raeanna74

I want to do cross country running. I've looked up info online. I never took Cross Country in highschool. I have no real knowledge about how to do it without hurting myself. I've been walking a minimum of 3 miles a day as fast as I can do it without breaking into a run. So I started running for possible 1 to 1 1/2 miles. Within 3 days I started getting painful shin splints. I have the most comfortable shoes I can find with my Dr's recommended arch supports. I've been doing this route daily for at least a month. It's mostly level ground with a few very gradual small hills. It's paved about 3/4's of the way with blacktop. I have the option of running on gravel otherwise but it's pretty packed down and doesn't seem to have any more give than the blacktop. For about 1/4 of the route I have a dock/boardwalk that I walk. I started running only on that section and either because it's a short enough distance or because of what I'm running ON, I haven't had problems yet.

Any ideas, suggestions, tips, warnings, or how-to's to a complete amatuer cross country runner? and most of all, How do I stop getting the shin splints?

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amonkie

Are you taking any rest days?

Did you jump right into the 1-1.5 miles from the walking, or ease right into it?

I've heard that one of the biggest reasons for shin splints is overuse without gradual increase in muscle use/strength.

I've been walking an average of 30 miles/wk for the last month, and just started to incorporate running this week. I walk for a block, run for a block, etc. for the first and last 10 minutes, I do a warm up and cool down walk a few stretches at the beginning but probably 10 minutes of stretching at the end.

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Slims

Ok, here is my advice as someone who ALWAYS has shin splints.

It is a complicated problem and there are hundreds of fixes which work for some people. Don't expect a miracle cure, though one may be out there for you to find.

Your problem will likely lessen as you get in better shape.

If you do toe raises you will develop the muscle on the outside of your calf which may help (it does for me).

Stretching before I run usually makes it hurt more, but stretching afterwards usually helps.

Changing shoes helps, try a pair of regular running shoes with no orthotics...it helps for me. I have a naturally messed up gate as my toes point out. If I wear motion control shoes in order to prevent over pronation I end up with a bunch of issues. A neutral shoe which allows me to run with my natural (though goofy) stride is best for me. You won't know what is best for you until you try a few. Different brands matter also. I have had a lot of relief by wearing Nike, New Balance and Pearl Izumi, don't know why.

Take some Aleve/Naproxen at night, it will help the swelling go down in your legs. If you need to you can take some more in the morning before you run. It helps a lot and lasts longer than advil.

Ice after a run helps, but I never have the patience for it.

If you are really in pain (like you want to lay down and cry pain) try sleeping with your legs elevated above your heart to further help reduce swelling. It will help but isn't typically worth it unless you have a serious problem.

I don't know whether this is good medical advice, but I have always pushed through the pain and never had anything happen except for more pain. I will run on shin splints all day long if I need to in order to accomplish my goals. I have had them so bad you couldn't touch the inside of my shin-bone, but my legs still worked just fine and after a (painful) first mile or so they would go numb and I could run pain-free.

Although I have yet to find the magic cure for me as I still have shin splints, I manage them better now.

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ratbastid

Yes! I just started running myself, training for a half-marathon in December. I did eight miles this week (and literally until six weeks ago I hadn't run more than three steps since High School).

I discovered this thing called ChiRunning. It was developed by a guy named Danny Dreyer, who is a tai chi master and an ultramarathoner. It involves bringing tai chi concepts to running, and using gravity to pull you forward. I'm finding it challenging to learn, but I can knock down the miles like anything.

Dreyer says that the cause of most running injury is heel-striking impact. He wants you to land mid-foot. Not the ball of the foot either, unless you're sprinting. He wants you landing on the soft middle section of your foot, and landing it directly underneath an aligned column of foot-knee-hip-shoulder-head, that's all leaning slightly forward. Then your stride goes out behind you.

I'm finding this to be VERY gentle and soft-footed. There's none of the bang-bang-bang-bang that I normally associate with running, and recovering from even my weekly "long" run is fairly painless and easy. I say "long" in quotes because this week it was only three miles.

Spiritsoar

I'm up way later than I should be, but I have throw in a quick note here. This is not good medical advice, as several medical conditions can come under the broad term "shin splint." Pushing through the pain a little can be ok, but if it persists, you need to find a way to reduce the problem. If the problem happens to be stress fractures, pushing through the pain can cause significant injury.

Like I said, I'm just throwing this out there on my way to bed. Much good advice has been provided above, but if people want more, toss a reply this way, and I'll post more tomorrow.

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raeanna74

Thanks for the wealth of info already.

amonkie - I've not taken any planned rest days. Last week we had a very busy day and ended up skipping my walk. A week before that I was having a number of days that I felt under the weather with nausea and sinus congestion. I didn't do the walks for 2 days then. Otherwise I've not taken days off.
I moved into the 1 1/2 miles by starting out and walking briskly until I felt loose enough to run. I would break into a run, run until my legs started to feel the strain, push just a little further, then slow to a fast walk again. I did that several times throughout the whole 3 mile walk. Eventually I moved into running from about 1/4 of the way unto my walk and then walking the last 1/4 of the distance.
I have done hardly any stretching at the end though I try not to just come home and plop down on my butt. 10 minutes of stretching might definately help. I will try that.

Slims- I read about the toe raises in another website and you've confirmed it. I believe that could be some help.
I will also have to try different shoes or subtracting the orthotics. I have been wearing K-Swiss but I have some reeboks. I have not worn the reeboks though because it seems like they aggravated my heal. About 5 years ago I broke a chip off the inside of my left heal. That's what my orthotics have helped with, I'm not landing ON that chip and causing it to irritate.
Also I hadn't thought of using the Aleve BEFORE I ran. I like that idea. Prevent some of the inflamation at least maybe.

Ratbastid - I like the idea of landing mid-foot. I've tried to run fairly levelly as I tore some ligaments in my right ankle about 6 months ago and I'm anxious about doing it again. I will have to look into that Chi Running thing. It sounds great. It's encouraging to hear that you're not the only one not running miles and miles every day. I've seen several people on my walks every day and I see them running the entire route. It makes me feel like a wimp when a much older man passes me up regularly. lol

Spiritsoar - The more advice the better. Let me have it!

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"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

MiSo

everywhere on the net i've read so far says prevention is better than looking for a cure. So here's another vote for getting the right shoe. it makes a HUGE diffenrence. i run in a pair of saucony omni 8's and they're awesome.
i've run into shin splints also and running on pavement irritates my shins a lot. i suggest hitting up the local high school or college and run on the track. i recently ran two miles on the track and felt fine. i ran about a half mile on pavement the next day and i could already feel my shins starting to hurt.
in my search for any help with shin splints, i've also ran into a few websites that suggest using compression sleeves. I bought a pair from zensah.com for about $40. i've been using them for about a month and a lot of friends are asking me if they're working. all i can say is after a month, i still feel pain when running on hard surfaces, but they're really comfortable and i like the way they feel when i have them on. i guess its a peace of mind thing but i like to have them on when working out/daily activities.

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ratbastid

It's pretty awesome.

The guy points out, if you're striking with your heels, you're putting the brakes on with every step. The shock of that is what causes most of the pain and injury people associate with running.

I should say: I'm not GOOD at this yet. But I'm getting better every run.

dlish

as someone who's still an avid runner and suffers from shin splints his whole life, i think i could add to some of the info here

the short of it is, if you have shin splints, its got something to do with your biomechanics and/or genetics.

for me its biomechanics. ive had shin splints since i was 12-13, and they'd flare up any time i increased intensity and/or distance. i over pronate quite a lot, but have had those corrected with orthotics, but my shins still feel like they are on fire at the start and after every run.

ive been doing a lot of reading, and have been experimenting with different ways. try stretching to loosen up the calf muscles before and after running. ive also been popping anti flams (brufen 100). im yet to ice it, but ice reduces the inflammation and swelling.

my next experimentation will be with strapping of the feet to see if they improve.

one thing i do want to point out, is if you have never run before, then you need to take it easy on the number of days you run. you NEED those rest days. so if you are running everyday, then instead of doing say 3 miles a day, do 6 miles every second or third day. that way you'll have a dayy off which would help you recover better.

you also need to increase your mileage gradually..by no more than 10% a week until you get to your desired distances.

i have the Chi Running book and its principles are sound by the oof it..its on my list of books pending to be read. with regards to foot strike, for your pace you want your foot strike under your body thus eliminating running on your toes or heels.


first and foremost , the best advice would be to see a podiatrist who would then look at what else needs attention.

i have a few websites that i can reccomend if you are interested

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raeanna74

dlish - I have been walking primarily and am working into the running slowly. On days where my shin splits have bothered me then I just walk the next day. Do you think switching to walking the 3 miles instead of running is enough of a 'Break' from the running? I've been covering the 3 miles every day, just varying the intensity or whether I'm walking or running. It seems to break up the monotony of it too.
Also, give me all the info you've got. I appreciate it. You can pm me the websites or include them on this thread.

I've heard about running barefoot shorter distances so that you become more aware of problems in your form. What does everyone here think of that? Have you tried it?

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"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

Rekna

I used to play ultimate once a week. After a few months of the summer I would be limping everywhere I went because of horrible shin splits (sever pronation in my step). I finally went into the doctor and tried out all kinds of things including orthotics, toe raises, icing, etc. I found taping up my shins nice and tight prior to working out helped relieve the strain on the shins but in the end my doctor told me that the only way to stop the shin splints was to stop playing....

KirStang

I don't know about competitive sprinting sports, but for joggers/marathoners, running with small steps have helped my shin splints improve a lot. What the basic method is, is counting right steps within a 30 second time frame. Ideally, you want to have 45 right foot heal strikes per 30 seconds (meaning 180 steps per minute).

The small steps greatly reduce impact, and thereby, help in preventing injury.

Second, your body is like a machine. Machines run well when aligned properly. I have severe flat foot, so I tend to pronate (? not sure...eitherway my natural gait bends inwards). Running with an unstable foot is like driving a car with a loose wheel--the instability will eventually cause problems. My former PT taught me to practice balancing with one foot while the other foot raises up and down (15 reps/foot). This promotes stability in the ankle region.

Finally, stretches and squats. You want your lower body to be well developed and biomechanically aligned and strong.

raeanna74

Rekna - Did your Dr say why taping your legs helped?

KirStand - That balancing/foot raising exercise is very familiar. This spring when I torn some ligaments in my ankle, my PT had me doing that to train my other muscles to compensate.

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"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

dlish

raeanna, as i mentioned earlier, you NEED a day rest at least. preferably two in a row. if i have a hard run, or i play touch rugby which involves plenty of printing, quick starts and plety of sudden stops, i guarantee that ill be sore for a day or two. a minimum of a days rest is necessary, preferably two. a two day rest and i'm good to go.

what you need to do is work out WHY you are getting this pain. theres always an underlying reason for it, and usually a health professional like a physio or podiatrist would be able to tell you your problem and lead you into the right direction. but usually its pronation/biomechanical issue.

as for websites, there are plenty of websites out there, but the best most comprehensive and to the point website ive found on shin splints is this one

Shin Splints


i personally wouldnt recommend running barefoot. sure, the old days of the neanderthal people would run around barefoot, but people back then lived much shorter lifespans . why run barefoot and run the risk of further injuries if you are already getting problems. lets face it, you aint Zola Budd, so just drop the barefoot thing you got going there. it would bring more pain than good.

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ratbastid

The one thing I've heard unreservedly good about barefoot running is that it definitely promotes good form. Barefoot running pretty much forces a midfoot strike (because anything else is literally too painful). So I'm hearing about people running a lap on a track barefoot, and then shoeing up for their regular run.

I overpronate too, so any kind of real distance without arch support is a bad idea.

Rekna

Yes, shin splints occur when the tendons/muscles/ligaments on the shin begins tearing away from the bone. This tends to happen when your front toes slap the ground (i have a bad running form). Taping helps prevent these tendons/ligaments/muscles from tearing away from the bone.

dlish

partly true. thats not always the case, but yes that is one form of it

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Slims

...For me it's the opposite, I have shin splints largely because I am a heel striker and simply batter the shit out of my shins. When I do sprint workouts and force myself into a fore-foot stride I have very few shin problems (though I get other, different ones due to my biomechanical issues).

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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence

highthief

I think there is something to it. I'm not willing to seriously run barefoot, but a friend has recently begun doing so and it has prompted me to do a couple of things differently as I thought about the issues involved.

One is I dumped my heavily cushioned runners and switched to a much lighter shoe which has me running a bit more naturally and efficiently (striking more with the mid and fore foot than heel) and which seems to make my feet and ankles stronger.

Additionally, I've been doing some leg exercises (squats and balancing exercises) barefoot to improve balance and feel.

So far, so good!

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Si vis pacem parabellum.

raeanna74

Well, so far so good. I've been trying to land mid-foot rather than on the heel and stretcing more after running. That seems to have helped. Then I switched to a different shoe and no difference after a day. Then I tossed the arch supports. Bad news. I've been limping since I got out of bed this morning from my plantar fascitis. I have had no issues with it for at least a year but obviously my arch supports were a critical part of that. So I will be putting them back in.

Thanks for the advice everyone.

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"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

The_Jazz

Maybe I missed where this was addressed before (it's possible - I've followed the thread but haven't contributed because there was so much good advice being given), but there's a significant percentage of shinsplit cases that are caused purely by muscle strength, and that may be what's going on with you, raeanna.

What happens in these cases is that muscles that haven't had to work as hard before - usually because they're more useful stabalizing a running leg than a walking leg - start to work harder. Muscles that have to work more start to get more efficient, and that means that they get stronger (among other things). A stronger muscle is a shorter, thicker muscle (think of a bodybuilder's bicep versus, well, mine). So as that muscle starts to shorten and thicken, it starts to pull on the connective tissue that holds it in place in the greater assembly that is your leg. That connective tissue doesn't have as much play in it as a muscle (it's not really intended to move after all), so it has to stretch. And in a lot of cases, that stretching causes the pain that is shinsplints. This is actually not an uncommon occurrence in athletes, although it moves around the body and manifests in different ways - the same version of this "symptom" of your new effort in your feet is called plantars facitis, and having had both that and shinsplits, I'll take the shinsplints every time.

Given what you've described (hurts on running days, not on walking days), I suspect that this is what's going on. But, as others have said, there are lots of different causes of shinsplits, and just because I suspect that this is the case doesn't make it so. But, if I were coaching you, this would be my advice:

Go to a running store to get your stride evaluated (I realize that this may be a geographical impossibility for you). If that's not possible, find a mail order company that specializes in running shoes (I've got the names of 2 or 3 at my desk, so just let me know if you need them) and describe in as much detail as possible what's going on and what you need. Most of those hire avid runners for their customer service and you might get a few other tips while you're at it. Since you wear orthodics, make sure that you let them know. If you're going to a store, take them with you. By the way, Foot Locker is to running store as I am to Heavyweight Champion of the World.

Don't worry about your stride at this point or footstrike or any of that. Your body is very much in the development stage and is going to gravitate to what's most efficient for it. It's notoriously difficult to change footstrike permanently (although it can be done), so I'd encourage you to stop worrying about it.

Your usual course sounds pretty good, but it's not really cross country. Cross country is going to be either grass or dirt. Those are the best possible surfaces you can run on, especially with your shin pain. Seek those out if you can. If those aren't available, the next best on is gravel (even if it seems packed down it has significantly more give than asphalt). Honestly, your boat ramp/dock seems like a bad place to run because it's going to be concrete (the worst possible surface to run on, with the exception of volcanic rock) for part of it. If it were me, I'd find a way around it on grass, but there may be redeeming factors that work for you (and scenery is a perfectly good redeeming factor).

This is just another possibility to think about. All the good stretching/icing advice seems to have already been given by others, which is great. The one thing that I didn't see mentioned was ibuprofin. Shinsplits, regardless of the cause, are the result of an irritation/inflamation. Ibuprofin is an anti-inflamatory drug. Take the recommended dose (depending on what the bottle says) about 45 minutes to an hour before your run and see if that helps. You may need to follow up with another dose a few hours after your run, but the idea is to keep the inflamation down as much as possible.

I hope this helps. If you need clarification or anything else, just ask. That goes for anyone.

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Rekna

I also strike with my heal but after my heal hits the toes roll forward and slap the ground.

highthief

Learn to love the ice bath. Fill that tub up with cold water and stand in it for as long as you can stand after a run.

IMO, shin splints (and lower leg injuries in general) are more common with beginning and intermediate runners. I got mild shin pain in my first 18 months or so of running regularly - which ice baths helped cure - but I never get them these days. My knee on the other hand ...

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Push-Pull

This is the exact results I had when I just started getting some distance (4+ miles every other day) and had shin splints. Heel striking just destroyed my shins, and once I learned to mid foot/fore foot strike, I was happy as a runner should be.

I agree. After having foot pain standing for long periods in my work-issued boots, I did some research and then went out and bought some vibram fivefingers. I LOVE THESE "SHOES"!!! I now spend entire weekends in them, gone on 6 mile cross country hikes and just recently started running in them. I'm up to 9 miles/week with nothing more than normal "working muscles that haven't worked much" pain and am aiming for 24 miles/week. Don't get me wrong, there is a transition period with these. The key is to start VERY slowly, and build up all the foot muscles that regular shoes have atrophied. Do a Google for barefoot walking/running and you will find a plethora of information about gait, stride, natural alignment and all that. But the bottom line is that my foot pain has nearly completely vanished, and I know/feel my feet are MUCH stronger now.

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raeanna74

Thanks for all this input. I think it will help me in future issues.

The_Jazz - The boat ramp/dock that you were referring to is not what you are thinking. for 1/3 of my route it is a path through a marsh on the edge of the lake built out of wood supports and wood decking. I thought it would be a better place for me to do my running as the wood feels like it has more give than anything else.

I have been working on a midfoot strike. I'm back to my old shoes with the supports and I'm managing about a mile worth of running for my 3 mile route, the remainder being walking. I've not had shin splints in about 2 weeks. I have taken a day off here and there, I've taken Aleve before I go for my walk. I haven't iced but I intend to if I have any future problems. When I pass through the park (1/3 of my route) I've deviated from the paved path and gone across the grass which feels better. Also I've run across the beach near the campground with is very sandy and definately much more give - I'd like to think it gives me a little more of a challenge. It seems like the combination of Aleve, some softer surface and the midfoot strike OR one of those alone has helped me endure less discomfort from my broken heel - Nearly no discomfort actually - Whereas before I was enduring some discomfort from that. Here as well as the rest of the reading I've done on the internet has been interesting, informative, and helpful. I think that hearing about other's discomfort from running has helped me not feel as frustrated about pain or discomfort from running. For some reason I had this picture in my head of the diehard runners not feeling that discomfort or that it's easy for them. I guess it's not THAT easy. I still haven't figured out that drive. Most days it's a push for me to force myself to go, though once I'm out there I do enjoy it - the quiet time, the outdoors, whatever. Which leads me to another question for you...

What gets you out to run? What motivates you? - Is it just the get into shape desire or something more immediate? The adrenaline rush from pushing yourself? or something more?

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"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

The_Jazz

Back when I was a real runner, it was the fear that my competition had already put in their miles and was in better shape than me. But my mindset wasn't the norm for most runners.

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"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

ratbastid

I'll tell you, the main muscle I'm developing in my half-marathon training is the muscle of honoring my promises to myself. I'm not terrible at keeping promises I make others, but this running thing is a promise I made myself, which is a category of thing that I regularly fail at.

I'm realizing that it's not my body or anything about me physically that has me go out there and run. It's ONLY a matter of whether I'm going to do what I said or not. And my thoughts about that are entirely beside the point.

Yesterday my plan called for three miles. All morning I thought, "That's ridiculous. I'm not going to run three miles today. Forget it. Maybe I'll do two." And then I put my shoes on and went out and ran three miles. Not because I thought it was a good idea, or because I felt like it, or even because I "should". I did it because I said I would. And when I ran past the intersection where I'd turn to take my two mile path, I thought hard about how much I was going to run, and all my thoughts were about how I felt, how tired I was, how I should really just run two miles. And then I kept going on my three mile track, because I said I would.

It's a little weird to call this "motivation" exactly. It's not like I pump myself up for anything. I'm not necessarily real pumped up at all. I'm just doing what I promised myself I'd do.

raeanna74

Yeah, I don't have a problem with doing the whole route. When I was sick with a cold I still did the route but I just didn't run the whole way. Once I get out there it's not hard to want to do the whole distance. It's the getting out there that's hard. I get up and have lots that I want to do around the house and so I put off when I'm going to go until it's suppertime and I give up on making an attempt. Or I say, 'well, I'll just go tomarrow and the rest of the week.'

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"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

apeman

I've been running for a while, mostly on hills and have once or twice managed 20K / 12 miles, and offer this in the hope that it makes sense and may be useful...

I've only ever had very mild discomfort in my shins, which I've assumed was the beginning of shin splints and so taken action quickly, which is usually one of:
1) take a week off, get back into running with short distances
2) take some ibuprofen (anti-inflammatories) for a week
3) warm down and stretch after run
4) in the shower, do a few hot/cold cycles on your shins after a run

Starting is indeed one of the harder parts for me. Like jumping into cold water, best to just do it, it'll be lovely once you're in!

The psychological challenge is interesting - the point where you want to stop and the point where you *have* to stop and so on. Pacing yourself right is the most important thing. And I either want to go further than last time, or like ratbastid, sometimes feel like cutting a bit off, which is when you find out what you're made of!

To push myself when I'm feeling like stopping, I usually start a countdown from 100 and if I get to 0 I'm allowed to stop, except then I start another countdown unless I'm absolutely done, when I'll walk for a count of 30 or whatever.

I think the best thing is the feeling you get when you're cruising along and it's all going good. Also being on top of a hill and thinking "I just ran up here". Also impressing girls (in my mind).

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ratbastid

That's pretty good, maybe I'll steal that.

I've been looking down the path and picking something maybe a tenth of a mile ahead, and promising myself I'll run at least to there. Then when I get there, I look and see how I feel. Most of the time by the time I get to my marker, I've relaxed into the run and whatever made me think I needed to stop is gone, and I keep running.

My last couple days, I've noticed a pattern where my first mile is all blue sky and clean air, my second mile is a brutal uphill slog (even going downhill), and then right at the beginning of mile three I get rocket boots and just glide the rest of the way. Fun!

ChrisJericho

I think that is true and a lot of people sort of dance around that issue.

I have always done sports that involved running since I was age 5 or so like soccer or baseball, and I began cross country in high school. I never had anything that remotely resembled 'shin splints' and it's not like I'm a great athlete or anything. I even know people who are in far better shape than me who get shin splints, but to this day I still don't understand what they are going through.

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clavus

I used to run cross country. Here's what I did. A few times a day, sit down in a chair, put your leg out, and do the alphabet with your toes. Draw the letters in the air/ Now do it for the other leg.

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apeman

I have a book here called "Run for Life - the real woman's guide to running" (a friend left it for me). I would be happy to post (mail?) it to you if you donate the postage to TFP (since I'm not a woman I don't really know what to do with it...)

She basically offers RICE (Rest, Ice, Compression, Elevation), followed by anti-inflammatory drugs, arnica, and going to see an expert.

My friend had bad shin splints and he got given a sort of stretchy rubber sheet and had to do something like drawing the alphabet with his toes, while holding the rubber sheet over his feet. Meh.

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pain is inevitable but misery is optional - stick a geranium in your hat and be happy