask is because I'm considering whether I should tell my girlfriend or not. It would be good to hear a women's perspective, and how you'd possibly react.'


I have kept many of mine - from the days when we used proper ink and paper. To me - I dont drag them out and pour through them, but sometimes - like when I was moving house - I came across a couple of old love letter - and it was sweet, to remember myself as seen through the eyes of someone at the time who cared for me and I for them. I keep letters from friend and family. Sometimes a letter talks about a shared day out or other experience, about what is going on in life andin the world. They are things that make me smile - not things I clutch to my heart or would rush to save in event of a house fire.
I would, personaly, be pissed that you had invaded my privacy, and I would think you were being a bit of a silly boy for being jealouse of memories of days long past that are just sat there undisturbed. If I loved you, I would forgive you because heart is dumb isnt it so no choice. I would probably invest in a foot locker with lock to keep private things in - or anything I wanted to - and if one day I came home andfound crow bar marks on it - you would regret the day you met me. Forgiveness has boundaries - you dont put up with a repeat offending wife beater - unless you are uncommonly low in yourself.