genuinegirly

I keep telling myself that I'm crazy, that I should be happy. Here I am, pursuing my wildest dreams. I'm 26, with plenty of time to get that PHD before thinking about having children.

Yet I feel a constant nagging, "Where are the kids?"
My biological clock seems to be ticking and I wish I could shut it off.

It's not that Tt and I are opposed to having children. There just aren't any.
In fact, it might be worse because we are looking forward to raising a family together.

It runs deep. I am frequently overcome by an intense grief.
I feel as though I'm working against some substantial environmental conditioning and biological programming to pursue my education and career.

My questions to you...
Is this abnormal, or is this just part of being a woman?
Have you felt this way?
How do you cope with it?

Thanks in advance for your comments and advice. I'm looking forward to reading all you have to say.

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

DaniGirl

Well I had my first kid at 18 and now I am turning 23 and have 3 daughters. I would not change my life, I love my family. But I wish I would have pursued education or having a career. But I am happy were I am in life. I have a friend who wanted to have kids so bad and found out that she could not conceive a baby. Now she is so depressed she feels like she has lost all purpose in her life. I feel so bad for her, If I could have I would have a baby for her but I cant. I do think its a women thing feeling that they have an obligation to reproduce. Don't feel obligated to have children. Its different for everyone.

girldetective

Dear genuinegirly.

It might be that you are working against both of what you say. In fact, it may be likely.
Your noodle vs your heart. And it does run deep, with grief.

Can you have both? If so, will you like it?
If you have only one, which do you choose to do first? First is the pertinent word here I think.

I dont know, but remember this isnt Sophie's Choice.
You will survive either way, happily.

I love you.

__________________
As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons...be cheerful; strive for happiness - Desiderata

Shell

...there is no "right time" to start a family. Sure, some times are better than others but if you truly are experiencing the feelings above where i've quoted you then, it's time.

...having a child does not mean giving up your dreams. Friends and family can perhaps help. It's true that you will be running on less sleep, less time, and less money...but soooo? I mean...really...you will get a kick of adrenalin thanks to "love".

...a child can give you greater purpose, greater strength, greater determination, etc....all of which will help you and your little family survive the trials and tribulations, reset your priorities, and work through anything that gets in your way.

...talk to some mothers who are pursuing their PHDs while raising a child and see what they say. Some may be sorry they didn't wait...others may say any inconveniences are well worth it...everyone is different. Then you can make a decision based on you and Tt.

...prayer helps...sometimes what we want isn't God's perfect timing...sometimes it is.

__________________
..."Say what you think. Those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind" ~ Dr. Seuss

Acetylene

Get a puppy.

I'm serious. Get a Shi-Tsu, if you don't mind their funny-looking face. Their bodies are soft and rounded like a baby's, and cuddling them feels exactly like a furry baby. They want nothing more than to be with you and be cuddled by you and be groomed, fed, pampered, and mothered as much as you like.

A dog takes up less time and gives you that unconditional love and outlet for mothering instincts that we crave. And they stay that way their whole lives, unlike human children; you only have that feeling of complete closeness until they start walking, and then you start an 18-year process of slowly letting go.

My 2 cents: Definitely don't have a baby now. You have plenty of time for motherhood, and it will be much more difficult to have your baby AND pursue your education/career at the same time. Unlike your uterus, you education and career cannot be put on hold without suffering badly. Wait until you're ready to focus on your baby before you have one. It's not like you are deciding "Baby or no Baby," just "Baby now, or baby later."

__________________
There's no justice. There's just us.

noodle

Your noodle doesn't always know either.

The battery was taken out of my biological clock years ago and it took scheduling a tubal ligation to make it permanent that turned the damn thing back on again.
And suddenly, now that I'm single again, I find myself wondering what it would be like to bring a little person into the world and raise him or her to be intelligent and open, teach it my morals and values and send it out into the world. But again, I'm single, NOT doing it on my own, at the beginning of the six years of my PhD, and lonely, so I don't trust my own judgement. Just trust it enough to know not to make any permanent decisions now.

__________________

snowy

My biological clock is ticking so loudly that often it drowns things out. I have to shake myself and remember that Now Is Not The Time. We want to do things in the right order--finish our educations, get married, and buy a home before we have children.

Personally, I cope with it by working in the field that I do. It's a constant reminder to me that having children isn't all peaches and cream. Raising children involves a lot of poop, money, pee, puke, tears, and difficulty--oh, and health insurance. I can't wait to be a mom, but then again, I can. I know it will happen someday, when the moment is right. That isn't right now.

I think you're also feeling a bit of separation from your nephews and nieces, GG. Does the church you attend need a volunteer in the children's ministries? I know around mine, we can always use an extra pair of hands. Get into something involving kids--it will help.

I guess I'm lucky in that I've nannied for a lot of moms with Ph.Ds and subsequent academic careers, and working for them made me realize that I COULD wait to have children. Some of them waited quite a while--one mom I work for is 42, with a 14-month old. Around here, older moms are the norm. It's a good reminder that having children sooner rather than later is not always the best route.

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

amonkie

I really felt the child urge kick in when EVERYONE I know around me is going through their first pregnancy. I am talking about the friends I was maid of honor for, people I have grown up and previously shared other similar milestones with.

I could shrug off the not getting married milestone - those weddings came and went several years ago. Instead, its the sense of community they all seem to get from the pregnancy experience initially, and then the continued bond with another human being. Right now in my almost constant state of loneliness, even with a dog for the last 3 years, I selfishly want that connection.

The fact that I've actually been single for as long as I have surprises me in some ways. I know I want things badly, and sometimes that makes you make not so smart choices. So the fact that I've made the right ones for me, despite the extreme heart/mind tug of war, hopefully will make the wait worth the while.

__________________
Calling from deep in the heart, from where the eyes can't see and the ears can't hear, from where the mountain trails end and only love can go... ~~~ Three Rivers Hare Krishna

settie

I once felt that urge a few years ago, I'd say ages 19 & 20, then it died away at 21.
Something changed. I don't know what. I used to have crazy dreams about babies, and feel like they haunted my every thought.

Now, at 23, I'm repulsed by them. I get annoyed when children start running around at work, or screaming/crying. I'm anti-kid at the moment. lol. I used to think I'd have (and have to have) kids before 30. Now I don't care. At the moment, my future is open, and unanswered. I like it how it is. My mindset will likely change later on in life.

Shaindra

Having faced infertility treatment, I will say, just because it seems like lots of people have kids in their late thirties and even forties without trouble...that isn't the way we're designed. Your clock is ticking because your hormones know that now is the time you're most fertile. That declines at 30 and takes a steep dive at 35....

I'm not saying that to pressure you, because Lord knows nobody should have kids before they are full ready to be parents, but it's not like you can hit the snooze button on that forever.

__________________
"Never regret something that once made you smile."

CinnamonGirl

Ohhhh, yeah. I get it. I'm not in a relationship at the moment, but I seem to keep getting into long term ones with guys who absolutely do NOT want kids.

There aren't many things that I'm great at. I really think I'd be a great mom... but... I'm not. And I've (kind of) come to terms with the fact that I probably won't be. It's not really a nice feeling...

__________________
"...for though she was ordinary, she possessed health, wit, courage, charm, and cheerfulness. But because she was not beautiful, no one ever seemed to notice these other qualities, which is so often the way of the world."


"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?"

shesus

My opinion is that if you are thinking this calculated about children, you probably won't ever have any.

There is never a 'right' time. You will never be prepared. You just have to do it, if it is something that you really want.

Biologically, we are wired to reproduce. Logically, it seems crazy to bring a person into the world with the economy being in the shitter. Choose your choice and go with it. You have to make sacrifices on either choice. The main question is which sacrifices are you willing to live with?

I don't feel grief or guilt over not having a child. I don't want the responsibility. I don't see the point of bringing someone into the world and devoting so much time, energy, and money to him/her without any guarantee of a positive outcome.

__________________
Whatever did happen to your soul?
I heard you sold it

Choose Heaven for the weather and Hell for the company

little_tippler

I feel it. I started feeling it around 25. When my last long term relationship ended I thought about it a lot. It made me think hard about why I felt that way.

When I was in my early twenties, I used to think 27 would be a perfect age to have kids. I'm almost 30 now and still don't have any. It sometimes tugs at me but I try not to let it get to me. I think, I have a great life, good friends, I'm still young and there's a lot to do in life besides that. I would still like to have kids. I worry that I won't.

Unlike men, women seem to have a sell-by date looming over our heads if we want kids. It's hard to work through the feeling. The reason I would have liked to have kids younger is because of health, the generation gap, and also the amount of time I will have with my kids in my lifetime. But you can't always have everything at the same time.

I also think it's not a question of being ready. When you want them, and the context is right, it happens. I think very few people actually plan their kids. What gets me is, when you decide to have them, you can get pregnant pretty fast or it can take years. You never know until you start trying. So if you start late...

But since thinking through my feelings clearly, I have realized also that I am happy in myself and my life without kids being there. I believe I will have them someday. Even if I have to resort to being a single mom at some point...if I decide I really want it, I will make it happen.

shesus, I also worry about the 'outcome'. But I also think that, irrationally, having your own child must be a beautiful, awe-inspiring experience. I want to feel that, regardless of my skepticism.

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

*Nikki*

I didn't ever really feel the tug to have kids until I was married and I felt "settled" in my life. Now I realize how hard it is to have a child and care for them the older you get. I wish I would have started younger!!

I would tell you that you can do both things, you education and have a child. But the fact of the matter is, sometimes that is just not possible. Children take up SO MUCH time, energy and focus that you may not have anything left for yourself. Everyone is different though, I just know once I had a child, my world changed 100%.

genuinegirly

Thank you, Ladies for all of your thoughtful responses.

amonkie, it is good to hear that the feeling comes and goes. Perhaps surrounding myself with others who have no family is a good thing. I like your description, "the extreme heart/mind tug of war." This is precisely the way I feel.

Girldetective, thank you for leading me through some pertinent thoughts. I would like to get through school first. I would like to raise a family second. This is my plan, but I feel my biological clock is making me re-evalute this plan entirely too frequently. I assume you have gone through this yourself- I'd love to hear about your success.

Shell and Shesus - both of your responses are not something I anticipated from either of you. You are pushing the same points as my mother and sister. It is good for me to hear it from a source other than family. I realize now that my family is not as crazy out-there as I thought and that this is a rather common perspective -So I thank you for your words.

Acetylene,your response is awesome. It made me laugh and smile. One of my best friends recently adopted a welsh corgie for this reason - totally absorbs her time and energy, and she enjoys the companionship. Unfortunately at our current apartment we're not permitted to have dogs. I do have a rabbit, which I cuddle and train. Nowhere near the same loyalty or commmitment as a puppy - but it does get to a little of that itch.

Danigirl, thank you for saying, "don't feel obligated to have children." This is the first time I have ever been told this. I was raised LDS. You understand entirely what this means, though others likely do not so I will go into it... With my upbringing there was no room to entertain the thought of not having children. In high school I had that all-too-common brainwashed dream to marry immediately after my boyfriend returned from his mission, move to the middle of the forest somewhere in Utah, and raise 10+ kids. I didn't bother to break away from the culture until halfway through college. Every female that I gew up with at the LDS church is now one of the following 1) married with any number of children, 2) married and involuntarily sterile, or 3) single and hating it. Most of them married quite young and are overwhelmingly financially strapped - either dependent upon the church's bishop's storehouse for food or on WIC/foodstamps. Most of them live with extended family and have no education to speak of. A couple of them bothered to finish their bachelor's degrees and they now have gone into teaching or childcare. When I look at their lives, with which they appear quite happy, I realize all the more that it is not for me and I am glad that I stepped away. I've never bothered to picture my life without children. I think I will start to entertain those thoughts and see where it goes.

Cinnamongirl, how did you come to terms with the idea - what are the mental exercises involved? It seems like a difficult thing to do.

Little_Tippler, you said a lot here that is meaningful to me. But your words: " I think, I have a great life, good friends, I'm still young and there's a lot to do in life besides that," really stick with me. I need to make this my mantra. Thank you.

Settie, that sounds like a great place to be mentally. /jealous

Shaindra, thank you for your words. My husband and I will require medical intervention to have children. Hence my words "there just aren't any" in the OP. Shouldn't the fact that we're unable make it easier to not feel this pressure?

Nikki, it is good to hear that it changed your life so completely. It makes me want to be extra-certain before we plunge.

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

PonyPotato

Personally, I am experiencing a lot of the thoughts and feelings in this thread regarding having children.. all at different times.

But since I don't even have a relationship on the horizon, I push it from my mind and focus on other things. I still haven't even applied to graduate school - being responsible for a child on top of everything in my life at the moment would be insane.

__________________
"Without passion man is a mere latent force and possibility, like the flint which awaits the shock of the iron before it can give forth its spark."
— Henri-Frédéric Amiel

Shaindra

Nope. And the pressure isn't entirely cultural either. It's innate. The same hormones that tell you to eat, sleep and pleasure yourself are there to tell you that babies are what you want. Almost any woman of childbearing years (and beyond) who's held a newborn knows that feeling. It triggers things in our brains that say "safe to breed".

Don't feel like you're insane or abnormal because you may choose not to have kids in spite of these feelings. It's a rare person who is completely devoid of the urge to procreate.

That said, I will say that it's one of those things that you're never truly ready for. You just do it and figure out the rest later. Will it be easier after the PhD? I doubt it. There is no "easy" time. But some people work sequentially on goals, others do better working on goals in parallel. It may also be that having a child alters some of your goals...and that isn't always a bad thing either. It's our job to grab the happiness when it comes, not to delay it until things are "perfect".

__________________
"Never regret something that once made you smile."

PonyPotato

Oh, genuinegirly, I forgot to mention in my post: my parents had me (first child) when they were 35 and 33. My mom was 35 when she had my younger sister. I think I turned out okay.

__________________
"Without passion man is a mere latent force and possibility, like the flint which awaits the shock of the iron before it can give forth its spark."
— Henri-Frédéric Amiel

Halanna

I would say that you probably are happy. Your life is full, but you are missing one puzzle piece. That piece hasn't been handed to you yet. Keep building . .

I'm not certain if your intense feelings are grief or longing for what you don't have . . . yet. It's worse if your friends around you are having babies or have young ones at home. You may feel left behind, or that you are behind in the reproduction cycle.

While it is true there is never an "ideal" time to have children, there is something to be said for self fulfillment prior to giving your life over to another life. That is what it is. Nothing you can do, career, money or love can prepare you to give over your life to raise another.

I don't think it's abnormal. Some women feel it intensely, some not so much.

At 26 you are still young. Assuming healthy, there is no reason to have children before you feel you are ready. If you do, it could cause resentment. Toward yourself, your partner, and on certain occasions, your child.

You will be hard pressed to reach the "ideal" time to have a child, home, insurance, savings etc etc. But when you have enough, what is enough for you and your partner, you'll know.

Hang in there. You are a natural teacher and natural nurturer.

I know it's easy for me to say, but . . . don't force it, do your thing, wait until it you're ready. Wanting and being ready are two different things.

raeanna74

At 24 I was feeling a certain biological clock - urge, to get married. It wasn't until I came to a point in my mind that I would be happy being single my whole life if that was the case... that I ended up tripping over the guy I ended up marrying. At that time I thought that it was something like "a watched pot never boils." Who knows if that's the case. Perhaps, if/when you are able to move beyond this feeling that you might end up finding the right guy and finding that you do choose to have a child or children. I doubt you would be as poor a parent as you think. In my experience, the people who are the most self-critical (within reason of course) are the most open to learning and try harder to do their best. A parent who is willing to learn and try is the most a child can hope for.

On the other hand. Choosing not to have a child to choose a career, or to even just wait for children is admirable IMHO. Our population is growing so much and there are so many valuable ways of contributing to society that parenting is not an absolute must. You will have urges... many more than you have experienced and like the one you are having now. My tubes were tied several years ago but I still have urges, wishing I could get pregnant and have a little boy. When I think about it long enough I am content though. That's probably the biggest question you'll have to answer. Do you ever come to a point, between urges, where you are content with your decision? If not then you may want to rethink things and many change your plans or path.

Good luck.

__________________
"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

purplelirpa

I've been going back and forth on this idea, myself. My mother and granny both had their first child at 15. Now, at 22, I am childless and the first woman in my family to pursue a degree, much less a doctorate.

My bf and I would both like children, but while we are living with his mother and attending school, we just don't feel like we could support a child. I may not be on birth control, but we aren't actively seeking pregnancy. It's kind of a decision that I've left to chance, which I'm not sure if that's a good idea. I feel like if I were to become pregnant, we would manage and adjust our lives accordingly. It would certainly be a child born into a loving environment.

cadre

Ding ding. I have a german shepherd puppy, partially for this reason. Another option would be to a foster for your local humane society. Then you get to take care of young kitten and puppies when they need it most (you do have to give them up for adoption though).

I'm not disagreeing with you that there is no easy time to have a baby but do you know anyone working on PhD? It is a lot of work even with no family to take care of. That said, it also takes a lot of time but you can definitely add a few years if you have a child in the middle.

I don't think your biological clock is going to stop ticking any time soon Genuinegirly. The urge to have kids seems to fade slightly and then come back. It is not at all unnatural to want to have a child, and it's also not at all unnatural to want to make sure the timing is right.

The method of coping that worked best for me was getting a puppy. Something to take care of and worry about. And boy did that work. After dealing with a 6 week old puppy, I seriously did not want kids (ironically my boyfriend then decided he wanted a child). That said, the dog's older now and my niece will be born soon so my clock is kind of ticking again. For me, it's not so much wanting a kid right now, but wanting to make sure I'm in the right position to have one in a specific amount of time (as in, I want a child sooner than later).

Point is, ultimately the choice is up to you but I don't see harm in waiting (as long as you don't wait too long). It will never be easy to have a child, but keep in mind that some things will make it more of a challenge (ie - PhDs). If you're happy to spend more time in school so that you can have a child that is perfectly fine. I hope that helps, sorry for the long post.

__________________
My life is one of those 'you had to be there' jokes.

Shaindra

I know a woman who finished her PhD with a 2yo and pregnant with her second. Was it easy? Well, when she finished she held a party where her dissertation was setup as a shrine. I'm guessing easy wasn't the word she'd use.

I also know a woman who got married, finished the PhD, then had the baby in her mid-thirties. She seems very content with her decision too.

Lastly, I know a woman who waited until her thirties to try for her kids after getting her 2 advanced degrees and working on her career. Even with significant medical intervention, she was unable to get pregnant. If she'd tried in her 20s, she likely would be a mother now. She has made peace with not being a mother (did not want to pursue adoption) but if she had to do it over, she'd likely choose differently.

I'm not arguing for the "get pregnant now" angle. I'm just pointing out that our fertility does decline with age. That's just a simple fact of being a woman. While we see celebrities having kids in their late thirties and forties, what we're not seeing is heavy use of donor eggs and significant costs both monetary and emotional. Declining fertility and the physical toll of pregnancy on older woman needs to be weighed against your ability to meet your goals before having children.

I am all about *informed* choice.

---------- Post added at 07:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:48 PM ----------

I have to admit..."non-decision decisions" about having a child make me itch. If you are not on birth control and you are "leaving it to chance" that is a *decision*. If you do not want to have children now, please re-think that decision.

---------- Post added at 07:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:48 PM ----------

Lastly, one more comment for the OP. Make sure that part of your desire for a child now isn't wrapped up in some fantasies that are helping you deal with the stress of finishing your schooling. We're such primitive creatures, so easily distracted by new, shiny things to think about when things get tough.

There is only one reason to have children: because you want to become a parent along with all that means.

*hugs*

__________________
"Never regret something that once made you smile."

Sharon

I had noticed myself becoming broody in the last few years, but I know I'm not ready to have a child yet. One thing that has helped scratch the itch a little is working with young people - it's helped me use that maternal energy in a productive (but not reproductive!) way.

Ayashe

Some times I think of it. Hmm, now I do not have a great many years left to consider for another one. I guess with the right person, a man who desired to have one of his own I would definitely consider. Then again.. I don't have that man nor do I have a strong inclination to search for him. I can certainly relate to what you are saying about a sell-by date, not a lot of time to make decisions, at least as far as I am concerned.

__________________
I am only a little spoon in a huge world of soup.

purplelirpa

Good point.

CinnamonGirl

How do I come to terms with it? Well, to be honest...I don't think about it. Much. I still feel that "tug" when I hear a friend is pregnant, or someone just had a baby... but I push it out of my head and focus on other stuff.

I just don't like to dwell. If I start dwelling on it, then I get all depressed, and I'd really rather not. This is true for a lot of things, not just kids.

__________________
"...for though she was ordinary, she possessed health, wit, courage, charm, and cheerfulness. But because she was not beautiful, no one ever seemed to notice these other qualities, which is so often the way of the world."


"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?"

hotandheavy

I have felt exactly what you wrote. It's like someone flipped a switch in my head and I went full tilt towards wanting kids. My husband was on board 100%, so that part was easy. Keeping the sex interesting for 3 years was not. I finally gave up, and BAM! I was pregnant.

I wouldn't give up being a Mom for anything in the world. I love it.

lostgirl

I never felt like I wanted to have children, and I always thought I was weird for that. I never played with baby dolls when I was little, even when all of my friends did. Not sure why that is.

__________________
We're about to go through the crucible, but we'll come out the other side.
We always arise from our own ashes. Everything returns later in its changed form. - Children of Dune

ZombieSquirrel

I want children. I can't say I want a husband, but having a partner to raise them with would be beneficial/helpful of course.

I believe our clocks tick for a reason. Not everyone's tick at the same time or as loudly as others. We have to listen and make our decisions based on what our bodies are telling us.

Have you ever seen Idiocracy? It's so funny. The premise is that all the intelligent people in the world are waiting to accomplish great feats in their career before having children. Then life gets away from them and they don't have children. All the while, the not so intelligent people are producing at an alarming rate. In the future, the intelligent people have all died off and not reproduced. The mindless then rule the earth.