Strange Famous

I think it is only appropriate to make a separate thread about this, so as not to not fill the thread about which MMA fighter will win which brawl with comments about its validity as a sport

I will make the following points

1 - To strike a man when he is down is utterly cowardly. Any person who chooses to compete in a sport where a key factor is the striking of a fallen man fundamentally has an element of cowardice in his personality. The rule of MMA encourage cowardice

Many of the people who will comment on this are men, who were once boys, and as a kid at school or as a man in life - we probably have all been in some kind of fight or other. Assuming you arent fighting for your life - if you knock a man down, you let him get up and fight. When he says down the fight is over. Full stop. The rules of MMA are a direct affront to the basic concepts of sport and masculinity. You dont hit a man that is down, you dont hit a man in the back. Full stop.

2 - Wrestling requires some but little skill. If you look at MMA records even the best fighters have losses... thats because every MMA fight is a lottery. You slip up, or get taken down, and someone has you in a position to break your arm in a second. You either submit, or cant carry on anyway. MMA is about as fair judge of supremacy as the average brawl in a pub car park . One mistake and the fights over thats it. Anyone with a basic level of toughness and strength could be a MMA champion after 2 months of training

3 - MMA has no history. Boxing goes back to men like James Figg, Tom Cribb, Jem Mace (and if you dont know who they are you dont know much about combat sports in general)... the holder of the world championship may be involved in alphabet politics, but they also inherit a title that can be best described as "The Emperor of Masculinity". Boxing has produced Marciano, Pep, Ali, Louis, Johnson, Leonard, Robinson, Sullivan, Mace, Chazev, Foreman, Dempsey, Wilde, Holmes, Liston, Tyson... MMA has names like Graycie, Silva, Liddell...

Yeah, exactly. Who?

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Daniel_

I don't get it myself.

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silent_jay

3 - MMA has no history. Boxing goes back to men like James Figg, Tom Cribb, Jem Mace (and if you dont know who they are you dont know much about combat sports in general)... the holder of the world championship may be involved in alphabet politics, but they also inherit a title that can be best described as "The Emperor of Masculinity". Boxing has produced Marciano, Pep, Ali, Louis, Johnson, Leonard, Robinson, Sullivan, Mace, Chazev, Foreman, Dempsey, Wilde, Holmes, Liston, Tyson... MMA has names like Graycie, Silva, Liddell...

Yeah, exactly. Who?[/QUOTE]
Nope I have no ide who they are and guess what, I know a hell of a lot more about combat sports than someone who didn't even know how long an MMA fight was, or someone who thinks wrestling takes little skill. As for this "The Emperor of Masculinity" never heard a boxer use a title like that, guess he didn't want to sound like he likes to suck cock, because to me that title screams cocksucker.

Nice thread though, at least all you ignorance can shine in one spot now for all to see, should be a funny thread, I bet it gets HOF worthy rather quickly.

Oh yeah, didn't you start another thread like this before and just regurgitate the same arguments you make, I remember that rather feminine "The Emperor of Masculinity" thing being mentioned, still sounds like the title of someone who loves the cock.

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Mojo_PeiPei

Here we go again.

It isn't cowardice. MMA incorporates all forms of martial arts, hence grappling takes things to the ground, hence fighters take damage on the ground. They can defend it, it's not like they are getting smoked in a completely defenseless position. If you were not so ignorant about the sport you would know that a lot of fighters fight off their back, its their game plan.

We all know you jock boxing, the refs in MMA are actually there to help fighters. Instead of me getting knocked retarded and getting punch drunk as shit from standing 8 counts, the second I catch a flash knockout the ref is in the scrap and stopping the fight.

False, stupid, and completely ignorant point.


Every MMA fight is a lottery? It's called a punchers chance. Take a look at guys like Mike Brown, Fedor, or Anderson Silva who haven't lost in years. GSP has avenged in devastating fashion his two losses.

Just because MMA doesn't feed cans to fighters like in boxing, just because they don't protect fighters, doesn't mean it's a lottery. There is always a punchers chance like in boxing ala Douglas, Pavlic, Rahman, and Tarver.

Everything has to have it's start. You're talking shit about a sport that started less than 20 years ago and has already surpassed boxing in popularity.

Boxing is a joke, you have no centralized system, no unified titles. You have corruption, and you protect your fighters. Promoters ruined your sport and your time is passed, you have no stable for the future.

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m0rpheus

Starting this thread again eh? For a guy who hates MMA you spend alot of time on it. Fine. I'll bite.

THIS IS WRONG FULL FUCKING STOP and as long as you don't get the fact that there is a difference between a downed opponent and a defenseless opponent. Ask a BJJ martial artist if he wants to be on his back. Royce Gracie won many of his fights on his back.
Apparently it's more manly to hit a guy thats already punchdrunk but still standing.

How many of the great boxers have a loss or two in their carreer? Does that mean that boxing is a lottery too since everyone has a puncher's chance?
MMA is hardly a "lottery". Part of what has made Georges St. Pierre so successfull is that Greg Jackson is known as one of the best cornermen in MMA. He and GSP are known for coming up with a plan to defeat each and every opponents and the result has been GSP's dominance of the welterweight division. Yes he has two losses on his record but he has done what a true champion does. Take his losses, learn from them and use them to make him a better fighter.
If you want an undefeated fighter.

Lyoto Machida.
Current Light Heavyweight Champion.
Professional Record
15 wins - 0 Losses

There is nothing lucky about why Lyoto has been dominant in every fight he's been in.
First - He uses a very unorthodox style combining Shotokan Karate, Sumo, and Brazilian Jui-Jitsu.
Second - He's fast and very very hard to hit. While he may not have the most powerful punches he was very accurate strikes.
Third - He trains with the best. He trains with Anderson Silva. One of the best fighters in the world.

Yes Boxing has more history. You'd have to be an idiot to argue that. MMA doesn't have the history that Boxing does but it's gaining it.
I looked up the current boxing champions. How many names did I know on the current list of the "best in the world"? Two. I've heard of the Klitschkos but the truth is that I couldn't pick either of them out of a lineup.
MMA's growing and moving more and more into the mainstream. Case in point, Georges St. Pierre is appearing Gatorade's most recent ad campain here in Canada as well as being named Sportsnet (one of the national tv sports channels) Canadian Athlete of the Year. GSP is becoming one of the most well known atheletes in Canada. Many people who have never watched an MMA fight in their lives know who Georges St. Pierre is.
Another example. One of UFC's biggest sponser a few years ago, Mickey's Malt Liquor. UFC's sponsers now? Anheuser-Busch. Can't get much more mainstream than Bud.

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silent_jay

Mojo you missed the best part of the thread:
I say get your ass to a gym SF and prove this point, I'd like to see you fight let's say Bisping, simply because he's British and it would be close travel time, we'll give you two months to train, then 5 seconds to get your ass knocked out.

SF please learn about a topic before you make a thread where you're going to look foolish, as I said before you're a good guy and I usually agree with you on most things, but on this you're so off it isn't funny.

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Mojo_PeiPei

I think I was so stunned that somebody could actually make such a stupid comment that I blanked it.

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silent_jay

LOL, yeah I had to rethink my answer to clean it up a little, I still say get SF in a gym for 2 months then throw him in a cage with some nobody British MMA fighter and watch hilarity ensue, I bet he cries like a guy on his first night in prison.haha

Is it too early to nominate this thread for the Hall of Fame? I have a feeling by tomorrow it'll be well worthy of it.

---------- Post added at 06:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:34 PM ----------

It's almost like he gets knocked around in one thread, and doesn't learn, so he makes a totally separate thread to showcase that he really knows nothing about the sport, then gets knocked around in it again, fuck if this were boxing SF would be so punch drunk from standing 8 counts he'd think he's Dame Vera Lynn.

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Charlatan

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m0rpheus

I will give SF this. Boxing is indeed more dangerous than MMA to those competing in it.

http://www.jssm.org/combat/1/18/v5combat-18.pdf

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silent_jay

NO worries Charlatan, I was just being a smartass, SF and I have a good relationship for being smartasses to each other(I think) so we're usually just playing around, we'll keep it on topic, but if it gets good enough can we please HOF this bad boy

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FuglyStick

Is it a sport? More so than say, gymnastics, figure skating, diving, or any other "sport" which determines the winner based on the scoring of a panel of judges.

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silent_jay

If MMA isn't a sport, then where does that leave boxing? If MMA isn't a sport then certainly boxing isn't either, as all you have to do is punch, duck, slide, repeat....it's like instructions on a shampoo bottle.

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Jetée

To keep this short, I will only describe how I, among likeminded others, discern the differences between what some consider to be "sport", and what others call "acquired skill (competitions)".

Sports, as I see it, is a "game" in which there is a contest among players that should provide both a winner and a loser. Also to be mentioned, the clash between contestants must be tangible in some form or another, thereby adding a verifiable element of defense/resistance to the feats of athletics. This way, there can be debate as to whether or not the one one prevailed won because of meirts, skill, tactics and/or luck, because "sports" combines all those factors in the determination of a true winner, not just one.

So, by my technical definition above, I'll elaborate simply and say that the mixed martial arts arena is indeed a sport. It matters not what why some may see the rules' allowance and tactics of the sport as "cowardly or cheap", or that it has no history (it actually, indeed, has a richer history before the UFC, but because of how it arose, most of the details are eschewed due to its "subdued nature" in comparison to the original no holds-barred test of the ultimate warrior). MMA was a ground-zero sport less than two decades ago, and it is a rapidly-rising "child" sport in the world media awareness. Some need to accept the facts: sports are sports no matter how much you disagree/despise the tactics employed to win within the scope of the game.

Also, I wanted to add that I don't consider these activites to be sports either, (although I do acknowledge the incredible degree of skill the participant/athlete needs to become a top professional in their field):

Golf is not a sport. It is a competition against nature and taxation to be the one person with the lowest score at the end of regulation. Yes, you do have competitor's in the mix, but they do not "actively" affect your game, nor do they pose any sort of hindrance to your shots/puts, so the "sport" of golf is more akin to a single gathering of competitors participating in an "acquired skills activity".

NASCAR/Indy/F1/Rally/Motor-racing is not a sport either. It is teetering on my definition above, but it is more to do with employed strategies of the machine in which you are occupying, and having to fend off of the possibility that you can collide disastrously with your fellow competitors. There is no "active" form of defense allowed in the racing, save for hogging the road to keep a rival from passing you, or just maintaining your lead long enough to pull off a good showing. Another "acquired skill" competition.

Card games are not sports. Billiards and bowling are not sports. Competitions with destroying balls, not so much your opponent. Swimming competitions are not sports. Neither is gymnastics. The last two are more "athletic showcasing", but there is "colliding competitiveness" to them, other than beating a certain score/time that you have knowledge to reach. Fishing is a great activity, but again, your only competition is nature.


Basketball, baseball, cricket, football, futbol (soccer), tennis, ping-pong, field hockey, real hockey, boxing, MMA, are all sports because they force competition between men, hand-to-hand, face-to-face, and whoever doesn't show up, loses. This is what I what I typify as being able to be called a true sport; the ability to face mutable adversary, adjust to it, and learn to overcome it over the course of the game. I guess it's more the presence of a "real human defense factor", but it sounds much better the way it is expressed above. Jai-Alai is a sport to a lesser extent, a "fringe" sport you can say, but there is a discernable level of defense one can mount to be a world-class ball-crusher in that field.

post-script: goldarnit, slippy sam. my post above is anything but "short". sorry for the superfluous info and examples guys.

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dlish

if feeding christians to the lions was a sport, why wouldnt MMA be a sport?

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silent_jay

Jesus fuck this gave me one hell of a chuckle, I never thought of that, nice one dlish.

Jetée, that's keeping it short, I want to read something by you when you actually put a lot of thought into it, seriously though, I bet it would be good.

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Jetée

Yeah, I seriously thought it was going to be an opening headline, and two small descritive paragraphs of what I define a "sport" vs. "acquired skill" to be, but I ended up getting too carried away with examples of the like. Haha.

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As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

silent_jay

It's easy to get carried away, the logic in the OP is so flawed that examples pop into your head and you're not even looking for any more because what you typed already proved your point. I know even now I can still think of more examples, but I reckon I'll wait and see where this thread is by tomorrow morning.....hopefully HOF bound

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docbungle

Strange, wtf?

Do we really have to do this again?

Being on your back in an INTEGRAL part of MMA. Until you understand this FUNDAMENTAL truth, don't bother lecturing us on cowardice vs. "manliness." You simply refuse to understand the sport.

Wrestling takes TONS of skill. And MMA fights are no more a lottery than boxing matches are. There are no reigning champions in lotteries. The same person doesn't win the lottery over and over again. Two people are going at it using their wits and skills. More often that not, the best fighters rise to the top of the heap. That's called fighting. It's a sport. Look it up.

Your statement that "MMA has no history" is meaningless. It hasn't been popular for as long as boxing has, for one thing, but once it has, then I guess it will have some history. Are you seriously arguing against something's validity simply because it hasn't been popular for long enough? What about the recession? Is that real? How long has it been going now? Long enough to be considered real?

You can keep your boxing history, because that's all it is: ancient history. The heyday of boxing is over, all the stars are gone, the majority of quality fighters are gone (there are a few shining exceptions, of course), and the old pay-per-view king has been replaced with a newer, more talented, more exciting champion: MMA. That's just the way it is.

What really bugs me about your confused stance is this: I enjoy boxing, and watch it often, and really wish there were more interesting fights out there. Fact is, there just aren't nearly as many as in MMA. MMA is STACKED with good fighters and good fights.

And training for two months won't even get you a second look on The Ultimate Fighter tryouts, much less a win in the octagon/ring. Ray Mercer should have taught you that.

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silent_jay

Why did a new thread get started, could have just used the old one SF used the same arguments back in 2007, so no real need for a new thread, only disserence is the old one is called 'boxing vs. MMA', but still the same words used, 'cowardly, "The Emperor of Masculinity", fringe sport, tomato can opponebts, really no need or a new thread for the same old debate:
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/tilted-...ma-debate.html

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Strange Famous

MMA certainly hasnt surpassed boxing in terms of popularity. It maybe be popular amongst college aged men, but boxing has a much wider fanbase.

Boxing is the ultimate test of strength, bravery, skill and manliness. Two men pit themselves against each other in an honourable and scientific contest of toughness, strength and agility.

Compare this great spectacle to what we see in the average MMA fight.

Two men attempting to throttle each other or else trip a man up and then punch and kick him while he is defenseless on the floor. MMA requires little real skill. I see people actually talking about a guy having a black belt as if it was some kind of great achievment! there are 15 year old girls who have blackbelts in karate!

Look at the men who are being quoted as the heroes of MMA. George St Pierre, a man who has to cover himself in baby oil and grease before each fight so that the opponent cant get hold of him...because MMA doesnt have a propper governing body, but is governed by the promotor himself the "big stars" are allowed to get away with this kind of thing to help bulk up their records.

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"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

BurntToast

This topic should be merged with the "boxing vs. mma" debate

In point #3 of the OP he shows he is directly comparing MMA to boxing and that is his reason for beating this dead horse... I mean starting this new topic.

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Glory's Sun

This is a pointless argument boys. Anyone who refuses to acknowledge a difference between a 'downed' opponent and a 'defenseless' opponent is simply not going to understand MMA.

Anyone who uses boxing as their example of bravery and skill simply will not ever understand MMA. MMA uses a multitude of skill and strengths while boxing uses. 2. move and punch. But, like I said, there's no point in arguing.

and thirdly, anyone who thinks that 2 months of training will create a belt around their waist, is probably on the best damn acid I've never had, and I'm jealous. If anyone who trained for 2 months would wear a belt, then we'd have thousands of ex-champions. Obviously, boxing requires training for years and years to become a champion but other sport does not. Obviously MMA is a just a cake walk that requires little dedication, even less skill, and even less if any attention.

So here's what I would do, and suggest to the rest of you: Don't feed the boxing troll. We can obviously support that boxing requires skill and strength but the troll cannot and has not ever in the past. We'd all just be better off ignoring this thread and letting it die into oblivion where it belongs.

highthief

I don't really want to feed Strange's weird schizophrenic fantasies, however, what I find interesting in respect of the whole "any tough guy could be an MMA champ in no time" statement, I was watching an old episode of Pros vs. Joes and they had Randy Couture on facing 3 Joes in quick succession. No striking was allowed, Couture fought each for a single 5 minute round. Whichever Joe tapped out least often was the winner. Couture, who is not a submission specialist, made each Joe tap out between 5 and 7 times within the 5 minute round. The guy who tapped out least (5 times) was an Army close combat instructor.

So there's a great example of a "tough guy" who has been training in various combat disciplines - including boxing, judo, karate, etc - for a number of years who still was forced to tap out repeatedly facing an MMA guy not reknowned for his submission skills.

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Baraka_Guru

How can someone go on about ultimate tests of strength, bravery, skill and manliness, and honourable and scientific contests of toughness, strength and agility, and yet say something like this?
(You do know that 15-year-old girls are trained boxers too, right? And, hey, did you hear the recent new about the 16-year-old who sailed solo around the world? It's amazing what one can do with strength, bravery, and skill.)

I see nothing wrong with being a boxing fanboy, but when you let it blind you to the understanding of other martial arts, then you will miss out on the reality of other forms of combat training.

My SO earned her brown belt (one rank below brown) when she was a teenager. I have little doubt that she could knock just about anyone on their ass if she wanted to, male or female. She is strong, quick, and skilled, and it is tempered with an uncanny discipline. I would say that she is as strong as many men.

If you think karate training can simply be passed off as something that "even grlz cn do!" then you have little hope of understanding any martial art outside of boxing. Sure, you can earn a black belt in 2 years if you wanted to, but you can only do this at the cost of an unwavering dedication to rigourous training. The same can be said for becoming a master of yoga. Take a closer look sometime at what these disciplines are capable of accomplishing. They're nothing to scoff at. I've seen pictures of 70-year-old men literally bending over backwards.

This whole MMA vs. boxing debate is a bit off for me anyway. We are talking about sport, right? Most sports consider contact, fighting, or other forms of aggression as justification for penalization if not disqualification or suspension, if not banning. What does that say about fighting as sport? To me, it says that there is little difference, in the grand scheme of things, between boxing and MMA when considering the viability of either activity as being a "sport."

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silent_jay

Proof? Or is this jujst more of that I'll throw shit at the wall and see what sticks?

Agility? They fuckin stand there and throw punches, what's agile about that?


Still clueless about the rules eh? You don't kick a downed opponent, but then again if you actually weren't so ignorant and uninformed on the topic yo'd know that.
I have a friend who is a black belt as well his sister is a black belt, he got his at 15, her at 17 I believe, I'd love to see you tell her that is wasn't a great achievement, as I watch her kick your head off your shoulders.

You sure you're not BJ Penn? He whines the same way youy do about this. Before each fight? It was during ONE fight he ws accused of this, but please SF don't let facts get in the way of your delusional arguments.
Not like boxers don't fight pieces of drift to get to 30-0 now do they SF, but they're brave and manly for doing this.

You've got some fucked up vision of what manliness is, it would be funny as shit, well it is funny as shit, but also sad that you're this delusional about what it means to be a man.

Oh yeah, the offer still stands, get your lump intoa gym for 2 months then find an MMA fighter to twist you about until you cry like a little girl. You said it could happen SF, unless it was all bullshit like your posts in the last 2 threads. I doubt you'll do it, you worry about Lesnars heart, I reckon you'd stroke out on the way to the gym.

---------- Post added at 09:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:39 AM ----------

Well then what fuckin skill does boxing require? As I said before, punch, duck, repeat, like shampoo instructions. Also if it requires so little skill it should be nothing then for you to hit the gym and be a champ in 2 months like you said, but I suspect you're talking out your ass, as most people do who've never done anything.

---------- Post added at 09:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:41 AM ----------

I'll take some of that acid please? Based on posts in this threads it must be fucking phenomenal.

Best idea for this thread ever..........aside from my HOF suggestion....come on you know you want to, this shit is fucking hilarious.

---------- Post added at 09:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:47 AM ----------

Yep my thoughts as well, it's the same dead horse he's been beating for 2 years now with the same regurgitated arguments in every post, at first it was funny, now it's getting quite sad........but still fucking hilarious.

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m0rpheus

But that fanbase is shrinking and going to the UFC. The UFC had seven out of the top ten PPV Buyrates in 2008, boxing had two (wrestling had one).
1. Boxing: Oscar De La Hoya vs. Manny Pacquiao, Dec. 6, 1,250,000
2. UFC: Brock Lesnar vs. Randy Couture, Nov. 15, 1,010,000
3. Wrestling: WrestleMania, Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Paul "Big Show" Wight, March 30, 670,000
4. UFC: Georges St. Pierre vs. Jon Fitch/Lesnar vs. Heath Herring, Aug. 9, 625,000
5. UFC: Lesnar vs. Frank Mir, Feb. 2, 600,000
6. UFC: Quinton Jackson vs. Forrest Griffin, July 5, 540,000
7. UFC: St. Pierre vs. Matt Serra, April 19, 530,000
8. Boxing: Felix Trinidad vs. Roy Jones Jr., Jan. 19, 500,000
9. UFC: Chuck Liddell vs. Rashad Evans, Sept. 6, 480,000
10. UFC: B.J. Penn vs. Sean Sherk/Tito Ortiz vs. Lyoto Machida, May 24, 475,000
It's true that boxing had the biggest with the De La Hoya/Pacquiao event but the UFC wasn't far behind with the Lesnar/Couture event. Don't be surprised if the UFC tops the 2009 list with UFC 100 as early estimates put it at around 1.5 million buys.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, this is probably why this topic has come back up. SF sees the writing on the wall with the PPV buys and mainstream attention that UFC 100 got and this may be the last kick at the can for the old boxing fan to claim that boxing has more fans.

Clearly boxing has never involved spectacle. It's not like Tyson bit someone's ear or anything. Boxing is just as guilty of selling spectacle as the UFC.

If you think there is little skill you are so blinded by your love of boxing that it's rediculous. As far as your 15 year old girl comment, the only ones who are getting black belts are the ones who have committed themselves for years to mastering their martial art. The girls getting blackbelts aren't the one's doing it for fun at the local McDojo.

But while we are on the topic of achievements. Exactly what achievement do most boxers have? Other than paying for training and someone spotting potential?

Again you are wrong.
The UFC is governed by the ruling body of the state or province it holds it's events in. In the case above GSP wasn't "covered in baby oil and grease before each fight". There was a small amount of vaseline transfered from his face (for cuts) to his shoulders between rounds. It was spotted and wiped off. The Nevada State Athletic Commission reviewed the case and ruled it was accidental. This has happened with different fighters but never in as high profile a fight as Penn/St. Pierre 2. While unfortunate it has caused a rules change in that now only the state body's officials, who are not affiliated with either camp, may apply vaseline to cuts between rounds.
The only person who still believes in the "GSP Greases" theory is BJ Penn who is well known for making any excuse he can when he loses as to why that loss shouldn't count.
As far as feeding GSP cans to pad his record. That's just stupid.
Lets look at St. Pierre's UFC fighs shall we?
1st UFC Fight - Karo Parisian - Parisian was highly touted but never quite lived up to the hype.
2nd UFC Fight - Jay Hieron - Went on to have a decent career in the IFL.
3rd UFC Fight - Matt Hughes - Widely considered to be the best Welterweight (WW) of all time. (loss for St. Pierre)
4th UFC Fight - Jason Miller - Was a highly touted prospect that never really panned out.
5th UFC Fight - Frank Trigg - Constant WW contender who just couldn't win "the big one"
6th UFC Fight - Sean Sherk - More competitive at Lightweight. Not exactly a can though.

Up until this point GSP had been fighting up-and-comers or also rans (save Hughes) for the most part because lets face it GSP was an up-and-comer.

7th UFC Fight - BJ Penn - Former WW champion. Number One contenders match
8th UFC Fight - Matt Hughes - See above. GSP wins title.
9th UFC Fight - Matt Serra - Widely considered to be the biggest upset in UFC history (loss for GSP)
10th UFC Fight - Josh Koscheck - Constant top ten WW.
11th UFC Fight - Matt Hughes - See above. Rubber match win for GSP.
12th UFC Fight - Matt Serra - WW Champion
13th UFC Fight - Jon Fitch - Ranked (at the time) as the #2 WW in the world (now #3)
14th UFC Fight - BJ Penn - Lightweight champion. Former WW champion. BJ asked for the fight since their first fight was a very close win for GSP.
15th UFC Fight - Thiago Alves - Ranked as the #2 WW in the world.
I'm not exactly seeing any cans on this list. In fact of the 15 fights GSP has had in the UFC 10 of them have either been championship fights, fights against former champions or fights against future champions.
Yeah he faced a few cans in TKO (a minor org in Quebec) early in his carreer but since joining the UFC he has constantly faced up-an-comers (when he was one) and recently number one contenders.

As silent_jay stated, MMA isn't like boxing where they feed you 30 or so cans so you can get a good record. You get maybe a couple of cans in your first fight or two and thats it. From then on it is expected that you will face at minimum competition at your level (be that another up and comer or an established contender).

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"it never got weird enough for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

silent_jay

I'm still curious who said GSP was a 'hero of MMA'? Seems the only one saying that is SF. The people of Canada certainly love the man as he's a great athlete and Canadian to boot, but nope haven't read anyone here call him a 'hero of MMA'?

Seems there may be a wee bit of a reading comprehension problem, or a problem seeing the words as they're typed, all I see being called "The Emperor of Masculinity" are boxers, and I still say that sounds like the title of someone who loves the cock

---------- Post added at 01:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 PM ----------

I got to take guccilvr's advice and just ignore this thread, even though it is good for a chuckle, unless something even more dumb gets posted I'll be lurking this bad boy for the chuckles.

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

m0rpheus

Look at it this way.

Boxing is far more barbaric than MMA. In boxing the goal is to cause such severe head trauma to your opponent that he can not continue before a ten count.
Where in MMA as soon as your opponent can no longer intellegently defend himself or submits either by tapout or verbal submission the match is finished causing far less head trauma than boxing.

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"it never got weird enough for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

Toaster126

Pankration, the predecessor of modern MMA, was at the Olympic games in 648 BC. I don't post this to argue the points of this thread, because I see that is pointless because something can't be discussed between two people if only one person is listening. I post because I figure someone will find that interesting to learn more about, and appreciate it.

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"The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand)
"The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

Plan9

MMA: It's like boxing, with twice as many contact points.

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Zeraph

Anything televised is a sport and not a martial art. Any school that gives black belts to children is not teaching a martial art. They may be very talented athletes, I'm not putting down their achievements, but they are not martial artists.

Martial artists do not have rules. There is no cowardice or bravery in a martial art; only the dedicated study and pursuit on how to efficiently kill man.

m0rpheus

So MMA, the Original Olympic contact sport. Kinda

Lyoto Machida began training at 3, and recieved his black belt at 13 in Karate. Not a martial artist?

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"it never got weird enough for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

Plan9

...and what discipline are you studying, grasshopper?

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Zeraph

Doubt it, but it goes without saying that there is an exception to every rule.

Who ever said I was a martial artist?
I know my definition came off more elitist than I wanted it to be, but I couldn't think of a better way to say it.

Glory's Sun

uhhh Machida is one very.. BADASS dude.

I don't see how age plays a role in whether or not someone is a martial artist. Just because someone received a black belt by the age of 13 or 15, doesn't mean they just stop training at that point or can't kick a head off a shoulder. Often times, they continue to train that discipline and move to others as well.. hence the name Mixed Martial Arts.

Plan9

Zeraph: Holy misconceptions. Seems to be a theme tonight.

...

"Martial arts" like Kenpo karate, for example, are specific highly-refined tools that one human uses on another human to engage in combat. It's a system, not a person. It's like a language, not the tongue that speaks it.

Saying a fighting style defines a person is like saying I'm a Republican because I own guns.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

m0rpheus

At what age can someone master their art and become a "martial artist"?

Fedor Emelianeko became a Master of Sports in Sambo and Judo at 21, is he a martial artist?

Anderson Silva recieved his black belt in Tae kwan do at 18 after only four years. Martial Artist?

Royce Gracie recieved his black belt in BJJ at 18. Martial artist?

What age does someone have to be what age does someone have to be before they can get their black belt (or equivelent)?

ADDED
Actually many martial arts have rules for their competitions. Sambo has like five different rules sets depending on the competition.

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"it never got weird enough for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

Toaster126

To be fair, that list is full of prodigies, not to mention two sons of fighting system founders, who were literally training since they could walk.

__________________
"The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand)
"The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

Zeraph

The reason I doubt any children can be a martial artist is because its about 90% mental. They can become good athletes but they don't understand the life taking and philosophy behind it. Or I sure hope they don't, that'd be fucked up. Not to mention, I don't care how well a 13 year old masters the techniques, he doesn't have the muscle development to represent a black belt. Or again, if he did, that'd be bordering on child abuse. But its like asking when are you ready for marriage? No one can say one age (besides citing the law) just like no one can say what age one can become worldly enough to be a martial artist. I don't know his teacher, nor was I there, hence why I refrain from judging one way or the other, but I still doubt it.

Also, just because they teach karate or whatever doesn't mean its a martial art. Just because they call it so makes them wrong, not me. There are far more McDojos than there are real ones. Of course that doesn't mean one can't learn on your own either. And that's only speaking for traditional MA. Modern MA can include people in the army or navy for instance.

Also, even if a real MAist fights in the UFC or whatever, that doesn't make it any less of a sport. When he is in that ring and following those rules he is not practicing martial arts, but a spin off sport's version of it.