Vigilante

Xerxys, you always have a way with words that makes me laugh

Zbier, I feel the frustration in your words and wish your relationship could have worked out. Your relationship is, or perhaps was, very close to mine. I too have felt some measure of anger many times, but realized recently that I was using her desire for sex as a measure of myself, which brought about a feeling of insult. I felt like a failure of a man for not "driving her wild". This was amplified by my knowing that she has a wild side, however repressed that may be. Perhaps it has evolved over time to other manifestations besides sexual, such as her tattoos, dyed hair, etc.

One thing I didn't mention before is that up until recently she was always giving chase, like a girl teasing, then shying away. Often it was more me chasing her like a dog chasing a parked car. For instance, I would walk up behind her in the morning when we're getting ready for work and grab her boob lightly while hugging her from behind, and she would snap at me and tell me to stop. Sometimes it would be like that, and sometimes it was lighter but still irritating, to me. She thought putting up a fight was cute, in some way. After years of that I told her with my recent breakdown that I wasn't going to play that game any more. If she pushes me away, away I will walk. I demonstrated that 2 days later when she habitually pushed me away and I just turned around and left the kitchen. She asked why I left and I reminded her that I will simply walk away from that crap. She got the hint, and now she is more open to flirty grabs, and actually seems to enjoy it, now that she's tried playing on the other side of the fence. She even does some grabbing of her own, to which I eagerly accept.

That's an example of what I've been talking about, as well. This is where I say "Just try it" and lo and behold, she enjoys it. I would never lead her down the wrong path intentionally, but I am an experimenter at heart. Some paths, while not meant to be done twice, are worth trying once. That thought process is one way that I define myself. For example if I am presented with a massive buffet of exotic foods, I will get small samples of everything so that I can try it all. I am not the buffoon at an expensive Thai restaurant that eats the hunan beef and follows it up with cheesecake while shying away from the real dishes that define the joint. What a waste of an experience. That way of thinking permeates nearly all aspects of my life. I am very adventurous in food. I am very adventurous outdoors. Likewise, I am the same in sex. No sushi jokes, please

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One thought that came to mind while typing the previous paragraph is our trip to vegas this summer. We hiked to the top of a mountain that we had to conquer from a failed attempt last year. We did defeat this peak, but there was one point on the climb that was "choose your own adventure". At this point we were on a trail that was looking worse and worse as we ascended, so knowing where we were from previous satellite imagery I studied before, I knew we needed to hop to an adjacent trail on top of a slope to the side. We moved that way, but the slope was sandy with loose rock and a very bad (read: deadly) drop-off 20 feet or so below us. We had no gear for this climb but once we committed, we had to keep moving. At one point halfway up I had to grab a rock with my right hand and assess how we should proceed. I was watching my wife closely behind me but she didn't have as good of an anchor and grabbed a small agave ball for support. Naturally I knew this wasn't going to hold and saw that she was about to lose her grip and her footing at the same time, so I reached back with my left, grabbed her loose arm and pulled her forward and in front of me. From there we scrambled quickly to safety. I apologized for putting her in danger like that, and we stayed safe the rest of the hike. Well, aside from my brush with heatstroke, but that's a different story.

As I said, I would never lead her down the wrong path intentionally, but that time I did, however to my credit it was unintentional. Sometimes I feel that is her fear; that I may have good intentions but make the wrong choice, where the odds end up against us in the end. I have a drive to take risks sometimes, though. I feel that if you don't risk, you don't gain. What I risk is sometimes high, but what I gain is a cherished life experience very few get to talk about. I have battled pit vipers face to face, I have been tracked as prey and survived at that crucial last moment, I have nearly died on the side of a mountain, I have fallen from 15 feet in the air, nearly broken my neck (broke my collarbone instead), had a 70mph wreck and many more. Yet from that, I wouldn't change a thing. What a trip it's been thus far. Why stop now? I am a scorpio and I live like one. Whether astrology is just a silly topic for gossip magazines or not, it is what I am.

This may shed some more light on my way of thinking and living. This is what attracts her to me, but she also gets this other part that can't sit still. Heh.

__________________
We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.
-Winston Churchill

Plan9

My cracker brother from another mother, Skafe, touched on this... but I'm good at kicking dead horses so I'll lace 'em up:

Well, at least you know where you stand. I like your preface; it's not pretentious. But don't pander to the stereotypes I'm about to touch on next.

Dramarama. Ah, yes, women talk too much and men don't listen. Women have the 256-color feelings, men are operating with 16-color. So we have stereotypes (useful or not). You have to read into what your partner doesn't say because they won't come out and say it. So we have head games (never useful). Neither of these things are helpful here. Both of these issues perpetuate a large number of relationship problems in a large number of relationships. In fact, you can probably put at least three fourths of all TFP relationship posts into those boxes. I've been amongst those ranks.

Regardless of the toolbox in your pants, we're all basically the same in relationships. We have desires and limits, our partner has desires and limits. Frank discussion is the only healthy way to square up. It's awkward being a mature adult. You have to be assertive, confront people and deal with rejection... whether it's smoothly asking for a first date or asking if your long time partner will let you oil her up and bust out the nipple clamps.

No, they are about sex. Sex is the only problem here. Issues with sex, communication about sex. Hell, they've been married for longer than I've been alive. They've probably got the communication thing down. His problem? He just wants to do her nasty and she's not having it. It's a common problem that has two typical resolutions: either he constantly beats his dick like it owes him money while watching his preferred fantasies on _Porn Site_ or she decides to put herself out there to make him happy and lets him do her armpit. Those are your Adult Options. Teamwork or help yourself.

Decades. That and I was wondering if you'd like to talk to my exwife for me about why our relationship failed. I think you've got the magic.

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I'm guilty of this. I've been with girls that totally hated it because they felt I was "treating them like a piece of meat." Girl I'm with now has no problem with it (and friggin' amazing boobs; double win). If I recall correctly, I started one of my big fail threads on this topic. Anybody remember the title?

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

John$

Well then if sex is the only problem here, then what are men doing wrong in your view?

Xazy

Might seem like a silly question but if she has image issues, which she shouldn't you say, but she does. How will talking about having a threesome help with her comfort level? It will not make her feel better for herself. Some people believe in monogamy pretty simple concept. I do, I may look at some people and say damn wow, if only, but marriage means only read the menu no tasting.

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Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known I was not a great fool, you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.

Vigilante

Yeah, no connection issues to speak of in our marriage. We profess that we are soul mates, and whether you believe in such a thing or not, we live that way too. We probably tell either other that we love the other 20 times a day or more. Not sure if you've picked up on this yet John$, but I don't really hold back what I'm thinking when I want to say something. I'm pretty good at listening too. To simplify some things, I told my wife years ago that I am a simple person. Do not assume implication, because what I say is direct. If I say a dress doesn't fit, it doesn't fit. I am not saying "you're fat". Likewise I asked that she remove the implication and just say what she means. We have very good communication because of this.

Xazy, to me marriage in an institution defined by the ones who profess it. Just as I do not let a priest define my view of God, I do not let a church, society or otherwise define my view of marriage. We define what our marriage is, not you, him, her or them. If you define marriage as strictly monogamous, then that's excellent. I know plenty of others that define marriage as love with a looser definition of who they have sex with. Some go even further and have open marriages. That, for me, is too far. My comfort zone, as it stands, is too far for my wife as well.

Her image issue is one I can not quite understand. I know, for me, I would feel simply awesome if she wanted to have a 3some with another girl. The afterglow of that would put me on cloud 9 for weeks. It just made sense to me that the same may be said for her, but she doesn't seem to agree. I know that she likes to feel attractive to others. She's said it herself. This discussion, for me, is just a logical extension of that thinking. The proof is in the pudding, as it were. Events prove what people say.

Ok I've got to get to work. Please discuss and I'll catch up later

__________________
We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.
-Winston Churchill

Plan9

Is it... banana pudding? Heh.

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Anyway, I think the Vig-meister has shown that his girl isn't interested in the kinky stuff either way... she doesn't want another girl, she doesn't want another guy. She doesn't really want wild sex for whatever reason. She sounds like she's content with what she has going on in bed with Vigilante.

Ah, to be content. A most enviable position.

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Dude, I could write for days on the topic of the castration of the heterosexual male.

As our Lord and Savior Baraka_Guru pointed out, society hasn't thoroughly trashed the "majority" element. Heterosexual males, historically the dominant creature, have taken a ton of hits over the last number of years in the equality wars. This isn't good or bad (I think of it as overwhelmingly positive), but the changes in society's thoughts and actions that serve to enable one previously disenfranchised group have taken away from the heterosexual male in ways that haven't even been measured. Why is this the case? Because nothing can be wrong with the heterosexual male... he's had it good forever. Nobody needs to watch the hulking mass when the minuscule dot needs attention. It can take care of itself, right? Well, maybe not.

I'll save the rest for another thread. You can hang some pithy Fight Club / Henry Rollins quotes off my post if you want.

Ladies, feel free to toss tomatoes.

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Indeed. We are what we do. Somebody write that down.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

John$

This is essentially the point that I was striving to make. When there is good communication, there are far less issues to complain about.

I do not wish to suggest any broad base assumptions because, as I see it, every circumstance is unique. Yet it seems to me that when people are able to talk with each other, there is far less stress.

Being kind does help as well. Shall we sat that there was a time when I was convinced that every problem in my life was 100% some other person's fault. Sometimes it takes a long time to find the best person to identify for blame. If you start to listen very carefully so that you can pick the person at fault, you may discover some things. Eventually I realized that people get entangled with each other in various ways. I realized that it is seldom only one person who has been disruptive.

Now if you have a partner, then finding a person is easy. The task then becomes identifying how to resolve the issues. One again, listening can be used for that purpose. That is unless you expect your partner to discover how they have been wrong about so many things entirely on their own without and insights from you. I am talking about helpful insights - not a list of complaints.

I have found that once a conversation can begin, issues are able to be resolved.

I was hoping that my little bit of experience, with this sex issue?, could help the group.

John

EventHorizon

Vig, this might be a hard pill to swallow but maybe this is a battle where you need to accept losing. until they invent mega-horny pills for women, what else haven't you tried?

i imagine that the sexual appetite you have, which seems to be comparable to a queen ant, hasn't been satisfied, but that just might be the way it has to be throughout your relationship. we've pretty much covered most of the options in detail from communication to counseling.

would you be willing to accept that you may never play out these fantasies with your wife?

__________________
Does Marcellus Wallace have the appearance of a female canine? Then for what reason did you attempt to copulate with him as if he were a female canine?

Quote:

Originally Posted by canuckguy Pretty simple really, do your own thing as long as it does not fuck with anyone's enjoyment of life.

Vigilante

That is what I am working on, actually. The subconscious mind does not always obey the conscious, and as a result old habits come back after some time. I'm trying to determine if this topic is something that I am, or if this is something I can not be, if I so choose. Obviously, this is complicated by too many variables to count. I just need some quiet time, to organize my thoughts and hash things out. This week has been too crazy to even consider that, though.

__________________
We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.
-Winston Churchill