Is the girl interested or not... - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

The.Lunatic · 11-30-2005, 10:30 PM

I got a crazy idea.

If you just want to hit it...

Sounds like she already comes over. Have her over sometime to watch a movie/play drinking games with yourself and your friends.

Get her drunk get her in your room kiss her and then hit it.

If you want a relationship

Get her phone number >> Take her out for dinner and dancing/movie/boardgames/walk/etc just do it on a weekday so you don't ruin your weekend if she turns out to be boring

or if your cheap go out for coffee.

match000 · 12-01-2005, 12:02 AM

Hi Mantus,

Working with vs working against. That's a great point. Again, though, I am not sure how to proceed 'making out' with a girl who has never had a BF (I had asked why and she said she had very high standards or something like that), who is a studious 18 year old freshman. Note, studious; like, nerdy compared to sorority girls.
EDIT: heck, I'm at her level too. I have 0 experience making out. well, like 0.0001...

Well, regarding the steady flirting: I'll be honest, I am a horrible flirt. Yet, I just get the vibe that when we are talking, we aren't treating each other as just friends. Like, I'm not. And my hunch is she isn't either. So, in a sense, although we aren't flirting too much, we aren't exactly 'just friends' either.

Umm, regarding my friend's advice that I posted, yeah, I'm not sure. I just posted it cuz that is what he suggested. It's not that I haven't learned from what you said before.

My friend said that the first time I fucked up (well he says he doesn't believe its a fuck up, but I do of course), I caught her off guard and she didn't know what to say so she just said "I don't know." My friend says what if she went home, talked it over with her best friend, then came with a decision: "I will date this guy." So my friend suggests that I broach the subject again, and give her the chance to say "yes" or something like that.

Yeah, I know, it is all very contradictory.

Thanks, hope you didn't storm out too far

match000 · 12-01-2005, 12:11 AM

Hi Martian,

I see your point about 'probing'. I guess she'll expand on the subject herself, when given the chance, without having me 'probe it'.

That's a great point about the smooth part. I wasn't too sure either, but he suggests basically no hiccups, no awkward silences. There's no way I can pull that off.
Plus, I do agree, I need to take it slooower and wait for her to approach about it. I mean, yeah, poking at the subject now will be bad and putting her on the spot again..

Thanks, I understand about the its-my-decision part. I'm not trying to get a bunch of contradictory advice and ruffle people's feathers, I'm simply seeing how I can best handle the situation. I mean, I know people will disagree in their approaches, and I was prepared for that when I asked you guys and my friend. I was prepared to decide what is truly best, to merge the best of all worlds, and to make an informed decision given you guys' great (albeit differing) advice.

I guess if there's one thing I learned from college, its asking for help when you really need it. Believe me guys, your help was invaluable. Really.

You're right, she is confused. Argh...

Thanks for your help, again

match000 · 12-01-2005, 12:15 AM

I'm going to post what Martian has thoughtfully advised me (with Martian's permission, of course), because I think it will be very helpful to others in the same boat. Originally, I asked in private because I thought it was private. In retrospect, it's fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by match000

I felt like this little bit is better in private. Feel free to post it if you feel otherwise.

But my friend disagrees with your solution of letting her know my position (I like her), and telling her that I'll give her time to figure things out and be awaiting her. I think he means that by telling her I'm waiting, its like dropping a nuclear bomb and running away. He says I should work with her on it, and talk to her about it more, rather than just saying "ok I like you. See you tomorrow and let me know your decision on if you like me or not."

Thanks

Match

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martian

I'm not sure I understand what your friend is saying.

She has a decision to make. She has to decide if she wants to be with you, or more accurately, if she wants it badly enough to take the risks involved. She has a very negative image of relationships right now I gather, at least ones involving her. This is partly due to her mother, partly due to never having had one (it's that 'what's wrong with me?' syndrome again) and partly due to various other factors as have been mentioned. Dating you is going against that image and, in her mind, taking a risk. So when she feels a very natural attraction to you, she's conflicted.

You have to let her know that you're interested and that this is her choice to make. If she doesn't know there's a choice to be made, how can she possibly make it? And if she doesn't make it, it'll default to friendship. Consider the last thing she said to you on that (rather disastrous) night. I don't remember the exact wording, but it was something to the effect of 'I guess it'll be awkward in club now?' That sounds to me like she's closing a door. Or that she thinks it is closed, which means she may be cutting herself off without even knowing it. You have to let her know that you're still available to her, romantically, that you haven't given up.

Remember what I said about the difference between giving her space and giving her air? I do not in any way think you should run away, or leave her to her own devices or any of that. You definitely want to make your presence felt, but you don't want to pressure her. The bottom line is that no matter how badly you want to help her come to a decision, you simply can't. That's something she has to do on her own. She is taking a big risk here. Is it valid? I don't know, but I'm guessing probably not. You seem to me like the kind of guy who will be considerate of her grades and home life and won't try to interfere or cause her trouble. But even if it's not valid, even if it's not real, it's real to her. In her mind, it's a threat to her potential success and there is absolutely nothing you can do or say to convince her otherwise. Sorry, but that's how it goes. She's been damaged. Her mother, with the best of intentions, has instilled a fear in her that goes against what she feels, what's very natural for someone in her age and position to feel. There are exactly two people who even have a chance of fixing that damage and even if her mother is interested in doing so (probably not) she still may not be able to at this point. That leaves it down to her and her alone. You can't work through this with her. You can't help her. If she wants to talk about it, you can talk about it and you absolutely should. If she decides she does want you, then you should (obviously) go ahead with that. If she asks you for something and it's in you power to give, by all means give it to her. But there is no way that you can help her if she doesn't ask you for help. I know it's hard to accept, but it's the truth and if you try you're only going to frustrate yourself at best and at worst ause even more strain, possibly even damage things beyond repair.

Right from the start, remember I told you that this is going to take time and it's going to be a lot of work. I suggested then that you had the decision to make as to whether she's worth it and you decided that she is. That's not a set in stone decision; if it becomes too much for you, you can change your mind. But if you're willing to commit, commit. Don't try to rush things along because of what you want with her and don't try to find an easy answer, because there isn't one.

match000 · 12-01-2005, 12:22 AM

Hi Lunatic,

Heh, you're pretty crazy, just like your name says

match000 · 12-01-2005, 12:04 PM

Does text message flirting work? Like, if I know the girl's favourite song, and I hear it and txt her "heard __ song, thinking of u", is that flirty or just flat out creepy?

Mantus · 12-01-2005, 01:30 PM

I make allot of promises to write stuff on this forum that I never keep. So I give you the right to bother as much as you wan't if I don't respond soon.

I will give you some tips on flirting. The prost is in the process but I am a rather slow at extracting my thoughts and I am capricious as hell = bad combination

Cheers.

Ok, maybe this was a mistake, it's like trying to explain how to ride a bike...maybe tomorrow...

match000 · 12-01-2005, 11:11 PM

Ok, I'm ultra busy with other stuff (aka school and grad school applications) but I just have to rant this out.

So this girl who we've been talking about, lets call Amy, came to my university from around the area. She came in with 2 of her good highschool friends, a girl and a guy. The girl is her very close friend who is her roommate. The guy is her very close friend too. Basically, all they did their first semester (this semester) was hang out alot together, go home on the weekends, and generally didn't meet anyone else (Amy didn't even go to one party!! And neither has she tried ANY of the close campus restaurants at all. Even ME, who was nerdy, had at least gone to a few parties, and tried all the restaurants, and met some new friends, by the end of first semester freshman year)

Anyways, the guy is a very close friend, who I am starting to get the feeling she likes and has more than just a friend interest in. Amy laughs with her friend at every little weird, quirky thing the guy does (quite immature both for the guy to do and the girls to laugh at). The guy does weird stuff like eat 5 sandwiches while waiting in the line for more food, or like drink milk or take his food around and eat it while walking. I mean, I think he's doing it for attention; if he were mature, he would just sit his ass down and eat his food without walking around all the time eating, or "forgetting" his plates around the school cafetaria, which the girls also seem to find very cute.

or Amy will be like, "hey guy, can u untie this balloon for me? (points at balloon which is *right* in front of her, but halfway across table from guy).

apparently the guy has slept over in their dorm room too. (none of my business, really). But, its weird for platonic friends to sleep over i think... And when the guy told her today that his dorm ceiling was 'leaking', she immediately said "hey! u can sleep in our room".

Apparently the guy is going after some other freshman girl who they didn't know from before (but of course they do know now). And when Amy was eating today it looked like she and this other girl were in competition, or they weren't talking as friends would talk (not even casual friends haha).

So basically, I have a hunch that Amy AND the guy friend secretly like each other. But being inexperienced freshmen, and not willing to risk their friendship, they are going after other people (such as myself I think).

I really don't want to be the *DECOY* in this sort of deal. I'll be honest. I feel jealousy when she shows flirtatious interest in her close guy friend, because I like her. BUT, its the sort of laughing and flirting that is REALLY immature. I don't think I can stand much more of this immature freshman bullcrap.

If she likes the guy, or he likes her, or both, they should just get together, and stop wasting my time. Her confusion might stem from her interest in the guy as well.

Well, I'm just ranting, cuz well, I'm tired of this immaturity. If I were dating her, or her BF even, and had to sit through a semester's worth of this immature crap (haha look at Guy friend, he's eating 5 sandwiches while he's waiting in the salad line), I think I'll shooot myself.

Now I know why ppl don't go after freshmen, unless they're in it for the fling. ARGH

EDIT: hmm I sound jealous. I AM jealous. I should respect their good friendship, which I do. But really, if deep down they like each other I don't want to waste my last semester chasing after a frigid confused girl.

Martian · 12-02-2005, 09:26 AM

Whoa, whoa, whoa!

And you were doing so well too...

What is it I keep saying? Confidence, my friend, confidence!

Stop and ask yourself this : do you know that they like each other? What evidence have you seen that supports that? What evidence have you seen that contradicts it? Does she seem like the type who would use you to get to him?

Remember, of crucial importance right now is that you not get too involved. If she digs you, she digs you. If she doesn't, then you can at least walk away saying you gave it your best shot. If you get too wrapped up in this girl your emotions will start to get in the way and you will end up hurt if she doesn't go for you. And if you start assuming that she likes someone else or that someone else likes her you're not even giving her the chance to reject you. You're doing it for her.

Try this approach. Do you know that she likes him or that he likes her? No. You don't know that. You may suspect, but until you find them sucking each other's faces, you don't know. Is there an alternative explanation for their behaviour? Yeah, there is. You said that they're tightly knit, that they're all introverted, that none of them have really gotten to know anyone new in college and on top of all that they went to high school together and thus, have presumably been friends for a long time. It seems not only possible, but likely that they're just really good friends and that she thinks of him more as a brother than a boyfriend.

So there's that. Now ask yourself what you're accomplishing by assuming that they are (or want to be) more than just friends? Does it impact your relationship with her in a constructive way? How about him (and if you want to be with her you need to be at least cordial to her friends)? Does it accomplish anything, anything at all other than causing you pain and grief and doubt? And if it doesn't, is that pain and grief and doubt really necessary? What purpose does it serve in your life?

I'm not saying don't bear the possibility in mind. She may have made that decision and if you're prepared for it you can accept it if it comes. But there's a big difference between acknowledging the possibility of something and assuming it's the truth. Don't jump to that conclusion. There's no gain to be had in it.

match000 · 12-02-2005, 04:10 PM

Hi Martian,

Thanks for keeping me on track.. again. I tend to fall into these negative mindsets don't I. The thing is, I was so sure in what I was thinking that I didn't even think of it as me being negative.

You're right, my assumptions do nothing but only negatively impact my situation and mindset. And yes, good point about the attached part; getting to wrapped up means I will only end up hurt.

Thanks man.

As for an update, I convinced her to stay on campus this weekend instead of going home as usual (I wasn't annoying about it, only mentioned a few times and very short each time), and so we're going out to dinner and perhaps ice skating tonight (she asked "Why iceskating?" (she had just gone iceskating with friends this past weekend) and I said "we can do something else if u want."

Martian · 12-02-2005, 05:12 PM

Good work, re: the iceskating. Now you need to use it to your advantage : what can you do with this to make your intentions clear? Her question makes me think she suspects why you decided on ice skating. That she agreed and other information makes me think she may be open to (and possibly even expecting) some sort of romantic advancement.

Remember, subtlety isn't what you're going for hear. Flowers are a good option. So is a kiss, if the mood is right. Holding hands will almost definitely work for you this weekend, based on what you're telling me.

I think you're getting a good idea as to how to proceed. It's up to you to gauge the mood and figure out what's going to work. Just carpe diem, my man. Don't worry about her rejecting you. Leave the fear and doubt and nervousness behind for now - find an actual physical container that you can put it in for now if you have to, so you can worry about it later.

The onus is on you. Judging on what you've told us she almost definitely likes you, but she's definitely not going to make a move and she's not going to wait around forever. If you're going to do it, this weekend is prime time for it.

Don't worry about who else is around either. If they don't know you, they don't matter. You'll never see them again, what do you care what they think? If they're friends of yours, they'll probably be rooting for you and if they're friends of her - well, they're probably still rooting for you. Everybody wants their friends to be happy.

So stop worrying about doing it and just bloody well do it, y'know?

match000 · 12-02-2005, 06:05 PM

Thanks Martian. Those suggestiosn are really helpful. Carpe Diem. yes

Thats why I checked the forum before I left (but leaving now...!)

Martian · 12-02-2005, 06:27 PM

Good luck. We're pullin' for ya.

match000 · 12-03-2005, 01:16 AM

Thanks for the support! It means alot to me

so, update:

Well, this girl is like, giving me weird signals. Argh. We go out like we are dating, cuz she doesn't bring her friends along, but everytime I try to get romantic with some verbal liner, or *simple* physical stuff (simple to not put overt pressure, simple like bump, or quick pat), she doesn't reciprocate as if she wants to advance our relationship.

For example, verbally she'll just kind of laugh it off or reply with something nice, but not flirtatious back.

Physically, she'll let the smaller things happen (like bumps and stuff and still be walking closely), but *once* I tried the arm-around-shoulder as we were walking down a dark street, and I said "oh you're scared. Let me protect you (god I sound lame in retrospect)". She leaned away and then gave me a kind of O_o look, kind of like "we're friends, umm that's too touchy." err, i hope u get what i mean.

And its annoying as hell. Because she likes me, but why stop every one of my advances. Or like, she's not helping me help her. I hope you see what I mean. I'm doing what you and Mantus suggested: don't push her, but help guide her, be supportive. But she's not helping me help her. Its really annoying.

I paid for dinner and skating, which I don't mind. I know it goes against what Mantus says, but I am doing it cuz she is a *newb* and I have to really SCREAM that "THIS IS A DATE."

I know you said "carpe diem", but I still didn't ballz up during skating and try to hold her hand. Partly because of all those stopping signals I got, as I described above. The *only* time we held hands was during the "couples only skate song", where the rink forced ppl to hold hands or get off (thanks rink!).

Then after we walked halfway back I asked if she was still up for a movie (I had suggested it earlier, she had said "we'll see how tired I am after skating.") And she said no, she was tired and wanted to sleep. This was the first time she had ever said no to something I suggested to do.

So I was really really disappointed. And, unfortunately, all my friends tell me when I'm sad/angry/brooding it is *dead obvious* written all over my face. So I think she knew, cuz the other half way back I just wasn't being myself. I tried really hard, but I just can't hide my dissapointment.

I fell into the trap you warned me of, Martian. I set my expectations too high and in the end I burned myself. Even with the warnings you gave me (Which DID sink in), I still fell prey to them. Arggghhh

I'm not sure what to do with this girl. I don't think its gonna happen before winter break, but it might happen next semester if I keep keep going. But she's like, a rock that keeps giving me mixed signals.

In fact, noone knows the answer to this, but she could just be really not ready emotionally at all for a relationship her first year, no matter what. And she's just being naturally flirty cuz she's naturally good at it. And taht even if I keep going all of next semester I'll still get nowhere.

Sorry for such a long rant, again. I am really confused myself. At this time, I am too busy with other things to fall prey to girl troubles. Yet here I am. Its cuz I made a concious decision that my life would change this semester: I will not remain a study/academic nerd, no matter how busy/important time it is.

I also feel like my interest in her is going down. I keep doing all this, initiating everything, and I get these weird signals in return. She's not a hot model, I was attracted to her because she was cute enough, had a nice personality, and most importantly, showed interest.

Ok, I ranted again. Sorry.

All the best.. sitting here confused as hell.
Thanks!
Match

EDIT: After she had said 'no' to movies, we were walking on the way back and we had bumped into my good friend. He said I was in 'stonewall' mode myself (evidently my dissapoint was written on my face), that she seemed perfectly fine and even quite happy (which I agree with), and that it was me who was being weird. Hmmm. It is true.

Also, at the end, I had worked myself into such a weird dissapointment state that I didnt' even hug her at the door. There was a 1-2 second wait as she was going in, she was facing me with her back holding the door open. It was weird.

Well, feel free to give me a FAIL, cuz I FAILED again, even with your excellent advice. Why didn't I ballz up, carpe diem, BE CONFIDENT, and at least HUG? Cuz, I suck. That's all I can say

I fell into a total non-confidence vicious cycle that plunged me deeper and deeper.

To be honest, at the end when we were parting I had worked myself into thinking I was totally going to stop with this girl. Like, its useless. No more. Moving on.

Needless to say I take it back now. Argh

match000 · 12-03-2005, 01:37 AM

My current state of mind is:

I'm tired of having to second guess this girl at every turn. I'm not even "playing dating/flirting games". Neither is she (I certainly hope she isnt).

You guys said patience is good. I will be rewarded later. No instant gratification.

I kinda feel tempted to just forward the link to this thread to the girl, and like, let her see everything that I am thinking. Cuz, I'm tired of this...

EDIT: I guess I am expecting too much. The most she can offer now is friendship, But I expect more. Guess it boils down to this.

match000 · 12-03-2005, 02:09 AM

Ok. After a long shower, I realize I need to:

Chill the fuck out.

She did stay here this weekend, although she said she stayed cuz of laundry, I think its cuz of my proposed date. Err, hopefully. Lol

Martian · 12-03-2005, 07:51 AM

match000 - You didn't fail on the iceskating thing. In fact, I'd say you did really well. You did exactly what I told you to - you read the signs she was giving you and you acted on them. Nobody could've expected you to do any more; if she wasn't receptive, she wasn't receptive. You weren't going to change that by having more balls or being more chivalrous or anything.

Don't let yourself get too caught up in this girl. It has to be okay with you if she's not interested.

You can't expect to make an overnight change in the way you think or feel. You can't just say "I'm going to have the nerve to make a move and if she turns me down I'm going to be okay with that" and expect it to happen. Developing the right attitude takes time and everybody hits the roadblocks you're hitting. God knows I did.

I'm going to be honest with you - you're back to square one now. If you decide to pursue this girl, know that you're doing it on the chance that she likes you and it's very possible that she doesn't. If she does, she's still going to need time. So you're back to that decision again; is she worth the time and effort? And if she is, will it be okay if it doesn't work out? Maybe she's not and maybe it won't and that's okay. Again to borrow popular wisdom, there are plenty of other fish in the sea.

You're right, she may not be ready right now. Maybe won't be for a while. She could decide next week, next month or next year that she wants to be in a relationship. When she does it might not be with you. If it comes to that and she does choose somebody else, will you be okay with it?

Just follow your instincts. All we have to judge by is what you give us. You're the only one who knows.

Don't make yourself into the bad guy here. You may not have done everything perfect, but you did what you could. You are not a failure and you did not do anything wrong. A lot of this is up to her and if she makes up her mind you may just not be able to change that.

Sultana · 12-03-2005, 08:23 AM

This is how one gains experience. Don't fret, it's not your only chance at a gal for the rest of your life.

However, I think that perhaps it's not a good idea for someone who is very near finishing one's college experience to pursue a relationship with one who is only just starting theirs.

In general, I'd encourage you to learn to *relax*, stop over-analyzing, esp. in your realtionships with humans. They don't follow rules, everything is not quantifiable, you have instincts for a reason.

Lastly, I feel this is a good life experience in practicing going with your gut, rather than with your head.

Mantus · 12-03-2005, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sultana

Lastly, I feel this is a good life experience in practicing going with your gut, rather than with your head.

Sexy AND wise, do you have a sister living near Toronto?

match000 · 12-03-2005, 02:24 PM

Thanks for the advice guys. Feeling kind of down now, because:

I bumped into her and her roommate at the school cafetaria this morning (right after our date last night). Boy, things seemed to be a total 180 degrees. Her roommate gave me the look that was like "uh oh, here he is. what's gonna happen." And the girl nicely said hi and stuff, but barely looked at me during the conversation and mostly talked and looked at her roommate. I was trying my best to be friendly (I decided to drop this one and be friends).

It looks like she's totally lost interest too. I'm just baffled how there could be such a 180 degree turn over one night.

I mean, at the end it was so obvious that something was wrong. It seemed like she was sad or annoyed or mad at me or something. Or like we're not even friends anymore. Its WEIRD.

Edit: update: i asked her over IM and apparently she's feeling sick. Right...

Martian · 12-03-2005, 06:27 PM

Remember, I told you she had a choice to make? Whether she wanted to take a risk? Well, sounds like she made it.

Sorry. I know that you're hurting, but try to see the positives : you've learned a lot about how to approach a girl, you've been rejected and now you know it's not the end of life. The next one will be that much easier.

match000 · 12-04-2005, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martian

Remember, I told you she had a choice to make? Whether she wanted to take a risk? Well, sounds like she made it.

Sorry. I know that you're hurting, but try to see the positives : you've learned a lot about how to approach a girl, you've been rejected and now you know it's not the end of life. The next one will be that much easier.

Thanks for your understanding. I did learn alot, and a whole lot of what NOT to do either

Actually, today I was pretty down most of it, especially since I IM'ed her and asked about it and she stonewalled me with one-liners and obviously was playing a fucking game. Wow, even newb girls have this shit ingrained in them. I just wanted to talk.

My other good friend talked some sense into me, and I'm all good now

Hahaha actually I'm alot better than before. Whew, live and learn. This girl won't get MY second chance. HAHAAH.

Thanks alot for all your help Martian. Although it didn't work out, I really learned alot. From Mantus too. I'm very grateful you guys were able to support me the whole way, and really, I took your advices to heart (with my own judgment mixed in, of course) and have now become all the better for it.

Cheers,
Match

I hope that others can learn from this thread, my experience, and you guys' advice, too..

match000 · 12-04-2005, 02:41 AM

PS

IBlade, Mantus, a few others were right about one thing: I got waay too tunnel-visioned.
And yeah, IBlade was also right: I should have just put her down for a sec, gone out with a few other girls (which I could have done actually) and gotten my perspective back in wack.

And yeah, I don't need to ask her what I did wrong. I know now what I did wrong. I'm gonna have to quote David Deangelo, hope he doesn't mind; he sent this out on his free email list.

I did every one of these things, and I think these pretty much explain why I am where I am. Not like I care, I am too good for her anyways

Quote:

Originally Posted by David DeAngelo

So, let's take a few minutes and talk about the
issues and what CAUSES them.

Here are some of the "root causes", and how I
see them...

1) Having no other options.

If you're sitting at the phone with ONE phone
number in your hand, and you haven't been out on a
date in a long time, and you are feeling
DESPERATE, you're probably going to get VERY
nervous.

When you have no other options, the single one
in front of you becomes VERY valuable.

Translation: You want it TOO badly.

This AUTOMATICALLY triggers your emotional
system, because at some level you realize that if
you screw this up, it's all over. And you know
that it's all going to happen in just a few
SECONDS.

The pressure is too much!

I actually DID have other options. My mistake was that I intentionally made her my only option. Huuuuge mistake.

However, since I know I did have other options, I wasn't really too nervous on the phone though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David DeAngelo

2) Putting too much importance on a single girl.

Now, if you have a girl that you've been dating
for six months, and you've decided that she's one
in a million, it makes sense to put a lot of
importance on your relationship with her.

But, if you don't know a girl very well, or you
haven't even dated her at all, then you are only
setting yourself up for major disappointment by
putting too much importance on ANY girl.

3) Thinking you need to IMPRESS her.

This is a HUGE issue.

Most men "subconsciously" behave and
communicate like they're trying to IMPRESS the
woman of their desires.

When you think about this, it only makes
sense... of course you'd want to impress the woman
you like... so she'll think you're a cool guy and
want to be with you.

But have you ever thought for a moment how an
interesting, attractive woman sees it when a guy
is TRYING to IMPRESS her?

Well, here's the INSTANT and SUBCONSCIOUS
response that women have:

"He's trying too hard. There's something wrong.
This guy must have something he's trying to
hide... and he must be pretty insecure."

In other words, the INSTANT you do something or
say something that is an obvious attempt at
impressing a woman, her radar system screams:

"WUSSY!"

4) Having expectations and being attached to them.

You might think of this one as a variation of
"wanting it too much"... only slightly different.

When you start getting your hopes and
expectations up, you begin to get ATTACHED to
them.

Then you run the risk of HOLDING ON TOO TIGHT
to your little fantasy.

Bad idea.

Women don't date guys who assume too much, act
too comfortable, or fall for them too quickly.

Remember, beautiful women have guys falling for
them left and right.

In fact, they almost EXPECT to go out on
one or two dates with a guy and then say, "You
know, I really like you..." or some other equally
predictable sentiment.

Just like being desperate can destroy your
chances with a woman, liking a woman too much, too
fast and creating expectations leads to crazy,
stupid mistakes as well.

keyshawn · 12-04-2005, 09:12 AM

Match000, mantus, and the other contributors: Thanks for sharing your experiences !

Right now, I feel like I'm in the same shoes as match000, except both of us are college freshman. And I'm confused as hell as for how to approach my situation... [to be honest, I haven't had too many relationships].

I'm not sure if I actually waited too long for mine, which I bit regret, but I'm trying to walk a fine line of continuing this relationship and keeping myself open for other opportunities

Sorry, not to sidetrack the thread, I just wanted to chime in on my thoughts: I have a somewhat similar experience in my college time so far (after one quarter, as a freshman).

Her some of my experiences so far. I'm not sure how much/what type of experiences/past relationships she's had.
Neither of us have probed each other on these issues of past relationships. I haven't directly put her on the spot [in terms of asking her about the level of commitment to the relationship] but I'm not sure if I should have already or not, since I've known her for about 10 weeks now. She's given me mixed responses to any sort of moves I make.
A couple times I've attempted to put my arm around her and she won't reciprocate but she doesn't communicate (vocally or body language) to remove it. However, sometimes when I've did this, her best friend (also a girl and a friend of mine as well) is with us too, and they almost always hold hands together, although I'm pretty sure it's just done in a mutual friend, playful fashion (that is, I don't believe neither of them are attracted to their sex). Also, We're all in a group of friends of about 6 girls, and one other guy. I asked the other guy about if it was obvious that I've made moves on her and showed my interest. He said it wasn't obvious and actually didn't know that I liked her (although I think that maybe because he has not been there some of the time I've made moves.
Other moves that I've made are like sitting next to her when watching a movie or TV when the group is together (although I don't do this all the time) or just flirting with her during conversations (which often, is actually more successful in reciprocation than physical moves).
Anyways, I did (now in retrospect) have the chance to probably make a move. About a month, we watched a movie together (actually the only time we've did alone) (all the other times, it's a group viewing). We watched Crash, while I never put my arm around her, we snuggled near each other and after, slept remaining in the same position . No moves, by either of us, were made....(I suppose I should have made one then, in hindsight).
Generally, we hang out together (in the group) about a few days a week. Now, it's winter break for us, the entire month of December, and I don't know how to approach the relationship when we come back in january.

I know I totally rambled on this, right now, I'm just trying to collect all of my thoughts and wonder where I should go from here....

Advice for match000:
Anyways, in one of my past few relationships: at the time, summertime, in the fall i'd be a h.s. senior, she'd be a h.s. frosh. She totally fell for me, so I had no problems with working for that. However, I found out from our mutual friends that this was her first ever relationship of any sort, and she had no idea of how to go. Further, her parents were a bit protective. As soon as the school year began, we driftly off in our own directions very quickly.
What I took from this limited experience, is that such a gap of age [senior-frosh] actually really makes a difference, given how rapidly teenagers and young adults can mature in a matter of a year or two. Even though she (and probably your female as well) was mature for her age, there were still some intangibles (can't really put my finger of what exactly) that, I'd noticed very subtle things that display the different levels of maturity between us. As much as I would have liked to relationship the succeed; I soon realized, that, at this time, a real relationship or dating really wouldn't work, given the maturity differences between us two. Of course, I had a brief period of 'what if the relationship would work later on...' and I'd say don't worry about any of the 'what ifs.' You might miss another opportunity that would come up....

Good luck to each of us, and thanks again to everyone's advice who have been down the paths that match000 and I are walking down right down right now.

catcha back on the flipside,
will.

match000 · 12-04-2005, 09:31 AM

Hi Keyshawn,

I'm glad that my similar experience can help with yours too. Thanks for sharing your previous experience.

As you know, I'm not really experienced enough to be able to give you advice on what you could or should do. However, I do know from what I've just gone through that, no matter how 'special' you think the girl is (I had thought like, 'oh this one's special cuz she really likes me'), that if you go out of your way to accomodate their interest (ie initiating everything, being the one doing all the work, and generally just turning goo-goo ga-ga for her, tring to impress her, etc), that she'll just lose interest in a snap. Literally. Like, with the girl I was after, I think she lost it over a week of my actions, but her reaction and attitude changed on the surface, literally, OVER ONE NIGHT. She doesn't even bother being friendly at all, over IM. Its like, stonewalls me with one-liners. Immature freshmen

It doesn't matter how much she likes you now. It could all change very very fast. Be aware, and that doesn't mean suck up to her extra. It actually means distance yourself a little more sometimes, 'try' other girls out, and yeah, don't fall prey to the tunnel-vision I got. I know its hard to believe, but once you've gone through it like I did you'll know what I mean (I hope you won't have to though).

Regarding what actually happened between the two of you, I think that its a very very good sign that you guys 'slept' in that position. That has to mean she's very comfortable with you and wants something a little more intimate. Again, from my previous experience, do NOT let this sign get all into your head, and don't let it make you become goo-goo ga-ga and become a total wuss to her. Wuss is not the traditional wuss, more like what I quoted above from David DeAngelo: Doing everything, trying to impress her (you might try this as you flirt more and she doesn't respond, you won't know what to do so you'll say things to make yourself look good. I know I did, don't make that mistake), and etc.

All the best to you, I hope it works out,
Match

EDIT: One more thing I wanted to say is, you are also a college freshman. I think its great that you already 'got it' and are trying to go after girls (I didn't up to now because I was concerned with grades). You have plenty of time, so take your time (not necessarily regarding this girl, but in general), you are not in a 'rush' like I am.

EDIT2: Also, I kind of fell victim to the whole 'oh she really likes me, she's so special' thing. Ask yourself, do you *really* like her? Or are you just talking yourself into it because she showed interest alot in you first? In any case, I think trying to start a relationship on the first girl that showed interest is also really bad (which is what I tried to pull). Of course, I had talked myself into and ended up liking her alot, as you can tell... I guess just another thing to think about.

match000 · 12-07-2005, 11:19 PM

If I want to just be friends with the girl, is it better to just get it out into the open. Ask her something like:
"Hey I'm sorry for trying to be your boyfriend, we should just be friends."

or something like that?

Or is it better to play it totally cool and not talk about it, but just not be flirty and just treat her as a friend?

Martian · 12-07-2005, 11:42 PM

Don't try to confront her on it.

She knows what you wanted and it's not what she wanted. Just let it happen; don't try to force anything, but don't pull away from her either. If you can, try to go back to how it was before you started showing interest.

You don't have to tell her that you want to be her friend. You just have to be her friend.

Also, don't do it in the hopes that 'she'll come around' or anything like that. Do it because you want to be friends with her, or not at all.

11-30-2005, 10:30 PM	#41 (permalink)
The.Lunatic Psycho Location: Somewhere just beyond the realm of sanity...	I got a crazy idea. If you just want to hit it... Sounds like she already comes over. Have her over sometime to watch a movie/play drinking games with yourself and your friends. Get her drunk get her in your room kiss her and then hit it. If you want a relationship Get her phone number >> Take her out for dinner and dancing/movie/boardgames/walk/etc just do it on a weekday so you don't ruin your weekend if she turns out to be boring or if your cheap go out for coffee. __________________ Proud memeber of the Insomniac Club.

12-01-2005, 12:02 AM	#42 (permalink)
match000 Psycho	Hi Mantus, Working with vs working against. That's a great point. Again, though, I am not sure how to proceed 'making out' with a girl who has never had a BF (I had asked why and she said she had very high standards or something like that), who is a studious 18 year old freshman. Note, studious; like, nerdy compared to sorority girls. EDIT: heck, I'm at her level too. I have 0 experience making out. well, like 0.0001... Well, regarding the steady flirting: I'll be honest, I am a horrible flirt. Yet, I just get the vibe that when we are talking, we aren't treating each other as just friends. Like, I'm not. And my hunch is she isn't either. So, in a sense, although we aren't flirting too much, we aren't exactly 'just friends' either. Umm, regarding my friend's advice that I posted, yeah, I'm not sure. I just posted it cuz that is what he suggested. It's not that I haven't learned from what you said before. My friend said that the first time I fucked up (well he says he doesn't believe its a fuck up, but I do of course), I caught her off guard and she didn't know what to say so she just said "I don't know." My friend says what if she went home, talked it over with her best friend, then came with a decision: "I will date this guy." So my friend suggests that I broach the subject again, and give her the chance to say "yes" or something like that. Yeah, I know, it is all very contradictory. Thanks, hope you didn't storm out too far Last edited by match000; 12-01-2005 at 12:30 AM..

12-01-2005, 12:11 AM	#43 (permalink)
match000 Psycho	Hi Martian, I see your point about 'probing'. I guess she'll expand on the subject herself, when given the chance, without having me 'probe it'. That's a great point about the smooth part. I wasn't too sure either, but he suggests basically no hiccups, no awkward silences. There's no way I can pull that off. Plus, I do agree, I need to take it slooower and wait for her to approach about it. I mean, yeah, poking at the subject now will be bad and putting her on the spot again.. Thanks, I understand about the its-my-decision part. I'm not trying to get a bunch of contradictory advice and ruffle people's feathers, I'm simply seeing how I can best handle the situation. I mean, I know people will disagree in their approaches, and I was prepared for that when I asked you guys and my friend. I was prepared to decide what is truly best, to merge the best of all worlds, and to make an informed decision given you guys' great (albeit differing) advice. I guess if there's one thing I learned from college, its asking for help when you really need it. Believe me guys, your help was invaluable. Really. You're right, she is confused. Argh... Thanks for your help, again Last edited by match000; 12-01-2005 at 12:32 AM..

12-01-2005, 12:22 AM	#45 (permalink)
match000 Psycho	Hi Lunatic, Heh, you're pretty crazy, just like your name says Last edited by match000; 12-01-2005 at 12:32 AM..

12-01-2005, 01:30 PM	#47 (permalink)
Mantus lascivious	I make allot of promises to write stuff on this forum that I never keep. So I give you the right to bother as much as you wan't if I don't respond soon. I will give you some tips on flirting. The prost is in the process but I am a rather slow at extracting my thoughts and I am capricious as hell = bad combination Cheers. Ok, maybe this was a mistake, it's like trying to explain how to ride a bike...maybe tomorrow... Last edited by Mantus; 12-01-2005 at 03:23 PM..

12-01-2005, 12:04 PM	#46 (permalink)
match000 Psycho	Does text message flirting work? Like, if I know the girl's favourite song, and I hear it and txt her "heard __ song, thinking of u", is that flirty or just flat out creepy?

12-01-2005, 11:11 PM	#48 (permalink)
match000 Psycho	Ok, I'm ultra busy with other stuff (aka school and grad school applications) but I just have to rant this out. So this girl who we've been talking about, lets call Amy, came to my university from around the area. She came in with 2 of her good highschool friends, a girl and a guy. The girl is her very close friend who is her roommate. The guy is her very close friend too. Basically, all they did their first semester (this semester) was hang out alot together, go home on the weekends, and generally didn't meet anyone else (Amy didn't even go to one party!! And neither has she tried ANY of the close campus restaurants at all. Even ME, who was nerdy, had at least gone to a few parties, and tried all the restaurants, and met some new friends, by the end of first semester freshman year) Anyways, the guy is a very close friend, who I am starting to get the feeling she likes and has more than just a friend interest in. Amy laughs with her friend at every little weird, quirky thing the guy does (quite immature both for the guy to do and the girls to laugh at). The guy does weird stuff like eat 5 sandwiches while waiting in the line for more food, or like drink milk or take his food around and eat it while walking. I mean, I think he's doing it for attention; if he were mature, he would just sit his ass down and eat his food without walking around all the time eating, or "forgetting" his plates around the school cafetaria, which the girls also seem to find very cute. or Amy will be like, "hey guy, can u untie this balloon for me? (points at balloon which is right in front of her, but halfway across table from guy). apparently the guy has slept over in their dorm room too. (none of my business, really). But, its weird for platonic friends to sleep over i think... And when the guy told her today that his dorm ceiling was 'leaking', she immediately said "hey! u can sleep in our room". Apparently the guy is going after some other freshman girl who they didn't know from before (but of course they do know now). And when Amy was eating today it looked like she and this other girl were in competition, or they weren't talking as friends would talk (not even casual friends haha). So basically, I have a hunch that Amy AND the guy friend secretly like each other. But being inexperienced freshmen, and not willing to risk their friendship, they are going after other people (such as myself I think). I really don't want to be the DECOY in this sort of deal. I'll be honest. I feel jealousy when she shows flirtatious interest in her close guy friend, because I like her. BUT, its the sort of laughing and flirting that is REALLY immature. I don't think I can stand much more of this immature freshman bullcrap. If she likes the guy, or he likes her, or both, they should just get together, and stop wasting my time. Her confusion might stem from her interest in the guy as well. Well, I'm just ranting, cuz well, I'm tired of this immaturity. If I were dating her, or her BF even, and had to sit through a semester's worth of this immature crap (haha look at Guy friend, he's eating 5 sandwiches while he's waiting in the salad line), I think I'll shooot myself. Now I know why ppl don't go after freshmen, unless they're in it for the fling. ARGH EDIT: hmm I sound jealous. I AM jealous. I should respect their good friendship, which I do. But really, if deep down they like each other I don't want to waste my last semester chasing after a frigid confused girl. Last edited by match000; 12-01-2005 at 11:24 PM..

12-02-2005, 09:26 AM	#49 (permalink)
Martian Young Crumudgeon Location: Canada	Whoa, whoa, whoa! And you were doing so well too... What is it I keep saying? Confidence, my friend, confidence! Stop and ask yourself this : do you know that they like each other? What evidence have you seen that supports that? What evidence have you seen that contradicts it? Does she seem like the type who would use you to get to him? Remember, of crucial importance right now is that you not get too involved. If she digs you, she digs you. If she doesn't, then you can at least walk away saying you gave it your best shot. If you get too wrapped up in this girl your emotions will start to get in the way and you will end up hurt if she doesn't go for you. And if you start assuming that she likes someone else or that someone else likes her you're not even giving her the chance to reject you. You're doing it for her. Try this approach. Do you know that she likes him or that he likes her? No. You don't know that. You may suspect, but until you find them sucking each other's faces, you don't know. Is there an alternative explanation for their behaviour? Yeah, there is. You said that they're tightly knit, that they're all introverted, that none of them have really gotten to know anyone new in college and on top of all that they went to high school together and thus, have presumably been friends for a long time. It seems not only possible, but likely that they're just really good friends and that she thinks of him more as a brother than a boyfriend. So there's that. Now ask yourself what you're accomplishing by assuming that they are (or want to be) more than just friends? Does it impact your relationship with her in a constructive way? How about him (and if you want to be with her you need to be at least cordial to her friends)? Does it accomplish anything, anything at all other than causing you pain and grief and doubt? And if it doesn't, is that pain and grief and doubt really necessary? What purpose does it serve in your life? I'm not saying don't bear the possibility in mind. She may have made that decision and if you're prepared for it you can accept it if it comes. But there's a big difference between acknowledging the possibility of something and assuming it's the truth. Don't jump to that conclusion. There's no gain to be had in it. __________________ I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

12-02-2005, 04:10 PM	#50 (permalink)
match000 Psycho	Hi Martian, Thanks for keeping me on track.. again. I tend to fall into these negative mindsets don't I. The thing is, I was so sure in what I was thinking that I didn't even think of it as me being negative. You're right, my assumptions do nothing but only negatively impact my situation and mindset. And yes, good point about the attached part; getting to wrapped up means I will only end up hurt. Thanks man. As for an update, I convinced her to stay on campus this weekend instead of going home as usual (I wasn't annoying about it, only mentioned a few times and very short each time), and so we're going out to dinner and perhaps ice skating tonight (she asked "Why iceskating?" (she had just gone iceskating with friends this past weekend) and I said "we can do something else if u want."

12-02-2005, 05:12 PM	#51 (permalink)
Martian Young Crumudgeon Location: Canada	Good work, re: the iceskating. Now you need to use it to your advantage : what can you do with this to make your intentions clear? Her question makes me think she suspects why you decided on ice skating. That she agreed and other information makes me think she may be open to (and possibly even expecting) some sort of romantic advancement. Remember, subtlety isn't what you're going for hear. Flowers are a good option. So is a kiss, if the mood is right. Holding hands will almost definitely work for you this weekend, based on what you're telling me. I think you're getting a good idea as to how to proceed. It's up to you to gauge the mood and figure out what's going to work. Just carpe diem, my man. Don't worry about her rejecting you. Leave the fear and doubt and nervousness behind for now - find an actual physical container that you can put it in for now if you have to, so you can worry about it later. The onus is on you. Judging on what you've told us she almost definitely likes you, but she's definitely not going to make a move and she's not going to wait around forever. If you're going to do it, this weekend is prime time for it. Don't worry about who else is around either. If they don't know you, they don't matter. You'll never see them again, what do you care what they think? If they're friends of yours, they'll probably be rooting for you and if they're friends of her - well, they're probably still rooting for you. Everybody wants their friends to be happy. So stop worrying about doing it and just bloody well do it, y'know? __________________ I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

12-02-2005, 06:05 PM	#52 (permalink)
match000 Psycho	Thanks Martian. Those suggestiosn are really helpful. Carpe Diem. yes Thats why I checked the forum before I left (but leaving now...!)

12-02-2005, 06:27 PM	#53 (permalink)
Martian Young Crumudgeon Location: Canada	Good luck. We're pullin' for ya. __________________ I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

12-03-2005, 01:16 AM	#54 (permalink)
match000 Psycho	Thanks for the support! It means alot to me so, update: Well, this girl is like, giving me weird signals. Argh. We go out like we are dating, cuz she doesn't bring her friends along, but everytime I try to get romantic with some verbal liner, or simple physical stuff (simple to not put overt pressure, simple like bump, or quick pat), she doesn't reciprocate as if she wants to advance our relationship. For example, verbally she'll just kind of laugh it off or reply with something nice, but not flirtatious back. Physically, she'll let the smaller things happen (like bumps and stuff and still be walking closely), but once I tried the arm-around-shoulder as we were walking down a dark street, and I said "oh you're scared. Let me protect you (god I sound lame in retrospect)". She leaned away and then gave me a kind of O_o look, kind of like "we're friends, umm that's too touchy." err, i hope u get what i mean. And its annoying as hell. Because she likes me, but why stop every one of my advances. Or like, she's not helping me help her. I hope you see what I mean. I'm doing what you and Mantus suggested: don't push her, but help guide her, be supportive. But she's not helping me help her. Its really annoying. I paid for dinner and skating, which I don't mind. I know it goes against what Mantus says, but I am doing it cuz she is a newb and I have to really SCREAM that "THIS IS A DATE." I know you said "carpe diem", but I still didn't ballz up during skating and try to hold her hand. Partly because of all those stopping signals I got, as I described above. The only time we held hands was during the "couples only skate song", where the rink forced ppl to hold hands or get off (thanks rink!). Then after we walked halfway back I asked if she was still up for a movie (I had suggested it earlier, she had said "we'll see how tired I am after skating.") And she said no, she was tired and wanted to sleep. This was the first time she had ever said no to something I suggested to do. So I was really really disappointed. And, unfortunately, all my friends tell me when I'm sad/angry/brooding it is dead obvious written all over my face. So I think she knew, cuz the other half way back I just wasn't being myself. I tried really hard, but I just can't hide my dissapointment. I fell into the trap you warned me of, Martian. I set my expectations too high and in the end I burned myself. Even with the warnings you gave me (Which DID sink in), I still fell prey to them. Arggghhh I'm not sure what to do with this girl. I don't think its gonna happen before winter break, but it might happen next semester if I keep keep going. But she's like, a rock that keeps giving me mixed signals. In fact, noone knows the answer to this, but she could just be really not ready emotionally at all for a relationship her first year, no matter what. And she's just being naturally flirty cuz she's naturally good at it. And taht even if I keep going all of next semester I'll still get nowhere. Sorry for such a long rant, again. I am really confused myself. At this time, I am too busy with other things to fall prey to girl troubles. Yet here I am. Its cuz I made a concious decision that my life would change this semester: I will not remain a study/academic nerd, no matter how busy/important time it is. I also feel like my interest in her is going down. I keep doing all this, initiating everything, and I get these weird signals in return. She's not a hot model, I was attracted to her because she was cute enough, had a nice personality, and most importantly, showed interest. Ok, I ranted again. Sorry. All the best.. sitting here confused as hell. Thanks! Match EDIT: After she had said 'no' to movies, we were walking on the way back and we had bumped into my good friend. He said I was in 'stonewall' mode myself (evidently my dissapoint was written on my face), that she seemed perfectly fine and even quite happy (which I agree with), and that it was me who was being weird. Hmmm. It is true. Also, at the end, I had worked myself into such a weird dissapointment state that I didnt' even hug her at the door. There was a 1-2 second wait as she was going in, she was facing me with her back holding the door open. It was weird. Well, feel free to give me a FAIL, cuz I FAILED again, even with your excellent advice. Why didn't I ballz up, carpe diem, BE CONFIDENT, and at least HUG? Cuz, I suck. That's all I can say I fell into a total non-confidence vicious cycle that plunged me deeper and deeper. To be honest, at the end when we were parting I had worked myself into thinking I was totally going to stop with this girl. Like, its useless. No more. Moving on. Needless to say I take it back now. Argh Last edited by match000; 12-03-2005 at 01:31 AM..

12-03-2005, 01:37 AM	#55 (permalink)
match000 Psycho	My current state of mind is: I'm tired of having to second guess this girl at every turn. I'm not even "playing dating/flirting games". Neither is she (I certainly hope she isnt). You guys said patience is good. I will be rewarded later. No instant gratification. I kinda feel tempted to just forward the link to this thread to the girl, and like, let her see everything that I am thinking. Cuz, I'm tired of this... EDIT: I guess I am expecting too much. The most she can offer now is friendship, But I expect more. Guess it boils down to this.

12-03-2005, 02:09 AM	#56 (permalink)
match000 Psycho	Ok. After a long shower, I realize I need to: Chill the fuck out. She did stay here this weekend, although she said she stayed cuz of laundry, I think its cuz of my proposed date. Err, hopefully. Lol

12-03-2005, 07:51 AM	#57 (permalink)
Martian Young Crumudgeon Location: Canada	match000 - You didn't fail on the iceskating thing. In fact, I'd say you did really well. You did exactly what I told you to - you read the signs she was giving you and you acted on them. Nobody could've expected you to do any more; if she wasn't receptive, she wasn't receptive. You weren't going to change that by having more balls or being more chivalrous or anything. Don't let yourself get too caught up in this girl. It has to be okay with you if she's not interested. You can't expect to make an overnight change in the way you think or feel. You can't just say "I'm going to have the nerve to make a move and if she turns me down I'm going to be okay with that" and expect it to happen. Developing the right attitude takes time and everybody hits the roadblocks you're hitting. God knows I did. I'm going to be honest with you - you're back to square one now. If you decide to pursue this girl, know that you're doing it on the chance that she likes you and it's very possible that she doesn't. If she does, she's still going to need time. So you're back to that decision again; is she worth the time and effort? And if she is, will it be okay if it doesn't work out? Maybe she's not and maybe it won't and that's okay. Again to borrow popular wisdom, there are plenty of other fish in the sea. You're right, she may not be ready right now. Maybe won't be for a while. She could decide next week, next month or next year that she wants to be in a relationship. When she does it might not be with you. If it comes to that and she does choose somebody else, will you be okay with it? Just follow your instincts. All we have to judge by is what you give us. You're the only one who knows. Don't make yourself into the bad guy here. You may not have done everything perfect, but you did what you could. You are not a failure and you did not do anything wrong. A lot of this is up to her and if she makes up her mind you may just not be able to change that. __________________ I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

12-03-2005, 08:23 AM	#58 (permalink)
Sultana Falling Angel Location: L.A. L.A. land	This is how one gains experience. Don't fret, it's not your only chance at a gal for the rest of your life. However, I think that perhaps it's not a good idea for someone who is very near finishing one's college experience to pursue a relationship with one who is only just starting theirs. In general, I'd encourage you to learn to relax, stop over-analyzing, esp. in your realtionships with humans. They don't follow rules, everything is not quantifiable, you have instincts for a reason. Lastly, I feel this is a good life experience in practicing going with your gut, rather than with your head. __________________ "Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come." - Matt Groening My goal? To fulfill my potential.

12-03-2005, 02:24 PM	#60 (permalink)
match000 Psycho	Thanks for the advice guys. Feeling kind of down now, because: I bumped into her and her roommate at the school cafetaria this morning (right after our date last night). Boy, things seemed to be a total 180 degrees. Her roommate gave me the look that was like "uh oh, here he is. what's gonna happen." And the girl nicely said hi and stuff, but barely looked at me during the conversation and mostly talked and looked at her roommate. I was trying my best to be friendly (I decided to drop this one and be friends). It looks like she's totally lost interest too. I'm just baffled how there could be such a 180 degree turn over one night. I mean, at the end it was so obvious that something was wrong. It seemed like she was sad or annoyed or mad at me or something. Or like we're not even friends anymore. Its WEIRD. Edit: update: i asked her over IM and apparently she's feeling sick. Right... Last edited by match000; 12-03-2005 at 03:09 PM..

12-03-2005, 06:27 PM	#61 (permalink)
Martian Young Crumudgeon Location: Canada	Remember, I told you she had a choice to make? Whether she wanted to take a risk? Well, sounds like she made it. Sorry. I know that you're hurting, but try to see the positives : you've learned a lot about how to approach a girl, you've been rejected and now you know it's not the end of life. The next one will be that much easier. __________________ I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

12-04-2005, 09:12 AM	#64 (permalink)
keyshawn Psycho	Match000, mantus, and the other contributors: Thanks for sharing your experiences ! Right now, I feel like I'm in the same shoes as match000, except both of us are college freshman. And I'm confused as hell as for how to approach my situation... [to be honest, I haven't had too many relationships]. I'm not sure if I actually waited too long for mine, which I bit regret, but I'm trying to walk a fine line of continuing this relationship and keeping myself open for other opportunities Sorry, not to sidetrack the thread, I just wanted to chime in on my thoughts: I have a somewhat similar experience in my college time so far (after one quarter, as a freshman). Her some of my experiences so far. I'm not sure how much/what type of experiences/past relationships she's had. Neither of us have probed each other on these issues of past relationships. I haven't directly put her on the spot [in terms of asking her about the level of commitment to the relationship] but I'm not sure if I should have already or not, since I've known her for about 10 weeks now. She's given me mixed responses to any sort of moves I make. A couple times I've attempted to put my arm around her and she won't reciprocate but she doesn't communicate (vocally or body language) to remove it. However, sometimes when I've did this, her best friend (also a girl and a friend of mine as well) is with us too, and they almost always hold hands together, although I'm pretty sure it's just done in a mutual friend, playful fashion (that is, I don't believe neither of them are attracted to their sex). Also, We're all in a group of friends of about 6 girls, and one other guy. I asked the other guy about if it was obvious that I've made moves on her and showed my interest. He said it wasn't obvious and actually didn't know that I liked her (although I think that maybe because he has not been there some of the time I've made moves. Other moves that I've made are like sitting next to her when watching a movie or TV when the group is together (although I don't do this all the time) or just flirting with her during conversations (which often, is actually more successful in reciprocation than physical moves). Anyways, I did (now in retrospect) have the chance to probably make a move. About a month, we watched a movie together (actually the only time we've did alone) (all the other times, it's a group viewing). We watched Crash, while I never put my arm around her, we snuggled near each other and after, slept remaining in the same position . No moves, by either of us, were made....(I suppose I should have made one then, in hindsight). Generally, we hang out together (in the group) about a few days a week. Now, it's winter break for us, the entire month of December, and I don't know how to approach the relationship when we come back in january. I know I totally rambled on this, right now, I'm just trying to collect all of my thoughts and wonder where I should go from here.... Advice for match000: Anyways, in one of my past few relationships: at the time, summertime, in the fall i'd be a h.s. senior, she'd be a h.s. frosh. She totally fell for me, so I had no problems with working for that. However, I found out from our mutual friends that this was her first ever relationship of any sort, and she had no idea of how to go. Further, her parents were a bit protective. As soon as the school year began, we driftly off in our own directions very quickly. What I took from this limited experience, is that such a gap of age [senior-frosh] actually really makes a difference, given how rapidly teenagers and young adults can mature in a matter of a year or two. Even though she (and probably your female as well) was mature for her age, there were still some intangibles (can't really put my finger of what exactly) that, I'd noticed very subtle things that display the different levels of maturity between us. As much as I would have liked to relationship the succeed; I soon realized, that, at this time, a real relationship or dating really wouldn't work, given the maturity differences between us two. Of course, I had a brief period of 'what if the relationship would work later on...' and I'd say don't worry about any of the 'what ifs.' You might miss another opportunity that would come up.... Good luck to each of us, and thanks again to everyone's advice who have been down the paths that match000 and I are walking down right down right now. catcha back on the flipside, will. __________________ currently reading: currently playing : Last edited by keyshawn; 12-04-2005 at 09:32 AM.. Reason: clarification, will edit more later.

12-04-2005, 09:31 AM	#65 (permalink)
match000 Psycho	Hi Keyshawn, I'm glad that my similar experience can help with yours too. Thanks for sharing your previous experience. As you know, I'm not really experienced enough to be able to give you advice on what you could or should do. However, I do know from what I've just gone through that, no matter how 'special' you think the girl is (I had thought like, 'oh this one's special cuz she really likes me'), that if you go out of your way to accomodate their interest (ie initiating everything, being the one doing all the work, and generally just turning goo-goo ga-ga for her, tring to impress her, etc), that she'll just lose interest in a snap. Literally. Like, with the girl I was after, I think she lost it over a week of my actions, but her reaction and attitude changed on the surface, literally, OVER ONE NIGHT. She doesn't even bother being friendly at all, over IM. Its like, stonewalls me with one-liners. Immature freshmen It doesn't matter how much she likes you now. It could all change very very fast. Be aware, and that doesn't mean suck up to her extra. It actually means distance yourself a little more sometimes, 'try' other girls out, and yeah, don't fall prey to the tunnel-vision I got. I know its hard to believe, but once you've gone through it like I did you'll know what I mean (I hope you won't have to though). Regarding what actually happened between the two of you, I think that its a very very good sign that you guys 'slept' in that position. That has to mean she's very comfortable with you and wants something a little more intimate. Again, from my previous experience, do NOT let this sign get all into your head, and don't let it make you become goo-goo ga-ga and become a total wuss to her. Wuss is not the traditional wuss, more like what I quoted above from David DeAngelo: Doing everything, trying to impress her (you might try this as you flirt more and she doesn't respond, you won't know what to do so you'll say things to make yourself look good. I know I did, don't make that mistake), and etc. All the best to you, I hope it works out, Match EDIT: One more thing I wanted to say is, you are also a college freshman. I think its great that you already 'got it' and are trying to go after girls (I didn't up to now because I was concerned with grades). You have plenty of time, so take your time (not necessarily regarding this girl, but in general), you are not in a 'rush' like I am. EDIT2: Also, I kind of fell victim to the whole 'oh she really likes me, she's so special' thing. Ask yourself, do you really like her? Or are you just talking yourself into it because she showed interest alot in you first? In any case, I think trying to start a relationship on the first girl that showed interest is also really bad (which is what I tried to pull). Of course, I had talked myself into and ended up liking her alot, as you can tell... I guess just another thing to think about. Last edited by match000; 12-04-2005 at 09:55 AM..

12-07-2005, 11:19 PM	#66 (permalink)
match000 Psycho	If I want to just be friends with the girl, is it better to just get it out into the open. Ask her something like: "Hey I'm sorry for trying to be your boyfriend, we should just be friends." or something like that? Or is it better to play it totally cool and not talk about it, but just not be flirty and just treat her as a friend?

12-07-2005, 11:42 PM	#67 (permalink)
Martian Young Crumudgeon Location: Canada	Don't try to confront her on it. She knows what you wanted and it's not what she wanted. Just let it happen; don't try to force anything, but don't pull away from her either. If you can, try to go back to how it was before you started showing interest. You don't have to tell her that you want to be her friend. You just have to be her friend. Also, don't do it in the hopes that 'she'll come around' or anything like that. Do it because you want to be friends with her, or not at all. __________________ I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame