shesus

I have made it a rule not to get involved in friend's relationships anymore. Generally, if you don't say what the person wants to hear, the words said are lost. But, this situation is just troubling.

My friend E has a boyfriend that is just all-around creepy. He checks out other women constantly and is blatant about it going as far as making lewd comments. He puffs out his chest like he's proving his manhood and protecting his property, E, whenever other men are close by. He has gone as far as encouraging her to gain weight to discourage other men from looking at her. She was a gorgeous woman and is still attractive, but has let herself go because of this creep. Not only has she put on weight, but she doesn't do her hair or make-up anymore and has traded in her trendy clothes for frumpy sweats.

He has made comments to me about how good I look and asking if I ever stripped because he thinks I'd be good at it. He even talked about one of his buddies having a pole for women to practice on. The whole time E is standing there feeling like shit. I told him that he was being disrespectful.

They came over once when we had a get together and she had to ask his permission to do anything (i.e. drink, go in the other room with me, play a game, etc). He stared down all the other men, checked out the other women, and refused to speak unless it was a short, lewd comment. It was quite uncomfortable, but I was glad that I wasn't alone in my opinion of this guy.

Have you experienced guys like this? Have you been in or experienced second-hand a relationship like this? What are you thoughts?

__________________
Whatever did happen to your soul?
I heard you sold it

Choose Heaven for the weather and Hell for the company

Baraka_Guru

I had a relationship with a girl who was like this in some ways. It was an emotionally abusive one.

My thoughts?

She needs to get out. It's abuse.

I wouldn't be surprised if either a) you have left out a bunch of other details (no matter how small) or b) she hasn't told you about a bunch of other things (no matter how small).

These kinds of relationships corner people away from friends and family and even oneself until the abuser gets his or her way: complete emotional dominion.

They can do this bit by bit over time.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Bill O'Rights

Your thoughts, old friend, mirror my own. Unfortunately, she is not going to get out. She is already under his domination.

You are absolutely correct. These guys are beyond scary.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

creepysusie

I knew the exact same guy.
Dated my friend and after a couple of months they moved in together despite everyone's wishes; she was not allowed to call home because they hated him. Every time when me or another friend called, she was accused of having a lesbian affair with one of us and she was not allowed to associate with us. She had to ask for permission to hang out with us. She had to ask for permission if she was to take a walk around when he was at work.
Eventually, she was beaten and thrown around like a rag doll. She got pregnant and he held a tighter grip on her.
After a mysterious miscarriage, she left him but went back and got pregnant again.
We have tried many times to tell her to leave him after she was hit the first time, but by then, it was too late and she was already emotionally manipulated by a guy she thought she loved.
At least this ending fares much better than most. She did leave him and she is now raising her beautiful daughter on her own with her parents (with many aunties helping)
I had only wished that I had been more vocal with "I don't like him; he is creepy" before I knew she was being hit. It is going to be a tough and arduous process for you (as a friend) to convince her out of it but don't give up.
Tell her to leave the guy. Be adamant and don't waiver on your opinion. Coming from one friend who had an abused friend to another, it is going to be real tough.

Taja

To hear of this type of relationship, just breaks my heart. Often times the man is so wrapped up in his career and his life, he controls her in such a way that she feels that she can never do any better than him. So she stays. It’s very sad. And most of the time, she is an incredible woman with so much potential, but she has no idea because he continues to lead her down a self-doubting road.

__________________
I fear neither death nor pain.
What do you fear milady?
A cage.

genuinegirly

This is not a healthy relationship for your friend.

yes. It's a step beyond the usual creepy.

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

ngdawg

I don't know how good a friend she is, but she needs to be asked Why is she with him?
Of course, her answer would be, "I love him". Then she should be asked "Why? What's lovable about him?"
And she will go home to him, but the questions will at least be in the back of her head and one day come back to her-hopefully before it's too late. Because, even if he hasn't hit her yet, he will.

What saddens me is that, in these times with so much information out there, so many open discussions, so many opportunities, women still put up with this shit.

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

Stare At The Sun

I would just like to say that "creep" is by far the most overused word of the last year.

Shaindra

Controlling men almost always graduate to physical abuse. If he isn't hitting her, he's doing something else to punish her when she steps out of line. For some guys it's degrading comments. For others, it's withdrawing emotionally and withholding affection and/or sex. Some do it with money, others with their fists. Doesn't matter what he's hitting her with, it's still abuse.

But it isn't quite as clear to the person involved. Her boundaries have been so completely erased by this guy, she'd have trouble recognizing acceptable limits now. Her focus is on him, where he likes it. It needs to be, because that's how he keeps her from thinking about how she feels about any of this. She's walking on eggshells and concentrating on not setting him off, she's forgotten that she has needs to.

All you can do is encourage her to remember how *she* feels. "How does it feel when he does that? Do you think that's good for you?" And warn her about when she leaves. Guys like that can turn dangerous when they lose their control over someone.

__________________
"Never regret something that once made you smile."

Baraka_Guru

In many cases, it doesn't even come to that. That is to say, it doesn't even need to.

Emotional abuse can have controlling effects that are more profound than what physical abuse could ever accomplish. It programs you. It detaches you from yourself to the extent that you lose your sense of self. Coming out of a long-term emotionally abusive relationship myself, I can tell you the effects are long lasting. The guilt I felt when doing anything for myself remained quite heavy for years after the relationship ended. Speaking with the opposite sex was the worst trigger.

Even today, I still feel pangs of guilt, and it's been about 9 years since the end of the abuse. I'm still somewhat distanced from my family and some of my friends. I've lost out on far too many potentially rewarding friendships. The rifts that emotional abuse creates can take a really long time to mend, and some of them will last forever.

I'm still working on the deep rift that was torn between me and my very self.

It seems like it was just yesterday when I didn't even think about asking myself, "Who am I?" It wasn't even a consideration. When the relationship crapped out on itself, I was all but completely estranged from myself.

It's hard to explain. All I can say is you can wait out the healing of welts and bruises, but the damage done to your emotional health goes beyond what some could ever comprehend.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Zenturian

I knew this girl in high school that went out with a guy like this. She was the cutest, most fun girl. Everyone, myself included had a crush on her. Well, she was not permitted to talk to anyone without permission. At parties she had to sit alone in a room, etc...
I have to say, that girl lost her smile, and while I lost touch with her, I still wonder if they are together still.

Borla

As a friend I think this is something you sit her down and talk to her about, while assuring her that you care about her and think she is a worthwhile person. I think most people in such a relationship have self-esteem issues at the root of their permitting themselves to be treated like that.



What a miserable person he must be inside to act like that.

__________________
Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde!!!!

shesus

Thanks for the feedback on this. I have asked her why she is with him. Her response is usually along the lines of 'I don't want to go through a break-up'. Makes me think that she wants out, but is scared of the change. I offer my support, but until she's ready to do it, that's about all I can do. It's very frustrating. And the distance that the relationship is causing with her friendships is scary because she's slowly becoming isolated. I'm waiting for him to tell her to quit her job because I think that will be the next request.

__________________
Whatever did happen to your soul?
I heard you sold it

Choose Heaven for the weather and Hell for the company

Baraka_Guru

This is what I thought for 7 years. In hindsight, I should have broken up with her at the first warning signs, which were noticeable within weeks. It got progressively worse.

Do your friend a favour and keep getting her to talk about it. Try to break through the "her" that he has programmed and the "her" that she needs to get out of this mess.

Seriously...if it's really that bad, there are organizations that would tell her to leave *immediately* and go to a women's shelter if necessary.

Also realize you might not know the worst of it.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

toxic515

agreed. Be frank and upfront about your real concerns. Keep it factual, not emotional, and continue to discuss. I tend to be a rather non-violent person, but that does not mean non-confrontational. Some guy at a party who puffs up and attempts a stare-down if someone happens to speak to his mate is likely to get called on the carpet very quickly in my circle of friends, both men and women.

__________________
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies
like a banana.

MrLatte

You should try to help get her out of that relationship. Not to impose your will or even as a caring friend, but just to see a good person not be abused by an overly possessive, and borderline dangerous male. Emotional abuse is truly the worst, it leaves lasting scars and bad memories, as well as keeps good hearted people from ever being confident to find love again.

I hope your friend gets away from the man, and that she finds someone, male or female, that treats her with respect the way it should be.

Borla

I had a female friend in a similiar situation. Her reasons for not being happy were slightly different, but she ended up being with someone for 3 years AFTER she decided she couldn't stand him because she didn't want to cause conflict. Now, almost 2 years later, she has been in a new, happy relationship for about a year and is horrified at how long it took her to get out of the last one.

Hopefully your friend doesn't make the same mistake.

__________________
Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde!!!!

Cynthetiq

It's Nonya. None Ya business. You don't have to wake up next to him and you aren't her.

I'm going to have a dissenting opinion because quite frankly it isn't any of your business.
I don't like when people butt into my life telling me how to live it in any fashion. I don't but into someone's fiscal irresponsibility because I think they will live a better life under the lifestyle I've chosen.

I don't believe that any of us like when someone butts into our lives because they feel that some thing is better or should be done differently especially when no laws are being broken.

Unsolicited advice is useless on it's face. Many of life's lessons must be learned not just intellectually but also emotionally. It takes intent to convert the thought of change and the intention of change is driven by our pain and pleasure associations. So it maybe painful for her to change what she think is a bad situation, but it is more painful to think of or consider to really make the change.

So long as no skin or blood vessels are broken, no laws have been broken, it's up to her to make the choice.

You've said your piece, now it's up to you to either accept the friendship as it is, or move on.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Baraka_Guru

This would be the case if a) she wasn't a friend of hers, and b) there are no indicators of abuse.

If the situation is contrary, then it is her business. It's her business to give her friend support and to offer understanding of the situation, and to help her where help is needed.

Sorry, I don't think "It's none of your bee's wax" is appropriate here. Not from the behaviours and situations outlined above. Not if this is your friend.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

shesus

I don't understand what you are trying to get at with your post when I made it clear that it really wasn't my business. However, this girl was gorgeous, happy, and easy-going and now she is not. I happen to care about my friends. Some people don't, I suppose.
I'm not sure where I posted I said anything unless he was directly addressing me. When she asks, I answer. As I said before, I have made it a rule *not* to get involved. However, when I am included in a conversation or it occurs in my home, I am involved.

You seem very passionate about this and bring a different perspective than the others so far. I'm curious to see why you feel so strongly about not getting involved with people in your life that you care about who may be in an unhealthy situation.

__________________
Whatever did happen to your soul?
I heard you sold it

Choose Heaven for the weather and Hell for the company

Taja

Gee, I thought the point to this post was quite clear. She feels troubled to see someone that she cares about, changing in a negative way, right before her eyes. And she would like to know if anyone else has been in a similar situation.

Cyn, I think your response was a little harsh. If you have a friend that you care deeply for, and that friend is falling down the path to drug or alcohol abuse... 1) would you at least try to help in some way? 2) would you be troubled by watching them change in a negative way?

__________________
I fear neither death nor pain.
What do you fear milady?
A cage.

Cynthetiq

BG, there is no law against being an asshole or being a misogynistic bastard. If there are no physical signs of abuse, there are no laws being broken. If there were one single blood vessel broken, I'd be in agreement with everyone else. Until that moment happens, it is unfortunate, but it is not anyone else's business until she asks for help.

I'm reiterating that statement because no one else has, in fact, people have their opinions colored by some other emotionally charged response from their own experiences that go well beyond what you've stated.

It is troubling, it is troubling to you. This post request is about your ego not about hers. You are troubled, you're asking for confirmation/permission to step over your normal rules of not getting involved.

You don't have any obligation to inviting him back into your house. I have had in the past, excluded friends significant others because I don't like them for whatever reasons I have.

You don't have any obligation to attending any events where he is present. If she continues to decline attending because he is not included, it is perfectly fine for you to explain your reasons.

There's nothing about having to accept someone's SO as your friend just because you're friends. It makes it easier, but it isn't a requirement of friendship.

If the individual changes because they "found god" would you have the same impetus to try to dissuade them from the choice they have made? Same situations, dressed trendy, partied all the time, was fun, wore make up, SO/husband misogynistic and controlling, would you have the same desires?

We aren't talking about drug abuse, we're talking about someone being an asshole and a misogynist. Again, I'll posit that the negative way may be positive to her. shesus doesn't know that and never stated that in the OP. She has not mentioned to shesus that she wants help, needs help, or doesn't like the situation she is in.

She did not in her OP mention that she's not allowed to wear make up because E's SO said so. She did not mention in the OP that E's SO said she cannot wear trendy clothes on the request of the asshole. I'm reading what she wrote literally and specifically and not jumping ahead to other people whom I know to have been in emotionally abusive relationships.

To answer your other question having had someone but into my life for such a reason, I do take umbrage from time to time on it usually when I had a rough week and would like to sit and have a beer just like any other person. Otherwise, it was a problem that was affecting my wife whom asked for assistance from friends, for that I'm grateful that I had caring friends who assisted my wife when she asked for help.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

spectre

Last I checked, emotional abuse is still considered to be abuse.

And I think it moved into being shesus' business as soon as he started making lewd comments towards her.

__________________
"Fuck these chains
No goddamn slave
I will be different" ~ Machine Head

toxic515

** Not that I disagree with you entirely, but I do in part. In this case, there are many things that are currently legal, but still unethical, and some are still just wrong. Injustice is also legal, but it should be avoided and resisted wherever possible. *********

Agreed. Entirely. But this also does not require divorce from opinions, concern, or assistance.

I might very well try to dissuade them. Especially if I believed, yes in my arrogance, that they did not understand or know the details of what they are getting into. If one of my friends were going to join Jim Jones, it may have THEM convinced that they have found God, but I'm sure I'd be rather skeptical.

again agreed.

__________________
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies
like a banana.

Baraka_Guru

I admit that I don't have the full picture. But from what descriptions we have in the OP, there is the likelihood that there are more power games going on in the relationship. If he does these things in public, what does he do behind closed doors?

There is no clear law for punishing emotional abuse, but that's part of the problem. This abuse is an elaborate power game, and shesus is concerned for her friend, and I say rightly so.

This guy isn't just being a jerk; he's manipulating her right in front of others. We have no idea what else he's leveraging on her in private. If this were my friend--knowing what I know--I'd be greatly concerned.

I'm sorry, but serious emotional abuse is more than simply "unfortunate." Why does it take a light bruise to completely change your mind on that? Do you understand what emotional abuse entails?

I think you're greatly underestimating the effects of emotional abuse. Depending on the circumstances, emotional abuse can be as bad as or worse than physical abuse. And one can (and does) certainly lead to the other.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Taja

Shesus, my heart goes out to you. I can imagine that it's very difficult for you to see a friend that you care about being subjected to emotional abuse. Hang in there, knowing that you have a caring heart and you're a good friend. Life can take some interesting turns sometimes, and maybe things will work out for E soon. I'll cross my fingers for that.

__________________
I fear neither death nor pain.
What do you fear milady?
A cage.

shesus

I'm not quite sure where the hostility is coming from, but I am going to clear up a few of your assumptions.

Yes, it is troubling to me. No, I am not posting this because of my ego. First of all, I made it perfectly clear that I do not interfere in other people's relationships. I was curious to hear other stories because maybe some people do feel comfort in having a controlling person around. Second, I do not come to this board to ask permission to do things. I am a grown woman and do what I please. I do come to gather insight on situations and to engage in discussion with people.

I am well aware of this. Thanks.

I'm not sure what desires you are addressing. If a person I care about is unhappy and changes in a negative manner, I would be troubled. As to desires, I don't know what you are getting at?


Actually she has, which is when I asked her why she is staying. That's when I said earlier that her answers for staying revolve around 'She doesn't want to go through a break-up'. She also has made comments that she is not happy with how she has been the past few months with her appearance, but is not sure how to get it back because she looks 'like shit'.

It seems as if this may have been the only part of my post you read literally. As far as I know, he hasn't told her that she can't be the way she was. However, emotional abuse can cause a person to have low self-esteem and a symptom of that is not caring about what you look like. Emotional abuse is not a far-fetched conclusion to draw.

__________________
Whatever did happen to your soul?
I heard you sold it

Choose Heaven for the weather and Hell for the company

World's King

So I had a lot of really mean things to say to a few people in this thread... but I pushed the back button.


All I'm gonna say is... Watch your mouth and re-read your posts. You're not the end all be all of knowledge around here. I'm sorry that you feel that everything you say is right and the only truth.

__________________
heavy is the head that wears the crown

Cynthetiq

toxic515, I'm not referring to the distinct difference of a cult. I was thinking mainstream evangelical, born again christian, Judaism, heck, even Muslim conversion.

No, I'm not underestimating it BG. What he does behind closed doors is no ones business until it's assault or battery of some sort. He can be a bigger dick in private than he is in public, there's no law against that he is breaking.

I'm quite versed in emotional abuse. There are no laws against having an emotionally abusive spouse or boss. I say it is unfortunate because it is. It requires the offended abused to find enough self esteem to seek solace elsewhere by changing their situation. There is no respite or relief from any laws in the US or any other country that I know of. There's no law against having a boss like the one in Devil Wears Prada, just like there are no laws about Boyfriend Is A Misogynistic Prick. The law is clear when it comes to married couples.

The closest laws crafted for this is bullying and well, they aren't protecting adults, they are protecting children. The next closest art torts about battered women syndrome, which applies to married women.

There are no laws crafted towards anti-bullying for simple consenting adults.

The tort law is very clear about this. Battery is a distinct tort. Forcing subservience to ask for permission to do something has no precedent tort whatsoever. There are no laws about manipulating people in front of others.

Stating that one can lead to the other, is just about the same as equating that arguing people lead to people assaulting each other. It can happen, it is within the realm of possibility but there isn't a law about raising your voice in heated disagreement with someone. There is a specific tort about assault and battery.

shesus, there's nothing hostile about what I'm writing. If you're reading that into it, you're bringing it, I'm not providing it. Your OP I read it quite literally, she did not say to you, "I don't like the relationship, I'd to get out of it." which is what I was looking for when I read and wrote my opinion. "Doesn't want to go through the break up" isn't the same as saying, "I'm fearful of my life or well being if I stay with him." If she said such a thing, I'd be with everyone saying she's got to leave now, call local shelters etc.

You've stated what your desire is, you would meddle in someone else's business that you felt was "negative" in your opinion.

My opinion in this isn't much different than everyone else's to a point. Again, I gave a dissenting opinion because everyone else's was the same, I'm providing a different point of view because you asked for different thoughts. Obviously, everyone in this thread wants it to be a non-dissenting opinion so this will be my last post here.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

spectre

I'm confused by this, you posted to be the lone dissenting view in the thread and you're not going to post any more because you're the lone dissenting view in the thread?

__________________
"Fuck these chains
No goddamn slave
I will be different" ~ Machine Head

FuglyStick

In Cyn's defense, you can't convince someone that they are in an unhealthy relationship. You just can't. They have to come to the conclusion that they need to get out of the relationship, and they have to come to that conclusion on their own. People in an unhealthy relationship are impossible to reason with; it is the suspension of their reason which led them into an unhealthy relationship in the first place. And too much interest in their relationship could lead to an undesired escalation in the abusive behavior.

That's not to say they should be abandoned to their abuser however. The victim of an abusive relationship will, eventually, get to the point where enough is enough, and they will reach out to friends and family for help extracting them from the relationship. After the damage their confidence and self-esteem has been subjected to, they will need the support to re-establish their identity and will.

I suppose the best thing a friend can do is make sure they are available, but not put themselves in the middle.

__________________
AZIZ! LIGHT!

Cynthetiq

yep. apparently enough to make it so that WK can't make a hookers and drug joke and got all serious. That's enough to scare anyone straight outta compton!

I've said all that needed to be said. I don't have more to add or make clear.

When her friend is ready, she will ask for help. Until that time comes, there is nothing to do but wait. Either he shifts from emotional abuse to physical abuse, and there are laws that cover that, or she decides for herself she's had enough and asks for help. It's that simple, anything before that is in my opinion butting into someone's life.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

World's King

You think that's funny?

__________________
heavy is the head that wears the crown

JumpinJesus

I just read the OP again to see if I could gather what's going on here.

Shesus never mentioned that this was emotional abuse. She never mentioned that she wanted to save her friend from the relationship. She never mentioned wanting to debate the legality of what the boyfriend was doing. She never mentioned that her friend's life was in danger. She simply mentioned that her friend has changed since dating this guy, is less outgoing than she was before and less interested in her personal hygiene than she once was. She then mentioned a few of her interchanges with him and his behavior when he was at our place one night.

After reading some of the responses in here, I'm wondering if some of you are responding to some other thread somewhere else.

For the record, I don't know her friend that well. I've only met her a few times, but I did notice a definite douche-baggery on the part of the boyfriend when he was here to the point where we were about to ask him to leave until he decided on his own that it was time to go.

__________________
"I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am" - Cormac McCarthy, All The Pretty Horses

Xerxys

Hmmm, I understand what Cynthetiq is saying but I also disagree with you.

You see, it's about guidance. Sure it's unsolicited. But there's a fine line between us being preachy and telling the person that she'll wind up dead than simply telling her that she's very obviously not happy.

Now cynth, I don't think you quite get that a situation such as this is especially designed to usurp self esteem from the abused party. The conditioning is intense an far reaching. As the emotions are broken down the abuser essentially loses apathy for the other party and that's when it deteriorates to physical abuse.

I see where you used the context 'realm of possibility'. It's actually more likely than not. Sure King, the rest of us may have been emotionally charged. But please understand that this hits home and is quite painful even for an observer.

I wouldn't mind my own business ... this friend of yours needs emotional help which is why we make friends. It's what friends are for. I don't see an ulterior motive to be honest. Work is for financial stability, exercise for health, friends are for a cling to societal sanity.

spindles

This reminds me a little of the breakdown of my first marriage. While nothing quite as bad as the OP, I was quite shattered after it happened. Some of my friends were there to help me pick up the pieces and a few people actually said (at that time) that they never really liked my first wife. Nobody said anything prior to the breakup, but there is nothing better than having friends there to help you pick up the pieces.

I suspect if any of my friends had said "don't marry her - she's no good for you" I would've told them to butt out and that is the position you are in. Your friend has to realise she wants/needs help and it is your call if you want to tell her that her boyfriend is a douchebag. Just remember if you do say something to her, by prepared for her to reject your take on things.

Anyway, I think I'm siding with Cynthetiq on this one. You can't help her until she is ready to be helped, and you may harm your relationship with her if you step in too early...

__________________
who hid my keyboard's PANIC button?

Baraka_Guru

Actually, it isn't quite that simple. She might not ever ask for help, and the worse the abuse gets, the harder it is to even consider asking for it. Victims of emotional abuse are programed to feel guilty for doing anything for themselves; for doing something--anything--against their abuser; especially something that will jeopardize the relationship. She "doesn't want to go through a break-up." This despite knowing what's going on in public and in appearances. How long would you wait that out?

I refuse to believe this is merely a question of the law. That isn't any way to regard a friend in need.

She can't even leave the fucking room without asking him. That could be just the tip of the iceberg.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

shesus

Could you point out where I said or implied that my desire is to meddle? Because that is not my desire at all. Concern or being troubled is not the same as "I want to change the situation or save the person". Seems like you are bringing a lot to the table that was not mentioned. It was a pretty straight forward post. I was not asking "What should I do?" I asked, "Have you experienced this?"

You are bringing to the table that people are attacking you for a differing opinion. In fact, I asked for you to elaborate and you came back with legal information. I don't see the connection because I never mentioned legalities of the situation or lack of.

Fuglystick, I agree that you can't convince someone to break off a relationship that they are in. This is why I opened my OP with the fact that I don't meddle in other people's affairs. However, when you see someone you care about being treated poorly, if you really care, you are going to feel troubled and be there to offer support when needed.

__________________
Whatever did happen to your soul?
I heard you sold it

Choose Heaven for the weather and Hell for the company

Baraka_Guru

This really is the core of the matter, from where you stand, shesus.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

MSD

You can't convince her that she needs to get out, but you have to let her know that you're there when she wants to leave. If she seems to be looking for help or a reason to get out, encourage her. Anything else will fall on deaf ears.