Halx

Now, call me paranoid, call me jealous, but I think it's a little strange when I see women who are bi completely falling over eachother. "Oh you're into girls too? Ohh! You're so hot! Let's get together!" However, when it comes to men, it's the same old game of hellish courtship. No aggressiveness what so ever. Let the man make his move and turn him down accordingly. In fact, a few women I know are very picky about men, to the point where they will not sleep with them unless they are in a serious relationship with them, yet they would jump at a chance to bang another woman without attachment.

I know everyone's different, but I've recognized this trend in many women that I've observed. I just wish they would give into their inner animals and deal with everyone on the same level. Ok.. I just want a hot sexually uninhibited woman to throw herself at me.

Do you agree or disagree? I would like to hear some speculations as to why this is. I would like to hear from bi women on their feelings about this observation of mine.

I can only assume it's the culture. Women are generally very open with eachother, able to talk about personal things with eachother without being very attached. Meanwhile, men are expected to make the first move in all situations.

The double standard works against both sides.

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Astrocloud

I suspect it's very evolutional in nature. A sexual courtship with a man means a possible baby in nature. A sexual courtship with a woman means a helper with the kids when they come along. I read something along these lines in "Living with your Genes" and kinda adapted it to this situation.

But yeah, I've noticed it too.

liquidlight

You mentioned the fact that the women immediately have the emotional bond of being able to talk to each other and interact on that emtional level, to me that's where the difference lies.

"Women give sex to get love, men give love to get sex."

With other women they start with that emotional attachment inherently, or at least when I've observed this myself they assume that bond and the relationship moves from there. When interacting with men that bond isn't perceived for whatever reason and therefore all the automatic defensive systems that they've been perfecting for their entire lives kick in and force the courtship. A lot of them just view men as a potential threat which drives a wedge into the situation and is another quality that they don't see in other women.

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Charlatan

I know bi men that act the same way... they don't trust the women they sleep with either.

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MageB420666

I think it has to do with certain biological factors that allow bi women to be more sexually open with other women.
Example: Man + Woman = baby(sometimes)
Woman + Woman cannot equal baby. At least not without scientific interference.

When a bisexual woman hooks up with another woman, there is no little voice in the back of her head going "What if I get pregnant? What if the birth control fails/condom breaks?".

So that takes a huge load of enternal stress off of the woman.

Plus I think that women have been biologically and socially wired to associate a major commitment with having sex with a man.

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the_marq

Everything I know about bi-sexual women I learned from pr0n and 'The OC.' So I don't see anything odd going on at all.

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#3 in a series

snowy

I'm open to relationships with men and women. That said, I'm pretty sexually open with both sexes. I've fooled around with women shortly after meeting them and done the same with men.

I guess I just tend to be more sexually comfortable, though.

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la petite moi

I'd have to disagree with you on this one. I'm "bi-curious" I guess one could say, but just as I wouldn't just jump into a relationship with a man, I wouldn't plunge headfirst into a relationship with a woman.

Charlatan

I don't think he means relationship... I think he means one night stand.

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la petite moi

Okay, same thing. I wouldn't do it with a man on the first date, nor a woman.

ratbastid

I feel you on this one, Hal, I really, really do. Remember: I'm married to one of them. I keep having to deal with this thing where hot girls want my wife and don't want me.

The dynamics between men and women is just different. More "serious" or something.

DEI37

I know what you mean, ratbastid. I'm married to one as well. One interlude that we had, the woman was totally in to Heather, and vice versa. I did get to have sex with the other woman, but you could tell that she was in to it mainly to eat pussy. I don't notice that trend in general, though. Most of the bi women we meet have NO problem spreading their legs for either of us. It's great!

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bermuDa

from the way you describe it, sounds like these bisexual women treat women the way some straight men do...

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Poloboy

I think this illustrates Halx's point perfectly. You describe yourself merely as bicurious, as opposed to fully bisexual. Looking purely at the words, one would assume that you lean more towards men than women, yet you describe them as being rougly equal in appeal, even as someone who is only "bicurious." So, if you progress to fully bi, a romantic and/or sexual connection with a woman is easier than with a man?

la petite moi

I call myself bi-curious because I've never had _sex_ with a woman. I have had a semi-relationship with a girl online, and I was just as modest and wary as I would be with a man. A sexual or romantic connexion with a woman would have its difficulties just as one with a man. Perhaps different. But no, I don't think it would necessarily be easier.

lurkette

I'm full-on bi, no longer just 'curious', and I'm so not into one-night stands with either gender. Granted, I'm married, but given the opportunity with either gender I'd be just as likely to turn down a woman as a man. It's not about fertilization for me, it's about sex being tied to love and respect. Now, I'll flirt with women a lot more readily than I'll flirt with men because, for some reason, women don't take it seriously and don't expect anything to come of it.

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Squishor

Wow, that has not been my experience at all! I spent years trying to lure various women into bed, with very limited success. I even joined a "bisexual support group" but it was mostly a bunch of men sitting around planning trips to the bath houses in San Francisco.

I think part of the problem was me - where I might feel totally confident with men and just straight out ask if they wanted to fuck (if the mood struck me), I've been more shy with women, like I felt I had to live up to some kind of higher standard or something. And then, I could never tell if they were really interested. Partly I guess that's because I have a bad habit of getting crushes on my friends, so I'd already have some sort of friendship established, and then decide I wanted to go to bed with somebody (it didn't always happen like that though). So then, I'd be afraid to scare them away and I guess I wasn't up front enough about it. Although I did express a lot of interest - I don't know what it takes, really. I'd end up in this horrible state of agony around these women, constantly wondering,

What do I have to do to get her into bed?
Should I stand on my head?
Should I slide on a sled?
Do you like me in red?
Are we just friends instead?

Damn, at least men will let you know what they want! I've seen a lot of women who will joke around but when it comes to actually doing anything they freeze up and get seriously heterosexual. Like little icicles.

So then I decided I should just go straight for the lesbians except they were all wrapped up in their ex-girlfriends, and they always led me on and then got back together with their ex-girlfriends. There were several who did that. That left me wondering what was so bad about me that you'd dump me for the dyke from hell you just spent the last two months complaining about.

I would have done a lot to find these free and easy bi women you speak of. I would say I don't think they live in my town, except I live in the bi and lesbian capitol of the world.

Stompy

I think a lot of females are bi just for the attention factor as opposed to actually enjoying it or being into other females... especially the younger girls.

I'm sure guys would be the same way, though, so I'm not just picking on the fems If it was widely known that MOST, if not all, females are turned on by man on man action, there'd be a hell of a lot more "bi" men.

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tecoyah

As this is still (unfortunately) a male dominated world, there is a stigma attached to male on male attraction. In recent decades the same has been fading concerning women, as we males have decided this is attractive. This new found freedom for females has allowed for more expression of sexual innuendo, and become something of a curiousity, rather than a taboo to the male mind.
I am as guilty of this as any other male.
That said, My wife is also Bi, and recent events have allowed for exploration of this fascinating change in our culture. I have noticed a parallel between young males, and horny bi females......they want to get laid, alot.
I personally, fail to see the problem in this, as I was once very young, and rather enjoy bi females.....heh

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tisonlyi

Socially conditioned behaviour for the heterosexual element of the sexuality?

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snowy

I'm TOTALLY turned on by man on man action.

As for my own sexuality, I prefer to have no limits on it--I don't classify myself as bisexual or heterosexual. I honestly don't believe labeling my sexuality is going to help myself or others. Besides, you never know what's gonna come your way, be it male, female or something in between.

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martinguerre

Makes a whole lot of sense...

Thread Topic: from the folks i know, that's a pretty untrue generalization. We'll get a damn good laugh out out of it at bisexuality discussion group...

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la petite moi

BRAVO! I had the same attitude for the longest time (still pretty much do), but nwlinkvxd just HAD to label me. So I have resorted to calling myself bi.

KinkyKiwi

..okay i know i'll end up getting yelled at ...but whatever...

if i sleep with a guy i have to worry that i'll end up regretting it later...or i'll worry that i've been with too many or worry about men thinking i'm "easy"...i've had my most open guy friends tell me they wouldnt want to be with someone who has been with alot of guys but for whatever reason its just not the same with girls...

i've been with over 50 women and never once has a guy or a girl made me feel that its too many...i can be with a woman have the time of my life then get up thank her, kiss her and be on my merry way with out a regret in teh world. maybe its just me tho...

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WillyPete

Q: Do you Bi women feel that men get more posessive after sex than a woman would?
I was wondering if that would be quite a factor in this. Just making an assumption that it is the case and wanted to be set straight. (no pun intended)

Sweetpea

Society dictates from an early age that women and men are inherently different, that there is a power element that goes into interactions between men and woman and this is drilled into our minds, and while i don't nessasarily agree with this, i still recognize that i've been conditioned to think this way.

I know i personally view men very differently than i do women in almost all matters, which also applys to sexual matters.

And it's true, I've found that with women, i'm much more open and receptive, there is a sense of trust that builds much faster than with men, at least for me, there are no games that either side is playing and there seems to be alot more honesty .. . this sense of freedom does lend itself to sexual matters, as i'm much more likely to have sex with someone who i can be completely open with and who i feel is being genuine.

Do men only seek to Use woman?
Are woman more genuine than men?
Can you trust woman more than men?

you tell me, i haven't figured those answers out yet.

but the bottom line is:
yes, i'm a million times more likely to jump into bed with a woman than i am with a man and i'm not really sure why.

But i will have to disagree, i certainly do not expect men to make the first move in all situations and neither do most of the girls i know . . .
I'm used to making the first move with both men and woman, It seems archaic to have men always make the first move, plus it's more fun to give chase.

Sweetpea

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Gilda

I would never have jumped into bed on the first date with any man I ever dated.

I did exactly that with my first girlfriend, and did the same with Grace. If the circumstances were right, I'd probably do so with a certain lovely lady I've met online recently.

I've struggled with what label to use for myself. I've had sexual relationships with men, but was never satisfied with them. I'm currently in an long term relationship with another woman, but I wouldn't be entirely opposed to including a man in a threesome, as there is one element of a heterosexual relationship that I did enjoy and occasionally miss a bit, that being giving a man a bj. On the other hand, having a third woman involved would be even better.

Am I a bisexual more strongly oriented toward women, or a lesbian who might occasionally enjoy a nice bj? As I've never met a woman who identified herself as exclusively lesbian who would say the same, I'm going to have to go witht the first, though I might say differently tomorrow.

I think sexuality isn't a neat binary, or in this case, trinary segregation system. It's a continuum, and I'm on the border between bi and gay. I think women seem to be distributed a bit more flatly along the continuum than men, which is to say that men tend to be more likely to identify as exclusively straight or exclusively gay, with a small number in the middle and the nebulous areas inbetween. Women tend to have smaller clusters at the ends, and many more who are somewhere in the middle. Also, women's sexuality seems to be more fluid, more susceptible to change.

I also think it has as much to do with how society percieves men and women. It's much more acceptible for a woman to have masculine qualities than for a man to have feminine qualities. Like it or not, being sexually attracted to men is considered a feminine quality in our society by most, and vice versa. It isn't acceptible for a man to say he likes women, but finds the idea of sex with a man intriguing, and would like to try it sometime to see what it's like, but most people find a woman saying the same perfectly acceptible and normal.

On the other hand, even within the gay community, you'll find a lot of people taking on the same traditional roles. Go into a lesbian bar and you'll find a range of presentation styles from femmes to bull dykes who go out of their way to adopt a hypermasculine persona, with most being somewhere in the middle. It's eerily like a hetero bar in the way the traditional roles are reinforced. A butch or bull will always make the first move on a femme, and it's generally considered bad form for the femme to approach a butch. Being passive is part of the femme role; being aggressive is part of the butch role. (not that it's relevant, but Grace and I are "lipstick lesbians"--femmes attracted to other femmes)

What's the point there? If we apply this to bisexual women, we can that they approach men from the female role--defined in our society as passive--but feel more free to approach women from a masculine perspective. Which is to say, a bisexual woman may feel free to take on the masculine, assertive role in a relationship with another woman that she didn't feel comfortable doing with a man. She's not only shifting sexual roles, she's shifting social roles as well.

Having said that, my case works backwards from what I just

In addition, I think part of it stems from how men and women relate to each other in non-sexual ways. Growing up, I was always more open and free with my sisters than my brothers. I've always felt closer to my female freinds than my male friends. I've always felt more emotional intimacy with my female casual freinds than with the boys I would date. The emotional intimacy comes easier with women than with men.

Many women link emotional intimacy with sex. We don't want the former without the latter, or at least the strong promise of an emotional bond to come. Many of us have also found that a strong emotional bond comes easier with women. When you combine those two elements, it could make for an easier, quicker route to the sack for many bisexual women than for men.

If there's an element that separates lesbians from bisexual women, I think this may be it, or at least one of them. My experience has been that women who identify themselves as exclusively lesbian are more reluctant to have a one night stand without that emotional connection already in place, while the bisexual women are more likely to be a little more free with their sexuality.

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Squishor

I'm following this discussion with a good bit of interest (because of the frustrating experiences described above) but I can't quite seem to find where I fit in this picture. Except maybe as just a particularly unlucky person, in this area anyway. I definitely agree that most women fall into the grey area somewhere along the continuum between the two poles. I personally could never imagine excluding half the human race as potential sexual partners based on gender alone. Everything Gilda said above makes sense to me, except not when I try to fit it in with my own personal experiences. Maybe it's just that I've got my gender roles flip-flopped - I'm more willing to make the first move with men, although I think that makes perfect sense because there's less chance of rejection there. I'm definitely more intimidated at the thought of trying to seduce a woman, although I am not one of those women who doesn't relate to women well - quite the opposite. The longer I think about it the less clear-cut it seems, especially when I start to consider my taste in men (prefer somewhat androgynous, although I appreciate some "masculine" traits) and in women (attracted to both "butch" and "femme" types). People are complicated, that's all I can say.

tecoyah

This statement seems to ring very true from my experience......not that I have the insight needed to form a qualified opinion here. Harpie seems to develop emotional bonding relatively easily with females, and has no interest in males (other than myself ,thank the Gods). The sexual aspect of these bonds is somewhat irrelevant it would seem , as it is more of a friendship that has possibilities, rather than a permanent companion depended on for life lessons.
On a less serious note, after reading this thread, One can only hope that the beautiful women posting to this thread remain interested in at least some men.....as my ears would bleed at the collective weeping of us all....should it be different.

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Janey

ask me ask me ask me!


i know it's hard but in a forum like this it becomes easier (my experience)

KinkyKiwi

totally...it seems that guys want to be the only ones that are there,..that have been there, that will be there..

it seems that even with a quick sexual thing guys want you to be hung up over them and that yoru supposed to somehow be theirs...

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Squishor

Ask you how to get women into bed?

Ask you into my bed?

Are you saying internet forums are the way to find those mythical willing women?

I'm in a committed relationship right now, which is why I phrased my entire post in the past tense...

As for men being more possessive, I don't do this anymore but when I used to fuck around with various people I'd usually have a hard time when I wanted to walk away, and I often had to put up with some scene like guys shouting "You're a real heartbreaker!" at me on the street. The last guy I dated before my current boyfriend wanted me to move to Colorado with him before we'd even had sex at all. Boy was I glad I took it a little slower when I realized he had nothing to say that interested me! All I could think of was that if I had gone to bed with him, just think how much harder it would have been to break the tentacles he was already wrapping around me.

This whole conversation kind of undermines the myth that men want no-strings sex and women want committment, doesn't it.

thed00t

It's quite simple. When a two bi girls hook up, it's usually about sex. Not looking for a relationship. Hi, screw, bye.

I bet if an attractive (to her) guy was to approach the same girl who did what you described, and expressed the want for fuck buddies she'd go for it.

But that's not the norm for guys, we're trained to do the relationship thing first. Rightly so for most women, most women wouldn't go for the forward fuck buddy approach. But the more sexually open girls, bi girls for example, would go for it.

Another dynamic to consider is that I think women trust eachother more. With a guy a girl jumps in to bed with on the first date, she doesn't know much about him. He might be a pyscho who will rape her if she says stop or whatever.

With a girl, there is not a sense of overpowerment or a reason to get to know her as much first. Less bad things are prone to happen.

My couple o shillings.

Ovenall

my wife is bi. loves girls more, but loves me the most. I'm so lucky.

K-Wise

Okay let me be the first to chime in on that statement in defense of men. I give my love out long before there is even talk of sex. The sex wouldn't make me love them anymore either. It'd just make me very happy. I give love all the time with no agenda at all. Only a hope that I'd at least get a kiss only to have that love tossed back at me for some other jerk who does just want the sex.

I'd think well maybe the girls just want the sex too with no strings attached but nope...lots of the ones I've known actually fall for these assholes and they treat them like shit. I mean what do you want?

I've heard it argued that women treat other women better but there's plenty a ufckin guys out there who'll treat you good and you spit in their faces. Then complain when you can't find a good man.

Good man right here...Or at least I think I can be a good man haven't really gotten the chance yet. Gimme a call!

Asta!!

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MSD

While we're at it, all men are pigs, and all women suck at driving. Sure, there are plenty of people who reinforce the stereotype, but it's not true for most. It's pissed me off for years that so many people go through life like it's a big war between men and women. I can't comprehend why so many people are willing to slip into stereotypical roles and stay there instead of trying to be individuals.

raeanna74

Same here I feel more tentative with around another woman until I get to know her a little bit better sexually. I don't take charge right away unless she gives me control in a sense. It's not that I don't want it but I'm more shy about it to begin with. Get me started though and WHOH.

Gilda made some interesting comments that make good sense to me too.

I am bi-sexual. I would not have said that 5 years ago. I would have acted like I was gagging if you had asked me if I was. I simply never entertained the concept. Now looking back I felt sexually comfortable with other women. There are some women that another woman can simply feel comfortable talking about sexual subjects with. Women love to dish but there are certain ones who make it even more fun. I had some girlfriends that I loved to get physical with - touchyfeely, snuggling under the covers and things. I abhord the idea of it being sexual and yet there were only certain ones that I wanted to do that with. The reasons weren't a matter of feeling closer or being more emotionally attached either. Now looking back it was more of a sexual attraction. I had been taught that it was biologically impossible to be attracted to someone of the same sex so I ignored it as such. Now - I find it interesting that I felt that way.

Hubby and I swing - I have a strong emotional attachment with my husband and I wouldn't be swinging without that attachment to him. I wouldn't be having sex with other people without first developing some sort of attachment to them if I didn't have that primary emotional attachment.

For me to allow another woman into my circle with my husband and myself I have to know that either 1. She's attached to another man. OR 2. She's emotionally attached to me AND my husband.

We have not gone farther than that and I don't know yet how I'd respond to some woman out of a bar, all alone, with no emotional attachments to anyone that I know of. I think I'd be especially suspicious and leary of her. That's just me but that's how my bi-sexual mind works.

I didn't address many specific questions here because my situation is somewhat different than the hypothetical one being examined. I hope I was able to give SOME insight at least.

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asudevil83

i've got a friend who's bi.....and i must say that she does the same exact thing. right now, she's much more into chicks, and she'll hit on ANY hot chick that she even suspects of being bi. she'll hardcore flirt until she's either rejected or hooks up with her. i'd like to say she puts on the persona of the typical "horny guy". but when it comes to guys, she plays the same exact fucking games that any other chick would do.

thalakos315

i believe that its all about control. traditionally its the man who is in control(asking a girl out, taking her out, etc) while the woman is tradionally expected to wait for the man to perform this role.

in a bisexual setting, i think that there is a sense of equallity. they are both on the same playing field so to speak. nobody has this tradional sense of "control" so they are likely to be more free and open with their sexuality. i think theres a certain degree of subconscious intimidation with dealing with a man, that isn't there when dealing with another woman.

this makes sense to me, because you don't often see this type of behavior between bisexual men, they are both expected to be the ones in control, so while they are on equal footing, there is some confusion as to who is suppost to be doing what.

i think this changes when dealing with a situation like gilda described in the gay community. when they assign themselves traditional roles, they are in a sense assigning who has the control. which i think is why you won't see a fem approach a butch.

people don't respond well to force, especially when their sexuality is involved. just by being male, your implying force. which can hold up the process.. between two women, neither one is seen as the one with control, so neither one has any force, which allows things to progress much smoother.

in the case of a hetro woman, approaching a hetro male. the sense of control, beyond the initial approach, still lies with the man. beyond the initial approach, neither of their roles change. the man still takes the lady out, i've never seen a case of the woman picking the man up, deciding on a restraunt, and paying for dinner, these are traditionally the man's duties. so essentially, control doesn't change.

this is only what makes sense to me, i'm certainly not qualified to say that this is in any degree correct. this is only what i believe most likely to be the case... so don't shoot me :P

smooth

this is how my wife sees it, too.

but, I also disagree with part of Halx's premise. I think that often women flirt/more with other women, not necessarily because they are bi, but because it's in fashion and/or turns men on. I'm NOT saying that bi women do this as normal, but that some may be doing this and often women we might think are bi (because many men want to believe the two women they are looking at are about to get it on, and some intentionally lead us to believe this) but are really straight having fun.

and so we could combine the notion that bi women on women are more socially acceptable than other forms of homosexuality; and that this combines with popular notions of beauty to further reduce the stigma of homosexual exhibitions in public among hotties; and that for the most part, women don't really have good social training on how to pursue the other (man or woman) and that they might be more open to gettin it on when they finally find "another."


all that said, I've met a number of bi women who think/act "like men"
and also a number of bi women who think/act "like women"

what you're talking about doen't apply equally to both types.

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