Chilly McFreeze

If this was really true we'd all spend our free time watching Powerlifting and World's Strongest Man. You know for a fact we watch it to see a good contest, and that means skill and athleticism, not sheer size.

silent_jay

Sounds like a name of someone who loves cock to me

you have such a fucked up sense of being a man it's funny.
He's won 4 fights, do we have to go through this gaain, fucking read a website to learn something. When did any MMA organization say such a thing? Proof he's abused steroids? Ever see pics of him at college? He was huge then, but I don't expect you to so that, you'd actually learn something about the sport. More throwing shit SF, maybe it'll stick.

Yep he would have, just because you pick one aspect of a persons past and stick with that and forget a 106-5 record as an NCAA wrestler isn't our fault.

---------- Post added at 04:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:22 PM ----------

This is seriously like debating with a ranting child who just goes lalalalalallalalalalalallaa and thinks they're presenting facts when all their doing is looking foolish and ignorant, if that's what you were hoping to accomplish SF, bravo, you've done it.

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

Baraka_Guru

So shouldering is more powerful than punching?


I'm guessing there are quite a few female athletes out there who'd disagree with you. Maybe I'm wrong.

I thought combat sports were supposed to be tests of strategy, reaction time, strength, quickness, endurance, reading your opponent, etc....

What are we talking about again?

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

silent_jay

I reckon we just use Gucci's suggestion and let this thread die the death it deserves, nothings going to be accomplished. In order for things to be accomplished someone in this thread has to be willing to listen and learn some things rather than shooting their mouths off.
Which makes you an internet tough guy, as everyone in this thread knows you don't have the sack to go and do as you say, but you'll talk a big game online which is the exact definition of an internet tough guy.

---------- Post added at 04:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:30 PM ----------

How being called the emperor of manliness sounds like the name of someone who loves the cock, not of the greatest fighter.

---------- Post added at 04:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:31 PM ----------

Gina Carano being one of them I bet.
Gina Carano - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
But in SFs eyes he could probably whip her and then run 2 miles.

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

Baraka_Guru

Don't tell anyone, but I have the huge crush on her.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Chilly McFreeze

I'm quite happy to tell anyone who'll listen that I do, nothing wrong with her (other than the fact she could kick my ass!)

Glory's Sun

ok.. so here's what I propose.. instead of pretending that all UFC fights are ended because someone missed a kick and slipped and was caught with a stiff right, how about going down to your local MMA gym and stepping in with the jiu-jitsu boys for 5 minutes. They aren't big on striking.. but they'll let you strike them.. see if punching is the ultimate pain after you're put into a Kimura so deep you want to die.. or even better when you let them get you off the ground they simply sidestep your attempt at a punch and you end up getting rear naked choked.. or.. if you don't like the sound of that, then step into the cage or ring with a striker. Let's see how long your boxing only skills keep you alive. I'm sure your face would love it when they clinch you and your nose is pounded with knees.

so really it comes down to this.. put up or shut up. There are pussies in any sport and people who think that boxing is going to make them better in a fight and they'll get their asses handed to them.. same with someone who thinks Jiu-Jitsu will help them in a street fight..it could happen.. but we aren't talking about street fighting..we are talking about SPORT COMPETITION. In the competition of MMA, the most well rounded fighter usually ends up on top..

but whatever.. keep spouting your mouth.. I'm sure your heavy talk will save you..

MMA is most certainly a sport. Boxing is most certainly a sport, but MMA utilizes boxing as one minor facet of it's game.. so really what are you arguing here? If Couture wins the heavyweight belt again..are you going to change your mind? Of course not, because boxing is just SOOOOOOO noble. So noble in fact, that some boxers will even bite your ear off if they get desperate.

and yes, Gina is one badass chick. She could pound most men into the ground.

silent_jay

I think all MMA fans love to look at Gina.

Gucci, we all know that isn't going to happen, SF is happy being the internet tough guy and calling these MMA fighters and black belts pussies from the comfort of his living room while eating fish and chips.
I fought a boxer years ago in a hockey fight, everyone kept telling me not to because 'he's a boxer' so I dropped the gloves, and guess what happened, the boxer dropped like a lump. Could I have done that without skates on? Most likely not, I don't fight without skates on, not a fan of fighting unless it was for hockey and I was getting paid to do it.

---------- Post added at 05:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:59 PM ----------

You may be right, you may be wrong, watch the video and find out, I can't remember the results:
Fight Science | Free Sports Videos - Watch Sports Videos Online | Veoh

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

Jetée

I might have seen this episode in the past or I might not have, but I have to wager that all the muscle, weight, and acceleration able to be generated by the human leg, along with its range, gives itself credence to be the most powerful and effective way to inflict the most damage to an opponent.

A punch may be easy, effective, and more accurate than a kick, but take a trained martial artist who is evenly toned and fit, test both the force exertion sample of his kick and his punch, and I think the kick wins every time.

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As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

The_Dunedan

Just ask anybody who was ever on the receiving end of Bill Wallace.

silent_jay

That was my thinking as well Jetée, I know I watched the show but can't remember the results, but to me a kick would be the stronger way to strike. Maybe if SF backed up his 'science' we'd know for sure. I guess saying that it's 'scientifically' means we're automatically supposed to fall for it. If the punch is stronger it's because of the smaller impact point, so in that case kick using the heel of your foot.

There's a good discussion about it here, but I haven't had time to glance through it all Hell's Kitchen is on and I'm occupied by the ex Marine who want to go outside with Ramsey.
Punch and Kick Force? - MartialTalk.Com
Yes it's another forum, but it isn't like I'm whoring it or anything but if the mods don't think it should be here, feel free to delete.

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

Jetée

I initially meant to point this detail out, and I briefly did unto myself in my post, but I left it out, post-scrap.

Sure the fist is a smaller, and therefore, more of a concentrated, oncoming force, than say, the whole a lower leg (shin, fibula, tibia area) to the body, but it really merits lengthy testing upon multiple subjects to determine which hurts the most; either a more condensed impact, or a more wider, dampening blow.

It really depends on your conditioning, and involuntary body reaction as to whether you feel more weakened by a single square fist, or an entire log of a leg. I don't know either way, but I'd take my chances oft more times with a punch, even a flurry of them, than endure a single strike that contains evident knockout power, something that is at least 20% of your own weight that is being thrust upon your person maliciously.

__________________
As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

Zeraph

Yeesh, what's with all the personal attacks on SF, silent? His opinions may be out there but some of your stuff is unwarranted.

I can safely say a (proper) kick will generate more pounds per sq inch than a punch. But its moot, distancing, timing, the strike area, and the defense of your opponent determines the strike to use.

silent_jay

Considering no moderator has said anything to me (and we've had a couple post in this thread), and I haven't made any personal attacks against SF at all, might I suggest you let the mods do their job, unless you're one of those new fancy mods with no moderator title.

Trust me, if I crossed the line the mods would be giving me shit for it.

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

Zeraph

Eh, never said you crossed a line. I just think youre taking this a little more personally than is healthy. Take a breath.

/mod spy

SF-nice job in taking these opinions in stride, even if I don't agree with your opinions

silent_jay

When you say I'm making "all these personal attacks against SF", you're saying I crossed a line, or broken the rules. Like I said let the mods do their job, that's what their here for, if you want to discuss MMA as a sport this is the thread for it. If you want to discuss my posting style or what I post send me a PM.

Now can we stay on topic please?

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

Zeraph

Mhmmmk.

Is it just me or do all Canadian fighters really suck? Seewotididther?

silent_jay

actually I'll just be the bigger man and report the troll.

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

shakran

All of you knock it off. This thread is about fighting, and I won't have any fighting in it

Go back to the MMA discussion, preferably without bitchy little snipes at people like "internet tough guy," "loves cock," or "canadian fighters suck" or I'll close the thread.

m0rpheus

Actually it's a knee from a Muay Thai clinch. The simplest way to throw a strong strike is a punch.

EDIT: Here's the video I was looking for. First up punches.


Yup boxing wins this one but not by much and it comes no where near most of the kicks (plus here's why you don't see flying kicks in real life often)

__________________
"it never got weird enough for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

Glory's Sun

yeah.. from experience I can promise a Muay Thai clinch resulting in a knee is just a teeeensiee bit painful

and man.. do I love kneeing people in their fucking face.

Plan9

I'm a big fan of the clinch, knee to the ribs followed by a hook to the head. The order creates the opening.

...

Testicular Revelation: MMA is totally a sport. You hafta wear a cup to cover for those low front kicks.

I learned right-quick that a inexperienced, jumpy fighters don't intentional aim for the balls... but that's where their foot goes.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

silent_jay

I got a guy with a knee in a hockey fight once, get enough of a crowd around trying to break up the fight and you can clinch the guys head down nice and low then wham right in the fuckin nose with a little raise of the leg, never got caught either....fuck I was a dirty bastard.

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

m0rpheus

Ah yes the One Inch Punch, pure bullshit.

but then again he's probably not a real martial artist because he was also an actor right?

Current UFC Light Heavyweight Champion Lyoto Machida.
Little highlight reel from his most recent fights.


Flying kick? Rarely. Headkick well Mirko Filopec made a career out of his highlight reel headkicks.

__________________
"it never got weird enough for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

silent_jay

The Gonzaga head kick to Cro-Cop was nice as well, very surprising too considering as you said Cro-Cop made a career out of his highlight reel headkicks. BUt yeah you don't really see flying kicks a la Karate Kid or anything.

The Machida-Shogun fight in October should be a good one, too bad we have to wait so long for it though.

---------- Post added at 10:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:20 PM ----------

Ever see the Mythbusters episode with the ninja and the one inch punch?
MythBusters Episode 109: Return of the Ninja

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

YaWhateva

I dont know, his win over Liddell was pretty sweet but I have to say that if the fight goes past the first round he will be completely gassed like in the Mark Coleman fight. I have Machida dominating him.

__________________
“If the Americans go in and overthrow Saddam Hussein and it's clean, he has nothing, I will apologize to the nation, and I will not trust the Bush administration again.” - Bill O'Reilly

"This is my United States of Whateva!"

m0rpheus

First off.
Randy Couture.
25 Pro Fights. Of those only seven were at light heavyweight. He won the UFC 13 HW tourney. 3 time HW champ. He is a smaller HW so he can cut down to LHW but heavy is his natural weight class.

Second. Randy Couture's last HW title win was on March 3, 2007. Brock's first MMA fight (not in even his first UFC fight) was June 2, 2007. His first UFC fight wasn't until after Randy had already defended his belt once. Clearly Dana only gave him the belt so Brock could take it though.

Or the best explaination for it is that Vince McMahon was willing to pay him millions of dollars while the UFC at the time couldn't offer him anywhere near that. As far as his "supposedly" great college career
- NJCAA All-American twice
- 1998 NJCAA Heavyweight Champion
- NCAA All-American twice
- Big Ten Conference Champion twice
- 2000 NCAA heavyweight champion
- 106–5 over his four years in college
There's nothing "supposedly" good about it.

If he wasn't a former WWE champion, but anyone else with the college credentials listed above would he still be a joke?

Don't forget about how bad Hulk Hogan beat Rocky in Rocky III! Wrestlers > MMA fighters AND Boxers!

Actually it was
1) Min-Soo Kim - a nobody
2) Heath Herring - a perennial gate keeper
3) Randy Couture - a three time HW Champ who's natural weight is 220lbs not 178
4) Mir - a former HW Champion who had just KO'ed one of the top Heavyweights (Nogueira was considered the #2 HW behind only Fedor) who had never lost a fight by anything but decision and was considered one of the top heavyweights ever

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"it never got weird enough for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

Strange Famous

Whoever this Gina woman is, I think I speak for 99% of the population to say that it is absolutely disgusting for a woman to be forced to take part in MMA.

As most people know I am in no way sexist, and in fact most people would describe as a feminist, but there is no place for women in legalised street brawling. What a revolting spectacle this must make. Similar - no doubt - to the "cat fights" WWF used to organise between Stacey Keibler and Trish Status.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Plan9

WOMEN ARE SACRED... except when we fuck them. Uh, I've fought women before, StrangeFamous. Turns out they don't fuck around. I had issues with it the first few times, but after getting banged up by a giggly redhead with a mean left hook, I've decided that they're just as capable as men when it comes to delivering techniques. They don't have the raw strength, but they often make up for it by being more aggressive, engaging with finesse. I fought this BJJ black belt for a long while and the only thing that kept me from getting choked out was the fact that I could stand up with her on me.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Strange Famous

Heath Herring is being described as a "gate keeper" - he is a bum who has lost about 20 fights. He is a perrenial opponent because he cant fight, but is relatively durable. He has fought a few top fighters and been beaten by them all

Randall Coutre - yes, a blown up Light Heavy. James Toney fights at heavy now, does that make him a legitimate heavyweight (and remember he won the title only to get stripped for juicing). And what excuse to you have with regards to the man being almost 50?

Frank Mir - Most accurate assessments put the guy in the top 20, not the top 3. Ive seen the fight, and he doesnt have the physique or the courage of a fighter.

Like I said - supposedly Lesner won a few fights in college. Big deal. This means nothing in pro sport. If he was an good he'd have turned pro at 18. But he went to college to fighter other people who arent good enough to turn pro just like he wasnt good enough. He "only" lost 5 times to second tier youth opponents... doesnt impress me in the slightest.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

m0rpheus

First off, you would probably be right about the 99% of the population thing except that mo one is forcing Gina Carano (or her opponent Cris Santos)

Second, if you really were a "feminist" then why can't a woman do whatever a man can?

Third, try this but I'll warn you now it's no "cat fight".


He's fought alot of top fighters actually and yes he's lost alot of fights but he's also won alot of fights. He is a gatekeeper. Most of his losses are to current or future champions. Hence gatekeeper.

First off, its RANDY Couture.
Second Heavyweight is his natural weight class. He walks around at about 220 lbs which puts him in the smaller end of heavyweight though so he can cut weight down to lightheavy if he wants. How does this make him "not a legitimate" heavyweight? It's not like he has to bulk up to go to heavy, he just doesn't cut for the weigh in.
As far as being almost 50, he was 45 when during the fight with Brock. The same age George Foreman was when he won his last HW belt. Randy is in amazing shape for a 45 year old and his body has held up increadibly well.

Mir was on most top ten lists for HW, before the Nogueira fight (usually listed behind Fedor, Nogueira, Arlovski, and Couture). However when you KO the guy who's ranked #2 it'll usually jump you up the list. Going into the fight with Brock most places were ranking Mir as #3-#5 in the world for HW.
Out of curiousity since you know next to nothing about Mir how do you know he doesn't have the physique or courage of a fighter.

No what you said was "supposed fights" neither of which is true. Lesnar won ALOT of wrestling matches. The NCAA isn't a "second tier" league. It's the biggest amateur wrestling league in America. Really the only place to go after that is the olympics. There was no "going pro" for wrestling (the WWE doesn't count) and even still the closest thing to "going pro" with wrestling would be MMA.

__________________
"it never got weird enough for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

silent_jay

You do have the internet to look up records right? You should use it to look up how many fights he's lost before shooting your mouth off.
Not a blown up light heavy at all, as m0rpheus said his natural weight is 220 which is well above the light heavy, so because the BOXER was juicing the MMA guy must be as well? But of course you precious boxers can do no wrong, but don't let facts get in the way of your opinion. Who fuckin cares he's almost 50, big fuckin shit, Gordie Howe Played hockey into his 50's, Chris Chelios is 40 some years old and still going, you look after yourself well enough you can stay physically active at a high level, but you wouldn't know ANYTHING about that. How old was Foreman when he won the title SF? Use facts now not opinion, we can all look it up.
Who's accurate assessment? Yours? Hardly accurate coming from you. I'll take ACTUAL MMA publications as acurate over you any day. "He is currently ranked by MMAWeekly.com and Sherdog.com as the No. 4 Heavyweight fighter in the world." The physique? What the fuck does physique have anything to do with it. As for courage, he's had the sack to get in the cage, all I've seen you do is shoot your yap off from the comfort of your living room.

A few? Supposedly? Fuck dude, we've all shown you his record, there's no supposed about it. He won 106, that's hardly a few, but once again don't let FACTS get in the way SF, you never have before. Turned pro at what at 18? Underwater basket weaving? You're clueless as to the caliber of athletes that wrestle at Division 1 NCAA schools aren't you? Actually it does mean something in pro sport, ever hear of the NHL draft? The NBA draft? MLB Draft? All based on what a person did before they're turning pro whether it's NCAA or not, so yeah it means a fuck of a lot to people who know what they're talking about, and means nothing to people who have no idea what they're on about.

You really should try and learn something before you post, with each post you're looking more and more foolish and really showing that you have no clue what you're on about.

This thread is getting more and more pathetic, it's like debating with someone who refuses to believe facts and seems to think that you can turn pro from an NCAA wrestling career, as m0rpheus said, the next step is the Olympics and why go there when Vince is throwing a busload of cash at you, any smart man would take the money and run.

---------- Post added at 05:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:35 AM ----------

Does anybody else feel like they've just been restating the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again? I don't think SF actually reads our posts, just goes off on tangents and hopes no one calls him on it.

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

Baraka_Guru

If you were actually a feminist, you'd know that it shouldn't matter whether one is a woman when making the decision to participate in MMA.

It's just how feminists criticize a culture that recognizes women for doing things just because they're female, or mothers, rather than for actually having done things that deserve recognition.

And comparing a woman's decision to participate in MMA to WWF "cat fights" simply because she's a woman who made the decision to become a fighter is opposite thinking of feminism. What can be said of female boxers or hockey players? Is that "cat fighting" and "roller derby on ice"?

Of course, this thread isn't about feminism, but I have a point: MMA is a sport, and there are women who will want to participate in that. (Imagine that, women in sports!) They shouldn't be coddled or given special "protection" from it.

/feminist

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

silent_jay

What I want to know is where SF got that she was 'forced' into fighting? It isn't like someone kidnapped her and drugged her to turn her into a fighter, this isn't the fuckin sex trade.

Couldn't agree more Baraka, if SF were as feminist as he seems to think he is he'd know it's her DECISION to participate in MMA, but again facts sometimes get in the way.

Also I've never seen a female MMA fight turn into a 'cat-fight' as he put it, all I've seen are some women fighting I wouldn't fuck with.

---------- Post added at 05:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:30 AM ----------

Would that not be sexist thinking?

Highly unlikely you speak for 99% of the population, you speak for yourself and no one else, but feel free to speculate what percentage you speak for.

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

Chilly McFreeze

This is absolutely pointless - it's the same arguments from SF over and over again, no matter how many times someone counters them. How many times is someone gonna have to say Randy is a natural heavyweight for instance before he'll accept it? For God's sake he won the heavyweight title twice and the UFC 13 heavyweight tournament before he even fought at light heavy (for 7 of his 25 fights as M0rpheus has already pointed out), so yes, that very much makes him a legitimate heavyweight.

silent_jay

Kind of like Lesnar's NCAA career being "supposed fights", and being against "second tier youth opponents". It's hard to debate a topic with someone when one side doesn't listen to FACT or really understand what it is he's debating. Like I said before, it's pick and choose debating and ignore facts for opinions, it really is a pointless thread like Gucci said I believe it was on page 1 of this thread.

It's the throwing shit against the wall style of debating, just hope something at some time sticks to said wall and doesn't slide back down in the hopper.

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

m0rpheus

Thanks Baraka_Guru. It's what I was trying to say but state far better and far more completely.

__________________
"it never got weird enough for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

Strange Famous

the point of feminism is not to give the right to women to compete in bikini's in a cage for the sexual titiliation of MMA's college aged male fanbase.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Baraka_Guru

No, the point of feminism is to attack the idea that simply being female dictates whether they should or shouldn't participate in something.

And whether women's MMA is titillating to college men is of no consequence, and the implication that this is the only function, purpose, and value of women's MMA is clearly anti-feminist. It suggests that female MMA only sexually objectifies women instead of allowing them to perform as competitors in a combat sport. This undermines women's legitimacy as athletes based on a kind of sexual fetishization of female endeavours in activities "meant only for men."

What other sports do women participate in purely for the pleasure of men? All of them?

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Glory's Sun

woah.. what MMA channel are you watching SF?? I've totally been missing out on the bikini stuff..