abaya

Don't know which forum to put this in, so I will try this one since most people deal with this pretty often in their day-to-day lives...

How often do you say "I love you" to your SO?

For some people it seems to mean more when they don't say it as often; for others, they say it every time they hang up the phone, and it still means something each time. How does the TFP feel about this?

I bring this up because it's a recurrent issue for me and ktspktsp... I seem to be the type who needs to express it, and hear it expressed, on a regular basis. He does not seem to need either on a regular basis and says that it's because his feelings are already settled in his head, so why express them (especially when we are physically apart).

Then again, my parents and I say it to each other (though they never did to each other) whenever we say goodbye on the phone, and as far as I know he and his parents don't talk much about that stuff. So there's that, too.

Just wondering if people think this is a big deal for them, or if it's something you learn to deal with over time...

Edit: I only talk with my parents 1-2 times a week, if that makes any difference. I'd also like to hear responses from people in long-distance relationships, and if that changes your frequency or not.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

cellophanedeity

We probably say "I love you" to eachother too often. We say it A LOT, but we always mean it, and I always enjoy hearing it.

I like being vocal about things. I figure there's a lot less guesswork that way.

__________________
who am I to refuse the universe?
-Leonard Cohen, Beautiful Losers

la petite moi

If you can't mean it several times a day, then how can you mean it when you say it every so often?

Anyway, we say we love each other a lot. Now, I don't say I love him when I'm angry, because I'm not putting my heart into it, really.

Siege

Personally, i was never big on saying "i love you" constantly to my exs... to me, actions speak louder than words, and my actions and the occasional verbal reminder should be more than sufficient... besides, what good is someone saying "i love you" every ten seconds if you don't feel it?

abaya

Seige, I'm curious what the "occasional verbal reminder" means... how often was that?

I agree with you about not every ten seconds... dunno anyone who actually does that... but I assume you mean every day is too much?

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Sugar&Spice

We say I love you to each other every day. Now, we don't say it every time we hang up the phone. I want him to say it when he is really feeling it and not just as an ending to our 3 min. conversation on the phone. I feel that if he said "I love you" all the time, it would lose the specialness to me.

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-Speak your mind even if your voice shakes

Siege

personally, i feel that everyday is too much.... but it really varies.. i usually say it at fairly random times... but i try my best to find at least 1 random time a week to at least tell her....

but i usually prefer the "i will show her i love her" route instead... be creative, buy her some flowers when she isn't expecting it.. (for all you kids in school, like me, buy her some flowers and TAKE THEM TO HER WHEN SHE IS IN CLASS.. this is generally best when you are in high school though.. small classes, and interrupting a class won't get you killed... bonus points if you don't even go to her school)

or you could make her a nice meal (or take her out to one if you can't cook)...

or you could simply just go meet her when she isn't expecting you... ie: this one time, my ex was in a performance, and i rushed my ass all the way there just in time to catch her before she went on... granted she cryed a little before she went on

oh, and for the flower thing, if she gets embarassed easily, scratch that whole school thing.. cuz she'll kill you

but the best way to make a gurl feel loved is not by telling her, but by showing her (or at least in my limited experience, this is the case)

*Edit after seeing Sugar&Spice's post: my point exactly... saying it constantly makes it lose it's value

abaya

I agree that randomness is good. Especially random creative acts that show how much you were thinking ahead and planning... to me that speaks a thousand "I love you's," when it happens.
Hmm I dunno, not telling her at all? I think a balance between telling AND showing is the best way. Like Cellophane said, being vocal about it (even just once a day or every other day) takes a lot of the guesswork out of it, for those of us who enjoy expressing and hearing expressions regularly. But I know that's a foreign mindset for those who prefer to not say it often... this is the issue I am struggling with. Different love languages...

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

guthmund

I express emotions when they come to me.

Love is expressed just as well through actions, but Siege has already captured the spirit, so, I won't be repeating it.

Once you decide to force the emotion...well what's the point? You're not being true to your feelings or to yourself and that's insulting...to everyone. It's just once you start spouting off "I love you"s a dozen times a day, even if it is just to make the other feel better, it cheapens the sentiment. To routinely fire off "I love you"s simply because it's....routine would reduce the act of, what should be heartfelt sentiment, to the level of the everyday mundane like...lacing up your shoes or doing up the buttons on your shirt.

It's not like I just stop loving someone at random intervals throughout the day. Those I love, they know I love them. I show it with my actions and such everyday. When I am overcome with love and feel the need to express it verbally, which, I'll admit, isn't all that often, there's no doubt I tell them. I don't need constant validation from others to assure me of their love. I guess, I don't expect them to either.

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No signature. None. Seriously.

abaya

Guthmund: your last paragraph reminds me a lot of ktspktsp's position. Definitely not a bad thing... but it takes some getting used to, if one grew up getting used to something more regular.

I'm not sure if the point is about forcing someone into the emotion of saying I love you. I think most people understand that there is no love in force...

But what I am curious about is why some individuals, even on this thread, feel compelled to say it so much more often (and here often = more than once a day, not every minute or hour as a flippant comment tagged on to everything), and it really does mean something for them each time... it is not just said for validation... while others are content to wait until they are "overcome" with love to say anything?

As a member of the first group, I can only explain that I want to say it more often because I do feel "overcome" that often... and to hold in my expression of that, pains me. And somehow, in return, I desire for my bf to express similar things, in my hope that we are both constantly overcome by our love... is that a need for validation? I can accept that that is part of it, but why is a verbal expression so difficult for some, and so easy for others... insecurity doesn't suffice to explain this difference.

And now I will ramble: why does it come so much easier to my bf when we are physically together, when he is already affirming me in many other ways (physically, for one)... but then when we are hundreds of miles apart each week, he knows that I long for affectionate words even more in the distance... and yet he does not express such things? It is a puzzle to me, even though he and I have discussed this.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

chickentribs

I think that if it is said too quickly in the relationship it can cheapen the sentiment. It has always taken me a while to get there, and I'm wary of people who don't seem to give it time to be natural. Once I get there, though, I am perfectly comfortable with it as a sign of endearment and gentle reminders to her that she is special to me throughout the day.

To me it translated out as "I am rushed at work, but as I hang up the phone you know that you're in my world and not forgotten" as oppossed to "I love you, do you believe me yet??" I couldn't tell you how it was ever interpreted on the other side, I don't believe I would want to know...

Strangely, she and I were never thought of as the overly romantic couple by our friends, probably because we were together a number of years and it always a natural thing to say - not forced. Hard to explain...

__________________
Oft expectation fails...
and most oft there Where most it promises
- Shakespeare, W.

Bryndian_Dhai

My husband and I are a little mismatched on this issue... I say it a lot more than he does... I say it when I'm feeling it, and I feel it rather often. *smiles* He doesn't say it as much as I do, but he does tell me regularly that he loves me, usually after a phone conversation, or when he's leaving. I know he loves me, though, so its not really a problem. And I know he knows I love him... he may not say it as often as I do, but I really think he likes hearing it as often as I like saying it. His folks are less vocal about the words than my parents are... Oddly enough, though, I know how his parents feel about us, and I'm not always so sure about mine.... Don't ask... Sometimes hearing the words really isn't enough to balance out what you see and experience every day... Which is why I like to make sure he knows I love him even if I don't say it. (Like when we're fighting... the fact that we love each other is never an issue, and we're able to deal with whatever the problem is and move on).

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“When facism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”
~Sinclair Lewis

chickentribs

abaya, people are just wired differently. As an example, maybe in his mind the love is such an unspoken given it frustrates him because it comes across that you don't have his faith in the relationship and need constant affirmation. 2 very different ways of looking at it, but both can be true. It seems that there's no changing how we each demonstrate and feel love, you just have to recognize different people will all have different ways of communicating and we are all too old to figure out another way at this point.

__________________
Oft expectation fails...
and most oft there Where most it promises
- Shakespeare, W.

abaya

Ribs, are you actually my bf writing in disguise?? Kidding. Really, though, that's almost exactly what he says to me when I bring this stuff up. Maybe it's true, I don't know... but it didn't used to be true. I don't want to bring up the past, but it used to be such a non-given thing that we said it all the time, and meant it. Somewhere along the line it became a given for him, but I still wanted to hear it just as much. I wish I didn't need constant affirmation, I really wish that. It kills me when I get like this... and believe me, I am working on it as much as possible. But it never seems to go away, and that really gets to me.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Ella

I say it more than he does. That's not to say he loves me less than I love him, but that's just my nature. Sometimes we're together all day and we don't say it. Other times we say it a lot. Just depends on the mood. We don't live together, so we will say it daily in text messages when we don't see each other for a while.

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"Afterwards, the universe will explode for your pleasure."

chickentribs

Well, I imagine this tends to be a pretty fundamental difference between men and women... I know pretty specifically about myself what makes a relationship with me difficult, which is good. I also know none of that will likely change, bad. So my first goal is to stay out of relationships - worked great for 2 years until just recently I made the mistake of letting a good friendship get romantic. The old bait and switch - I'm such a sucker!

Anyway - habits like saying 'I love you' routinely are a good Preemptive Strike against a few inevitable things I know are coming! A new habit is easier to form than my old habits are to break. That doesn't mean I would mean it any less. Rather it is that I learned to appreciate the value of a small steady stream of affection for my SO, and for me it was a reminder to keep that person important when I get caught up with work and life and I tend to push things (people) to another "shelf" in my priority list. Eh, it makes sense to me anyway...!

An idea for you abaya - why don't you make a deal that your boyfriend write you 2 or 3 different letters explaining why you are important to him. It will be painful for him (he's a guy), but than you can pull one out when you need a little affirmation until you both find a happy middle ground. In return, you drop the need for his I love you's by half or whatever. I know letters aren't as good as him calling on his own with a 'Hello, love' - but, you will have something to embarass him with in front of his friends when he steps out of line. That's good, yeah?

__________________
Oft expectation fails...
and most oft there Where most it promises
- Shakespeare, W.

abaya

Yes Ribs, what you say here makes perfect sense to me, actually. See, an old dog CAN learn new tricks... you were saying earlier that people don't change, just accept them the way they are. A good point, definitely. But I believe that for a relationship to work, each person has to work damn hard to form new habits in order to overcome the old ones. Either that or seek out someone whose old habits are the same as theirs, and therefore require less work.

As for your suggestion: heh, I think I've asked him for letters and cards more than a few times, and he does come through on holidays and emergencies. I go back and read the ones that I have very often, as a proxy for what I need to hear. He does also call me often to say hello, so it's not that he's lacking in that area. In fact I don't really think he's lacking in many areas, that's the problem... it's me with the insecurity, it seems. But I thank you kindly for your suggestions through this night and I will talk with him again tomorrow about all this.

(Am I threadjacking my own thread?)

Let's bring it back around. Who among you TFP'ers says I love you, how often, and why? More importantly, how to resolve things when two people are very different in this aspect?

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

maleficent

Every so often, when I'm in the office, I'll hear snippets of conversations of the conversations of the guys talking to their spouses (I am the only female in the office). Every phone conversation ends with I love you... Now I think that's cute, considering that none of them are newlyweds. But honestly, I really wonder if it's just not a conditioned response. Yes, I am sure they love their wives, but...

SO it's been a while since I've been in a relationship, but I can remember back that far, I rarely said I love you. I didn't need to. There was never a question as to how I felt. My actions said love a lot more than words did. Talk is cheap, I'd rather have someone show me they loved me... rather than constantly tell me.

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StanT

Count me in the "rarely" category.

I live it every day. I took care of her for 2 years while she recouperated from back surgery. She did the same for me while I recovered from cancer surgery. We are 2 Alpha personalities that have learned to coexist over the years. Constant "I love you"s seem Pavlovian to me. If she can't read it in my actions, we have much bigger problems.

JustJess

Hm, Quadro and I are both pretty damned mushy. We try not to be so much so around other people, but we say it pretty frequently. Mostly cause I just can't help it, I want to!! Plus, we are aware that both of us have some needs that way... we both need some re-affirmation. While neither ever doubts the other's love... it's just life that gets to you sometimes, and if your SO just calls and says "hey, i love you"... it makes me feel a bit better about how the day is going. I think Q feels the same way. It's not just "hey you're special", it's also "hey you're special, and the day is going to get better".
Were it me in your shoes, I would feel that your BF should be able to tell you a little more often - once a day isn't so much, really - and you should shift a little too, to being okay with something like once a day. Compromise... ah, the cornerstone of most relationships!!

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My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

ophelia783

We say I love you pretty frickin' often, except for lately, when only he says it (an incident happened that I was upset about). I do think that if you're mad or hurt, it doesn't come as easily, because you're feeling wounded, but that's just me.

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~*~* He with a sharp tongue slits his own throat *~*~

tecoyah

I say it Every Day, and So does my Harpie......it is honest and feels the same as it did when our relationship was young. The meaning behind the words has evolved through the years.....and this we both know as well.

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

veruca

my husb and I say it constantly...at least once an hour..lol... he even emails me from work about every hour to tell me he loves me and misses me.I wasn't like that before him..but he just likes to say it all the time and it rubbed off

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How you turned my world, you precious thing
You starve and near exhaust me
Everything I've done, I've done for you
I move the stars for no one

Carno

Never for me

I've never told a girl I loved her, much to the chagrin of several of my girlfriends. Why say it if you don't mean it?

Cynthetiq

all the time, on a daily basis.

I don't think that it devalues if it's said all the time. I think it's devalued if it's said and there is no actions to back it up. Saying I love you all the time and then choosing to be with your friends/work/hoobbies doesn't show it very well.

As far as my family and friends are concerned, I try to tell them that I love them also as often as I can since I do not live near most of them.

I have been saying I love you to friends that since 9/11.

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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Gilda

I'll tell Grace two or three times a day, and she'll do the same for me.

Please note that when I say, I don't understand something below, I mean I don't understand it; I'm not criticising, just expressing my inability to connect to that kind of thinking, a flaw in me, not in others.

I can't understand the, "It means more if I say it less" attitude. This makes it sound as if your love for another person is a finite quantity, and every time you tell her "I love you," you use some of that love up, but if you say it less, each one contains more love. Every time I tell Grace I love her, I mean it equally.

I also can't quite connect to the, "I don't say it; I show it with my actions." These two things aren't mutually exclusive. You can show your love through what you do and tell the other person you love them often.

One last thought. Isn't part of loving someone doing things that show your love? And if you're with someone who needs the words, wouldn't telling them be one of those things you could do to show your love?

There are days I'd kill to hear my father tell me, just once, that he loves me.

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I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that.

~Steven Colbert

Siege

well, for me, i would prefer to show it through my actions, because back in the day when i had a SO i didn't get to see her everyday and since we were both in school, calls weren't exactly possible except at night when we were usually busy either with work, or simply because her parents were kind of strict and didn't like her spending that much time with me, so every time i saw her, i would like to show her that she meant a lot to me....

perhaps some people are getting me wrong.. it's not as if i NEVER said it to her.. it's just that i don't say it as often as other people.

that's where i'd differ again... i'd rather my dad show me that he loved me.. simply by spending some time with me.... he can tell me he loves me if he wants, but i'm not going to feel any better if he doesn't back it up with actions

abaya

Cyn, yeah, I agree with you on all points. Love without works is dead.

Also I used to even dread saying it to my parents a lot before 9/11, since they said it all the time to me, but since that day I have felt much better saying it as often as I can. You really just never know when you might lose someone... and even if you don't lose them, what harm does it cause to say it often, if you mean it? I only see good things that come out of it.

Gilda, I echo everything you said in your e-mail. I think the most powerful comment was this: This reminds me of the book on the five love languages... anyone read that? It is about learning what ways your partner best receives love (words, touch, gifts, service, or quality time), and how you best receive love. Also, how to adjust so that you can give love to them in the way they need it most, and also adjust so that you can receive what they're offering in return (even if it doesn't always match what you need). Matching up needs, I guess.

Let me ask: has anyone said from their deathbed: "I regret saying 'I love you' so much during my lifetime"? I HIGHLY doubt it... probably the opposite, isn't it? (Gilda, I am thinking about your father... I hope that someday he comes to regret that he never expressed that he loved you.)

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

guthmund

It's not that it means more if said less. Holding back an emotion doesn't make that emotion more valuable and it doesn't mean I mean it any less after it's expressed. It just seems to me that when it becomes a matter of habit rather than a true expression of feelings, it cheapens the sentiment behind the words.

Words are cheap. My best friend's father had no problems telling him that he loved him very much, but his actions said differently. When he got drunk and beat the crap out of him and his mother, the sobbing afterward did very little to heal the bruises. In the end, his father loved him so much, that he walked out on him 15 years ago and hasn't bothered to even contact his son despite the fact they live about hour away from each other. Words are easy and they don't cost a thing. I can say I'm sorry, I love you, I apologize and express every given emotion to mankind, but it doesn't mean a thing unless I really am sorry, or love you, or apologize. Words and actions are all perfectly fine ways for expressing sentiment, but they are not equal.

But what if he didn't really mean it? Are the words salvation to the psyche or is it the intent behind it?

What I don't understand, and like you said, I'm not criticizing, is the need for constant validation. Isn't it enough to know that they love you through their actions? What makes the words as equally powerful?

I guess, what I'm trying to ask is....Does someone need to constantly tell you it's raining outside for you to believe it? Isn't what you see out the window more convincing than anything that comes out of the other's mouth?

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No signature. None. Seriously.

hambone

I just finished that book with my wife actually. That is exactly what I was going to reference though. People show and feel love in different ways. Being able to express that between each is an important part of a relationship. If the other person likes to hear "I love you" a lot and you love them, then tell them. It may not carry the same meaning to you, but to them it means the world. This is how my wife is. I personally would rather her show she loves me by doing something for me, or with me, instead of just verbalizing it (although I like that too, just not as often as she seems to). Therefore, learn what shows your partner you love them, and do that. Love shouldn't be all about you.

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"Like liquid white from fallen glass,
Nothing to cry over"

maleficent

Said absolutely perfectly... Those were the words that I've been looking for...

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Lead543

streak_56 just sent me a text message on my cellphone from a class he's in saying "I love you". I say it or he says it everytime we have to part ways but we also say it at random times during the day. I think the random times are the best because it shows he's thinking about me or vice versa. To me it never loses its sentiment because it's never said, "Just because I have to." Anyways, that's what works for us.

ngdawg

Spouse says it all the time, going to the store, going to work, going to bed....ok, ok, i get it. You love me. It gets to where I feel I have to answer back in kind and after 1/4 century, it needs some kind of freshening up.
I tell my friends and family 'I love you' when signing off a phone call most times and give them x0x0x0's online.
Generally, though, I prefer to show by action and attention, not just verbalizing. Words are words and they can be empty ones without the actions to back them up.

abaya

Excellent point. I don't think anyone here is advocating that one should just spout off words without actions/feelings behind them... at least, I certainly hope not. But I do think that words compliment and enhance action and feelings, especially for some people (like me). To me, actions can become "habitual" and emotionally lazy in their own way (not always, though)... but that's my perspective. Sometimes words really do just mean more to certain individuals. Do we need to disagree about what's more important? There's no accounting for taste.

But I think we can all agree that each person should not only do what comes naturally to them (action or words), but they should do what their relationship needs to thrive and be in the best health possible. Unless the two people are very much alike, each should do what may in fact be very difficult for that person (again, action or words). Love does not mean doing that which comes naturally... hence the whole sacrifice thing, as hambone said:

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

maleficent

I've mentioned this in passing before, but i'll bring it up again... not for sympathy or anything but eg -- i don't know... I lost my best friend of more than 30 years who was working in the towers on 9/11 -- plus about 15 other people that I had close working relationships with... I am not the type of person who will blurt out I Love You, it's not in my chemistry, if I said it, it probably wouldn't be genuine. People know I care and in some cases know I love them because I give them time, and I give them myself. that's way more importan that three words. Tom and I never said we loved each other, but there's wasn't a day that went by that I didn't know how he felt, and I know it was the same for him. I know when I see him again, that the first words out of his mouth will not be, yo bitch, why didn't you say you loved me, it will be just picking up where we left off. The affection was strong, the affection was there and will always be there,a nd there is not a day that goes by that I don't miss him with every fiber of my being, but it's never once entered into my head that it's the I Love You that I miss or need - it was what he gave to me

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maleficent

Not so sure about that -- if one person is making a sacrafice for the other person, at some point that person is going to get tired of it it and is going to want to be themself. It seems it's a recipe for failure if one person is making a sacrafice just to give another person what they are already getting, but need it in another way... Opposites in this case, don't attract..

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JustJess

THAT is true. You should give love the way they need it, and receive it the way you need it. Whatever your reasons.

I say I love you all the time, but I hope to never feel this way about it. I'm sorry you do.

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My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

abaya

Again Mal, good points all (and in your previous thread, too--I certainly believe that you and Tom had an incredible understanding of each other, and that's rare). But I have to say that not every person will get tired of sacrificing, especially if they see what joy it brings to the person they love, and if the other person comes to trust and love them even more as a result.

Sometimes, in my own (precious few, sadly) sacrifices, I come to realize why I am so willing to give up some things... and that makes me realize why the person I am with is worth so much effort, and why I should continue trying. Sometimes, yes, resentment builds... and that can cause a break-up (I have nearly been to that point, myself)... but in the end, if you can get through it together, I think it can strengthen instead of embitter you. Hell, even if you do break up, at least you both tried damn hard.

Then again, I am in a more optimistic mood this evening, than I was at 5am last night, as you saw... so I do understand the more hesitant, guarded, pessimistic side, too.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Gilda

But what if he didn't really mean it? Are the words salvation to the psyche or is it the intent behind it?

Oh, I know he doesn't love me, he told me so the last time we talked. I had known that for quite some time, but it still hurt me deeply to hear the words.

But if he said it, I'd believe it. He may not be a good father, but he is honest, and even if he were saying it just to comfort me or make me feel better, it would be comforting to know that he cared enough about me to want me to feel better.

Isn't it enough to know that they love you through their actions? What makes the words as equally powerful?

The words aren't equally powerful; the actions matter, a lot.

That said, some of us aren't adept at reading emotions in others, and sometimes the others aren't good at expressing emotions. The words are a quick, easy, and (when they're true) powerful way to express one's love.

I guess, what I'm trying to ask is....Does someone need to constantly tell you it's raining outside for you to believe it? Isn't what you see out the window more convincing than anything that comes out of the other's mouth?

If I'm inside, someone does need to generally tell me what the temerature is outside, and whats more, needs to do so every day. In this case, what's coming out of the person's mouth does matter more than what I see with my own eyes.

K-Wise

I'd just like to chime in and say that that is horrible. No offense but thats just wrong on a very deep level. It's unfair to send your children back out into the world damaged. Trust me..I know. If it's any consolation to you, I think you are very much deserving of love from anyone and anyone who can't love you simply must not be letting themself do so.

Asta!!

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"I love music and it's my parents fault (closing statement)." - Me..quoting myself...from when I said that...On TFP..thats here...Tilted Forum Project

It ain't goodbye, it's see ya later! I'll miss you guys! - Asta!!