katyg

Hi guys,
I hope I don't sound like a total walkover in this post, but hey, let's try to be honest...

I met this wonderful man 2 years ago, shy, intelligent, hansome, very funny, we met through friends and started seeing one another. I didn't know at the time but I was the 2nd person he'd ever slept with at 24, and the only girl he'd ever seriously dated. After a few months we fell in love, then one night I said 'I love you' in bed and he said he wasn't sure (after previously saying it). What has followed on from that day is hard to describe, we've broken up many times, a few times I left him because he was smoking lots of pot and being strange and anti-social, sometimes aggressive, and I just couldn't satdn seeing him waste away like that, he also left me a few times saying I was insecure or that he wanted to play the field, but he'd always come back not having been with anyone else saying I was the one.

The last time he left was april, he quit weed and came back from a 2 week holiday a very different person, confused, lost, moody and said some mean things. A few days after he got back he left me (we live together) saying that he just didn't think I was pretty and I had quite an ugly face, he didn't fancy me and maybe never had.

We're back together.

It happened a few weeks after he left, he came back crying saying he'd made a terrible mistake, that he was fully committed, that we'd sprend our lives together.

The problem is, after all he has said, and done, no matter how much he tells me I am not ugly, that he loves me etc etc. I can't get it out of my head, he expects me to move on, he's frustrated that I can't (though he did cry when I explained last night how I now feel about my appearance and how I always think he'll leave me for a hotter girl).

I look in the mirror and all I hear is 'You have an ugly face, don't kid yourself' which is along the lines of what he said when he left last time.

I am pretty, I am fun and bright and caring and I hope that this post doesn't sound like I am some dumb downtrodden person hopelessly falling for the wrong guy because I wouldn't be with him if I didn't have hope. It's just the past few days it's gotten worse, I feel empty, belittled, ugly, useless and I look at prettier girls and I feel sad and wonder if I can get over it? Or maybe he wouldn't have left me all those times if I were prettier? Or if he's just had cold feet and he had a right to when I've dated before for 6years and find it easy to commit?

I know people argue and say terrible things, but I worry because no matter what I would never say something like that to him. I also worry that maybe I can't forget it because I am a bit insecure. I would appreciate any thoughts from you guys...have you ever said something that bad you regret? Do you find things like that easy to get over? etc etc

I am sorry this post is so soppy and not hot and full of exciting sexiness! :-)
katy

Sultana

There are things said that are later regretted, and then there is abuse. I'd venture to say that all that you've been through recently is emotional and verbal abuse.

I'd also guess that he was telling you you're ugly just to hurt you. I wouldn't focus on the words he said to hurt you, but instead evaluate the intention. He wanted to hurt you. He wanted you to cry. He wanted to feel more powerful than you. And this seems to have turned into a habit, yes? A persistent pattern of behavior.

That's what I don't like.

My advice is don't invest more time in this relationship that is only spiraling downwards. You don't seem to be reaping any benefit from this any more. Get away from him, live your life, work on your insecurities (by the way, I don't think you sound like a door mat at all!), and let him work on himself. By himself.

__________________
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath.
At night, the ice weasels come." -

Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.

ngdawg

When someone quits weed, they become nasty, short tempered, sullen and sarcastic. They pick fights and withdraw from people they would otherwise care about. But....from my experience, those problems are realized and apologized for. If he has not expressed remorse yet for how he behaved while kicking his habit, he needs to do so. Ask him if he has any. Tell him what happened during that time weighs on you and is preventing you from giving the best of yourself.
Then ask yourself what is this relationship built on and what is it doing to your own self-worth and power. Sultana is dead-on-you have to work on yourself and he has to work on himself; it's not your job to improve his life, only your own.

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

Psycho Dad

That looks like a red flag to me. From what you have described, the things that are broke and need fixing are his. If he didn't fix them the first time or three that you two have parted ways, he isn't going to get it done in my opinion.

And I don't know if it pertains or not, but like I keep telling my sister-in-law... You aren't going to find a better guy while you are with this one.

__________________
Don't always trust the opinions of experts.

GingerRoot

This sounds to me like he is very a very insecure person. I don't want to sound as if I know what is going here - because I don't - however my first impression was that he is using you to boost his own self esteem. I would guess that he will continue to break up with you, failing to find what he is looking for and crawling back desperatly. He will likely not learn this way, nor will he find what he is looking for if you continue to keep taking him back. My suggestion if this is the case would be to end the relationship for both your sakes. You do not seem very happy as simple as it sounds its pretty profound. Read over your post and imagine this is someone elses story? You may find the answer you are looking for.

Good Luck and Much Love,
You are NOT pathetic in my eyes.

- GingerRoot

hagatha

Abuse is abuse. Emotional abusive is most insidious because you feel the ground shifting beneath you and think its your own issues. When you're with someone you should not be second guessing why they are with you, nor should you feel inadequate. He has played with your self-esteem and will continue to do so as long as you are with him.

Run away, run away now. Don't look back.

__________________
Thats the last time I trust the strangest people I ever met....H. Simpson

noodlebee

If you have known him for 2 years now, I think you should already have some good idea of his temper and personality. You have seen it change in different circumstances, and from what you said, it seems to me like rather extreme circumstances. Let's pretend that his personality is unchangeable. If it is unchangeable and his moodiness occurs sometimes, can you still tolerate him as a long term boyfriend or maybe even husband? How much can you trust him when he says he regrets doing something bad to you and tells you part of it was because of the circumstances?

I don't know if telling my story will help. If you think it doesn't, you can stop reading this paragraph and skip to the next. I have been with my boyfriend for about 2.5 years now. There were a few times when we had very big arguments and we wanted to break up. He said things that were hurtful and made some threats. He never did act upon those threats but I was still scared during that time. Looking back, I now know that he is not the sort of person who will ever act upon threats or truly mean the words he said. He never hits me and I know from his character that he never hits even his male peers. He is moody when there is stress and it makes him have less control of what he says and what emotions he has. So when he is stressed because of work or other things, I can now be wary and not take every word for truth until he calms down. It is only a small part of his personality. It doesn't occur frequently to the point where I am always scared and want to leave him.

Your personality may say that you can never tell your significant other horrible things. But everyone has a different personality. Maybe his personality is more impulsive and spontaneous so it makes him say bad things and then regret. This is why I think it is important to understand what his personality is like and what can make him moody so you can be aware of when it is a bad time to talk about serious things or anything that triggers bad temper. It is really a compromise for you to make. I don't know what he will say if he makes a thread, so I cannot offer him advice for his own compromise.

As for how you feel about your physical appearance, I have not seen your face, but it is usually safe to assume most females are prettier than me. You should be prettier than me. I know this sounds like I am being bad to myself, but it is a fact. My entire family has small bodies, small butts, small breasts. I am the same and most people say I look more like "cute" than "beautiful". I am satisfied to be cute. It is true that there are many people more beautiful than you, but don't you think that there is an even greater number of people uglier than you? You were pretty enough to attract that man 2 years ago when he did not know too much about you except what you look like. I think it is safe to say that it was his first impression that you were beautiful which led you two to become so close afterwards. It sounds superficial but from what other people tell me and what I think, you cannot fall in love with someone if you think they are ugly. What things are said about appearance afterwards in the relationship are pale in comparison.

TotalMILF

Why are you with someone that makes you feel like shit? From what you have said he is very immature and inconsiderate. Why do you tolerate that? If you've given him multiple chances to change and he hasn't, then why do you think he ever will?

Sorry if that sounded harsh. I just think you deserve much better than someone who is obviously emotionally unstable, and who will degrade you and lead you in circles for as long as you let him.

little_tippler

I have been in a similar position and I just think its not right. No-one should have to subject themselves to that kind of emotional abuse. Theres just things you don't say to another person if you love them. I don't care if he's more impulsive or if in the heat of the moment he says things just to hurt you. That is not love. It's selfish and cruel.

Even if he is better now and truly committed, I think the fact that you've posted here says "I love him, but I'm not sure I can forgive him". If you can't forgive it, you need to move on, otherwise you will only resent him, continue to doubt yourself and just dig yourself into a deeper hole.

I also believe that someone who loves you will never make fun of you or belittle you in such a cruel way. Things like that mark people for life. A loving relationship is built on mutual support and understanding. Otherwise it just becomes a weight that drags you down and doesn't allow you to believe in your own potential fully.

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

katyg

I am slightly overwhelmed by the answers you have all given me. I am quite moved by how understanding and open they are. Thank you.

Last night after work and posting, I spoke to him about things. I explained how I couldn't move on, how he keeps acting impatient about me putting what he said down to anger/confusion etc etc and how much pressure that puts me under. At first he was depressed 'I can't put this right can I?'. 'I don't know' I said. There was a lot of silence, we both considered our thoughts well before speaking, nobody raised their voice and after a little while he seemed to stop being weighed down and immature about it and took responsibility.

'I worry that you don't love me and that this has been a huge waste of my time, I should be the love of your life...' for the first time he really reassured me : 'You are the love of my life, I want to go away with you, buy a house with you, grow old with you, I am not going to leave you'.

We spoke at length about how much he finds it hard to express nice feelings - the british northern stiff upper lip thing where boys don't cry, don't say 'I love you' very often. He says he thinks positive things about me all the time, but it's hard to express them and say 'That thing you did was so sweet' etc etc and that I should never doubt that he thinks those things and that he will work to express them more and not say negative things and yeild more. He said that when we argue 99% of the time, I am in the right and he is being stubborn, he needs to yeild more to keep me, be more patient.

I know some people will groan at this story. And perhaps I agree on some level that this has been an abusive relationship, I feel I have been mistreated and Iam justified in my feelings now and it's his turn to work hard to out things right.

I feel stronger now, reassured by him and safe that last time, was the last time. I am sure there will be doubtful times in the future but I feel strong enough to work at this. He was raised in a family where he was beaten and abused a lot and although that is not an excuse for his behaviours sometimes, maybe it does explain his lack of care with his words and his difficulty with emotion.

I do think the example set by your family ingrains in you certain ways of being. His mother beat him severely and his dad wasn't around, she basically bullied him too, with the help of his sister. Myself I come from a fairly settled background in my family though, I was cheated on by my first boyfriend at 16 by my best friend, so sometimes I am insecure about my looks and being abandoned. I could walk away and probably find somebody else and wouldn't have to take this baggage but I am going to stick it out. Life's too short for regrets and if I left now - just when it seems to be turning around I think I'd regret it.

I will post again and let you guys know how things go. Thanks again for everything x

Bear Cub

Just my $.02, but it sounds like he's going through at 24 the things he should have been going through at 18-21.

The real question is why have you elected to stay with him this entire time? Is it because you genuinely care for him, or is it out of pity for his background/situation?

Sultana

Yes, this is absolutely a decision that you have to do what it takes to feel comfortable with. And now that you recognize what you are going through, what he is putting you through, and you are taking action to get what you want--that's wonderful! That's strength!

Everyone has faults and problems--as long as people are willing to put in significant effort to work with it, *that's* the key to love, I think. To life in general, maybe.

I'd recommend:
1) Journaling,
2) Setting a date on the calaendar to evaluate progress, and
3) Please do seriously consider couple's counseling. You may think it's not needed at this stage, but please believe me when I tell you, often by the time you think it's time, a terrible lot of damage has been done. Don't wait, ok?

Good Luck to you and yours!

__________________
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath.
At night, the ice weasels come." -

Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.

katyg

It's definitely not pity. I personally think the past is no excuse for the present...you can't keep continuing a mistake through generations, people have to change. I am with him because I love him.

This week I get paid and we are going to book a holiday together for the first time. I will keep a journal and see how things go. I think if in 6 months time if he repeats any of the patterns of behaviour then I will sit down with him and call it a day for my own sake but I am hopeful that he's finally grown up. Perhaps now it is up to me just to either learn to accept that or move on...

x

hagatha

Okay, final thoughts from me, then its all in your hands. Guess what, this will be an endless cycle of making you feel like shit then coming back and saying, "oh
I'm so sorry, I love you and want to grow old with you , yadda, yadda, yadda....then you say "well its just hard for him to express himself", then its fine, then he says something mean....and it all starts again. And each time you feel worse about yourself. And each time he gets worse because you keep coming back!

katyg---they don't call it the cycle of abuse for nothing!!!

But you'll do what you gotta do.

__________________
Thats the last time I trust the strangest people I ever met....H. Simpson

noodlebee

I disagree with hagatha, at least partially. You have told us that your boyfriend is now more aware of his past actions and the underlying emotions with it, katyg. So this is a great step forward and I praise him for doing that, telling it to you honestly, and promising to make improvements on his behaviour. If he has a lot of determination and hard work, he will definitely become better. I think you have enough wisdom to know when it is good to continue the relationship and when it is good to stop.

Sultana made a very good idea that you should keep a journal so you know the progress. At first, he might have some more emotional fluctations and bad temper while he tries to get used to his promises. This, again, depends on his personality and capabilities. For example, some people can quit smoking extremely easily. Other people have to slowly decrease their amount of cigarettes until it is 0. Try to keep this in mind, but most importantly, make sure it is within what you can tolerate.

james t kirk

I agree completely.

From what the original poster said, this is way beyond something said in the heat of the moment. The guy is abusive and insecure.

Everyone gets into some roof raising arguements and words get exchanged - whatever, it happens, but what you (original poster) are describing is ongoing abuse. One woman I lived with (ironically from Scotland) would constantly bitch about my friends and family. She was like a broken record. We had some incredible scream-fests with her screaming "I hate you", or me screaming back "I want out", etc. etc. But neither of us either belittled the other (as amazing as that might be thinking back at the heat of arguement) I never told her she was ugly, etc.

If it's a repetative thing that comes up from time to time, you need to leave for some-one else. As to the dope smoking, I'm not so sure he wont' get back into that too. At the very least, you need to draw yourself a mental line in the sand (if he starts smoking dope again, if he starts another arguement and belittles you, if he calls you names again) and if he crosses it, you leave and don't look back.

I have a question for you though - why would you stay?

Plan9

To quote George Thorogood and the Delaware Destroyers:

This joker needs to... "Get a haircut and get a real job."

You're not a ragdoll, lady. Oh, and... Drugs are bad, m'kay?

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Philangicality

This guy sounds like me, and I am pretty much a mess. I'm working on getting better, but the age of twenty four is young. I know that I am not ready for a serrious happy relationship with a female yet, so pretty much avoiding them is my strategy. Casual sex is deffinetly on the menu. I know this strategy is not teaching me relationship skills, but to me, it is better to not put another person as well as myself through misery now for a weak relationship in the end. I would rather appear as a miserable and aloof person now and then die in some sort of solid and healthy relationship in both appearance and experience.

My guess of why this guy is abusive towards you is because he is trying to chase you away so you don't caught up in his drama. I know it is stupid, but sometimes when our worlds are so dissoriented we do not want to pull others into the bad shit we are experiencing.

Both of your personalities together are chaos and bad for you and him. I would let it go and move on.

Philangicality

Double Post

cyklone

Katyg, I think that one of the more difficult things to learn in this life is that love is just not enough. The real biggy is respect and I don't see a lot of that described in your post. Even then, you have to sit back and ask yourself whether this relationship is good for you or not regardless of whether there is love and respect. If it is not, don't set yourself up for years of dull ache, take the relatively short sharp pain and get out.

MrFriendly

So many things in here I want to comment on, so little time in which to do it.

Katyg, you I think you should do what is best for you. By all means, give the guy another chance, and give the relationship everything you have. But if that effort isn't being reciprocated, then you really need to ask yourself if it's worth it. You have a life too, and you need to look out for yourself.

I think what your partner said to you was beyond harsh, but we all make horrible mistakes we're all ashamed of.

I'm a reformed pot addict, and ngdawg makes a good point. Pot really messes with your shit, although giving it up was one of the easiest things I've ever done. If you feel like exerting any control in the relationship, I reckon you should direct it at him not smoking weed on any regular basis.

We can all tell you what to do, and tell you what we'd do, but there's no emotional attachment for us. Only you truly know the situation, and you have to most to loose. Just don't let yourself get fucked around, as others have said, life's too damn short to be miserable.

All the best

__________________
You are not a slave

katyg

I don't know if I am just too idealistic in my expectations of love.

It's not that I don't think love is hard work, that people don't make mistakes and so on and so fourth. I just feel like it is tainted somewhat now.

We had this lovely meal the other night and I really enjoyed myself, but there's still some part of me thinking 'Is he looking at that prettier girl?', 'Am I wasting my life? He's never going to marry me' etc etc. I'm starting to cry thinking about it.

I just feel like to me he is everything, but even though he says that to me now, and is acting that way, I don't feel it. I don't feel like I am safe, I don't feel like I can trust him and I worry that maybe it was all because there was a prettier girl out there and I am just something to rely on; a sweet, nice person who is maybe too naive.

On the one hand, we could now be moving into the good part and I think we probably are, but there's a crack in my heart that doesn't seem to heal that easily and even though I love him with every bone in my body, the coward in me just wants to run away sometimes because at least then I would be in control.