Please help: Boyfriend uses coke daily, plans to start using Vicodin daily - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Anonymous Member · 03-04-2009, 09:58 PM

First I want to thank you all. Since I posted, I think this thread has gone in a much more productive direction than "ditch this loser, drugs are bad". And I have to apologize, to my girlfriend. That post was an undeserved attack and too abrasive. But understand, this is part of a very long ongoing conversation.

See, my problem is I've heard it all before. I've heard all the stories. I've been to shrinks. They can't help me. I already know what my problem is, I hate working, and as I'm well aware, such is life. There is only one solution to that, and believe it or not I am actually trying to avoid it. I've been on SSRIs and Wellbutrin. Not only do they all have various bad side effects, they basically act by numbing you to life, and quite frankly, I'd rather be dead. Or at least on better drugs.

I have plenty of experience with hydrocodone, oxycodone, hydromorphone, and oxymorphone. I have yet to get addicted. I haven't taken any in over a month, and not for a month before that time. In fact, I didn't even say I intended to do it daily (I don't do or intend to do coke daily either). I just meant I wanted some and intended to take it when work gets especially stressful. Some people smoke weed for stress. I smoke my share of weed too but it doesn't work as a stress reliever for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dippin

First of all, there is really no way to compare amounts of cocaine consumed with coca chewing. Cocaine content in leaves is around 1%, and bioavailability of cocaine through chewing is about 1/3, as opposed to over 60% from cocaine. So 50mg (assuming it is somewhere close to pure) is equal to chewing about 1 kilogram of leaves, which is order of magnitudes more than the usual.

Bro, you might want to check up on your math. Assuming 1% cocaine by mass and 33% vs. 60% bioavailability translates to 0.050g / (0.01*0.33/0.60)=9 GRAMS of leaves, not kilograms. So maybe I exaggerated a little bit, but there's a Big difference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by guccilvr

It gives an opiate effect similar to heroin if you do it right. Which is why when you step out of doing them as prescribed (any opiate derivative) it's extremely hard to quit. The only thing you are doing is making yourself dependent on a drug and killing your liver from the APAP.

That's why God gave us the cold water and acid-base extractions. Besides, it's not like I was ever intending to pop 10 a day, more like 1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anonymous Member

It doesn't matter how much you are doing, it matters *WHY* you are doing it. If you aren't getting high, then why are you doing it? Seriously why waste it and just wait until the weekend when you can snort up the whole gram? As far as any addict will tell you, that little bump you do, yeah that's getting high.

I already explained why I do it. Because it gives me an hour's worth of an energy boost and focus without a jittery crash like from caffeine. It helps me get through my day. And I can always buy more. It's not like I lack for the money. I just realize there are limits. That brings up the idea of maybe I can get a less stressful job with lower pay. Well maybe I will. But then I'll just be depressed over my wasted potential.

Quote:

You aren't doing it for enjoyment but because of escapism, to escape the pitiful life of pain you seem to feel you have.

You hate your life because you pay your own rent or bills? Is that really your answer? Because you've got a long period of hating life coming up for about the rest of your life, bills don't stop until you're dead. After you're dead they still keep coming until someone notifies the collector that you're dead and even then they'll still come.

You?re Dead? That Won?t Stop the Debt Collector - Companies * US * News * Story - CNBC.com

Tell me about it! This is precisely why I'm depressed. What are the shrinks going to do about it? Tell me I should be enjoying it? Put me on some weak antidepressants with horrible side effects? No thanks, I've been down that road.

Quote:

As a person who spent over many years doing exactly what you're talking about doing and rationalizing it exactly like you're doing, maybe you should read what you're actually writing.

I hated life. I couldn't wait to die. Today, I still feel some of that, but not with the same vigor and anguish. There are parts of my life that I hate, they suck. It's not much different than anyone else's part of life. I work at it every day to make sure that I hate it less than I love it. It has taken me long years of working on it every single mother fucking day to beat that feeling down into something that is manageable so that I no longer think about stepping off the sidewalk to allow the large vehicle passing by to squash whatever life I have out of my shell. I work on it on a daily basis. You should too.

I do! I work 40+ hours a week. I pay all my bills on time. I have perfect credit and very little debt. All I'm saying is I don't think it's such a horrible sin to have a few chemical helpers along the way and I'm tired of being judged and criticized before the fact.

ngdawg · 03-04-2009, 10:29 PM

He said work AT it. Not do a job.
Want an energy boost?

I still call bullshit on your excuses but who the hell cares....you're an adult, you have to live or die by your own decisions.

dippin · 03-04-2009, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anonymous Member

Bro, you might want to check up on your math. Assuming 1% cocaine by mass and 33% vs. 60% bioavailability translates to 0.050g / (0.01*0.33/0.60)=9 GRAMS of leaves, not kilograms. So maybe I exaggerated a little bit, but there's a Big difference.

Sorry, it wasnt so much a problem of math as one of metric, but the point remains.

The points, however, remain.
Especially with regards to the relationship.

Oh, and this is pretty much an anonymous internet forum, and you and your girlfriend are using the anonymous feature on top of that. We can't know the truth and so discussing the particulars of the drug use, if its every day or not, if she is exaggerating or not, is basically meaningless. What is significant is that you both obviously have pretty different views of your usage, regardless of the actual amount. And that there is basically zero respect left in the relationship. At this point, the drug use is really secondary (although the lengths you go to justify it is telling, and really not at all convincing. Paying rent and hating your job aren't exactly rare occurrences).

Glory's Sun · 03-05-2009, 04:57 AM

Ok here's the skinny..

People can sit there and say "I only plan on doing a little bit" or "I only plan on doing 1 a day, not 10", but in the end it's all playing with fire. I said the same fucking shit. Said it every goddamn day that I put something up my nose or crushed the pills. "It's no big deal, I'm just in a bad mood" "I need a pick me up" in the end it was all bullshit. So while a person can say they can handle their shit and say they don't "plan" on going crazy with anything.. I'm living proof that even the best of us get caught up in it eventually.

So keep telling yourself that you're ok.. you'll find yourself on the ending of a Requiem movie sooner or later.

Keep saying the doctors don't know what's wrong or the pills don't work.. maybe..just maybe..it's you who doesn't want them to work because you've found a bandaid that suits your needs a little better.

Keep saying you don't want the anti-depressants because they have horrible side effects.. I mean that yayo has much better side effects after all right?

Keep telling yourself you're ok. After all, you're in complete control. Right?

Anonymous Member · 03-05-2009, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anonymous Member

First I want to thank you all. Since I posted, I think this thread has gone in a much more productive direction than "ditch this loser, drugs are bad". And I have to apologize, to my girlfriend. That post was an undeserved attack and too abrasive. But understand, this is part of a very long ongoing conversation.

See, my problem is I've heard it all before. I've heard all the stories. I've been to shrinks. They can't help me. I already know what my problem is, I hate working, and as I'm well aware, such is life. There is only one solution to that, and believe it or not I am actually trying to avoid it. I've been on SSRIs and Wellbutrin. Not only do they all have various bad side effects, they basically act by numbing you to life, and quite frankly, I'd rather be dead. Or at least on better drugs.

I have plenty of experience with hydrocodone, oxycodone, hydromorphone, and oxymorphone. I have yet to get addicted. I haven't taken any in over a month, and not for a month before that time. In fact, I didn't even say I intended to do it daily (I don't do or intend to do coke daily either). I just meant I wanted some and intended to take it when work gets especially stressful. Some people smoke weed for stress. I smoke my share of weed too but it doesn't work as a stress reliever for me.

I already explained why I do it. Because it gives me an hour's worth of an energy boost and focus without a jittery crash like from caffeine. It helps me get through my day. And I can always buy more. It's not like I lack for the money. I just realize there are limits. That brings up the idea of maybe I can get a less stressful job with lower pay. Well maybe I will. But then I'll just be depressed over my wasted potential.

Tell me about it! This is precisely why I'm depressed. What are the shrinks going to do about it? Tell me I should be enjoying it? Put me on some weak antidepressants with horrible side effects? No thanks, I've been down that road.

I do! I work 40+ hours a week. I pay all my bills on time. I have perfect credit and very little debt. All I'm saying is I don't think it's such a horrible sin to have a few chemical helpers along the way and I'm tired of being judged and criticized before the fact.

Multi year drug user here

I'm not judging you. I'm trying to impart on you a little wisdom so that hopefully you take a different path.

I'm with you with the shrinks. But you're statement is the right one with that. They *CAN'T* help you. Only you can help you can and they can guide you in directions of directing you on a path of discovery. I work hard at it. I see someone twice a week and sometimes I'm a complete wreck afterward because of some simple revelation like I don't like a certain situation and as corny as it sounds, as we talk we discover a connection to something in childhood or teens that just sucked. My therapist couldn't tell me these things, only I can tell me these things.

I also have to say, if you aren't telling them the truth and you aren't being honest with your feelings and working at it, it's like you say a waste of time.

I'm not a fan of the prescriptions of other doctors, so I self medicated. It started like you, just a little to get me by. If I'm going to take something on a daily basis why not take my own drug of choice? Why pay into the whole system since I'm doing a drug daily and I'm paying the Man while doing it?

I don't like the grind either. I still don't. When I look back at all the money I've spent on drugs and alcohol all to give me that little bit of relief, I could have taken off at least 1-2 years of work and still pay all my bills. I could hav pursued other things or just sat back and took the time off and not been stressed or upset about anything.

Reread your statements. As I read it, I see the addict in me saying those same things, convincing my friends and others, but mostly myself.

Cynosure · 03-05-2009, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anonymous Member

I don't want to turn this into a public drama but...

Hey, where there's habitual cocaine and Vicodin use, there's drama. And it almost always, eventually, spills out into the public.

Turpis · 03-08-2009, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ngdawg

Want an energy boost?

just as bad as coke, not addictive you say? tell that to the guys you always see with 100's of them in the back of their car. at least you know coke started out as a plant. this, this stuff is just gross.

MacGuyver · 03-09-2009, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turpis

just as bad as coke, not addictive you say? tell that to the guys you always see with 100's of them in the back of their car. at least you know coke started out as a plant. this, this stuff is just gross.

I agree, but gross as it is, this shit isn't illegal.

Jinn · 03-09-2009, 12:25 PM

Quote:

See, my problem is I've heard it all before. I've heard all the stories. I've been to shrinks. They can't help me. I already know what my problem is, I hate working, and as I'm well aware, such is life. There is only one solution to that, and believe it or not I am actually trying to avoid it. I've been on SSRIs and Wellbutrin. Not only do they all have various bad side effects, they basically act by numbing you to life, and quite frankly, I'd rather be dead. Or at least on better drugs.

This is the issue you SHOULD be dealing with, not taking cocaine to 'solve'. You're trying to patch your leaking tire with fix-a-flat and the real issue is you need a whole new tire.

It takes longer to get a new tire, and it sure as hell isn't as easy as pumping the tire up with more foamy shit. But if you keep fix-a-flating your tire, it soon becomes a bald tire, then a rim with rubber shredded and thrown everywhere, and then a rim sparking as it grinds along the asphalt. Keep driving on the rim and you're fucking dead. Game over.

Everyone says they 'hate working,' but not in the sense you intend. Find things that help you relax after work; dancing, theatre, TV, video games. Find ways to educate yourself - start saving your cocaine money ($$$) for EDUCATION, and enroll in a community college or University. Get a degree, and get a job that's not just a job. A 'career' might be a drag every once and a while, but it might be something you can actually enjoy 9 days out of 10.

Life is hell for everyone who HAS to work to make it by, who HAS to put up with asshole bosses and customers just to put food on table. It's those of us who can suck it up and educate ourselves that escape the endless loop of pain known as 'jobs'. People underestimate their 'jobs', even though they're spending 40, 50 even 60 hours a week there. How can that NOT affect your perception of other people, your perception of life, or your perception of your worth? Re-consider your career choices, man.

Cynthetiq · 03-15-2009, 09:03 AM

Since anonymous BF equated his usage to the amount found in coca leaves when I found this tidbit in today's NYTimes I had to post it here.

anon BF, maybe you'll read this and think, "See!!! See!!!! I told you, they aren't bad! The president Juan of Bolivia is advocating for them!"

but remember cocaine is not equal to coca leaves.

Quote:

View: Let Me Chew My Coca Leaves
Source: NYTimes
posted with the TFP thread generator

Let Me Chew My Coca Leaves
Op-Ed Contributor
Let Me Chew My Coca Leaves
By EVO MORALES AYMA

La Paz, Bolivia

THIS week in Vienna, a meeting of the United Nations Commission on Narcotic Drugs took place that will help shape international antidrug efforts for the next 10 years. I attended the meeting to reaffirm Bolivia’s commitment to this struggle but also to call for the reversal of a mistake made 48 years ago.

In 1961, the United Nations Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs placed the coca leaf in the same category with cocaine — thus promoting the false notion that the coca leaf is a narcotic — and ordered that “coca leaf chewing must be abolished within 25 years from the coming into force of this convention.” Bolivia signed the convention in 1976, during the brutal dictatorship of Col. Hugo Banzer, and the 25-year deadline expired in 2001.

So for the past eight years, the millions of us who maintain the traditional practice of chewing coca have been, according to the convention, criminals who violate international law. This is an unacceptable and absurd state of affairs for Bolivians and other Andean peoples.

Many plants have small quantities of various chemical compounds called alkaloids. One common alkaloid is caffeine, which is found in more than 50 varieties of plants, from coffee to cacao, and even in the flowers of orange and lemon trees. Excessive use of caffeine can cause nervousness, elevated pulse, insomnia and other unwanted effects.

Another common alkaloid is nicotine, found in the tobacco plant. Its consumption can lead to addiction, high blood pressure and cancer; smoking causes one in five deaths in the United States. Some alkaloids have important medicinal qualities. Quinine, for example, the first known treatment for malaria, was discovered by the Quechua Indians of Peru in the bark of the cinchona tree.

The coca leaf also has alkaloids; the one that concerns antidrug officials is the cocaine alkaloid, which amounts to less than one-tenth of a percent of the leaf. But as the above examples show, that a plant, leaf or flower contains a minimal amount of alkaloids does not make it a narcotic. To be made into a narcotic, alkaloids must typically be extracted, concentrated and in many cases processed chemically. What is absurd about the 1961 convention is that it considers the coca leaf in its natural, unaltered state to be a narcotic. The paste or the concentrate that is extracted from the coca leaf, commonly known as cocaine, is indeed a narcotic, but the plant itself is not.

Why is Bolivia so concerned with the coca leaf? Because it is an important symbol of the history and identity of the indigenous cultures of the Andes.

The custom of chewing coca leaves has existed in the Andean region of South America since at least 3000 B.C. It helps mitigate the sensation of hunger, offers energy during long days of labor and helps counter altitude sickness. Unlike nicotine or caffeine, it causes no harm to human health nor addiction or altered state, and it is effective in the struggle against obesity, a major problem in many modern societies.

Today, millions of people chew coca in Bolivia, Colombia, Peru and northern Argentina and Chile. The coca leaf continues to have ritual, religious and cultural significance that transcends indigenous cultures and encompasses the mestizo population.

Mistakes are an unavoidable part of human history, but sometimes we have the opportunity to correct them. It is time for the international community to reverse its misguided policy toward the coca leaf.

Evo Morales Ayma is the president of Bolivia.

MSD · 03-18-2009, 03:31 PM

-+-{Important TFP Staff Message}-+-
This thread is over.

03-04-2009, 10:29 PM	#42 (permalink)
ngdawg peekaboo Location: on the back, bitch	He said work AT it. Not do a job. Want an energy boost? I still call bullshit on your excuses but who the hell cares....you're an adult, you have to live or die by your own decisions. __________________ Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

03-05-2009, 04:57 AM	#44 (permalink)
Glory's Sun Registered User	Ok here's the skinny.. People can sit there and say "I only plan on doing a little bit" or "I only plan on doing 1 a day, not 10", but in the end it's all playing with fire. I said the same fucking shit. Said it every goddamn day that I put something up my nose or crushed the pills. "It's no big deal, I'm just in a bad mood" "I need a pick me up" in the end it was all bullshit. So while a person can say they can handle their shit and say they don't "plan" on going crazy with anything.. I'm living proof that even the best of us get caught up in it eventually. So keep telling yourself that you're ok.. you'll find yourself on the ending of a Requiem movie sooner or later. Keep saying the doctors don't know what's wrong or the pills don't work.. maybe..just maybe..it's you who doesn't want them to work because you've found a bandaid that suits your needs a little better. Keep saying you don't want the anti-depressants because they have horrible side effects.. I mean that yayo has much better side effects after all right? Keep telling yourself you're ok. After all, you're in complete control. Right?