Mondak

yee haw! Nice one.

I can't even see the actor or the complex charachter presented on the show. I see a man who sold out the human race. I see a man who pretends altruism, condemns those who act in their own self interest and secretly acts that way himself. I see the same person that our politicians are as well as most people around I run across in a given day.

I suppose it is too bad. . . I hear that he is a cool charachter.

At least guthmund and willravel get to enjoy him. . .

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thesupermikey

Spoiler: holy fuck holy fuck holy fuck holy fuck holy fuck holy fuck holy fuck holy fuck holy fuck

more when people have seen it

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Kadath

Yeah, that was a very, very good episode. The acting in the last half dozen lines was a little weak, and the lines themselves were a touch corny, but I really felt this made up for the last few episodes.

Spoiler: I count five models (of twelve) so far: Number 6, Lucy Lawless (who calls herself number 3), the Boomer model (8?), a white male (5?) and a black male. Did I miss any?

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guthmund

Spoiler: The black guy is Simon.

#5 = Doral / he was a public relations officer in the mini-series aboard the Galactica when she was being decommissioned. He showed up again with a press pass to suicide bomb the battlestar later in the first season.

You missed Leoben. The first one was an arms smuggler who tried to kill Commander...excuse me Admiral Adama at weapons depot. The second Starbuck interrogated and Roslin shoved out an airlock.

So that's six of the 12 accounted for, right?

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thesupermikey

do we count the Spoiler: 2 different radars and the base star, the resurrection ship (maybe) and centurion as models? if so that makes Spoiler: 11


Spoiler: I really dig that how 6 has the visons of Baltar. That’s a great move my the writers. After a few really poor episodes this season, things are starting to pick back up as we head into the last 2 episodes.

Also, Lucy Lawless looked super hot in the tanktop

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spectre

When I saw that, my first reaction was, Spoiler: "Holy shit! Baltar's a frakin' cylon!"

That was an incredible episode.

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japhyryder

Looks like a good season ender next week

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guthmund

Nope. It's been discussed here already, I believe, and 12 refers to the number of skin-jobs alone.

I got a little nervous there myself. I thought I was going have to eat some serious crow.

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Mondak

I started yelling out loud for a second! I was so fraking loud! Oh what a crazy turn of events.

Very creative of them. In fact, I think I like the asshole Baltar who is in Six's head way better than the normal criminal Baltar.

So that being said, I am really confused. Why would the Six who got raped be at all affected by Baltar's line about buying two tickets to pyramid etc.? I mean if each cylon skin job is replicated individually, then why would Sharon #2 (preggo) know anything about the Chief and stuff? Why doesn't all the Sharons know about absolutly everything or nothing? Why is it selective. I really don't get it.

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Willravel

Imaginee you have a twin, or better yet a clone. You live seperate lives, but you are still the same person beyond environmental factors. Isn't it possible that you could have similar interests? As for Mommy Sharon knowing about the Cheif, I have no idea.

thesupermikey

they area all connected in a way...sort of a hive mind?
they all are apart of a greater whole, but each model is, in itself an individual.

That is why Spoiler: sharon and 6 think that they can bring and end to the war

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mrklixx

Yeah, I'm still confused as to how the cylon consciousness works. Because the "same model/individual consciousness" doesn't work because there are currently at least 2 "model#5's" that have the Sharon consciousness. And it's obvious that just because the models are the same as another, they do not share a collective, since there are other model#6's that knew Baltar is alive ("Gina" & "Shelley Godfrey").

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Willravel

Just so we're clear:
Sharon #1: Sharon who fell in love with the Cheif, shot Adalma, got assasinated
Sharon #2: Sharon who fell in love with Heilo, was pregnate and is now pretty pissed
Six #1 (a.k.a. 'Caprica Six'): Baltars lover, infatuated and posessed by Baltar
Six #2: showed up on Galatctica in episode "Six Degrees of Separation" (season 1, episode 7), accoused Baltar of treason
Six #3: captured and tortured (and raped) by the Pegasus crew, rescued by Baltar, assasinated Admiral, free with a nuke

I suspect that the reason the experiences of Sharon #1 and Six #1 were not downloaded into the community is to avoid just what's happening now...descent. Althought I'm still not certian of the hierarchy of the cylons, besides the clones being over the drones, I do know that there are obviously some clones that are higher on the command structure than others. There is obviously delegation of responsibilities. Unless we're talking about a borg-like collective, I suspect that some cylons are in charge. Maybe the true leaders will be satanic aliens a la Battlestar 1979-1980.

Latch

That was the best episode I've seen in a long long time.

A Six having Baltar was awesome. He was great too, first time I've really liked the character.. and he was imaginary. It's also great to see that the Cylons aren't perfect either, and have problems among each other.


Just, wow.. I love it.

(also, random prediction.. peace-loving cylons and/or cylon-human hybrids will be what end up on the Earth, taking it over. This happened many many many (thousands, millions? of) years ago.. and it's what we are now. We just don't actually realize it.

guthmund

The more I think about it, the more confusing it seems to get, eh?

I have a little theory...please bear with me..

What if there are base-models of the 12 skin-jobs? Each individual model has an identical pool of memories that it's 'equipped' with before they go...do their individual thing.

It's fairly obvious that the Cylons in the fleet aren't communicating with their Cylon overlords. Otherwise the Cylons would just keep hammering the shit out of them, right? The Cylons needed to bug a ship just follow the fleet around, remember? So, all Cylon agents in the fleet are operatives in the wind.

So let me bring all that together...

So...each version of Sharon would start out as the 'Raptor pilot, Mom gave her the stupid elephants, Chief is her boyfriend (his picture is in her apartment on Caprica....)' base model. So all the Sharons know the backstory. All the Sharons know about the Chief, and all the Sharons know the inside-outs of the Colonial Military. Once they get out 'in the wind' they have no way of sharing their experiences with their identical models until they die, where then their individual consciousness would be added to the pool particular to their model. And maybe even not then, right? They keep talking about 'boxing' Boomer and Caprica-Six, so why on Earth would you want their memories added to the pristine pool? You'd just corrupt all future 'Sharons.'

So....Boomer would have no way of knowing about preggo-Sharon's love affair with Helo, the child, the experience on the Pegasus, none of it until preggo-Sharon dies, her memories added to the pool, or she's 'reborn' and they swap life stories. Likewise, Helo's-Sharon would have no memories of shooting Adama, trying to blow up Galactica or being killed during her perp walk by Callie.

Does that make any sense at all?

What I really didn't understand is the time line. 36 hours until a new D'anna Biers can be reborn and tell them about the events in the garage. Ten weeks for a new Boomer and Nine months?! for a new Caprica-Six.

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mrklixx

The only thing I could guess if that's the case is that they are getting "better" at it.

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thesupermikey

with 6 there may of been a delay b/c so many cylons where killed in the genocide

with boomer, they delay of moving data across such a massive distance?

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Willravel

Tonight is the night...90 minute part one of the season ender!!!!!!
http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/

thesupermikey

are you sure it is 90?
my onscreen guide says its just an hour

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Willravel

Oops, must be next weeks' that's 90 minutes.

japhyryder

It was a pretty good episode nothing to memorable though

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Willravel

The election has my complete and undivided attention, or at least it did until the episode ended with Starbusk under fire. Yikes.

I have to wonder what the show will be like if VP Baltar actually wins the election. Is the planet a trap....probably. Are the voters in the fleet almost as stupid as American voters? Yes, it apprears so. Don't vote for reality...vote for hope! But I digress.

Am I the only one who thinks that Dean Stockwell used zigggy to figure out that CPO Tyrol might be a cylon?

Mondak

So from the preview it looks like we get president Baltar. So what crazy thing can they spring on us that they have not already? All kinds of references to how much of a cliff hanger this thing is going to be next week, but though to figure out.

My thing doesn't seem to fit the story line so far so I will share it. I keep going back to the feeling that Roslyn has that we have been here before and we will be here again. While some details keep changing (Starbuck a woman etc.) they are stuck in a millennia spanning Groundhog Day scenario. Is that what they find out in the final episode?

I never look at the Podcasts or any of that, but this week they had a spoiler warning on them so maybe you guys already know what is up. If so, don't wreck it. If not, lets throw some theories out there and see what sticks.

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Mondak

Great reference. I love it. Since I am the Mcarthy of Cylonism, Stockwell is a Cylon. Bet on it.

By the way - as soon as they "use up" all 12 skin jobs, the Cylons prolly will just make a breakthrough to make some more I figure. Unless there is some signifigance to 12 (like the 13 tribes or something and the 12th is ... I dunno). Either way, I figure there is an out.

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ARTHUR SCHOPENHAUER (1788-1860)

Willravel

Cylon 13 will turn up when they find earth....and finding earth WILL NOT be the end of the series. The earth thing opens up millions of possibilities....maybe earth has already been colonized by cylons, and the earthlings are having a similar problem with cylons following them everywhere...or maybe the battlestar and fleet show up, and it's durring the 16th century on earth...or maybe they show up and we have detryoed ourselves with nukes....or maybe we are hundreds of years AHEAD of the colonies as far as tech and we are able to have a full out war with the cylons in which we're not outnumbered and outgunned....or the battlestar comes across the Enterprise NCC1701-D...or (and this one is my favorite) it's an exact duplicate of the Galactica 1980 series, so it's really cheesy and stupid...or earth has made an alliance with the cylons and is a fat trap for the fleet....etc.

I also believe that Dean Stockwell is the most likely of all the current cast of being a cylon (besides people who we already know are cylons).

I would love to see the cylons fuck with Baltar by creating a cylon duplicate of him, despite his being human...just to shake things up. BTW, I think Ronald D. Moore is the best kind of genius; the kind that smokes, drinks, and swears. Reminds me of Samuel Clemens.

guthmund

No spoilers, I'm afraid. There was the general spoiler thing about all the podcasts, but nothing particular to this episode. So, no worries there.

Dean Stockwell...the priest who doesn't believe in the 'power of prayer.' How great must that character be to play? I like Stockwell a lot and I'm glad he's on the show, if only for a short time. He was probably the only reason I stuck with Quantum Leap as long as I did.

Not much to say about this episode other than I think the writing has picked back up. Tyrol is probably one of my favorite characters on the show and it's nice to see him get some time on screen if only to inadvertently beat the crap out of Cally.

Moore, via the podcast, mentioned that the finale next week (90 minutes, woot!) is definitely going to stir some shit up. He didn't say what exactly, but he mentioned a number of times that it's going to be controversal. Throwing caution to the wind and letting it all ride or hang out there or something to that effect.

I wonder what's going to happen...I can't wait until next week even though it's the end of the season.

If Baltar becomes President (and it looks like he does) what the hell happens to Roslin? I can't imagine she'd have a place in his government, eh?

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Willravel

Roslin loses and spills the beans on Baltar and Caprica Six.

Mondak

She marries Adama and her Cylon-rejuvenated uterus pumps out a kid who grows up and murders Baltar.

I dunno, but you figure it like this: time for another civil war / Secession scenario (last split was Adama / Roslin). No way they let that shifty Cylon-toadie really run things here. Adama goes back to Marshal law and ...naw these guys are too creative to do that again.

Maybe look at it like this: why would we dedicate a bunch of time to Chief now. I mean if he is just on a path of normal ol' self discovery, then why not wait to flesh that out until next season? That makes two possibilities stand out to me:

- Cheif has some huge role to play in the crazy ending of the season
- They needed a reason to introduce Dean Stockwell as Brother Cavell who will play said huge role.

Cheif has done a lot lately and the only argument that I can come up with to say he is going to have a major role is the stuff that MomSharon said about - what was it - darkness or evil approching. He is the first to experience the evil.

Now I think it is more likely that Cheif's problems were a vehicle for injecting Cavell. I think I read something about the Pegasus being one of the last episodes they will do from the old series. That being said, maybe there is some kind of Count Iblis thing going on here. Prolly not.

Instead, maybe Cavell has something to do with revealing the "it will happen again" aspect that I was talking about above. Genesis of the Cylons in some way perhaps instead. I don't know how clear they have been on who made 'em in the first place and how closely related they are to the tribes.


One final unrelated thought: do skin jobs age? How come we don't see a Six in her 40s or an 18 year old one (bet she would be hot and crazy in bed!)?

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guthmund

Sure, but who, other than Adama and the like, are going to believe her?

"Well, President Roslin, how do you feel about losing the election to that rather good-looking (and charming) Gaius Baltar? Is there anything he can't do and do well?"

"Um...wait.. Baltar has colluded with the Cylons...I saw him with a known agent before all hell broke loose....yeah....that's the ticket..."

Like Mondak said...another Civil War? To be honest the first (whatever you want to call it) wasn't really all that interesting. Moore seems really nervous about next week's show. I can't imagine his heart would be all a flutter over a story he's already tread.

Two excellent points. At first, I thought the only real reason to bring Tyrol back was for something big and disturbing. He kind of freaked out a bit on Kobol, he's been kind of freaking out on the deck...just a reason to use a likeable character and explore some of the more disturbing shit. He's likeable, which makes his actions that much harder to watch, but also easier to forgive. But you're probably right...one of them probably has a rather signficant role to play in the finale.

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Mondak

Ok then. Now that we are on the same page - what does the good Brother have to reveal to us? I like my Groundhog Day loop thing, but I want to know what you all think.

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mrklixx

Fellas, we already have cylon 13............gaga googoo.

And all I can say is if they find Earth, I hope to the gods they have flying motorcycles.

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Willravel

Who else matters? Rosilin is still the president, and Adama is the Admiral. These people are in the highest positions in the fleet, and they would have the ear of EVERYONE. All the president needs to do is contact the radical religious ppl....


Nah, it's half cylon...we don't even know if it's resurectable.
GODS YES.

guthmund

Maybe...maybe not.

If President George W. Bush stood up in 2007 and said that he believes the two candidates in the upcoming election have colluded with terrorists and you shouldn't vote for them, would you take him seriously? Especially if all he offered as 'proof' was the recollection of a some vague memory while he was in the middle of a major medical procedure?

Worse yet, if after the election, President Bush said he couldn't stand aside because the winner was a known terrorist accomplice? How long do you imagine President Bush could manage to hold on to his position even if he called out "the radical religious ppl?"

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guthmund

I really have no idea.

I like the Groundhog idea, but I don't think he'll use it. It was kind of the thing for Carnivale on HBO, which Moore worked on for a while. I can't imagine he'd want to travel down that road again...unless..he thinks he can do it better now that he's in charge.

How about this? Roslin is accidentally pushed out an airlock where she discovers, thanks to her recent infusion of super-Cylon baby blood, that she has superhero like powers. She annoints herself as "The Prophet" and solves crime in the fleet.

You know what I'd really like to see? I'd like to see Sharon get tossed out an airlock. I'd like to see Tyrol do it. Maybe some misguided attempt to cleanse himself of his demons. Or maybe, Roslin could do it. Maybe she doesn't want Baltar to get his hands on a Cylon....period.

So, to sum up...superhero powers for Roslin or Sharon tossed out an airlock.

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Willravel

Diference between Bush and Rosilin: the people of the fleet trust Rosilin. Fewer and fewer people trust Bush.

thesupermikey

^^^
either of those work for me!

if i had to put money on it, it would say the neither canidate had a desisive victory, roslen calls out Baltar and is cylon loving ass, 'Pegisis Six' and "Baltar's Head Six" get Batlar to declar himself the winner with the help of of the Nuke.

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guthmund

Baltar's offering them the promised land...well, not quite, but, you know...good enough. He's offered them the land, the sky and a reasonable explanation for the expectation of safety. Roslin's offered nothing but the promise of cold, lonely space and the faint promise of prophecy. So, they may trust Roslin, but not enough to give up the dream of homesteading...unless she can give them unconditional proof of his collusion, which she really can't...

I mean, that is if Baltar is indeed the new President of the Colonies...

Now there you go! I wonder where that pesky ol' nuke has been these past few weeks? Not to mention Pegasus Six, who seems a bit hotter than Baltar's Six....maybe it's the tanktops...

By the way...

It appears my dreams of pushing Cylons out of airlocks is all for naught...

Spoiler: Take this for what you will, but word around the scifi boards is that the big, earth-shattering, out on a limb thing next week is Moore is jumping the series' timeline ahead one year. Take it for what it's worth...there are also some pictures floating around out there..I guess, to prove that Moore is indeed jumping forward, but I haven't seen anything....definitive.

Like I said, take it for what you will. I prefer to see how it plays out before I get my knickers in a wad.

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Willravel

I don't want to get too political here (tilted politics can be the debil), but I would say that they trust her, but they are going nuts living in space ships.
I'd vote for him just to see thing to to hell in a hand basket.

Spoiler: Well that's scary news. If they do shoot forward one year, this could mean that Earth is on for next season. Frankly, I'd prefer to see the whole story of President Baltar, though. Skipping that much would deprive Baltar fans of more awkward moments when Six mucks with him.

crossova

but who would believe her and what proof would she have?

crossova

i'd say maybe an hour or two before the official inauguration of the new president began