That being said, raiding in WoW requires knowledge of the maps and how to use the maps and knowledge of the boss, plus the fact of needing twitch reactions in case something goes wrogn. Saying that one video game is more skillful than another is just not right, imo. They may take a bit of different skill (and teamwork), but it still takes skill. That was my point.

WoW is a game of skill like bowling is about exercise.

This does not mean it isn't addictive and fun as hell, but you cannot dodge a fireball once it has been cast, nor can you effectively gain six pack abs by throwing a 10 pound ball once every 7 minutes.

I can say pvp is more then just luck, otherwise I would have more competition in 2300+ in 5s for arena.

There is skill in WoW, but its design is such that equipment is more important than skill. All things being equal skill wins, but things in a game like WoW are rarely equal.

There is skill in raiding as well, but its more the raid leaders being able to herd cats.

I used to really enjoy in WoW playing my druid when things went bad since I could 'save the day' by taking over for the tank or the healer or whatnot, and my skill is what mattered there, but I couldn't devote days of my life chasing purple bits while being bored out of my mind.

To me, the skill is outperforming my opponent, and since mobs are dumb its PVP oriented. There is greater skill there, in my opinion as almost all PVPers are good at PvE but most PvErs are not good at PvP. They dont' do well with the random variable of human vrs human.

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/259...rftwvr9.th.jpg

twinks are fun

See, everyone says that, but I recently respecc'ed my priest to Shadow and I have horrible gear and I out dps people in my guild that are in T5. I guess it could be that they just suck but I doubt it because we have been progressing really well. I know that gear plays a big part, but skill can make up for poor gear.

Similarly, I just hit 70 last weekend and have terrible gear compared to other 70s...yet in BGs I still place in the top five on damage. I die a little more often than those with better gear, but I can still kick ass.

I should be getting my first purple tomorrow, though. :D

They either suck or are just slacking. When my RL friend's guild had MC on farm way back when he would literally AF someone in the raid, alt tab and watch porn or do something else. This game is all about gear > talents > skill. 2v2/3v3 arena is all about the class combos, 5v5 is the only arena that takes skill. I agree that skill can make up for gear, but majority of the time gear trumps everything else.

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/8...ftw2qd3.th.jpg

My personal best for WSG. LVL 39 twink hunter. Sykes

I hate Hunters (and Warlocks) so so much on my 70 Priest. What spec is your twink, BM or MM?

MM/Survival.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...Hollow&n=Sykes

Do you actually go for the objective of wsg or do you just stand in the middle and farm kills? :p

To me, there's seems to be two parts to skill; knowledge based, and reflex based. If knowing a FPS map is skill then so is knowing the proper talent spec, knowing what equipment to use, knowing the dungeon and boss layout, and knowing how other classes work in pvp.

I don't like it anymore than you (I hate equipment grind fests) but it seems to me people just use "skill" as a rant for people who have more time to play than them.

Skill isn't the most important variable in PVP that's why I don't really enjoy it. Gear, Group, then skill is what determines the outcome in Sub-2000 rated teams. You do see skill at higher ratings when groups are well planned and gear is maxed. Casual PVP is much harder than Casual PVE. Casual PVEers aren't thrown into impossible to win matches, A PVEer dosn't get tossed into an Illidan encounter his first day after hitting 70, yet my first arena team's match was vs a Disp Priest and SLSL Lock. Priest had 11k health, Lock had 13k health, Both have 460+ resilience. There was no way My hunter/rogue team could beat them yet went up against them 4 times that night.

That's part of my point. That gear is a skill equivalent. To get it they had to have "skill" of the dungeons, bosses, teamwork and time investment. Even though I don't like it for games, time investment is part of getting skilled at anything.

As far as your other complaint, that's just bad organization on Blizzard's part. They shouldn't be facing the equivalent of a pro team with an ameteur team.

Back when I played my priest had 14,000 health with fortitude as disc. Like 300 resilience. I played with a warlock one day because I was bored. We won 10 matches in a row and went up 200 points in an hour. We never even came close to dying. It was retardedly easy. DoT, deathcoil, watch in glee as no healer can even keep up with the DoTs, much less the other shit that warlocks do to screw up casters. It felt quite literally like cheating.

To be honest with parallel gear, you would be hard pressed to beat them. Your only chance would be if you could burn down that priest asap.



I have toyed and played with most classes, and playing a lock for pvp is one of the harder ones (to play perfectly). I can not count the number of locks who do not know how to play their class right. It is easy to say dot, deathcoil, fear, but you really have to play your class right.

As far as gear in pvp that is definitely important. If you are starting at scratch, and have no gear, you need about 234k honor to get all of season 1 and vindicator gear (including season 2 ring). And that is not counting the new arena gear.

What most people do not realize is that you have to really not know only your class but all other classes, in order to be a top pvp'er. And the real challenge is not pre-2k arena rating but when you are pushing to remain as the #1 team. My 5's team is tied for 14/15th spot when compared to all servers, (#1 on mine, and Cenarius is one of the more competitive pvp servers outside of eu ones), and each game you know you have to be perfect and that you are playing a kickass team geared as well as you.

As a former Grand Marshal i'd have to agree that you absolutely do have to know not only what you can do as your class and with your own skill but what other classes can and can not to. Is that skill? I dunno.. It is something that you have to learn and practice for and i wold guess that would put it in the skill section.
PVP does take skill, you have to know what to do and when to do it or you'll get rocked every time. As a mage (like i play) you have to know when that blink should be used or saved or when that escape artist should be used.. should i sheep this guy or that.. will the cast time on a fireball fuck me over in this situation where they can counterspell or silence me or should i use arcane missiles. This is all stuff that involves accumulated knowledge and therefore skill.

Played my first 5v5 arenas tonight. 2-1! Not bad at all for my first try, I'd say. I was quite pleased. Hopefully next week is just as successful!

But if you see your opponent in blues, you rely on your gear to get you through and you just nuke.

Unless you're a warlock in blues, then you can own people in epics :)

Honestly it depends. Depending on the class the guy in blues may still have a pretty good chance to take you out if they know what they're doing and/or they catch you off guard. In pvp sometimes a couple seconds is all you need to take someone out or buy enough time for that next groupof dead people to res in and fight the enemy players back.Its not always about killing.

omg..

so i did it..

I reactivated my acc.. 2 years later..

kinda upset that all my t1 and t2 are useless now.

so im rerolling. ='(

Experience and knowledge of class can help to a large degree gear difference. But of course if you have 0 resilience in blues you probably will get dusted.

Have you guys read the first page of this thread lately? It's hillarious!

Gems like:

"BTW, 1 Gold is going for $19.95 on e-bay right now, how much do you guys have?
I can make this a career!"

--jaded

I think I said that...lol

Yes, Crack, yes you did. I find it humbling to re-read through this thread every once in a while and see what I said back before I had 2 70s, a 60 and close to 200 days /played on my account. The good old days of newbiness!

5200g later...got my epic flying mount. That thing is so fast it's kind of unsettling. I feel a bit motion sick, to be honest.

Yeah, I gotta say that back when I first started playing that 100g for an initial mount seemed hard to get, nevermind the 1000g for the traditional epic mount. Yet somehow here I am with my Swift Red Windrider.

I spent nearly two hours flying around like a fiend when I got my first epic flier. It's a truly awesome feeling.

What will REALLY surprise you is when you start feeling like it's not fast enough. Though, you have many long months of thrilling flight before that will kick in.

Either way, congrats! Post some screenies!

somehow?

do a /play and it's not just somehow, you put in a lot of time to get that thing :).

I have the 310 mount, can't get faster. And it totally rocks!

pally aura?

http://www.blizzard.com/us/inblizz/f...eens/ss548.jpg

*You are now affected by Crusader Aura* ^is probably not level 62^

Crusader Aura <3

From that picture I don't think there's a worse way to spend 5000 gold.

Of course, I guess you can't expect to buy a decent looking girl with digital currency.

I dunno.... she's kinda cute.....

She's all yours.

I should just put up a CL ad for 5000g to give away for sex.

i'm getting paid to play wow anyways. (I have a play at work only rule, hence i'm only level 22 after 2 weeks, lol)

My guild finally made it into Hyjal. Our 2nd kael kill was a 1 shot and we have like 34 people attuned now after only 2 kills. We nearly killed 4th boss Hyjal before we ran out of time tonight, He should be a 1 shot Sunday then we can put in some half assed Archimonde attempts for the rest of the night. I hope we can kill him this week but I'm not holding my breath.

is that still considered prostitution?

You know I never really read that full add....

"I'm also not adverse to the idea of groups/anal"

Fucked up the ass for a Epic Mount?

The Epic Mount gangbang?

Sounds like a guild event. Everyone chips in 100 gold and looses their virginity on the same day.

you could be a delinquent like this kid....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...q/ImBurned.jpg

c'mon he's in 10th grade...

maybe I should try that...:orly:

ROFL Shauk, that's hilarious.

I'm noticing a common theme with the paladin class, we're all bat shit insane.

I laughed so hard when I read this. And yea, Shauk, pallies are crazy weird...my boyfriend is one. :D

I play one too, but I never raid. I only do BG's and 3v3 with friends. Our class comp is kinda meh, but whatever. Arena is becoming a joke with all these point sellers (we can't even break 1580 rating, lmao.) Our comp is me (Holy)/SPriest & Shaman/Warrior. We keep myself and the Warrior in all the games and shift the Priest/Shaman once each have done their needed games for the week.

I plan on getting my S3 gloves next, while trying to upgrade my neck/rings through honor.

Link to my armory: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...rgeras&n=Matic

they got people farming and selling arena points now...how sad.

The SPriest is your problem. We are terrible in arenas.

Lol, it's true. :( He's an RL friend though and he knows Shadow is terrible for arena so he's getting the Discipline S3 pieces. ATM he's got the robe and gloves and he uses them in arena. Once he gets a few more pieces he'll be respeccing.

nice. Disc is hot in Arenas.

Back when I played, and just about only played horde we thought paladins were more raging pussies than batshit insane.

Bubble + hearthstone for the laugh.

I do miss my druid vrs paladin fights though, epic :)

too bad i sold my paladin



and easily the best of all of them

http://files.filefront.com/Markoflol.../fileinfo.html

they get over 100 people on the IF bridge......

epic.

quick! do it before they hotfix!


associated thread of budding terrorist cell paladins.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...sid=1&pageNo=1

screenshots and stories inside.


I needed a good laugh.

Ok check out the WoW homepage today for their April 1st feature. Spoiler: I laughed until I cried at the Molten Core video showing that skinning a bear should aggro every bears.

The bard looks amazing also. :thumbsup:

I was cracking up so hard when I saw the Molten Core feature. Looking at the concept art vs the screenshots. Fucking hilarious.

collection of SSs
 

1757 spell damage:

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/9...mageis0.th.jpg

Crouching tiger - hidden Moonkin

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/1...nmoorv8.th.jpg

First kill of lynx:

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/7...loodjn2.th.jpg

Ugly ass mofo gruul

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/3...mofocs9.th.jpg

omg, I got a bear mount

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/4...ountew1.th.jpg

Dad?

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/2...kemeqj6.th.jpg

Read the chat on this one:

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/9...chatyb7.th.jpg

hakkar looked cool:

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/5...coolif9.th.jpg

Epein used to be a twink:

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/4418/lolhg2.th.jpg
http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/525/ggdk4.th.jpg

Now Sykes is:

http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/663...ftw2ds9.th.jpg
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/2...rftwgy9.th.jpg

chillin wif my homies:
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4...mmienp3.th.jpg

Post some of your good/best crits/normal nukes Crack.

My friend is leveling up a Moonkin and I'm curious how good they are with that kind of gear.

I usually don't take SSs of crits unless they are extremely insane, like on netherspite when I have taken the blue bean for 40 tics or something crazy like that.

It would take a while to get the kind of gear I've got, unless you are on a PvE server in a BT guild or something..

I have 1180 spell damage, all leather.
according to gankbang.com:
#10 on spell damage in my battlegroup (ruin)
#80 worldwide

My normal crit with starfire is 4400ish unbuffed, raid buffed, i've hit 6k

wrath is 2300-2500 raid buffed 3200

moonfire normal 1200ish, raid buffed 1650

It's pretty hard to one shot someone nowadays, but I have 2 shot a few people..lol

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...llow&n=Farseen

be aware, I log out in strange gear some times...

So since I hit 70 with my main on Tichondrius and got my flying epic mount, I was invited by some friends to roll a character on their server and level with them. So now I have a NE druid on Llane--my first experience on a PvE server, and let me say it's totally different. Tich is a high population server, and the economy moves a lot faster. It's kind of a bummer, but not getting ganked 20 times at Nesingwarys while trying to turn in quests makes it worth it. Despite the lack of a good economy, I'm still making a fair amount of gold.

I'm feral right now for leveling, but I'm probably going to go balance before too long--I just prefer playing a caster, especially in terms of pvp. I am used to pvping with my warlock, throwing up tons of dots, so this is a totally different, new experience for me. I feel bad when I try to BG (the only real pvp opportunity on a pve server) because I'm still trying to figure out what works best in pvp. :(

People who have druids--tips are definitely welcome and appreciated.

you're playing on a PvE server?

BG9 foreva!

/shun

haha, seriously I leveled to 60 on my 1st account on a pvp server (Kil'Jaeden, same battlegroup as Tich) heres the thing about PvE server that ruined them for me.

I transfered my 60 with hand of rag and full T2/PvP/various supplemental epics to this server and people were all like "ooh ahhh, never seen you before"

I told them I was from a pvp server and they got hostile and insulting, and the fact that i was geared for pvp instead of pve made them talk a lot of shit as well.

fine, stuck with it a bit, the straw that broke the camels back, a warrior of the opposing faction comes up to me in the middle of hellfire pen, as i'm mining a node....

on a pvp server, 2 miners of an opposing faction = Fight to the death
on a pve server? he just fucking spits on me and follows me around like a dumbass for like 5 minutes. /rude /spit /laugh /mock whatever

I never wanted to smash a face so badly.

I rerolled on KJ again, the reason I even transferred to a pve server dissolved fairly quickly anyway, flaky family member who didn't play that often, ex gf that I wound up dumping anyway, etc..

I'm doing pretty good compared to other BM hunters on my server. My damn armory isn't updated so it's showing my Attack Power at #2 on server and 45th in battlegroup but once it updates I should be #1 on server and #3 in Battlegroup. I wish I could compare crit but these dang PVP hunters pretty much own the bracket. Also funny to note I am 41st when looking at hit rating and I'm 4 points over cap :)

I have no life...sadly I get laided off from my job so I sit at home for 6 months, now I got 4 70's with full kara epic and my main is T5/T6 geared...

I just came to realize that now...lol

I began life in WoW on a PvP server as a druid, so I can give you some pointers. Feral is a great way to level, but if I may be so bold as to suggest (unless you're doing a lot of instances to level, which in that case is probably best to remain mostly in one talent tree): put a good amount of talent points into feral, but for sheer survivability while soloing out in the big bad world, put points in furor of the resto tree so that when you need to do those quick heals between diving back into the action, you have rage and/or energy to start the fight back up right away. This also works really well in PvP because you may find yourself switching between forms often if only to remove movement-impairing spells or abilities (amazingly handy in WSG for example, when you're the flag carrier). Also, a few points in balance for the nature's grasp is wonderful in both PvE and PvP since you can still use it while in bear or cat form, and also because it can give you up to an extra 10 seconds of time to quickly heal or to run away.

That's all a great way to level and to get in some PvP until you get to level 40-which is where I truly began tinkering with PvP builds. I found that moonkin druids do surprisingly well; I found myself at the top of the charts almost always. I mean, come on: the same armor buff as a tank druid (so it can survive through a lot more than most typical damage casters), plus mana regen based on attack power, plus a party buff that gives 5% spell crit chance? Top that off with the ability to still remove movement-impairing effects through shapeshifting? Yes, please!

The biggest suggestion I can make for you in BG PvP is to never be afraid to do a lot of switching between forms, no matter what you decide to ultimately specialize in. Always, always be moving, be willing to adapt at any moment, and do what you can to be the first to strike in any encounter and confuse your enemy.

Good luck, and message if you'd like any other tips!

I pvp as a well-geared resto druid, and I love it. I am the biggest prick on the planet. One-on-one I can essentially stay alive indefinitely, or, at least until the cavalry arrives. I heartily recommend it ;)

I'm 36 now, so I'm closing in on 40 fast. Both my SO and roommate have said I should respec moonkin once I get there, as both think it would suit my playing preferences. I definitely enjoy playing a caster more, so I think it would be a good change. Resto doesn't really have any appeal for me; I dislike healing, and don't like getting pressured/harassed to join groups to do so. It doesn't help that no matter what I choose, I'll still be getting random whispers asking what my spec is.

Ya a resto druid in are guild dueled me once while waiting for a mount hyjal raid to begin it probably lasted 30 mins, but im a mage with 94 mana regen so I finally took him down but I think he just got bored lol.

Scorps,

As a lvl 70 mage as well, I feel your pain ;) Unless the mage gets lucky w/ CS/crits or I'm caught off-guard, I can stand there and take a beating for a long, long time.

On my mage, if I come across a resto druid I just walk away. Ain't worth my time ;)

PS - Just a tip: Don't spellsteal hots. They cost me 220 mana, they cost you 550ish to steal!

PPS - Do spellsteal innervate!

I'm proud to announce that I have quit WoW for the 3rd time. This time I hope to make it permanent.

You could have informed me before this happened :(. The wifey quit too?

i quit wow like 15 times now.

hehe i like how people fool themselves into thinking they can quit. The only way to quit WoW is to replace it with another RPG like everquest or some such thingamajammer.

Seeing as the only thing I really did was PvP at the end, it was very easy for me to replace it with COD4.

I don't think I could quit to many friends.

I might quit once I hit 70. I've been playing for more than a year and my highest character is 50. I get bored and start new characters all the time, I have commitment issues. Does anyone play on Runetotem?

Sargeras here, used to be Kil'Jaeden Horde but I transferred to play with RL friends. 70 Paladin, 70 Priest. Paladin is my main though, I rarely play my SPriest.

It took me over a year to get the first character I rolled to 60, pre-BC. I had the same problem; kept rolling and leveling alts. Then, after BC came out, I rolled a new character on Tichondrius, and was challenged by my SO and roommate (both play on Tich) to get her to 70. I couldn't roll an alt until I hit 40, according to the challenge. I'm not such a character whore now. Plus, it's a lot easier to level these days. 50-60 is easy, because you have that carrot of hitting 58 and getting to go through the Dark Portal and starting the quests in Outland. 60-70 just flies by, because the quests in Outland are numerous.

But you can't just quit at 70--you need to start making money and saving so you can experience the awesomeness that is the epic flying mount!

The game doesn't really begin until you hit 70. :P

Took me 3 weeks to go from 60 to 70 (tier 2 gear helped) my main is now decked out in T5 and some T6ish gear. but none of my toons have an epic flying mount mostly because I now have 4 70's with epics and flying mounts...lol one day I will stop spending gold on all my toons and get my main an epic flyer.

And then once you have one epic flyer, you have to get another for your alt, because you can't in any way tolerate being on a fat kid mount after having an epic.

I need to get my priest to 70 so I can equip all the primal mooncloth gear I've already made and buy him his epic flyer which I've already farmed. Yay dailies and solo-farming Scholomance as an enchanter!

ya my warrior is my chanter so I might have to start farming stuff its just now im getting lucky in kara with my warrior and already got half the epics off 1 damn run through thats where all my gold has gone (damn gems)

I know all about the epic flying mount thing thats why I don't really want 1, could you imagine farming 4 of them...sigh

Farming gold get a lot easier once you have 1 epic mount. The epic mount opens up a ton of quests with the netherwing dragon stuff and also once you're zipping around farming ore and/or herbs goes insanely faster.

Maybe it's just my server, but I can't recommend highly enough the farming of the beginning of scholomance up through the gargoyle boss, especially if you're an enchanter. I did it about 6 times earlier this week and have made probably 500g between the runecloth and the argent dawn quest items and the enchanting materials that I dusted from there, along with the silver and greys that drop.

I'm not totally sure where my gold comes from, exactly, but I seem to have plenty of it. Never had a problem getting it in TBC. I have two epic flyers, the money to buy two more and about every piece of gear worth buying.

I make a lot of money off of fishing and cooking. I paid for my epic flyer with money made off of farming primals fishing in Nagrand. All the stuff you catch alongside the motes of water can make a fair chunk of change if it's cooked.

Even leveling my druid, I've been leveling my fishing and cooking as I go, and I'm already able to fish at two of the most profitable places in the old world.

If any of you guys are an engineer i HIGHLY recommend getting these two items:

Zapthrottle Mote Extractor:
http://thottbot.com/i23821

and

Ultra-Spectropic Detection Goggles
http://thottbot.com/i23762

That way when you're running around doing your normal farming/collecting/dailies you can detect and extract floating mote clouds. The things are everywhere and they usually give you 3-5 motes. You make primals like crazy. For my epic mount i flew around SMV in a big circle mining ore and zapping mote clouds.

Every time i zap one it makes me feel like a ghostbuster :p

Reading this thread is like reading German. I recognize some words, but then there's some I don't and the ones I do recognize are put together in a way that doesn't make sense to me.

I suppose it only makes sense. If World of Warcraft is going to have it's own economy, it might as well have it's own language too.

Carry on.

Actually, a friend of mine wrote a research paper for a literacy class on the language of World of Warcraft. She had never played before, but was interested because I played and so did another friend of ours. So she observed us playing and interviewed us on the subject, then rolled her own character on my friend's account and gave it a try. It didn't stick, but the paper was interesting.

Im the only one in the household here that plays the game, my 2 brothers have no idea what im saying half the time when im chatting with friends on vent.

I will never understand why blizzard does some of the things it does. The new rating announcement for season four makes so little sense for the majority of the people who play this game; it's just astonishing.

I see why the pvp elite love it, but it's not going to really have that big an impact on point buying and selling (which is just going to become rating buying and selling). It's a very strange change in the face of making such good gear available through badge loot. I have always understood the rating requirement on weapons, since they make a disproportionate impact in pve and pvp, but the rating requirements on every piece of armor, including the honor gear? Yeow. That's some crazy shit right there.

I hope it gets changed, but blizzard looks like they're going into entrenched mode.

it's all scheduled to be mudflated epeen stroking anyway, who cares?

The mentality of Blizzard developers is basically to seperate the "hardcore" from the "casual". Pretty much every person on WoW's dev team is a piece of shit, Tigole and Furor were when they played EQ, and still are. Kalgan balances classes based on what he's playing and what classes are on his arena team each season.

Pretty much all of them want a gap between the "top"(which means picking the flavor of the month classes to build a team)and the "bottom"(everyone else). The basic idea was to give the top a headstart in season 1, and slowly widen the gap with rating reqs until you get to season 4, which pretty much stops Casual John from getting anything.

Tigole has pretty much been opposed to pvp epics for a while, and he used to call them "welfare epics" because in his fucked up little mind raiding is so hard.

This, and the fact that I believe Blizzard is trying to promote Pro-gaming inside their own games. They've seen with Starcraft how long a game can continue to run if you have a sufficiently big group of people playing it at a "professional level".
And they were kicking themselves over it for the past 10 years, because they couldn't charge $13 a month.


I'm starting to regret even subscribing to the Blizzard WW invitational in Paris this summer, the game holds 0 attraction anymore.

Raiding, bah. Raiding is the most BORING part of the whole game. It comes down to making yourself part of a mechanism that keeps doing the same thing over and over and over and over. And after 3-5h of this "fun", you either *may* or *may not* even get anything for it. A huge waste of time.

At least 5-man instances were shorter, and you had quests that sometimes held worthwhile rewards.

raiding takes a lot more effort than joining a throwaway arena team and picking up epics, sorry, it's true.

arena takes NO effort to reap the rewards.

it may not be as fast as the teams that put forth a real effort and play correctly, but in the end, you'll have gear that is only marginally worst than those people with high personal ratings.

So glad I quit this pathetic game.

World of lolcraft, grindcraft, nerfcraft, newbcraft ..

I used to be a hardcore raider .. and then .. Bliz made TBC - which was fine up until around .. 2 months in when the "make it easier for the general (unskilled) population to play.

I honestly can't believe -anyone- thinks that Bliz has made it harder for casual players. LOLMYFINGGOD .. look at the changes to badges, etc. Anyone want more free epics? LMFAO. Wow .. lame

I invite everyone to come to Warhammer Online once it releases - it will be quite awesome I am sure .. bringing back the good from WoW.

Warhammer really has no appeal to me. Age of Conan is probably going to make me cancel my WoW account which is just draining money out of my bank evey month with me not playing it hardly at all.

Age of Conan's priest class(es) really make me happy. No more either go holy and heal or go shadow and poorly dps and not heal.

As someone who raided and had a full set of season 2 gear in season 2, raiding is not "harder" than arena teams.
Paying attention and generally not being an idiot are the only two skills you need. The same applies to arenas, except add "have the most OP classes on your team".

Assuming you're a 1500 rated player getting around 300 points a week, that's a month just for the S3 gloves(not counting grinding up to 15k or more honor per piece of the s3 honor gear). I'm pretty sure most people could get multiple epics in that time from raiding/doing heroics alone. The biggest (and most important) difference between the two sets of gear is resilience.

The biggest problem with the arena system right now is the flavor of the month class combos. Rogues/Disc Priests etc being so strong in arenas because class balance doesen't exist.

fix'd


seriously, you don't even have to win a single game, it's retarded.

when bosses start dropping epics and set pieces after 10 wipes, you'll have a case.

PvE is earning your gear, is an accomplishment.

PvP is a joke, as you said, balance doesn't exist so *yank yank*

In my opnion, when they wanted to start arenas they should have done it the way the Arena Tournaments are going to be, a completely seperate server that doesn't have anything to do with BG's or PVE.