ASU2003

It will be a long, long time before I ever have kids/teenagers, but I would like your opinion on what you would do in this situation.

Let's go back 11 years to Dec. 1994. I get on the Internet at age 14/15. I am far more competent with computers than my parents or friends. Within a week, I had found internet porn. Now, this is really softcore stuff, just like what is in Playboy maybe Hustler. I became obsessed let's say, it became an addiction at age 21-23. But at the time, my parents either didn't have a clue or didn't care that I was using the computer at night for 3-4 hours at a time after they went to sleep at 11pm. Even if they had found evidence, I'm not sure they would have brought it up. (I'm still waiting for the birds & bees talk). And installing blocking software would have been useless, since I could swap hard drives. And, while I am down to only 4 hours a week now, I was lucky I passed some of my classes in college because I would rather d/l adult movies instead of doing homework.

So, how would you talk to your teenage boy about porn, and not come off as controlling parents? Are there any creative approaches besides take away the computer? Would you take the side of "Never bring this up because he might be very embarrassed."? Would you buy him a subscription to Playboy and allow him to be open about it, but can monitor the time on the PC? Or would you sit down next to him and watch it, and scar him for life?

edit: If they ever asked, I could say I was researching something for school or downloading mp3s (after 1998). I could also say I was working on fixing the computer.

Sage

I would say the best thing you could do for your potential son/daughter would be go to a thearapist and figure out why porn had/has such a huge impact in your life. Once you know why you turned to porn at the expense of other activities in your life, you can have a mature, honest conversation with your child. However, if you never deal with how porn affected your life growing up, then your approach to porn in your child's life will be askew.

Porn is a great thing- so's ice cream. There's a time and a place for each, and too much of either can be a bad thing.

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jth

I think it would be important to explain the difference between porn and the real world. People growing up on porn might have pre-concieved conceptions of what sex really is, and that is I believe one of the major issues about pornography is it does not really depict sex in a realistic light. Not every woman has that body, breasts, hair or flexible. Not every man has.... equipment such as that. Not every woman likes <insert strange sexual position or other sexual favor> so on and so forth.

However I would venture to guess my reaction to my teenage boy watching pornography would be along the lines of wanting to be careful about the situation. Sitting him down and explaining the rights and wrongs about women, how to treat them and what sex really is. I would not like my kids surfing porn when they are minors only because you never know what they might run across in terms illegal content and would rather they get something that at least is not something that will come back to haunt them. I wouldn't be opposed to giving them a playboy mag. In the end, Boys will be boys and it's natural to be curious about the female body and there's nothing they can do about it unless they have exceptional will power.

As you said, there is no way to keep your boy from it. Either they will be using computers their entire lives and learned how to trick their old man and hide their sex vids on the computer, or they'll have a friend who will help them. Teenage boys, unless they are raised in a very conservative lifestyle will look at porn in some form or the other. Education is the best tool that Parents have period, and that's what you need to use to keep your kid morally in line as it pertains to looking at naked women.

waltert

even people in conservative backgrounds do it, they're just better at hiding it.

I was in quite the same situation as you at around age 13-18 at first my mother **could** catch me, but I got better at concealing it, and I got my own pc, which lead to quite a bit of borwsing and downloading. I think the most I ever had was about 12 gigs of porn (pictures, videos). in addition to a few DVDs and magazines that I had managed to aquire

Then when I was 18, I got a girlfriend, and after we started having sex, I ditched all of the computer stuff, along with most of my magazines and DVDs (not by any request from her, on my own accord)

I think it would be good for you to have some clean "dirty magazines" like playboy that he could look at. I can definetely see that in retrospect, porn warped my perception of sex...

if you wanted to be bold, you could just come right out and talk to him about your experience...dont do rash things like take away the pc, etc.

TexanAvenger

If this hypothetical son/daughter of yours is looking at porn, the best tool you can bring to the table is open-mindedness. Shock will be big, I'm sure, but don't let that impair your judgement. You looked at it early too, don't just punish them for it.

I first got in trouble with my father for looking at porn on the internet when I was probably around 13-14. He got upset, took away my computer, brought my mom into it and told me it was wrong. Thing is, I only found out about internet porn after having found a piece of paper on which he had written his names and passwords to various sites.

Don't be hypocritical. Talk to them. Sexuality is a major driving force in life, and if you make your kids hide it, chances are they'll twist and warp it within themselves.

maleficent

I seem to be on this rant lately.. so i'll keep it going here... There's nothing wrong with porn as long as it's not the only thing in the person's life.. I think age 13 is a little young for it, but I'm a old fuddy duddy...

The conversation that I think would need to be had with a teenage boy, and even a teenage girl as well.. The models in porn are airbrushed and while most are very attractive, they have lighting people, and airbrushers, and make up and hair people to help them look better than they do... Some people I've seen (and it honestly seems to be thoser that had instant access to porn, and not just swiping their dad's playboys) have a skewed view of what females should look like...

As long as it's all kept in perspective...

Though dad sitting down with the kid and perusing porn together- well that's just a little --ummm-- ewww...

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Charlatan

I have started to talk to my son about it. He is 11 and on the Internet. For now, all his time spent on line is at the dining room table in my clear line of sight.

He is still at the phase where girls are icky but he is about to make the leap to the opposite. It could happen any day.

Part of the conversation is as Mal suggests above, talk about what porn is and how it differs from reality. I will also (as icky as it is) talk about fantasizing and masturbation (we had the birds and bees talk long ago, as well as the condom talk -- though I will likely go over this again).

The best thing to do is provide a solid example of how to treat the opposite sex. I do this everyday. Teaching him respect for others and especially to your family and those you love. It may sound corny but there is no better way to teach how to respect others than to model it for someone.

On top of this, his mother also reinforces a lot of this in her chats with him... after all it's both of us raising the guy, not just me.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Leto

My 16 year old has been visiting questionable sites for about 3 yrs now. My wife discovered the downloaded movie previews and pictures. We have tried everything from embarassing discussions (embarassing for him) and blocking any site that has the word "hentai" in it.

But it's like cockroaches when the lights are turned out. the moment we leave the house for even 5 mins, he's on the computer. If he hears us coming, he powers off (and it being a window 98 machine it easy to see that because of the disk scan that kicks in when we power up) and make like he's so innocent.

Well, now I have a router and the computer is in the kitchen. He can only access using the kids XP profile, which does not access the internet unless and admin account (mine) opens the port on the router. The old computer has its port closed too.

I would like to reinforce what Charlatan posted: early communication and cooperative parenting. All of our kids know what the birds and the bees, and we provide a united front. Having said that, hormones rage on. For the kids as well...

__________________
You said you didn't give a fuck about hockey
And I never saw someone say that before
You held my hand and we walked home the long way
You were loosening my grip on Bobby Orr

http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Leto_Atreides_I

abaya

Can you say more, waltert? Do you really think that porn changed your view, or was it the way sexuality was treated in your household? Not saying it can't change your view, but it's such a cliche that I'd like to know exactly how it "warped" you. Hope this isn't a threadjack, but I think it applies to exactly how and why porn affects teens, and how to approach it...

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

ASU2003

Leto, that is an interesting approach. My Dad didn't know what a router was until I bought them a wireless one at age 24. He definitely doesn't know what port numbers are. And, I would have been able to get around your security setup, I would either plug directly into the router using a different hard drive/linux liveCD(those didn't exist back then) or, I would have reset the router and set it up myself. The only way to stop me would have been to physically keep me from the hardware. But, I had nothing else to do with my time, which brings me to the next item.

I can take a guess, I have major psychological problems from childhood on to today. I have low self esteem, low confidence, no conversation skills and social anxiety. Even though I am not the most attractive person, I would say I look good. However at 14-20, I had problems with how I looked(braces, mild acne, bad haircut, 100-130lbs, weird ears). There is also the fact that 90% of my family, friends and cousins marry the first person they go out on a date with. So, when a cute girl tells the entire 6th grade class that she likes me, I am thinking I don't want to go out with her until I am older because there is no way a relationship would last that long. I don't want to get hurt or hurt her by breaking up. I have never taken any chances at risking rejection, therefore, I have never asked a girl out, unless I knew 99.99999% that she would go out with me and the relationship would work. Porn girls never reject you, and it is easy to find exactly what you want.

The other part is obsessive compulsive stuff. I haven't even looked at half of the stuff I have downloaded, but it is perfectly organized by type.

I should have go into therapy and had help fixing my life at age 13, not 23. There is a lot more as well, no sexual abuse though...

I would think that porn will play much less of a role if I ever did get friends that are girls or a girlfriend. I played a lot of race car video games from age 10-15, but since I started driving a real car, I haven't played a race car video game yet. I would have to figure what I would do with the stuff I have.

Which brings me to:

I don't know what happens if a girl says "no" to some request I make. I wouldn't force it, but maybe ‘disappointed’ would describe what I would feel. I don’t know what to do after that. I'm not big into oral, anal or any other non-standard sex though. I think porn only shows some of what really happens, and what real sex is like is much different. I watch amateur stuff half of the time, so they aren't all 18-year old skinny white blondes. But, as a virgin, I would know the same amount about what real sex as a young virgin teenage couple. I know the mechanics of it (learned at 18 from a porn video), and I do know that some guys have foreskins. The one part it has skewed my viewpoint a little how much a girl weighs. However, I did have an attraction to skinny girls prior to porn (I was skinny). But, I am in shape now and I'll admit, I'm a little more judgmental than most people. But this is because I feel my friends and family will judge me based on how good looking my girlfriend is (race & age included). This is because I never could do anything good enough growing up. Even if I did something right, it could have been done better. The fact that sex and relationships was never ever discussed, there was no divorce, religious morals and the role of females growing up set my views on sex to this day much more than porn. I did learn that gays and lesbians existed at 17, the concept of a threesome at 18, swingers and group sex around 19, and people would have sex for money without ever meeting the guy. Now it is even easier to find porn on the Internet, so I might have been able to get hardcore stuff earlier.

abaya

Charlatan, you and your wife are one hell of a child-raising team. Great to hear about parents who are taking their job very seriously and being pro-active about sex education. I also think it is VERY wise to have the only internet-ready computer in a public place, such as the dining room or living room. No computers in bedrooms... that is just asking for it, especially once the door is closed and lights are off. Of course, he will probably end up getting it from friends later, anyway... but I assume the temptation to look at porn (or at least to get addicted to it) decreases once one's parents have completely covered the reality of sex and there are few "forbidden" aspects to it.

I think it is less about controlling the porn and more about educating the child in every other way... making sure he is a well-rounded person, has lots of friends, involved in many activities and feels confident in himself no matter what... and of course, that his parents model a strong and respectful relationship. That takes a lot of work on the parents' part... but I think that's what being a parent is all about. I think shit really hits the fan when a kid becomes an adolescent and his parents have been too passive all along... and their own kid falls through the cracks. If you are spending lots of quality time with your kid, being a very active and integrating family, there will just be no time to look at porn... at least, I hope that's how it is.

But I'm not a boy, so I don't know what the temptations are like (I didn't see my first porn till I was well into my 20s!)...

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

abaya

Shit ASU, you have a lot of stuff going on. I am sorry to hear your story... but thank you for being honest here. That's what TFP is for. Have you written in your journal about this?...

I just wanted to say that I started going to counseling when I was 23... so believe me, you're not the first one. And yeah, would've helped if I'd gone ten years earlier, but my parents were not the most healthy couple as it... doubt they recognized how awful my internal life was becoming as a teenager.

So you know what? You're not 33, 43, 53, etc. You're pretty damn young, actually, and you can change those patterns that you dislike in yourself. Starting at 23 is nothing... there is plenty of time to work on all your shit. It comes down to how much you care about yourself and want to have healthy relationships in the future. I very heartily encourage you to seek out counseling, and let us know how it goes!!

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Willravel

When my aughter becomes computer litterate (a year or two from now), she will be restricted to one media hour a day (now she has 3, all programming approved by my wife and I). If she earns it, she can have more (up to 2). This media is tv, dvd, internet, or games. She can listen to music as long as she wants. I know enough about Mac OS to know if she's checking out porn online. When I see the signs (including but not limited to deleted history), we will have the birds and the bees conversation. Included in this conversation will be proper behavior with pornography - what is and isn't tabboo, what is dangerous, what is antisocial, what is dangerous - and masterbation - how often is normal, everyone does it, tabboo conversation for public, etc. After this, I will have to trust her.

There is only so much a parent can do without becoming a tyrant.

abaya

This is the part about parenting that really freaks me out... trusting my own kids. But then again, my parents never sat me down and did all that amazing stuff you are talking about, willravel... I think if they had, I honestly would not have been that curious at such a young age.

I think educating kids as much as possible about the realities of this stuff provides a VERY strong foundation, if not to stop them from porn but certainly to keep the lines open between child and parent. For me, I want my future child(ren) to feel comfortable asking me and my spouse about *anything,* and to not feel threatened/embarrassed about their bodies/sexuality. Of course, there is privacy... but I hope they will not be the type to "hide" things from me. It is a mutual trust, isn't it?... I never really had that, but I want to provide that.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Willravel

In my limited experience, I've learned to simply answer all questions in the most complete way possible. When I taught piano, I'd get asked anything about everythin. I once explained nuclear fission to a 7 year old. It wasn't the information that the kid appreciated (eyes glazed over after the word isotope left my mouth), it was the fact that I was able to treat him like an adult and more than willing to be helpful. Maybe he'll understand it late, maybe he won't, but he'll always remember that I was willing to help him understand. Also, sometimes they completly get what you're saying, and then it pays off in every way.

Abaya, I'm sure you'll make an excelent parent.

abaya

Willravel, thanks for your kind words... I guess being an only child has made me a little nervous about becoming a parent someday. I never had to take care of younger siblings, nor did I ever babysit (I lived in the middle of nowhere, no kids younger than me around for miles). I haven't even changed a diaper. But I guess with all things, it's possible to read and study about becoming a parent, and just getting out there and DOING it (without thinking too much).

Anyway, I think you are right... it is all about treating the child as a whole person, no matter what age they are. If a 5-7 year old asks me about where babies come from, I figure I will explain it as objectively and clearly as possible without trying to cover up the reality. If a kid wants to know something, then they deserve to know the truth before they try to find out from another less-reliable source. That was my teaching philosophy, too, when I was a high-school teacher... just to be as straightforward as possible with things, and hope that my honesty would help establish more trust and rapport with the student. It usually worked. I am just not as used to the small ones!!

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

ASU2003

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...8_faull04.html

I found this article today, and if my parents were to take any action, it would be the advice in the article. Take away the computer, put it in a common area, throw away magazines, etc... The problem with that approach is the psychological damage done to the child. They will grow up thinking sex is wrong, bad, and not normal. Plus the parents come out looking like controlling fascists, and the kid will never be able to talk to them about any sexual problem. And will wind up posting about it on some Internet message board.

Talking about it openly is the best policy, but isn't easy. For me, looking at porn isn't the real problem, it is a symptom of a much larger problem. I didn't have much self-esteem or confidence in my teens at all. Basically from being unhappy with the way I looked, not having any money, and spending my free time golfing or working on computers, I never was able to interact positively with girls. Should my parents have helped me out more by getting me to do stuff to make me more attractive (ie. eat more, lift weights, have cosmetic surgery?, I did have braces but those didn't help much). Or should they have done nothing and let me figure it on my own? I went from weighing 120 lbs at 18 to weighing 155lbs at 26 (I'm 5'10"), and I didn't put on the 'freshman 15'. I think I gained 5 lbs a year for 6 years. What role do parents play in the weight of their child though? Should they feed them a lot, give them weight-gainer shakes, get a prescription for testosterone? I guess I got off on a tangent there, but the basic question is "What role do parents play in ensuring their child's mental health will be good?" If they can see that there is a problem, how far should the parent go to fixing it? Would you do something, like buy a nice car, schedule cosmetic surgery or tell your child they need gain/lose weight to be more successful and popular? Or is it all up to the kid to make the most with what they've got?

Back to the Internet porn thing… I think I would have this to say. Looking at porn too much and becoming addicted to it hampers your ability to learn how to form relationships with real girls your age. Yes, porn won’t reject you, and is accepting of your faults, but the lessons you learn when you are a teenager will help you later in life. Almost everyone looks at it once in awhile, but there is a time and place to do so. And if it is causing any problems in your life or relationships, you might need to do something about it.

maleficent

It's up to the parent to help the child to make the most of what they have. It is absolutely not the parent's responsiblity to buy the child a car, to make them cooler, or to get them plastic surgery because they don't like their nose... that is not teaching a child what is important... That's teaching a kid to be materialistic... Would the parent also get the underage kid pot and alcohol to help them to be cool?

If you were a young teen, and your parents told you you needed to lose weight... .would you? That would tend to make the teen more rebellious. A person can only lose weight because they want to -- not because someone is telling them to... A parent can encourage by having healthy snacks in the house and having healthy dinners but that's as far as it can go.

My parents are the two most outgoing people I've ever come across. Lifes of the party... They can arrive anywhere, and not knowing a soul, within an hour, everyone will know who they are and like them.. My mother can get the life story out of anyone... and even at her age (she's 72 now) she'll have boys in their 20s and 30s flirting with her... I, on the other hand, am the biggest wallflower ever... is that my parent's fault? I'd say no-- my being shy and being a wallflower is just part of my personality - and my parents buying me a cool car, or cool clothes, wouldn't have changed that...

A person has to make the most of who they are and what they have, and they have to learn, the younger the better, that money doesn't solve problems, and having someone else buy you something doesn't fix the problem...

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abaya

I agree completely, Mal. I was given far too much as a kid/teen and I have had a hard time growing out of that dependency as an adult. I always wish my parents had put me on an allowance and taught me the value of saving money and working hard long ago... (yes, the good ol' protesting work ethic) ... alas, I have a lot of catching up to do. But I don't plan to spoil my own kids in any way... I hope they will learn what I never did.

But how does that all relate to porn? I suppose even though I wouldn't want to raise materialistic kids, I wouldn't want them to feel like sex is taboo or that they should hide things from me. If they want a girly magazine, fine, we'll talk about sex and the female body and then I'll buy one for them (or their father can do it, if it's a boy). I believe in "spoiling" kids with time/information/knowledge, not things... I think too often it goes the other way.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Zeraph

I was just thinking that the best way might be to let them see playboy mags or what not but without embarrassing them by giving them, yet still have some control over how much they use them since with the internet they could stumble on some pretty bad stuff.

That led me to think of how I first started seeing that stuff, I found my dad's mags when I was around 13. It took me all of 5 minutes to find them once I thought to look for them. I thought to myself that my dad wasn't very clever hiding them under his bed...now looking back I wonder if he was more clever than I thought, and put them there to be found on purpose.