Strange Famous

I think she is over-reacting... I do have dark moods sometimes, especially before Christmas and the last week has been bad too: but its not like I ever have suicidal thoughts, and I couldnt imagine ever having them really.

I dont think I could stand to take medication that affected my mood - to me it would not only be an admission of weakness, but I think it makes you reliant on it. I dont see what else a doctor can do. Talking about being sad most times just makes me wallow in my self absorbtion and feel worse.

I mean, a lot of people get down sometimes - it isnt that unusual. I hold down a job, I dont break the law, I dont hurt anyone else, I am never going to kill myself - if sometimes I feel down or that I have no energy, that effects a lot of people, I dont think its clinical depression.

I just have low self esteem because of my weight, and certain things that happened to me when I was younger... Im in a lot of financial problems which does stress me out sometimes - but I dont see how going to see a doctor and getting medical records logged that any potential future employer can see and hold against me is gonna do much good.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

roachboy

this is a tough question.
frankly, i dont see how anyone on a messageboard could have enough information to say much that would be helpful for you.....

the problem isn't whether you have down periods or not--not per se--it's more about whether they get in the way of being functional (not to mention relatively happy in a kind of insane world)---so if you want advice (that goes beyond agreeing with what you post as an op simply because you're basically asking us to agree with you):
why do you think she is saying this (if answering would not involve compromising privacy too much)?
has she explained it?
most folk would explain...it's a kind of heavy suggestion to just drop on someone...

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Xazy

I will tell you going to a therapist can be great, and everyone can gain something from seeing one. I say that not just because Doc (my wife) has a PSYD and it would mean more patients, but because it is true. It helps you learn better how to deal with your issues and your problems, and may not change other people but how you deal with them.

As far as medical records not sure what part you mean, if you go to a Psychiatrist vs Psychologist. If you are dealing with emotional issues and you do not think you are very depressed then Psychologist is probably more the direction you should go. Psychologist expertize is dealing with emotional issues, and helping you work through these problems. Psychiatrist is more for people who are more severally impacted by the issues and need medication.

As far as medical records go which future employers can see. A lot of people including executives see therapists, and employers do not have access to medical records (only insurance companies should have access). And if you do not go through insurance then there is no paper trail at all, except for the Dr, who can not reveal it (at risk of his/her license).

But my challenge to you is this, if you go you have to be open, because if you do not go open and willing to accept and embrace therapy then there is no point in going.

Daniel_

I'd say go and talk to your GP - after all it's already paid for.

I've known several people that benefitted from this sort of intervention - after all the WORST that will come of it is improved harmony with your woman when she realises you did what she wanted, and the best is that someone helps you find a strategy that mitigates or prevents your black moods.

Give it a go.

__________________

╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

Willravel

Strange, just fyi psychologists are like medical doctors: you should get a checkup every now and again to make sure everything is in working order. There would be no harm in going in and just talking for an hour.

Doesn't NHS cover it? I mean it'd cost like $120 for me to talk to a shrink over here for an hour.

Lubeboy

Just tell her you hate holidays. I know I do.

SecretMethod70

Yes. (Note, I've read nothing of this thread other than the title.)

That said, I don't think you have clinical depression. Unless you're feeling suicidal or can barely function in life at all, it's rather unlikely. But from the personality traits you've demonstrated on TFP, I do think you'd benefit from getting some impartial, professional perspective on your life. The most most recent example was your thread, beating yourself up over an 8 minute mile, despite being admittedly overweight. I don't think you're depressed, but I do get the impression that you have severely low self-esteem. You should see someone about that. And regardless of what you are or are not diagnosed with, you don't have to take any medication that you don't want to. In most cases, it's perfectly possible to overcome mental health challenges without medication.

Now that I've read the thread, there are some good responses here. The distinction between psychiatrist and psychologist is an important one. And then there are just plain therapists too, which would probably be good enough for you.

Of course, maybe things work a little differently in the UK. I honestly don't know.

__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

robot_parade

If a loved one recommends that you see a doctor - *do it*. As others on the thread have mentioned, there's nothing wrong with seeing a therapist. He/she might be able to help you smooth out some of the rough edges around the holidays.

shesus

I agree with secret method. You do exhibit signs of depression through your posts on the board. However, going to a therapist isn't going to be helpful unless you are open and willing to change.

You don't necessarily need to see a therapist or take medication. It's amazing how much diet and daily habits can affect your mood. Try cutting out processed foods and eating fresh or frozen fruits and vegetables for awhile. Also, exercise is very important. Sounds obvious, but it's amazing how many people don't take the 'easy' fix. I know I was amazed at the results. I don't know why I waited so long to change my diet. I have more energy and feel a lot better overall. I have had no depression tendencies in a couple of months.

However, it all comes down to what you want. If you don't see a problem, you don't have anything to fix. If you do see a problem, you need to jump in and do something about it. Talking about doing something is stalling behavior.

__________________
Whatever did happen to your soul?
I heard you sold it

Choose Heaven for the weather and Hell for the company

ColonelSpecial

While I can't diagnose anything over the internet, you sound like you are going through kind of what I have gone through. At the time, I didn't have any extra income to devote to going to see a therapist but the local county mental health service was able to help me find one on a sliding scale based on income. I was opposed to taking any medication as well but found talking about it with someone helped loads. I didn't go for very long, maybe 4 months but it really helped. That all being said, I don't know how things work in the UK but maybe there is something similar. Maybe it isn't depression, maybe it is Seasonal Affective Disorder but talking about it will at least start to get an answer.

__________________
"Mommy, the presidents are squishing me!"

"Using the pull out method of contraceptive is like saying I won't use a seat belt, I'll just jump out of the car before it hits that tree."

Sara

Kahn

I don't know you at all, and I'm not a certified anything other than a smartass .. but I'm smart and I slept at a Holiday Inn last night. That being said, if someone close to you feels you have a problem that needs the attention of a professional, they must care about you a great deal if they are going to bother enough to tell you that. It might be prudent to show them you care enough about their opinion to take them seriously. At the very worst, you will waste a day in a painless situation that will at the very least, make her feel better that you tried.

From personal experience, I can tell you that therapy is a great experience. You don't have to take any medications you're not comfortable with (and may not need any at all), anything you say is held in the strictest of confidences, and it's great having someone intelligent there to just open up and say what's on your mind .... whatever that may be.

__________________
Attention everyone: We have another potential asshole in the area !

You don't have bad luck, the reason bad things happen to you is because you're a dumbass !!

Dinner $50
Drinks $30
Motel $40

Finding out she swallows -
PRICELESS!!!

Hain

I read the first original post and skimmed through some responses but I have this to say:

You have some body image issues from your weight, right? I don't know you that well so sorry if this is a moot point: why not pick up jogging with her. She wants you to see a someone. You aren't classically depressed and from what I read stubborn enough like the guy next to you where you don't want to go to therapy. It works on many fronts: one, your body image changes when you actually get into jogging; two, exercising helps release endorphins; three, it gives you two an activity together.

When I had some body image issues and was feeling down, jogging and weight lifting seemed to pick up my spirits, immediately. I was avidly working out in my spare time for about 2-hours a day, 4-days a week, for nearly 2 1/2 years and I felt great.

abaya

Exactly. And I agree with everyone else who has said that you strongly exhibit symptoms of some kind of depression, even just through your posts on this board... people who are in a healthy state of mind regarding their own self-esteem and self-image do not write the way that you do on this board, not even close. I believe you do need help. And if the person who is closest to you in your life also thinks you need help, I'd say you'd better get it fast.

Personally, I am not attracted to people who think they are too good for therapy, or are somehow above it. I have spent quite a bit of time seeing psychologists, and it got me through a lot of shit... if my significant other (long before he became my husband) had refused to go to therapy, that might have been the end. It's THAT important to me, that my significant other doesn't have a huge enough ego to think that he's too good to ask for professional help. I don't know if your girlfriend feels the same way, but if you ignore her request for a long enough time, she might end up feeling that way, too. Why take the chance? What's the risk in just trying it?

I'd love to see the tone of your posts on TFP change as a result of you going to therapy. I am quite sure that we would all notice the difference in you. Yes, it's that bad.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

allaboutmusic

Some wise words here so far. Another thing I've noticed is the way you carry yourself in the photos of yourself you have posted here, SF. You don't have to spend megabucks, but taking care of your appearance can have a huge impact on your self esteem... I'm not just talking about weight, but also things like the type of clothes you wear, your grooming (hair, facial hair, etc), and a great smile. These are all relatively simple "fixes" that will change the way you see yourself, the way people see you, and because they react differently to you, it has a positive effect on the whole feedback loop.

jewels

If I could afford it, I'd go to therapy at least once a week. A good therapist is almost like a sounding board who will help you to see you as you really are, not the distorted view you have of yourself.

Therapy isn't about wallowing. It's about picking yourself up. If you click with your therapist, it can only be good. Every time my insurance has paid for 13 weeks (or whatever it was), I'd always walk out of the therapist's office feeling like a million bucks. I think you will, too.

__________________
We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
Mark Twain

genuinegirly

You're functional. You're comfortable.
If you ever find yourself without one of these two critical things, then go seek help.

Sounds like you're managing it very well. If you're ever interested in visiting with someone who can teach you how to deal with it even better, that's what counseling is all about.

Jumping to the conclusion that you need medication is rash. The girlfriend needs to know her place. Medicating is a suggestion that only a physician, familiar with your situation, should make.

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

Jinn

To each their own.

Do you want to go? If no, don't. If yes, go.

I prefer unpaid friends for my "sounding board," but a therapist works for others.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

JamesB

Just a thought, Strange Famous .. have you been getting much sunlight lately?

If you find your moods are cyclical with the 'down' times during the winter months, you may be suffering from seasonal affective disorder. SAD like any other condition has any number of 'severities' and if you fit the traits, you may be suffering from a mild case.

__________________
-- apt-get install spare_time --

high_jinx

also, after skimming through your OP and everyone else, i particularly noticed you said you were dealing with some stuff that happened to you when you were young.... that's stuff that will DEFINITELY benefit being worked out in therapy. as far as pills, i believe more in those as a last resort. i'd try EVERYTHING else from what people on here have reccomended to even easter medicine before i let myself go down rx avenue.

__________________
-my phobia drowned while i was gettin down.

thespian86

Go to the doctor. What does it hurt? I'm a mentally ill young man, it's not much fun, but Strange, I hated how I felt before I saw a doctor. I hate it less now. Know what I'm saying.

__________________
EX: Whats new?
ME: I officially love coffee more then you now.
EX: uh...
ME: So, not much.

snowy

I have to agree with abaya. To be honest, SF, I have thought for a while now that you ought to seek some professional help. While you might not see yourself as a sad or a depressed person, you definitely give off that impression. Your lack of motivation to change your life in a positive manner is what has the alarm bells ringing in my head. I was much the same way for a long, long, long time--and most of it was due to depression. For me, the solution was medication and self-help. I used cognitive-behavioral therapy techniques I picked up from a seminar on depression, as well as what I had learned in psychology courses to outline how to help myself. Now I am off the meds but stick with the therapy--which is basically a regimen of what I need to do in order to keep myself physically and mentally healthy (this includes daily exercise, yoga, meditation, a chore list, a daily to-do list, all designed to keep me moving and motivated).

My recommendations:
1) Talk to your GP. They can point you in the direction of a specialist, or suggest ways you might change your daily life to mitigate the impact of depression. They might also prescribe medication, which can be helpful in allowing you time to get used to the changes you will need to make in your life.
2) Start moving. Period. Daily exercise is HUGE--and yes, you should be doing at least one cardiovascular activity 4x a week to get those endorphins going. Bicycling, walking, running--something. For a long time, I had a 3x5 card taped to my computer monitor that read: "Why are you sitting?" To that end, limit your time spent on the computer if possible.
3) Yoga. Yes, this might seem like a ridiculous suggestion, but yoga helps your mind and body get in tune with one another.
4) Start journaling. This was recommended to me by one of my psych profs. Just the act of getting the negative thoughts out there, the negative emotions--it's incredibly cleansing. Plus, as you begin to make progress, you have a concrete record of the progress you've made.
5) Eat happy foods. Eat food that makes you feel better--not worse. Think on that for a moment. I love double cheeseburgers, but I know I feel awful after I eat one. I'd much rather eat a turkey sandwich loaded with veggies on whole wheat and feel happy about my choice--despite my love of double cheeseburgers.
6) Cut yourself some slack, but not too much. Getting out of the hole of depression takes some work. Sometimes it takes multiple tries. Don't feel guilty if a technique or tactic doesn't work. Move on to something else. If you make a bad decision, it's best to examine it thoroughly once and then pack it away and move on, versus harping on it and overanalyzing it to death.
7) CONSTANT VIGILANCE!!! Getting out of depression often means sticking to firm routines and making lots of lists. When I first started, I literally had a checklist of all of the things I needed to do to be healthy on a daily basis.

Here is a link to a website that outlines the seminar I attended and found helpful, the website has many of the materials I modified to suit my personal needs, including the Star Chart: http://www2.hawaii.edu/~jharris/wsc/..._fast/out.html

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

ruggerp11

I went into my GP just to ask if there was a way to even everything out. I, like you, had times of great happiness with occasional valleys of sadness. Not enough to think OMG I must be bi-polar but enough to ask the doc if I could just get a little more regular. Thankfully she didn't suggest a high fiber diet but instead talked to me about certain prescriptions that help keep that even keel.

Now, that being said, I don't' take these anymore. I've found that when I'm down enough to be considering seeing someone about it, I need a lifestyle change. I needed to get away from a girlfriend I was seeing or into a situation where I was happier.

When it's all said and done I agree with onesnowyowl.

__________________
Patriotism means being loyal to your country all the time and to its government when it deserves it.
--Mark Twain
Do What makes you happy
--Me
BUT!
"Happiness is the absence of the striving for happiness" - Chuang-Tzu

Strange Famous

Well... I feel better now, so I can talk about it rationally.

I think the reason she thinks I should is based on her own experiences. She has had a lot of issues and without going into details had a pretty serious incident 18 months ago.

But, arrogant as it may sound - I kind of KNOW I dont feel the same as she did, or the same as my mother did/does (who has been on anti depressants about 10 years)

I have these black moods, every few months for maybe a couple of days, maybe a week, then I just seem to lift myself out of it. Maybe I do have something that someone would classify as a condition, but I think I can deal with it, I just go underground and write depressing things till I lift out of it again. I do push people away when I feel down, but Ive never been down a long amount of time.... and I just need space.

I think I do have low self esteem. Mostly it comes through as wry self depreciation, when I hit a bad patch I can come over a bit desperate and hateful of myself.

When I am low, I know I am, and I dont make big decisions or do things based on the feelings I have, I just work myself out to be on my own and wait for it to pass. I think I can deal with just thats the facts of the way I am. Sometimes when I was younger I kind of used to worry that I might end up to be the person I pretend I am when I am in a bad patch... but these days I think I understand it better.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

thespian86

Not to be a downer Strange but that is often the case. It is something, nagging, every once and while, etc for most of your life. Then it becomes two weeks. Then it's a month. The problem is, you begin to not see the difference and when people bring it up you'll have the same attitude: "It's no big deal".

What scares me about your post isn't you describing your problems it's you shrugging off the potential problems. "I don't make big decisions or do things based on the feelings I have"; it might come to the point where you won't see the line, like I said earlier, and you won't be able to properly judge what state you are in. You'll defend your decisions but it will be completely biased by your illness. You'll begin to push people away through your decisions or lack thereof. It's scary.

I realize right away that you might have some reservations about seeing a specialist or even a doctor about it because you seem to have two loved ones with the same problem. It seems to me that maybe because you see their problem you might be scared to admit you might suffer the same way sometimes. Which brings me to another point; you postponing this is most likely based completely on these bad patches because you might be subconsciously frightened of the outcome.

Here is the thing. The worst thing that can happen is you are prescribed a drug that doesn't fit your lifestyle; it is however an easy fix as all you have to do is call up your GP and he'll find you another. It can be hit or miss, and it can be frustrating (trust me), but it is well worth finding something that can help you live a life without that burden (trust me again). My life was completely thrown into limbo when it hit me three years ago and I've recovered but life has certainly changed. You don't need that, trust me. I keep saying that but since I started taking my meds my word is worth a lot more.

__________________
EX: Whats new?
ME: I officially love coffee more then you now.
EX: uh...
ME: So, not much.

pppg

(disclaimer-Didn't read the whole thread)

I was in the same boat as you. I really didn't consider myself that depressed, just not the happy go lucky person I knew I should and could be. I went to a counselor where I knew my therapy would revolve around changes that I could make, as opposed to changes that medicine could make. I'm very happy that I went and I've learned a lot about myself and how to handle situations and feelings a lot better.

-edit- I also wanted to make the point that I personally didn't want any medication either. IMO in a lot of cases the symptoms are treated and not the cause. THAT is the biggest mistake in most mental health programs.

thespian86

The problem is the symptoms point to the cause. That's why they are called symptoms. And medicating is not the biggest mistake when it comes to mental health problems. I think what you were describing was a need for therapy for emotional problems, which is completely different from having a serious chemical imbalance like depression. If you were treated for depression without a med plan then I would think it wouldn't be serious enough to warrant one (although I'm not trying to judge what kind of state you were in). The thing is, either way Strange seems to have either a health problem, or atleast some sort of personal problem he can't work out on his own, so seeing someone would help, whether it be medical or just someone to talk to who knows what they are doing. But I don't think meds are the bad guy here, or the doctors who prescribe them, I think it's the attitude that they are that is the problem. That and people misdiagnosing themselves without consultation (ie: Yeah, I must be bi-polar because I have bad periods in my life). The thing is no one is as self aware as they would like to think and diagnosing yourself is dangerous. Even just saying "it's nothing" is a big risk, and lazy; all it takes is a 30 minute trip to the doctors once.

I'll get off my soap box but I'm pretty passionate about this topic.

__________________
EX: Whats new?
ME: I officially love coffee more then you now.
EX: uh...
ME: So, not much.

abaya

You can stay on your soap box, if you want... I'm quite passionate about people getting into therapy as well, so it's always good to see someone (especially a man) advocating therapy. I have never taken meds, but as I mentioned before, I have spent several years in therapy with a few different counselors. It revolutionized my approach to intimate relationships and family, as well as my own self-image.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

thespian86

I spent my whole youth telling my mom that I felt strange and unlike myself for weeks at a time, and she told me it was nothing. I spent all of high school burying myself in work and committees and everything social. In my grade twelve year I had a problem with one girl, rebounded with another which turned out badly, all the while dealing with student government, AP courses, and extreme situations. And all of a sudden I just crashed. My whole life has changed, some ways are negative (lost my direction in life), and other great things (met a bunch of amazing people and learned a lot about myself). I don't like seeing others preparing to crash. Therapy isn't just for "crazies", it's for people who need someone to talk to who know how to answer and how to help.

__________________
EX: Whats new?
ME: I officially love coffee more then you now.
EX: uh...
ME: So, not much.

Daniel_

I hated the idea of therapy as a sign of some lack of mental fortitude.

However, I've seen various forms of talking therapy help several people close to me and my prejudice has evaporated.

Not all doctors will immediately bung you on Prozac.

If you have seasonal issues, try Hypericum (St John's Wort) they sell it at Tesco for hardly any money, and it's tested in clinicals as about as effective as Prozac, but without the dificulty to give it up later that is reported by a minority of Prozac users.

__________________

╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

pppg

Sorry if I didn't make myself clear. What I believe is the biggest problem is not treating the root causes of the symptoms. I'm not saying that drugs should not be prescribed, as I am not a doctor. I personally went though multiple doctors that just said, "here take this for your anxiety". So I'd continue doing the things that (not known to me at the time) brought on the anxiety/ depression. Not until I began working on the root causes of the depression did I actually begin to make any progress.

I understand and agree with your points on the subject. Either way, it's always a good bet to get to a doctor and/ or see some specialists.

dksuddeth

SF, i've read most peoples responses on this thread and I say to you, with all sincerity, that they are full of shiat.

YOU determine if you could benefit from any therapy.
YOU determine if others are in a better position to tell you what you need.
YOU determine where your life and mental well being reside in any given state.

If you let others determine what you need and don't need, you've already given up control of your life.

I say this from experience and I believe I'm in a better position than most to say so.

I have dark moods. I'm in one right now.

My wife has been seriously ill for some time.
Our financial situation has steadily declined for years.
My wife just found out today that there is a greater than 50/50 chance she might not see her next birthday and she's only 38 years old. I'm busting my ass to keep working, keep the bills paid, and keep her medical coverage going. I deal with bill collecters and my landlord every single week and the pressure is intense to just make it day to day.
I may be a widow at 42. I may watch my wife die and be relatively helpless about it. I can't do anything more than what is physically possible to do the best I can.
I've taken pay cuts just to keep a job. I've cut extraneous crap out of my life, things I enjoyed, just to pay bills, and yes, I'm sometimes tired of doing so, but NOBODY is in any position to tell me I'm not capable of dealing with it without psychological help.

NOBODY controls me or my life. NOBODY can control your life unless you let them.

If your 'mood' or attitude is not all 'happy happy joy joy' for others, yet you still function day to day and deal with your daily shit, too bad for them.

YOU are in control of your life, until you let others tell you what you need.

If your SO is not happy with your attitude, maybe they need to be checking theirs, this is usually called projection. YOU do what YOU need to do, let others worry about themselves. It's when you find it hard to do the things you NEED to do, that you need to consider outside sources of help.

just my humble opinion anyway.

__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

thespian86

I'm not trying to be a dick about this but I'm sure I sound like one; I don't care really. The thing is, your "mood" is a reflection of your emotional state. If your "mood" is changing from what you would consider is normal, for a duration of time that seems unnatural, and there is no real external cause to said change, then you're more then likely hurting inside. The problem is, your "attitude" towards your "mood" is nonchalant and these people suffer in silence. That suffering is a period of "not being able to control THEIR lives". There are people who can you help you cope with these periods in a healthier way then hiding and shutting out the ones you love; it sounds like in Strange's case, his girlfriend is noticing this and attempting to remedy it (because those who are sick often don't seek help). If you are still struggling there is most likely the perfect med for you that will not change your "mood" or "attitude" or make your personality deviate from what it would normally be. The reason this happens isn't because he cut out buying a CD a week, or because he didn't renew his golf membership and is bummed about it; it's actually a chemical imbalance in your head. And because this is chemical, YOU cannot control YOUR life or YOUR emotions or YOUR thoughts or YOUR feelings or YOUR sexual desire, I think YOU get the point, during these periods of instability.

It was people like you that made it hard for me to recover. People who look at someone who can't control their actions or emotions to the extent they wish they could, and say "Grow up" or "I'm sad too" or "You don't look sick to me". It's like walking up to a man recovering from a broken leg and beating him with a stick until it fractures again. I'm not a doctor but I've gone through this, something tells me you haven't, and what Strange is describing sounds A LOT like something I went through. I'm not saying he is sick, he could be perfectly fine, but I'm hoping people who are less brave and less vocal then Strange Famous is, will read this and realize a) they aren't alone, and b) they can get help. No one needs someone calling that process bullshit. Take it elsewhere please.

And I meant to thank you Strange, I think this is a really important conversation that needs to be had in a public forum. I appreciate it. And DK I'm sorry to hear about your wife and I really hope things turn around. But comparing and illness to a hard time, albeit a very difficult and horrible one, is impossible; its simply not the same. Again, I hope everything works out.

__________________
EX: Whats new?
ME: I officially love coffee more then you now.
EX: uh...
ME: So, not much.

abaya

DK, very sorry to hear about your wife--though I suppose you don't want anyone's sympathy. But, I hope the worst-case scenario doesn't happen, for yours and her sake. Well, I believe that's why he posted here in the first place, isn't it? If he didn't want input from any of us, then he didn't need to post here. It's not like random internet strangers have been going around telling Strange, "Hey man, you need to see a doctor about your depression!"... no, we waited for him to post something about it first, and then we gave our opinions. Something wrong with that?

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

dksuddeth

no, there is nothing wrong with that.

I initially posted in anger, I should not have done that.

I'm tired of people telling me that I should see someone to work out my issues. talking to someone isn't going to make my wife healthier. it's not going to pay my utilities or rent. Seeing a therapist isn't going to change my attitude or mood about things.

That's not to say that it doesn't work for everyone though. People have bad days, bad months, maybe even bad years. It doesn't mean that something is wrong with them. Deciding something is 'wrong' should lie in the hands of that individual and not someone else.

Now, if that individual then determines for themselves that they need help, by all means I support that person in getting some help. Punkfan, I would not have told you to 'grow up' if you determined for yourself that you needed help.

__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

Redlemon

As I was reading dksuddeth's first response, I couldn't help but hear...
Which is not to take sides. Can a person who needs help tell that they need help? I don't know, I haven't been there.

DK, best of luck.

__________________
I can't read your signature. Sorry.

roachboy

first i'm really sorry to read about what you and your wife are going through dk. i wish it were otherwise.


i agree with the direction dk's posts were going in--i said as much very early in the thread--not for the same reasons--but nonetheless. i don't think it is other than presumptuous for us, who are elements of a messageboard community, to make psychological diagnoses of other based not on who or how they are but on what and the way in which they write. this because what and how folk write are mediated by the patterns of their usage of the board, when they choose to write for example. and as much as we collectively operate as if this was a 3-d community, fact is that it is at best **like** as 3-d community, but it is **like** one because of the way in which we write within it. so you can't erase the fact of it being written and you can't by extension erase that this writing fits into larger patterns that shape it. and you can't erase the fact that these names we work with are to one extent or another personae--self-conscious or not, it's still the case--personae or masks. whether the sentences that you generate through that persona are understood as you make them to refer directly to your 3-d self or not, the fact remains that these sentences are translations and not direct mappings of states of mind. and these states of mind acquire a certain momentum as written maps--know what i mean? when roachboy "speaks" it is often the case that what he says comes from the action of making him speak, of filling a box with sentences--this is much more frequently the case than the contrary, a situation in which i--the 3-d person--know beforehand exactly what i am going to say and simply transcribe it.

so the information you are working with is heavily mediated, like it or not.

and it may be the case that writing is a way of exploring rather than reproducing an affective state.
and it may also be that writing is an action that is in itself therapeutic in that it forces a distance into what otherwise might seem immediate.

and you can't. no matter what you'd prefer to believe, simply reach around a sequence of sentences and *know* what's going on with the 3-d person who made them. not even in the context of this post, which i am writing as i am thinking about a proposal for a residency--this proposal fills up the space between clauses and i am writing this in part in order to allow that other project to stretch out a bit in my mind before i start writing it out and trying to figure out a budget on that basis. stuff like this happens all the time.

therapy in the sense of a talking cure is a relatively benign intervention and IF you are motivated to play the game of therapy it can be helpful--but you have to be motivated to play it--therapists are not always particularly smart, for example, and it is often the case that if you know about how various schools of therapy operate, you know what the moves are going to be before they happen--so it's VERY easy to short circuit the entire ritual (because that is what therapy is, more than anything else--a ritual).

it comes down to sf's understanding of what's going on with him really, his evaluation of the amount of room that takes up in his life, of whether that life which includes these dark periods is functional for him--not for any of us---and whether, following from that, it makes sense to participate in the rites of therapy in order to bring about a kind of change in that overall arrangement.

we can advise, but it's nothing more than that.
personally, i think snowy's position is good and is about as far as any of us should actually be willing to go.

psychotropics are another matter. i am personally opposed to them--ibut i understand that they can have a place--but that is REALLY not up to anyone but sf and the people who he might interact with in a therapeutic context--and should be only an option if the level of functionality is REALLY disrupted so that a chemical intervention can function to stabilize the situation--and that only so other forms of therapy can get started.

and there should be help available for stopping. but that's another rant.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

mixedmedia

I'm not going to make any recommendations here, everyone has pretty much said all there is to be said. As someone who has lived with someone for a protracted period of time (10+ years) with an untreated clinical mood disorder, I will only say one thing:

Don't rely on your self-perception of the possible problem. If you are depressed or suffering from any other mood disorder, you are not able to see yourself and your actions objectively. This is true of everyone to an extent, right? But from my experience and what I've read, this is exponentially true of people with mood disorders. What you find to be manageable and acceptable can actually be quite debilitating without your realizing it.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Jinn

DK:

I nearly made a post like yours, in much the same tone, with the same conclusions. I believe the same thing about our "moods"; they are our responsibility, and we're ultimately the only ones in charge of how we feel, how we react, and what affects us.

That said, f I'm guilty of one egregious error, it is my penchant for assuming that everyone is like me.

I habitually assume that because something is the right solution for me it is the right solution for others. While I think self-control of our own moods is an excellent aspiration, and I wish that everyone were capable of it, some people are not. Some people need a friend to talk to, some people need a therapist to talk to. So while I personally don't see value in therapy, I also realize that not everyone has been trained as I have to control their moods. Even I, the humbly declared God of my own moods, could have such catastrophic things happen (death of multiple family members, loss of limbs, etc) that I would need professional assistance. It's naive to think that there isn't a set of circumstances that could put you in dire need for psychological intervention, no matter how "in control" you feel.

It is an EXCELLENT aspiration to move towards controlling your own self and moods without the assistance of others, or the assistance of drugs. At the very least, it's cheaper. But if you find yourself unable to cope to the point that you need assistance, don't hesitate to fork over the cash and find a good therapist. There are still enough good ones out there who will work to wean you of their help, and it's a good investment.

EDIT: It's also worth noting that I've made terribly declarative posts like yours in the past on TFP (check my thread history), and it's really only because of people like MM, Abaya and jewels that I've come to accept that my solution isn't the right solution for everyone, no matter what the discussion. People are just way too diverse to develop a catch-all solution.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

abaya

JinnKai, you've come a long way since those posts way back when. Nice job on this one... I guess I'm biased towards these conclusions myself, but hey, it doesn't hurt anyone to at least give people the space/grace they *might* need to get some help. Pressuring people to "suck it up and deal" might work for some, but not for others... with dire consequences. Why not err on the side of human empathy? We all think we are capable of withstanding immense amounts of psychological stress... which is true, in some cases. But not for all. There is just not much to be lost (other than perhaps ego--which we could all use a little reduction of, at times) from simply trying therapy in these situations.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

mixedmedia

Well, it certainly isn't true that we are always in charge of our moods. (No one is, My Lord. ) And sometimes this is exceptionally true due to simple imbalances in brain chemistry. And I'm not a believer that these imbalances should always lead to medical treatment, but it's a simple biological fact. The brain, as complex as it is, is just another organ, after all. Very often, just changes in diet, exercise and environment can help to improve them (as snowy suggested).

It should also be noted that there is a lot of evidence that mood disorders can also be caused by allergies.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce