crxforum

OK here is my situation and hopefully you guys can help me out. Moreso girls if possible since I dont really have an outlet to get a female's oppion on this type of stuff since its kinda personal but the ananomynity of the internet makes it easier :P.

I met this girl in July and she went back home for a few months and came back in September. The whole time she was back home (overseas) we talked pretty much daily through email and MSN. When she came back here to go to University Ive been hanging out with her a fair amount. Like around 2 times a week or so on average and I talk to her on MSN or on the phone pretty much everyday.

The second I met her I felt feelings towards her. I know this is stupid of me being a 22 year old guy but there is something really special about her that I just cant put my finger on. Maybe because she is so smart, we get along so well, she is so fun to be with, and hillarious not to mention beautiful. Pretty much everything I could ever wish for in a girl in my wildest dreams.

Ive had relationships in the past and Im the type of guy who is nice. I go out of my way to make peoples lives easier. For some reason when it comes to relationships it comes back to bite me in the ass. The girls Ive dated in the past have seemed to of taken advantage of my kindness and willingness to help them out. Now this whole time she has been here taking classes Ive done everything I can think of to make her life easier. I got her my old TV, telephone, gave her bedding, movies and anything else she needed for her first week becuase she didnt have much. Since then Ive taken her wherever she needed to go for groceries, to the mall, whatever just so I could spend those precious few minutes with her. Ive even taken my whole lunch break at work to drive over to her dorm and bring her a coffee when she was tired from studying all night for a midterm. Its just the type of guy I am I guess.

This whole time, which is about 4 months now Ive not made a move or anything because she has a lot on her plate especially being thousands of miles from home and having to deal with being in a new country, meeting new people, studying for school in not her native language, and just the ordeals of living with dormmates and other things.

Im pretty cautious when it comes to girls now since Ive been burned in almost every relationship in the past. I seem to go head first in without thinking so I decided to take my time with her and see how things turn out.

Now during these 4 months Ive done my best to read her signs but they are mixed to say the least. For example we went to a concert and we were approaching the security and she said "If they pat me down inappropriatly yell at them 'Hey! STOP TOUCHING MY GIRLFRIEND!'" Comments like that are common. Weve exchanged gifts on our birthdays and Christmas and I think we are pretty close.

I want to cross this friend line. Ive never had to do it before. Hell Ive never felt this way about a girl before in my life. Even ones Ive had relationships lasting 6+ months and knowing them longer. There is something amazing about her and I cant keep her off my mind. I mean Ill be reading a book and then notice Ive gone 3 pages of reading without remembering becuase Ive been thinking about her. I even find myself checking my messages on my home phone on the meer chance that she has called when Ive been at work, or check my email randomly to see if she sent a note or something. Ive never done this before to official girlfriends Ive had. She really means a lot to me and I dont want this oppertunity to pass me by if I have the chance.

I just dont know how to go about it. I want to just come out and tell her how I feel. Im scared though. Rejection would be devistating I think. I know that sounds lame. You older TFP members will think "This youngin is got a case of puppy love of something" but I think its more than that. I really want to have a meaningful relationship with this girl after having relationships in the past that were pretty much useless and a waste of time where it ended up in me getting used.

Any tips on how to go about telling her? Any experience or advice for those who have made it work?

Please help me out here. I dont want to loose her. Only if being able to write out to her how I felt would be appropriate but I know its not. I have to do it in person.

Thanks
CRX Forum

SERPENT7

You are screwed. You have put yourself on the friend ladder, and there you will stay. (For an explaination, google Intellectual whore, and read the ladder theory. It will explain all.)

alansmithee

I echo SERPENT7's comments. You screwed yourself-you already had the connection and even were able to maintain it over distance. Now, maybe wherever she's from they have wildly different customs, but you should've made a move before she came back, or at least soon after she returned. Now, more than likely if you tried something, she wouldn't flat-out refuse you, because you've made yourself so useful, but you'll probably notice yourself getting next to nowhere.

Mantus

Everything about your situation spells DOOM.
As such I will perform the Gir Doom Song for you,
Allow me to explicate my view,

You can't buy love. Gifts do not make a woman hot for you. Understand this, chemestry and friendship are not inclusive. Attraction doesn't cost a dime.

You are also suffering from a major case of oneitis. Oneitis is a killer. Not because you shouldn't appreciate people for their beauty but because you get raped in the head with it. You start seeing shit that isn't there. I am sure you've met people who are treated like shit by their SO's and they think it's "cute," "funny," or "they don't mean it". We are talking Hunter S. Thompson on his worst trip.

Now, what do you say to her? You don't say anything. How often do you see the hero ask for the first kiss?

The.Lunatic

Easy Fix - Your a nice guy who does stuff for people all the time and hope for reciprocation.

People like to feel like they earn stuff / work for stuff.

Next g/f do something nice for her and be all cute and nice guy like then say something like i just had to do something to thank you for the great blow job the other day or that ride you gave me while you were busy. Trade for stuff then its earned then i means more. Don't expect someone to reciprocate if you don't set it up for them to do so.

About the girl your trying to get with tone it down a bit! don't talk to her every day and call her everyday thats just rediculous go ahead and try to do something semi-fun in you life every day for an hour or so out of the house. That gives you Intresting things to talk about instead of normal lame shit. Also if you want her to go out with you you've gotta warm her up before you go down that route. you're gonna have to start to drop sextually charged comments when you talk. Make them about her. Say something like you know what i like about you not only are you attractive, but you’re really fun to talk to. You need to get it in her head that you can give her good sex. Spend some time thinking of something to say that lets her know that you can give her good orgasams and if you can't just lie.

Next get her really drunk sometime

Tada you're not nice guy now your a genunine guy and you get the girl.

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ratbastid

Generally speaking, she's the one who says whether or not you cross the friend line. The one who wants LESS in a relationship is the one in control, always and forever. So unless you're willing to play the losing end of a control game with her, you've got to back off a little. You've got to get some control over your feelings for her.

I've done this myself about girls in the past. You want to know my trick? Okay, here it is. You know how you think about her when you masturbate? Admit it, you know you do. So here's what you've got to do: every time you start thinking about her that way, stop yourself and think about someone or something else. Before long--it'll start in a matter of days, and by a couple weeks into doing this you'll see a real difference--you won't have the horny geekboy response to her anymore. You'll be able to see and hear clearly when you're around her, without your hormones and desires and expectations clouding your perceptions. You'll naturally back off her a little bit.

You know how you catch a puppy who's gotten off his leash? Chasing the puppy won't work, he'll just start playing a "you can't catch me" game. Instead, you sit down quietly and let the puppy come to you. But sitting there waiting for the right moment to lunge at the puppy won't work either--he's faster than you, and he can always get away. You have to actually sit there and literally wait for him to come right up to you, sit down in your lap, and ask you to put your hands on him.

fallsauce

Personally, I get the feeling that maybe she's getting mixed messages from you as well. You seem to really like her and do all this stuff for her, but you haven't made any advances yet. Maybe that's why she's saying all those little comments.

If you want to tell whether she likes you *that way*, invite her to something blatantly obvious date-like, (something quiet, at night, just the two of you,) and see what her reaction is. If you don't tell her beforehand, she'll either be really embarrassed, or really happy. (That's how I would act anyways, but she might be better at hiding her feelings.)

Either way, you're going to kick yourself if you don't try and probably pretty miffed when she does get a boyfriend, and if she really doesn't like you that way, back off and who knows, maybe she enjoys a challenge and see you in a new light.

__________________
"Hey little kitty with your tail dragging on the floor
You could have a following in every town that you go"
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filtherton

Befriending someone because you want to fuck them isn't something that nice guys do. Get rid of the idea that you somehow deserve anything for being a "nice guy". Ladder theory is bullshit. You just need to ask her if she wants to be more than friends. If she says yes, good for you. If she says no, stop pretending to be "nice" to get laid, you aren't going to get laid. Admit to yourself that you only befriended this young lady because you wanted to get in her pants. Then stop pretending to be her friend until you can actually be her friend, instead of someone who is pretending to be her friend to get laid. If you can't do that, than just do yourself a favor and forget about her.

MEAD

She's pretty much got all the perks of you being her boyfriend without any of the drawbacks. If she knows how to masturbate then she's basicly got no need to be in a realtionship with you at all. Your only chance is to stop doing so much for her, there is the possiblity that she will really miss it and want it back, but this time you've got control. You can set the terms on which she gets it back, no more free ride for her. And if she doesnt want it back, then fuck it, she was using you and she's a bitch for it.

__________________
Here are some phrases I'd like to be able to say, in all honesty, before I die.
"That's it, send out the ninjas!"
"So then I had to kill my way to the second floor."

crxforum

Guys like you who obviously do this "nice guy to get laid thing" make me sick. I learned a few years ago that being nice to someone when you are able to be nice is a good thing and that only good things can come out of it. Im not being nice to her because I want to get laid. Im past that whole I need to get laid stage and want something more out of a relationship. If I wanted to get laid I would of done it with any of the 4 girls who were all over me at this years new years party I was at. Even to the point where 2 of them asked me to drive them to their hotel and then when we got there asked me if I wanted to party in their room and I asked how many people were going to be there and they said only us I still declined.

Meaningless sex is the last thing I want right now. I want a relationship with someone who cares for me the way that I care about them. The problem in the past is that Ive been burned so many times by being nice. They only wanted to be with me because I would do things for them. Being a gentlemen makes me feel good when the other person appriciates it. Being burned because of it hurts a lot because you put time and effort into something hoping for a relationship and instead got screwed over.

I see this girl as someone that I can build a relationship on, but in the last few days Ive thought it over and even though my feelings for her have not changed I highly doubt that things will happen between us. It hurts me a lot to come to this conclusion because I care deeply about her. Ive decided that I should try and distance myself from her a bit. Not move away from her totally, I still value the relationship that we have as good friends and still want her in my life anyway that I can, but I think it would be best if I didnt talk to her everyday and start to look at other girls for a relationship.

Not being able to put my mind at rest when I think about her is hard. I cant keep doing this to myself. She has a lot on her plate with school, family, and just life in general and right now for me to tell her how I feel would not be fair to her and possibly me. If she does, or had feelings for me in the past but is overwhelmed with her daily life and doesnt think that she can handle a relationship with anyone at the moment that might distort her actual view on how she feels about me because she has other things on her mind.

She is very special to me and dear to my heart, but I cant keep putting myself in a hole when I think about her and what might and might not happen if I do disclose my feelings for her. So Ill give it a few weeks. Ill see if maybe I can find another girl who has the same characteristics as she does or similar since that is what Im looking for in a relationship. Maybe things will turn out for the best. But then again who knows. Im not going to get anywhere by doing nothing. If all else fails Ill tell her how I feel sometime in the next few weeks and see what she says. Hopefully she feels the same way, if not then I at least tried.

CRX Forum

dlish

MEAD speaks the truth. 110%. i couldnt have put it better myself.

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Sultana

Woah. You act like having a meaningful relationship is a *drawback*?. No *need* to be in a relationship with him? Sounds like you're casting this gal as a heartless machine, and you don't know her side of it *at all*.

Not saying that's not a possibility, anything's possible. But dang! There are so many other more likely things going on here.

__________________
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath.
At night, the ice weasels come." -

Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.

MEAD

Ah well yeah I was not being very positive on the subject. I'm not really jaded about realtionships either, its just easy to expect the worst when all you have heard about the girl is what this guys says is causing him pain. I'd like to make this guy happy for himself. I'd rather not tell him to hold on to her with the chance that it will bring him more and prolonged suffering. So I rather choose the route where he could garuntee himself happiness and perhaps incidentally get the girl.

__________________
Here are some phrases I'd like to be able to say, in all honesty, before I die.
"That's it, send out the ninjas!"
"So then I had to kill my way to the second floor."

filtherton

It takes one to know one, i guess.

Except when you complain about how people have taken advantage of your niceness.

Fair enough, though. Every where i mentioned sex or getting laid, replace it with something about wanting a romantic relationship. It still applies.

It seems to me like you've had a completely thorough discussion about your future with this lady completely in your head. Where does she come in? If you really cared about being her friend, you'd see what she thought about you wanting to be more than her friend, instead of deciding that its a lost cause without even mentioning it to her. Romantic relationships, especially long term ones, thrive on open, honest communication. If you can't even go out on a limb enough to tell her how you feel about her, what makes you think that you could even make a relationship work?

cellophanedeity

Holy crap... I had no idea that the guys in this forum were so brutal!

Tell your friend how you feel as honestly and as least pathetically as you can. Leave out the "love at first sight" and "you're the one" stuff, 'cause as a chick, that's not as much sweet as it is terrifying.

If she say's "you're just a friend" or something along those lines, let it be and get on with it. I know from experience that great friends can develop even after love interest has been destroyed if the people are honest and don't harbour feelings of resentment or even worse, keep up with the "I love you!" stuff.

Best of luck man, you'll need it.

skier

Wow, I totally disagree with this.

If you tell her how you feel right now, there will be an almost garaunteed rejection. You're her lap dog, she doesn't want or need you, and currently she's not attracted to you, or you'd be in an actual relationship by now.

Look, you have the comfort and security part of a relationship down solid. If you're dating a girl she'll know she's safe (bored) and comfortable (bored) with you. What you need to work on is attraction. Girls don't think with logic, they think with emotion. I've seen girls go through hell and back for "love". Those other comfort and security qualities come later after you've developed that attraction.

Basically what you've given her is... everything. She doesn't have to earn any of it. You've told her through your actions that you have very little value compared to her. I bet she sees you like a puppy wanting to please it's owner. It's not a quality that's attractive. Put yourself on equal or higher standing with her. When you buy her a gift, give her your undivided attention, laugh at her every joke even when it's not funny, roll over whenever she is angry, etc. you validate her, tell her she's better. You can't have a healthy relationship if you're the only one who compromises.

I believe if you want a chance with this girl, stop putting her on a pedestal. You're just as good a person as she is, deserve just as much love and affection.

If that's the kind of guy you are, how would you feel if she never allowed you to give her any of this sort of thing? That you got rejected every time you did something nice? What if she never even gave you the opportunity to do something nice? It feels good to give, but you need someone to take what's given freely. You've got to take a little too, if only to return the favor.

Because you aren't interested in "taking" and enjoy giving, she's just accepted it for what it is and lets you give her whatever you want. She has no reason to give in return. You have to start calling in some favors from her, return your relationship to an even playing field, stop acting like she's somehow unattainable, and believe in your own self worth. This isn't advice to get the girl, this is advice to improve your life. Respect yourself, man. You're every bit as good as the people around you.

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"Asking a bomb squad if an old bomb is still "real" is not the best thing to do if you want to save it." - denim

Impetuous1

You're screwed. I think she probably knows how you feel about her but didn't want to address it because she likes all the free services she's getting. BTW, I'm a woman and if I had a guy waiting on me hand and foot like that I think I'd probably lose respect for them because it would seem as if they had no life of their own. You are her lap dog. Stop waiting on her. See if she comes to you and reciprocates a little. Then, and only then, do you ask her out. You first need to see if she respects you since you basically have laid yourself at her feet. It also sounds like your obsessed with her. Are you sure the comment about her being your girlfriend was interest and not just digging the claws into you? An acknowledgement that she knows why you are hanging on her all the time and is taunting you about your inaction? Plus, if she really wanted you, I would think that she'd have said something by now. You say that you became her friend b/c you really wanted to be friends but in your original post you said, "The second I met her I felt feelings towards her." Admit it, you became her friend to get into her pants and the plan backfired.

BlackBandit23

I know I don't post much, but I read this post and that was 100% me. I did all I could for this girl I was interested in and always got fucked over. So what did I do? I turned my back on her and said fuck it. Well it took some time but in her words she said "I guess I didn't know what I had till I didn't have it"

And it does make sense. Why buy the cow if you get the milk for free.

Anyway good luck man

__________________
-As Bad As I Wanna Be.-

jth

Regardless of how you feel, which seems very honest, whomever this woman, conciously or not is using you. There's being a nice guy, and there's being over the top. You've come on way to strong I feel even before asking or expressing a desire to be in a relationship with her that is 'beyond friendship' that it's like a really bad bluf at a card table, she's got all the good cards and you're holding squat... because you've tipped your hand.

However, I sympathize with your situation. While I haven't been in love before I certainly can at least emote what you are going through, you've gone head over heals for a girl that may or may not feel the same way. She might care about you and she might even be interested in a relationship... however with everything that seems apparent in her life she might not be willing to make the effort on her part... continue to hold you in regard as a good friend who basically almost literally give her the shirt off his back.

I think what would be a good idea is to create distance between the two of you. Start simple by maybe hanging out with other friends. Perhaps the next time she contacts you requesting something menial then decline politely (eg - she needs a ride to work, tell her unfortunately you cannot do it, I can tell you probably wouldn't outright lie to her, but just refuse, in a nice way. She can walk or take a taxi. She needs to be distanced from you as much as you need to be from her for it to work.

She might not even realize how she is abusing you emotionally. I highly doubt it though. My experience with Women is that they are pretty much empathic and can smell it when a guy is near her who is interested, especially who is willing to do anything just to ge with her for a few hours in the evening, even at the supermarket etc. You give, she takes. It's hard to say the extent, because who knows if she is clearly manipulating you or simply taking advantage of a situation that benifits her significantly.... a nice young Man who obviously is dedicating to making her life better in whatever way possible.

Good luck I guess

pig

CRX:

1. i think that you really might want to turn to questions involving why you would put yourself in such an emotionally vulnerable position. it sounds to me like you need to man up a little bit. things like bringing her coffee on your break sound really sweet..but frankly, she can get her own coffee. i don't think you're likely to resolve this situation positively for yourself unless you focus on the issues inside your head first.

i think you theoretically could get resolution in this situation pretty quickly in a manner that would actually involve her as a part of the decision making process...but it sounds like you have a tendency to get a little romantically overengrossed in a chick before the relationship has developed that would naturally involve such attachment.

2. For future reference : you've left out some pretty important facts.

Does she give you the little touches? How about the lean in? If she's well endowed, does she ever accidentally run her breasts into you? How many times does she blink at you? Does she look at you a little too long sometimes? In a group, does she naturally make eye contact with you often, or not so much? These are things you need to know if you want to know if she digs you.

If she digs you, you can do the absolutely wrongest shit and she'll forgive you.

If she doesn't, you're fucked.

best of luck.

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Carno

Yep. That pretty much sums it up.

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Martian

Look, it's hard to say it, but she's already made her decision, one way or another. You have no control over that.

The best you can do is put it out there. If she turns you down, you walk away knowing you did your best.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

yosho

everyone has their own thoughts on what it means to be a girl's friend. While I do agree with ladder theory for the most part, I believe it is possible to change the situation.

The only requirement is that she needs to have feelings for u, maybe the feelings are pushed way back, but at some point in ur "friendship" with her, she will need to have some sort of emotional connection to you, however small it might be.

Ok with that said, you have to push her harder and make her want you more than just a friend. First, you have to take her off the pedistal. Stop thinking about how amazing she is, stop thinking that you can't get her, instead, concentrait on your own qualities and why she should work hard to get YOU. Why would a girl want a guy that nobody wants? A girl wants a guy that is desirable, and you have to make urself desireable to her.

How to do this:
Stop calling her and seeing her so much. Keep your life as busy as possible, no more running around doing errands for her, remember, u have a life now, u're too busy for that. Then, make friends with other girls, talk to as many girls as you can, ESPECIALLY infront of her. And if she asks you about it, just be like...oh yah they're just some girls I met one day blah blah, play it off as if it was no big deal.

Just remember, your main goal is to make urself desireable to her, and if she's ever had feelings for you, they'll come back out and she'll let you know it. I would let her do the work, let her make the first move, let her tell u how she feels, and if ur lucky, you'll get her.

But if she only truely thinks of you as a friend, then move on and learn from ur mistake, being friends with girls u like will only get u fucked in the end...and not by her.

kk just my two cents, good luck

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Toaster126

I came in here to say this, so I'll just leave you with it quoted. I'd like to stress that the problem isn't that you are being "nice", it is that you are giving and giving and giving without recipication.

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"The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand)
"The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)