confused feelings for sister in law - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Anonymous Member · 11-28-2010, 08:17 AM

I have never posted here before but maybe you can help put my head back on straight. I have been married over 20 years and have been faithful. I have had a very close relationship with my wifes sister for 16 years. I have helped her thru abusive relationships ,helped her financially and have done a lot of things for her a husband would do (no sex) . Over the years I become very attached to her when she is out of a relationship and worry about what havoc the next relationship will bring. She moved away 2 years ago and recently moved back. Our relationship is now closer than ever. We spend hours together,do overnight business trips together-same room-no sex. We go out together and have a lot of fun.I realize this is a fantasy world.We have only discussed the fact we can't have sex because of my marriage and her sister but never discussed what would happen if I was single.Recently my daughter and wife have both told me I am getting too close to her and they are worried.Of couse,I assured them we are just friends. But we are more than just friends.We have become emotionally bonded to each other. We do flirt a lot.We talk about our private lifes and do not keep secrets from each other. I have not been sleeping due to guilt about this and decided to stop texting her.We do about 20 texts a day. This only worked for 23 hours and before I knew it she was cooking me breakfast this morning. My wife is a beautiful loving lady who would do anything for me. I am trying to only have a platonic relationship with her sister that does not involve the emotional side but I have not found the answer to that. I do believe this is termed an emotional affair and my wife deserves better. I am considering counceling but would like to resolve it on my own.I am normally the person others come to for advice and it seems ironic to be on the other side of the fence.

Craven Morehead · 11-28-2010, 08:48 AM

How do you turn this off? Unless both of you want to turn it off and both avoid contact, it won't happen. I doubt if it will burn out, will it? More likely there will come a weak moment and you'll cross the final barrier. I'd limit as much as possible all contact and travel together. And tell her before hand so she knows exactly what you've posted here. And reinsert yourself into your family. But that's easier said than done. Good luck.

jewels · 11-28-2010, 08:57 AM

I'm with Craven. I think the answer's crystal clear, even to you. Frankly, I'm surprised it's been tolerated this long. If you've invested so much in the relationship with her sister, one can only imagine what your wife has lost.

It may seem difficult to back off at this point, but if you think of it as investing in your marriage and giving to your wife the intimacy she's missed all these years. It sounds as though the intimacy was may have been meant in the light of helpfulness at first, but it's grown over the years, which likely means the loss of intimacy with your wife has been slow and painful.

Be thankful that she's stood by you all this time and fix it before it's too late. Let your sister-in-law find someone else for the intimacy she needs.

Redlemon · 11-28-2010, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anonymous Member

We spend hours together,do overnight business trips together-same room-no sex.

Wait, are you also co-workers with your SIL, or if not, why is she travelling with you on a business trip?

Anonymous Member · 11-28-2010, 11:14 AM

She works for me 3 or 4 days a month to help her finances. Some of my trips require two people. I try to get my wife to go but she has no interest in traveling at all.

SirLance · 11-28-2010, 03:39 PM

Since you are brave enough to examine yourself, ask yourself if you feel like you are having an affair. Does it? Your brief description sounds like one, even though there is no sex.

You should be careful. You can't avoid contact with your wife's sister, but I strongly recommend two courses of action: 1) Reduce contact to family functions only and necessary work interactions (traveling together is not a necessary interaction) and 2), get in front of a licensed marriage counselor and figure out why you think you are missing emotional intimacy in your marriage and seek it with your SIL.

AquaFox · 11-28-2010, 04:49 PM

I wouldn't stop talking to her cold turkey or anything like that.... if you are going to reduce the time you spend with her, let her know ahead of time and let her know what's up and why you are doing it... It's really cruel and not fair to soo without her knowing why... that goes double since it affects her income.

I really don't see anything wrong with what you are doing as long as you can make it so that it doesn't get in the way with you giving your wife / family all of the attention she desires and deserves.

Anonymous Member · 11-29-2010, 03:23 AM

Thanks for your advice so far! I slept better last night than I have in 2 months just knowing I am going to resolve this. In thinking about your comments,I really think my marriage has every aspect needed except some unexpected fun. I was always outgoing and my wife was not. When the kids were little,it was easy to justify staying home and trying to be the perfect parent.As the kids get older,our options free-up. I work side by side with my wife every day.We do work good together but I think if she worked less, our time at home would be more meaningful. I have suggested she works half days but she was offended that I suggested that-I even explained the reasons why. We are going away together the next two weekends but it was difficult to get her to agree to leave home. A month ago I proposed a wonderful trip I wanted to do next March for a week but she thought it would be too hard to plan for. I am doing the trip either with her or without her anyways just for some down time. Contrary to many relationships,our sex life is great. Always has been-sometimes too much for me! Opposite what you normally hear. So I really think we need to work on having spontaneous unexpected fun at times to keep our marriage exciting. These are the types of things I do with her sister.She fills that void for me and I fill it for her but the emotions that occur because of this are difficult to deal with. I really need to be doing the fun things with my wife and have her enjoy doing them.I don't want her to pretend she is having fun when she is not.Anyways,thanks again for responding and for caring. Have a great day.

Redlemon · 11-29-2010, 05:58 AM

Interesting, A-M. I think I'm much like your wife. I am perfectly fine staying at home, and I am an introvert. I like my home, it's quite comfortable, and I'm completely relaxed here. My wife is an extrovert, and if she stays at home too long, she feels claustrophobic; or, she can't just sit back, she always sees something else around the house that needs to be done.

I try to make an effort to plan things away from home to help relieve that stress for her, but I have to make a conscious effort to do so.

It might help you to understand your wife better if you read through the blog The Introvert's Corner | Psychology Today. Introverts aren't broken, we are self-contained.

Anonymous Member · 11-29-2010, 09:35 AM

I think you hit the nail on the head. We are living in two different worlds without realizing it. When I go places with her sister-who is an extrovert- we have a great time and meet a lot of new people.When I take my wife,she sits by herself and doens't converse unless she really knows someone. When we leave,she complains that I did not pay attention to her. I never understood why she would not converse with new people until now. I have been reading on the internet and educating myself on our differences. I just assumed she did not like to be social. Recognizing the problem certainly helps with a solution. Thank you for your post.

Redlemon · 11-29-2010, 12:52 PM

Rock on, dude! But one thing: being an introvert is not the problem. The problem is how introverts and extroverts mesh. Compromises can be reached, but don't try to "fix" her.

Anonymous Member · 11-29-2010, 01:14 PM

I wasn't going to try to change her but it helps me realize our different personalities so I can better understand hers. I will print some articles off for her so she can better understand my personality. If we can understand each other we will be better at fulfilling each others wants and needs.

Zeraph · 11-29-2010, 02:41 PM

Bang her, life is too short. If you're wife really loves you she will forgive you.

Anonymous Member · 11-29-2010, 05:40 PM

no,thats really not my motive-I get enough sex at home - unlike you, I would just like to have a good friendship with her, sex would screw up the whole deal- I would love to be unemotional friends and be able to foster that relationship. A friendship like that is worth more than al the sex in the world

amonkie · 11-29-2010, 05:44 PM

Emotional affairs are often times more damaging than physical ones, simply because the emotional investment and connection goes so much further than playing in the sheets.

As humans, there's only a finite amount of energy that we have to give. The only real answer is take the energy that you were devoting to your sis in law and drop it to that of someone else who you would consider a friend. Take that extra energy and put it into the areas you are realizing your wife and yourself have some growing to do.

That re-investment is simply a matter of shifting priorities. Your actions will speak louder than words to your wife, and I think actually putting effort into reaching a bridge you might find that you are satisfied. If you are not... then find ways to incorporate others, not just your sis in law, to have friends to fill that other void.

Anonymous Member · 11-29-2010, 05:53 PM

Thanks AMONKIE

curiousbear · 11-30-2010, 06:27 AM

I was about to write something similar to amonkie. In your case you are certainly deprived of something. You cant change your wife. Also you cant mess the relationships. If you think the closeness with your SIL might be risky, shift the attention. Sure your SIL will understand and that may help her to find alternatives as well.

The fact she is your SIL itself could be a reason for the closeness. In the beginning the trust and approachability must have paved way for a good start. Now it all can go totally upside down if taken lightly.

You sound very responsible. You will certainly cross this tough time. Good Luck.

You may also visit http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/tilted-...ister-law.html

Anonymous Member · 11-30-2010, 09:16 AM

I have certainly been thinking clearer since the day I originally posted.Actually slept two nights in a row.I have had some contact with her since then but have kept it strictly buisness and family matters. I changed my overnight trip tonight to just a very long day trip tomorrow. My sister in law is going with me so it will give us some time to talk. Eliminating the overnight part will help because it will be all business-no dinners,no drinks. Maybe it still is not a good idea but I want to see if I can do this and come back tomorrow night with my head as clear about this as it is now. If not,I will have to make adjustments. We will see.

Anonymous Member · 12-02-2010, 02:55 AM

I would like to thank everyone again for their advice. I did talk about this with my sister in law and I think we can keep our relationship at a lower level.On the plus side,she just started dating someone who seems like a really good guy. This will help both of us put our emotions where they should be directed-at our own relationships.The only problem is that her relationships are normally short term. I have to make sure that if this doesn't work out for her, I cannot be the shoulder for her to cry on anymore. That is the catalyst that gets us connected emotionally. Again thank you for your input.

Redlemon · 12-02-2010, 07:39 AM

Again, glad to hear it. Could you check in again in about a month or so? I'd love to hear how you and your wife work things out.

Jinn · 12-02-2010, 07:43 AM

Out of curiosity, if you've never posted here, why use Anonymous Member? Come up with a pseudonym that doesn't tie you (the person) to it, and post here more often.

Anonymous Member · 12-02-2010, 07:56 AM

I had never posted on a forum like this before and had a pseudonym that kind of tied me to my buisness so I posted anonymously.Maybe I will change it today.

amonkie · 12-02-2010, 08:52 AM

For name changes... please see myself or another admin via PM and we'll see what we can do

car guy · 01-17-2011, 03:14 AM

Redlemon-You wanted me to post how we were doing.Well,December was a long month. At first our contact was very limited outside of when she was working for me. Around the holidays,it went the other way. I spent half of Chrismas eve and half of Christmas day with her. We went out together New Years Eve for a while and were not model citizens. This made me really start to evaluate what I wanted for my future. Did I want stability or tormoil? I called her the next day and told her I believe we both need to start living our lives with more integrity and have more respect for my wife and her boyfriend.
My wife has been very supportive thru all this.Its hard for me to understand why I would feel the need to spend time with another women when I have a great one at home. My wife and I on a trip in December and had probably one of the best weekends we have had in 20 some years. She also suprised me by doing a bodoir photo shoot. (by the way-what a confidence builder for women). My wifes confidence and self esteem grew leaps and bounds and was so happy she did it.
In a nutshell, since New Years,I have been on the right path.Every day when I get up I focus on my wife.I also read an article I found on the web almost every day. It is called "but if we started dating it would ruin our friendship" (satire). It is not completely relevant but the first time I read it I had to laugh because 80% of it described my sister in law and myself to a T.My sister is law starting down a path again that will cause her emotional turmoil with her current relationship but I have vowed not to be there to pick up the pieces. No more bailing her out financially. I am going to try to put 110% back into my marriage. If I see myself failing in this,I will go to counseling because I do not want to lose my wife or family.

Redlemon · 01-17-2011, 08:27 AM

Wait, so... on both Christmas and New Year's, you told your wife you were going out with her sister? Or, you just left without saying anything?

TheCrimsonGhost · 01-17-2011, 09:05 AM

If you want to stick with your wife and daughter, then I would be honest and up front about what has gone on, tell them everything you told us. And then let them help you to cut off the relationship from here on out, let them be your emotional support, you and your family can get past this.

car guy · 01-17-2011, 02:26 PM

Christmas she knew I was leaving with her sister.New Years Eve,I just left without her knowing. She is smart.She knew where I went. I realize I am an idiot for this.I take no offense if someone calls me one. My wife was not outwardly upset when I returned home.She should have reamed my butt out.My sister in law's boyfriend was unhappy as he had been waiting for her. On New Years day I let my sister in law know that we absolutely have to stop. Even small social activities do not work for us as we always gravitate to each other. I have no intention of destroying my marriage and am fortunate that my wife has been more than loyal.

Cimarron29414 · 01-17-2011, 02:47 PM

Wait. There's something I don't understand. Did you mess around with the sister on New Years?

car guy · 01-17-2011, 03:21 PM

No. We have never had romantic contact.We went out to a bar and got pretty intoxicated. Like idiots-drove back home.

zenda · 01-17-2011, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by car guy

.My sister is law starting down a path again that will cause her emotional turmoil with her current relationship but I have vowed not to be there to pick up the pieces. No more bailing her out financially. I am going to try to put 110% back into my marriage. If I see myself failing in this, I will go to counselling because I do not want to lose my wife or family.

Hi

First off ... respect to you for working away to do right.

Secondly, there is no need to wait until you see yourself failing before you see a counsellor. A counselling relationship can often be very productive if started at the stage you are at, rather than being thought of as a safety net 'IF you fall'.

From your last post, I see you've had a habit of being her shoulder to cry on, and also to financially bail her out. You are wanting to have more choice in that area. You will be fighting well worn habits, concerning a woman who has personality traits which your wife lacks, and which you like.

Imagine telling this to a counsellor now, so that that counsellor's first job with you is to assist you to face that challenge in a manner which respects all of you.

You will get two guaranteed outcomes:
1: You will have more choices because you and the counsellor will have examined the situation, what you want, and how to achieve it, in addition to assisting you as you explore further in your understandings of your family.

2: You will have tested the effectiveness of the counsellor whilst you are feeling resourceful, rather than phoning some stranger when 'things go bad'.

car guy · 01-20-2011, 03:36 AM

Thanks Zenda.You made a very good point about seeing a counsellor now.I always thought of it as a last resort instead of getting a head start on this situation. I will admit-it will be a difficult thing for me to do but I have started to look up some names of counsellors.

One thing that has been mentioned in these posts is the fact that my sister in law must have personality traits that I must fill a void for me.Other than being out going and spontaneous,she doesn't hold a candle to my wife.I have even compared them on paper to try to make sense of this.My wife has all the traits most men would want in a wife. Loving.devoted,wonderful cook,great mother,very attractive,loves sex and loves to spend time with her husband. My sister in law is almost the opposite. Really doesn't make sense on paper but I guess not everything in life makes sense.

Anyway,thanks again for for comments.

zenda · 01-20-2011, 06:25 AM

Car Guy

Hi ... You're going for a solution which will respect your family, you and your sister in law. By your actions now, you are DIMINISHING the probability of any Last Resorts, or panicky anguishes.

You say "I will admit-it will be a difficult thing for me to do but I have started to look up some names of counsellors." Yup. It IS kind of easier when everything's falling round your ears and everyone around you is upset - there's that I'M DROWNING feeling - makes it far easier to shout for help. However, what you're doing is choosing the Difficult Path of pre-emptively striking the problem, in ways which make more likely a far less difficult future. I totally applaud that you are taking this step at this point ... and in acknowledging that you're finding it a difficult thing to do, and yet you're doing it anyway ... well ... swelp me! You're demonstrating here and you that you're the kind of guy who can and WILL do difficult things .... whatever it takes to get this sorted. Your wife sounds like a great person and so does her sister. Heck ... you've got a lovely family and are going to do right by all of them.

You're looking up some names. Hokay. If you're able to talk about specific counsellors with any of your friends who might have been to one, that would be good. I'm not talking about "Oh Car-Guy ... my therapist is Sooo good ... I've been seeing him/her three times a week for the last 6 years .... he/she's Sooo supportive, and is evening finding time to fit me in for a fourth sessions per week." ... noooooo not that. Such therapists do exist and are NOT the ones for you.

The ideal reference is something like "I saw them for a few months and am now feeling more like I know what I want to do and how to do it. Initial sessions were twice a week for a couple of weeks, but rapidly went down to once a week and then once every two weeks. After three months, we agreed that I should see how things go and make an appointment in three months time for feedback and debriefing, though I was free to call to ask questions if need be." Also "The therapist and I discussed what I wanted to achieve, What EVIDENCE would count as success at different stages ... evidence which early as possible would let me know a: what progress meant, and b: the extent to which I was progressing." This is important, so you know whether to go back for a second session.

Those are minimum requirements. Now ... my personal insistence takes it further than some therapists would be comfortable with: the therapist should be willing to sort that out in the first phone call, or, during an arranged phone call or meeting BEFORE money changes hands. My view is that YOU are interviewing a future employee, and they have to have ways of satisfying you that they can do the specific job you will be paying them for. The kind of counsellor I reckon you need is one who is hungry to enable you to identify and solve problems, and whose keenest intent is that you should find your 'best thinking' and your 'strongest feeling' so YOU may make YOUR best decisions, and have the clarity and discipline to follow those decisions AT THE SAME TIME AS being very sensitive to feedback ... ie what specific effect it has on each person concerned - including you.

My bottom line to this post is this "How to choose a counsellor" is an important skill. I've given you my one person's perspective. However, if you, as thread starter are OK with this ... how's about other posters share their views on what considerations are important when choosing a counsellor? For you are already beginning to look at names, and I want you to be fully resourced when you pick up that phone to give a few of them an interview prior to choosing one or two to try out.

Respect and best wishes to you

car guy · 01-20-2011, 02:50 PM

Its fine with me if someone has tips about choosing a counsellor.The more knowledge I have,the more informed I will be.

raging moderate · 01-29-2011, 11:31 PM

it is somewhat of a crap shoot. Insurance coverage comes into the picture. reading up on them online is an obvious but excellent place to start. make one (1) appointment with a few different counselors and don't choose one until you find one you feel comfortable enough with to share your emotions. If it doesn't seem like it's going to be a good fit, move on b/c odds are there is a good one out there for you.

zenda · 01-31-2011, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by car guy

I am not sure which forum to post in but I think this one is correct. This thread was written in response to one I had posted in another forum.This is the route I chose regarding a counselor.It would be hard to find a counselor and sneak away from my business for appointments without my wife finding out.I decided to come completely clean with her regarding my needs and wants in marriage and how her sister fills the empty spots.At first she thought I planned to leave her but I reassured her I had no intention of that.I only want both of us to live happy fullfilled lives.She seemed genuinely suprised that we had a problem.I explained to her that I was suprised she was oblivious to the problem(although she was uncomfortable with the relationship I have with her sister).I haven't been sleeping at night,lost 20 lbs. in 2 months(have never been overweight to begin with) and spend waaaaay too much time with her sister.I also told her that our marriage of 22 years has become stagnent.We are so busy that we never concentrate on our relationship and I had no intention of spending the rest of my life this way.She was very receptive and wants to make it better.I talked to her about couples counceling or individual counceling.Both of us will do either if we have too.In the interim,I bought some relationship books that we are both reading.I have finished two of them.My perspective is completely different now.Our communication is much better.She has just started to read the books.I will see how we do,continue to look for a councelor to help us and I am very relieved that she now knows exactly how I feel.I did not want to do counceling without her knowledge.I hope this is a proper path to take as I have never been in this position before.

Hi Car Guy

You were correct to post it in the other thread. Something, however, occurred to me which was relevant for this thread only.

So far, this is about how you and your wife can get along. Yup .. you'll do right by her sister, but she's still on the outside.

There may well be an important factor to be examined in the relationship between your wife and her sister ... one which YOU, in your pull between BOTH and EACH of them, did bring to light.

It's well known that different members of a family take on different emotional roles "Oh Debbie's the bright one, Alex's the sporty one, Dirk's the musical one, Jenny's the sweet one, little Tommy's the Difficult One, Daddy's the muscle and mommy's the Brains OF THE FAMILY"

These roles are sometimes not put into words ... the distribution can happen, sometimes randomly, sometimes according to family 'needs' .... eg a Mom and Dad who are potentially losing skills in functioning team sometimes 'NEED' the 'difficult Child' in order to give them something to 'work together' about. Heaven help them if the child starts developing h/er own sense of self and clarity! That's just one example.

I'm putting to you the hypothesis that it ain't just about your personal preferences, but ALSO that each sister is probably manifesting some of the very traits the other sister lacks - traits which the other sister might even Need ... and that three way therapy or problem solving might be a good idea. Alternatively .. you and your wife work as a couple on your relationship, and your wife and her sister work as a sibling couple on THEIR identities and relationship. This latter option, I prefer. Three- way would tend to mess up some of the boundaries you are seeking to clarify and maintain.

Mind you ... check and double check this hypothesis. Might be on the money, but might be a red herring. Got to double check.

All the best

car guy · 01-31-2011, 03:08 PM

There is some tension between my wife and her sister.My wife is the responsible one-her sister is the irresponsible one.My wife is reserved and her sister is not.Over the last sixteen years I have given a lot of time,energy and emotion to her sister and this has taken away from my family and kids. Her sister has been thru very bad relationships,been the victum of domestic violence and thru her poor choices has been used and abused by almost every man she has known except for me.I have been her stability for all these years.I have been able to get her into counceling three different times but she stops because of the emotional pain it causes her.I have always been willing to pay for her counceling sessions so money is never an issue.My wife-she is correct on this-is uncomfortable with the personal conversations her sister and I have.I know when she has sex,I know her medical history,I know what medications she is on,I know when she has her period,I even know the first time she swallowed.I know her better than anyone does.It does seem strange that we are comfortable having these conversations.Because of this,it is hard for me not to become emotionally attached.I do not think I can get her into counceling.At some point she will have to or her life will never change.You are also correct when you said that both of them have traits that I like but I also realize you can't combine two women into one.Its kind of like enjoying eggs and bacon but the doctor says if you keep eating them,you will have a heart attack.You have to pick the best choice so you can enjoy life-even if it means not eating eggs and bacon ever again. I have had some contact with her sister but have kept it at a very low level.She has also.She does not want to hurt my wife and is starting to understand the problems this has caused.I believe in the end,my wife and I will have a better relationship than ever because of this.

11-28-2010, 08:17 AM	#1 (permalink)
Anonymous Member Addict	confused feelings for sister in law I have never posted here before but maybe you can help put my head back on straight. I have been married over 20 years and have been faithful. I have had a very close relationship with my wifes sister for 16 years. I have helped her thru abusive relationships ,helped her financially and have done a lot of things for her a husband would do (no sex) . Over the years I become very attached to her when she is out of a relationship and worry about what havoc the next relationship will bring. She moved away 2 years ago and recently moved back. Our relationship is now closer than ever. We spend hours together,do overnight business trips together-same room-no sex. We go out together and have a lot of fun.I realize this is a fantasy world.We have only discussed the fact we can't have sex because of my marriage and her sister but never discussed what would happen if I was single.Recently my daughter and wife have both told me I am getting too close to her and they are worried.Of couse,I assured them we are just friends. But we are more than just friends.We have become emotionally bonded to each other. We do flirt a lot.We talk about our private lifes and do not keep secrets from each other. I have not been sleeping due to guilt about this and decided to stop texting her.We do about 20 texts a day. This only worked for 23 hours and before I knew it she was cooking me breakfast this morning. My wife is a beautiful loving lady who would do anything for me. I am trying to only have a platonic relationship with her sister that does not involve the emotional side but I have not found the answer to that. I do believe this is termed an emotional affair and my wife deserves better. I am considering counceling but would like to resolve it on my own.I am normally the person others come to for advice and it seems ironic to be on the other side of the fence.

11-28-2010, 08:57 AM	#3 (permalink)
jewels Eponymous Location: Central Central Florida	I'm with Craven. I think the answer's crystal clear, even to you. Frankly, I'm surprised it's been tolerated this long. If you've invested so much in the relationship with her sister, one can only imagine what your wife has lost. It may seem difficult to back off at this point, but if you think of it as investing in your marriage and giving to your wife the intimacy she's missed all these years. It sounds as though the intimacy was may have been meant in the light of helpfulness at first, but it's grown over the years, which likely means the loss of intimacy with your wife has been slow and painful. Be thankful that she's stood by you all this time and fix it before it's too late. Let your sister-in-law find someone else for the intimacy she needs. __________________ We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess. Mark Twain

11-28-2010, 03:39 PM	#6 (permalink)
SirLance Junkie Location: In the middle of the desert.	Since you are brave enough to examine yourself, ask yourself if you feel like you are having an affair. Does it? Your brief description sounds like one, even though there is no sex. You should be careful. You can't avoid contact with your wife's sister, but I strongly recommend two courses of action: 1) Reduce contact to family functions only and necessary work interactions (traveling together is not a necessary interaction) and 2), get in front of a licensed marriage counselor and figure out why you think you are missing emotional intimacy in your marriage and seek it with your SIL. __________________ DEMOCRACY is where your vote counts, FEUDALISM is where your count votes.

11-28-2010, 04:49 PM	#7 (permalink)
AquaFox WaterDog	I wouldn't stop talking to her cold turkey or anything like that.... if you are going to reduce the time you spend with her, let her know ahead of time and let her know what's up and why you are doing it... It's really cruel and not fair to soo without her knowing why... that goes double since it affects her income. I really don't see anything wrong with what you are doing as long as you can make it so that it doesn't get in the way with you giving your wife / family all of the attention she desires and deserves. __________________ ...AquaFox...

11-29-2010, 05:58 AM	#9 (permalink)
Redlemon Devoted Donor Location: New England	Interesting, A-M. I think I'm much like your wife. I am perfectly fine staying at home, and I am an introvert. I like my home, it's quite comfortable, and I'm completely relaxed here. My wife is an extrovert, and if she stays at home too long, she feels claustrophobic; or, she can't just sit back, she always sees something else around the house that needs to be done. I try to make an effort to plan things away from home to help relieve that stress for her, but I have to make a conscious effort to do so. It might help you to understand your wife better if you read through the blog The Introvert's Corner \| Psychology Today. Introverts aren't broken, we are self-contained. __________________ I can't read your signature. Sorry.

11-28-2010, 08:48 AM	#2 (permalink)
Craven Morehead Custom User Title	How do you turn this off? Unless both of you want to turn it off and both avoid contact, it won't happen. I doubt if it will burn out, will it? More likely there will come a weak moment and you'll cross the final barrier. I'd limit as much as possible all contact and travel together. And tell her before hand so she knows exactly what you've posted here. And reinsert yourself into your family. But that's easier said than done. Good luck.

11-28-2010, 11:14 AM	#5 (permalink)
Anonymous Member Addict	She works for me 3 or 4 days a month to help her finances. Some of my trips require two people. I try to get my wife to go but she has no interest in traveling at all.

11-29-2010, 03:23 AM	#8 (permalink)
Anonymous Member Addict	Thanks for your advice so far! I slept better last night than I have in 2 months just knowing I am going to resolve this. In thinking about your comments,I really think my marriage has every aspect needed except some unexpected fun. I was always outgoing and my wife was not. When the kids were little,it was easy to justify staying home and trying to be the perfect parent.As the kids get older,our options free-up. I work side by side with my wife every day.We do work good together but I think if she worked less, our time at home would be more meaningful. I have suggested she works half days but she was offended that I suggested that-I even explained the reasons why. We are going away together the next two weekends but it was difficult to get her to agree to leave home. A month ago I proposed a wonderful trip I wanted to do next March for a week but she thought it would be too hard to plan for. I am doing the trip either with her or without her anyways just for some down time. Contrary to many relationships,our sex life is great. Always has been-sometimes too much for me! Opposite what you normally hear. So I really think we need to work on having spontaneous unexpected fun at times to keep our marriage exciting. These are the types of things I do with her sister.She fills that void for me and I fill it for her but the emotions that occur because of this are difficult to deal with. I really need to be doing the fun things with my wife and have her enjoy doing them.I don't want her to pretend she is having fun when she is not.Anyways,thanks again for responding and for caring. Have a great day.

11-29-2010, 09:35 AM	#10 (permalink)
Anonymous Member Addict	I think you hit the nail on the head. We are living in two different worlds without realizing it. When I go places with her sister-who is an extrovert- we have a great time and meet a lot of new people.When I take my wife,she sits by herself and doens't converse unless she really knows someone. When we leave,she complains that I did not pay attention to her. I never understood why she would not converse with new people until now. I have been reading on the internet and educating myself on our differences. I just assumed she did not like to be social. Recognizing the problem certainly helps with a solution. Thank you for your post.

11-29-2010, 12:52 PM	#11 (permalink)
Redlemon Devoted Donor Location: New England	Rock on, dude! But one thing: being an introvert is not the problem. The problem is how introverts and extroverts mesh. Compromises can be reached, but don't try to "fix" her. __________________ I can't read your signature. Sorry.

11-29-2010, 01:14 PM	#12 (permalink)
Anonymous Member Addict	I wasn't going to try to change her but it helps me realize our different personalities so I can better understand hers. I will print some articles off for her so she can better understand my personality. If we can understand each other we will be better at fulfilling each others wants and needs.

11-29-2010, 02:41 PM	#13 (permalink)
Zeraph Banned Location: The Cosmos	Bang her, life is too short. If you're wife really loves you she will forgive you.

11-29-2010, 05:40 PM	#14 (permalink)
Anonymous Member Addict	no,thats really not my motive-I get enough sex at home - unlike you, I would just like to have a good friendship with her, sex would screw up the whole deal- I would love to be unemotional friends and be able to foster that relationship. A friendship like that is worth more than al the sex in the world

11-29-2010, 05:44 PM	#15 (permalink)
amonkie Drifting Administrator Location: Windy City	Emotional affairs are often times more damaging than physical ones, simply because the emotional investment and connection goes so much further than playing in the sheets. As humans, there's only a finite amount of energy that we have to give. The only real answer is take the energy that you were devoting to your sis in law and drop it to that of someone else who you would consider a friend. Take that extra energy and put it into the areas you are realizing your wife and yourself have some growing to do. That re-investment is simply a matter of shifting priorities. Your actions will speak louder than words to your wife, and I think actually putting effort into reaching a bridge you might find that you are satisfied. If you are not... then find ways to incorporate others, not just your sis in law, to have friends to fill that other void. __________________ Calling from deep in the heart, from where the eyes can't see and the ears can't hear, from where the mountain trails end and only love can go... ~~~ Three Rivers Hare Krishna

11-29-2010, 05:53 PM	#16 (permalink)
Anonymous Member Addict	Thanks AMONKIE

01-17-2011, 02:47 PM	#28 (permalink)
Cimarron29414 Still Free Location: comfortably perched at the top of the bell curve!	Wait. There's something I don't understand. Did you mess around with the sister on New Years? __________________ Gives a man a halo, does mead. "Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

11-30-2010, 06:27 AM	#17 (permalink)
curiousbear Addict Location: WA	I was about to write something similar to amonkie. In your case you are certainly deprived of something. You cant change your wife. Also you cant mess the relationships. If you think the closeness with your SIL might be risky, shift the attention. Sure your SIL will understand and that may help her to find alternatives as well. The fact she is your SIL itself could be a reason for the closeness. In the beginning the trust and approachability must have paved way for a good start. Now it all can go totally upside down if taken lightly. You sound very responsible. You will certainly cross this tough time. Good Luck. You may also visit http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/tilted-...ister-law.html

11-30-2010, 09:16 AM	#18 (permalink)
Anonymous Member Addict	I have certainly been thinking clearer since the day I originally posted.Actually slept two nights in a row.I have had some contact with her since then but have kept it strictly buisness and family matters. I changed my overnight trip tonight to just a very long day trip tomorrow. My sister in law is going with me so it will give us some time to talk. Eliminating the overnight part will help because it will be all business-no dinners,no drinks. Maybe it still is not a good idea but I want to see if I can do this and come back tomorrow night with my head as clear about this as it is now. If not,I will have to make adjustments. We will see.

12-02-2010, 02:55 AM	#19 (permalink)
Anonymous Member Addict	I would like to thank everyone again for their advice. I did talk about this with my sister in law and I think we can keep our relationship at a lower level.On the plus side,she just started dating someone who seems like a really good guy. This will help both of us put our emotions where they should be directed-at our own relationships.The only problem is that her relationships are normally short term. I have to make sure that if this doesn't work out for her, I cannot be the shoulder for her to cry on anymore. That is the catalyst that gets us connected emotionally. Again thank you for your input.

12-02-2010, 07:39 AM	#20 (permalink)
Redlemon Devoted Donor Location: New England	Again, glad to hear it. Could you check in again in about a month or so? I'd love to hear how you and your wife work things out. __________________ I can't read your signature. Sorry.

12-02-2010, 07:43 AM	#21 (permalink)
Jinn Lover - Protector - Teacher Location: Seattle, WA	Out of curiosity, if you've never posted here, why use Anonymous Member? Come up with a pseudonym that doesn't tie you (the person) to it, and post here more often. __________________ "I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

12-02-2010, 07:56 AM	#22 (permalink)
Anonymous Member Addict	I had never posted on a forum like this before and had a pseudonym that kind of tied me to my buisness so I posted anonymously.Maybe I will change it today.

12-02-2010, 08:52 AM	#23 (permalink)
amonkie Drifting Administrator Location: Windy City	For name changes... please see myself or another admin via PM and we'll see what we can do __________________ Calling from deep in the heart, from where the eyes can't see and the ears can't hear, from where the mountain trails end and only love can go... ~~~ Three Rivers Hare Krishna

01-17-2011, 03:14 AM	#24 (permalink)
car guy Upright	Redlemon-You wanted me to post how we were doing.Well,December was a long month. At first our contact was very limited outside of when she was working for me. Around the holidays,it went the other way. I spent half of Chrismas eve and half of Christmas day with her. We went out together New Years Eve for a while and were not model citizens. This made me really start to evaluate what I wanted for my future. Did I want stability or tormoil? I called her the next day and told her I believe we both need to start living our lives with more integrity and have more respect for my wife and her boyfriend. My wife has been very supportive thru all this.Its hard for me to understand why I would feel the need to spend time with another women when I have a great one at home. My wife and I on a trip in December and had probably one of the best weekends we have had in 20 some years. She also suprised me by doing a bodoir photo shoot. (by the way-what a confidence builder for women). My wifes confidence and self esteem grew leaps and bounds and was so happy she did it. In a nutshell, since New Years,I have been on the right path.Every day when I get up I focus on my wife.I also read an article I found on the web almost every day. It is called "but if we started dating it would ruin our friendship" (satire). It is not completely relevant but the first time I read it I had to laugh because 80% of it described my sister in law and myself to a T.My sister is law starting down a path again that will cause her emotional turmoil with her current relationship but I have vowed not to be there to pick up the pieces. No more bailing her out financially. I am going to try to put 110% back into my marriage. If I see myself failing in this,I will go to counseling because I do not want to lose my wife or family.

01-17-2011, 08:27 AM	#25 (permalink)
Redlemon Devoted Donor Location: New England	Wait, so... on both Christmas and New Year's, you told your wife you were going out with her sister? Or, you just left without saying anything? __________________ I can't read your signature. Sorry.

01-17-2011, 09:05 AM	#26 (permalink)
TheCrimsonGhost Upright Location: Los Angeles, CA	If you want to stick with your wife and daughter, then I would be honest and up front about what has gone on, tell them everything you told us. And then let them help you to cut off the relationship from here on out, let them be your emotional support, you and your family can get past this.

01-17-2011, 02:26 PM	#27 (permalink)
car guy Upright	Christmas she knew I was leaving with her sister.New Years Eve,I just left without her knowing. She is smart.She knew where I went. I realize I am an idiot for this.I take no offense if someone calls me one. My wife was not outwardly upset when I returned home.She should have reamed my butt out.My sister in law's boyfriend was unhappy as he had been waiting for her. On New Years day I let my sister in law know that we absolutely have to stop. Even small social activities do not work for us as we always gravitate to each other. I have no intention of destroying my marriage and am fortunate that my wife has been more than loyal.

01-17-2011, 03:21 PM	#29 (permalink)
car guy Upright	No. We have never had romantic contact.We went out to a bar and got pretty intoxicated. Like idiots-drove back home.

01-20-2011, 03:36 AM	#31 (permalink)
car guy Upright	Thanks Zenda.You made a very good point about seeing a counsellor now.I always thought of it as a last resort instead of getting a head start on this situation. I will admit-it will be a difficult thing for me to do but I have started to look up some names of counsellors. One thing that has been mentioned in these posts is the fact that my sister in law must have personality traits that I must fill a void for me.Other than being out going and spontaneous,she doesn't hold a candle to my wife.I have even compared them on paper to try to make sense of this.My wife has all the traits most men would want in a wife. Loving.devoted,wonderful cook,great mother,very attractive,loves sex and loves to spend time with her husband. My sister in law is almost the opposite. Really doesn't make sense on paper but I guess not everything in life makes sense. Anyway,thanks again for for comments.

01-20-2011, 06:25 AM	#32 (permalink)
zenda Crazy Location: London, England	Car Guy Hi ... You're going for a solution which will respect your family, you and your sister in law. By your actions now, you are DIMINISHING the probability of any Last Resorts, or panicky anguishes. You say "I will admit-it will be a difficult thing for me to do but I have started to look up some names of counsellors." Yup. It IS kind of easier when everything's falling round your ears and everyone around you is upset - there's that I'M DROWNING feeling - makes it far easier to shout for help. However, what you're doing is choosing the Difficult Path of pre-emptively striking the problem, in ways which make more likely a far less difficult future. I totally applaud that you are taking this step at this point ... and in acknowledging that you're finding it a difficult thing to do, and yet you're doing it anyway ... well ... swelp me! You're demonstrating here and you that you're the kind of guy who can and WILL do difficult things .... whatever it takes to get this sorted. Your wife sounds like a great person and so does her sister. Heck ... you've got a lovely family and are going to do right by all of them. You're looking up some names. Hokay. If you're able to talk about specific counsellors with any of your friends who might have been to one, that would be good. I'm not talking about "Oh Car-Guy ... my therapist is Sooo good ... I've been seeing him/her three times a week for the last 6 years .... he/she's Sooo supportive, and is evening finding time to fit me in for a fourth sessions per week." ... noooooo not that. Such therapists do exist and are NOT the ones for you. The ideal reference is something like "I saw them for a few months and am now feeling more like I know what I want to do and how to do it. Initial sessions were twice a week for a couple of weeks, but rapidly went down to once a week and then once every two weeks. After three months, we agreed that I should see how things go and make an appointment in three months time for feedback and debriefing, though I was free to call to ask questions if need be." Also "The therapist and I discussed what I wanted to achieve, What EVIDENCE would count as success at different stages ... evidence which early as possible would let me know a: what progress meant, and b: the extent to which I was progressing." This is important, so you know whether to go back for a second session. Those are minimum requirements. Now ... my personal insistence takes it further than some therapists would be comfortable with: the therapist should be willing to sort that out in the first phone call, or, during an arranged phone call or meeting BEFORE money changes hands. My view is that YOU are interviewing a future employee, and they have to have ways of satisfying you that they can do the specific job you will be paying them for. The kind of counsellor I reckon you need is one who is hungry to enable you to identify and solve problems, and whose keenest intent is that you should find your 'best thinking' and your 'strongest feeling' so YOU may make YOUR best decisions, and have the clarity and discipline to follow those decisions AT THE SAME TIME AS being very sensitive to feedback ... ie what specific effect it has on each person concerned - including you. My bottom line to this post is this "How to choose a counsellor" is an important skill. I've given you my one person's perspective. However, if you, as thread starter are OK with this ... how's about other posters share their views on what considerations are important when choosing a counsellor? For you are already beginning to look at names, and I want you to be fully resourced when you pick up that phone to give a few of them an interview prior to choosing one or two to try out. Respect and best wishes to you __________________ ZENDA

01-20-2011, 02:50 PM	#33 (permalink)
car guy Upright	Its fine with me if someone has tips about choosing a counsellor.The more knowledge I have,the more informed I will be.

01-29-2011, 11:31 PM	#34 (permalink)
raging moderate Insane Location: Whatever house my keys can get me into	it is somewhat of a crap shoot. Insurance coverage comes into the picture. reading up on them online is an obvious but excellent place to start. make one (1) appointment with a few different counselors and don't choose one until you find one you feel comfortable enough with to share your emotions. If it doesn't seem like it's going to be a good fit, move on b/c odds are there is a good one out there for you. __________________ These are the good old days... formerly Murp0434

01-31-2011, 03:08 PM	#36 (permalink)
car guy Upright	There is some tension between my wife and her sister.My wife is the responsible one-her sister is the irresponsible one.My wife is reserved and her sister is not.Over the last sixteen years I have given a lot of time,energy and emotion to her sister and this has taken away from my family and kids. Her sister has been thru very bad relationships,been the victum of domestic violence and thru her poor choices has been used and abused by almost every man she has known except for me.I have been her stability for all these years.I have been able to get her into counceling three different times but she stops because of the emotional pain it causes her.I have always been willing to pay for her counceling sessions so money is never an issue.My wife-she is correct on this-is uncomfortable with the personal conversations her sister and I have.I know when she has sex,I know her medical history,I know what medications she is on,I know when she has her period,I even know the first time she swallowed.I know her better than anyone does.It does seem strange that we are comfortable having these conversations.Because of this,it is hard for me not to become emotionally attached.I do not think I can get her into counceling.At some point she will have to or her life will never change.You are also correct when you said that both of them have traits that I like but I also realize you can't combine two women into one.Its kind of like enjoying eggs and bacon but the doctor says if you keep eating them,you will have a heart attack.You have to pick the best choice so you can enjoy life-even if it means not eating eggs and bacon ever again. I have had some contact with her sister but have kept it at a very low level.She has also.She does not want to hurt my wife and is starting to understand the problems this has caused.I believe in the end,my wife and I will have a better relationship than ever because of this.