BulletCatcher

First a little backstory. My wife and I have been married for 5 years and have 2 children ages 3 1/2 and 2. My wife also has a 14 year old son from a previous relationship who has been living with his dad for the past 6 years. Though we live in the same town and she legally has joint custody, we very rarely see him as he prefers to not visit (so her ex says) and my wife has never pressed the matter.

6 weeks ago her son shows up at our doorstep saying his dad kicked him out and wants to know if he can live with us. Of course my wife says yes, he is her son afterall even if they're not exactly close. After getting him settled in we call his dad to find out whats going on and are told that he has become uncontrolable and the dad no longer wants to deal with him and it's my wifes turn to put up with his BS.

So now we have a teenager in the home. It's been quite an upheaval to say the least. I could start several threads about what we've experienced so far but the matter of chat monitoring software is the pressing issue at the moment. We have discovered that he likes to spend a great deal of time on the computer. If we let him, he would spend the entire day chatting with his freinds online. I have limited his access so that the computer he is allowed to use only has access to the internet at certain times during the day and then for only an hour at a time. He doesn't like that he can't go online when he wants but it was the only way I could keep him from being on all the time.

Up until the other day, this was my only real concern with him using the computer. On Monday however, I happened to be walking by and noticed he was online chatting but had gotten up to use the bathroom. I glanced at the screen and just out of curiousity started to read the chat window that was opened. What I read was rather disturbing to me as a parent. I understand that teenagers are not perfect angles (hell I was one myself once ) but some of the things being discussed were definately not age appropriate for a 14 year old.

My initial reaction was to cut him off the computer completely. My wife talked me out of it though saying that we should at least talk to him about first and explain that what I saw was not appropriate and he either needed to voluntarily stop visiting these rooms and clean up his language and subject matter that he posts or he would lose his computer priviledges. He promised to be more careful saying he rarely visits these rooms and on the day in question he just accidentally stumbled across the one I saw (yeah right).

For my wife, that's all that needs to be said on the matter. She truely believes he will keep his word and not visit or post inappropriate content. For myself, I guess I'm not as trusting. I would like to install some chat monitoring software to keep an eye on what he's doing but my wife considers that an invasion of privacy and is strictly against it. I tried to explain to her that it wasn't just about the language and possible sexual/violent postings but I also have a real concern for the saftey of my children. I don't care if it's her son or not, I do not know this kid very well and I don't want him giving out personal information to other people I don't know that could endanger the family if the wrong perons sees it.

Am I being to parinoid? Should I just go ahead and install it against my wifes wishes?

Daniel_

Do not go behind her back.

Talk to her. Explain how worried you are.

If she refuses to change - then leave it. Wait for the shit to hit the fan, and then bite your tongue DO NOT EVER SAY "I TOLD YOU SO".

That said - maybe just move the PC into the living room?

Or - TELL him you've put monitoring software on, even if you've not.

Or tell him that he must keep chatlogs and if he refuses, or cannot show them to you, you remove his access.

Or give him unlimited internet access, but do it (a) via dialup, and (b) make him pay for the calls.

__________________

╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

Janey

First thing to say is that "He promised to be more careful saying he rarely visits these rooms and on the day in question he just accidentally stumbled across " is just a line that 14 y/os have perfected. The aim is to get the parent to stop talking (lecturing) about an embarrassment. I guarantee you he will be back in that room as soon as he can. (my nephews are in that group. and I see how they pull the Eddie Haskall routine on my sister).

My nephews get exactly 1 hour per day for electronics activity: PS2, computer gaming, chatting. this is a result of them not being trustworthy on these machines. Telivision is a different matter, they can watch shows once ALL of their chores/responsibilities are taken care of (homework, Kumon, garbage, showered etc) But they must close up ativities to hit their shut-eye time properly.

It's hard parenting, but since the older one really took advantage of my sis, she brought the boom down. the hardest part is being consistant, and trying to avoid the "be a friend to your child" syndrome.

maleficent

I don't think monitoring software is an invasion of privacy.. but then again, I don't think that 14 year olds are entitled to all that much privacy... Keep a diary if they want privacy... but once they hit the big bad world outside (even online) then it's a parent's responsibility to know what that child is doing, where they are going etc.

Putting the monitoring software on behind your wife's back, however, is wrong. Instead of monitoring software, what about using parental controls in windows and giving the kid his own login to the computer? BUt that needs to be discussed with your wife as well...

I get the feeling that maybe your wife is trying to make up for lost time with her son. That she's been a little detached from his life til now and she wants him to like her... (COuld be wrong though) and she doesnt want to rock the boat with him. Janey's right with the be a friend to your child... She's his parent not his buddy.. He's gonna need some rules and some boundries... and you and your wife have to be on the same page (otherwise if he's a devious child, he can and will play the two of you against each other)

Good luck...

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Bill O'Rights

Been through this with my own. First of all, as mal already stated, 14 year olds are not entitled to all that much privacy. You, as the parent, or in your case...the parental figure, not only have a right to know who, what, when and where he is up to...you have a responsibility to know.
Hey...kids are kids. We've all been there, right? Unless he's into something harmful, and not just over your comfort level, then try to keep a fairly open mind about it. Your wife wants to trust the kid, and that's probably as it should be. Give the kid, and your wife, some latitude. Give him that trust. Until, that is, he's caught abusing it. Then it's time to break out the monitoring software, and the chat logs, etc, etc. Give him a hands on history lesson in what life may have been like in the Soviet Union, under Josef Stalin. Then, gradually...let up, and see if he's picked up on the lesson.

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d*d

It's your computer, not his. Put all the monitoring software you want on it and tell him then you will see just how ingenious a 14 year old boy can be as he finds way to bypass them all. Keep an open dialouge on the subject remind him that you don't want him going on those particular rooms when he goes on the computer- even joke about it, but don't brush it under the carpet or attempt any cloak and dagger type stuff

bobophil

yea, better than that, there are some pretty ingenious software programs out there that dont even show up.

Tell your betrothed that you are simply putting it on for security. S/He shouldnt have any problem with that...

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j8ear

With the caveat of having no experience with any teenagers of my own...

I would discontinue ALL Computer related activities immediately, and let him earn them back if he wants them, and you believe he deserves them...and definately including monitoring, logging and/or blocking software. You can definately be held liable for his activities.

As a former teenage boy yourself you could go a long way to effectively persuading your wife to go along with your experience and knowledge of what being a teenage boy is all about.

I don't know if you know the extraordinary pressures, burdens and inadequacies a broken family and a father who "doesn't want to deal with his BS" can place on a boy, but I suspect you have a clue.

Don't let this get out of hand, be a man, and take care off those who need taking care of.

This young fella is in big time antisocial territory, and he needs a strong effective man to SHOW him how to be a man...instead of devloving into an antisocial deviant who jacks off at 14 to violence and perversion on the internet.

He needs to get involved with PEOPLE...not screen shots or avatars.

Sometimes my postings can come off as having a tone of condescension or are otherwise some how distasteful...that said, I meant nothing of the sort here. I believe you reached out because you already know what is happening and are concerned about it. You know what to do...but are uncertain about how to bring his mother on board.

You've got to find a way...and I think your experience as a former teenage boy is what will suceed. Good luck to you, sir

imho,

-bear

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robot_parade

I'll have to start with the same caveat - I don't have any teenagers. But I do have a 9 y/o boy who's gonna be there sooner than I'm prepared for, and a 2 y/o girl who thinks she's already there. :-)

First, never ever go behind your wife's back regarding something about her son. Where you two draw the line as far as your parenting of the kid goes is between you two (and should be discussed before issues come up, if it hasn't already). Notwithstanding that you shouldn't go behind her back about anything, he is *her* son, not yours, so, imho, she has to call the final shots about decisions regarding him. If you find a decision she makes intolerable, you've got to work that out with her one way or another.

With the kid - I agree with others that his 'I just went there by accident/I hardly ever go there/I'll never go there again' is a standard teenager BS tactic. I remember it well. Ignore it. :-) Don't tell him or show him that you don't believe him or trust him...but don't believe him or trust him.

Here's what I would do (assuming you work out a plan with the wife, of course):

o Install monitoring software
o Tell him you reserve the right to monitor his activities online. Tell him that while you aren't going to make a point of snooping around all the time, he should get used to the fact that his activities online aren't necessarily private.
o Don't get anal or obsessive about it. As he grows up, he's got to learn to make decisions, mostly by making poor ones and getting burned. So don't go constantly checking up on him, and don't talk to him or intervene unless it is something really serious, illegal, dangerous, etc.

I'd do (and plan to do) the above with any of my kids, before any 'problems' show up. If you had such a system already, you could go and check his claim that he 'hardly ever' visits such material. And you'd probably have to go and check, because you weren't being anal about it, and because you've got better things to do than be constantly checking up on him.

It sounds like the kid has already learned to rebel enough to make his bio father basically give up on him, which makes me very sad for the kid. But from the kid's POV, it's also a sign of *power* in a way - "no one can control me, not even my dad - what is my *step*dad going to do?"

So, do you want to get in a power struggle with this 14 year old? You try to force him to do what you say, while he tries to rebel, fight back, making both your lives miserable? I think that's a losing proposition. So change the rules. Let him do whatever the hell he wants, within *very* well-defined and iron-hard parameters. When he violates the rules, make sure there are always consequences. But as much as you can, let him explore, and make mistakes, as much as possible. Acknowledge that you can't force him to do very much - but make sure he understands that you can and will restrict his freedom to a certain degree if he crosses the line.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about how much time he spends on 'the internet', up to a point. I would let him have a fairly large amount of time on the computer (*after* homework and other obligations, of course), but still have a limit.

I disagree with bear about coming down on him so hard, and about removing his computer time completely. I think that will just show him that you don't trust or believe him at all, and he'll just have to find another way to rebel. Maybe next he'll be sneaking out, or doing drugs, or stealing from you, etc. I very much agree with bear's sentimant of being very firm - just not very restrictive. Anyone locked in a box will struggle to get out - but put them in a bumper car arena with walls just as strong and they'll have a blast. I just think the more you tighten your grip, the more he'll fight back, until you're both miserable - especially since it sounds like neither your nor his mother have much of a track record with him.

Most importantly you and your wife have to work out a strategy, and be consistant between you. Remember that to make his dad miserable enough to get to the point that he kicked his own son out, the kid was probably pretty miserable himself. He may be looking, in a way, to see if he can make you and his mom give up on him too. So he's probably going to do dumb, self-destructive, hurtful, rebellious, and dangerous stuff. And he's getting to a scary age where he can pretty easily do himself permanent harm, which is really scary.

Also, try your darndest (you and your wife) to find things that you can be involved with him - even if it's on the 'puter. If you've got two computers, maybe there's an online game you two could play at the same time, or something. Maybe he likes (or would be willing to try) hiking, fishing, camping, baseball game, etc, etc. While most 14 y/o would rather be caught dead than 'out' with their parents, maybe you can find an activity that won't be too mortifying for him to do with his 'crappy family'. :-)

-RN

StanT

It's been a while, but I used logging software when my daughters were teenagers. I was very overt about it, I told them it was there and showed them the results (I didn't show them the 2nd hidden log). Think of it as (step)dad looking over his shoulder while using the computer. As long as you are up front about it, I don't see the problem. He can use a computer at school if he doesn't like the rules.

shakran

Read that part twice, because it's the most important thing to remember. You're the parent. You're directly responsible for anything your did does until he's an adult. The kid has no expectation of privacy. Any you grant him, he has to earn.

Now you've caught him surfing to places he shouldn't be. He's not earned any privacy.

I wouldn't go behind his back in installing the software - - he doesn't need to think of you as the spook. Tell him upfront. I'm installing the software. If I catch you going to these sites again, I'm removing the computer.

And then you'll need to check his computer quite often because kids are almost always better than parents with technology. My parents used to lock the computer on me when they weren't around (this was long before the days of monitoring software - - -too bad they never knew I knew how to bypass the lock. Your kid will probably have the software bypassed an hour after you install it

Cynthetiq

that's the key right there....

SET the expectation.

HOLD them accountable to the expectation.

FOLLOW thru with the consequences of not living up to the expectation.

If you have ANOTHER computer in the house, you can setup VNC or Timbuktu to actively watch while they are online. which CANNOT be bypassed or removed if you've set it up correctly. You can also set up expectations and rules that if the monitoring software is tinkered with or not capturing data consistently... then that's same consequence as having visited questionable sites.

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analog

1. trying to merge the thoughts, "he's talking dirty" and "he's capable of giving out personal information i think is important" is stupid. They're so far from each other on the spectrum of personality. I don't care how little you know about the kid, THAT IS HOW FOURTEEN YEAR OLDS TALK NOW. You can either get over your dillusions (and i mean this to everyone, not as an indivisual attack on the original poster) that your teenagers have anything but nasty, disgusting, graphic, foul conversations, or you can jerk yourself off to all the monitering software in the world until you really find out exactly what he's talking about..

Parents are so pompous about privacy. Yes, it's your house, and no, they aren't owed any privacy at that age- but use your fucking heads for a moment. You can't shield them from everything in the world, and you can't tell them what to think or how to think.

That is this kid's persona. This is who they're going to be. You can be a positive influence, or you can be an asshole. That's all they understand, and you know it. Use your brain first, before your mouth, and do something to change your situation in a positive way, not just sit there re-reading hours of chat sessions looking for that gold nugget of personal information or whatever you believe is somehow putting you in danger.

Xazy

I have no kids, and I think a teenager is a bit different then a child. So I will start on what is not exactly the topic, and move from there. I think that a kids computer should always have monitoring software, before becoming a teen (so the teen should expect it). And it is not only a matter of trust of the child as an issue, but also the kids friends. For example my niece (who is 8), had a friend over who tried going to www.sex.com. The monitoring software found out, they spoke with the parents, etc.. and in the end no foul happened, but without the watch guard she could have seen stuff at that age.

As a teenager, it depends a lot on your relationship with the kid. You have to think for a second how teenagers think. Most teenagers by the age of 14-15 think they know everything. As time goes on they will realize otherwise. If you never had any safeguards on they might totally rebel and get upset about it.

But as someone who was a teenager in the beginning of the internet stage, I will say my kid will have monitoring software on it.

I do feel that we are supposed to filter and shield are kids from stuff in the world. It is knowing how to limit exposure of items that we feel are 'unhealthy' for them at their stage of life, until they are ready for it.

How to react at this point is based on how your relationship is with the kid. If you never had rules and all of a sudden do a 180 the kid will rebel. You know your kid best, but whether you can just put on the software or need to take baby steps to get there, you should know best.

feelgood

Well, parenting is a old profession (although, you don't get paid for it ) but Technology like computers are very very new.

I'd have to say that Monitor software is a combination of both good parenting and invasion of privacy.

It's a good parenting b/c you don't want your children, especially teenagers to access materials that are somewhat questionable (porno, illegal downloads, chatting about questionable topics, etc).

When it comes to privacy in chatrooms, it's pretty hard to define a fine line between what's good to talk about and what isn't good. I tend to view chatting with people online is the same as talking to your friends in person or on the phone.

The reality is this: It's YOUR computer in YOUR house and it's just as the same if your stepson is talking to his friend in your house. It's up to you how your stepson should conduct himself, especially in your own home.

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The Magic

Does anyone here record the phone conversations their children have?

Does anyone here have their children's backpack, or clothes, or music player bugged so they can monitor what they say when they're off alone with friends?

Let's face it, just because it's easy to install this software and it's easy to justify due to ownership of the computer, or even by some claim as to better the child, doesn't mean that the software should be placed on it.

First of all, teens are going to talk a lot of shit with their friends. It's what we do. No, it doesn't mean he'll grow up to be a horrible person. My friends and I may yell at each other over the internet (on microphones) calling each other certain racial terms or genital areas while playing computer games, but that doesn't suddenly make me a horrible failure. Not only do I consider myself a fairly moral person, I am also succeeding well in school (starting college next year with sophmore standing and probably will triple major). So just because he might have a couple crazy conversations doesn't mean anything, end of line.

Secondly, just stop and think about what you will be doing. You're not protecting him from unwanted webpages (though you can), you're not adding security software to your computer (though it might enhance that), you are instead spying on his own personal conversations. Just as I asked above, would you record their phone conversations? Would you bug their clothes so you can hear what they say when they're outside with friends? Just because the conversations are on text over the internet doesn't make it immune to the fact that you would be spying on the kid's personal conversation.

Now, I'm not advocating that you shouldn't prohibit certain webpages or limit their time on the computer. That's just as if you were limiting your child from going to certain places or talking on the phone for however many hours a day.

Know where your kid has gone, what they were up to, who they were with, but monitoring their chat is a whole different type of "genuine concern". Just because someone is a child's parent does not grant them the right to act as the Gestapo and determine what their child may or may not talk about and in what manner. Of course if they're directly talking to you they need to watch what they say, just as ANY person would, but when they're with their friends it's their own game.

shakran

If the kid gives me reason to suspect he might be talking about things he should not be talking about, you're bloody right I'll monitor any conversation I can. I won't bug his backpack because I don't have a bug, but I'll certainly monitor what he does on the internet.

This "invasion of privacy" crap is just an excuse for lazy parenting. I'd much rather "invade" his non-existant right to privacy than feel responsible when I discover the kid's doing drugs or getting into some other major trouble. Kids are called kids and not adults for a reason. They're not always real good at making decisions that will benefit them later in life. Hell I used to make explosives when I was a kid just for fun - it's a miracle I'm still here with all my limbs intact. Had my parents done a better job of policing my idiotic behavior they might have found the bomb-making supplies in my closet. Sure it worked out for me, but it could easilly have resulted in a serious injury or death of myself or other people.

I'm not unrealistic enough to think I'll catch everything the kid does wrong - no parent can unless the kid is locked in a cage 24/7, and even then it's iffy. But that's damn sure not gonna stop me from trying.

Don't get me wrong. If my kid earns my trust then I'll trust him - but if he does crap that shows me he's going down the wrong path, I'm gonna be on him constantly because that's my job, and I'm not gonna use some BS excuse to get out of having to do it.

StanT

As a parent that has used logging software, I'm going to disagree. I am legally responsible for my childrens actions up to the age of 18. Yes, I'm aware that kids talk shit, just as their parents do. I really have better things to do than scan through pages of logs daily. My daughters were aware that I logged their activity. They kept that in mind while on the Internet. Rather than snooping, it kept them from doing things that they didn't want dad to see. I only looked through the logs, when they gave me a reason to do so.

I don't buy the comparison to spying. If you have a questionable conversation in a public place, you have no reasonable expectation of privacy. I have set up my computer and internet connection so that no one should expect privacy.

Jinn

Let me all you remind you the legality of this issue. Contrary to what you may BELIEVE is justified, in most states you cannot record a convseration that you are "not a party to." In the case of a phone, this means that if you're not a known participant or listener then you CANNOT record the conversation. Just because it is your phone does not excuse this type of wiretapping (read: spying). If someone else uses your phone and you record it without their consent, it is illegal. I might be a bit biased on this issue as a privacy advocate for the EFF, but monitoring your children's behavior like this is absolutely ridiculous. "Fuck shit damn ass cunt bitch whore.. " if you're really worried that your kid is talking about this online.. he's doing it at school.

ACTION, not REACTION. Good parenting would be letting your children make their own decisions. I know too many "adults" who need constant guidance and handholding because their parents never let them do things without Daddy watching over. If you properly explained to your children about things like sex and drugs and violence and chauvinism BEFORE letting them on the Internet, then monitoring them is a moot point. It's a power issue, and you want to be the one making the rules.. its as simple as that. If your son or daughter knows what SEX is, how it works, how to abstain, or how to use effective contraception.. then that conversation about sex with his friends shouldn't worry you. He's not being misinformed by some illiterate "d00d" in a chatroom. Likewise if you've educated your children about internet safety -- don't give out your real name, use aliases, uses alphanumeric passwords.. don't talk to strangers. These are all concepts we're familiar with in the "real world" and you are simply failing to teach your children these. Children are FAR smarter and rational then we give them credit for, assuming they've been educated. The action is education, the reaction is spying.

The only positive influence this would have is to make your child more computer literate. I know if I were confronted with these types of logging or website blocking, I would immediately attempt to remove them. They're illegal on adults.. just because they're your kids doesn't mean you have to treat them like shit.

StanT, I am certainly not attacking your method of monitoring. Informing your children that it is there is far MUCH better parenting them installing it covertly. The only reason for making your installation secret is that you WANT to catch your son or daughter doing something "questionable".. not because you want to be a good parent. Its akin to any system of laws... if you don't inform people that murdering someone is illegal, and instead wait until they murder someone so you can 'catch' them.. its unfair and unenforceable. If you let them know ahead of time, they can actually use that to make better decisions. If you know your father is watching you, that will factor into your decision to click Big Black Guy Dicks.com ...


...They really do need a 100-hour certification class before you can be parents..

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Cynthetiq

First, know the laws of the state you are in. Linda Tripp got herself into some hot water for not knowing.

I live in NYC, it's a SINGLE PARTY STATE which means that I do not have to get permission from ANYONE. Me telling someone is just a courtesy and I cannot tell you how many times I've SURPRISED people with transcripts of conversations and details they claim they never said. They don't believe the transcript, I play the tape.

Second, a parent can also just say NO TV, NO PHONE, NO COMPUTER, if they so choose to. Other kids will ridicule them but I have seen it happen when I was growing up. Observing how your children interact with each other and the world is important in understanding how to "compromise" as people have said in previous threads and posts.

Third, I agree with the certification but unfortunately you'll have some people who will insist that religion and "intelligent design" is included in tht 100 hours.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Sage

It sounds like the 14 year old just needs some parents. His real father doesn't sound like that great of a guy to begin with, and every boy I've ever seen at that age is really awkward and rebellious and has a head full of hormones. So, step in and be the hero- educate this kid about stuff, make sure he knows what's real and what's not, what's good and bad (you can debate this one with your wife all night long, I won't start here), and that you can't make LSD from a sitck of gum and a rotten orange (one of my friends is a grad school Chem major and still thinks you can). I really like some of the things people have said on here about giving them boundaries, and then letting them do whatever they want within those boundaries. That's a really good way to make sure your kids grow up respecting you- you're letting them explore, but you're keeping them safe while they're doing it. I wish my parents had been more like that- they never actually *told* me what the boundaries were, so I grew up feeling like there were certian things I couldn't talk about with them, sex being the main thing. This led to an uncomfortable and unfortunate ignorance on my part as to how to relate to my parents, something I'm still dealing with and I'm 22.

Good luck, and remember- everyone was 14 at one point in time!

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shakran

Wrong. MANY states are single party states, but even if they aren't, or even if neither the kid nor the person he's talking to knows you're monitoring, it's still legal.

1) the wiretapping laws refer to telephone communications. It's been well established in anti-spam cases invoking the 1995 TCPA that computers aren't considered telephones or even telephone facscimile devices.

2) The wiretapping laws involve PHONE lines. Most internet connections these days don't use one - they use a dedicated subscriber line, or the cable network.

3) Caselaw supports monitoring your kid. In Thompson v. Dulaney (838 F. Supp. 1535, 1544) the 6th circuit court of apppeals found that "As long as the guardian has a good faith basis that is objectively reasonable for believing that it is necessary to consent on behalf of her minor children to the taping of the phone conversations, vicarious consent will be permissible in order for the guardian to fulfill her statutory mandate to act in the best interests of the children."

In other words, if you suspect your kid is messing up, YOU can consent to the wiretap FOR him.




Check. Next time my kid wants to run in front of a bus, I'll just let him. After all, gotta let him make his own decision right? Now that I hopefully have you saying no to that, letting your kid set up drug deals online is no better than letting him run in front of that bus.

Check. Tell the kid something's bad and he shouldn't do it, and, contrary to the nature of children the world over, he won't have ANY instant desire to do it. Do you remember your childhood? If my parents told me not to do something, that's the FIRST thing I wanted to do. That's part of being a kid. And it's part of being a responsible parent to make sure they don't do things which will harm them.

Uh. Yeah. It's a parent / child relationship, not a meeting of equals. As a parent, you DO make the rules. If you have a problem with that concept, you should not be a parent.

Do you believe in the "preach only abstinence and the kids will follow it blindly" approach too? I'm not worried if my kid talks about sex with his friends. I'm worried if my kid is talking to a total stranger on the internet about sex, when that stranger could be a pedophile. Again, it's my JOB to protect my children. Anyone who tells you the kid's privacy trumps your responsibility to protect your kid, is telling you that you should not do your JOB.

That's absurd. Hell ADULTS don't even follow that advice when they're educated. Why would you expect your kid to just because you told him to?

Last time I checked, making sure my kid grows up safely without getting raped or getting hooked on crack is not treating him like shit. You seem to believe it is.



Nice try, but your attempt at an argument shift is too obvious. We inform our kids that doing drugs is forbidden. If we then catch them, they get in trouble. You're suggesting we're not telling them not to do drugs. In fact, we're telling them not to do drugs, but we don't tell them every method we use to determine if they are obeying that order.

And the US justice system works exactly the same way. They tell you not to kill people, but they won't tell you every method they'll use to catch you because they don't want you to figure out a way around it.

Thanks for proving our point for us though!

Mephisto2

Emphasis added.

That's an entirely unjustified comment.

You're accusing someone of not wanting their kids to be raped or getting hooked on crack just because they don't think monitoring software is appropriate?

I think the majority of advice given on this thread has been good, but comments like that make you sound like a rabid version of Rove on speed.

If you have advice, give it without insulting other people's parenting techniques or opinions.


Mr Mephisto

Angrymom

Ok, this is to Bulletcatcher. I am coming to you from the mind set of a teenager in a mixed family. He is scared and he is trying to find out who he is. He may not know how to vent his anger and fear. He is testing the boundaries on what he is allowed to get away with from each of you. You may need to send him to a counselor. He may need an outlet for his fears and anger. He feels out of place, he sees your family that you and his mother have made without him. And he does not know what to do.

So here is what you need to do (at least this is what I think): sit him down and tell him that he has to respect the rules just like everyone else in the family. Tell him that now he is part of your family that you would like him to respect your rules. But do it in a manner that does not sound like you are nagging him. Make sure that you make him feel like part of your family. He is very user about what his role is in your household. Try reaching out to him as a male. Remeber your own words you were his age at one time, too.

Good luck and I hope I helped just a little.

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Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time'a!

pattycakes

what exactly is he looking at talking about?

when i was 14 i looked at porn on the computer... i cybered.... i talked smack

hes 14 so he wants to see naked chicks hes 14 he wants to have sex but cant so he cybers. hes 14 he wants to say something to someone maybe even his dad, but cant so he says something to someone online.tunring 21 tommrow i rember how much being 14 and having the internet helped me be a "good kid"

i looked at porn instead of going out and getting drunk or high

is he trying to build bombs.....what is he doing that is so wrong, maybe i missed it in your post

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pattycakes

....when i was 14 i showed friends how to bypass that gay aol parental control, i could disable anything or uinstall anything you wanted. if he spends so much time ont he pc he too will be able to do this

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shakran

Bull.

We've been saying on this whole thread that we advocate the monitoring BECAUSE it helps to keep the kid out of danger - danger such as getting raped or starting drugs.

Then this guy steps in and says monitoring the kid is treating him like shit. It's a logical extension of his thought process. I said that to point out that if the choice is between monitoring the kid, keeping him safe, and not monitoring the kid, exposing him to danger, then monitoring the kid is NOT treating him like shit.

Blue Fish

I have a brother-in-law who had a teenage boy come into his home due to marriage and was faced with this same problem. Yes he monitored. Yes he talked. Yes the exchange between him and the kid would get heated. But over time the relationship smoothed out and IMO the kid has turned out to be a better person.

Before moving into the home the kid was pretty much left to run his own life. His mother stuck to the 'friendship' parenting style and rarely confronted his inappropriate behavior. He was close to expulsion from school, had a D grade average, was sleeping all day/out all night, lied constantly about what he was doing, drinking/getting high frequently, chatting about 'getting head, getting laid', etc. Many argue that this is 'normal' teen action. Much of it is but it is the extent to which they do it that either makes it normal learning life behavior or behavior that is going to lead to problems.

A kid smoking a joint every now and then is much different then a kid selling pot to everyone else in school. A kid that is 'experimenting' with sexual activity is different then one who is having frequent sex with numerous partners. A kid with the potential to do decent in school but is failing due to lack of guidance/motivation is a waste.

Unfortunately, my brother-in-law found himself parenting a kid who was on the destructive side of this behavior. It was a rough first year but after sticking to his guns about accepting only appropriate behavior the boy is now a B+ student, actively involved in school sports and attitude wise is a pleasure to be around. The mom has also come to realize that strong parenting is necessary as well as friendship parenting. None of us are naive enough to think that he is now an angel, but the teenage 'behavior' is now under control and not negatively effecting his life.

Every child is different and fortunately in this situation the child changed.

Apache

I say its your computer and you have the right to put what you want on it. Besides you have other children in the house and if he was so careless to leave things open a child who is just hitting buttons could have easily seen things they shouldn't as well.

I would put it on the computer and tell him it's there. If he does figure a way around it or how to disable it then you need to take the computer away for good because apparently he's still going places he shouldn't.

pattycakes

i asked my mother aboutif she ever worried about what i did on the internet and she said.

I did nothing but give you and your brother a foundation.i did my best and by the time you were 14 you were old enough to make some desicions by yourself. If they werebad decisions i was there to catch you, or to pick you back up. You and your brother always had a seperate set of rules than on the weekend when your stepbrothers were here. They needed to learn something their mother wasnt teaching them. ( ie manners)

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Lasereth

I think monitoring software is invasion of privacy. Tell your kids to not give out personal info on the Internet. Tell them to stay away from any type of "free" stuff or any type of "deal." Never put in personal info. Never put in personal info. Never put in personal info. If you ever catch your kids doing the aforementioned activities, take the fucking computer away like my mom did to my sister.

Monitoring chatting or which websites your kids go to (especially a damned teenager) is ridiculous. I'm glad my parents weren't computer savvy enough to monitor what I was doing...that would have ruined my early PC experiences. I learned about the Internet myself and I'm proud of it. There's no way to learn about what is good and bad on the Internet if you're being controlled. Whatever the kid is saying on the Internet is the exact thing they're saying off of the computer...so why ruin a huge new world for someone to explore?

Make your kid(s) understand that giving out personal info on the Internet is the biggest mistake you can make. Tell your kids that if they have any question about content they see on the Internet that they can always ask about it. Limiting the Internet experience for a teenager isn't necessary...it's simply an inquiring mind wanting to know what lies in the vast sea of bits and bytes. When you're old enough to use a computer and the Internet, it's not uncommon to want to know what over a billion webpages hold within and talk to friends without using the phone. Let the kids enjoy the experience while protecting themselves.

-Lasereth

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"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

shakran

aww please. Invasion of privacy? Kids have no privacy rights. Kids deserve no privacy rights. That's why they're kids - because a responsible adult is supposed to be watching what they do to make sure they don't do something that'll screw their lives up. Now I can either sit over my kid's shoulder every time he's at the computer or I can install software that will alert me when he goes somewhere he's not supposed to.
But either way, I'm not going to abdicate my parental responsibility by using the lame excuse "gee, he won't LIKE it because he wants PRIVACY."

Lasereth

So teenagers shouldn't have privacy? I'm not talking about a 8 or 10 year old here. I'm talking about a teenager. Not giving a teenager privacy is bullshit. If you don't give them privacy, when do they get it? When they move out?

-Lasereth

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"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

spongy

The other side of this coin is that as a parent you are responsible for the actions of the kid in your care.. here in Alasak, if your 14 year old eggs teh school, or breaks car windows, you have to pay when they get caught, so i ask.. is this a case of forewarned is forearmed?

Once you see they are doing ok online, you watch less.. kinda like driving instructions.. youre still there just inputting less.

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The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

Stephen King