Willravel

Mothology: The final five have a definate connection to the traveling Earth colonists, which runs against the timeline we were given in which the Earthlings left thousands of years ago, but the Cylons are only 40-60 years old. I'm wondering if the final 5 might be more supernatural than we had previously been lead to believe. Could it be thery traveled through time? Or could it be that the Earthicans, with their precognative abilities, forsaw the current situation and left behind the identities of the final five to assist the human fleet.
Earth: The fleet knows where to head next!
Food: Did we forget that the reason we were on the planet was to gather edible fungus becuase we were out of food? Oops...
Hybrid: HERA IS BACK, AND SHE BROUGHT CAPRICA!!! I couldn't be happier that Carl and Athena have their daughter back, and Caprica helped them!! I missed seeing Caprica in a role seperate from Baltar.
Baltar: "Welcome back, Mr. President..." *thwak* Awesome. So now we have Baltar back amongst the humans and, according to the previews, in quite a bit of danger. Spoiler: I wonder if we wil get to see the beginning of the trial next week or if they'll make us wait unti; the week after. I can't wait to meet Baltar's representative, with his cape.
Lee, Starbuck, and the people that love them: Lee and Starbuck are assholes. De and Anders are codependant. Yeesh.
Starbuck the visionary: WTF?! What could this possibly mean? Is Starbuck a prophet? Is she a cylon? Will she find Earth? Boy, that was out of left field.
Bye, bye, Zena: Fair thee well. So now there are 11 cylons because the entire model of Dianna was boxed! I wonder if that's going to lead to a lot of 50/50 decisions with 3 cylons going one way and 6 going the other. No more tie breakers. Maybe they can do a secret ballot.

Either way, the wait was waaay to long, and I can't wait for next Sunday (why the move to Sunday?!).

Lucifer

I don't know why the move to Sunday, but it's a pain in the ass.
Is Starbuck a cylon? I overheard that in the halls today. Personally I think either Adama or Tigh is a cylon....
'Course, if Laura has her way and flushes Baltar out of an airlock, like in the previews, I guess that'll solve the whole "is Baltar a cylon" thing...

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- Job 30:29

1123, 6536, 5321

kutulu

I was reading a fucking TV guide before the season started and it mentioned that a cylon model would be boxed but not who. There was also other shit in there that is major and hasn't happened yet.

Ch'i

They pretty much covered than in The Eye of Jupiter; they were processing the algae and had already been shipping it up to the fleet.


I'm really curious as well about the whole Starbuck-unintentional-foresight-thing.

robot_parade

There's no way Adama or Starbuck is a cylon - but...if Tigh were a cylon...wow...that would be...really messed up. Seeing as how the show tends to max out the 'messed-upness' factor, I guess he would be my top vote.

Seems very unlikely they would make Baltar a cylon, since he's the one wondering if he is or not.

I can't really imagine any of the major human characters as a cylon, though. But since she recognized at least one of them, and said 'I'm sorry'...I guess it has to be someone we've seen.

Was anyone else bothered by the fact that:

o Human doctor, when presented with a cylon/human hybrid, can quickly figure out how to cure cancer with it's blood?

o Cylon doctors, when presented with a cylon/human hybrid, can't seem to figure out how to fix what appears to be a blocked digestive system?
(but, on the other hand - why would the cylons need to learn anything about surgery or advanced medicine? If one of them gets 'damaged' enough to require extensive fixing, just exterminate it and it will be downloaded into a new body.)

On a related note - are any of the cylons we've seen expert scientists or engineers? Or are they all just using the tools provided to them by 'someone' (the final five, maybe?)

Willravel

Baltar is a genius, and humankind has a lot of exierience in dealing with innovative medicine.
Objection, your honor, asked and answered.
While it's not made clear, I suspect that there is a slave worker class in addition to the centurions and raiders. Ironic, no?

Ch'i

I thought Sharon was using that as an excuse to bring the baby back to Galactica and pursuade Boomer to let them do it.

guthmund

I thought the show was pretty good despite the shit ass previews they had been showing for about a week.

The only problem with the show--other than unbelievably oily Lee--is the Admiral seems to be going soft.

Mondak kind of brought it up earlier and at the time I just thought "this too will pass," but soft Adama seems here to stay, which irriates me to no end. Where on earth is the incredibly tough, but fair hard-ass from the mini-series and season 1? After Sharon shot him, he's changed from the rough, respectable father figure with a heart of gold into the doddering, soft relic that nobody listens to and then walks all over. The Grandpa Simpson of Galactica, if you will.

Helo shoots Sharon and suffers nothing? Gets in the President's face with chest puffed out and no reprimand other than weak ass gesture of the hand? Sharon, for all intents and purposes, leaves the ship to consort with the enemy and then she just flys back to Galactica with nary a trouble. She just walks off with hubby to see the doc, while the rest of the deck crew appropriately flip out over Caprica showing up.

I understand the idea is that they're family, but godsdamn aren't they taking it too far? The survival of the human race is at stake, the fate of the race to Earth is hanging in the balance and Adama can't seem to keep his crew in line. The only person who seems to be trying--or at least talking about it--is the President and they're painting her as a hypocrite.

Not to say there haven't been flashes of the old Adama, I just wish it would stick.

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kutulu

Adama, Tigh, Apollo can't be cylons. Probably not Starbuck either. Cylons don't age and there are people that can obviously vouch for their existance and aging.

Willravel

...unless they were replaced at some point. The Admiral didn't see Lee for a few years, who knows?

The cylon is either De, Anders, Roselyn, or Geata.

I'ts probably not Zarek because he's been famous for a while, so he would haev aged in the public eye. It's probably not Anders for the same reason (though we don't know how long cylons have been under, he could have made his way up through the minors into the majors in a few years).

Mondak

godsdamn . . . nice touch. . .

__________________
All truth passes through three stages:
First it is ridiculed
Second, it is violently opposed and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

ARTHUR SCHOPENHAUER (1788-1860)

Gilda

I just watched this week's episode, and dang, it's irritating when they get basic science wrong. With the air draining from the airlock, the problem for the Chief and Caleigh wouldn't be freezing, it would be overheating, along with depressurization. Vacuum is cold, sure, but it's also a near perfect insulator. Body heat has no place to go, so the body heats up.

Otherwise, it was a good slice of life episode.

__________________
I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that.

~Steven Colbert

onodrim

Heh, thanks for the info, I would never have guessed something like that. It is too bad they got it wrong, but at least they're right more often than most of the crap on TV lately!

I also enjoyed this past episode. I've seen a lot of people complaining about the last few being filler, but personally I've enjoyed seeing the character development. It makes everything much more real to see how things run when they've gone for nearly two months without a cylon attack.

__________________
"The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides"
-Carl Sagan

Willravel

They weren't in a vacuum, though. The air was very slowly leaking out, and that leak was moving the heat energy out of the room...but the thin air still could draw the heat from the body. You're absolutely right that in a vacuum heat stays in because thermal diffusion (conduction) only can happen between a solid, liquid or gas, though. Also, you can lose radiative heat in a vacuum, though that wouldn't be much at all.

I was hoping they might have sunburns, for realism.

I really loved the episode. The intruduction of Admiral Adama's ex wife was a fascinating window into his past and also explained quite a bit about his relationship with Lee and Zach. I'm always happy to get more back story. Also, the law books not only act as an anchor for Lee, but a tie in to the much anticipated "Caprica" series.

Gilda

Sure, it's drawing heat energy from the room, but it's doing so along with a drop in air pressure. The amount of heat would be going down, but the temperature drop would be very slow, and they'd in the meantime be having difficulty dumping their excess body heat due to the thin air.

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I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that.

~Steven Colbert

Ch'i

Battlestar Galactica is the best show on television.

hagatha

I really like the dedication to character development on the show. That is why BSG is really one of the best dramas on television to date.

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Thats the last time I trust the strangest people I ever met....H. Simpson

SecretMethod70

It's so refreshing to come here and see that people are enjoying the last few episodes. Over at TVSquad, where I read reviews (well, more accurately, recaps) of each episode after it airs, it seems people really don't like these "filler" episodes. The posts on the official sci-fi channel boards aren't much better. The fact is, while we all enjoy awesome space battles, and crazy revelations regarding the mythos, every episode can't have that - especially when the season is 20 hours long. Instead, some weeks, we get episodes that are almost entirely dedicated to character development. I, for one, enjoy it, and I'm glad to see that there are others who do as well.

Besides, we all know that when they return to the action for the end of the season it's going to be insanely awesome, so why not sit back and enjoy the break in intensity for a bit! <hr>In other news, Battlestar Galactica has been renewed for a 4th season, apparently returning to the 13 episode format of season 1. This renewal also means that there will likely be a straight-to-DVD/TV movie between season 3 and 4. Details on the movie are not yet known.

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

Ch'i

I was worried about last week's episode being a "filler." But I have no idea why that thought ever came to me. The episode was very well directed, and had a captivating touch. It was very cool to have an episode based in developing Admiral Adama.

kutulu

Aren't they just out in space, rather than near a star?

Willravel

Solar radiation fills space.

oneofmanymen

I for one have enjoyed the last couple episodes, along with the rest of my family. To many time "space" shows are about the special effects more than the story. Battlestar is the exception to all space tv. I love it and theres nothing better than BSG except for Firefly.

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Everything works if you let it....

SecretMethod70

Just when I thought I could love Gaius Baltar/James Callis anymore...for as little as he appeared in this past episode, it was definitely one of the better Baltar episodes!

And, I just want to share with all of you here what is being said in some other corners of the internet about the most recent episode of BSG:And that, folks, is why great shows like BSG struggle to find an audience. It takes a special kind of stupid to call character development "boring."

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

Gilda

This was a very good episode IMO. We get to see the continuation of the small story arc with The Chief, Caleigh, and even Seelix got a little development.

Sure, it's the third or fourth episode in a row without Cylons, but so what? BSG is at it's core a show about what it means to be human, and this can be explored through interaction between the humans and the fleet or the humans and the Cylons.

There were some small problems--I just knew the kid sent to the refining ship was going to get badly injured or killed the moment he showed up; he had "red shirt" written all over him--but the way it gives us some insight into how messy and fragile the situation is helps keep the show grounded. One of the problems with a lot of science fiction is how clean it seems.

This was a good episode. Not the stinker that "Scar" was, and not the great entertainment that "Exodus" was, but still some solid storytelling.

I do have to say that the solution they came up with, drafting civilians and forcing them into labor on the refining ship was nearly as bad as letting the refiners continue without relief.

Good character development, and good exploration of a complex problem. I'm not getting the complaints.

__________________
I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that.

~Steven Colbert

SecretMethod70

True, the solution was pretty terrible, but their situation is pretty terrible too. I think that's what made the episode particularly interesting. It's difficult to pick sides when while you want to side with Chief Tyrol and demand decent working conditions, you're also faced with the reality that they have a very limited number of people, are stuck in space, and may have to run from the cylons at any minute. If that's not a decent argument for "I don't care how it gets done, just do it," I don't know what is! With that in mind, the solution they came up with seems pretty reasonable. People get much-needed downtime and jobs requiring minimal experience get rotated. I'm not sure that there's any better solution for them considering the circumstances.

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

hagatha

Once again BSG presents a thoughtful look at relevent societal issues, mainly workers' rights and the social hierarchy in a really compelling way. I am so addicted to this show that I'm afeared it will be cancelled.
Baltar is quickly becoming one of my favority anti-heros.

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Thats the last time I trust the strangest people I ever met....H. Simpson

SecretMethod70

You know, I've been saying for awhile now that BSG will ultimately be able to be seen as the fall and redemption of Gaius Baltar. Yet, for some reason, I never thought of him as an anti-hero. Now that you've described him that way, I'm not sure why I didn't.

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

Mondak

With all you Baltarists out there, is there room for a hater in your midst?

This story could have been told without the Baltar vehicle. I think he did too much in recent history to be redeemable as a credible information source. His sins:

1. Sold out the 13 colonies for some ass. His actions led to the deaths of billions of people. The only thing is that no everyone knows this.

2. Pitched the people on moving to New Caprica despite his own understanding that it would be a disaster of a planet to move to. Why? He wanted to win the election. If you go back to the merits of Roslyn v. Baltar for president, her argument was not to settle a planet - it was that THIS was the wrong planet to choose. The Scientist presented information on why it was ideally suitable that was false. The climate and resources were inappropriate as a long term home for a people to proliferate on. People would not forget this.

3. He lived in a den of moral filth BEFORE the Cylons took over on New Caprica and supplied a million reasons why people would hate him on his own. Then he acted as an pawn of the Cylons rather than fighting back. The kind of kangaroo court that I see coming where the whole story won't come out but his version will be accepted as truth by a jury will be very frustrating.

I don't think the people would be so willing to jump back on the Baltar wagon. Why did the writers do it? Well they are not going to kill off this dirt bag, so they had to find a way for him to "plausibly" get back in. I don't think it is plausible at all.


In other news, the President and the Admiral would not turn that blind and eye to the problems of the refinery ship and the rest of the fleet just to do an about face a few hours later. Helo runs all over the place on his own agenda and Adama thanks him for keeping to his moral compass. The Chief who is WAY above board on being reliable, valuable and having good judgment gets forced into a no win situation, jail and has his wife's life threatened. This results in the very situation that would have really happened from the get go: Roslyn and Adama listen to him and trust his judgment. Retarded.

Am I complaining that I didn't see enough space battles and they did too much with character development? Nope (although space battles are shiny treats). Instead I say that they directly contradicted very detailed previous character development so that they could somehow get Baltar back in the game.

Yuk. . .

__________________
All truth passes through three stages:
First it is ridiculed
Second, it is violently opposed and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

ARTHUR SCHOPENHAUER (1788-1860)

hagatha

But Mondak what kind of character would Baltar be if he was just a uni-dimensional dirtbag? He is a weak, egotistical man but not necessarily all bad. He was spot on when he pointed out the inequities that existed within the fleet. Did he do this for his own self-serving reasons or to effect change?
I can't help but find the character interesting, if not sympathetic.
And yes, I believe redemption is always a possibility.

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Thats the last time I trust the strangest people I ever met....H. Simpson

onodrim

There's no denying that Baltar has made some pretty huge mistakes. However, there's a big difference in knowingly setting up the colonies for destruction just for some ass, and being used as a means to an end. I think it's been made quite clear over the years how incredibly guilty Baltar feels about the part he unknowingly played in that. You make some valid observations and of course you're entitled to dislike Baltar if that's the way you see it, I don't mean to disregard your entire post. But as for your first point, it's not fair to make it seem as though he knew what was happening and didn't care. Yes, he gave Six access to things he shouldn't have for ass, but he certainly didn't know what it would lead to.

__________________
"The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides"
-Carl Sagan

Mondak

You see, THAT is what is wrong with our society today. Nothing is anyone's fault. Who could have known? Rubbish!!! You work for the planetary defense and you have codes to get into the system, what would you THINK someone might want them for?

SIX: Gee Baltar, I really want to play some space invaders on the defense grid mainframe. You mind giving me the global access codes?

BALTAR: You are still going to frak me though right? Oh by the way, having these fall into the wrong hands could lead to the end of our civilization. So even though I went through eight million levels security clearances and background checks and even though I promised to never reveal these codes to anyone, how about you promise not to give them to anyone mmmmkay?

On second thought, you are right. How COULD he have known. We should all feel sorry for him instead. He was just a helpless doe eyed deer when he handed over the codes, made a fake Cylon detector, gave a nuke to a Cylon in the fleet so she could blow up herself, a ship and a couple thousand others, lied about New Caprica to get elected, screwed all the people on the planet, worked with the Cylons, helped put the Cylons on the path to Earth, etc. . .

Me? I prefer to take responsibility for my actions. I demand the same of my SciFi characters, and condemn those who don't.

__________________
All truth passes through three stages:
First it is ridiculed
Second, it is violently opposed and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

ARTHUR SCHOPENHAUER (1788-1860)

SecretMethod70

You may have missed it - it was only referenced in a couple lines here and there - but the reason he gave the codes to Six is because he thought she worked for a company that was competing for a defense contract. As far as Baltar was concerned, he was just helping Company X beat out Company Y for the contract.

Anyway, I was going to make a big long post about Baltar and why, while guilty of many things, there are other things to consider about his character as well, but actually I think there's a more important point to be made...

This is a TV show. In life, we obviously want to have a stable rule of law and see "bad guys" caught. On the other hand, I propose that in fictional entertainment, it's best to have characters like Baltar who are flawed, make mistakes, but not totally evil. Regardless of whether or not you like Baltar, you have to admit they make an effort not to portray the situation as black and white. Even if you hate him, I don't think anyone would say Baltar is totally evil. Simply put, it makes for good TV. If you want cookie-cutter characters who are either "good" or "bad," and you want to see the "good guys" always prevail and the "bad guys" always lose in the end, watch the original Battlestar Galactica (and I say this as someone who actually enjoyed it, for all its campiness). Otherwise, enjoy the ride, and be thankful that this Baltar is such a flawed, human character who is not simply evil.

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

DaveOrion

Exactly...its just a fictional show, not reality, and its been going downhill for a while. My Kingdom for some actual excitement again.....a space battle, a cylon encounter...something besides interpersonal relationships and the beginning of a workers union.......like Adama would have actually shot someone for mutiny...Please!!!!

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Willravel

Adama would have shot Cally.

aberkok

I think he was bluffing.

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hagatha

No, I think he would've.

__________________
Thats the last time I trust the strangest people I ever met....H. Simpson

SecretMethod70

To (mostly) quote another comment from TVSquad:I have no doubt that if Chief hadn't given in, Adama would have had Cally shot. He needs to make sure that people are doing what is necessary to keep the fleet ready for the Cylons, and that they know there are consequences if they aren't. Chief can represent the workers and be their voice to the Admiral and President, so long as they can trust that he will keep them working while he negotiates better working conditions. Adama made that clear.

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

Willravel

I find that listening to the podcast enhances my Battlestar experience. Included in this past podcast is Ronald D. Moore explaining how Adama would have done it. Just fyi.

SecretMethod70

Do you watch every episode twice Will? I've listened to a couple podcasts, and I've saved all of them, but I just can't find the time to watch every episode twice through for the podcast.

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

DaveOrion

Had Adama actually shot Cally, he would have been seen as a dictator and murderer, the whole fleet would have mutinied and all would be lost. Theres a fine line between military authority and actual murder. They may be at war, but supposedly Roslin is still in charge......she eventually did hear what the chief had to say......they could not exist with a subserviant underclass, that had no rest, no means of promotion, and most of all no hope. In the end Adama and Roslin realized this......maybe we should too...

__________________
Syriana...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...