[RANT] Is customer service getting worse as time goes on? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Holo · 11-25-2003, 11:00 AM

I found threads on work horror stories and customer horror stories but no threads about the horror it is to be a customer in this day and age.

Customer service has really gone downhill in the last decade or so in every industry but especially retail. I remember as a teen you'd ask where something was in a store and the employee would take you to it. Now they pretend they don't know and I'm thinking "If you don't know get a manager or dep head that does!" I don't want to spend all day to look thru a store that moves shit every 3 months-grocery stores are really bad for changing the whole store every few months. I want to get my shit and leave.

Let me qualify my bitching so I don't come off as one of "the enemy" of retail workers. I've held a few retail jobs, and I know all they have to do in a day. When i go to store I always put the carts away, I put things I decide not to buy back where I got them, etc. I try my damnedest to find something myself before I ask anyone. Being a former retail employee has made me a model customer. These days I try to catch a manager on the floor to ask because they're the only ones capable, willing and able to go the distance to help you out.

Customers don't like to have to shop in an unfamiliar store as it is and they don't like to have to ask where shit is either, knowing the employees have other shit they are expected to get done. I know they have a whole other job to do besides help customers but I get annoyed when they brush you off and leave you hanging bascially. I remember we got a bookshelf at walmart a while back. We asked for help and had to wait 20 minutes to get help with it since we aren't supposed to handle things on shelves ourselves and the standard carts wouldn't hold this item. We weren't done shopping at that point, we just wanted to get it at that time as it was on sale and it was the last one out, so we asked the guy to take it to the front end so we could pick it up at checkout and he actually got shitty about it, a nasty look on his face and he shuffled it to the front. I wanted to smack the fuck outta him.

And you may say don't shop there-but do I wanna waste the time it takes to go to another store that I get treated much the same and waste even more time or spend more money than I wanted for the same item? The problem is retail chains know they got you so they can treat you like chattel. You can't bring down a store by talking bad about them anymore-word of mouth means shit in retail now due to huge national chains. They have hundreds and thousands of customers to replace you and all your friends.

My action? An experiment. I'm going to look at all my physical needs (food.etc) and I'm going to look at local store alternatives to all my needs, places that my regular business affects their bottom line. I know they can't compete with costs and I can't say If I can make the switch or even meet my needs with mom-n-pop shops here, but I'm gonna be putting more money where it'll be appreciated by a real person. I'm getting sick of being treated as a profit vehicle for a corporate retail chain. I know I can't abstain from all corporate offered goods/services but I can sure slow it down.

So anyone agree? Maybe try this yourself? what do you think of the customer experience these days? I know most jobs suck and most of these ppl would rather be doing anything but wearing a goofy looking uniform ringing up items all day. I'm saying think of the person who's gotta shop there too. They aren't happy to be there either...it's a necessity. Some of them are assholes and I'm sorry that you have to deal with them and not be able to rip their heads off. I'm just saying some of us on the other side of the uniform are just as stressed and unhappy to be there as you are. We're just lucky that we only gotta be there an hour or so.

rockzilla · 11-25-2003, 11:14 AM

Just last week I was at a relatively new, huge grocery store. I was having a hard time finding phyllo pastry (I was having a hard time finding anything since the place was massive, to be honest). So I came across a manager who was supervising a few employees putting a display up and I asked him. His response to me was "Not my department." That was it, no "Sorry", he didn't even make an attempt to find someone who would be able to help me. So I got his name from his name tag, repeated it and then asked if he could tell me where the customer comment box was. He told me it was by the exit, I guess the idiot didn't realize that I was implying that I was going to write a negative comment about him, which I did.

That's the kind of service I'd expect from a minimum wage earning kid who really doesn't want to be there, and I probably would have let it slide if I had asked someone like that for help, but this guy was a manager, he really should have tried harder (or just tried, period.).

I avoid the bigger stores when I can. The reason above is just one of many that I rarely shop in large grocery stores. I find I can get better produce at small markets, for pretty much the same price. I buy stuff like rice, flour, spices and other staples at bulk stores. I usually go to an actual butcher shop for meat. A little pricier, but again, much higher quality.

The staff is usually much more knowedgable at specialty stores as well. I know I'd never ask the kid behind the electronics counter at Wal-Mart for advice on choosing a camera. I'd go to a camera store.

Cynthetiq · 11-25-2003, 11:15 AM

some stores have crappy customer service.... some don't.

i only frequent those that have good customer service.... i vote with my dollars.

phredgreen · 11-25-2003, 11:26 AM

okay. i've had widely varying customer service experience. i'll chronicle some of the highlights.

British Airways. truly a pleasure to work this job. the passengers, with the exception of a few lousy ones (mostly americans) were great, and never lost their tempers or got travel-paniced when something went awry.

America West. as good as BA was, America West was bad. underpaid employees dealing with low-fare/high expecation asshole passengers who were demanding, excitable, and short-tempered. on top of that, the supervisory staff was unsupportive of its agents' desicions, undermining them on many occasions. I was glad when they fired me, i'd had enough of it anyways.

Flex Foam. this was a different customer service experience. the customers i was handling were businesses, many times the people who ran the businesses. you'd think that means people would be a little more understanding and appreciate the plights of customer service. wrong. grown men who ran high-dollar businesses were just as bad as screaming children if you didn't do everything any anything to make them completely happy and assure them that nothing will ever go wrong. what a mess.

Costco. beyond the time i had at British Airways, this is quickly turning into my favourite customer service position. The members (as they're called because they actually pay to shop at Costco) are normally very polite, and appreciate someone who spends a little time with them to make sure their needs are met. I appreciate the fact that Costco encourages its employees to treat the members with a higher level of service, and it translates into a good experience when i'm helping them, because when i'm done, the members know what they need to and normally communicate their appreciation. of course, as any other retail gig goes, there is the general picking-up after people who leave items in odd places, but that's true for any retail gig, so it's just par for the course.

overall, customer service really adds up to the employees and their happiness. if a company pays their employees well and supports them and their desicions while on the job, you will find a higher level of service than at some fly-by-night or retail hell where everyone working is underpaid, overworked, and generally fed up with their jobs.

iHawk · 11-25-2003, 11:32 AM

I think the problem lies somewhere else:
If you were paid $5 or something per hour for running around in a giant supermarket, you'd stop very soon being friendly to the customers, especially not 8 hours a day. First, I guess the staff there just don't care, because they get nothing out of it. They just earn their five bucks, no matter what they do, and as long as not too many customers complain (and who really does that?) they keep their job. Second, the companies are constantly cutting costs, which means less sales people per ft² in the store, which in turn means more desperate customers per worker calling for help. So, the staff just gets totally frustrated. And as an unsuspecting customer, you perceive that as assholeism. Which it is, actually. But not because of the people at the store wanting to be that way. Except some, I guess...
At my job as a bicycle seller, I don't get any profit share either, but I get paid almost 10$/h, which isn't bad for a student over here. So, I'm happy with my job, I give the customers honest advice, because I have no intention to force them into buying something they don't want, because I wouldn't get more money anyways. So, everyone is happy...
Bottomline is: give the poor store-people a bit more money, hire a few more and everything is OK. Giving them profit shares, and they try to sell everything to everyone, which pisses the customers off, too. Paying too little and having only a few sales rep's makes them unhappy, which is directly transferred to the customers. In most cases, it's not the personal fault of that one guy who wouldn't help you.

Just my 0.02$

Holo · 11-25-2003, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by iHawk
In most cases, it's not the personal fault of that one guy who wouldn't help you.

Just my 0.02$

And you're right...I'm not blaming the workers for feeling morose or saying "get another job if ya dont' like it" because they would if it was really unbearable. I'm saying many customers are like children in an unfamiliar place-they need a little guidance. They don't ask to piss you off, it's because they can't find something in a megalomart style store. Will the stores listen to what you say? Probably not until we as a groups (I mean thousands) stop shopping there or take the time to complain. Problem is you don't see your complaints handled most of the time or even dealt with at all. I say if most of us would just cut our shopping in megalomarts down considerably we could change things in time. Theyr'e winning because we allow it. Conversely, they're also winning because they can get employees to put up with it. I don't have all the answers, but there are solutions to this, and a couple are not working for companies that "exploit" you if possible, and to slow your dollar output to those stores that don't serve you as you should be.

iHawk · 11-25-2003, 12:05 PM

And that's exactly the way MS went that big: everyone is complaining, but still buying their stuff. It's not even that their software is bad at all, it's just that they don't do any real support, because they know everybody will continue buying their products. It takes a lot of manpower to overthrow a company like that, aside from the coordination it needs. Just like MS, there are almost no alternatives to the megastores left, even here in Germany

I can't think of any mom'n'pop grocery store in my vicinity, which includes my 20.000 pop. hometown and a 100k city nearby. So, you don't really have a choice other than continue shoving your bucks down that corporate throat...
It was different over here until the early 80's, when prices for all and everything were being set by a government agency. Everyone had to sell a certain item for the same price, which was calculated a way that the seller always made a certain profit. So, there was no danger to the m'n'p stores coming from the supermarkets. They could only lure the customers with more choice, not lower prices.
I don't know if that's the right thing to do either, but it made life a lot easier for small businesses.

mingusfingers · 11-25-2003, 03:06 PM

I worked at McDonald's for 9 months, and this last job has been getting the same way...Managers trying to cut costs, understaffing, seems to be the biggest thing I notice for lack of customer service.

Elegant Holmes · 11-25-2003, 04:19 PM

Nordstrom's is the undisputed leader in customer service. My experience with a chain called "The Home Depot" leads me to believe it may be the worst ever. I shop there a lot for my job and for fun. They are a home improvement store. I have on several occassions helped out other customers because their staff is so miserably inept. I even interupted a salesman in the paint department. A lady was complaining that the paint she bought was not the same color she picked. I explained that the mercury vapor lights in the store were a different color than the lights she had at home, and color is determined by reflective light. I suggested she take a color sample home and look at it under her lights. The idiot salesman got all goofy about it and started to argue.
I hate going to Home Depot, but don't have much choice if I'm in a rush.

Soggybagel · 11-26-2003, 11:57 AM

Another thing though that is happening if you may not notice is that many retail stores and basically any other store is now employing loads of teenagers. Not only are the teens usually part time and really just wanting supplemental income, they are usually poorly trained and really just kind of thrown in on the job. THis coupled with the idea that its only a part time job makes some customer service suck even more than it should.

Bill O'Rights · 11-26-2003, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elegant Holmes
My experience with a chain called "The Home Depot" leads me to believe it may be the worst ever.

I am in 100% agreement with that statement. I avoid The Home Depot at all costs. I much prefer to give my dollars to my neighborhood hardware store. They are more knowledgable and seem genuinly glad that I came. I <b>like</b> my little neighborhood hardware store, and Home Depots are putting the little guys out left and right. Much like Walmart did. Someday I may have no choice, but for today I do.

Journeyman · 11-26-2003, 03:06 PM

Soggybagel: Your post goes pretty much hand-in-hand with the thread on Fast-Food Nation (I dunno if the thread brings it up, but the book did). Essentially, the younger and less skilled a worker is, the cheaper it is to hire them and leads to a massive turnover rate that keeps any store from ever having to invest benefits, vacation time, or a living wage into any worker.

Your satisfaction with their customer service is dependent on a system that sucks away from their bottom line profits. And when you have no other way to get what you need, their bottom line isn't affected by your dis-satisfaction, and they're free to go stingey on the work force.

tikki · 11-26-2003, 04:55 PM

I think customer service has deteriorated because shoppers have. How many times have you been at a job, or witnessed a customer just rip into a salesman for something. I know it happened to me, and after a few times of it, I became a lot less approachable because I was always wary of the next jackass to come rip me a new one for something that wasn't even my fault.

Something will have to give though because atm we are just going in a circle.

Frowning Budah · 11-26-2003, 06:44 PM

I think the gap between good and bad is getting wider. I have had some excellent customer service at places like grocery stores and on line computer support, but have had absolutely appalling customer service at large business like UPS and Amazon. Maybe that is the difference the local business still think of you like a customer and the big companies think of you only in terms of dollars.

HeyAgain · 11-26-2003, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tikki
I think customer service has deteriorated because shoppers have. How many times have you been at a job, or witnessed a customer just rip into a salesman for something. I know it happened to me, and after a few times of it, I became a lot less approachable because I was always wary of the next jackass to come rip me a new one for something that wasn't even my fault.

Something will have to give though because atm we are just going in a circle.

Well said! Just show a little bit of respect to the staff members and you will receive the same in return.

OFKU0 · 11-26-2003, 07:52 PM

I find the customer service people who are polite and friendly under any circumstance are people who enjoy life and treating people as they would like to be treated, with respect.

On the other hand though, there are some who for the first time in their lives have some level of authority and now they will exercise their right, just for your benefit. Thanks, but you're here to return my money for the purchase I am returning. And if you don't do it, someone else will. I promise.

anleja · 11-26-2003, 10:04 PM

Earlier this year I went to Wendy's and purchased for my wife a grilled chicken sandwich. When she opened the wrapper she found that the piece of chicken was only as big as half the bun. Like, she would have to literally eat two mouthfulls of bread before she would get to the chicken.

I hate complaining, but I paid like 4 bucks for this crap. I called the restaurant to see if maybe they would mail a card for a free sandwich, "no" I had to go to the store. I went to the drive-thru, where I was told I'd have to come inside. Okay, what the fuck, why not, I already drove 4 miles to get up here, why not walk inside the store.

I showed the manager the pathetic chunk of of little chicken on the big bun, and he said "what's wrong with it?"

I picked up the meat and moved it to the edge of the bun, where I thought the sight of meatless-covered bun would make him realize why I was unhappy with this. He then told me that he couldn't do anything for me because it was a "fine sandwich" and said the store would suffer tremendous losses if they threw away all the tiny pieces of meat instead of using them, as if I was the buffer to ensure they profit against the people who actually get what they pay for.

The best part is when he told me that chicken breasts are like people; some of them are big and some of them are small.

He finally agreed to making another one (which he wasn't going to do at first) so I had to stand there in the lobby and listen to the employees basically talk shit about me. I had fantasies about throwing the sandwich after I got it and making a big scene, but I decided against it. When he gave me the sandwich he said "do you want to see if it's okay?" to which I said "I'm sure it's fine, but can I tell you something?" He said "sure."

"If you are going to talk shit about your customers, you should do it a little bit quieter."

The look on his face was worth all the hassle. Well, almost worth it.

There, that is my long story about how a manager made me decide to never go to eat at his shitty Wendy's ever again.

And don't even get me started about Bennigan's

*edit* I think this thread strikes a nerve, because as someone who deals with customers on a daily basis, I make sure to treat people as they deserve to be treated. So it gets me mad when I go through a drive-thru, give them money, get my food, and they don't even say "thank you" or "have a nice day." It happens all the time when I, as the customer, tell THEM "thank you" to which their response is merely a nod, or nothing at all but the window closing in my face.

Wow, now I'm all riled up.

anleja · 11-26-2003, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Holo
I wanted to smack the fuck outta him.

The image of someone doing this to some Wal-Mart snothead made me laugh pretty hard.

Holo · 11-27-2003, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by anleja
*edit* I think this thread strikes a nerve, because as someone who deals with customers on a daily basis, I make sure to treat people as they deserve to be treated. So it gets me mad when I go through a drive-thru, give them money, get my food, and they don't even say "thank you" or "have a nice day." It happens all the time when I, as the customer, tell THEM "thank you" to which their response is merely a nod, or nothing at all but the window closing in my face.

Wow, now I'm all riled up.

I can do without the "haveaniceday" but I do agree a thank you for your business is in order. Just too easy to neglect basic customer service when you know you could piss off 100 people in a row and it wouldn't make a dent in the store's bottom line. It's a vicious vicious cycle. I definitely want to try more local food joints after going to McD's and getting screwed once again in the drive thru.

Macheath · 11-27-2003, 09:02 AM

A nice story from the other side of the equation though. I worked in a supermarket about 6-7 years ago keeping shelves stocked during the day. Watching to make sure nothing ran out. Customer help wasn't the job's official purpose though I did help customers anyway.

One day, an old man asked for assistance, looking for something or other. I had a lull in the workload at the time and went the full nine yards helping this guy. He ends up asking my name and then thanks me and leaves. Didn't think much of it at the time.

Week later I get a letter from the state manager of the store chain, turned out the old man's son was a former State Premier (think Governor) who also happened to be on the store chain's board of directors.

I was a pretty damn untouchable little shelf stocker after that.

Johnny Rotten · 11-27-2003, 03:05 PM

I worked at Home Depot for eight months back in 2001, and it is indeed a shitty store. My theory is that they began firing people left and right when the economy turned--and they noticed that business didn't suffer as a result. So they kept cutting employee numbers down to the bone.

But people keep coming. The prices are low, low, low. You take a look at that bargain power drill in the Sunday ad, and you forget how long it takes to wait in line. The front end at Home Depot, and most chain retail stores these days, is the most obscene bottleneck I have ever seen. And what do you do if you can find that drill, because it's been sold out, or misplaced, or mis-tagged? Good luck trying to find someone to help you. Everyone but the cashiers--everyone--has a store radio on them. And you hear people getting paged on the intercom constantly. But there just aren't enough people to cover the floor and deal with the problems, because the corporation doesn't care.

It's nuts. When I worked the Returns desk, just about every other transaction required an authorization I wasn't qualified to execute. Even the fucking 10% off coupons required a front end supervisor to come over to my register, turn his key and enter a code. And, because the front end was chronically, almost abusively understaffed, he or she was usually already busy working another register, resolving a dispute or running desperately through the store for a price check because the person working that particular department wasn't answering their phone or the department phone bolted to the shelf on every aisle.

Plus the people working these counters have the most ridiculous work "schedules." You never know what days of the week you're going to work and what shifts you're going to take on those days. Closing one day at 11:30 PM and opening at 5:45 AM the following morning? Tough shit.

I think it got better after I left, once they canned the smooth-talking imbecile who apparently didn't have an ounce of hiring discretion. He was all big talk about working at the Atlanta HQ someday, but he never got past the store level because he couldn't figure out the basic procedure of who to hire and who not to hire. Way too many meatheads and slackers. Store had the highest turnover of any in the US, with 80% of the staff gone every three months.

A truly soulless black hole of the retail world that confirms all the cynical doubts you've had about corporate America.

If you want to get rid of this kind of madness, you have to convince yourself that saving a few dollars is not worth hunting down the item somewhere in that gargantuan cavern of a store, then waiting in the mind-numbing line for the inevitable price checks, credit card authorizations, check screening, and price screwups. With thousands upon thousands of odd-shaped items, price tags are bound to fall off. Then there's the nuts, bolts, washers, etc., which you have to look up in a book. Some of them look almost identical but have very different prices.

Don't get me started on people trying to "return" used-up power tools I'd never seen before in my life, and the iron-clad store policies that forced me to call for a store manager every five minutes.

Home Depot is a pile of shit for everyone who stays in that store for more than half an hour.

samiam · 11-27-2003, 05:52 PM

I was in a large automtive supply store the other day and when I finally found a salesperson to ask where they had hidden what I wanted, the answer I got was, "How would I know, I only work here." I have been told off by clerks in front of a manager for asking too many questions (It was the second question.) without a reaction of any kind from the manager. I would try to boycot all the establishments where there is no customer service, but then I would have to stay home 24/7.

Soggybagel · 11-27-2003, 06:18 PM

Journey, I started a thread about Fast Food Nation a while back, but totally forgot about that segment in the book. Good point.

Tikki, and all others who mentioned that if the customer is nice service is also nice. While I totally agree as I work in a sales environment dealing directly with people, I do know that I have been angry before and have found myself ripping into people before. I think there is a delicate balance that must be done. Sometimes if a business decides to screw you or I, a good yelling is worth it.

remiel · 11-28-2003, 10:11 AM

I'm simultaneously tolerant and intolerant of customer service situations.

I'm tolerant because I've worked customer service jobs for crap money and had to deal with idiots demanding the moon on a stick and there's been times I wanted to strangle people and days I've not wanted to be there.

I'm intolerant because I've worked customer service jobs for crap money, and dealt with idiots demanding the moon on a stick, and kept a smile on my face, and there have been customers I've wanted to strangle who I've nevertheless treated like king shit of shit mountain, and days I've not wanted to be there when nonetheless I've been out on the floor helping people with a smile on my face.

so I reward good customer service, be it on the phone, in person or online, but at the same time I try not to put up with too much crap I didn't deserve.

One time my wife was on the phone booking plane tickets from a travel agency, and the guy she was talking to was super helpful, and at the end of the call, she asked to speak to the manager, and instantly he started sounding scared, asking if there was a problem or anything he could do. She reassured him that she wanted to speak to his manager because he'd been really helpful and made it a pleasure to conduct business. Too many people only comment on bad service instead of good service. I kind of comment on both.

Elegant Holmes · 12-04-2003, 04:03 PM

Here's a good one from my hometown:
HoustonChronicle.com

HoustonChronicle.com -- http://www.HoustonChronicle.com | Section: Local & State

Dec. 4, 2003, 2:53PM

Woman gets 10 years for running over McDonald's manager
By ANDREW TILGHMAN
Copyright 2003 Houston Chronicle
A McDonald's customer who flew into a violent rage when she was denied
mayonnaise on her cheeseburger got 10 years in prison today for running over the
restaurant's manager.
Waynetta Nolan, 37, could have received as much as 20 years in prison for
hitting Sherry Allen Jenkins with her car, dragging the employee across the
parking lot and breaking her pelvis at the McDonald's in southwest Houston.
Nolan showed little emotion this afternoon when the jury came back with the
punishment after four hours of deliberation. Earlier this morning, however, as
the jury heard testimony in the punishment phase of Nolan's trial, her
43-year-old victim tearfully said she couldn't pick up her grandchildren because
of the injuries she suffered in the incident.
"I put the mayonnaise on her burger," Jenkins told jurors. "I took the onions
and the mustard off. What did I do?"
Jurors took less than an hour on Wednesday to convict Nolan of aggravated
assault in the courtroom of state District Judge Brock Thomsas. Nolan testified
then that she thought she had rolled over "a bump" when she ran over Jenkins.
Nolan was contrite during her testimony today and apologized for running over
Jenkins on April 23. She said she had been going through "a bad time" in her
life when she lost it in the drive-through line.
The incident began when an 18-year-old employee working at the drive-through
window near Bissonnet and Beltway 8 told Nolan mayonnaise was not an option on
McDonald's cheeseburgers. When Nolan became angry, she was encouraged to pull
her car around to the window counter and speak to the manager.
Witnesses said Nolan cursed and threw a cheeseburger back though the
drive-through window.
When Jenkins offered a special-order cheeseburger with mayonnaise, witnesses
said, Nolan complained her french fries had grown cold. After receiving new
fries, she then demanded a new drink.
Unable to pacify the belligerent customer, Jenkins finally called police, who
asked her to get the customer's license plate number. Jenkins walked out to the
drive-through line to get the number.
Nolan testified she had inched her car forward to put ketchup on her burger when
she heard a car horn. Realizing she was blocking drive-through traffic, she
said, she gunned her car forward and hit Jenkins.
After running over Jenkins, witnesses said, Nolan sped from the parking lot and
drove into oncoming traffic on a one-way feeder road. She was arrested at her
home after a man who saw the assault followed her and reported her plate to
police.
Jurors had the option of convicting Nolan of a lesser crime, such as misdemeanor
reckless driving, but prosecutors said it was her spectacular departure that
likely led to her felony assault conviction.
"Did she stop?" asked Assistant District Attorney John Jordan. "Did she say, `Oh
my Lord, what have I done?' "
Nolan's attorney, Troy Wilson, said his client simply panicked.
"I think more than anything, it was the panic afterward that hurt her with the
jury."

HoustonChronicle.com -- http://www.HoustonChronicle.com | Section: Local & State

This article is: http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory...pstory/2268726

cj2112 · 12-04-2003, 06:22 PM

I recently had the opportunity to have some dealings w/ msn's customer service dept. This group of people are the most annoyingly polite customer service rep's I have ever spoken with in my life! I asked one of them to check something for me and then thanked him, his response was "You are welcome Mr. Jones, at MSN you are always welcome." This was the tone of the entire 20 minute conversation. I expect customer service reps to be polite when I am the customer, how ever there is such a thing as going waaaay too far.

charliex · 12-04-2003, 07:11 PM

There was a story on NPR last nite talking about how we've basically become rude and intolerant as a western society, technology allows us to hide and say stuff we normally wouldn't say to other people, that in turn feeds back into the system and we start doing it everywhere.

11-25-2003, 11:00 AM	#1 (permalink)
Holo A Real American	[RANT] Is customer service getting worse as time goes on? I found threads on work horror stories and customer horror stories but no threads about the horror it is to be a customer in this day and age. Customer service has really gone downhill in the last decade or so in every industry but especially retail. I remember as a teen you'd ask where something was in a store and the employee would take you to it. Now they pretend they don't know and I'm thinking "If you don't know get a manager or dep head that does!" I don't want to spend all day to look thru a store that moves shit every 3 months-grocery stores are really bad for changing the whole store every few months. I want to get my shit and leave. Let me qualify my bitching so I don't come off as one of "the enemy" of retail workers. I've held a few retail jobs, and I know all they have to do in a day. When i go to store I always put the carts away, I put things I decide not to buy back where I got them, etc. I try my damnedest to find something myself before I ask anyone. Being a former retail employee has made me a model customer. These days I try to catch a manager on the floor to ask because they're the only ones capable, willing and able to go the distance to help you out. Customers don't like to have to shop in an unfamiliar store as it is and they don't like to have to ask where shit is either, knowing the employees have other shit they are expected to get done. I know they have a whole other job to do besides help customers but I get annoyed when they brush you off and leave you hanging bascially. I remember we got a bookshelf at walmart a while back. We asked for help and had to wait 20 minutes to get help with it since we aren't supposed to handle things on shelves ourselves and the standard carts wouldn't hold this item. We weren't done shopping at that point, we just wanted to get it at that time as it was on sale and it was the last one out, so we asked the guy to take it to the front end so we could pick it up at checkout and he actually got shitty about it, a nasty look on his face and he shuffled it to the front. I wanted to smack the fuck outta him. And you may say don't shop there-but do I wanna waste the time it takes to go to another store that I get treated much the same and waste even more time or spend more money than I wanted for the same item? The problem is retail chains know they got you so they can treat you like chattel. You can't bring down a store by talking bad about them anymore-word of mouth means shit in retail now due to huge national chains. They have hundreds and thousands of customers to replace you and all your friends. My action? An experiment. I'm going to look at all my physical needs (food.etc) and I'm going to look at local store alternatives to all my needs, places that my regular business affects their bottom line. I know they can't compete with costs and I can't say If I can make the switch or even meet my needs with mom-n-pop shops here, but I'm gonna be putting more money where it'll be appreciated by a real person. I'm getting sick of being treated as a profit vehicle for a corporate retail chain. I know I can't abstain from all corporate offered goods/services but I can sure slow it down. So anyone agree? Maybe try this yourself? what do you think of the customer experience these days? I know most jobs suck and most of these ppl would rather be doing anything but wearing a goofy looking uniform ringing up items all day. I'm saying think of the person who's gotta shop there too. They aren't happy to be there either...it's a necessity. Some of them are assholes and I'm sorry that you have to deal with them and not be able to rip their heads off. I'm just saying some of us on the other side of the uniform are just as stressed and unhappy to be there as you are. We're just lucky that we only gotta be there an hour or so. __________________ I happen to like the words "fuck", "cock", "pussy", "tits", "cunt", "twat", "shit" and even "bitch". As long as I am not using them to describe you, don't go telling me whether or not I can/should use them...that is, if you want me to continue refraining from using them to describe you. ~Prince Last edited by Holo; 11-25-2003 at 11:02 AM..

11-25-2003, 11:14 AM	#2 (permalink)
rockzilla Junkie Location: The Kitchen	Just last week I was at a relatively new, huge grocery store. I was having a hard time finding phyllo pastry (I was having a hard time finding anything since the place was massive, to be honest). So I came across a manager who was supervising a few employees putting a display up and I asked him. His response to me was "Not my department." That was it, no "Sorry", he didn't even make an attempt to find someone who would be able to help me. So I got his name from his name tag, repeated it and then asked if he could tell me where the customer comment box was. He told me it was by the exit, I guess the idiot didn't realize that I was implying that I was going to write a negative comment about him, which I did. That's the kind of service I'd expect from a minimum wage earning kid who really doesn't want to be there, and I probably would have let it slide if I had asked someone like that for help, but this guy was a manager, he really should have tried harder (or just tried, period.). I avoid the bigger stores when I can. The reason above is just one of many that I rarely shop in large grocery stores. I find I can get better produce at small markets, for pretty much the same price. I buy stuff like rice, flour, spices and other staples at bulk stores. I usually go to an actual butcher shop for meat. A little pricier, but again, much higher quality. The staff is usually much more knowedgable at specialty stores as well. I know I'd never ask the kid behind the electronics counter at Wal-Mart for advice on choosing a camera. I'd go to a camera store. Last edited by rockzilla; 11-25-2003 at 11:33 AM..

11-25-2003, 11:15 AM	#3 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	some stores have crappy customer service.... some don't. i only frequent those that have good customer service.... i vote with my dollars. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

11-25-2003, 11:26 AM	#4 (permalink)
phredgreen who? Location: the phoenix metro	okay. i've had widely varying customer service experience. i'll chronicle some of the highlights. British Airways. truly a pleasure to work this job. the passengers, with the exception of a few lousy ones (mostly americans) were great, and never lost their tempers or got travel-paniced when something went awry. America West. as good as BA was, America West was bad. underpaid employees dealing with low-fare/high expecation asshole passengers who were demanding, excitable, and short-tempered. on top of that, the supervisory staff was unsupportive of its agents' desicions, undermining them on many occasions. I was glad when they fired me, i'd had enough of it anyways. Flex Foam. this was a different customer service experience. the customers i was handling were businesses, many times the people who ran the businesses. you'd think that means people would be a little more understanding and appreciate the plights of customer service. wrong. grown men who ran high-dollar businesses were just as bad as screaming children if you didn't do everything any anything to make them completely happy and assure them that nothing will ever go wrong. what a mess. Costco. beyond the time i had at British Airways, this is quickly turning into my favourite customer service position. The members (as they're called because they actually pay to shop at Costco) are normally very polite, and appreciate someone who spends a little time with them to make sure their needs are met. I appreciate the fact that Costco encourages its employees to treat the members with a higher level of service, and it translates into a good experience when i'm helping them, because when i'm done, the members know what they need to and normally communicate their appreciation. of course, as any other retail gig goes, there is the general picking-up after people who leave items in odd places, but that's true for any retail gig, so it's just par for the course. overall, customer service really adds up to the employees and their happiness. if a company pays their employees well and supports them and their desicions while on the job, you will find a higher level of service than at some fly-by-night or retail hell where everyone working is underpaid, overworked, and generally fed up with their jobs. __________________ My country is the world, and my religion is to do good. - Thomas Paine

11-25-2003, 11:32 AM	#5 (permalink)
iHawk Upright Location: good ol' germany	I think the problem lies somewhere else: If you were paid $5 or something per hour for running around in a giant supermarket, you'd stop very soon being friendly to the customers, especially not 8 hours a day. First, I guess the staff there just don't care, because they get nothing out of it. They just earn their five bucks, no matter what they do, and as long as not too many customers complain (and who really does that?) they keep their job. Second, the companies are constantly cutting costs, which means less sales people per ft² in the store, which in turn means more desperate customers per worker calling for help. So, the staff just gets totally frustrated. And as an unsuspecting customer, you perceive that as assholeism. Which it is, actually. But not because of the people at the store wanting to be that way. Except some, I guess... At my job as a bicycle seller, I don't get any profit share either, but I get paid almost 10$/h, which isn't bad for a student over here. So, I'm happy with my job, I give the customers honest advice, because I have no intention to force them into buying something they don't want, because I wouldn't get more money anyways. So, everyone is happy... Bottomline is: give the poor store-people a bit more money, hire a few more and everything is OK. Giving them profit shares, and they try to sell everything to everyone, which pisses the customers off, too. Paying too little and having only a few sales rep's makes them unhappy, which is directly transferred to the customers. In most cases, it's not the personal fault of that one guy who wouldn't help you. Just my 0.02$ __________________ Die Welt ist dumm und ich erst recht

11-25-2003, 12:05 PM	#7 (permalink)
iHawk Upright Location: good ol' germany	And that's exactly the way MS went that big: everyone is complaining, but still buying their stuff. It's not even that their software is bad at all, it's just that they don't do any real support, because they know everybody will continue buying their products. It takes a lot of manpower to overthrow a company like that, aside from the coordination it needs. Just like MS, there are almost no alternatives to the megastores left, even here in Germany I can't think of any mom'n'pop grocery store in my vicinity, which includes my 20.000 pop. hometown and a 100k city nearby. So, you don't really have a choice other than continue shoving your bucks down that corporate throat... It was different over here until the early 80's, when prices for all and everything were being set by a government agency. Everyone had to sell a certain item for the same price, which was calculated a way that the seller always made a certain profit. So, there was no danger to the m'n'p stores coming from the supermarkets. They could only lure the customers with more choice, not lower prices. I don't know if that's the right thing to do either, but it made life a lot easier for small businesses. __________________ Die Welt ist dumm und ich erst recht

11-25-2003, 03:06 PM	#8 (permalink)
mingusfingers Psycho Location: uhhhh	I worked at McDonald's for 9 months, and this last job has been getting the same way...Managers trying to cut costs, understaffing, seems to be the biggest thing I notice for lack of customer service. __________________ Still Looking

11-25-2003, 04:19 PM	#9 (permalink)
Elegant Holmes Crazy Location: "TX"	Nordstrom's is the undisputed leader in customer service. My experience with a chain called "The Home Depot" leads me to believe it may be the worst ever. I shop there a lot for my job and for fun. They are a home improvement store. I have on several occassions helped out other customers because their staff is so miserably inept. I even interupted a salesman in the paint department. A lady was complaining that the paint she bought was not the same color she picked. I explained that the mercury vapor lights in the store were a different color than the lights she had at home, and color is determined by reflective light. I suggested she take a color sample home and look at it under her lights. The idiot salesman got all goofy about it and started to argue. I hate going to Home Depot, but don't have much choice if I'm in a rush.

11-26-2003, 11:57 AM	#10 (permalink)
Soggybagel Psycho Location: Lovely City #1	Another thing though that is happening if you may not notice is that many retail stores and basically any other store is now employing loads of teenagers. Not only are the teens usually part time and really just wanting supplemental income, they are usually poorly trained and really just kind of thrown in on the job. THis coupled with the idea that its only a part time job makes some customer service suck even more than it should.

11-26-2003, 03:06 PM	#12 (permalink)
Journeyman Like John Goodman, but not. Location: SFBA, California	Soggybagel: Your post goes pretty much hand-in-hand with the thread on Fast-Food Nation (I dunno if the thread brings it up, but the book did). Essentially, the younger and less skilled a worker is, the cheaper it is to hire them and leads to a massive turnover rate that keeps any store from ever having to invest benefits, vacation time, or a living wage into any worker. Your satisfaction with their customer service is dependent on a system that sucks away from their bottom line profits. And when you have no other way to get what you need, their bottom line isn't affected by your dis-satisfaction, and they're free to go stingey on the work force.

11-26-2003, 04:55 PM	#13 (permalink)
tikki Justified Location: West Lafayette, IN	I think customer service has deteriorated because shoppers have. How many times have you been at a job, or witnessed a customer just rip into a salesman for something. I know it happened to me, and after a few times of it, I became a lot less approachable because I was always wary of the next jackass to come rip me a new one for something that wasn't even my fault. Something will have to give though because atm we are just going in a circle. __________________ Take notice. Take interest. Take me with you.

11-26-2003, 06:44 PM	#14 (permalink)
Frowning Budah Slave of Fear	I think the gap between good and bad is getting wider. I have had some excellent customer service at places like grocery stores and on line computer support, but have had absolutely appalling customer service at large business like UPS and Amazon. Maybe that is the difference the local business still think of you like a customer and the big companies think of you only in terms of dollars.

11-26-2003, 07:52 PM	#16 (permalink)
OFKU0 Junk	I find the customer service people who are polite and friendly under any circumstance are people who enjoy life and treating people as they would like to be treated, with respect. On the other hand though, there are some who for the first time in their lives have some level of authority and now they will exercise their right, just for your benefit. Thanks, but you're here to return my money for the purchase I am returning. And if you don't do it, someone else will. I promise. __________________ " In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.

11-26-2003, 10:04 PM	#17 (permalink)
anleja disconnected Location: ignoreland	Earlier this year I went to Wendy's and purchased for my wife a grilled chicken sandwich. When she opened the wrapper she found that the piece of chicken was only as big as half the bun. Like, she would have to literally eat two mouthfulls of bread before she would get to the chicken. I hate complaining, but I paid like 4 bucks for this crap. I called the restaurant to see if maybe they would mail a card for a free sandwich, "no" I had to go to the store. I went to the drive-thru, where I was told I'd have to come inside. Okay, what the fuck, why not, I already drove 4 miles to get up here, why not walk inside the store. I showed the manager the pathetic chunk of of little chicken on the big bun, and he said "what's wrong with it?" I picked up the meat and moved it to the edge of the bun, where I thought the sight of meatless-covered bun would make him realize why I was unhappy with this. He then told me that he couldn't do anything for me because it was a "fine sandwich" and said the store would suffer tremendous losses if they threw away all the tiny pieces of meat instead of using them, as if I was the buffer to ensure they profit against the people who actually get what they pay for. The best part is when he told me that chicken breasts are like people; some of them are big and some of them are small. He finally agreed to making another one (which he wasn't going to do at first) so I had to stand there in the lobby and listen to the employees basically talk shit about me. I had fantasies about throwing the sandwich after I got it and making a big scene, but I decided against it. When he gave me the sandwich he said "do you want to see if it's okay?" to which I said "I'm sure it's fine, but can I tell you something?" He said "sure." "If you are going to talk shit about your customers, you should do it a little bit quieter." The look on his face was worth all the hassle. Well, almost worth it. There, that is my long story about how a manager made me decide to never go to eat at his shitty Wendy's ever again. And don't even get me started about Bennigan's edit I think this thread strikes a nerve, because as someone who deals with customers on a daily basis, I make sure to treat people as they deserve to be treated. So it gets me mad when I go through a drive-thru, give them money, get my food, and they don't even say "thank you" or "have a nice day." It happens all the time when I, as the customer, tell THEM "thank you" to which their response is merely a nod, or nothing at all but the window closing in my face. Wow, now I'm all riled up. Last edited by anleja; 11-26-2003 at 10:10 PM..

11-27-2003, 09:02 AM	#20 (permalink)
Macheath Junkie Location: Sydney, Australia	A nice story from the other side of the equation though. I worked in a supermarket about 6-7 years ago keeping shelves stocked during the day. Watching to make sure nothing ran out. Customer help wasn't the job's official purpose though I did help customers anyway. One day, an old man asked for assistance, looking for something or other. I had a lull in the workload at the time and went the full nine yards helping this guy. He ends up asking my name and then thanks me and leaves. Didn't think much of it at the time. Week later I get a letter from the state manager of the store chain, turned out the old man's son was a former State Premier (think Governor) who also happened to be on the store chain's board of directors. I was a pretty damn untouchable little shelf stocker after that.

11-27-2003, 03:05 PM	#21 (permalink)
Johnny Rotten lost and found Location: Berkeley	I worked at Home Depot for eight months back in 2001, and it is indeed a shitty store. My theory is that they began firing people left and right when the economy turned--and they noticed that business didn't suffer as a result. So they kept cutting employee numbers down to the bone. But people keep coming. The prices are low, low, low. You take a look at that bargain power drill in the Sunday ad, and you forget how long it takes to wait in line. The front end at Home Depot, and most chain retail stores these days, is the most obscene bottleneck I have ever seen. And what do you do if you can find that drill, because it's been sold out, or misplaced, or mis-tagged? Good luck trying to find someone to help you. Everyone but the cashiers--everyone--has a store radio on them. And you hear people getting paged on the intercom constantly. But there just aren't enough people to cover the floor and deal with the problems, because the corporation doesn't care. It's nuts. When I worked the Returns desk, just about every other transaction required an authorization I wasn't qualified to execute. Even the fucking 10% off coupons required a front end supervisor to come over to my register, turn his key and enter a code. And, because the front end was chronically, almost abusively understaffed, he or she was usually already busy working another register, resolving a dispute or running desperately through the store for a price check because the person working that particular department wasn't answering their phone or the department phone bolted to the shelf on every aisle. Plus the people working these counters have the most ridiculous work "schedules." You never know what days of the week you're going to work and what shifts you're going to take on those days. Closing one day at 11:30 PM and opening at 5:45 AM the following morning? Tough shit. I think it got better after I left, once they canned the smooth-talking imbecile who apparently didn't have an ounce of hiring discretion. He was all big talk about working at the Atlanta HQ someday, but he never got past the store level because he couldn't figure out the basic procedure of who to hire and who not to hire. Way too many meatheads and slackers. Store had the highest turnover of any in the US, with 80% of the staff gone every three months. A truly soulless black hole of the retail world that confirms all the cynical doubts you've had about corporate America. If you want to get rid of this kind of madness, you have to convince yourself that saving a few dollars is not worth hunting down the item somewhere in that gargantuan cavern of a store, then waiting in the mind-numbing line for the inevitable price checks, credit card authorizations, check screening, and price screwups. With thousands upon thousands of odd-shaped items, price tags are bound to fall off. Then there's the nuts, bolts, washers, etc., which you have to look up in a book. Some of them look almost identical but have very different prices. Don't get me started on people trying to "return" used-up power tools I'd never seen before in my life, and the iron-clad store policies that forced me to call for a store manager every five minutes. Home Depot is a pile of shit for everyone who stays in that store for more than half an hour. Last edited by Johnny Rotten; 11-27-2003 at 03:11 PM..

11-27-2003, 05:52 PM	#22 (permalink)
samiam Crazy	I was in a large automtive supply store the other day and when I finally found a salesperson to ask where they had hidden what I wanted, the answer I got was, "How would I know, I only work here." I have been told off by clerks in front of a manager for asking too many questions (It was the second question.) without a reaction of any kind from the manager. I would try to boycot all the establishments where there is no customer service, but then I would have to stay home 24/7.

11-27-2003, 06:18 PM	#23 (permalink)
Soggybagel Psycho Location: Lovely City #1	Journey, I started a thread about Fast Food Nation a while back, but totally forgot about that segment in the book. Good point. Tikki, and all others who mentioned that if the customer is nice service is also nice. While I totally agree as I work in a sales environment dealing directly with people, I do know that I have been angry before and have found myself ripping into people before. I think there is a delicate balance that must be done. Sometimes if a business decides to screw you or I, a good yelling is worth it.

11-28-2003, 10:11 AM	#24 (permalink)
remiel Insane Location: Gastonia NC	I'm simultaneously tolerant and intolerant of customer service situations. I'm tolerant because I've worked customer service jobs for crap money and had to deal with idiots demanding the moon on a stick and there's been times I wanted to strangle people and days I've not wanted to be there. I'm intolerant because I've worked customer service jobs for crap money, and dealt with idiots demanding the moon on a stick, and kept a smile on my face, and there have been customers I've wanted to strangle who I've nevertheless treated like king shit of shit mountain, and days I've not wanted to be there when nonetheless I've been out on the floor helping people with a smile on my face. so I reward good customer service, be it on the phone, in person or online, but at the same time I try not to put up with too much crap I didn't deserve. One time my wife was on the phone booking plane tickets from a travel agency, and the guy she was talking to was super helpful, and at the end of the call, she asked to speak to the manager, and instantly he started sounding scared, asking if there was a problem or anything he could do. She reassured him that she wanted to speak to his manager because he'd been really helpful and made it a pleasure to conduct business. Too many people only comment on bad service instead of good service. I kind of comment on both. __________________ "Then said Joseph to St. Mary, henceforth we will not allow him to go out of the house; for every one who displeases him is killed." Gospel of the Infancy of Jesus Christ, 20:16

12-04-2003, 04:03 PM	#25 (permalink)
Elegant Holmes Crazy Location: "TX"	Here's a good one from my hometown: HoustonChronicle.com HoustonChronicle.com -- http://www.HoustonChronicle.com \| Section: Local & State Dec. 4, 2003, 2:53PM Woman gets 10 years for running over McDonald's manager By ANDREW TILGHMAN Copyright 2003 Houston Chronicle A McDonald's customer who flew into a violent rage when she was denied mayonnaise on her cheeseburger got 10 years in prison today for running over the restaurant's manager. Waynetta Nolan, 37, could have received as much as 20 years in prison for hitting Sherry Allen Jenkins with her car, dragging the employee across the parking lot and breaking her pelvis at the McDonald's in southwest Houston. Nolan showed little emotion this afternoon when the jury came back with the punishment after four hours of deliberation. Earlier this morning, however, as the jury heard testimony in the punishment phase of Nolan's trial, her 43-year-old victim tearfully said she couldn't pick up her grandchildren because of the injuries she suffered in the incident. "I put the mayonnaise on her burger," Jenkins told jurors. "I took the onions and the mustard off. What did I do?" Jurors took less than an hour on Wednesday to convict Nolan of aggravated assault in the courtroom of state District Judge Brock Thomsas. Nolan testified then that she thought she had rolled over "a bump" when she ran over Jenkins. Nolan was contrite during her testimony today and apologized for running over Jenkins on April 23. She said she had been going through "a bad time" in her life when she lost it in the drive-through line. The incident began when an 18-year-old employee working at the drive-through window near Bissonnet and Beltway 8 told Nolan mayonnaise was not an option on McDonald's cheeseburgers. When Nolan became angry, she was encouraged to pull her car around to the window counter and speak to the manager. Witnesses said Nolan cursed and threw a cheeseburger back though the drive-through window. When Jenkins offered a special-order cheeseburger with mayonnaise, witnesses said, Nolan complained her french fries had grown cold. After receiving new fries, she then demanded a new drink. Unable to pacify the belligerent customer, Jenkins finally called police, who asked her to get the customer's license plate number. Jenkins walked out to the drive-through line to get the number. Nolan testified she had inched her car forward to put ketchup on her burger when she heard a car horn. Realizing she was blocking drive-through traffic, she said, she gunned her car forward and hit Jenkins. After running over Jenkins, witnesses said, Nolan sped from the parking lot and drove into oncoming traffic on a one-way feeder road. She was arrested at her home after a man who saw the assault followed her and reported her plate to police. Jurors had the option of convicting Nolan of a lesser crime, such as misdemeanor reckless driving, but prosecutors said it was her spectacular departure that likely led to her felony assault conviction. "Did she stop?" asked Assistant District Attorney John Jordan. "Did she say, `Oh my Lord, what have I done?' " Nolan's attorney, Troy Wilson, said his client simply panicked. "I think more than anything, it was the panic afterward that hurt her with the jury." HoustonChronicle.com -- http://www.HoustonChronicle.com \| Section: Local & State This article is: http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory...pstory/2268726

12-04-2003, 06:22 PM	#26 (permalink)
cj2112 Unbelievable Location: Grants Pass OR	I recently had the opportunity to have some dealings w/ msn's customer service dept. This group of people are the most annoyingly polite customer service rep's I have ever spoken with in my life! I asked one of them to check something for me and then thanked him, his response was "You are welcome Mr. Jones, at MSN you are always welcome." This was the tone of the entire 20 minute conversation. I expect customer service reps to be polite when I am the customer, how ever there is such a thing as going waaaay too far.

12-04-2003, 07:11 PM	#27 (permalink)
charliex Junkie Location: North Hollywood	There was a story on NPR last nite talking about how we've basically become rude and intolerant as a western society, technology allows us to hide and say stuff we normally wouldn't say to other people, that in turn feeds back into the system and we start doing it everywhere.