A limiting relationship, and sexual evolution

[Vigilante]

Hey folks

This is a long read, so if you TLDR then I understand.

I've been married for nearly 14 years, and we're deeply in love. We always have been. I'm nearly 35, she just turned 33 and we've been together since high school. There is this one nagging thing though - sex drive. You could say my wife's sex drive is orders of magnitude less than mine. This has always been the case.

I've been masturbating for 20 years, and I somehow imagined that when I got married, I wouldn't have to do it as often. Ha. Admittedly I don't do it 4 or 5 times a day any more, but I still do it daily. My wife doesn't masturbate at all and has sex once every 2 weeks or so. I would be insane if I tried to keep that schedule. My brand of kink is extremely varied and wild, while she only kind of goes along for the ride when she feels my fantasies are tolerable. You could say, on sex, she has no opinion other than "no".

So after years of trying to wake up her hidden slut, I broke down recently. It's hard to explain, but I'll try. My internal conflict lies in the fact that I feel defined in some way by my sexual desires and what I can or can not do, while remaining in the constraints of my wife's ideas on what sex is. Obviously this causes issues, which I internalize completely because I happen to love everything else we share in life. Once every couple of years or so, I have to talk about this with her, the goal of which is to try to get her to try something new, maybe get her hooked, like me. So far, I have found nothing.

Recently we were discussing 3somes and she mentioned jokingly "It's not fair, would you let me have sex with a guy?" After some thought, I think I surprised her because actually, yes, I would. This was always her safety question in the past, the one I could never agree to in her mind, so of course a 3some would not be possible. However, once I really considered it during the summer, it became a really big fantasy of mine. I've never wanted anything more than for her to get super raunchy, and maybe, just maybe, another guy giving her some extra attention would turn her out, you know? Plus I have a repressed bisexual side that finds this fascinating. I would love to go as far as watching her get gang-banged, and join in after it gets sloppy and lose all inhibition. So, really, having another guy in the mix sounds like some major fun. I don't care how it goes, either MFM or MMF, but I would really like to see her ride a cock besides my own, and finish on him too.

I brought this up recently, when we were traveling to vegas during the summer. I suggested we go hit the strip in vegas and see if she can find someone she likes, maybe see if he's cool then see if he's down for some action (protected of course). She wouldn't hear of it.

I brought this up again recently, sharing details of how much fun we could have swapping positions and all, and asked her to think about it for a while. She did, and promptly tried to forget about it. All the while, I couldn't get the thought out of my head, sometimes waking up horny as shit and having to rub one out. I'm here typing at 4:30AM for this reason tonight, actually. Last night was just a random time to ask, after about a month, what she came up with.
Her: "I don't really want to do that."
Me: "That's ok. I know it's a real personal topic so yeah I'm not going to pressure you."
Her: "I just didn't bring it up again because I didn't want to argue."
Then it was like the conversation didn't happen. It has been like this for everything kinky. Just "no". Can we do this? No. That? No. Wanna try this? No. It's like a kid asking an angry nun for a piece of candy: NO.

Now I'm not saying that we don't have fun when we have sex. For instance she put on a body stocking recently for the first time, and we went at it like animals. Hey that was great, but afterward I was thinking how awesome it would be if that wasn't my load dripping out of her when she stood up, and how hard she would cum if I was licking her all over her neck and boobs (her favorite) while she was getting pounded from behind (also her favorite) by another guy she was attracted to.

Sometimes I wonder if it's just me. Maybe I'm fucking crazy. Or maybe it's because I grew up in a strict household and some part of me still wants to defy the establishment. Maybe it's because I don't feel threatened by open sex, even in marriage. Not open relationships, mind you, just swinging and shared kink. Maybe it's because I do have some bisexual side, however difficult to admit even on the web, that I want to explore further, and this is a way of doing that.

Who knows. Hopefully this gives you some idea of my internal conflict. After years of this, I broke down a few weeks ago and took a day off of work to try to redefine myself and how I define sex and self image. I would do this for the one I love, if I could. However after a mental roller coaster ride for 2 days, I found myself realizing that I have not been asking her to compromise, but rather I have been compromising myself when faced with her brick wall. I told her that, and she agreed. I was a bit surprised when she took my hand and asked me to lead her, but now she is falling back into her old habits.

I am afraid that this won't last. She may be shocked when this keeps up and I finally tell her I'm continuing on my path whether she joins me or not. All I ask is "try it, and leave it if you don't like it". But the angry nun in her says "No" every time. Damn that catholic upbringing. Her mind is not open to anything new, yet I seek new experiences everywhere I go.

I'm 34 now. How many more years do I have of real sexual potential before I become just another dirty old man? Sometimes I feel like the clock is ticking, and I don't want to leave this life with regrets, of things I wish I had done, but didn't.

Who can relate to this? How did you resolve it, or did you?

[Iliftrocks]

So you can't think of anything else but sex, and with multiple partners, and all she wants is to have a relationship with you with occasional sex? It occurs to me that she might feel more secure in the relationship without all of those other potential sex partners in the room with you both. You are trying to have a relationship that she doesn't want.

You have a choice here, and that is to accept her lack of drive, and give up your wild fantasy life, which seems to be destructive to your relationship, or give up the relationship, for her sake. She's already given you her answer on the sex. Quit pushing.

[Plan9]

I'm with ILiftRocks, bro. People don't change. And after two decades, you really can't expect her to change. If she wasn't into that kinky stuff within a few years of being married, she's definitely not going to do it now. You're wasting your time and damaging your relationship with her by constantly pressuring her to do things she doesn't want to do. You're also cheating yourself. If freaky sex is such a priority that you feel unfulfilled in your relationship (my soul is empty because my prostate goes untouched!), you need to see if she'll let you do your thing outside your marriage or d-bomb.

I think a lot of younger married guys are in the same boat with their partners. Hell, you could say that I'm there. I'm with a Good Woman because so much of what is important in life (and relationships) is non-sexual. Sense of humor, education, hobbies, paychecks, physical fitness, daily living habits, goals for the future, etc. But she's not the best sex partner I've had by a long shot and I have come to terms with that. She's just not the kinda girl that wants a pommeling in the alternate love canal as candle wax is dripped on her tits. I won't be participating in a threesome with this girl. I accept that.

When I return to Earth next year and take a look at my life again, I'm sure I'll be a little irked that yet another year has gone by where I haven't motorboated two sets of breasts within 5 seconds... but I'll have a decent partner that takes care of the house while I'm away and loves me for who I am. Maybe there is a girl out there that'll be super kinky as well as loyal to the relationship. Do I want to waste more years looking for her? Not yet.

Turns out life is like that... you pick a priority and roll with it. Sometimes priorities change. If you really do love her and things are good everywhere else in life, you're going to have to make a sexual sacrifice. If you can't settle for a life like that, you gotta take your raging hard-on down the road elsewhere.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try, sometimes you'll find, you get what you need.

[Xazy]

I am going out on a limb here but do you watch a lot of porn. It made me think of the thread by MrFriendly. I do think that we have all been affected by Porn, it skewers are vision, changes our fantasies.

You are not going to change your wife, it is something you have to realize and accept. Then you have to evaluate yourself what you want, and consider where this desire stems from. I do not know if porn is part of the issue here, but I do wonder. Either way you have a choice but if you continue to push it, do not be surprised when this becomes a major issue in your marriage.

[Plan9]

Originally Posted by Xazy

I do think that we have all been affected by Porn, it skewers are vision, changes our fantasies.

Say what? Not necessarily. I mean, I've never once felt the desire to urinate on my partner or engage in rope bondage despite the fact that you have to wade through that kinda stuff to get to your particular taste if you've spent even fifteen minutes browsing pornography in the last fifteen years.

My sexual tastes haven't changed in the last ten years; I've been engaging in the same types of activities for the last decade. While watching porn.

I feel that suggesting that porn comes first in the sexual desires flow chart is incorrect.

So, yeah, just because you see it doesn't mean you'll want it.

...

Let's not derail this perfectly good thread with the "Tastes Great" vs. "Less Filling" porn debate, okay? Pinky swear?

[Vigilante]

Originally Posted by Xazy

I am going out on a limb here but do you watch a lot of porn. It made me think of the thread by MrFriendly. I do think that we have all been affected by Porn, it skewers are vision, changes our fantasies.

You are not going to change your wife, it is something you have to realize and accept. Then you have to evaluate yourself what you want, and consider where this desire stems from. I do not know if porn is part of the issue here, but I do wonder. Either way you have a choice but if you continue to push it, do not be surprised when this becomes a major issue in your marriage.

Actually I don't watch any porn.

[Plan9]

Originally Posted by Vigilante

Actually I don't watch any porn.

This is your first problem. Every day millions of normal, healthy men watch porn instead of dying inside over their mediocre sex life.

[Baraka_Guru]

Porn is an artificial substitute for polyamory.

Video games are an artificial substitute for warring.

And still I wonder...why aren't there more men's studies programs in universities?

You won't likely live up to your sexual desires. I never will.

Either watch porn and be satisified with fantasy, or find someone who will fulfill your most desired...desires....

Bear in mind that there is no such thing as the perfect woman. You will likely never get everything you want, and you will likely never be truly satisfied with what you think you want.

But that's life. C'est la vie.

[Vigilante]

Originally Posted by Plan9

This is your first problem. Every day millions of normal, healthy men watch porn instead of dying inside over their mediocre sex life.

Yeah but you know, I'm not much of a sports watcher either. Something about being a spectator bores me. I'd rather live it.

I'm not saying I don't look at porn. Sure, I have a membership to TFPEZ just like everyone else. You'll see how often I post, too. Not too often, unless I'm bored and in the mood for naked chicks LOL.

You know, you peeps are right in that I shouldn't push her, but she's got so much potential that she just keeps locked inside. See, I knew her when we were in high school; she wasn't always so prude. There was a time when she was wilder and more risque', but some psychological switch flipped a while after we started dating.

I honestly do not see why I should not feel like I can have my wife with wild sex. All I'm asking, like I said, is "try it". I don't see the harm in that.

[Plan9]

Originally Posted by Vigilante

Sure, I have a membership to TFPEZ just like everyone else.

The what?

...

I can see the circular argument of this thread forming. Right now it's a ( shape, soon it'll be a C... once someone mentions watching porn with your wife.

...

Originally Posted by Vigilante

I honestly do not see why I should not feel like I can have my wife with wild sex. All I'm asking, like I said, is "try it". I don't see the harm in that.

Okay, let's use your logic:

Originally Posted by Your Logic

All I'm asking, like I said, is "Try it".

And all she's saying is, "No."

/thread

...

It's been my experience that if you have a sober conversation about your sexual desires in a serious relationship that you'll find the limits and boundaries pretty quick. It takes some maturity. You can't be bashful or play head games. Just lay it out there for your partner to respond to with feedback. Based on your original post and I what I've read from you in the past, you've done that already. Accept her choice. She's not a superfreak.

...

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

Bear in mind that there is no such thing as the perfect woman. You will likely never get everything you want, and you will likely never be truly satisfied with what you think you want.

*insert Baskin-Robbins-based sex partners / flavors joke*

...

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

And still I wonder...why aren't there more men's studies programs in universities?

Men haven't been thoroughly trashed enough to warrant such classes quite yet.

...

Originally Posted by Baraka_Boohoo

You won't likely live up to your sexual desires. I never will.

You know what your problem is, pal? You justify your complacency.

[Baraka_Guru]

Originally Posted by Plan9

Men haven't been thoroughly trashed enough to warrant such classes quite yet.

See, that's the problem. People don't see it. The men are all all right, right? But that's a story for another thread.

Originally Posted by FlanNein

You know what your problem is, pal? You justify your complacency.

Don't mistake complacency with irresolution.

[Vigilante]

Originally Posted by Plan9

Based on your original post and I what I've read from you in the past, you've done that already. Accept her choice. She's not a superfreak.

Perhaps you're right. I don't know if you've noticed, but I tend to shape the world around me, rather than accept it for what it is. Some people call it stubbornness. I don't. I expect it and wish I saw it more often from the general population. I may just have to move on to other thoughts and desires.

[Plan9]

It's the same goddamn thing, Baraka.

And... ugh, flan is disgusting.

[Baraka_Guru]

No way, 9er. Complacency implies satisfaction, irresolution usually comes with torment.

[Plan9]

Don't dictionary me. I figure you must be satisfied... you're not moving toward your goal.

Originally Posted by Vigilante

Perhaps you're right. I don't know if you've noticed, but I tend to shape the world around me, rather than accept it for what it is. Some people call it stubbornness. I don't. I expect it and wish I saw it more often from the general population. I may just have to move on to other thoughts and desires.

Uh, you mean "self-centered," right? Turns out a ton of people are self-centered. I am.

And, yes, you're going to need to appreciate your wife for what she is instead of isn't.

My current partner appreciates me for my witty jokes and ignores my lack of a penis.

[Baraka_Guru]

What are you talking about? I don't have a goal. There is no satisfaction.

You can't apply logic where there is none. I know, I'm an idiot. But let's keep focus here. This is about Vigilante, not me.

[EventHorizon]

back to Vigilante's problem...

its obvious you love your wife very much, would it be possible for you and her to agree to set you out once in awhile to cut loose with all of your desires?

i'm making a HUGE assumption, and if i offend you, i apologize ahead of time, that you might be willing to have sex with other women. if she's satisfied having sex once every couple of weeks and you still want more, if you both agree too it, you should go out and make sure you're satisfied as well.

like Plan9 said, theres so much more than sex that people get married for. You're making sure she's happy. In my humble (and probably immoral and incorrect) opinion you should make yourself happy as well.

[snowy]

Ever thought about discussing this with a third party (besides us) to break yourselves out of the stalemate you've found yourself in? You might consider looking for a marital/family therapist with a background in sex therapy. Even if you can't ultimately resolve the issue, therapy may help you to come to terms with why it is the way it is, and help your wife express why she isn't interested in sex all that much.

[Vigilante]

EventHorizon, no offense taken, of course

One time years ago she mentioned letting me have sex with others, through tears. I of course rejected that. I still do, to an extent. I would much prefer that she partake in the fun with me. I would have to have given up to do otherwise.

There really is so much more than sex to this. We are deeply in love, but I crave the intimacy of sex, and the trust of sharing in fantasies.

We have discussed marriage counseling, but only for minutes at a time.

[Cimarron29414]

Vig-

I would ask your wife two questions:

"When you think of sex, what is your immediate feeling/reaction?"
"Why do you have sex?" (Notice, it doesn't say "Why do you have sex with me?")

Give her as much time as she needs to think about it and give you answers, although it's okay to check-in and ask if she has an answer yet. Don't respond to her answers, just say thanks and that you want to process that. Then, move on to another topic.

I suspect her current feelings on sex are anxiety/disappointment in self. I would imagine that her reasons for stem from obligation and guilt. She might want to feel loved, accepted, safe in sex etc. Instead, she might feel cheap, judged, like a failure etc.

If you want to unlock her sexually, for some time you have to focus on what she wants to get out of sex, rather than what you want. You have to reprogram her negative impression of her sex life into a positive one by making it fulfilling to her needs. Only when she feels safe in that arena will she relax enough to explore.

Most important, you can never cross the boundaries where she feels safe. The first time you try to sneak a finger in her butt "just to try it", you are back to square one. You can only do what she asks for. It starts by listening, not speaking. It's crystal clear what YOU want out of sex. You need to forget about that for a while.

[guy44]

Originally Posted by snowy

Ever thought about discussing this with a third party (besides us) to break yourselves out of the stalemate you've found yourself in? You might consider looking for a marital/family therapist with a background in sex therapy. Even if you can't ultimately resolve the issue, therapy may help you to come to terms with why it is the way it is, and help your wife express why she isn't interested in sex all that much.

Seconded. You seem like a textbook case of a couple in need of a family, marital, or sex therapist.

Also, I don't know if I believe in this advice, but if I channel my inner Dan Savage I would say that if you two fail to achieve a reasonable sex life after making a real effort at therapy, you have to consider different options. Sex isn't something that should be grudgingly handed over by one partner as rarely as possible. Furthermore, sex is an integral part of a relationship and it's absence is not something that can be overlooked. In that case, my guess is Savage would tell you to either find your sex elsewhere (pay for it or through no-strings-attached relationships) or seek a divorce.

I wish you luck.

[EventHorizon]

guy44, i have to disagree with you. marriage is still very possible in the absence of sex. i believe there is some form of judaism where the husband is only allowed to make love to his wife via a hole in, for lack of a better term, a blanket, and even then only for reproductive purposes. it may not be very typical, but it is possible and certainly no grounds for divorce.

not to mention that as he already stated above, he loves her very much, enough for two decades of companionship. people get married out of love, not for the sex.

[Manic_Skafe]

Vig, I can kinda see where Xazy is coming from and while it may not be the porn, having cultivated the sort of sexual appetite that needs to be fed daily hardly puts you in the position to fairly determine as to whether or not the problems stem from you or your wife. I'm in full agreement with all of those who've stated that the both of you need therapy but I can't help but to wonder how much responsibility you assume for what's wrong and what personal transformations you've undergone for the sake of fixing what's broken.

I can relate by having been exactly where you are now - thinking I was working toward fixing what was wrong by encouraging deeper and deeper exploration of our fantasies and sexual limits while failing to realize that I was only making things worse through the application of insane amounts of pressure on her which served only to kill the communication that much further and further down the cycle we went.

I too regularly used porn as an escape from the fact that bedding the same person every single night could only be but so interesting and would never offer the variation and excitement of sleeping with all of the images I was consuming. It seems obvious but in a lot of ways, all you can do to keep it interesting is space it out.

...

I could be way off the mark but I doubt it. Stop beating it everyday, stop pushing her and see what remains. It's probably a hell of a lot more than you can currently see.

[Pearl Trade]

Originally Posted by EventHorizon

guy44, i have to disagree with you. marriage is still very possible in the absence of sex. i believe there is some form of judaism where the husband is only allowed to make love to his wife via a hole in, for lack of a better term, a blanket, and even then only for reproductive purposes. it may not be very typical, but it is possible and certainly no grounds for divorce.

not to mention that as he already stated above, he loves her very much, enough for two decades of companionship. people get married out of love, not for the sex.

Actually, in mainstream marriages, which would be 99.9% of all married couples, I'd say that without sex, the marriage ceases to fucntion. I'm sure that most members on this board would agree, as I've heard it countless times: without sex, there is no relationship.

Sex is important in marriage.

[Plan9]

Originally Posted by Manic_Skafe

Good stuff.

Yeah. Basically, he's saying you're like a flat tire calling the truck broken.

[cadre]

After reading this, I've decided that you and I are a lot alike Vigilante. My fiancé loves sex and has about the same sex drive as me however. Like you though, I really want to try new things and my fiancé is fairly conservative. We've been together five years with one break about two years ago.

If you're happy with your relationship other than the sex part and you want to make it work then I would see if you can get her to compromise. Marriage counseling is another option here. But, if you're unhappy and your wife won't budge you may need to consider how long you will be able to compromise on what you really want.

By the way, what happens when she has a few drinks and then you propose something?

[Plan9]

I'm not an expert, but I'm pretty sure using booze to assist someone in doing something they wouldn't do when they're sober is a Bad Relationship Idea.

Weird coming from someone with your background.

[Vigilante]

Cadre, drinks don't really loosen her up. She can be a happy drunk, but her perceived moral compass runs much deeper that booze. She has very deep concerns with branching out, such as STDs. I told her it's reasonable to meet people and even to ask that they get screened. Or, as common sense dictates, wear protection. She just locks up and digs in her heels. I do believe it's not going to happen at this point. Her notions of fantasy are undeveloped and almost nonexistent, which confounds me as I've had 20 years of wacking off to something new every week to work with. We are polar opposites in this regard.

Part of this stems from me trying to open her up to my fantasy life recently. I think it's just too much for her to take in. I just got tired of hiding my thoughts from her, like someone embarrassed of his desires. I felt we were at a point where we could grow and develop this together, but maybe not. In pretty much all aspects of our lives we are one person, but in this regard we are two separate individuals, and this happens to be a crucial link in our chain, to me anyways.

We got married young and she had self esteem issues from childhood. She finally got to a point that she feels attractive, but that little girl is still sad inside. I've done everything I can to help her there and she's mostly worked through it, but she still keeps her guard up on sex and how it "should be", and how much she lets loose when she does have sex. I've never felt nails dig into my back and I've never experienced my cock being worshiped. She hates performing a BJ and cum grosses her out. If I go down on her, she refuses to kiss me. It's a shame because she is SO HOT and I want to hit that like a wild man every day of the week, but she doesn't feel the craving like I do. I feel like a performance car designed to race at 200mph, but only used for the more practical purpose of getting groceries in a retirement community.

LOL @ flat tire. Concerning me, could there be something wrong with me? Sure. I'm not addicted to drugs, cigs or alcohol. I don't really even think I'm addicted to sex. I do have balls though, and with that is some measure of required periodic release. I also happen to have a very active mind, so that plays a role as well. I do have some level of mental instability, perhaps from unresolved anger from childhood beatings, abandonment, rejection and perhaps even from testosterone. I like to think I am mostly over the childhood stuff, but at times I can explode into a rage instantly if prodded, and I still have near-real momentary flashbacks. This is not common and only under times of severe stress, but the rage is there, sure. That doesn't come into our sex life though, and for that matter doesn't really come into our marriage. I get angry at normal levels just like anyone else, but I don't yell at my wife or take it out on those around me. I do bury some sadness though, perhaps related to what I experienced as a child, and perhaps on some level due to what I perceive as an incomplete life. I have so many things I want to do, but no money or time to do them. I spend 12 hours a day getting to and from work, then eat, watch some tv and hit the sack. Perhaps I am suffering from cabin fever and/or pure boredom. That definitely seems to play a role. The more bored I get, the more I want to do something different. Thinking about it, that definitely plays a role.

It's midnight and I get up in 6 hours, so I'm heading to bed. Pick this all apart and give me some feedback if you feel like it. BTW thanks for the thoughts, this helps me hash things out.

[cadre]

Originally Posted by Plan9

I'm not an expert, but I'm pretty sure using booze to assist someone in doing something they wouldn't do when they're sober is a Bad Relationship Idea.

Weird coming from someone with your background.

Quiet you.

I wasn't saying rape her while she's passed out. Duh. What I meant was what are her inhibitions like when she let's her guard down? Sound like it doesn't make a difference in this case though.

Vigilante, I would suggest marriage counseling. I believe you can find a therapist that specializes in this kind of problem. It sounds like one or both of you have some sexual dysfunctions to work through.

Don't worry, you're not alone. And if you find a good therapist, get me a card.

[Plan9]

Originally Posted by cadre

Quiet you.

Eat me.

...

I really do hope things work out for you, Vigilante. Life is too short to be wanting without relief for so long. No wonder you're bouncing off the walls. I'm also glad that I read this thread because it reminds me to be gently assertive when I return to Earth and find myself confronted with that age old dilemma of: "How far is too fast, how fast is too far?" Being gone for a long time causes sex communication issues like whoa.

[Vigilante]

Word. I do believe we may be heading down that road (counseling), but right now the lows are followed by highs so I'm kind of watching for where the plateau lands.

[Ourcrazymodern?]

You land on the plateau, or she picks up the pieces after you skid off the edge & decides what to do with them. When I was with my wife we didn't talk about what either of us wanted & you notice the past tense in that. If you want to keep her you let your love make you do whatever the hell she says she wants, realizing that it's likely to change. Any "errant" desires on your part will likely go away in a couple decades.

[Plan9]

Decades. That's a good way to live your life.

[John$]

I have a far out point of view on this. I doubt any of the guys would agree with me but some of the ladies may relate.

In my view, men do not listen to women when she talks to them. As I see it, listening is the art of noticing not just what a person is saying but also what they are not saying. It is the degree of noticing and relating to that person's feelings and points of view.

Now I mention this because I suspect that the OP's issues are not about sex but they are about the connectedness between him and his loved one.

Once a woman feels, and that is a very internal sense for her, that you are interested in her, she will be more inclined to have fun with you.

John

[EventHorizon]

Interesting point John$

besides the sex, hows the rest of the romance Vig?

[Xerxys]

^^ Interesting point? Really? Cause I don't think John$ post said anything at all. that kind of psychobable just doesn't work in real life.

I think Vigilante has said everything he needed to say coherently and sufficiently covered the other aspects of his relationship with his wife.

[Manic_Skafe]

I call bullshit on pretty much everything John$ posted above and it grosses me out to think of how many dudes have to grapple with that sort of thinking on a regular basis. Men and women do communicate differently but thinking you have some right to hold your partner accountable for perceiving something you can't open up your mouth and express is just plain retarded.

Originally Posted by Vigilante

LOL @ flat tire. Concerning me, could there be something wrong with me? Sure. I'm not addicted to drugs, cigs or alcohol. I don't really even think I'm addicted to sex. I do have balls though, and with that is some measure of required periodic release. I also happen to have a very active mind, so that plays a role as well.

Not sure if it was intended to but this hardly addresses what I posted above.

Good luck to you, Vig.

[zbier8293313]

Originally Posted by Manic_Skafe

I call bullshit on pretty much everything John$ posted above and it grosses me out to think of how many dudes have to grapple with that sort of thinking on a regular basis. Men and women do communicate differently but thinking you have some right to hold your partner accountable for perceiving something you can't open up your mouth and express is just plain retarded.



Not sure if it was intended to but this hardly addresses what I posted above.

Good luck to you, Vig.

Great post!
Vig, sound like you are describing my relationship of 13 years. Me 35, her 34. I understand you 100%. I wish I could give you a solution. This month I finaly gave up and told her its over. She always told me give me time, take it slow, be understanding. After a while she stooped even saying that and started blaming me! I do watch porn, not ashamed about it, and she used the 'porn' argument. I guess she read that issue of cosmo, blame a guy when you are shi$#ty lay.
We are compatible everywhere but sex (money/ed/likes/humor and on and on). She does by some standards quite a lot ..... Sorry let me ref-raze that she let me do these things TO HER. Her first answer was always NO, and if I insisted she went along, otherwise missionary 100% of the time. But I love her and you want the other person to want to do things with you, you want the woman in your life to please you as much as you want to please her. Just doing is like that run of the mill cheap porn scene. I came to realization that she needs very little in therms of sex to be satisfied , unfortunate thing is she uses that same standard to measure my satisfaction. She had great potential but I was unable to get her out of her shell. Every time she made a small step forward it was followed by 2 steps back.
Before some people attack me let me give you some examples: first bj I got from her (21 at the time) I had to put a blanket over a night stand lamp and close all shades/blinds. It was dark outside and she made it so dark inside I did not even see her. Example#2, in 13 years she purchased only 1 outfit, a corset with stalking that she put on maybe 5 times if that. I can go on and on.
Great body very slim, great boobs amazing hips, what a waste....

[EventHorizon]

i may have missed this in an earlier post, but did you try directly asking her why she wont have wild sex?

something like this:

Vig: *wild sex pitch*
Her: "No"
Vig: "why not?"

[Xerxys]

Originally Posted by EventHorizon

i may have missed this in an earlier post, but did you try directly asking her why she wont have wild sex?

something like this:

Vig: *wild sex pitch*
Her: "No"
Vig: "why not?"

Yes, yes you did miss it. It was properly articulated (which bring me to another point, I hate you Vigilante for being well spoken) Event Horizon, read the OP again.