The Definative Matrix Revolutions Speculation Thread - Spoilers definately inside - Page 8 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Captain_Murphy · 11-10-2003, 02:51 PM

My main problem is the direction the movie took. Originally, the whole idea was a war between machines and men. All of a sudden the crux becomes Neo deleting a virus (Smith) from the matrix. Am I the only one who thinks the machines could have handled this on their own? I suppose it could be argued that Neo's sacrifice was taken as a peace offering to the machines, but it was never presented as such in the movie.

As for "Reloaded" the only problem I had with it was the pretentiousness. It actually took me several viewings before I could look past the "we are soooooo cool" presentation and pay attention to what was actually going on.

Lastly, anyone else think the architect looks like Colonel Sanders?

Moobie · 11-10-2003, 02:56 PM

Do you mean "weren't" as far as I know there weren't EMP's all over Zion because they would destroy everything electrical around them. Not only the enemy, but everything else that you wanted to keep. Besides most of the large EMP's they had were mobile on the ships and Bane/Smith took care of most of them during Reloaded. Another reason is that perhaps Zion was a little unprepared for the onslaught and an EMP generator may not be readily portable or easy to make. Poor/overly optimistic planning probably. No one could have known the power and numbers that the machines were going to send.

Just a guess.

CSflim · 11-10-2003, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Captain_Murphy
Lastly, anyone else think the architect looks like Colonel Sanders?

Yup! I was expecting him to offer Neo a Mega Bucket, before lauching into his speech!

Moobie · 11-10-2003, 03:01 PM

I thought his name was Colonel Sanders... did I miss something?

ratbastid · 11-10-2003, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BuddyHawks
The major problem I have with Revolutions is the incorperation of the video game plot with the movie. I'm talking about Niobe going to see the Oracle. OK, I wish I could see that. What?, I have to play a crappy video game ( even crappier on the PC) for hours to see this? No thanks. While I'm glad that they at least told us what the Oracle said to Niobe, It just dosn't seem right.

She's a secondary character. Deal.

Captain_Murphy · 11-10-2003, 03:14 PM

Another thing...

Before I went to see "Revolutions" I watched the first 2 back to back. Did anyone else notice that the wall of TV screens that showed Neo in the interrogation room (from "The Matrix") office looked just like the wall of screens in the architect's room?

(Please forgive if this has already been mentioned.)

ratbastid · 11-10-2003, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BuddyHawks
Did anyone else get goosebumbs when the Logos broke the clouds and they saw the sun? Great scene!

Oh MAN that was cool. The way that scene was paced was just brilliant. She's climbing, under heavy attack, pulling up hard, lightning starts zapping the ship, sentinels start falling off, and then.... silence, blue sky, the sun. Light climbs her face, dances there for a second as the ship stalls out. She whispers, "Beautiful." And then they're falling.. Right back down into Hell. GORGEOUS scene.

Quote:

Originally posted by CSflim
So when Neo allowed himself to be taken over by Smith, a similar thing happened....EXCEPT, Neo was jacked directly into the "uber-machine" (didn't catch its name if there was one), so that meant Smith was also directly attached to the machine, alowing them to do some anti-virus magic, and get rid of Smith and all of the others.

That was my read too. It wasn't that Neo cancelled Smith, but that by sacrificing himself to Smith, he opened Smith up to attack from That Spikey Thing (don't think we heard a name).

People seem to have missed the (ahem) extent to which Smith had taken over The Matrix, by the way. All those buildings they're flying around during the fight had leeelte eeety beeety Smiths in all the windows.... Everything--human and program--had been taken over.

ratbastid · 11-10-2003, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Captain_Murphy
Did anyone else notice that the wall of TV screens that showed Neo in the interrogation room (from "The Matrix") office looked just like the wall of screens in the architect's room?

Wow! Good eye!

Moobie · 11-10-2003, 05:36 PM

Yeah I noticed the view from the Architect's room the other night for the first time too. It's also interesting that we get to see that right at the time that Neo has to make his biggest choice, whether to aid the machines or fight them.... hmmm.... maybe that was planned? Perhaps the brothers had some of this thought out before hand....

Neo was not offering his death in exchange for peace. And the whole point was that the machines were not able to handle Smith on their own. The scene in Reloaded where Smith absorbs the agent that walked in on the Neo/Smith fight shows that the machines were just as vulnerable. Hell, Smith just walks in and takes over The Oracle, Agents, Seraph, almost got Morpheous too. Which shows that no one is safe from him. He can take over humans in the real world... probably could take over machines too.

As ratbastid pointed out the buildings were full of Smiths. I would hazard to guess the reason that Revolutions takes place in the Real World as opposed to the Matrix is that there's no one left in the Matrix but Smith. Think about it... He can fly, he's invulnerable, there's thousands of him, he's powermad... how long would it take him to take over every man, woman, child, and program?

BuddyHawks · 11-10-2003, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ratbastid

People seem to have missed the (ahem) extent to which Smith had taken over The Matrix, by the way. All those buildings they're flying around during the fight had leeelte eeety beeety Smiths in all the windows.... Everything--human and program--had been taken over.

As the Smith's were being killed, we "zoomed out" quite a long way and were able to see millions of Smiths bursting into white light. Yeah, seemed like the whole Matrix was taken over and concentrated there.

Moobie · 11-10-2003, 05:57 PM

BuddyHawks,

Good call, I forgot about that scene, where the camera zooms to show the whole of the Matrix, and all we see are dot's of white on black. Yeah, that's pretty much saying "there ain't nobody left but Smith".

Captain_Murphy · 11-10-2003, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Moobie
Neo was not offering his death in exchange for peace. And the whole point was that the machines were not able to handle Smith on their own.

Yeah, I got that, but still, doesn't it seem that Smith's takeover of the matrix (as the architect would say) "is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control". And more importantly, should't I be working right now instead of speculating on a more realistic finish to a work of fiction?

Lasereth · 11-10-2003, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BuddyHawks
Did anyone else get goosebumbs when the Logos broke the clouds and they saw the sun? Great scene!

That was possibly the best scene in the movie. Trinity finally got to see the real sun and sky before her death.

-Lasereth

Moobie · 11-10-2003, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Captain_Murphy
"is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control"

I'm tired, which part of the movie, or which movie for that matter, did the Colonel say that? Was it in reference to Smith? I don't remeber him ever saying anything about Smith.

Captain_Murphy · 11-10-2003, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Moobie
I'm tired, which part of the movie, or which movie for that matter, did the Colonel say that? Was it in reference to Smith? I don't remeber him ever saying anything about Smith.

The architect said that about Neo. I'm just speculating that a contingency plan for virus like activity should also be in place, especially consideing this is the 6th version of the matrix. Actually, I'm just avoiding doing my job.

On a side note, anyone know where I can get a picture of the architect? I wanna photoshop him into the KFC logo for my website.

Mr.Deflok · 11-10-2003, 08:07 PM

This is really bugging me people, spell his name correctly:
S-E-R-A-P-H

Nikilidstrom · 11-10-2003, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lasereth
That was possibly the best scene in the movie. Trinity finally got to see the real sun and sky before her death.

-Lasereth

This was the best scene in the entire movie, and sadly, the very instant I realized Trinity was going to die. I knew Neo was going to have to sacrifice himself, but I had never considered what would happen to Trinity. The was definitely an amazing scene though.

CSflim · 11-11-2003, 03:09 AM

I wasn't expecting to see Percephone on good terms with The Merovengian after her betrayl of him in Reloaded. But then again, we never really got the impression that she was with him out of any kind of choice...

I missed the twins in revolutions. I had heard that they were appearing in it again. Pity! They ruled.

And a single scene for everybody's favourite pompous frenchman just wasn't enough!

diergray · 11-11-2003, 05:18 AM

Didn't Neo die at the end of the first Matrix movie and come back? What makes everyone think he is actually dead?

Also, I thought that the destruction of all the humans and the matrix was an acceptable alternative when Neo chose to save Trinity. (at least that is what I thought the architect more or less said LOL). Why didnt the machines simply shut the matrix down thus destroying Smith and everyone else.

supersix2 · 11-11-2003, 07:10 AM

The machines didn't shut down the matrix because that would bring about thier end anyway. Plus I don't think they were aware to the full extent of the problems Smith was causing.

Moobie · 11-11-2003, 07:38 AM

I think supersix2 might have it right there, we all assume that the machines had complete and total control of the Matrix, but that's not true. You've got the Merv running around, the Trainman (obviously not a sanctioned program), even the Oracle was rouge, there are all of these programs running around the Matrix unknown/hidden from the machines, which means the machines did not have total control over the Matrix, which is probably why Smith was able to mess everything up the way he did.

Why didn't they just shut down the Matrix and kill Smith? Here's a thought.... The Machines weren't ready to destroy their power supply yet. The Architect mentioned that "There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept." when he was talking about Neo choosing the other door and destroying the Matrix. There's a couple of possibilities here, either the Architect was bluffing, which I doubt, or do you think that they'd calculated that if the One ever chose the other door how long they'd have before the Matrix destroyed itself.

I think that the machines had a projection of how long they would have before the Matrix destroyed itself and had contingency plans for surviving the coming power shortage/dark age, but being that they were machines I'll bet they had a fixed timeline in which to enact these contingency plans. Smith was a surprise to them, they had not calculated the possibility of him. Smith was getting ready to destroy/crash the Matrix far faster than the machines were ready for. This was why they didn't just pull the plug. They were waiting as long as possible.

Make any sense?

cartmen34 · 11-11-2003, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Moobie

As ratbastid pointed out the buildings were full of Smiths. I would hazard to guess the reason that Revolutions takes place in the Real World as opposed to the Matrix is that there's no one left in the Matrix but Smith. Think about it... He can fly, he's invulnerable, there's thousands of him, he's powermad... how long would it take him to take over every man, woman, child, and program?

Also what we saw, for a brief moment, the matrix "resetting" itself. It's the scene where the cat is walking up to the little girl. It was the machines returning all of the people smith took over....setting the matrix back to the way it was before this whole process started up.

Moobie · 11-11-2003, 08:56 AM

Déjà vu

ratbastid · 11-11-2003, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CSflim
I wasn't expecting to see Percephone on good terms with The Merovengian after her betrayl of him in Reloaded.

I wasn't expecting to see *ahem* so much of Persephone!

lurkette pointed this out, and she's exactly right. You had this beautifully framed two-shot of her and the Merovingian, all slick and glamorous. And where did your eyes go?

Wingless · 11-11-2003, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by diergray
Didn't Neo die at the end of the first Matrix movie and come back? What makes everyone think he is actually dead?

His vital signs in the real world recorded him as being dead. The Agents also checked again and they also took him in as being dead. Now connecting this with the Biblical symbolism, Neo had to die and come back; be resurrected.

Moobie · 11-11-2003, 01:09 PM

Here's a question I haven't quite figured out yet... At the end of Revolutions the Architect is talking to the Oracle and mentions something like "you play a dangerous game" which verifies to me that she's the real instigator of this revolution. (Neo chose the other door because of his love for Trinity, which the Oracle kind of played matchmaker in setting up)

But if Smith had not been in the equation everything would have turned out different. Neo would not have been able to negotiate with the machines to take out Smith in exchange for peace. So the machines would have just killed everyone and both worlds would have been wiped out.

So does that mean that the Oracle knew or instigated the Smith virus? If she had anything to do with it what influence can you think of? I'm drawing a blank. If she had nothing to do with Smith, then she was playing a high stakes game with nothing in her hand. Which seems kinda stupid.

redravin40 · 11-11-2003, 01:56 PM

The Oracle talked about making choices when you knew what the result would be.
With the past Neos, she saw that Smith could take over and ran the risk of not stopping him.
He seemed surprised that he was able to take her over.

supersix2 · 11-11-2003, 07:59 PM

I think I figured out what the deal on Smith is.
Ok in the Matrix (the first movie) the Oracle told Neo that either he or Morpheous would have to day and he would have to make that choice. So when Morpheus was captured Neo went and rescued him, Neo then died. But as a fluke he came back and killed Smith, which started the whole Smith going crazy thing. It is deeper than that though. The Oracle wasn't wrong when she said that either Morpheus or Neo must die because in the past Matrixes Morpheus did die and Neo never fought Smith like he did so Smith never went crazy and took over the Matrix. In Reloaded, Smith explains that Neo freed Smith in that fight between them in the Matrix.
Having said that, the dangerous game the Architect was referring to, I believe is how the Oracle chooses to help the humans. After all, knowing too much about your fate can be bad and actually do more harm than good. Example being how Neo chose to fight Smith which caused Smith to go rouge.
Remember, the Oracle is a program that was designed to fix the bug in the Matrix. As stated in Reloaded, when programs become obsolete they are either deleted or given the choice to live in the Matrix. Obviously most programs choose to live in the Matrix. The programs can then live thier lives how they wish. Most of them, it seems live high class lives in organized syndicates. The Oracle, however chose to help the humans. Because of that she played a dangerous game in being hunted by Agents and the other programs. Thats why Seriph defended her.
Ok, I think I was going to say more but my brain hurts now and I can't think. I might have more later. Feel free to comment.

Moobie · 11-12-2003, 01:01 PM

I'm not sure if the "dangerous game" the Architect was refering to was the Oracle's aiding of humans, because I was under the impression that she had also helped the previous Ones. So she'd always helped the humans. That was her purpose. She allowed them to have a choice out of the Matrix, she was the gateway, so to speak.

I'm thinking that the Architect was talking about her messing with the established order of events. I think it's apparent that the previous 5 Ones were never in love, nor (I think) did any of them "die" like Neo did. The Oracle set that all up. If not for the Oracle telling Morpheus that he would find the One someone else, possibly with less conviction/faith, would have. If not for the Oracle telling Neo that one of them would die/you are not the One, then Neo would not have gone in and tried to save Morpheus. Now you just have to believe that some how she knew that Neo would resurect himself, and that he would kill Smith (thus creating the Smith Virus), maybe she saw this was destined to happen once the other events were in place. By setting all of the players, Morpheus, Trinity and Neo, the Oracle was able to direct the One away from the door leading to the Source, which probably would have allowed Smith to kill everyone, and create something that was different from the previous 5 iterations of the One... Peace/Hope/Change.

So the Oracle's "dangerous game" was betting the future of mankind and machinekind on the choices of three humans.

I hope that makes sense. I didn't think about how far back the Oracle's meddling went until you brought it up supersix, but I think I got it now.

t3m3st · 11-12-2003, 02:05 PM

Poweraid ads wtf!
But I thought the Tasty Wheat ones were a nice touch

Spartak · 11-12-2003, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wingless
His vital signs in the real world recorded him as being dead. The Agents also checked again and they also took him in as being dead. Now connecting this with the Biblical symbolism, Neo had to die and come back; be resurrected.

My theory on this:

The Oracle says that Neo is not the one, but "maybe in your next life". This is not quite as literal as it seems.

I think that cookie that she gave him, actually disguised some sort of code (think Merovingian and the orgasm cake), that would make Neo aware of his powers as The One and also be able to see the matrix code (when she gives him the cookie she comments that Neo would feel right as rain, and rain in the Matrix trilogy is closely associated with the matrix code). Now heres a snag, in order for the code to work, Neo has to be rebooted. First he is "shut down" by Smith, then he powers back up, with the cookie code active, and thus: can see the matrix, can destroy Smith (or at the very least release him), stop bullets, fly and ultimately realise that he is the one.

Also looking back at the first film, when Smith takes out his earpiece and starts talking to Morpheus, I think at that point he wanted the codes to Zion not for the sake of the machines, but to replicate himself quicker both in the Matrix (no humans could oppose him), and in the real world (ala Bane).

Hmm, looks like a bit of a rant, oh well :]

Moobie · 11-13-2003, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spartak
My theory on this:

The Oracle says that Neo is not the one, but "maybe in your next life". This is not quite as literal as it seems.

I think that cookie that she gave him, actually disguised some sort of code (think Merovingian and the orgasm cake), that would make Neo aware of his powers as The One and also be able to see the matrix code (when she gives him the cookie she comments that Neo would feel right as rain, and rain in the Matrix trilogy is closely associated with the matrix code). Now heres a snag, in order for the code to work, Neo has to be rebooted. First he is "shut down" by Smith, then he powers back up, with the cookie code active, and thus: can see the matrix, can destroy Smith (or at the very least release him), stop bullets, fly and ultimately realise that he is the one.

Full marks! I hadn't even thought about that. Wow, that's the coolest bit o' speculation I think I've read in this whole thread. That makes so much sense it's scary.

BuddyHawks · 11-13-2003, 07:45 AM

I also think something happend when Persephone put on lipstick and kissed Neo...something to do with code. I think you could hear some Matrix noise when their lips touched.

Nikilidstrom · 11-13-2003, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BuddyHawks
I also think something happend when Persephone put on lipstick and kissed Neo...something to do with code. I think you could hear some Matrix noise when their lips touched.

I caught that to, that is why I thought Merv and Persephone would play a bigger part in Revolutions. You could definitely hear the electronic/static sound effect when they kissed.

Pacifier · 11-13-2003, 01:29 PM

I'm not really satisfied with Revolutions, i feels kind of "empty". Part2 and especially Part1 where full of some interesting dialouges and somehow Part3 is missing this.

I was also disappointed with the end, I mean what kind of "victory" was that?
Most humans are still trapped in the matrix, they are only allowed to escape if the find the way out be themself. Any "assistance" by morpheus and Zion could be interpreted as act of war by the machines. The mchines are still breeding humans as their source of energy, they can not allow too many humans to escape the matrix. So I think the "end" is more of a, very instable "cease fire".

The only hope is that the concept of "love" which was shown by the parents of Sati could finally bring the machines to cooperate with the humans.
But all in all I expected more from "the one"

Sun Tzu · 11-14-2003, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pacifier
I'm not really satisfied with Revolutions, i feels kind of "empty". Part2 and especially Part1 where full of some interesting dialouges and somehow Part3 is missing this.

I was also disappointed with the end, I mean what kind of "victory" was that?
Most humans are still trapped in the matrix, they are only allowed to escape if the find the way out be themself. Any "assistance" by morpheus and Zion could be interpreted as act of war by the machines. The mchines are still breeding humans as their source of energy, they can not allow too many humans to escape the matrix. So I think the "end" is more of a, very instable "cease fire".

The only hope is that the concept of "love" which was shown by the parents of Sati could finally bring the machines to cooperate with the humans.
But all in all I expected more from "the one"

Was it stated only the ones that could find their way out? I thought all humans were going to be freed; which didnt make any sense becasue of the power issue.

Just a couple of quesitons some may have caught that I apparently missed:

1. I understand that machines dont lie; (the arch making the statement about giving his word), but its hard to accept that Neo entrusted that the machines would just "stop" after he beat Smith. The "mechanical entity" suddenly felt joy/honor/even/etc when New said "peace"? Those sentinels were right there and they had the humans beat. Did Neo die? Was he used as a trojan horse to destroy Smith? If so why would the machines stop?

2. Neo had powers in the real world: why? If he had that kind of power it seems nothing could stop him.

3. DId anyone catch in the 3 who desinged the Architech?

Pacifier · 11-14-2003, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sun Tzu
Was it stated only the ones that could find their way out? I thought all humans were going to be freed; which didnt make any sense becasue of the power issue.

The Oracle: What about the others?
The Architect: What others?
The Oracle: The ones that want out.
The Architect: Obviously they will be freed.
The Oracle: I have your word?
The Architect: What do you think I am? Human?

Those who dont want to be out will stay in the matrix, but to want out you first must know that you are inside the matrix

redlotuss9 · 11-14-2003, 08:35 AM

I just want to start out by saying that I'm a huge fan of the Matrix. It is my favorite movie ever. I just watched Revolutions and though I may be a bit biased, I can't say I was disspointed. I will say I think the Wachowski could have done better with what they had to work with. By "what they had to work with" I mean they had a great story line and premise, but I feel that they lost a bit of focus by the time the third movie came around. I have no problems with story lines taking an unexpected twist, but I feel like they started telling a story about Cinderella and ended up talking about Snow White, to emply a metaphor.

I'd just like to add that my favorite part in the Matrix Saga is in the second one where Neo fights all the Smiths. That was incredible.

Moobie · 11-14-2003, 08:38 AM

They wouldn't want to free everyone in the Matrix, because the majority of the people don't want to be freed. They're happy right were they are. The point is that if anyone figures out that the Matrix isn't real and wants out then they're free to leave. Also the machines are supposed to leave Zion alone. I would be more worried about the people in Zion having a grudge against the machines and ending the cease fire than the machines starting something.

Watch the Animatrix, especially the 2nd Renaissance, it gives some back story on how the machines think/behave. The machines aren't looking for a fight, and I doubt they really harbor prejudices like humans do. If man had given the machines any options they wouldn't have destroy us. But we attacked first and would not settle for peace. So they wiped us out. That was our fault.

You can leave the Matrix but you have to "believe". It's very analogous to religion, heaven and hell and all that. If you have faith you will be saved.

"Why would the machines stop? When they could just kill everyone?" They don't want to. They're logical beings. They'd rather not waste the time and energy and resources destroying Zion. There's good that can come of a man/machine alliance. They'd rather be friends than enemies. And if you think about it, the Matrix will always exist. I doubt they'll ever take it down. It's too useful of a tool. As long as there's a choice then it's not a prison.

I thought the ending was the only way that the movie could go and not be lame as hell. There's no way that the humans could have won. Yeah they could have fended off the machines attacking Zion, but more would have come, more than they could ever have beaten. Zion would eventually fall. And if Neo had just destroyed the machines then I don't think it would have ended with as many possibilities as it did. The truce and the death of Neo and all that it leaves open allow for a much more philosophical ending than would have been if Neo had just kicked the machines asses.

So if you wanted the Independence Day ending then yeah it probably was disappointing, and I'll admit that it still would have been a cool finish, but I can see why they went with the "deeper" ending.

Mr.Deflok · 11-14-2003, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Moobie
You can leave the Matrix but you have to "believe". It's very analogous to religion, heaven and hell and all that. If you have faith you will be saved.

I was never too fond on this concept in some religions but when you use it in this way it makes a lot more sense, thank you for enlightening my day.

11-10-2003, 02:56 PM	#282 (permalink)
Moobie Insane Location: baked beans	Do you mean "weren't" as far as I know there weren't EMP's all over Zion because they would destroy everything electrical around them. Not only the enemy, but everything else that you wanted to keep. Besides most of the large EMP's they had were mobile on the ships and Bane/Smith took care of most of them during Reloaded. Another reason is that perhaps Zion was a little unprepared for the onslaught and an EMP generator may not be readily portable or easy to make. Poor/overly optimistic planning probably. No one could have known the power and numbers that the machines were going to send. Just a guess. __________________ Obscenity is the crutch of inarticulate motherfuckers. We like money. Give us your money you stupid consumer whore.

11-10-2003, 03:01 PM	#284 (permalink)
Moobie Insane Location: baked beans	I thought his name was Colonel Sanders... did I miss something? __________________ Obscenity is the crutch of inarticulate motherfuckers. We like money. Give us your money you stupid consumer whore.

11-10-2003, 05:36 PM	#289 (permalink)
Moobie Insane Location: baked beans	Yeah I noticed the view from the Architect's room the other night for the first time too. It's also interesting that we get to see that right at the time that Neo has to make his biggest choice, whether to aid the machines or fight them.... hmmm.... maybe that was planned? Perhaps the brothers had some of this thought out before hand.... Neo was not offering his death in exchange for peace. And the whole point was that the machines were not able to handle Smith on their own. The scene in Reloaded where Smith absorbs the agent that walked in on the Neo/Smith fight shows that the machines were just as vulnerable. Hell, Smith just walks in and takes over The Oracle, Agents, Seraph, almost got Morpheous too. Which shows that no one is safe from him. He can take over humans in the real world... probably could take over machines too. As ratbastid pointed out the buildings were full of Smiths. I would hazard to guess the reason that Revolutions takes place in the Real World as opposed to the Matrix is that there's no one left in the Matrix but Smith. Think about it... He can fly, he's invulnerable, there's thousands of him, he's powermad... how long would it take him to take over every man, woman, child, and program? __________________ Obscenity is the crutch of inarticulate motherfuckers. We like money. Give us your money you stupid consumer whore. Last edited by Moobie; 11-12-2003 at 06:20 AM..

11-10-2003, 05:57 PM	#291 (permalink)
Moobie Insane Location: baked beans	BuddyHawks, Good call, I forgot about that scene, where the camera zooms to show the whole of the Matrix, and all we see are dot's of white on black. Yeah, that's pretty much saying "there ain't nobody left but Smith". __________________ Obscenity is the crutch of inarticulate motherfuckers. We like money. Give us your money you stupid consumer whore.

11-11-2003, 03:09 AM	#298 (permalink)
CSflim Sky Piercer Location: Ireland	I wasn't expecting to see Percephone on good terms with The Merovengian after her betrayl of him in Reloaded. But then again, we never really got the impression that she was with him out of any kind of choice... I missed the twins in revolutions. I had heard that they were appearing in it again. Pity! They ruled. And a single scene for everybody's favourite pompous frenchman just wasn't enough! __________________

11-10-2003, 02:51 PM	#281 (permalink)
Captain_Murphy Upright Location: Near Pittsburgh	My main problem is the direction the movie took. Originally, the whole idea was a war between machines and men. All of a sudden the crux becomes Neo deleting a virus (Smith) from the matrix. Am I the only one who thinks the machines could have handled this on their own? I suppose it could be argued that Neo's sacrifice was taken as a peace offering to the machines, but it was never presented as such in the movie. As for "Reloaded" the only problem I had with it was the pretentiousness. It actually took me several viewings before I could look past the "we are soooooo cool" presentation and pay attention to what was actually going on. Lastly, anyone else think the architect looks like Colonel Sanders?

11-10-2003, 03:14 PM	#286 (permalink)
Captain_Murphy Upright Location: Near Pittsburgh	Another thing... Before I went to see "Revolutions" I watched the first 2 back to back. Did anyone else notice that the wall of TV screens that showed Neo in the interrogation room (from "The Matrix") office looked just like the wall of screens in the architect's room? (Please forgive if this has already been mentioned.)

11-10-2003, 08:07 PM	#296 (permalink)
Mr.Deflok Blood + Fire Location: New Zealand	This is really bugging me people, spell his name correctly: S-E-R-A-P-H

11-11-2003, 05:18 AM	#299 (permalink)
diergray Psycho	Didn't Neo die at the end of the first Matrix movie and come back? What makes everyone think he is actually dead? Also, I thought that the destruction of all the humans and the matrix was an acceptable alternative when Neo chose to save Trinity. (at least that is what I thought the architect more or less said LOL). Why didnt the machines simply shut the matrix down thus destroying Smith and everyone else. __________________ "Behold the turtle. He makes progress only when he sticks his neck out.” ~ James Bryant Conant

11-11-2003, 07:10 AM	#300 (permalink)
supersix2 Insane Location: Houston	The machines didn't shut down the matrix because that would bring about thier end anyway. Plus I don't think they were aware to the full extent of the problems Smith was causing.

11-11-2003, 07:38 AM	#301 (permalink)
Moobie Insane Location: baked beans	I think supersix2 might have it right there, we all assume that the machines had complete and total control of the Matrix, but that's not true. You've got the Merv running around, the Trainman (obviously not a sanctioned program), even the Oracle was rouge, there are all of these programs running around the Matrix unknown/hidden from the machines, which means the machines did not have total control over the Matrix, which is probably why Smith was able to mess everything up the way he did. Why didn't they just shut down the Matrix and kill Smith? Here's a thought.... The Machines weren't ready to destroy their power supply yet. The Architect mentioned that "There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept." when he was talking about Neo choosing the other door and destroying the Matrix. There's a couple of possibilities here, either the Architect was bluffing, which I doubt, or do you think that they'd calculated that if the One ever chose the other door how long they'd have before the Matrix destroyed itself. I think that the machines had a projection of how long they would have before the Matrix destroyed itself and had contingency plans for surviving the coming power shortage/dark age, but being that they were machines I'll bet they had a fixed timeline in which to enact these contingency plans. Smith was a surprise to them, they had not calculated the possibility of him. Smith was getting ready to destroy/crash the Matrix far faster than the machines were ready for. This was why they didn't just pull the plug. They were waiting as long as possible. Make any sense? __________________ Obscenity is the crutch of inarticulate motherfuckers. We like money. Give us your money you stupid consumer whore.

11-11-2003, 08:56 AM	#303 (permalink)
Moobie Insane Location: baked beans	Déjà vu __________________ Obscenity is the crutch of inarticulate motherfuckers. We like money. Give us your money you stupid consumer whore.

11-11-2003, 01:09 PM	#306 (permalink)
Moobie Insane Location: baked beans	Here's a question I haven't quite figured out yet... At the end of Revolutions the Architect is talking to the Oracle and mentions something like "you play a dangerous game" which verifies to me that she's the real instigator of this revolution. (Neo chose the other door because of his love for Trinity, which the Oracle kind of played matchmaker in setting up) But if Smith had not been in the equation everything would have turned out different. Neo would not have been able to negotiate with the machines to take out Smith in exchange for peace. So the machines would have just killed everyone and both worlds would have been wiped out. So does that mean that the Oracle knew or instigated the Smith virus? If she had anything to do with it what influence can you think of? I'm drawing a blank. If she had nothing to do with Smith, then she was playing a high stakes game with nothing in her hand. Which seems kinda stupid. __________________ Obscenity is the crutch of inarticulate motherfuckers. We like money. Give us your money you stupid consumer whore. Last edited by Moobie; 11-11-2003 at 01:13 PM..

11-11-2003, 01:56 PM	#307 (permalink)
redravin40 Loser Location: With Jadzia	The Oracle talked about making choices when you knew what the result would be. With the past Neos, she saw that Smith could take over and ran the risk of not stopping him. He seemed surprised that he was able to take her over.

11-11-2003, 07:59 PM	#308 (permalink)
supersix2 Insane Location: Houston	I think I figured out what the deal on Smith is. Ok in the Matrix (the first movie) the Oracle told Neo that either he or Morpheous would have to day and he would have to make that choice. So when Morpheus was captured Neo went and rescued him, Neo then died. But as a fluke he came back and killed Smith, which started the whole Smith going crazy thing. It is deeper than that though. The Oracle wasn't wrong when she said that either Morpheus or Neo must die because in the past Matrixes Morpheus did die and Neo never fought Smith like he did so Smith never went crazy and took over the Matrix. In Reloaded, Smith explains that Neo freed Smith in that fight between them in the Matrix. Having said that, the dangerous game the Architect was referring to, I believe is how the Oracle chooses to help the humans. After all, knowing too much about your fate can be bad and actually do more harm than good. Example being how Neo chose to fight Smith which caused Smith to go rouge. Remember, the Oracle is a program that was designed to fix the bug in the Matrix. As stated in Reloaded, when programs become obsolete they are either deleted or given the choice to live in the Matrix. Obviously most programs choose to live in the Matrix. The programs can then live thier lives how they wish. Most of them, it seems live high class lives in organized syndicates. The Oracle, however chose to help the humans. Because of that she played a dangerous game in being hunted by Agents and the other programs. Thats why Seriph defended her. Ok, I think I was going to say more but my brain hurts now and I can't think. I might have more later. Feel free to comment.

11-12-2003, 01:01 PM	#309 (permalink)
Moobie Insane Location: baked beans	I'm not sure if the "dangerous game" the Architect was refering to was the Oracle's aiding of humans, because I was under the impression that she had also helped the previous Ones. So she'd always helped the humans. That was her purpose. She allowed them to have a choice out of the Matrix, she was the gateway, so to speak. I'm thinking that the Architect was talking about her messing with the established order of events. I think it's apparent that the previous 5 Ones were never in love, nor (I think) did any of them "die" like Neo did. The Oracle set that all up. If not for the Oracle telling Morpheus that he would find the One someone else, possibly with less conviction/faith, would have. If not for the Oracle telling Neo that one of them would die/you are not the One, then Neo would not have gone in and tried to save Morpheus. Now you just have to believe that some how she knew that Neo would resurect himself, and that he would kill Smith (thus creating the Smith Virus), maybe she saw this was destined to happen once the other events were in place. By setting all of the players, Morpheus, Trinity and Neo, the Oracle was able to direct the One away from the door leading to the Source, which probably would have allowed Smith to kill everyone, and create something that was different from the previous 5 iterations of the One... Peace/Hope/Change. So the Oracle's "dangerous game" was betting the future of mankind and machinekind on the choices of three humans. I hope that makes sense. I didn't think about how far back the Oracle's meddling went until you brought it up supersix, but I think I got it now. __________________ Obscenity is the crutch of inarticulate motherfuckers. We like money. Give us your money you stupid consumer whore. Last edited by Moobie; 11-12-2003 at 01:06 PM..

11-12-2003, 02:05 PM	#310 (permalink)
t3m3st Vroom! Location: Toronto	Poweraid ads wtf! But I thought the Tasty Wheat ones were a nice touch __________________ I do it for the rare drops

11-13-2003, 07:45 AM	#313 (permalink)
BuddyHawks Swashbuckling Location: Iowa...sometimes	I also think something happend when Persephone put on lipstick and kissed Neo...something to do with code. I think you could hear some Matrix noise when their lips touched. __________________ Watch More TV

11-13-2003, 01:29 PM	#315 (permalink)
Pacifier undead Location: Duisburg, Germany	I'm not really satisfied with Revolutions, i feels kind of "empty". Part2 and especially Part1 where full of some interesting dialouges and somehow Part3 is missing this. I was also disappointed with the end, I mean what kind of "victory" was that? Most humans are still trapped in the matrix, they are only allowed to escape if the find the way out be themself. Any "assistance" by morpheus and Zion could be interpreted as act of war by the machines. The mchines are still breeding humans as their source of energy, they can not allow too many humans to escape the matrix. So I think the "end" is more of a, very instable "cease fire". The only hope is that the concept of "love" which was shown by the parents of Sati could finally bring the machines to cooperate with the humans. But all in all I expected more from "the one" __________________ "It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death — Albert Einstein Last edited by Pacifier; 11-13-2003 at 01:31 PM..

11-14-2003, 08:35 AM	#318 (permalink)
redlotuss9 Tilted Location: Pennsylvania	I just want to start out by saying that I'm a huge fan of the Matrix. It is my favorite movie ever. I just watched Revolutions and though I may be a bit biased, I can't say I was disspointed. I will say I think the Wachowski could have done better with what they had to work with. By "what they had to work with" I mean they had a great story line and premise, but I feel that they lost a bit of focus by the time the third movie came around. I have no problems with story lines taking an unexpected twist, but I feel like they started telling a story about Cinderella and ended up talking about Snow White, to emply a metaphor. I'd just like to add that my favorite part in the Matrix Saga is in the second one where Neo fights all the Smiths. That was incredible.

11-14-2003, 08:38 AM	#319 (permalink)
Moobie Insane Location: baked beans	They wouldn't want to free everyone in the Matrix, because the majority of the people don't want to be freed. They're happy right were they are. The point is that if anyone figures out that the Matrix isn't real and wants out then they're free to leave. Also the machines are supposed to leave Zion alone. I would be more worried about the people in Zion having a grudge against the machines and ending the cease fire than the machines starting something. Watch the Animatrix, especially the 2nd Renaissance, it gives some back story on how the machines think/behave. The machines aren't looking for a fight, and I doubt they really harbor prejudices like humans do. If man had given the machines any options they wouldn't have destroy us. But we attacked first and would not settle for peace. So they wiped us out. That was our fault. You can leave the Matrix but you have to "believe". It's very analogous to religion, heaven and hell and all that. If you have faith you will be saved. "Why would the machines stop? When they could just kill everyone?" They don't want to. They're logical beings. They'd rather not waste the time and energy and resources destroying Zion. There's good that can come of a man/machine alliance. They'd rather be friends than enemies. And if you think about it, the Matrix will always exist. I doubt they'll ever take it down. It's too useful of a tool. As long as there's a choice then it's not a prison. I thought the ending was the only way that the movie could go and not be lame as hell. There's no way that the humans could have won. Yeah they could have fended off the machines attacking Zion, but more would have come, more than they could ever have beaten. Zion would eventually fall. And if Neo had just destroyed the machines then I don't think it would have ended with as many possibilities as it did. The truce and the death of Neo and all that it leaves open allow for a much more philosophical ending than would have been if Neo had just kicked the machines asses. So if you wanted the Independence Day ending then yeah it probably was disappointing, and I'll admit that it still would have been a cool finish, but I can see why they went with the "deeper" ending. __________________ Obscenity is the crutch of inarticulate motherfuckers. We like money. Give us your money you stupid consumer whore. Last edited by Moobie; 11-14-2003 at 08:41 AM..