Anonymous Member

What do you do when your boyfriend tells you he wants to start using vicodin everyday, not for pain. He say one a day will be no problem and it will help him get though work.

He just started using cocaine on a daily basis, small amounts, less than a line a day, to help him get though work. He says it's not affecting him in a bad way, and I am whining when I say anything about it. He is more on edge and quick to anger.

Maybe I am just imagining he is and I am whining to much and I just need to let it be. The amount he is using is about the same as you would get from the leaves they chew in South America, and they don't seem to have a problem with it.

I don't know what else to say. He respects the people of TFP a lot, and will surely read this and probably get mad that I posted this. I need some opinions of people who have dealt with this. What can I expect, what can I do.

If I say anything he just gets mad at me for whining about it. He says he is not stupid and wont have the same problems people with bad addictions have.

I need more than for people to say drugs are bad, don't do them. He will never listen to that.



Please help!

braisler

Easy advice... leave. Things are going to get worse, not better. If you are already noticing negative changes from his habits, and have brought them to his attention only to have him blow it off... yeah, get out while you can.

Maybe, just maybe, you taking your shit and getting out will be enough of a wake-up call to him that he needs to take a closer look at what he is doing and whether it is worth it.

ratbastid

I don't know anything about his situation or his life, but that sentence you wrote above scares the crap out of me. EVERY SINGLE ADDICT THINKS THAT. Every SINGLE one. I mean, okay, there might be some who know the path they're headed down, but for the most part, an addict thinks it can't happen to him.

We need Pan on this thread, really. He's our resident substance abuse and recovery expert.

girldetective

What can you expect? Trouble with a capital T.
What can you do? Run, run, run away.

__________________
As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons...be cheerful; strive for happiness - Desiderata

ring

Yes, this is very scary.
You say he is more edgey and quick to anger:
This is how fast drugs can change a person's personality.
His anger could easily escalate very quickly.

Are able to talk to your parents openly?
You need to get a safety plan and I mean NOW!.

There are many hotline numbers in the phone book.
Pick up the book and call someone now!

Many of us have made the mistake
of trying to ride it out and hope that it won't get worse.

I know it's difficult to think about leaving someone you love very much.

Please reach out to the professionals in your area,
very very soon.

Anonymous Member

I need to let you know I am not a perfect little angel in this. I use cocaine as well, once a week. I know I should never do more than that. We agreed it is bad to use on a daily basis because of the personality changes. I know most of you are going to say I shouldn't use at all, and you are probably right. This is where it has led to.

There is so much more I should say. I just don't have the words.

I want to help him. I love him more than I have ever loved anyone. It tearing me apart to think it has come to this.

genuinegirly

I am not a professional. I know jack crap about this kind of stuff.
Deep down I think run, but I wonder what would happen if you tried something like this:

Have him show you that he doesn't need it every day.
If he can easily go a month without the substances, then it's not an addiction.
If he can't, he needs help.

You can either choose to see him through this craziness, or run. Best to run at the beginning, before you sustain any major emotional or mental harm.

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

Anonymous Member

I do choose to see him though this craziness. We can both be a little crazy sometimes.

It's not all bad, he can be really loving at times. This daily use is only started this week.

I feel my mentioning it to him today is what made him angry. Maybe he isn't doing so bad. I know work is stressing him out. We both just could have gotten up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.

SabrinaFair

The words "NOT HEALTHY" are flashing through my mind right now. I'm not judging you or your situation, but there are certain things that give me pause.

First of all, I don't know anyone who doesn't experience some level of stress on their job. Of course we all have our coping mechanisms--caffeine, nicotine, an after-work martini....whatever. BUT if your job stress is so high that you have to resort to recreational drug use....there seems to be a problem. Using illegal drugs, or legal drugs in an illegal fashion, can give you bigger job problems--like not having one.

Second of all, you describe this relationship as "not all bad" and your SO as being "really loving at times". Now, I know relationships aren't all wine and roses, but, your use of these descriptors make me nervous. Evaluate things and ask yourself how much is bad, and how often he's not "really loving". It may be more than you think.

I wish you the best of luck with this...

__________________
"With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful. Strive to be happy."
-Desiderata

ratbastid

Okay, so above I noted something that every addict thinks? THIS IS SOMETHING EVERY ADDICT ENABLER THINKS. Seriously. I've SEEN this. It's headed nowhere good. It's not too late to turn things around, but do NOT think you're going to "ride it out" or "see him through". This is not a rough patch, and things WON'T just work out.

Anonymous Member

That does sound bad, understand I am feeling hurt this morning.

It is usually really good, but lately it has been going badly more often and I see how he has been different. He swears he is not being affected by the small amount he is using.

I set him off this morning after I reminded him of something stupid. He reacted to me in a harsh tone. So I mentioned his daily use has made him irritable. That made him angry and he said he hadn't even used any yet today. Then we argued about it until I decided to relent and just stop the fight. He continued to speak in an angry tone. I asked him to stop, and he said I shouldn't have started the fight. I got upset again.
I didn't want to start a fight, but he did seem more on edge.

Yes I am an enabler, and I have my own problems too. You just don't realize it's happening until it is too late. I also know when you are in this deep you don't see yourself as having a problem.

Thank you all for taking the time to reply to my post. I am trying to do the right thing.

Sometimes we need to hear the things we don't want to.

cdwonderful

recreational drug use is just that, recreational.
If you even think you have a problem, you do.
I hope you can do the right thing....

__________________
Never try to teach a pig to whistle
it wastes your time,
and annoys the pig.....

*Nikki*

It doesn't sound to me like you really want to change anything at all. Why do you want people to tell you drug use is bad, isn't this common sense??

MSD

Opiates are tolerance-building and addictive. It doesn't matter who you are or how great you think your tolerance is, you will develop a tolerance and physical dependence. One vic a day will help him get through it for a few weeks, then he'll need to step up to two, and so on until he kills himself or ends up in rehab. Since Vicodin also has APAP in it, he's not doing his liver any favors, either, especially if he drinks at all.

Coke isn't physically addictive, but it's a bad habit because it acts so strongly on the mesolimbic pathway. Unless you're dealing in hundreds of kilos, it's also cut two to four times by the time it gets to you with things like chalk, baking soda, sugar, or anything else white and powdery. Something that impure is going to wreak havoc on his sinuses, and not having a constant nosebleed should be enough of a motivation to stop. How much is he actually using daily?

Finally, combining stimulants and depressants puts a huge amount of stress on the circulatory and respiratory systems. I don't know if you're a longtime member or a newbie, but people here can tell you that I'm about as open-minded to recreational drug use as it gets as long as it's done responsibly. If he goes through with what he intends to do, he will have a heart attack within a few years, be popping multiple OCs a day by next year, or OD and hopefully learn his lesson instead of kicking the bucket.

Anonymous Member

Multi-year drug user here of whatever was available.

I thought the same thing. It didn't affect my ability to be with my friends, loved ones, workmates, the world.

I used a little here and a little there to get me through the day. I used it like a carrot for the end of the day. One day I needed that little burst to get me started in the morning and push me off into the world. It was the beginning of the end. It started with a little, then a little took a lot, which seemed like just a little, but it really was a lot.

I hid it from friends and from loved ones for the most part. Some knew. Others had no idea.

My advice, seek guidance in Ala-non. It may seem hokey and stupid. But find shelter there in understanding what is going on around you.

As far as your SO is concerned. He will not stop until he decides it is time to stop. It may be tomorrow. It may be years. It isn't yours to decide, you only can decide what you do for your life and your life alone.

good luck.

MacGuyver

I think that you need to confront him about this directly. Don't beat around the bush. Losing your significant other is a tough thing, and if you're meant to be together you can work through the problem, even if it means you are apart. But don't forget that if he continues to do these habits, you'll lose him anyways, in a much worse, much more painful, possibly deadly way. I think making a strong stand is the only way to save this situation. If he really loves you and sees how hurt that you are from this, then something will give.

Much love, good luck.

__________________
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit.
---Aristotle

Deeds, not words, shall speak [for] me.
---John Fletcher

Cynthetiq

I probably will be channeling abaya in saying that you need to seek counseling both single and couples. A good program of sobriety tossed in for good measure will be my addition to that.

There's no reason to treat you harshly or like crap or poorly or whatever you'd like to call it.

I am sometimes tormented by the flashes of visions I have from moments of fighting with Skogafoss from the past.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Glory's Sun

I used to be an addict.. coke was my drug of choice.. I had an extremely expensive habit and was doing way more than what your boyfriend is using.. but guess what? It started out with a line or two a day to get me through that crappy part of the work day or just because I wanted to feel numb. It didn't take long before I was unsatisfied with the one or two lines.. I wanted at least an eightball a day. Yeah..I was fucked up.

At first it didn't affect my friendships or work or family.. but as I got deeper into the powder, things just sort of spun out of control. If a friend wasn't down with my habit I would ignore him/her.. if they were cool I'd hang out but only long enough to keep them as a friend and then go score another gram or whatever I wanted. I never lost a job because of the stuff, but I'm sure my performance was less than stellar.

Now the vicodin. I have vicodin and oxy and everything else they make for pain because the doc prescribes it to me. I only take it when I have to take it because I know what happens. One will work for a little while, then it will be two.. then it will be 5 and you've gone and fucked up your liver from all the acetaminophin and then you're looking for money because you have to find some pills to reduce your detox like side effects. No thanks.

I'm assuming that he wants the vicoden to help with the comedown after his coke has worn off. That's not a very smart thing to do .. but it's at least slightly better than using both of them at the same time.

SO here's my advice: If you (collective you) can't keep a drug recreational and your personality changes..then it's time to stop..and assess yourself. You may have thought you didn't have an addictive nature..but you may find out the opposite is true. SO you need to build a support system and get away from an enabler. If you are an enabler.. you need to take the bull by the horns and get the shit out of the other persons face.. don't give them money.. don't do anything that will allow them to slip back into the spiral. I can promise you.. no matter if you are just starting out or you've used for years..eventually it will spiral in one way or another.

Anonymous Member

He can't find vicodin so he isn't going to be able to do as he says. He just tells me that he wants to. Sometimes he tells me he tempted to get some heroin. This really disturbs me of course, I have seen lots of people lost to heroin addiction.

I wasn't saying I didn't want to hear that. I was just hoping someone would have something more to say than that. I know he will read this and I know telling him that will not help.

I don't expect him just to stop or do anything for me, but realize it is affecting how we interact. I guess it is too much to ask and I am just as guilty as he is. I don't know what to say. I love him, but this is destroying everything we are.

I'll have to move into a shelter and get on with my life. I'm breaking my own heart by leaving, but it probably what is best for us both. I want him to be happy, and I just make him so angry lately. If can't keep my mouth shut and keep the peace, I am only making it worse.

I want to help him, but I understand you can only help yourself. I don't want to change him. I just want it to be like it was before.

I guess he's right, I am neurotic.

genuinegirly

Nope, you're not neurotic. Just trying to figure out the best move in a difficult situation.

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

Cynosure

Maybe. But more likely her taking her shit and getting out will depress him like hell, and send him on the downward spiral even faster. Still, I recommend her getting out. Because, fast or slow, with her or without her, he is on a downward spiral, and there's no sense in her being dragged down with him.

Tiny Dancer

Ok well this is what I can tell you, That you need help and for you to help him you must leave and admit your self to rehab for your self. You as a user your self can never help him change or even be a better person for himself because you are not that person for yourself.

I know that this can be hard to read but it's just the way it is. I have experianced this way to much in life and have been able to keep myself out of it except for smoking a little weed that that is for a whole different thread and story. It's not that same and I'll leave it at that.

If you don't want any of these things to change then don't. Keep doing your drugs and he will keep doing his and you both will eventually OD with each other or end in an aginy of demise. It wont be good ever if you stay and not take charge of your addiction first. You can NOT ever help him if you do NOT help yourself first.

I know that it is hard and difficult, trust me. I've been through similar situation. I've seen a lot of this in my life. You are just going to have to try and be strong for you. To be there for you and do what needs to get done for you.

---------- Post added at 05:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:52 PM ----------

You are not making him angry. The drugs are making him this way. Also not getting the drugs that he wants is making him like this. You have no baring in how he is CHOOSING to feel.

Anonymous Member

I don't want to turn this into a public drama but I must give my side of the story. And I will politely decline to tell you all what % of her monthly income she spends on blow herself. I am not a saint. Judge me if you will.

I take probably 50 mg a day, this is not a lot of coke, this is not even a single line, this is practically coca leaf levels. Some Indian down there probably gets that much cocaine in a day chewing leaves and he doesn't have his woman complaining about it to the tribe. I'll take a gram on one day of the weekend but you're doing it with me.

The vicodin IS for pain, not physical but mental pain. It's definitely not for the come down from the coke, because I'm not sure if everyone's aware, but there IS no come down from <100 mg a day. You don't even get high. Please do not assume I am getting high every day, I am not. It's like caffeine but better, a little energy boost and focus with no jittery crash. I definitely recommend it, if you can handle your shit.

Leave if you must, I am tired of babysitting. Lets see you pay your own rent and bills for once and tell me you're not going to be hating life at some point.

dippin

First of all, there is really no way to compare amounts of cocaine consumed with coca chewing. Cocaine content in leaves is around 1%, and bioavailability of cocaine through chewing is about 1/3, as opposed to over 60% from cocaine. So 50mg (assuming it is somewhere close to pure) is equal to chewing about 1 kilogram of leaves, which is order of magnitudes more than the usual.

Second, as said above, opiates are tolerance building. Whatever relief from pain, be it mental or physical, you are feeling right now, will pretty soon start to disappear. And then you will have to increase your dosage. Not really an ideal long term solution.

Third, while recreational drug use can be fun, you are way beyond that. Needing drugs because you hate life and need to deal with the mental pain of living is dependence.

Fourth, regardless of what you do about your drug use, using one's financial dependency on the other as either a reason to stay together or as a power issue is not really healthy for a relationship.

World's King

The only way to measure someone's coke habit is in the number of hookers they've killed.

__________________
heavy is the head that wears the crown

Xerxys

LOL, .... mental pain.

I remember getting into a fight with someone because they threw this line at me.

This is the part where I go into details about how drugs are bad, blah blah blah .....

Dude, stop using the drugs.

Girl, get a job, get out.

Nuff said.

little_tippler

To the boyfriend - you are lying to yourself. I hope you are able to realize this before it's too late to turn back. If you need a substance to get you through the day, you need to change something in your life so that is not a need anymore.

To the girlfriend - When you love someone that much, it's heart wrenching to let go. But you are an individual and this is eating away at you. You resent him for it. Apart from the fact that we're talking about drug use, you're not happy with it and he's fine with it. You clash. This is at the heart of the problem between you two. Why are you taking coke as well? I don't understand. Right now, the best thing you can do for yourself, is get away, and clean up yourself. Know who you want to be, on your own. There's not much you can do for him - he has to help himself.

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

Lucifer

This thread has officially jumped the shark.

__________________
I am a brother to dragons, and a companion to owls.
- Job 30:29

1123, 6536, 5321

Psycho Dad

I'm no expert in this shit... But it seems you half realize there is a problem and he denys it. You should leave him and get help for yourself. It would seem best to me that you work on putting your life on track instead of fixing his first. Kind of like putting the oxygen mask on yourself before helping the person in the seat next to you.

__________________
Don't always trust the opinions of experts.

Tully Mars

Sir you have a problem. I know in your head you don't but in reality you do. If you're taking pain killers for mental pain you're doing it wrong. That's like driving down the highway in reverse. You can do it but you really don't get anywhere in the end and the hazards are beyond serious. And your coffee analogy sucks. Coffee doesn't lead to problems like coke and opiates. Or even alcohol for that matter. It's like comparing the flame from a match and blast furnace and saying it's all just fire. Bullshit. Sounds like you're thinking about moving on to heroin, or at least tempted to do so. Seriously, you're in denial and you need to seek help.


And your little power play of "move out and see how you like paying your own way in life" is complete crap. Your relationship is in such trouble that you're likely playing your last card and it's a bullshit card. It's a crappy thing to try to do to someone and you're doing it to someone you care about. Not only that you're doing it and claiming this shit isn't effecting your life. It's just "a little energy boost" that you "definitely recommend." I'll pass on that recommendation. I believe you believe what you're saying... but it's crap.

---------- Post added at 09:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:58 AM ----------

I don't think you're neurotic, I mean you might be. But I don't read anything here that says neurotic. I read this and think you're in an unhealthy relationship and engaging in unhealthy behaviors yourself. Neurotic is a pretty specific term used to describe a personality disorder or some type of imbalance in the brain. You're dealing with a substance abuse/addiction problem and your drug use is clouding an already bad situation. I have no way of knowing but I'd be willing to bet you're using more then you realize. You say you "don't want to change him- "I just want it to be like it was before." Well the reality is it isn't like it was and likely never will. Certainly not while you're both using. You said it well when you wrote "I love him, but this is destroying everything we are." If you love him leave. Get yourself in a shelter and get some help. I've seen couples reunite from shit like this but right now you're right and this is destroying everything you were.

You're in a storm and it's likely only to get worse. Seek shelter. Get out, seek help... be honest with yourself.

__________________
I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo

Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

cj2112

Take his advice and leave. He isn't paying your bills because he loves you. He's paying them because he owns you.

Love is a verb, it's not how we feel, it's what we do. This isn't love.

Telluride

I don't know much about Vicodin. What benefits do you get from it aside from the reduction/elimination of pain?

__________________
"I am certain that nothing has done so much to destroy the safeguards of individual freedom as the striving after this mirage of social justice." - Friedrich Hayek

Glory's Sun

It gives an opiate effect similar to heroin if you do it right. Which is why when you step out of doing them as prescribed (any opiate derivative) it's extremely hard to quit. The only thing you are doing is making yourself dependent on a drug and killing your liver from the APAP.

As I said before I have just about any pain killer out there.. but I'm not stupid with them..I've seen people OD and die off of oxy.. so I know what it can do if you don't respect it.

Another thing.. to the person who wants to use vicodin in this thread. Vicodin isn't for mental pain.. if you have mental pain then see a shrink and get the correct drug to help you with the problem. If you use things like vicodin or oxy or whatever for mental pain you're only going to make the problem worse and still have your mental pain.

ngdawg

Wow. What a crock.....I'd have an easier time believing you if you tried to convince there's an Easter Bunny.

Mental pain? Here's a word you may or may not be familiar with: Psychologist.
For what you're spending on an illegal substance would probably pay for legitimate help.
Bet you have a reasoning behind not doing that to.
Drugs for recreational use? At least that's an honest excuse. Coke for mental pain? Total BS copout, dude.

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

World's King

This thread is going nowhere.


Cool.

__________________
heavy is the head that wears the crown

Zeraph

I'd recommend getting on an SSRI or something of that sort for everyday help. And/or finding a better job. Using coke or vic every day is a big no no, they can be used occasionally but need to be spaced out by a few days *at least*.

If an SSRI isn't enough then find more substitutes so you're on something different every day. Each substance taxes a certain part of the body (kidney, heart, liver etc) so the key is to rotate each day and be aware of side effects and such. For instance Kava kava is legal and does wonders for some people, but its heavy on the liver, so you'd want to avoid drinking alcohol while on it and whatever you take the next day better not be a liver taxer.

highthief

I have no advice to offer as it is apparent that neither of you would listen.

Carry on.

BTW: The whole anonymous post thing is silly. It's a message board, it is effectively anonymous.

__________________
Si vis pacem parabellum.

Xerxys

OMG thank you so much, Dude, I swear what I feel for you right now, at this minute at this time in my life is true LOVE!!!!!

Cynthetiq

---

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__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Anonymous Member

Multiyear drug user here again

Nice rationalization. But sorry, that smells like a big super duper helping of bullshit.

It doesn't matter how much you are doing, it matters *WHY* you are doing it. If you aren't getting high, then why are you doing it? Seriously why waste it and just wait until the weekend when you can snort up the whole gram? As far as any addict will tell you, that little bump you do, yeah that's getting high.

You aren't doing it for enjoyment but because of escapism, to escape the pitiful life of pain you seem to feel you have.

You hate your life because you pay your own rent or bills? Is that really your answer? Because you've got a long period of hating life coming up for about the rest of your life, bills don't stop until you're dead. After you're dead they still keep coming until someone notifies the collector that you're dead and even then they'll still come.

You?re Dead? That Won?t Stop the Debt Collector - Companies * US * News * Story - CNBC.com

As a person who spent over many years doing exactly what you're talking about doing and rationalizing it exactly like you're doing, maybe you should read what you're actually writing.

I hated life. I couldn't wait to die. Today, I still feel some of that, but not with the same vigor and anguish. There are parts of my life that I hate, they suck. It's not much different than anyone else's part of life. I work at it every day to make sure that I hate it less than I love it. It has taken me long years of working on it every single mother fucking day to beat that feeling down into something that is manageable so that I no longer think about stepping off the sidewalk to allow the large vehicle passing by to squash whatever life I have out of my shell. I work on it on a daily basis. You should too.