The Definative Matrix Revolutions Speculation Thread - Spoilers definately inside - Page 4 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Telethon · 11-04-2003, 03:43 PM

Matrix is a trilogy and like all trilogies the first one is either really good, second is usually garbage and third is usually amazing

anti fishstick · 11-04-2003, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by World's King
Y'all are nerds.

amusing comment.
perhaps it's cool to be a nerd

i should dress up this time when i see it on wednesday (tomorrow) ...

THE MAC GOD · 11-04-2003, 04:49 PM

Nowadays everyone is a nerd in one degree or another...

BulletBob · 11-04-2003, 04:57 PM

9 am tommorow

Lasereth · 11-04-2003, 05:03 PM

Revolutions is getting mixed reviews. I'm tired of all of the same critics that hated Reloaded making Revolutions seem like crap. Hey critics, go watch Reloaded until you understand it and then review it. That's why I like Ebert -- he sees a movie once and then reviews it perfectly. He gave Matrix 3 stars out of 4, and Reloaded 3.5 stars out of 4. We'll see what Revolutions gets...since that'll probably be the only trustworthy review posted on the Internet.

-Lasereth

Radio Monk33 · 11-04-2003, 05:12 PM

w00t w00t. I got a 9:15 ticket for tommorow.

SO STOKED.

Derwood · 11-04-2003, 07:52 PM

The second one wasn't garbage, however.

Nor was Empire Strikes Back

Or The Two Towers

Need I go on?

Mr.Deflok · 11-04-2003, 08:00 PM

Or Superman II!

Lasereth · 11-04-2003, 08:07 PM

Reloaded will probably end up being the best of the three. It's better than the first one, so that's my guess right now. I suppose I'll find out after tomorrow!

-Lasereth

Moskie · 11-05-2003, 01:25 AM

Found a handful of reviews here:

Mark Caro of the Chicago Tribune
Atlanta Journal-Constitution by Steve Murray
Christpher Null at filmcritic.com
Michael Rechtshaffen of The Hollywood Reporter

Most of them have virtually nothing good to say about the movie. I don't think I'll be able to see the movie (in english, at least) anytime soon. I might resort to downloading it, we'll see. Anyway, I get from the reviews that Revolutions is everything I hated about Reloaded, only about three times worse.

And, please, the idea that people "don't get it" is tiresome. Reloaded was a bad movie. So much that happened in Reloaded was irrelevant to both the plot and to any theme they tried (yes, tried) to discuss. The fight scene with that asian dude (which ends with "You do not truly know someone until you fight them", gimmie a break), the huge fight scene with Agent Smith (which starts for no reason, and ends with Neo flying away, whoopdedoo), the twins, the French dude, kissing the French dude's girl... there's probably more, but it's been a while. All of these parts of Reloaded could have been either taken out or heavily altered, and you'd have the same exact movie (in terms of plot and theme). And having characters named "The Keymaker" and "The Architect" is juvenile. Why don't they just wear big signs that say "METAPHOR" while they're at it?

I've been wanting to get that rant off for a while

**added** I know some people are going to say that the parts I mentioned that could be taken out are relevant to some philosophical undertones/themes. That's all well and good, but a skill needed for good film-making is incoporating your themes into the plot well. This is where Reloaded failed. If you're going to discuss philosophy in a movie, fine, I think that's great. But take the time to create a plot and script where these themes are transparent, in that they jive with what's going on in the movie. The mere fact that philosophy is discussed or brought up isn't good enough.

THE MAC GOD · 11-05-2003, 03:37 AM

Welll, the good thing about the whole thing, is that you DON'T have to see it. There were a lot of bad reviews for both the first and second movies. I base it on my own thoughts and not someone else who gets paid to slam creative movies and only support sad, dreamry war movies.

Lasereth · 11-05-2003, 04:48 AM

Ebert gave Revolutions 3 stars out of 4 (the same score as the first Matrix). Looks like it's a killer! I can't wait to see it...only a few more hours!

-Lasereth

Derwood · 11-05-2003, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Moskie
Found a handful of reviews here:

Mark Caro of the Chicago Tribune
Atlanta Journal-Constitution by Steve Murray
Christpher Null at filmcritic.com
Michael Rechtshaffen of The Hollywood Reporter

Most of them have virtually nothing good to say about the movie. I don't think I'll be able to see the movie (in english, at least) anytime soon. I might resort to downloading it, we'll see. Anyway, I get from the reviews that Revolutions is everything I hated about Reloaded, only about three times worse.

And, please, the idea that people "don't get it" is tiresome. Reloaded was a bad movie. So much that happened in Reloaded was irrelevant to both the plot and to any theme they tried (yes, tried) to discuss. The fight scene with that asian dude (which ends with "You do not truly know someone until you fight them", gimmie a break), the huge fight scene with Agent Smith (which starts for no reason, and ends with Neo flying away, whoopdedoo), the twins, the French dude, kissing the French dude's girl... there's probably more, but it's been a while. All of these parts of Reloaded could have been either taken out or heavily altered, and you'd have the same exact movie (in terms of plot and theme). And having characters named "The Keymaker" and "The Architect" is juvenile. Why don't they just wear big signs that say "METAPHOR" while they're at it?

I've been wanting to get that rant off for a while

**added** I know some people are going to say that the parts I mentioned that could be taken out are relevant to some philosophical undertones/themes. That's all well and good, but a skill needed for good film-making is incoporating your themes into the plot well. This is where Reloaded failed. If you're going to discuss philosophy in a movie, fine, I think that's great. But take the time to create a plot and script where these themes are transparent, in that they jive with what's going on in the movie. The mere fact that philosophy is discussed or brought up isn't good enough.

While you are entitled to your opinion (and share those opinions with others on this board), perhaps you should reserve judgment until after you see Revolutions? Reloaded is only 1/2 of a movie, and perhaps those elements of Reloaded that seem cheesy/stupid/superflous will be explained/justified in Revolutions.

Lasereth · 11-05-2003, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Moskie
Found a handful of reviews here:

Mark Caro of the Chicago Tribune
Atlanta Journal-Constitution by Steve Murray
Christpher Null at filmcritic.com
Michael Rechtshaffen of The Hollywood Reporter

Most of them have virtually nothing good to say about the movie. I don't think I'll be able to see the movie (in english, at least) anytime soon. I might resort to downloading it, we'll see. Anyway, I get from the reviews that Revolutions is everything I hated about Reloaded, only about three times worse.

And, please, the idea that people "don't get it" is tiresome. Reloaded was a bad movie. So much that happened in Reloaded was irrelevant to both the plot and to any theme they tried (yes, tried) to discuss. The fight scene with that asian dude (which ends with "You do not truly know someone until you fight them", gimmie a break), the huge fight scene with Agent Smith (which starts for no reason, and ends with Neo flying away, whoopdedoo), the twins, the French dude, kissing the French dude's girl... there's probably more, but it's been a while. All of these parts of Reloaded could have been either taken out or heavily altered, and you'd have the same exact movie (in terms of plot and theme). And having characters named "The Keymaker" and "The Architect" is juvenile. Why don't they just wear big signs that say "METAPHOR" while they're at it?

I've been wanting to get that rant off for a while

**added** I know some people are going to say that the parts I mentioned that could be taken out are relevant to some philosophical undertones/themes. That's all well and good, but a skill needed for good film-making is incoporating your themes into the plot well. This is where Reloaded failed. If you're going to discuss philosophy in a movie, fine, I think that's great. But take the time to create a plot and script where these themes are transparent, in that they jive with what's going on in the movie. The mere fact that philosophy is discussed or brought up isn't good enough.

If you take out the parts that you mentioned, there wouldn't be a plot. The first Matrix started the theory that Neo was the One; Reloaded is finishing that theory. The Keymaker was the only way for Neo find out if he is the One, and the Merovingian (french guy) was the only way that they could get the Keymaker. If you took either one of those out, it ruins the plot of the first movie, and makes the entire trilogy useless.

The Smith vs Neo scene wasn't useless, either. Neo is the good guy and Smith is the bad guy. Good and evil. How can the entire plot the trilogy be useless? Are Neo and Smith expected to talk it out and write poetry? Neo flew away at the end of it because...well, he was getting his ass kicked at the end? Wouldn't you run from a fight you know you couldn't win?

Persephone (the Merovingian's wife) is basically longing for love again. Yes, she makes Neo kiss her, but guess what? Ghost and Niobe are also forced to kiss her in the side plots for her telling them vital information. She passes on info to the rebels, but only if she can be made to experience love again, something that the Merovingian can no longer give her.

The "asian guy fight" had a purpose as well. Seraph (the asian guy) isn't a human. He's a program. He's a program that is designed for guarding the Oracle. In other words, he holds the dutie of stopping agents and all other intruders that want her dead. The only way Seraph can tell who people really are is by fighting them. That's not so hard to believe...what if his programming can tell the true identity of people after combat? He fights other rebels as well when they need to see the Oracle (shown in the horrid videogame Enter the Matrix). That fight wasn't useless.

As for the Keymaker and Architect being named juvenile aliases, what else can you call two computer programs? Would it be better if they were named "BEFR(***XXMM)2045?" They have a name in the real world, as do all of the programs. If they were humans, it would be a different matter. The Twins are cast in Revolutions too, so I imagine that there will be some explanation of them in the sequel (aside from being the top bodyguards for the Merovingian).

Reloaded was an excellent movie, much better than the first one. Roger Ebert gave the first Matrix 3 stars and Reloaded 3.5 stars out of 4. He's one of the few critics that didn't want Reloaded to fail, and actually saw it for what it was worth. Just because a movie is different from the first doesn't make it suck. You have to remember that the Wachowskis had to make the first Matrix a type of movie that could be set up for sequels or end with no sequels (Warner Brothers told them this; if the first Matrix didn't sell good there wouldn't be sequels). If the Wachowskis knew ahead of time that people would love the Matrix so much, I imagine it would be more like Reloaded. I just keep getting the feeling that if someone liked the first Matrix and didn't like Reloaded then they watched the first one for the wrong reasons...or better yet, expected something different from Reloaded and wasn't willing to like change. I knew it would be different, and I agree that the first time I saw it I was "weirded out," but the more thought and viewings I gave Reloaded, the more I liked it. Now I like it much, much more than I ever liked the first one.

-Lasereth

Cynthetiq · 11-05-2003, 08:09 AM

Watched Revolutions at a screening last night... (jeez i've been really lucky this year... 4 blockbusters as screeners)

interesting... was like watching... okay no spoilers...

but IMHO it wasn't as good as the first two as far as MATRIX concepts are concerned, but it was entertaining.

I'm interested in discussing it once it's been seen by others.

THE MAC GOD · 11-05-2003, 08:41 AM

WELL... I just got back from the REVOLUTION... and all I have to say is that reviewers have no fucking idea what the hell they like or want in a movie. It is truely the perfect ending to this trilogy. That's all that can be said.

THE MAC GOD · 11-05-2003, 08:43 AM

WELL... I just got back from the REVOLUTION... and all I have to say is that reviewers have no fucking idea what the hell they like or want in a movie. It is truely the perfect ending to this trilogy. That's all that can be said.

TheKak · 11-05-2003, 09:32 AM

Was a great movie, though a little predictable if you sit down and think about the first two as stories being retold in a pop-modern fashion. Ill go see it again!

Kyp · 11-05-2003, 10:04 AM

I remember reading horrible reviews for movies that are now looked back on as incredible movies. Revolutions I'm sure will be one of these.

TheJeff · 11-05-2003, 10:11 AM

I speculate that this movie will be a bitter combination of bad and dissapointing.

Moobie · 11-05-2003, 10:17 AM

Faith have a little faith. (jesus I can't believe I just said that) Okay, okay I admit part of me is reserved in expecting the worst, but the kid in me is hoping for something incredible. Regardless of whether it rocks or sucks you have to admit that the Matrix is cool. And I have a feeling that even if Revolutions is mediocre you won't be able forget the first movie and so as a whole the Matrix for me will always be awesome.

wondash · 11-05-2003, 10:32 AM

After all the speculation. After all the theories. The answer is.... nothing even remotely original. But the battle scenes were amazing. I just wish I had not watched the last two minutes.... what a lame ending!

Kyp · 11-05-2003, 10:50 AM

But if you hadn't watched the last 2 minutes, you would have 100,000,000 questions, wouldn't you? I was happy with it.

diergray · 11-05-2003, 11:01 AM

No answers and unoriginal. I have rarely been this disappointed.

wondash · 11-05-2003, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kyp
But if you hadn't watched the last 2 minutes, you would have 100,000,000 questions, wouldn't you? I was happy with it.

What questions were answered with a sunset and a happy little girl? For that matter, what questions were answered at any point in the movie?

Jack Ruby · 11-05-2003, 11:13 AM

Loved it. Yeah, the whole ending is a bit lame, but it's more than made up for by the movie itself. Especially the Sentinel scenes were a-fucking-mazing. I am NOT disappointed.

maximusveritas · 11-05-2003, 11:15 AM

I would say I was disappointed, but after being disappointed by Reloaded, I was prepared this time to be completely underwhelmed. I don't know why the brothers bothered to make a trilogy. They could have let things be after the first one and it would have been regarded as a success. If you're going to make a successful trilogy or even a sequel, you should have something new to give the audience. Unfortunately, they didn't.

Moskie · 11-05-2003, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Derwood
While you are entitled to your opinion (and share those opinions with others on this board), perhaps you should reserve judgment until after you see Revolutions? Reloaded is only 1/2 of a movie, and perhaps those elements of Reloaded that seem cheesy/stupid/superflous will be explained/justified in Revolutions.

Its probably been said a billion times, but good film-makers would make Revolutions stand on its own two feet, no questions asked. If a movie needs a sequel to be good, I truly believe that that signals there to be a lack of skill. And I'm not passing judgement on Revolutions, I merely summed up a few disheartening reviews I read. And I only read these reviews because I have really low expectations for Revolutions as it is, so I was seeing if some reviews could raise them and get me to want to see the movie.

And I still stand by my point, Lasereth, about some of those scenes being unneccesary. What would go underexplained if that fight with the asian guy was edited out? Or if the big fight with Agent Smith didn't happen? Or if Persephone didn't ask Neo to kiss her? As far as I can see, the plot (as well as the main characters) would be totally unaffected. As I said before, if these scenes serve some higher purpose than to advance plot, then good film-makers would make these scenes not deviate from the plot so much, would incorporate them better.

Furthermore, you mention that the fight with the asian dude shows that the Oracle is protected, that people need to prove themselves to visit the oracle, and that people need to fight this guy in order to do that. But it begs the question: why does the audience care? Why do we care if the Oracle is protected? Or if they have to fight this guy to see her? It just seems like an excuse for some Kung Fu. I think a similar argument can be made for the other scenes you brought up, as well.

Quote:

As for the Keymaker and Architect being named juvenile aliases, what else can you call two computer programs? Would it be better if they were named "BEFR(***XXMM)2045?" They have a name in the real world, as do all of the programs.

I respectfully disagree with this on a couple of levels. First, before the Keymaker and the Architect are computer programs, they're characters in a movie. Having characters with these names, for whatever reason, is hamfisted and preachy. Also, computer programs (especially ones that take human form) can have normal names. "Agent Smith" for example. I think its a great name. And now I see in Revolutions that there's "The Trainman."

Lasereth · 11-05-2003, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Moskie
Furthermore, you mention that the fight with the asian dude shows that the Oracle is protected, that people need to prove themselves to visit the oracle, and that people need to fight this guy in order to do that. But it begs the question: why does the audience care? Why do we care if the Oracle is protected? Or if they have to fight this guy to see her? It just seems like an excuse for some Kung Fu. I think a similar argument can be made for the other scenes you brought up, as well.

People like the Matrix because of it's fight scenes. The first one wasn't popular because of the acting or depth -- it was known for its over the top action scenes and original plot. Going to see Reloaded and not wanting to see fight scenes is like going to see Any Given Sunday and wanting them to take the football out of it. The oracle being protected shows that she's important and also gives the reason why she hasn't been deleted by the agents yet.

Asking for Neo not to kiss Persephone is just erasing a sideplot of the movie, masking the Merovingian and Persephone's marital troubles. The point of the Smith vs Neo fight was the point of the entire movie: to show what they can do with martial arts and special effects. That was the point of the first movie as well...it just so happened that the Wachowskis are great writers and directors. That's what made The Matrix stand out from other action movies. Hell, that's what makes Reloaded stand out -- it's over the top action scenes and incredibly in-depth plot. Without either of these, the point of the movie would be gone. If you want either of these taken out of the movie, then you're watching it for the wrong reasons.

Quote:

Originally posted by Moskie
I respectfully disagree with this on a couple of levels. First, before the Keymaker and the Architect are computer programs, they're characters in a movie. Having characters with these names, for whatever reason, is hamfisted and preachy. Also, computer programs (especially ones that take human form) can have normal names. "Agent Smith" for example. I think its a great name. And now I see in Revolutions that there's "The Trainman."

Yes, the Keymaker and Architect are characters in a movie, but NOT before they're computer programs. That defines them in the movie and defines why they have names like that. Agent Smith has the name Agent because he's...an agent, not a computer program. He would have a different name if he weren't an agent. His name is simply Smith in Reloaded because he's now basically a virus.

The Trainman sounds weird, I'll give you that. I'll have to see how it correlates to the movie.

-Lasereth

BulletBob · 11-05-2003, 01:01 PM

I loved it. The ending was really the only logical conclusion to the film but did anyone else feel that they may have tried to set up a sequel to the movies?

hiredgun · 11-05-2003, 01:13 PM

It was underwhelming at best. It's not that it wasn't good, but I couldn't help but hope that the third movie would answer the questions from the second one in a way that was as mind-blowing as the first. Looking back on it now, I don't really see how I could possibly have been satisifed with the third film, no matter what happened in it. The first movie seemed self-contained and complete in a way that neither of its sequels are.

in other words, it worked as a pretty entertaining sci/fi flick, and as something of a modern-day christ allegory. it didn't come through as a piece of philosophy the way that the "talking heads" in the second movie seemed to indicate that it would.

Pellaz · 11-05-2003, 01:25 PM

SPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERS
.
.
.
Just got back from it, really enjoyed it, with a couple of exceptions. The final fight scene had waaaay to many references to the duality. They told us point blank, we didn't need to see 5 examples of it again. I also hated hated hated the little girls question to the oracle and her response. Totaly unneeded, and reeking of "make it a bit happier in the rewrite, please".

Disregarding plot, and looking at it in terms of visual content and tone, this would typicaly of been the second movie by trilogy rules, and Reloaded the third, so it was nice to have a little shake up there.

I also greatly enjoyed the tonedown of "CGNEO". in fact, it only intruded into my enjoyment once during the movie, wheras I was ready to rip my eyes out during parts of Reloaded for the abunt use of it.

Were anyone elses thoughts drawn to Dune Messiah in the last half of the movie?

All in all, I'm quite happy with the trilogy. Sure, there are things I wish had been done differently, but the movies I can't say that about can probably be counted on one hand easily. It was a fun, well made, sci-fi series, and those just don't come along often enough for me to hold it's shortcommings against it too much.

THE MAC GOD · 11-05-2003, 01:36 PM

They are named BASED ON THEIR FUNCTION... they pound that concept into you in RELOADED. They are there to do only what they are ment to do... jeeze... ANYWAY, people complain about the kung-fu/karate/shotokan... WELL, what WOULD you like them to do? All ranged attacks DEFINITELY don't work... so you HAVE to get close and dirty!

sTghezzo · 11-05-2003, 01:41 PM

im goin to see it today! w00

Moskie · 11-05-2003, 02:10 PM

By no means do I think things like the action and Kung Fu should be taken out of the movie. I enjoy just as much as the next guy, absolutely, and I completely understand that they're important to the franchise. I'm just saying that these things can be tied in with the plot better than Reloaded did.

I don't think the first movie suffered from these problems, and I thought it was more than just a stupid action movie. It wasn't Moby Dick or anything, but it was at least competently (if not well) written, scripted, and plotted. It brought up some nice ideas in some fresh ways. Reloaded, on the other hand, brought up its ideas poorly.

Quote:

...and also gives the reason why she hasn't been deleted by the agents yet

All right, ya got me there.

I didn't interpret the asian guy's line at the end of the fight to mean that he now knows Neo is not an agent. I thought it was just some stupid test of skill/character/whatever.

Quote:

The point of the Smith vs Neo fight was the point of the entire movie: to show what they can do with martial arts and special effects.

*grumble*... so I'm asking for too much, when I go to a movie like the Matrix and actually want a film whose basic elements are at least decent?

I could argue some more, but my head is starting to hurt.

dragonhawk · 11-05-2003, 02:36 PM

Saw it this morning.

I liked it!

THE MAC GOD · 11-05-2003, 02:47 PM

The point of Smith vs. Neo was what Revolutions stated! They are arch-enemies and (without spoiling it) are destined to fight... period!

CSflim · 11-05-2003, 02:57 PM

Brilliant Brilliant Brilliant!

I was wary of this movie. After been slightly underwhelmed by Reloaded (thought it was a good movie, but not a patch on the original) I wasn't sure what to expect.

But, Wow! I was blown away! The dock scene was incredible, and the Super Brawl rocked! Plus no 20 minute rave scene!

Sure, it left certain questions open, but so what!? Do you really need absolutely everything spelled out for you and handed to you on a silver platter?

I was just delighted that they didn't use the cop-out "Matrix within a Matrix" story line, which would have really sucked!

mattevil · 11-05-2003, 03:43 PM

ok maybe spoilers but it's a spoilers thread so who cares? anyways i made the following predictions can anybody verify them for me since i won't be able to see this movie anytime soon?

Quote:

Originally posted by mattevil
heard a theory where when neo jumped into smith in the first movie they got jumbled like the guy in "the fly".smith even mentions something in reloaded about part being copied over explaining his new powers.maybe this means smith is part human now and neo is part machine. that would explain smith jumping into bane and neo putting out his own emp. i bet the matrix is also some way of the machines trying to refine themselves by finding a way to be nore human (like having emotions like love) through the use of neo.probably end with neo scarificing himself but being born again in the matrix(completing the whole christ metaphor)

Atomsk · 11-05-2003, 04:32 PM

well i just got out of the theater and i'm not sure how i feel about the movie now that i've seen the whole triligy. anyone else want to weigh in? i felt a little dissapointed the way they ended it all. i guess maybe it was a little too greek for me seeing the protagonist and his woman cut down in the end. or was he? i'm not sure in the end what will happen. the oracle seemed to speak like neo wasn't dead. but i'm not sure. what do you all think?

11-04-2003, 04:49 PM	#123 (permalink)
THE MAC GOD Insane Location: In front of my keyboard.	Nowadays everyone is a nerd in one degree or another... __________________ Why continue fighting? Is it for Love? Illusions. All as artificial as the Matrix itself, although only a human mind could invent something as insipid as Love.

11-04-2003, 05:03 PM	#125 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	Revolutions is getting mixed reviews. I'm tired of all of the same critics that hated Reloaded making Revolutions seem like crap. Hey critics, go watch Reloaded until you understand it and then review it. That's why I like Ebert -- he sees a movie once and then reviews it perfectly. He gave Matrix 3 stars out of 4, and Reloaded 3.5 stars out of 4. We'll see what Revolutions gets...since that'll probably be the only trustworthy review posted on the Internet. -Lasereth __________________ "A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

11-04-2003, 05:12 PM	#126 (permalink)
Radio Monk33 Psycho	w00t w00t. I got a 9:15 ticket for tommorow. SO STOKED. __________________ "Punk rock had this cool, political personal message. It was a bit more cerebral than just stupid cock rock, you know" -Kurt Cobain

11-04-2003, 07:52 PM	#127 (permalink)
Derwood Who You Crappin? Location: Everywhere and Nowhere	The second one wasn't garbage, however. Nor was Empire Strikes Back Or The Two Towers Need I go on? __________________ "You can't shoot a country until it becomes a democracy." - Willravel

11-04-2003, 08:07 PM	#129 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	Reloaded will probably end up being the best of the three. It's better than the first one, so that's my guess right now. I suppose I'll find out after tomorrow! -Lasereth __________________ "A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

11-04-2003, 03:43 PM	#121 (permalink)
Telethon Banned Location: Texas	Matrix is a trilogy and like all trilogies the first one is either really good, second is usually garbage and third is usually amazing

11-04-2003, 04:57 PM	#124 (permalink)
BulletBob Psycho Location: Rupp Arena	9 am tommorow

11-04-2003, 08:00 PM	#128 (permalink)
Mr.Deflok Blood + Fire Location: New Zealand	Or Superman II!

11-05-2003, 01:25 AM	#130 (permalink)
Moskie Pure Chewing Satisfaction Location: can i use bbcode [i]here[/i]?	Found a handful of reviews here: Mark Caro of the Chicago Tribune Atlanta Journal-Constitution by Steve Murray Christpher Null at filmcritic.com Michael Rechtshaffen of The Hollywood Reporter Most of them have virtually nothing good to say about the movie. I don't think I'll be able to see the movie (in english, at least) anytime soon. I might resort to downloading it, we'll see. Anyway, I get from the reviews that Revolutions is everything I hated about Reloaded, only about three times worse. And, please, the idea that people "don't get it" is tiresome. Reloaded was a bad movie. So much that happened in Reloaded was irrelevant to both the plot and to any theme they tried (yes, tried) to discuss. The fight scene with that asian dude (which ends with "You do not truly know someone until you fight them", gimmie a break), the huge fight scene with Agent Smith (which starts for no reason, and ends with Neo flying away, whoopdedoo), the twins, the French dude, kissing the French dude's girl... there's probably more, but it's been a while. All of these parts of Reloaded could have been either taken out or heavily altered, and you'd have the same exact movie (in terms of plot and theme). And having characters named "The Keymaker" and "The Architect" is juvenile. Why don't they just wear big signs that say "METAPHOR" while they're at it? I've been wanting to get that rant off for a while added I know some people are going to say that the parts I mentioned that could be taken out are relevant to some philosophical undertones/themes. That's all well and good, but a skill needed for good film-making is incoporating your themes into the plot well. This is where Reloaded failed. If you're going to discuss philosophy in a movie, fine, I think that's great. But take the time to create a plot and script where these themes are transparent, in that they jive with what's going on in the movie. The mere fact that philosophy is discussed or brought up isn't good enough. __________________ Greetings and salutations. Last edited by Moskie; 11-05-2003 at 01:45 AM..

11-05-2003, 03:37 AM	#131 (permalink)
THE MAC GOD Insane Location: In front of my keyboard.	Welll, the good thing about the whole thing, is that you DON'T have to see it. There were a lot of bad reviews for both the first and second movies. I base it on my own thoughts and not someone else who gets paid to slam creative movies and only support sad, dreamry war movies. __________________ Why continue fighting? Is it for Love? Illusions. All as artificial as the Matrix itself, although only a human mind could invent something as insipid as Love.

11-05-2003, 04:48 AM	#132 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	Ebert gave Revolutions 3 stars out of 4 (the same score as the first Matrix). Looks like it's a killer! I can't wait to see it...only a few more hours! -Lasereth __________________ "A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

11-05-2003, 08:09 AM	#135 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	Watched Revolutions at a screening last night... (jeez i've been really lucky this year... 4 blockbusters as screeners) interesting... was like watching... okay no spoilers... but IMHO it wasn't as good as the first two as far as MATRIX concepts are concerned, but it was entertaining. I'm interested in discussing it once it's been seen by others. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

11-05-2003, 08:41 AM	#136 (permalink)
THE MAC GOD Insane Location: In front of my keyboard.	WELL... I just got back from the REVOLUTION... and all I have to say is that reviewers have no fucking idea what the hell they like or want in a movie. It is truely the perfect ending to this trilogy. That's all that can be said. __________________ Why continue fighting? Is it for Love? Illusions. All as artificial as the Matrix itself, although only a human mind could invent something as insipid as Love.

11-05-2003, 08:43 AM	#137 (permalink)
THE MAC GOD Insane Location: In front of my keyboard.	WELL... I just got back from the REVOLUTION... and all I have to say is that reviewers have no fucking idea what the hell they like or want in a movie. It is truely the perfect ending to this trilogy. That's all that can be said. __________________ Why continue fighting? Is it for Love? Illusions. All as artificial as the Matrix itself, although only a human mind could invent something as insipid as Love.

11-05-2003, 09:32 AM	#138 (permalink)
TheKak Insane Location: Virginia	Was a great movie, though a little predictable if you sit down and think about the first two as stories being retold in a pop-modern fashion. Ill go see it again! __________________ Roses are red, violets are blue, I'm a schizophrenic and so am I.

11-05-2003, 10:04 AM	#139 (permalink)
Kyp Insane Location: Oregon	I remember reading horrible reviews for movies that are now looked back on as incredible movies. Revolutions I'm sure will be one of these. __________________ When life gives you lemons, sqeeze the juice into a squirt gun and shoot people in the eyes

11-05-2003, 10:11 AM	#140 (permalink)
TheJeff Upright Location: College Park	I speculate that this movie will be a bitter combination of bad and dissapointing. __________________ Mindless fools that aggravate it Pick at you in desperation

11-05-2003, 10:17 AM	#141 (permalink)
Moobie Insane Location: baked beans	Faith have a little faith. (jesus I can't believe I just said that) Okay, okay I admit part of me is reserved in expecting the worst, but the kid in me is hoping for something incredible. Regardless of whether it rocks or sucks you have to admit that the Matrix is cool. And I have a feeling that even if Revolutions is mediocre you won't be able forget the first movie and so as a whole the Matrix for me will always be awesome. __________________ Obscenity is the crutch of inarticulate motherfuckers. We like money. Give us your money you stupid consumer whore.

11-05-2003, 10:32 AM	#142 (permalink)
wondash Psycho	The Matrix Revolutions... for those who have seen it After all the speculation. After all the theories. The answer is.... nothing even remotely original. But the battle scenes were amazing. I just wish I had not watched the last two minutes.... what a lame ending!

11-05-2003, 10:50 AM	#143 (permalink)
Kyp Insane Location: Oregon	But if you hadn't watched the last 2 minutes, you would have 100,000,000 questions, wouldn't you? I was happy with it. __________________ When life gives you lemons, sqeeze the juice into a squirt gun and shoot people in the eyes

11-05-2003, 11:01 AM	#144 (permalink)
diergray Psycho	No answers and unoriginal. I have rarely been this disappointed. __________________ "Behold the turtle. He makes progress only when he sticks his neck out.” ~ James Bryant Conant

11-05-2003, 11:13 AM	#146 (permalink)
Jack Ruby Psycho Location: Belgium	Loved it. Yeah, the whole ending is a bit lame, but it's more than made up for by the movie itself. Especially the Sentinel scenes were a-fucking-mazing. I am NOT disappointed. __________________ You don't know what you don't know.

11-05-2003, 11:15 AM	#147 (permalink)
maximusveritas Winner	I would say I was disappointed, but after being disappointed by Reloaded, I was prepared this time to be completely underwhelmed. I don't know why the brothers bothered to make a trilogy. They could have let things be after the first one and it would have been regarded as a success. If you're going to make a successful trilogy or even a sequel, you should have something new to give the audience. Unfortunately, they didn't.

11-05-2003, 01:01 PM	#150 (permalink)
BulletBob Psycho Location: Rupp Arena	I loved it. The ending was really the only logical conclusion to the film but did anyone else feel that they may have tried to set up a sequel to the movies?

11-05-2003, 01:13 PM	#151 (permalink)
hiredgun Addict	It was underwhelming at best. It's not that it wasn't good, but I couldn't help but hope that the third movie would answer the questions from the second one in a way that was as mind-blowing as the first. Looking back on it now, I don't really see how I could possibly have been satisifed with the third film, no matter what happened in it. The first movie seemed self-contained and complete in a way that neither of its sequels are. in other words, it worked as a pretty entertaining sci/fi flick, and as something of a modern-day christ allegory. it didn't come through as a piece of philosophy the way that the "talking heads" in the second movie seemed to indicate that it would. Last edited by hiredgun; 11-05-2003 at 01:16 PM..

11-05-2003, 01:25 PM	#152 (permalink)
Pellaz Addict Location: Texas	SPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERS . . . Just got back from it, really enjoyed it, with a couple of exceptions. The final fight scene had waaaay to many references to the duality. They told us point blank, we didn't need to see 5 examples of it again. I also hated hated hated the little girls question to the oracle and her response. Totaly unneeded, and reeking of "make it a bit happier in the rewrite, please". Disregarding plot, and looking at it in terms of visual content and tone, this would typicaly of been the second movie by trilogy rules, and Reloaded the third, so it was nice to have a little shake up there. I also greatly enjoyed the tonedown of "CGNEO". in fact, it only intruded into my enjoyment once during the movie, wheras I was ready to rip my eyes out during parts of Reloaded for the abunt use of it. Were anyone elses thoughts drawn to Dune Messiah in the last half of the movie? All in all, I'm quite happy with the trilogy. Sure, there are things I wish had been done differently, but the movies I can't say that about can probably be counted on one hand easily. It was a fun, well made, sci-fi series, and those just don't come along often enough for me to hold it's shortcommings against it too much. __________________ " ' Big Mouth. Remember it took three of you to kill me. A god, a boy, and, last and least, a hero.' "

11-05-2003, 01:36 PM	#153 (permalink)
THE MAC GOD Insane Location: In front of my keyboard.	They are named BASED ON THEIR FUNCTION... they pound that concept into you in RELOADED. They are there to do only what they are ment to do... jeeze... ANYWAY, people complain about the kung-fu/karate/shotokan... WELL, what WOULD you like them to do? All ranged attacks DEFINITELY don't work... so you HAVE to get close and dirty! __________________ Why continue fighting? Is it for Love? Illusions. All as artificial as the Matrix itself, although only a human mind could invent something as insipid as Love.

11-05-2003, 01:41 PM	#154 (permalink)
sTghezzo Loser Location: hi	im goin to see it today! w00

11-05-2003, 02:36 PM	#156 (permalink)
dragonhawk Psycho Location: In Games.	Saw it this morning. I liked it! __________________ ---------------------------------------------- "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.

11-05-2003, 02:47 PM	#157 (permalink)
THE MAC GOD Insane Location: In front of my keyboard.	The point of Smith vs. Neo was what Revolutions stated! They are arch-enemies and (without spoiling it) are destined to fight... period! __________________ Why continue fighting? Is it for Love? Illusions. All as artificial as the Matrix itself, although only a human mind could invent something as insipid as Love.

11-05-2003, 02:57 PM	#158 (permalink)
CSflim Sky Piercer Location: Ireland	Brilliant Brilliant Brilliant! I was wary of this movie. After been slightly underwhelmed by Reloaded (thought it was a good movie, but not a patch on the original) I wasn't sure what to expect. But, Wow! I was blown away! The dock scene was incredible, and the Super Brawl rocked! Plus no 20 minute rave scene! Sure, it left certain questions open, but so what!? Do you really need absolutely everything spelled out for you and handed to you on a silver platter? I was just delighted that they didn't use the cop-out "Matrix within a Matrix" story line, which would have really sucked! __________________

11-05-2003, 04:32 PM	#160 (permalink)
Atomsk Crazy	Matrix: revolutions good/bad SPOILERS!!!! well i just got out of the theater and i'm not sure how i feel about the movie now that i've seen the whole triligy. anyone else want to weigh in? i felt a little dissapointed the way they ended it all. i guess maybe it was a little too greek for me seeing the protagonist and his woman cut down in the end. or was he? i'm not sure in the end what will happen. the oracle seemed to speak like neo wasn't dead. but i'm not sure. what do you all think?